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Windows XP Flaw 'Extremely Serious'

scottott wrote to mention a Washington Post article with the news that the security hole we mentioned on Wednesday has widened. Computers can now be infected just by visiting infected web sites, or looking at images in the preview panel of older versions of Outlook. From the article: "At first, the vulnerability was exploited by just a few dozen Web sites. Programming code embedded in these pages would install a program that warned victims their machines were infested with spyware, then prompted them to pay $40 to remove the supposed pests. Since then, however, hundreds of sites have begun using the flaw to install a broad range of malicious software. SANS has received several reports of attackers blasting out spam e-mails containing links that lead to malicious sites exploiting the new flaw, Ullrich said."

630 comments

  1. Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Mac and Linux computer users are not at risk with this attack, even if their computers run Microsoft programs such as Office or the Internet Explorer Web browser."

    Amazing!

    1. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Er... Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer do run on Linux using wine.

    2. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Informative

      Er.... Mac and Linux machines are no more succeptable to Windows XP exploits than you are to kennel cough or feline leukemia.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by operagost · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm a cat, you insensitive clod! *cough*

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Mercano · · Score: 1

      Unless you are running Virtual PC or WINE.

      --
      #include <signature.h>
    5. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Informative
      At the risk of getting cluelessly flamed again:

      1) Yes, Virtual PC and WINE allow you to run Microsoft programs like Internet Explorer and Office.
      2) The vulnerability is in the Microsoft Windows Graphics Rendering Engine, which is a part of the Windows kernel, and is why the exploit affects Windows versions from Win98 to WinXP.
      3) Virtual PC and WINE running under Linux do not use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine.
      4) Even if they did, a Windows program trying to run in a Linux environment is a fish out of water, and can't do much besides SEGFAULT and exit.
      5) Therefore, Linux (and Mac) users are safe, even if they are running IE or Office - just like the article said.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I already tried using wmf2x and the rest of the wmf2* programs I had, yet none of them could do anything with the WMFs. The WMFs are of course badly formed, so the *nix utilities fail gracefully. We were discussing this on SH/SC, but I didn't think it would become this huge...

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    7. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Ackmo · · Score: 1, Funny

      On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.

    8. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the beginning of 2005, a UK PC Magazine tested the latest 5 Windows viruses on Mac OS X using Virtual PC and Linux (SUSE) using WINE. All 5 failed to infect WINE and one infected Virtual PC but couldn't go further than the Disk File created for as the HD for Windows.

    9. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by giorgosts · · Score: 1

      how can you become infected when connected in LUA mode? I thought non-priveledged users cannot install software

    10. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hullo there, fellow goony!

    11. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by bushidocoder · · Score: 5, Informative
      Not to be nitpicky, but the graphics rendering engine is not entirely in the kernel on 2000/XP/2003. Most of it is in the Win32 subsystem which runs in userspace.

      The graphics rendering engine is divided between the Win32 subsystem which is a user process (csrss.exe), and the Win32 executive (Win32.sys) which actually runs in kernel space. The portion of the graphics system in the executive is limitted almost exclusively to the actual displaying of images and direct interaction with the drivers that interface with the display hardware. I'm not 100% sure, but I can't ever recall there being a vulnerability found in this part of the executive.

      This specific vulnerability, like almost all image processing vulnerabilities, occurs in the image format parser, which is in the Win32 subsystem. As such its not in the kernel and runs in standard user scope. I know this doesn't change the point you were trying to make, which was the vulnerability doesn't occur on other systems. I just wanted to correct the statement about it being a kernel vulnerability.

    12. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Informative
      I agree with all of that. Hell, I still tend to think of it as gdi.exe, which is about the last time I cared what Windows internals really looked like. But this "bug" is even better than that - it's not in the image format parser, it's in the freakin' WMF API!!! Believe it or not, WMF files are allowed to have callback functions (user or kernel mode unknown by me) in them - in other words a (picture) data file can contain executable code to "help" Windows display it!! <drools, whaps forehead> It gets better: change the file extension to "jgp" or "gif" or another image type, hell, probably any file type that has a custom icon/is previewable, and Windows will look at the file and go "oh - that's really a WMF file - I know what to do..." (I'm dyin' here). Even Windows Explorer (with thumbnails enabled) will execute the code if you look at a directory that contains one of these files.

      If there ever was a smoking-gun lead-pipe indictment of Microsoft's sloppy love of whizzo features, security, stability, maintainability, administerability be damned; this has GOT to be it. If the filetype API is that flawed, we need to just get rid of .WMF files, period.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    13. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by secolactico · · Score: 1

      Er.... Mac and Linux machines are no more succeptable to Windows XP exploits than you are to kennel cough or feline leukemia. ... or bird flu

      --
      No sig
    14. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by bryan8m · · Score: 1

      I use Firefox...how does this affect me?

    15. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Trixter · · Score: 1

      "3) Virtual PC and WINE running under Linux do not use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine."

      Uh, hello? Virtual PC most certainly does. It's just a virtualized PC that runs all of WinXP, so it is most definitely vulnerable.

      Of course, the worst that could happen is that your virtual disk image would be completely boffoed -- unless you're mounting filesystems between Virtual PC and *nix...

    16. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kernels are typically called executives by people with clues about operating systems, but have a nice day anyways Windows boi.

    17. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by temcat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Did you mean: kernel cough

    18. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you pussy!

    19. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by setzman · · Score: 1

      This same behavior happens with other file types in Windows, including Word documents. Try creating a Word document in Office XP, save it, then rename it and remove the extension. Double-click it, and it loads up in Word despite not having a file extension for Windows Explorer to "know" what application to launch.

      --
      C:\>
    20. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, I love the inexperienced who really DON'T have clues trying to come across as intelligent by picking apart someone else's otherwise legitimate comments by the only thing they do understand, in this case grammar. Hope you enjoyed getting that shit pushed back in.

    21. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's because Windows understands structered storage format natively and owner application's GUID is stored as the first entry.

    22. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're being nitpicky.

    23. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by object88 · · Score: 1

      Not to be nitpicky, but...

      Interesting information on the layout of the Windows OS.

      I've just recently taken a serious interest in the guts of the Linux kernel, and have found books such as Understanding The Linux Kernel and Linux Device Drivers fascinating, if sometimes difficult to follow. Are there any equivilant (affordable) books for the Windows kernel or OS? Though I am a Windows programmer, I don't think I could convince my company to spring for a $100+ book when my work is with VB6 and C#. With the exception of device drivers, I wouldn't be able to actually use the information, I suppose, but I still am curious...

      Thanks!

    24. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by jasen666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Same as IE. It's in the way Windows processes and displays this type of image file, so it doesn't matter what program is displaying the image.
      At least in Firefox, you will get a prompt asking you to run the script before it executes. So as long as you always remember to click on "Hell NO", you should be pretty safe.

    25. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by bushidocoder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, there's a fantastic book about the Windows internals called Microsoft Windows Internals, Fourth Edition by Mark Russinovich. Every Windows programmer should have this book. Even if your work is entirely in .NET, its important to know why some of the decisions in .NET were made as they were, and its also vitally important to know exactly how Windows handles process security.

    26. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by pkphilip · · Score: 1

      Try Charlez Petzold's books:
      http://www.charlespetzold.com/books.html/

    27. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by pkphilip · · Score: 1

      An "executive" is different from an executable and the GP was referring to an "executive" - so it appears that you are the one without a clue.

    28. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by object88 · · Score: 1

      Try Charlez Petzold's books

      I'm fairly familiar with Petzold's books (having referenced Programming Windows with C# on many an occasion), but I never really got the impression that he went into kernel stuff...

    29. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by object88 · · Score: 1

      Actually, there's a fantastic book about the Windows internals called Microsoft Windows Internals, Fourth Edition by Mark Russinovich.

      Thanks; I'll look into this. Amazon's price and user's comments puts it right about where I want.

    30. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Stargoat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Goddamn furries. Never had to deal with them before the Internet.

      --
      Hoist Number One and Number Six.
    31. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by squiggleslash · · Score: 1
      The vulnerability is in the Microsoft Windows Graphics Rendering Engine, which is a part of the Windows kernel, and is why the exploit affects Windows versions from Win98 to WinXP.
      Are you sure about that? Windows 98 and Windows XP have completely different kernels - I don't mean XP's 98 with a bit added, I mean XP is the latest version of NT, and 98 is the latest version of "DOS" Windows 1.0. They're unrelated as operating systems, except Microsoft has made the effort to get them successively more compatable so it can drop "DOS" Windows completely. Which it has.

      They no doubt share common code, but it's in user space, not kernel space.

      I also have a gut feeling that the Graphics Rendering Engine doesn't reside in kernel space in XP. While Microsoft was criticised for undermining it's original microkernel design when, in NT 4, they added the display device drivers to the kernel, I don't believe they added substantially more than that.

      Virtual PC and WINE running under Linux do not use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine.
      Virtual PC almost certainly does. It doesn't replace the kernel or rest of Windows at all. It requires a clean, complete, copy of Microsoft Windows be installed inside of it.

      As for WINE, many people do replace most of the components of WINE with those of Windows except for some specific instances. Whether the GRE is one of those components I don't know. WINE tries to be compatable "as-is", but has been woefully incomplete in the past, and it's just been easier for many people to install the "real" Windows DLLs and other system files with it.

