While it is true that college kids who pirate are likely to "learn" it as acceptable behaviour, the majority of kids coming out of college are never going to be making the software decisions for their company, and secondly, companies have a LOT to lose for pirating software - even if the employees *want* to pirate, the SPA has (as it should) very effective and intimidating ways of encouraging compliance.
This is one possible scenario, but I disagree with "the majority" assumption. That may become true when small businesses (the vast majority of businesses) are all switched over to NT and their users don't have admin installation privileges, but until that point, you're going to have users downloading Winzip, Photoshop, etc. on a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
This is relevant to the second point because often small businesses feel they are small enough to go unnoticed. This is dumb of course because all it takes is one disgruntled employee to land you in a dozen lawsuits, but that is the understood mindset from within.
This is my experience and I'm generalizing based on experience, of course.
2.1 You will use the Site and any content, material, or information found on the Site solely for lawful, non-commercial purposes.
3.2 You will not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part, found on the Site. You will download copyrighted content solely for your personal use, but will make no other use of the content without the express written permission of Lexico and the copyright owner.
He used the content for a lawful, non-commercial purpose. Hopefully, Jon Katz won't try to republish his comment! But seriously, since it was for his "personal use" for a "lawful, non-commercial purpose", Dictionary.com wouldn't have a leg to stand on. It'd be no different than writing a paper for class with that definition in it. He properly attributed it---he's in the clear.
Psychologically, they don't want to encourage it because warezers in college can/will become warezers in the workplace. They'll think, "we didn't buy this shit in college, why should I buy it now, increasing our product development costs?" I've witnessed this firsthand as an employee at a few places.
Worse, this attitude is bad for encouraging businesses to use Open Source (at least in the short term). Your boss thinks, "well, we can install this burned copy of Office which we all know how to use; or, we can legitimately use this other software but it might be crap, has to undergo testing, may not support all our needs, etc." Which do you think she's going to choose? You guessed it: the burned copy of Office.
But seriously, the problem is that prices almost never go down. Demand for games has gone up since ten years ago and companies know they can charge more for it.
Until you have total market saturation, prices will continue at their current level. People are used to buying games at these prices and in general, don't feel they're being screwed enough to refuse to buy. It's not a situation like with your local gasoline retailer where they know your cheap ass is gonna go next door to save 5 cents a gallon.
In theory, market saturation in the gaming market won't occur because the new machines and games are so much better than the old ones buyers just have to have the latest machines and releases. While this seems intuitive for the short term and for specific core segments, I have doubts about the long term exponential growth of the gaming market for obvious reasons.
Yes, native Americans: people born here and not having gone through the official naturalization process.
If by "native American" you are harping on about the philosophically suspect claim that the ancient mongoloid and negroid populations are the only true natives of the Americas, then you should realize that most of the nations of these peoples recognize membership with even as little as 1/32 blood relation. The chances are pretty high that several US Congresscritters have at least this percentage of blood relation to one of these nations.
I always thought that the gravity on Mars was low enought that the atmosphere just leaked away. So the erosion of the Ice Caps might not do enough to do the job.
See, that's my intuition as well. I wonder if there has been some obscure work done in this area explaining why this did not happen. Anyhow, here's a cool paper I dug up with a google search.
I'm familiar with the 6 month release cycle, actually, I was just wondering if packages were available only for the 6 month release and security updates or also for the interim, in-progress distribution. Is this what you mean by
"There is a single ports tree, and I've always assumed that STABLE and CURRENT have the same packages. So running STABLE gets you to about the same as the unstable branch of debian."?
What prompted my original response was a friend of mine's comment that he'd just switched from FreeBSD to Debian cause he got tired of compiling everything. I should've said that. Heh, maybe he didn't know work-in-progress packages were available?
Actually, though, I enjoy the occasional disasters, versions of Evolution that can't compose mail, etc. For example, the PAM guy released a package that wouldn't let you log in multi-user.:-) But it doesn't happen all that often and I enjoy being part of the process (reporting bugs, etc.). I don't sit on debian-devel, but I know they're working on a testing framework to eliminate stupid bugs like the PAM bug for unstable packages. The testing distribution's tests already exist so that doesn't happen there.
