Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1
By the way, anonymous cowards have no street cred. Take your.NET and go back to the community college you came from.:)
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 0
You imply that.NET is not compatible with Firefox. Totally wrong.
Actually, it is your assumption that I was talking about.NET as an entirety that is false.
ASP.NET is a combination of VBscript and C#. VBscript does not work with anything besides IE (unless it is server side thus making VBscript pointless). Also, in order to do alot of stuff in ASP.NET, it often trys to get you to use those two. It has gotten so bad that now Microsoft has stated that the next version of IE will dump VBscript and ActiveX support..NET can work if it is server side... it';s just that when they try to do stuff client side, they deviate from standards and as such, break in anything but IE. It is their lack of sticking to standards and supporting standards that cause ASP.NET to break.,i.And by the way, it helps to talk about specifics. Saying "it's the whole thing that makes it unscalable" is completely vague and makes you sound ignorant
Ok junior, how about the fact that it forces a million other apops to boot that I won't use when I start up my server. How about that it forces the GUI down your throat and even when you are working in a command line, that GUI environment still has reserved resources. How about the fact that IIS has on average an uptime of about 1/10th that of Apache machines. How about the fact that.NET programs require twice the amount of lines of code as their competitors (with the exception of maybe JAVA). How about the memory leaks, the multiple thread failures, etc etc. The security flaws, the resource hogging, the lack of ability to modify the machine for the task at hand (ie config files).
The list goes on and on and if you were a real engineer, you would be aware of half these these so that statements that seem ignorant would not show off your ignorance instead.
I guess this is why it's so hard to believe anything that they say and why it's so easy to believe anyone that says something different than Microsoft; they have established that anything they say will be slanted in their favor no matter how absurd that when someone says Steve Ballmer threw a chair and he counters with 'no I didn't', who do you think everyone believed?
Their spin now works against them as they have been labeled as uncredible. No matter WHO says it. So much so that companies they HIRE to spin for them now get labelled as uncredible if they are even KNOWN to be financed or have a relationship with Microsoft.
Regardless of whether it is true or not, thats the way the industry (and now the press) view it.
They have established themselves as a company of spin doctors and now anything stated by them is taken with a couple boxcars full of salt.
Actually, more people come to Slashdot to read about distro releases and open source news than windows releases. Keep in mind the target audience and who reads Slashdot. They aren't really hitting their demographic with a story about a Windows exec; it would be better served with an engineer talking about the different aspects and approaches. That I would want to read.
Maybe Slashdot should have a section called 'exec brag' where the heads of Sun and IBM and Microsoft call all bullshit and spin while we are left with the engineering reports. But the sad fact is that in alot of these cases, it is hard to derive spin from fact and it is up the the viewer to discern based on past company discrepancies and trends.
Hence, Microsoft exec = spin. Even if it came from an engineer as Microsoft, my 'spin detector' would probably be going off the charts; they have about as good a record with the truth as George Bush.
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1
If my code runs on 90% of the computers in the world that is enough for me. Lately I program asp.net/c# apps for a web development company
So your code runs on approximately 50-80% of all peoples computers (considering that Firefox now accounts for anywhere from 20-50 percent market share) as only IE supports VB script and activeX controls. Thats a winning combo for the company you are working for. I know I'd love to have that number of potential customers not be able to see my site.
And no, I would not put Windows lack of ability to scale on any ONE SINGULAR aspect. It's the whole that makes it unscaleable. And.NET is only a part of that whole. But I should remind you, VISTA was supposed to be written in.NET... wonder why they abandoned it? Hmmm?
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1
Go to a good school with a decent tech program. I live here in Seattle/Redmond and I know how hard it can be to get into a school that teaches anything but.NET. But I taught myself and as a result of all these people moving and converting to Linux to save on monthly and yearly costs, I really only compete with one or two other developers at each job interview.
Back in 95 when I was at Amazon, I couldn't find ANY schools that taught just a basic PERL class so I grabbed a book and started learning it myself.
If you think this is the future of computing, don't let the fact that school boards haven't adapted yet stop you. Hell, I ran across a girl who is taking a web development course and all they are teaching is the same thing you are talking about and they not once talked about Apache EVEN THOUGH APACHE IS 70% OF THE MARKET!!
Schools teach what local tech companies on their board tell them to teach. If they are a school in an area with alot of Microsoft based companies, you will get the school teaching only Microsoft skills... even if businesses outside that 25 mile circumference use an entirely different set of skills!!