      Even if they did, a Windows program trying to run in a Linux environment is a fish out of water, and can't do much besides SEGFAULT and exit.
      The purpose of WINE is to provide Windows programs with the ability to run and do more than SEGFAULT and exit. The purpose of Virtual PC is to provide a complete emulation of a PC. In both senses, a Windows application running under either in a Linux environment is not a "Fish out of water", more a "Fish in a bowl." Under Virtual PC, the app will be able to do as much damage to the virtual environment as the same app running on a Windows-only PC. Under WINE, the app may be able to infect those parts of the file system visible to the WINE environment, depending on whether WINE is compatable enough.
      Therefore, Linux (and Mac) users are safe, even if they are running IE or Office - just like the article said.
      If the Mac is running a PC emulator, then no, they're not completely safe, their Windows virtual environment may be trashable. The rest of the Mac will likely be fine. The same is true of a Virtual PC based system under Linux. The jury is out in terms of the information available to me on whether IE running under WINE is suseptable. I don't know if the GRE is one of the things WINE emulates always or only optionally.
      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    32. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Krach42 · · Score: 1

      3) Virtual PC and WINE running under Linux do not use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine.

      You do not understand how Virtual PC works. Virtual PC does in fact use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine that is broken, and the Windows that is running under Virtual PC can be infected the same as any Windows platform.

      WINE does not use the vulnerable DLL by default, and has a seperate and independent implementation of that DLL. You can however, install the DLL and thus become potentially vulnerable.

      Since WINE presents a Windows like environment to programs, it is unknown if WINE is sufficiently bug-for-bug compliant enough that it would allow this exploit to work. But be aware, that if a program prints out "Segmentation Fault" it's potentially possible that it can be exploited.

      But regardless of anything about WINE, a Virtual PC image running a vulnerable copy of Windows is most definitely vulnerable. Just the hosting Linux computer isn't vulnerable.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    33. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2

      Try this book out:

      http://www.sysinternals.com/WindowsInternals.html? v=glance&s=books/systemsinternals

      I read a good chunk of it and it gets down and dirty... and yes, you're right. It's not really stuff that is useful for an application developer.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    34. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by rakslice · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why you would get a prompt in firefox... does ff have its own wmf parser?

    35. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 1

      Correction. VMware, or QEMU, or any other Linux virtualization environment WILL be vulnerable, but only for the image. It won't break the confines of the virutalized environment.

      WINE may or may not be vulnerable. I'm betting that Wine's incomplete WMF support will render it unable to correctly implement this crap. If you notice billions of Wine processes spawned on your system, however, you're infected. Luckily, it'll be restrained into your Wine environment, not your general linux environment.

      Wine's goal is to implement the Windows API bug-for-bug, with security work arounds as necessary. For the most part, most security vulnerability rely upon bugs in Windows that simply don't work the same way on Wine; often, esoteric tricks just break in different ways on WINE and Windows. Buffer overruns rarely work the same way. Poorly implemented security models, however, _may_ break in the same way; it'll depend on Wine's WMF implementation here, so I have no idea.

      But I suspect it won't work, mainly because this kind of rarely used functionality generally doesn't get implemented in Wine until some app really needs it.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    36. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      It gets better: change the file extension to "jgp" or "gif" or another image type, hell, probably any file type that has a custom icon/is previewable, and Windows will look at the file and go "oh - that's really a WMF file - I know what to do..."

      As someone mentioned in a reply, Windows has some metadata stored with the file that tells it what to open it with. (This is similar to the metadata that identifies a file as an "unsafe" download.) Have you tried catting the file to a .jpg or a .gif - which keeps just the "data fork" but not the metadata?

    37. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      You mean the file extension? Hardly counts as metadata.

      Mac OS9 used metadata for this. OSX uses file extenstions like Windows, but hides them from the user.

    38. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by kimvette · · Score: 1

      There are lots of books on the subject - any Borders or Barns & Noble will have many. They won't be 100% accurate as the authors have to look from the outside-in for the parts M$ hasn't publicly documented.

      Heck, even the Linux books aren't 100% accurate by the time the books are published because the OS is "evolving" so quickly.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    39. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Yes but the great thing about *nix, as I'm sure you're well aware, is that even if the WINE environment is vulnerable to any such exploit due to the presence of those DLLs, those exploits will be nicely confined to ~/ just like any other exploit run as non-root. Of course, if you run WINE as root and make your whole system vulnerable, you deserve to get hit by the exploit.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    40. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      You mean the file extension? Hardly counts as metadata.

      Sorry if I wasn't clear. Explicitly not the file extension: Windows has other metadata with the file that overrides this sometimes (I've seen it get in the way; I'm not sure how to trigger it.) I was asking if perhaps this metadata was taking precedence over his changing the extension.

    41. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by OneSeventeen · · Score: 1

      But the microsoft advertisement said Windows was more secure, more reliable, and easier to use than linux... This article, and all of the past microsoft security hole articles, therefore, must be incorrect or misinformed.

      Fortunately I talked my OS/software purchases over with a few developers before tying myself into a vendor. Sadly, the only Microsoft-developed application in my house is the computer that serves as a print/scanner server. (Silly how hardware manufacturers can strongarm you into an OS you don't trust.)

      --
      "Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed." -C.S. Lewis
    42. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of Overrated, I might've modded this Funny, even though it appears to have been unintentionally so. To the parent AC, thanks for the laugh, and next time you might want to just do a quick check before posting.

    43. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God damn, there are some really dumb people around here. I'll try to type this slowly for you: The other AC fucked up because he didn't know Windows. (He didn't know it had an executive.) So it's more like he's probably a dumb Linux boi. Kind of like you.

    44. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Bush+Pig · · Score: 2, Funny

      What on earth are you talking about? I was so confused by your comment I thought I'd better consult Andy Tanenbaum's "Modern Operating Systems". You are absolutely and completely wrong.

      Kernels are called kernels, and executives are called pointy-haired bosses. I don't see how you could have got the two classes of objects confused.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    45. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by jasen666 · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't view them natively. So it must open them in another program.

    46. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by m-wielgo · · Score: 1

      Windows needs to get rid of it's current file system and use a *nix file system, with no "file extensions". there is NO need for file extensions as all the information needed for Windows to recognize a file is in its metadata

    47. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EAL Rating should be revoked. Yet again, monetary driven certification tars things for the rest.

      Recall theory that the kernel has rings of security - this is not possible according to MS literature.
      Well, it is possible if the rings have secret doors, bypasses, and speed hacks for the GUI.
      Thereagain, MS has said everything is documented, so it will be with interest if this really is documented. If so, why did nobody spot 'pass this code to the kernel from userland' to be excecuted with privileges. Grep this documentation, and other likely entry points will be found.

    48. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Jafar00 · · Score: 1

      heh :) Thats how I read it. Dyslexia sets in. ;)

      --
      RebateFX.com - Spread rebates for Forex traders
    49. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by SandManMattSH · · Score: 1

      Not true. MacOS X can use any of the following to decide how to open a file:
      Extension
      MIME Type
      Creator
      An option to store in the metadata a default program to open that specific file with.

      Any of those will work, not just extensions. If you open a file in "vi", write a little to it, save it to the desktop without an extension, quit "vi", and double-click on the file, it will automatically open in "TextEdit.app".

    50. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by efishta · · Score: 1

      This isn't true, as I just tried it. I'm using Office 2003 running on Windows XP, and I got an "Open With" program selection dialog.

    51. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by setzman · · Score: 1

      I tried it with Word XP, not 2003. It works on my system.

      --
      C:\>
    52. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by Lotharus · · Score: 1

      [S]He does have a clue. Ever installed post-NT Windows? What's the first thing the installer says as it's loading the runtime environment? Say it with me, kids...

      Loading...Windows Executive

      Doesn't mean the word is right, of course, but that's what the installer says. It's fair for someone to use the same words the software itself uses.

    53. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by wilburpb · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing the functionality of Wine with that of VirtualPC.

      On VirtualPC, you are emulating hardware at a pretty low level and running a full version of windows, there are some extensions that can be loaded, optionally, to improve things like copy/paste between OSX and Windows, but you're running a full otherwise unadulterated version of Windows.

      You can (and I do) install Windows from a normal Windows ISO rather than the "special" one that ships with VPC, simply by "booting" the VPC from the ISO. You can even install an x86 Linux distro on VirtualPC if you like.

      Therefore, I don't see any reason this wouldn't affect VirtualPC users.

    54. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by mixmasta · · Score: 1

      I read the previous edition of this one:

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0735619174/ref=pd _bbs_null_1/002-1792261-2772810?s=books&v=glance&n =283155

      Remember to remove any spaces slashdot puts in. It's not a bad book. I learned a lot even if it was a bit dry at times.

      --
      #6495ED - cornflower blue
    55. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by dougmc · · Score: 1
      in other words a (picture) data file can contain executable code to "help" Windows display it!!
      It sounds pretty crazy in 2006, I agree, but this sort of thing used to be quite common.

      I don't know how long you've been on the Internet and Usenet and such, but up until a decade ago much software was posted to Usenet in the form of shar files. Basically these were just shell scripts that created all the files that were enclosed. Normally they were harmless, but it would have been trivial to add code to do whatever to a shar file, and people would run it for you. (I think using `unshar' would protect you against this sort of thing, however.)