From what I gather, the BSD people have simply had more background on the testing, regression, etc. stuff than Debian folks did. But they're getting there... which brings us back to what's great about free software: cross-pollination of ideas and code. Journaling inspired soft-updates. Soft-updates inspired the TUX2 Phase tree algorithm. and so on. Package management and ports cross-pollinate, etc.
I'm getting boring, but feel free to drop a mail if you like. I'm not sure how many comments are left before this story rolls over.
Well... don't forget about the loud Russian module. You can't get much science done, or at least very well, if you can't hear yourself think.
I'm not saying either program is fundamentally better, merely that they each have their strengths and weaknesses. And yes, the Russian space program is all about flying coach, without which, I'll never get to see the blue earth below me.
Simply put, the various mathematical and logical languages attempt to model phenomena in the universe. Even as English and other spoken languages break down, so do logic and mathematics. Unless you're a hardcore logical positivist True Believer, you have to accept that certain languages are better at certain tasks than others.
At present, at least, there is no Super Language that models all phenomena. Corellarily, languages lose some data in filtering to their types. Since some data is lost, you can't model everything. I agree that our languages are built from the universe, but I do not agree that this makes them infallible. In fact, their infallibility is what makes them so goddamn useful. The ability to filter out information useless to a system is fundamental to the heuristics of any language. However, this filtration also disables a would-be Super Language.
If you will notice, my previous comment is not in response to you, but rather Zach.
My main complaint about ports is compilation time. Like I said, with apt it's easy enough to compile the few packages that I might want to compile and install, etc. so it's a better solution for me. There has been some discussion on debianplanet about making "compile everything" ala ports work easily. It's doable Right Now[tm], but you gotta write a script.
Eh, the main reasons Debian would not work on this system are dependencies, upgrading, etc. I mean, you don't really want separate.exe self-installers for each package, correct? Have each application's installer manage uninstall dependencies, etc.?
No, the "Package" philosophy is an installed application [or group of apps] that manages all issues surrounding installation of packages. On this philosophy, integration with Add/Remove would entail a shell-builtin to launch the Debian package manager if you clicked on a listed installed application to be removed. Hell, I bet you could make a shell builtin to have "Debian package" listed for one of the Add sources, but don't quote me on that.
But, the Nullsoft or similar code would be a good place to look for ideas for a Windowsy front-end for apt and friends. Handling of registry entries and whatnot.
OH YEAH! I want to spend XXX hours waiting for all the upgraded versions of BSD to compile on my box! No thanks, just give me the binaries for anything that doesn't need optimization. If I need to compile, I'll use the apt-get command to dl'd source and autocompile with appropriate gcc opts.
That said, I think the open packages project is a good idea for sharing ports between the sister BSDs. Still, I'd probably never upgrade NetBSD on this 7100/80 because I'd grow old waiting for it to finish. On Debian, I have around 7000 packages or so at my disposal with only download and install time.
Wouldn't it have been easier to zip the files and create a GUI installer using one of the various tools available for doing just that?
Open Source GUI installers such as... ? I've heard some good reviews of the installer GNUe uses called "Inno setup", but deb packaging is probably superior and less time-consuming for these kinds of tools. I think integration with the Add/Remove control panel would be absolutly killer though. the latest versions of apt-get work with rpm, too, so don't think RPM vs DEB crap.
Where in my post did I say "Linux has this right now, go and download it you BSD whore"? Did I not take care to mention that I hoped this would happen in 2.5?
^chuck^ writes:
all journaling really seems to do is attempt to fix the problems ext2fs has by laying another piece of code on top of it, instead of fixing the primary problem, that is that ext2 is broken as far as the BSD hackers are concerned.
The point of my post was to respond that problems with ext2 have been understood and taken into account and are not being ignored. Duh.
Slashdot Mirror
Citations are not illicit publishing. You cannot argue that they are in any US court.
End of story.
-l
While it is true that college kids who pirate are likely to "learn" it as acceptable behaviour, the majority of kids coming out of college are never going to be making the software decisions for their company, and secondly, companies have a LOT to lose for pirating software - even if the employees *want* to pirate, the SPA has (as it should) very effective and intimidating ways of encouraging compliance.
This is one possible scenario, but I disagree with "the majority" assumption. That may become true when small businesses (the vast majority of businesses) are all switched over to NT and their users don't have admin installation privileges, but until that point, you're going to have users downloading Winzip, Photoshop, etc. on a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
This is relevant to the second point because often small businesses feel they are small enough to go unnoticed. This is dumb of course because all it takes is one disgruntled employee to land you in a dozen lawsuits, but that is the understood mindset from within.