It's up to you to educate yourself. And since all the applications and tools are free, the only thing stopping you is individual motivation.
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
And do you know why all.NET people can find work so easily? Because it takes 2-4 times that many to match the skillset of one good LINUX developer.
Thus you are going to have 5 job openings in comparison to every 1 good open source job.:)
I built a LAMP architecture for a Microsoft vendor and when they got pressured to convert by MS, I told them it would take 2-3 developer to do what I did, that they would have to start paying through the nose for all the additional applications and software that is free in a LAMP architecture and that it would take them 6 months to a year before they were able to start working on anything new after converting the code base.
3 months after I left, The head of marketing and HR called me and told me that was precisely what happened and that they finally just outsourced it to an agency and that they weren't going to convert the architecture afterall because they realize after the fact just how right I was.
So good luck with that $35K a year job and your new Honda. The rest of us engineers will be changing the world rather than trying to convert it.
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1
If your most important requirement for any programming language is the ability to port your programs to other OSs you are really missing the point of software development. Its all about making cool software. The OS is just a tool. Source code is your canvas, and.Net is nothing more than a set of really nice paint brushes.
LOL ok what community college art program pumped you out? For engineers, portability is always an issue just as scalability is as well. If the platform you are on won't scale anymore or yoiu don't have money to throw 5 machines at a problem that may only take only Linux box, you are looking at not only a scalability decision but a portability issue if you chose a language that doesn't port.
Any beginning computer engineering course will tell you this.
Re:I don't want to be stuck with one..
on
Pro C#
·
· Score: 1, Informative
I know what you mean. My PHP,PERL and JAVA code will work with Apache and IIS and on Linux or Mac or Windows..NET, VB and C# are just an attempt by Microsoft to force developers onto one OS and to develop for one OS. If they were smart, they'd be promoting the HELL out of MONO and working with them to make it better.
Point taken. Open source is the movement and Linux is just an ASPECT of open source and not to be confused with the movement as a whole.
And my point isn't to say NOT to cover Windows news... but this isn't really news is it? It's just some exec saying 'look at me! look at me!' and throwing chairs around.
And who would this multimillion dollar corporation paying for PR, marketing and press coverage be that you claim is behind this spin for Linux, hmm?
Linux's publicity is due to a social movement... not a billion dollar marketing buzz. Slashdot covers it because to not cover a movement that affects the entire industry would be assinine. Covering a Microsoft executive talking about how they are so great and everything else is CRAP is just more FUD/spin/hot air.
A movement can't be spin. Spin is when people try to divert the movement. Spin is when people try to polish a turd to sell it to you as a deoderant.
Know the difference and you'll be a better person for it.:)
Actually because Firefox is 'sandboxed' and not integrated into the OS, it is a MILLION times safer than IE. True there have been MINOR vulnerabilities reported and I think they even had one major vulnerability that was patched in under 2 hours.
Maybe because by the time the justice department did anything about it, it was too little, too late.
Maybe people still call them a monopoly to make Microsoft aware that they have alot of work to do yet in order to work with the industry instead of against it.
Maybe because people know that if left unchecked and unwatched, they would lobby against open standards and fair use.
Maybe because people still think of them as evil and Microsoft does little but to reinforce this belief.
Like I said, you obviously belong in the 90%. Again, your attempt to negate this law of nature by calling it into question proves your inability to comprehend this inevitable truth. If you belong to the 90%, you will never see this. True it is subjective but one can argue that everything is subjective. It still won't change that this still holds true and you are the only one arguing it proving even further your placement within the majority.
It follows the '90% of everything is crap' principle. 90% of poetry, music, books, tv, movies, software, users, etc. are all crap. If you don't believe it, it's only because you are a consumer of crap.
Genius is less than 10% of the population and as such, only 10% of produced goods can possibly be of an exceptional quality. This goes for art, music, software, etc.
The principle is unarguable and your reply exemplifies this.
Which would be worse... the $2.4 million a day fine or loss of ALL European sales? How about all those users switching to others OS's? How much is that worth? Or how aboyut those people who want to use Microsoft products copying them illegally in Europe so they canm use them? How much is that worth?
They'll threaten perhaps but there is no way in hell they will go through with it especially since they would have to justify it to stock holders.
Slashdot Mirror
By the way, anonymous cowards have no street cred. Take your .NET and go back to the community college you came from. :)
You imply that .NET is not compatible with Firefox. Totally wrong.
.NET as an entirety that is false.