      I can provide some more modern examples too. .doc files can have macros embedded in them, and when loaded (even just to view) the macros are run. Now you can disable this, but it wasn't always the case.

      Postscript? Sure, it is used by printers, but it's a whole language. And until recently, you could tell your postscript interpeter to run things for you with the right command. Now, this probably wasn't too dangerous for your printer, but if you were just viewing the file with ghostscript? Oops.

      As much as I enjoy bashing Microsoft, this isn't the first time something like this has come up when you think you're just viewing something. And it probably won't be the last.

      If there ever was a smoking-gun lead-pipe indictment of Microsoft's sloppy love of whizzo features, security, stability, maintainability, administerability be damned; this has GOT to be it. If the filetype API is that flawed, we need to just get rid of .WMF files, period.
      Good luck with that. If history has taught us anything, it's that end users generally prefer features to security, and they'll tolerate increased security only as long as it doesn't take away features that they want. Microsoft didn't start the trend, but they do keep it well fed.

      Also, consider when this feature was created -- Windows 3.0 or so. Back then, most Windows boxes weren't networked, and so if you got software, you installed it from a floppy. Email existed, but you generally read it via a serial port while logged into another computer with a terminal emulator. Transferring files was done via kermit and xmodem and such, though floppies were probably used more often. There were no web pages to look at, no graphics images sent to you via email (though you might download one via a BBS.)

      In any event, Microsoft probably though they were making the wmf format more adaptable to any unanticipated future needs by adding that feature -- and given the computing environment back then, it probably wasn't such a bad decision. (In hindsight it was a bad idea, but hindsight is always 20/20.) In any event, it got carried around as Windows was upgraded over and over and probably wasn't given much thought. At least not until somebody realized that it could be used today to do bad things.

    56. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by dougmc · · Score: 1
      Windows needs to get rid of it's current file system and use a *nix file system, with no "file extensions". there is NO need for file extensions as all the information needed for Windows to recognize a file is in its metadata
      Huh? *nix files have extensions too. *nix has `magic numbers' at the beginning of files that generally tell the OS and applications what this file is and such, but 1) some applications still use extensions, even in *nix, 2) Windows also similarly uses magic numbers for many things, and 3) it's not really metadata, as it's part of the file itself.

      What does this have to do with the filesystem? MacOS's filesystem has a seperate data and resource fork, and OS/2's HPFS had extended attributes, but this stuff is all based on the standard file contents and names, and doesn't require any special filesystems (and wouldn't be fixed by switching to another filesystem.)

    57. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by spir0 · · Score: 1

      I can't figure out of you're one of those "tech guys" everyone's mothers refers to knowing, or if you're just an honest-to-goodness clueless n00b. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt..

      The exploit under Wine or VPC will only affect the hosted Windows OS, not OS-X or Linux. The host OS will never ever be able to run windows code, therefore unaffected.

      --
      The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
    58. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by kesuki · · Score: 1

      first off, the nature of this bug that when windows sees a wmf file (or even a jpg or gif that's 'really a wmf' it launches this 'inserted code' it's entirely possible that the code they're trying to execute cause wine and virtual pc to barf, or cause the 'fake' wmf to open in quicktime or totem... Wine and Virtual PC can actually be quite difficult to get windows applications to work 'nicely' with, because even if they require a full install of windows, they usually are intended to only lauch the specific application, withing the native screen environmet, not the entire os.. now vmware creates a complete sandbox, by creating a hardware abstraction layer. since every piece of the os is running it's just as vulnerable to exploits.

    59. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      If history has taught us anything, it's that end users generally prefer features to security

      Wha? No. Users prefer usability to security. And while "usability" is a complicated, one of the easiest ways to kill it is to throw in so many features that users can never find the one they want.

      And for that matter, users do care about security, they just don't believe me when I tell them how bad it is. By the time they do, they're so locked into Microsoft products that it's too late to change. Not for the bells-and-whistles features that Microsoft gives them, but for very real features that their business depends on, done by third parties, exclusively for Windows.

      I doubt a single user out there, if asked, would prefer WMF support with this worm to just dropping WMF altogether.

      In any event, it got carried around as Windows was upgraded over and over and probably wasn't given much thought.

      That's why the rest of us don't carry stuff around unless we're willing to think about it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    60. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by TheLogster · · Score: 1

      Motorola - We'll go with the Harvard archtecture, so people can't execute data. Intel - Nah - that seems like too much hard work.

    61. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by dougmc · · Score: 1
      No. Users prefer usability to security.
      There's lots of things that users prefer to security. My point is that security is not something that most end-users worry much about -- at least until a lack of it bites them in the ass.
      one of the easiest ways to kill it is to throw in so many features that users can never find the one they want.
      Not all features have to be visible to the end user.
      I doubt a single user out there, if asked, would prefer WMF support with this worm to just dropping WMF altogether.
      This is just one example, and it's a very bad one, because you forgot the most likely option -- they'll get keep their WMF support, and the hole will be closed. And I think they'll get this option in six days or less from Microsoft. (Which I agree is, at this point, too long, and I suspect that it'll go out sooner than that due to public pressure.)

      If I recall correctly, Word (Office?) documents often (usually?) have internal pictures in WMF format, and users certainly will care if the pictures in their Word documents stop working. People may not be aware of it. but they're using WMF pictures extensively, even today.

      I've spent a good deal of time dealing with Microsoft file formats in a *nix world, and one thing I've done is set up systems to automatically convert Word documents to things that are more www friendly, and WMF files are still appearing in that system at a rather high rate, even today. (My system then converts them to PNGs.) People might tolerate breaking the pictures in their documents for a week, but they won't like the idea of them never working again.

      That's why the rest of us don't carry stuff around unless we're willing to think about it.
      Yes. Only Microsoft has old code in their products that hasn't been touched in a while. While I certainly can admire OpenBSD's (periodic?) complete code audits, I'm also aware that that sort of thing is very rare, especially in closed source software.

      /., aka Bizarro World, where I end up defending Microsoft ...

    62. Re:Late breaking news from the article: by mmkkbb · · Score: 1

      3) Virtual PC and WINE running under Linux do not use the Microsoft Graphics Rendering Engine.

      Virtual PC runs plain ol' Windows, so it does, in fact, use the affected DLL.

      --
      -mkb
  2. Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Guys, you keep posting that same story about a serious security flaw in Windows.

    1. Re:Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since last time it has been reportet that this can also be exploited by renaming infected wmf files to other image formats like jpg, gif and tif:
      http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/420378/30/0 /threaded

    2. Re:Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another dupe, and still no details on how to find out if you're infected.

      Is there a virus scanner that will detect the installed programs? Do they show up in the Task Manager process list? The only indication I have so far that my machines are clean is that I haven't been asked to pony up $40 for their cleanup.

      Does anyone have a better way of finding out if you're infected?

    3. Re:Another /. dupe by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Another dupe, and still no details on how to find out if you're infected.

      How could you know? They can do pretty much whatever they want to your* computer. There's no one single indication to look for.

      *assuming "your" computer is running Windows.

    4. Re:Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " the installed programs " can be anything that someone chose to install once they'd managed to run code of their choice on your machine. Run your usual virus checker (or another if you don't trust it, or one of the web-based ones).

      If you've got a software firewall (not the windows one) set up properly, it may detect unsolicited outbound connections. Your virus checker might detect unwarranted program execution.

      Maybe if you're worried it's worth doing a decent scan?

    5. Re:Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      And even if you run Windows, let us not forget the credo of the Chief Architect: People don't want bug fixes, they want new features.

      During Microsoft's "Month of Code" how many problems were fixed vs introduced?
      Microsoft's got a new Interview Question: Demonstrate write code in assembly, C and C++ which avoids the issue of buffer overflow (because we don't know how to do it and need some examples.)

    6. Re:Another /. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quote ..all common graphics files can carry the exploit.
      Unquote

  3. Browser appliance by QuaintRealist · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you use Windows, go get the vmware browser appliance and use it - connecting to the internet through a virtual machine is like wearing gloves in the OR - it's just common sense.

    http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/vm/browserapp.html

    --
    Using plain ol' text since 1968
    1. Re:Browser appliance by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      are you able to download files to the host machine with that? the description doesn't give much info

    2. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Do you engage in unprotected web browsing?
      You need trojan-linux(tm), a specially lubricated linux distro for VMWare Player(tm). Be safe, protect your Microsoft(tm) Windows(tm) install with Trojan-linux(tm)* today.

      * Also availiable in "Redmond Cherry"(tm) flavor.

    3. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK, you'd need to use SAMBA to access the host OS drive. Worse, the web browser app is GNOME based. I've got a DSL image running under VMWare player on my win2k box at work, it uses flux and is pretty responsive even if the startup times are still hideous.

    4. Re:Browser appliance by BushCheney08 · · Score: 2, Funny

      * Also availiable in "Redmond Cherry"(tm) flavor.

      Dude, that cherry was popped a loooooong time ago. And it's been used repeatedly since then...

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    5. Re:Browser appliance by operagost · · Score: 1

      No, it's like wearing a condom-- it stinks.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    6. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, common sense if you use Windows to access stuff on the Internet. Personally I use Linux or OS X, neither of which require the overhead of running a VM.

    7. Re:Browser appliance by juhaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Too bad there was VMWare vulnerability just a week ago that allows guest to execute abritrary code on host system.