This is my experience and I'm generalizing based on experience, of course.
-l
2.1 You will use the Site and any content, material, or information found on the Site solely for lawful, non-commercial purposes.
3.2 You will not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part, found on the Site. You will download copyrighted content solely for your personal use, but will make no other use of the content without the express written permission of Lexico and the copyright owner.
He used the content for a lawful, non-commercial purpose. Hopefully, Jon Katz won't try to republish his comment! But seriously, since it was for his "personal use" for a "lawful, non-commercial purpose", Dictionary.com wouldn't have a leg to stand on. It'd be no different than writing a paper for class with that definition in it. He properly attributed it---he's in the clear.
-l
Psychologically, they don't want to encourage it because warezers in college can/will become warezers in the workplace. They'll think, "we didn't buy this shit in college, why should I buy it now, increasing our product development costs?" I've witnessed this firsthand as an employee at a few places.
Worse, this attitude is bad for encouraging businesses to use Open Source (at least in the short term). Your boss thinks, "well, we can install this burned copy of Office which we all know how to use; or, we can legitimately use this other software but it might be crap, has to undergo testing, may not support all our needs, etc." Which do you think she's going to choose? You guessed it: the burned copy of Office.
-l
Congratulations! You've discovered inflation!
But seriously, the problem is that prices almost never go down. Demand for games has gone up since ten years ago and companies know they can charge more for it.
Until you have total market saturation, prices will continue at their current level. People are used to buying games at these prices and in general, don't feel they're being screwed enough to refuse to buy. It's not a situation like with your local gasoline retailer where they know your cheap ass is gonna go next door to save 5 cents a gallon.
In theory, market saturation in the gaming market won't occur because the new machines and games are so much better than the old ones buyers just have to have the latest machines and releases. While this seems intuitive for the short term and for specific core segments, I have doubts about the long term exponential growth of the gaming market for obvious reasons.
$0.02,
-l
Yes, native Americans: people born here and not having gone through the official naturalization process.
If by "native American" you are harping on about the philosophically suspect claim that the ancient mongoloid and negroid populations are the only true natives of the Americas, then you should realize that most of the nations of these peoples recognize membership with even as little as 1/32 blood relation. The chances are pretty high that several US Congresscritters have at least this percentage of blood relation to one of these nations.
-l
Alan supports its inclusion in 2.5.
http://lwn.net/2001/1206/kernel.php3
-l
Apparently, the ALSA folks never sent a patch to Linus. This is probably because they didn't feel it was ready yet.
http://lwn.net/2001/1206/kernel.php3
-l
I always thought that the gravity on Mars was low enought that the atmosphere just leaked away. So the erosion of the Ice Caps might not do enough to do the job.
See, that's my intuition as well. I wonder if there has been some obscure work done in this area explaining why this did not happen. Anyhow, here's a cool paper I dug up with a google search.
http://www.sfwa.org/members/Nordley/Gravity.pdf
-l
I'm familiar with the 6 month release cycle, actually, I was just wondering if packages were available only for the 6 month release and security updates or also for the interim, in-progress distribution. Is this what you mean by "There is a single ports tree, and I've always assumed that STABLE and CURRENT have the same packages. So running STABLE gets you to about the same as the unstable branch of debian."?
What prompted my original response was a friend of mine's comment that he'd just switched from FreeBSD to Debian cause he got tired of compiling everything. I should've said that. Heh, maybe he didn't know work-in-progress packages were available?
Actually, though, I enjoy the occasional disasters, versions of Evolution that can't compose mail, etc. For example, the PAM guy released a package that wouldn't let you log in multi-user. :-) But it doesn't happen all that often and I enjoy being part of the process (reporting bugs, etc.). I don't sit on debian-devel, but I know they're working on a testing framework to eliminate stupid bugs like the PAM bug for unstable packages. The testing distribution's tests already exist so that doesn't happen there.
From what I gather, the BSD people have simply had more background on the testing, regression, etc. stuff than Debian folks did. But they're getting there... which brings us back to what's great about free software: cross-pollination of ideas and code. Journaling inspired soft-updates. Soft-updates inspired the TUX2 Phase tree algorithm. and so on. Package management and ports cross-pollinate, etc.