.NET can work if it is server side... it';s just that when they try to do stuff client side, they deviate from standards and as such, break in anything but IE. It is their lack of sticking to standards and supporting standards that cause ASP.NET to break. ,i.And by the way, it helps to talk about specifics. Saying "it's the whole thing that makes it unscalable" is completely vague and makes you sound ignorant
.NET programs require twice the amount of lines of code as their competitors (with the exception of maybe JAVA). How about the memory leaks, the multiple thread failures, etc etc. The security flaws, the resource hogging, the lack of ability to modify the machine for the task at hand (ie config files).
Actually, it is your assumption that I was talking about
ASP.NET is a combination of VBscript and C#. VBscript does not work with anything besides IE (unless it is server side thus making VBscript pointless). Also, in order to do alot of stuff in ASP.NET, it often trys to get you to use those two. It has gotten so bad that now Microsoft has stated that the next version of IE will dump VBscript and ActiveX support.
Ok junior, how about the fact that it forces a million other apops to boot that I won't use when I start up my server. How about that it forces the GUI down your throat and even when you are working in a command line, that GUI environment still has reserved resources. How about the fact that IIS has on average an uptime of about 1/10th that of Apache machines. How about the fact that
The list goes on and on and if you were a real engineer, you would be aware of half these these so that statements that seem ignorant would not show off your ignorance instead.
I guess this is why it's so hard to believe anything that they say and why it's so easy to believe anyone that says something different than Microsoft; they have established that anything they say will be slanted in their favor no matter how absurd that when someone says Steve Ballmer threw a chair and he counters with 'no I didn't', who do you think everyone believed?
Their spin now works against them as they have been labeled as uncredible. No matter WHO says it. So much so that companies they HIRE to spin for them now get labelled as uncredible if they are even KNOWN to be financed or have a relationship with Microsoft.
Regardless of whether it is true or not, thats the way the industry (and now the press) view it.
They have established themselves as a company of spin doctors and now anything stated by them is taken with a couple boxcars full of salt.
Actually, more people come to Slashdot to read about distro releases and open source news than windows releases. Keep in mind the target audience and who reads Slashdot. They aren't really hitting their demographic with a story about a Windows exec; it would be better served with an engineer talking about the different aspects and approaches. That I would want to read.
Maybe Slashdot should have a section called 'exec brag' where the heads of Sun and IBM and Microsoft call all bullshit and spin while we are left with the engineering reports. But the sad fact is that in alot of these cases, it is hard to derive spin from fact and it is up the the viewer to discern based on past company discrepancies and trends.
Hence, Microsoft exec = spin. Even if it came from an engineer as Microsoft, my 'spin detector' would probably be going off the charts; they have about as good a record with the truth as George Bush.
If my code runs on 90% of the computers in the world that is enough for me. Lately I program asp.net/c# apps for a web development company
.NET is only a part of that whole. But I should remind you, VISTA was supposed to be written in .NET... wonder why they abandoned it? Hmmm?
So your code runs on approximately 50-80% of all peoples computers (considering that Firefox now accounts for anywhere from 20-50 percent market share) as only IE supports VB script and activeX controls. Thats a winning combo for the company you are working for. I know I'd love to have that number of potential customers not be able to see my site.
And no, I would not put Windows lack of ability to scale on any ONE SINGULAR aspect. It's the whole that makes it unscaleable. And
Go to a good school with a decent tech program. I live here in Seattle/Redmond and I know how hard it can be to get into a school that teaches anything but .NET. But I taught myself and as a result of all these people moving and converting to Linux to save on monthly and yearly costs, I really only compete with one or two other developers at each job interview.
Back in 95 when I was at Amazon, I couldn't find ANY schools that taught just a basic PERL class so I grabbed a book and started learning it myself.
If you think this is the future of computing, don't let the fact that school boards haven't adapted yet stop you. Hell, I ran across a girl who is taking a web development course and all they are teaching is the same thing you are talking about and they not once talked about Apache EVEN THOUGH APACHE IS 70% OF THE MARKET!!
Schools teach what local tech companies on their board tell them to teach. If they are a school in an area with alot of Microsoft based companies, you will get the school teaching only Microsoft skills... even if businesses outside that 25 mile circumference use an entirely different set of skills!!
It's up to you to educate yourself. And since all the applications and tools are free, the only thing stopping you is individual motivation.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
.NET people can find work so easily? Because it takes 2-4 times that many to match the skillset of one good LINUX developer.
:)
And do you know why all
Thus you are going to have 5 job openings in comparison to every 1 good open source job.