    8. Re:Browser appliance by dr_d_19 · · Score: 1

      If you use Windows, go get the vmware browser appliance and use it - connecting to the internet through a virtual machine is like wearing gloves in the OR - it's just common sense.

      Since the Browser Appliance Virtual Machine was one the products open for exploit of the underlying OS, I would rather describe this action as handling molten lava using mittens :)

    9. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are wearing your condom in the wrong place... :->)

    10. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, a 200+ MB browser, Brilliant!

    11. Re:Browser appliance by drpimp · · Score: 1

      I run XP with Linux on VMware, and from within the VMware I have another XP install. Does that make me twice as safe? If not I can run a few more instances... as many as I need to be safe. It's like life, usually you double or triple up on the dirty girls, so why not on the PC?

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    12. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does it even know what CPU the host system is using if it can't be identified with the user agent string or anything?

    13. Re:Browser appliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or he's had it on for far too long.

    14. Re:Browser appliance by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      Looking at that vulnerability, that only affects you if you're running the guest under NAT mode. Bridged and host-only modes are safe.

    15. Re:Browser appliance by DDRLord · · Score: 1

      While you're at it, get a firewall. I got the hit by the exploit myself, but by preventing it from connecting it to the internet, it sat stagnant on my C:\ drive. Simply download an alternative Task Manager (it disables the Windows one, so you can't Ctrl-Alt-Del), kill whatever process tried to do it, and then delete it. Wham, bam, thank you mam. One meltdown aborted. Mind you, your results may vary based on what's bundled with the WMF you end up downloading.

  4. Temporary Solution by Hank+Chinaski · · Score: 5, Informative
    run
    regsvr32 -u %windir%\system32\shimgvw.dll
    until a patch is released.
    --
    IAAL
    1. Re:Temporary Solution by Bromskloss · · Score: 0

      You forget to tell us how to restore everything afterwards.

      --
      Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
    2. Re:Temporary Solution by TrueBuckeye · · Score: 4, Informative

      Keep in mind that this will disable thumbnail previews. Some have experienced problems opening any image file after unregistering this dll.

      It isn't a bad idea to do, but before you do it in an enterprise environment, be sure you test it and are ready for the calls it will cause.

      --
      Was that night on the marge of Lake LaBarge I cremated Sam McGee...
    3. Re:Temporary Solution by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      No problems here, other than I get a script error in "My Pictures"

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    4. Re:Temporary Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      regsvr32 /i shimgvw.dll

    5. Re:Temporary Solution by Utopia · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even better permanent solution. Turn ON DEP on all programs.

      From http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory /912840.mspx

      I have software DEP enabled on my system, does this help mitigate the vulnerability?
      Yes. Windows XP Service Pack 2 also includes software-enforced DEP that is designed to reduce exploits of exception handling mechanisms in Windows. By default software-enforced DEP applies to core operating system components and services. This vulnerability can be mitigated by enabling DEP for all programs on your computer.


    6. Re:Temporary Solution by Aidtopia · · Score: 1

      I unregistered the DLL as described, but I found that IE will still render a valid .WMF, so does unregistering really protect you?

    7. Re:Temporary Solution by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1
      so does unregistering really protect you?

      Not entirely. It blocks the WMF previewer from running, but if you use programs which are WMF-aware, you are still vulnerable through them.

      You may want to test FF or Opera for a while. ;-)

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    8. Re:Temporary Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several patches have already been released. ;)

    9. Re:Temporary Solution by pete-classic · · Score: 3, Informative

      A more useful link.

      -Peter

    10. Re:Temporary Solution by TropicalCoder · · Score: 0

      It doesn't appear to me that your attempt to unregister the DLL was effective. (ie: you didn't do it right, or it plain didn't work for some reason). I would not consider that you are safe now! When I unregistered, I immediatley discovered that Window's visualizer of faxes and images stopped working, and that I could not display valid .wmf files. (but Paint still worked to display jpegs).

    11. Re:Temporary Solution by screeble · · Score: 1
      This is sort of off your topic, but...

      While using XP, I visited the "Live Safety Center" site linked from the information page you provided. I was running Firefox and promptly got a "Whoops" (you're not a MS whore) error.

      Quite professional. Whoops? Microsoft Beta products frighten me.

      So, I returned with IE. Strangely enough, the page rendered properly in Firefox but had some broken images in IE. I installed the active-x scanner anyway. (Yikes!)

      Once you install the control you obtain two modes of scanning, Virus only and a Full scan. I was curious, so I chose the full scan mode.

      "Features" provided by the full scan:

      • Virus Scan
      • Disk Cleanup Scan
      • Disk Fragmentation Scan
      • Open Ports Scan
      • Computer Information

      The virus scanner took an eternity and searched EVERYTHING on the hard drive. The tool scanned a lot of dumb files and really seemed to bog down on folders with lots of zip files. (i.e. merged Mame roms.) There are no options to exclude directories.

      My computer became useless during the process and I got bored of staring at the extremely slow progress bar. So, I went and played Resident Evil 4 for a while. Even after finishing chapters 3 and 4, the virus scan still wasn't complete.

      After the scan completed, the program gave me a report telling me no viruses were found, I had 912 KB of temp files (all in downloaded program files and temporary internet files) and 21% and 6% fragmented hard drives.

      The scanner also told me I had no ports open to the internet. I don't know how or what is actually checked here because a 'netstat -a' showed me listening on lots of ports due to utorrent, miranda and firefox.

      I then checked all the boxes to allow the app to remove the temp files and defrag my hard drive(s). Again, my computer became next to impossible to use due to an overloaded hard drive. More RE4 was required.

      Hours later, everthing was complete. All in all, the "Live Safety Center" didn't really provide me any gains as I'm using non-MS solutions for security purposes. (freeav, sygate, adaware, ss&d)

      I would only recommend this tool for complete neophytes. The app provides a small level of security to be added to XP in a basic whack-a-mole process. (Quick, call all your relatives!)

      The only good thing that came out of this whole process for me were the defragmented drives. I'm somewhat absent-minded when it comes to defrag and only do so when I can't stand the file hunting anymore.

      I do have to admit that I'm slighhtly mortified by an active-x control with full admin rights on my box. It was really easy to allow this program to run. No wonder people get infected so easily.

    12. Re:Temporary Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well PreEmpt, http://www.pivx.com/HomeOffice/, by PivX solutions has protected against this exploit since the release of the MetaFile fix on 7 December 2005. And other, partial, solutions include updating your virus defs. The workarounds are incomplete because of the many different ways the MetaFile code can get processed.

    13. Re:Temporary Solution by atarione · · Score: 1

      THE DEP enable fix ONLY works if DEP is supported by Hardware...SOFTWARE ENFORCED DEP Dosn't protect against this exploit. http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2005/12/dep-contro versy.html

      --
      actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
    14. Re:Temporary Solution by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

      Acording to the SANS Internet Storm Center: "Even if you un-register the DLL, some programs may re-register it by invoking it (shimgvw.dll) directly."

    15. Re:Temporary Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does DEP really help? A post a little ways down says the problem isn't a buffer overflow but rather just the usage of a "legitimate" feature of the wmf file format.

  5. Well, Duh... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Funny

    When is a Windows flaw ever not extremely serious?

    1. Re:Well, Duh... by thaerin · · Score: 1

      "A flaw is a flaw, of course, of course, And no one can exploit the flaw, of course, Unless, of course, the flaw, of course, Is from the folks at Microsoft!"

      --
      If big boobed women work at Hooters do one legged women work at IHOP?
    2. Re:Well, Duh... by Belseth · · Score: 1, Insightful
      When is a Windows flaw ever not extremely serious?

      When you run Linux.

    3. Re:Well, Duh... by COMON$ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You must be one of those people who dont believe that the outside world affects you. What you do doesnt make much difference, it is the other 10 billion idiots out there, having linux at home and in your business doesnt help you much when 80% of the world is down.

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
    4. Re:Well, Duh... by Foofoobar · · Score: 5, Funny

      When is a Windows flaw ever not extremely serious?

      Oh wait... I know this joke...

      When it's a feature :)

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Well, Duh... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Mod this guy +99 insightful.

    6. Re:Well, Duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "A flaw is a flaw, of course, of course, And no one can exploit the flaw, of course, Unless, of course, the flaw, of course, Is from the folks at Microsoft!"

      Dude, u r old.

    7. Re:Well, Duh... by massysett · · Score: 1
      You must be one of those people who dont believe that the outside world affects you. What you do doesnt make much difference, it is the other 10 billion idiots out there, having linux at home and in your business doesnt help you much when 80% of the world is down.

      Absolutely. I remember when the SQL slammer worm came out. All of the Internet came to a crawl with all the traffic that was bouncing around. I needed to do online research but couldn't get any work done. Bank ATM machines weren't working.

      Sad that it's hard to escape MS flaws even if you don't personally use MS software.

    8. Re:Well, Duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dammit you stole my reply. I was gonna say 'the internet will still work (i got dialup and dont notice crawling paces) and if the ATMs go down it wont bother me' lol.

    9. Re:Well, Duh... by slash_noodle · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean "When it's a *undocumented* feature".

      Another brilliant idea from the chair-throwing department!

    10. Re:Well, Duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lacks rhythm and punch. Are you autistic?

    11. Re:Well, Duh... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Lacks intelligence and forethought. Are you Steve Ballmer?