I'm getting boring, but feel free to drop a mail if you like. I'm not sure how many comments are left before this story rolls over.
-l
Well... don't forget about the loud Russian module. You can't get much science done, or at least very well, if you can't hear yourself think.
I'm not saying either program is fundamentally better, merely that they each have their strengths and weaknesses. And yes, the Russian space program is all about flying coach, without which, I'll never get to see the blue earth below me.
Cheers,
-l
Simply put, the various mathematical and logical languages attempt to model phenomena in the universe. Even as English and other spoken languages break down, so do logic and mathematics. Unless you're a hardcore logical positivist True Believer, you have to accept that certain languages are better at certain tasks than others.
At present, at least, there is no Super Language that models all phenomena. Corellarily, languages lose some data in filtering to their types. Since some data is lost, you can't model everything. I agree that our languages are built from the universe, but I do not agree that this makes them infallible. In fact, their infallibility is what makes them so goddamn useful. The ability to filter out information useless to a system is fundamental to the heuristics of any language. However, this filtration also disables a would-be Super Language.
Cheers,
-l
Are the fetchable packages only available for stable releases? I run unstable and update every couple of days.
-l
If you will notice, my previous comment is not in response to you, but rather Zach.
e .p hp?sid=521
My main complaint about ports is compilation time. Like I said, with apt it's easy enough to compile the few packages that I might want to compile and install, etc. so it's a better solution for me. There has been some discussion on debianplanet about making "compile everything" ala ports work easily. It's doable Right Now[tm], but you gotta write a script.
http://www.debianplanet.org/debianplanet/articl
-l
sigh all you want, you've not addressed the compilation problem.
-l
Eh, the main reasons Debian would not work on this system are dependencies, upgrading, etc. I mean, you don't really want separate .exe self-installers for each package, correct? Have each application's installer manage uninstall dependencies, etc.?
No, the "Package" philosophy is an installed application [or group of apps] that manages all issues surrounding installation of packages. On this philosophy, integration with Add/Remove would entail a shell-builtin to launch the Debian package manager if you clicked on a listed installed application to be removed. Hell, I bet you could make a shell builtin to have "Debian package" listed for one of the Add sources, but don't quote me on that.
But, the Nullsoft or similar code would be a good place to look for ideas for a Windowsy front-end for apt and friends. Handling of registry entries and whatnot.
Cheers,
-l
OH YEAH! I want to spend XXX hours waiting for all the upgraded versions of BSD to compile on my box! No thanks, just give me the binaries for anything that doesn't need optimization. If I need to compile, I'll use the apt-get command to dl'd source and autocompile with appropriate gcc opts.
That said, I think the open packages project is a good idea for sharing ports between the sister BSDs. Still, I'd probably never upgrade NetBSD on this 7100/80 because I'd grow old waiting for it to finish. On Debian, I have around 7000 packages or so at my disposal with only download and install time.
Have fun with your fast boxen.
-l
Wouldn't it have been easier to zip the files and create a GUI installer using one of the various tools available for doing just that?
Open Source GUI installers such as... ? I've heard some good reviews of the installer GNUe uses called "Inno setup", but deb packaging is probably superior and less time-consuming for these kinds of tools. I think integration with the Add/Remove control panel would be absolutly killer though. the latest versions of apt-get work with rpm, too, so don't think RPM vs DEB crap.
-l
Wow, what a persistent troll.
-l
Where in my post did I say "Linux has this right now, go and download it you BSD whore"? Did I not take care to mention that I hoped this would happen in 2.5?
^chuck^ writes:
all journaling really seems to do is attempt to fix the problems ext2fs has by laying another piece of code on top of it, instead of fixing the primary problem, that is that ext2 is broken as far as the BSD hackers are concerned.
The point of my post was to respond that problems with ext2 have been understood and taken into account and are not being ignored. Duh.
-l
British Telecom?
-l
see my top-level post with some links to Linux hacker commentary:6 32 739
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=24290&cid=2
-l
TUX2 Phase Tree: Better than Soft Updates
As Levar Burton says in Reading Rainbow, "but don't take my word for it."
-l
The expert opinion: http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20000814_80.ht ml#1
I've been excited about the TUX2 filesystem ever since I heard of this. I hope this is the default for 2.5 - 2.6 barring some unforeseen problem.
-l
hahaha yeah, it was still solid back then!
-l