I built a LAMP architecture for a Microsoft vendor and when they got pressured to convert by MS, I told them it would take 2-3 developer to do what I did, that they would have to start paying through the nose for all the additional applications and software that is free in a LAMP architecture and that it would take them 6 months to a year before they were able to start working on anything new after converting the code base.
3 months after I left, The head of marketing and HR called me and told me that was precisely what happened and that they finally just outsourced it to an agency and that they weren't going to convert the architecture afterall because they realize after the fact just how right I was.
So good luck with that $35K a year job and your new Honda. The rest of us engineers will be changing the world rather than trying to convert it.
If your most important requirement for any programming language is the ability to port your programs to other OSs you are really missing the point of software development. Its all about making cool software. The OS is just a tool. Source code is your canvas, and .Net is nothing more than a set of really nice paint brushes.
LOL ok what community college art program pumped you out? For engineers, portability is always an issue just as scalability is as well. If the platform you are on won't scale anymore or yoiu don't have money to throw 5 machines at a problem that may only take only Linux box, you are looking at not only a scalability decision but a portability issue if you chose a language that doesn't port.
Any beginning computer engineering course will tell you this.
I know what you mean. My PHP,PERL and JAVA code will work with Apache and IIS and on Linux or Mac or Windows. .NET, VB and C# are just an attempt by Microsoft to force developers onto one OS and to develop for one OS. If they were smart, they'd be promoting the HELL out of MONO and working with them to make it better.
Point taken. Open source is the movement and Linux is just an ASPECT of open source and not to be confused with the movement as a whole.
And my point isn't to say NOT to cover Windows news... but this isn't really news is it? It's just some exec saying 'look at me! look at me!' and throwing chairs around.
And who would this multimillion dollar corporation paying for PR, marketing and press coverage be that you claim is behind this spin for Linux, hmm?
:)
Linux's publicity is due to a social movement... not a billion dollar marketing buzz. Slashdot covers it because to not cover a movement that affects the entire industry would be assinine. Covering a Microsoft executive talking about how they are so great and everything else is CRAP is just more FUD/spin/hot air.
A movement can't be spin. Spin is when people try to divert the movement. Spin is when people try to polish a turd to sell it to you as a deoderant.
Know the difference and you'll be a better person for it.
Slashdot editors provide free advertising for Microsoft spin doctors. Film at eleven!
Actually because Firefox is 'sandboxed' and not integrated into the OS, it is a MILLION times safer than IE. True there have been MINOR vulnerabilities reported and I think they even had one major vulnerability that was patched in under 2 hours.
Still, it's game is way ahead of IE.
Lacks intelligence and forethought. Are you Steve Ballmer?
When is a Windows flaw ever not extremely serious?
:)
Oh wait... I know this joke...
When it's a feature
Say it isn't so!! (Score:5, Funny)
I agree.
Windows Exploit? Isn't that redundant?
Let us count the intellectually absent posts..
Don't forget to count your own post
Maybe because by the time the justice department did anything about it, it was too little, too late.
Maybe people still call them a monopoly to make Microsoft aware that they have alot of work to do yet in order to work with the industry instead of against it.
Maybe because people know that if left unchecked and unwatched, they would lobby against open standards and fair use.
Maybe because people still think of them as evil and Microsoft does little but to reinforce this belief.
Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. :)
Like I said, you obviously belong in the 90%. Again, your attempt to negate this law of nature by calling it into question proves your inability to comprehend this inevitable truth. If you belong to the 90%, you will never see this. True it is subjective but one can argue that everything is subjective. It still won't change that this still holds true and you are the only one arguing it proving even further your placement within the majority.
It follows the '90% of everything is crap' principle. 90% of poetry, music, books, tv, movies, software, users, etc. are all crap. If you don't believe it, it's only because you are a consumer of crap.
Genius is less than 10% of the population and as such, only 10% of produced goods can possibly be of an exceptional quality. This goes for art, music, software, etc.
The principle is unarguable and your reply exemplifies this.
The majority of the world is using that particular worthless operating system.
Yes and 80% of the world are morons. What's your excuse?
Where do you want to point and click today?
Which would be worse... the $2.4 million a day fine or loss of ALL European sales? How about all those users switching to others OS's? How much is that worth? Or how aboyut those people who want to use Microsoft products copying them illegally in Europe so they canm use them? How much is that worth?
They'll threaten perhaps but there is no way in hell they will go through with it especially since they would have to justify it to stock holders.
Riiiight. Well you let me know when they find those WMD's, ok?