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  6. at work on a M$ machine by Alchemar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Would someone tell me if the "just by visiting an infected site" link, is a link to an infected site, or an article about the infected sites?

    1. Re:at work on a M$ machine by tciny · · Score: 1

      Hovering your mouse over the link and having a look at the help bar will solve that mystery.

    2. Re:at work on a M$ machine by k0de · · Score: 1

      Call me a pedantic bastard, but I believe that's called the status bar.

      --
      I'm wrong and so are you.
    3. Re:at work on a M$ machine by J0nne · · Score: 4, Funny

      Call me a pedantic bastard...

      Pedantic Bastard!

      Is there anything else you want me to call you?

    4. Re:at work on a M$ machine by citizenr · · Score: 0

      >at work on a M$ machine

      Well, you are not supposed to read /. at work, and you are not supposed to use internet on M$ machine, double bad.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    5. Re:at work on a M$ machine by Imsdal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your sarcasm detector is broken. Please replace it immediately. Thanks!

    6. Re:at work on a M$ machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Is there anything else you want me to call you?

      You could call me a cab.

    7. Re:at work on a M$ machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright, you're a cab.

    8. Re:at work on a M$ machine by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Hah, it must run Windows! That explains it.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  7. Real easy (temp) fix. by Murphy+Murph · · Score: 3, Informative

    Start-->Run-->regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll

    You lose thumbnail view, and a few other (minor) built-in-Windows-picture-viewing tools break, but you use IrfanView anyway, don't you?

    --
    I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.
    1. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      Start-->Run-->regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll

      Good idea. But how do you "reactivate" this feature once a patch is released? I use Ifranview, but I also depend heavily on the thumbnail feature in explorer.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by discordja · · Score: 2, Informative

      just "regsvr32 shimgvw.dll" the DLL back in. the /u is merely a flag to unregister it.

      --
      I stole this .sig
    3. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      you do the same thing except without the /u part. [no argument registers it, /u unregisters it]

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    4. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by lolocaust · · Score: 1

      No, i use xnview, becuase Irfanview scrolls images very very slowly, and it hurts.

      --
      Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
    5. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by value_added · · Score: 5, Informative
      Start-->Run-->regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll

      Good idea. But how do you "reactivate" this feature once a patch is released? I use Ifranview, but I also depend heavily on the thumbnail feature in explorer.


      Sigh. I do wish people would offer some information with their click here/type-this instructions so people would understand WTF they're doing.
      regsvr32 - This command-line tool registers .dll files as command components in the registry.
       
      regsvr32 /u /s /n /i[:cmdline] dllname
       
      /u unregister server
      /s silent
      /i call DllInstall passing it an optional cmdline, when
              used with /u calls dll uninstall
      /n do not call DllRegisterServer; this option must be used
              with /i
      To register (or re-register) the dll:
      regsvr32 shimgvw.dll
      To run the command, you can use a console window (cmd.exe), or the Run dialog box (accessible from the Start Menu).
    6. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be an ass.

      Most people who would just type this in without doing EXACTLY what you did would not know what registering a DLL is. In fact I've never used this command, but if I were to use it, I'd sure as hell type it on a line without args to see if I got the simple help.

    7. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by Rytr23 · · Score: 1

      Well, I think he should be able to make a couple assumptions.. 1. anyone reading slashdot using some flavor of linux or mac or windows w/firefox opera etc is not going to care about his post and 2. Anyone reading slashdot being forced to use IE will probably be aware of what the command might do.. and if not, I am pretty sure they know what Google is.. (Granted there are exceptions however its still a good bet. My Mother would give me a blank stare should I ask her about /.)

      --
      So many injustices..so little time..
    8. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the info!

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    9. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Sigh. I do wish people would offer some information with their click here/type-this instructions

      Hey, that's why you're value added, and they're not.

    10. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      To run the command, you can use a console window (cmd.exe), or the Run dialog box (accessible from the Start Menu).
      what's a "console" and can I click on it?
    11. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You shouldn't always make assumptions.

      It will make an ASS out of U and ME.

    12. Re:Real easy (temp) fix. by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Cool

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
  8. Hmmm... by Fuzzypiggy · · Score: 1

    Another day, another flaw! Just another happy day in "paradise"! Call me when you wake up and smell the OSX/*nix brewing....

    --
    Attention: Common-sense and forethought have been retired from service, due to lack of demand. Thank you.
    1. Re:Hmmm... by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      So a flaw is discovered and if the user doesn't get the patch/workaround he'll potentially get infected. How does this differ from flaws in os x or other unixes?

    2. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because there is no patch yet and it affects 95% of the world's internet users?

    3. Re:Hmmm... by 4solarisinfo · · Score: 1

      If you really wanted to keep OSX/*nix secure, quit telling everyone to use it. Mac and the Nix crowd are less attacked because, well, it's not worth the effort. Why attack a few hundred users when you can go after hundreds of millions on the Windows platform? If everyone switches to NIX, more hackers will try to attack it at the same time the added users demand more functionality.

    4. Re:Hmmm... by Kijori · · Score: 1

      Will they really though? Even if the stakes got to 50%+ *nix penetration, would the hackers re-learn everything they've built up and attack annew? Virus writers and hackers have 10 years of largely unchanged Windows code to build on with Windows; they can mix and match ready-made vulnerabilities to create code for whatever attack is needed, or to distribute a new worm. Even if *nix environments weren't inherently more secure than Windows - which, thanks to a sensible permissions system, they are - the monopoly position would have to totally reverse in order to create a large-scale shift in attack targets. The fact is, many of these attacks are by untrained 'script kiddies' using programs from the internet. Change the environment and they can't operate at all any more.

    5. Re:Hmmm... by 4solarisinfo · · Score: 1

      attacks are by untrained 'script kiddies' using programs from the internet I think that this is a niave viewpoint of the world. People hack for reasons (money, fame, boredom), ease of ability being low on the list. *NIX may be inherantly more secure, and there huge base to build upon to attack windows, but if *NIX is the OS of choice, it will get attacked. Period.

    6. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typed like someone who's never tried to attack any operating system.

    7. Re:Hmmm... by carlislematthew · · Score: 1

      The script kiddies aren't the ones finding the flaws, they are just using the knowledge gained from others to attack people/computers. Those actually finding the flaws are intelligent, determined, and often misguided people that would have little trouble switching to a different OS. In fact, I'd bet that it would be a welcome challenge...

    8. Re:Hmmm... by 4solarisinfo · · Score: 1

      Just because the conversation outclassed and/or confused you is no reason to attack the quality of the typing.

  9. Sorry to say it got me by aka_big_wurm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I needed a bit of underground info(cd key) and went to the best site for that and with out thinking I used IE -- couldent have shut my browser down fast enough.

    Spent the next few hours removing all the junk that installed, I was lucky no root kits were installed.

    1. Re:Sorry to say it got me by J0nne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was lucky no root kits were installed

      How can you tell?

    2. Re:Sorry to say it got me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      I'm good!
      C:\>dir "root kit" /s
        Volume in drive C has no label.
        Volume Serial Number is D08F-66C3
      File Not Found
       
      C:\>
    3. Re:Sorry to say it got me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually the current picture view flaw is still able to be done through firefox and the like, its still gonna use the same mime setitng to open the pictures in picture and fax viewer, but apparently firefox will pop up somethigna sking if you want it to open, so seems you jsut got hit with the normal spam and junk

    4. Re:Sorry to say it got me by molnarcs · · Score: 4, Informative

      Never ever visit astalavista from windows, not even in Firefox - even using firefox, free-av catched ~10 viruses that tried to execute while only visiting the site, and searching for my lost cd key (well, lost CD to be precise, taht came with my TV card, with the only app that worked for me).

    5. Re:Sorry to say it got me by eweaver · · Score: 1


      http://www.asta-killer.com/ is a lot better virii wise, although some of the sites it links to in results are shady as all hell.

    6. Re:Sorry to say it got me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disable java and javascript (or use NoScript) before going there.

    7. Re:Sorry to say it got me by fbjon · · Score: 1
      That sounds too incredible to be true. What kind of viruses did it catch exactly, and how would they attack? You mean that, when the browser connected to the site, you got a whole boatload of hits in the firewall, or that free-av actually caught attemted uses of known exploits in Firefox?

      Also, is that free-av any good, i.e non-obtuse?

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    8. Re:Sorry to say it got me by molnarcs · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't know how it did that... It might have been when I downloaded the prog, although the prog itself wasn't infected. Temporary files stored if firefox cache might be another possibility. Free-av is ... well free - as in no activation code, no time limit, etc. You have to update manually, but that's the only drawback. Otherwise it is very light on resources, and it never ever failed me (it is very effective). Works on very old machines (I use it in a small computer lab I administer, on some celeron 300s with 64Mb ram) without even feeling that it's there. It does one thing, and it does it well: it finds viruses and some other malware. So yeah, it's nice I think, compared to the alternatives (if Symantec's products were my only choice, I'd rather have viruses lol :) For firewall, I use WinXP's SP2 default firewall (big relief compared to the bloat some other firewalls have become) which is again - perfect for a desktop machine. This combo works well for me (free-av + default fw) - but then, I rarely use windows (usually 50% time spent in win is updating the system, the rest is testing out software for the lab I administer).

    9. Re:Sorry to say it got me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got hit by this last week. Aparently some porn sites do not like being crawled looking for free videos :-)

      Here is the site that infected my machine (spaces added to stop anyone from clicking accidentally):

      h t t p : / / h o r n y m o s q u i t o . c o m / v i d - m a t u r e - 5 0 5 / s e x - b d . h t m

      This thing took over my machine hard! First thing I did was disconnect it from the network since something was making network requests like mad. I cleaned up my machine in about an hour, but still reformatted just to be safe.

      Now I browse for porn on my Mac ... there is a switch commercial waiting to happen :-)

    10. Re:Sorry to say it got me by (H)olyGeekboy · · Score: 1

      I was lucky no root kits were installed.

      You'll want to look again. I was running NAV with 6-day-old defs, MS Antispyware, hardware firewall, and latest patches, and I still got hit. Visited a sketchy site, immediately got 15 popped windows. In the 10 seconds it took for me to realize what was going on and pull the cable, this is what I got:

      Background set to flashing HTML that said YOUR COMPUTER IS INFECTED
      MS Antispyware, Spybot S&D, and AdAware (I run all 3) all disabled
      Task Manager diasbled
      Computer Management disabled
      Cookie, autocomplete, and history settings from IE logged and uploaded to specific IP address (fortunately I mainly use The Fox, so minimal impact, but it did snag my hotmail password)
      Keylogger installed
      Two faux anti-spyware apps installed themselves and ran, each promising to themove the "infection" for $40 if I purchased right there

      It took 3 hours to clean it initially but there were keyloggers in three other lcoations that I found later.

  10. Solution by TheJavaGuy · · Score: 0

    Get another browser, such as Opera of Firefox.

    --
    Opera Watch - An Opera browser blog.
    1. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Get another browser, such as Opera of Firefox.

      This branding is getting out of hand. Now the Mozilla foundation made an opera about Firefox?

    2. Re:Solution by KilobyteKnight · · Score: 5, Informative
      Get another browser, such as Opera of Firefox.

      This is not an ie flaw. This is a Windows flaw. You can still be affected with other browsers, you just have to try harder. Anything using the Windows DLL that does the WMF processing will be affected.
      --
      When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
    3. Re:Solution by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Opera of Firefox

      :)

    4. Re:Solution by blowdart · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Except FireFox 1.0 also opens the files automatically, by default, in the vunerable application.

      In 1.5 the behaviour changed, and for some reason .WMF was associated in FireFox with Windows Media Player. So 1.5 is secure against this flaw, by lucky accident.

    5. Re:Solution by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Kiww de wabbit!
      Kiww de wabbit!
      ...
      Oh Bwunhiwda, your so wovewy..
      Yes I know it, I can't help it...

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:Solution by oztiks · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for the theatrical version to hit broadway "fathom of the firefox"

    7. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What part of Get another browser don't you understand?

    8. Re:Solution by Himring · · Score: 1

      You can still be affected with other browsers, you just have to try harder.

      I think you just made his argument....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    9. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the final solution is to:

      (1) Avoid all but trusted websites (Google, Slashdot, etc)
      (2) Stop using Outlook just in case.

      I, for one, am taking both of these measures.

      Stupid Windows!

    10. Re:Solution by KilobyteKnight · · Score: 1
      You can still be affected with other browsers, you just have to try harder.
      I think you just made his argument....
      Only if his argument is that using another browser on Windows is lulling oneself into a false sense of security. Internet Explorer is only one of many components of Windows that are affected. If google desktop indexes your browser cache, for example, you're still screwed. If your browser uses Windows Media Player to automatically display various files, you're still screwed. If you save the file and view it as a thumbnail, you're screwed. If you get it sent to you in email and you open it in Outlook, you're screwed.

      This goes way beyond "use another browser".
      --
      When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
    11. Re:Solution by 9Nails · · Score: 1

      I find broadway is too expensive for my family of four. I know the experience is cheapened, but I'm wating for the big screen trilogy to hit. Firefox: A new hope, Firefox: Novell's Revenge, Firefox: The Rise of Linux.

    12. Re:Solution by oztiks · · Score: 1

      You forgot the most important one "Firefox: the wrath of microsoft" and lets not forget "Firefox: the undiscovered exploit"

    13. Re:Solution by Himring · · Score: 1

      Dunno. Don't really feel like arguing today, but I used to spend time researching each "this flaw affects firefox too just like ie" argument to find that, this simply wasn't the case. Sure, if you stand on this foot and twirl this hoola hoop and click here you can run an exploit in ff, but ie is sooo much easier to run a bad thang.

      I've not looked into this flaw and won't. I'm sure I'll find the same thing. Yes, if ff is set to open MP or OE or any MS app that's just as crappy (yes, I'm biased) as ie then you'll get the same flaw. And if you smear your dick with some herpes after you fuck a girl who doesn't have it, then you'll get herpes just as if she did -- or, you can cut out the middleman and fuck the girl who has herpes outright (ie being the girl with herpes).

      Rant? Sure, otherwise, I defer to my article on eurohacker:

      http://eurohacker.mine.nu/index.php?show_article=i 004a006

      Love, peace and chicken grease....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    14. Re:Solution by dwdm · · Score: 1

      How would you know if you're already infected?

  11. Gotta love it... by Chmcginn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:
    Reavey encouraged users to update their anti-virus software, ensure all Windows security patches are installed, avoid visiting unfamiliar Web sites, and refrain from clicking on links that arrive via e-mail or instant message.
    (Emphasis added by me) Three good pieces of advice, and... I mean, seriously, avoid visiting unfamiliar web sites? That's like saying "There's been lots of credit card scams recently, you shouldn't go into any store you haven't been to before."
    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:Gotta love it... by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Cut the writer some slack, this article is a huge improvement over most security reporting.

      For example:
      A previously unknown flaw in Microsoft Corp.'s Windows

      This alone is better than most stories that refer to generic "security problems" without saying they only apply to windows.

      Mac and Linux computer users are not at risk with this attack, even if their computers run Microsoft programs [like IE] and [Windows users of] Firefox and Opera, can still get their PCs infected if they agree to download a file.

      This is good reporting too, it shows that it's not an application vuln alone but something system level that is made worse by flaws in applications.

      I'd say this guy is pretty clueful and overall it's about the best computer security reporting we can hope for from mainstream newspapers.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Gotta love it... by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
      Cut the writer some slack, this article is a huge improvement over most security reporting.
      I will give you that, I suppose we should be happy he didn't start ranting about hackers somewhere in there...
      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    3. Re:Gotta love it... by VGR · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's extraordinary reporting.

      I've been waiting years for the mainstream media to stop using the term "computer virus" to describe Windows viruses.

      Since regular people rely on mainstream media for information, it's about damn time they started pointing out that it is the fault of Windows, not the result of simply having a computer.

      I don't expect the media to start reading Mac or Linux or BSD commercials. But I do expect them to accurately describe where the blame lies.

      If more consumers were aware of the crap OS they're forced to buy when they get a PC, things might just start to change.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go away.
    4. Re:Gotta love it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say this guy is pretty clueful and overall it's about the best computer security reporting we can hope for from mainstream newspapers. ,,,and that may cost him his job...

  12. Whew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It's a good thing most savvy Windows users know not to ever visit web site links they don't trust. Hey look - it's a web site about goats! Neat!

    1. Re:Whew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      savvy Windows users

      what.

  13. Yet another reason to buy a Mac by Enrique1218 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Sorry, it is a tradition.

    --
    You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
    1. Re:Yet another reason to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or much cheaper just to use your current PC but with a better OS than Windows.

      There is no reason to waste massive dollars just to get a fancy logo.

    2. Re:Yet another reason to buy a Mac by Hymer · · Score: 1

      Why not ? I prefere to put my $$$ in Apple's pocket than in M$ and the only way I can be sure that none of my money ends in M$ pocket is to buy a PowerBook...
      ...or does SUN make SPARC laptops ??

    3. Re:Yet another reason to buy a Mac by 4solarisinfo · · Score: 1

      1) Never heard of Linux eh? 2) Yes, Sun does make a laptop

    4. Re:Yet another reason to buy a Mac by Hymer · · Score: 1

      "1) Never heard of Linux eh?" Yes I have, I am using it on my current laptop...
      Have you tried to buy a laptop without an OS ?
      2) Yes, Sun does make a laptop Excellent, thx. I am looking for a new laptop... maybe it is a good alternative.

  14. Stupid submit button.... by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

    Just "avoid visiting unfamiliar Web sites" was supposed to be bolded. D'oh.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
  15. Is it IE or Windows? by Thaelon · · Score: 0

    TFA says "...Windows users who eschew Internet Explorer in favor of alternative Web browsers, such as older versions of Firefox and Opera, can still get their PCs infected if they agree to download a file from a site taking advantage of the flaw."

    So is it IE or Windows that is home to the vulnerability?

    --

    Question everything

    1. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its in one of Windows standard libraries - but using IE makes it more dangerous.

      Using Firefox with Adblock installed one can stop all files of this dangerous type by adblocking them until a patch is available.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    2. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      And what type would that be, exactly?

      --

      Question everything

    3. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by WhoDey · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an exploit of functionality built into Windows (it allows you to view thumbnails in folders full of pictures, for example). The reason it's more dangerous with IE is that IE by default will open these files, while Firefox (or some other browsers) will give you the good old Open/Save box first. If you open at this point, you're still screwed.

    4. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Secrity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Windows has the vulnerability. Web browsers and some versions of Outlook are the means that the malicious .wmf files are introduced into the operating system. Firefox and Opera can also be used to introduce malicious .wmf files, the difference is that Firefox and Opera ASK the user for confirmation before they download the files. I understand that newer versions of Firefox are misconfigured and do not handle .wmf files as Microsoft intended, this may be a case where a configuration error is actually a security feature.

    5. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      *.wmf would be my guess...

      --
      -
    6. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > So is it IE or Windows that is home to the vulnerability?

      We covered that the other day in the original article on the vulnerability. (This article is about how more sites are now exploiting it...) The vulnerability is in the picture viewer app/library that is included with Windows out of the box and is the default way to view certain kinds of images, including .wmf images.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    7. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually you don't even have to open it. If you save to disk and then just look at the directory in windows explorer you will get infected since windows explorer will process the file.

    8. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what type would that be, exactly?

      Its Windows we are talking about, so I would go with the *.* type.

    9. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by kalbzayn · · Score: 1

      I prefer to eschew IE for the current version of Firefox. Why would I eschew anything and then pick an old version of the alternative? So since I am not using an older version of Firefox, should I be ok?

    10. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by thue · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using Firefox with Adblock installed one can stop all files of this dangerous type by adblocking them until a patch is available.

      This comment says that you can't block it (ny blocking a file extention as is done in adblock), as Windows will execute the file as a .wmf even if the file is renamed to .jpg .

    11. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      *.wmf would be my guess...

      A good start, but it turns out a wmf file renamed to (for instance) .jpg will still invoke the wmf processor.

    12. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by JazzCrazed · · Score: 1

      Firefox 1.5 as previously noted by default associates WMF files with Windows Media Player, which is functionally wrong but fortunately prevents WMFs from just opening straight out (you'd have to save it locally, and then open it manually from Explorer).

      I just tried renaming a WMF file I had created as a JPG and loading it in Firefox 1.5, and nothing was rendered; it just showed the file's location on my local hard drive.

      I then created a small HTML file with an img tag that tries to load the renamed WMF file. I get a broken graphic pic.

      Finally, renaming the file back to WMF, and readjusting the img tag to load the WMF resulted similarly in a broken graphic.

      So from these minor tests, I'd say FF 1.5 is pretty safe. Unless there's a method of loading a WMF that I'm ignoring.

    13. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Using Firefox with Adblock installed one can stop all files of this dangerous type by adblocking them until a patch is available.

      You'll need to block all file types that have a registry entry HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.[extension goes here]\PerceivedType = "image", because once the file gets as far as the Windows DLL that is used to display them, it ignores type information and uses a magic number to identify them.

      That's a lot of file types, BTW.

    14. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      Hang on, a moment. I thought NTFS did not support application metadata... Are you implying that the .wmf interpreter trys to load EVERY file it happens across?

      --
      -
    15. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Are you implying that the .wmf interpreter trys to load EVERY file it happens across?

      No. But according to TFA, renaming it to jpg and gif to mask it will still get the wmf DLL to process it. I don't know why, but I guess that when it fails to be a JPG, before giving up the WMF processor is given a shot at it.

    16. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1
      *sigh*

      I rename a .xls to .doc and Word has no idea what is going on. I rename a .wmf to .jpg and windows automagically recognizes the file type. Its bad enough trying to arbitrate every damn media player wanting to co-opt dozens of filetypes (most I have never seen before), but now I have .dlls going behind my back and making decisions for me.

      A consistant user interface is all I ask. IS IT THAT HARD?!?!

      --
      -
    17. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      you'd have to save it locally, and then open it manually from Explorer

      Close, but no cigar. You have to browse to it in Explorer. The thumbnail creator will do all the work for you.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    18. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Hymer · · Score: 1

      A consistant user interface is all I ask. IS IT THAT HARD?!?! That seems like something I've recently seen in a discussion about how bad and inconsistent Linux GUI's are...

    19. Re:Is it IE or Windows? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1
      Neither MicroSoft, nor Apple, nor the slavering hordes of *nix developers are consistant in their UI.

      But thanks for putting words in my mouth, anyway.

      --
      -
  16. This week's Windows security hole article... by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is brought to you by http://update.microsoft.com/

    Programming code embedded in these pages would install a program that warned victims their machines were infested with spyware, then prompted them to pay $40 to remove the supposed pests.

    Where do you send the money? And they aren't afraid of getting caught?

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:This week's Windows security hole article... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Where do you send the money? And they aren't afraid of getting caught?

      My understanding is that this is anti-spyware software that is psuedo-legitimate, that is willing to pay others to get users to install it. It might come pre-installed on some computers, for example. It then runs periodically and asks for money to activate all the features. All of this is legal (if shady).

      The deal is that crackers are either auto-installing it via this exploit and a cracked web server, or doing so on a legitimate web server. Thus the money goes to a "legal" software company. Whether it can be traced further than that, to the people that companies pays per install (who have broken the law) is the real question.

    2. Re:This week's Windows security hole article... by User+956 · · Score: 1

      "Programming code embedded in these pages would install a program ... then prompted them to pay $40 to remove the supposed pests." Where do you send the money? And they aren't afraid of getting caught?

      Dude, the Homeland Security budget for this stuff is $16 million dollars. Total. For the whole year. That's "Million" with an "M". No they're not worried about getting caught.

      --
      The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    3. Re:This week's Windows security hole article... by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      Here is the very nice company behind it all: http://www.spyaxe.com/

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
  17. Come on, "editors", let's try to edit properly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    scottott wrote to mention a Washington Post article with the news that the security hole we mentioned on Wednesday has widened. Computers can now be infected just by visiting infected web sites, or looking at images in the preview panel of older versions of Outlook.

    There are two major factual errors here. One, the security hole has not "widened" - the scope of exposure is exactly what we read about Wednesday. Using shimgvw.dll to view a specially constructed WMF file results in system compromise (web site viewing of malicious WMF, previewing, opening w/MS picture and fax viewer, etc). The hole is exactly the same - exposure has increased, but the hole has not widened. Two: the web sites are not infected, they are malicious. The system is infected after visiting a malicious web site.

    The full (well, as full as it is now) MS advisory is here. I'm not very pleased with how MS is handling this at all, but that does not excuse this shoddy "journalism". How hard is it to state facts correctly? All you had to do was change a few words, and it would have read much more accurately:

    scottott wrote to mention a Washington Post article with the news that the security hole we mentioned on Wednesday is now affecting many more users. Computers can now be infected just by visiting malicious web sites, which are now rapidly increasing in number, or looking at images in the preview panel of older versions of Outlook.

    For the last sentence, note that I sent mysefl WMF files win Outlook 2000 and 2003 while running Sysinternals process explorer and never saw shimgvw.dll called. Opening a WMF attachment called it, but not previewing, so there might be three errors, but I didn't test all versions that way, so I don't know...

    1. Re:Come on, "editors", let's try to edit properly by knghtrider · · Score: 1

      ...looking at images in the preview panel of older versions of Outlook.

      For the last sentence, note that I sent mysefl WMF files win Outlook 2000 and 2003 while running Sysinternals process explorer and never saw shimgvw.dll called. Opening a WMF attachment called it, but not previewing, so there might be three errors, but I didn't test all versions that way, so I don't know...

      Outook versions produced pre-Outlook 2000 (I think it even takes Office 2000 SP2) are vulnerable, as well as version 5 of Outlook Express and below (Again, I *think* it's necessary to have patched IE 5). I always turn OFF preview pane on any Outlook installation I do.

      OWA really concerns me--many companies use this for remote access to e-mail; this could turn really ugly really fast. Remember Melissa and I Love You? MS needs to patch this NOW. I would hope they've been burning the midnight oil trying to resolve this issue, but it's Friday now, and they still are putting out a positive spin.

      --
      In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
    2. Re:Come on, "editors", let's try to edit properly by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      One, the security hole has not "widened" - the scope of exposure is exactly what we read about Wednesday....The hole is exactly the same - exposure has increased, but the hole has not widened.

      Yeah, even though everybody's road is now pockmarked with potholes, because all the potholes are merely different instances of the same class, there is no greater risk for anyone? TFA wording is good: there has been a demonstrable huge increase in the "security hole", in the sense that most people interpret such words. Your risk is now way higher than it was on Wednesday, people.

      BTW, since this 4KB+ buffer overflow "hole" in the core of all Windows OS since Win98 can act as a bootstrap to download any damn kind of zombie software, it is an axle-breaker of a pothole. Especially as antivirus and firewall protections against all these instances don't exist.

      Two: the web sites are not infected, they are malicious. The system is infected after visiting a malicious web site.

      That is called "splitting hairs".

      And actually the untold number of hobby web sites where the same computer is used for both browsing and as a server are susceptible to infection and being hijacked by this method. So your second point is not valid in all cases. And of course there are several other ways in which web sites of good intent can be hijacked and infected.

  18. What's the real lesson here? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Those of us who use free operating systems shouldn't be too complacent. This exploit is serious because the WMF rendering library has full access to the user's data, and (at least on a 'home' setup where it's a single-user machine) access to the whole PC.

    But it was really just bad luck that the bug happened to be found in the Windows WMF library and not, say, its Unix/X11 equivalent. Or libpng, or zlib, or whatever. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. All software has bugs, and even if the quality of the free libraries is ten times higher (unlikely) there will still be plenty of memory tramplings and buffer overruns.

    So, when the next vulnerability is found in a commonly used Unix library, will we be in any better position? Not really. Still the library is linked into the application and runs in the application's address space. It has access to all the files the app does, and traditionally on Unix that means everything the user has access too. Your email application may only need to read ~/.mail_settings and connect via IMAP to some host, but it runs with permission to overwrite any file owned by you and connect on any TCP/IP port it wants.

    Why does the WMF rendering code need to run with any more permissions than: read a block of memory with the WMF file, and write a block with the rendered bitmap? (Or perhaps make display / GDI calls, if performance is a concern.)

    What support is there in Unix operating systems for running common library code with only the privileges it needs? As far as I know Linux has no simple way to run a dynamically-linked library (.so file) in its own address space or without permitting it to make system calls. So when the next exploit is found in a common Linux library - and it will be found - the situation will be just as embarassing.

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    1. Re:What's the real lesson here? by oztiks · · Score: 1

      What support is there in Unix operating systems for running common library code with only the privileges it needs? As far as I know Linux has no simple way to run a dynamically-linked library (.so file) in its own address space or without permitting it to make system calls. So when the next exploit is found in a common Linux library - and it will be found - the situation will be just as embarassing.



      They are out there for example the bluetooth exploit in linux but the thing is though that linux also has systrace and systems that can be easily put in-place to stop these issues easily. Whereas MS doesnt. Its been over 48hrs and they still can't produce a patch.

      The issue isnt "it can happen to linux so we shouldnt jinx ourselves" the real issue is "ms has problems writing patches that retain backward compatability"
    2. Re:What's the real lesson here? by jilles · · Score: 1

      The real lesson is of course that once again mr buffer overflow strikes (don't implement anything in C if it needs to be secure). This time it's on windows. On windows it is bad because a lot of people use windows so any bug presents hackers with a huge opportunity to affect millions. On linux, buffer overflows occur just as often (or more often according to some sources) but are much harder to exploit because of the diversity in linux installations. Essentially it is pretty hard to find a meaningful number of linux computers with the same unpatched bufferoverflows, finding linux computers with unpatched bufferoverflows in general is easy. Linux offers great security through obscurity. The linux desktop (if there even is such a thing) is so rare and likely to be different from most other linux desktops that it is unlikely to ever be the victim of a coordinated effort to exploit a buffer overflow. It would basically require a large amount of linux users running the same version of the same software compiled with the same compiler for the same plaform. The total amount of linux desktop users of course is hardly interesting to begin with.

      --

      Jilles
    3. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, when the next vulnerability is found in a commonly used Unix library, will we be in any better position? Not really

      I would have to disagree. Given MS's track record on providing patches in a timely fashion Vs. the Linux community providing patches in a timely fashion. This is #2 on my list of reasons to run Linux. 3 days Vs. 6 months... the support in the Linux community is much better.

    4. Re:What's the real lesson here? by molnarcs · · Score: 1

      Well, for one thing (yeah, this is a boring argument, but still holds true) most linux distroes actively discourage accounts with elevated privileges for day to day use. Take for instance (K)Ubuntu, that actively discourages using the root account. System wide infection is impossible, the problem is localized for the user's home directory. Better still, Average Joe, who is most likely to get infected, would not need execute privileges in his/her home directory at all, so /home can be mounted noexec for instance, without affecting day to day use of his/her computer. In this case, no remote execution vulnerability will have the chance of infecting even the home directory. I don't see how a remote exec vulnerability in a core functionality of the OS like libpng (which is a core functionality for desktop users) could work in this case... The wmf vuln. relies on downloading files and running them on the puter - how could that work in the kubuntu scenario? Running sg. from /tmp perhaps? So I see more difficulty for such exploits in *nix based systems, but I can be easily convinced to the contrary...

    5. Re:What's the real lesson here? by G+Money · · Score: 4, Informative

      What we have in the Linux and BSD world at least are very good Mandatory Access Control systems that help mitigate some of this risk. In the Linux world you can use SELinux (shudder) or use something even easier, AppArmor. If you properly profile an application to determine what it should and should not do you'll be in much better shape when new exploits like this come out. It won't save you from everything since they can still get access to anything the program could legitimately access in the first place but it's much more efficient than setting up sandboxes for everything like chroot and much more secure.

    6. Re:What's the real lesson here? by julesh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why does the WMF rendering code need to run with any more permissions than: read a block of memory with the WMF file, and write a block with the rendered bitmap? (Or perhaps make display / GDI calls, if performance is a concern.)

      Because the WMF rendering code *is* GDI. Seriously - a WMF file is basically a list of GDI functions to call in order, along with the parameters to pass to them.

    7. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the reason why many people are advocating protection in the hardware itself. As a software developer I find that concept annoying because technically it's possible to create good secure software but it's extremely hard even for the best programmers when dealing with non-trival software.

      "Secure" programming languages don't really solve the problem either because the language environment itself is often non-trival.

    8. Re:What's the real lesson here? by pboulang · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So when the next exploit is found in a common Linux library - and it will be found - the situation will be just as embarassing.
      I agreed with you right up until this last sentence. Were this exploit to be found on a common Linux Library, you would see an article with a link to a patch with directions on how to install it. The embarassing part isn't that there is a bug, but that a known specific bug with such a HUGE impact takes so long to be fixed from Redmond.

      Most embarassing is that while users wait for a patch, MS doesn't even suggest useful workarounds.. see the KB article "Suggested Actions" section, which says "exercise caution when opening email"? huh?

      Of course, if you have Microsoft Onecare, you may already have a fix. I've never even heard of Onecare until today.

      --

      This comment is guaranteed*

      *not guaranteed

    9. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Actually, until you bring in the hardened Linux stuff, Windows actually has *better* default security capabilities than Linux.

      The problem is one of software culture. Windows has a software culture of full access, whereas Linux/Unix has a software culture of limited access. Even though Microsoft added much better security capabilities, the Windows culture doesn't take advantage of them. In practice, that means:
      * The "owner" is Admin, by default. The separation between users and administrators is missing, by default. This is true even in the F500 company where I work.
      * Software developers assume they have full access, sometimes even at runtime. Even some Microsoft software has this problem.
      * Neat Stuff Rules! Let's face it, Windows is able to do some neat stuff, but the security implications of that neat stuff are frightening.

      Now let's look at the Windows exploits historically. For a long time, Windows exploits were merely using the published APIs in "novel fashions." In other words, exploiting features, not bugs. Finding and exploiting bugs in Windows is actually comparatively recent. But with either, the tight integration that enables "Neat Stuff" increases the range of any exploit found. From another perspective, one route to security is compartmentalization, which is *difficult* to combine with tight integration.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    10. Re:What's the real lesson here? by cortana · · Score: 2, Informative

      The last time there were flaws in zlib and libpng, security was an apt-get upgrade away. Compare that to Windows where most software seems to have its own private copy of those DLLs.

      Microsoft released patches for the libpng that came with Windows, along with a tool that scanned your hard drive, looking for copies of libpng embedded in third party executables and libraries. Unfortunatly, it would basically only say: "you {have,have not} installed Microsoft's patch for this issue; furthermore you have third party programs on your system, please install any updates available from your vendors". I can't remember a single program that released an update merely to fix the libpng flaw; in all probability every Windows machine with some kind of third party software on it probably still has dozens of copies of libpng and zlib lurking around on it.

      Your latter points are interesting. What you are describing is a mandatory access control security scheme, like the one implemented by SELinux. This has yet to catch on because it's bloody complicated--and I believe SELinux only restricts what an application can do based on the 'tag' that its executable recieves; I don't know if SELinux policies can grant permissions to a process based on the shared library that is executing at any one time, or even how SELinux policies interact with interpreters like sh, perl, python, and so on.

    11. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1
      What we have in the Linux and BSD world at least are very good Mandatory Access Control systems that help mitigate some of this risk.

      These things won't really help until they are set up by default and don't get in the way of normal functionality. The Fedora guys are doing excellent work trying to push SELinux into the default installation, and perhaps in five years' time we will laugh at the days when a web browser needed to run with write access to all the user's files. But it's not there yet; still the vast majority of Linux systems run with only the crude root/ordinary user distinction. And when your personal data (that is, important data) are owned by your ordinary non-root account, that's not much consolation.

      The other comment mentioning PLASH was spot on, please mod it up! If PLASH's GUI extension for loading and saving files were integrated with a desktop environment like GNOME or ROX, it would deal with 80% of the problem of running apps with lower privilege.
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    12. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      There is protection in the hardware; every Intel processor since the 80386 has rather sophisticated address space partitioning so one bit of code can be completely prevented from trampling on anything else. The problem is in getting the software to use it. At the moment if you want separate address spaces you must create separate processes. It's good that processes cannot fight each other, but it would be nice to have a more lightweight mechanism whereby library code runs in the same process somehow but with control over what address space it can write. I don't know enough about the Intel memory protection architecture to say whether this is feasible.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    13. Re:What's the real lesson here? by NullProg · · Score: 1

      Actually, until you bring in the hardened Linux stuff, Windows actually has *better* default security capabilities than Linux.

      Eh? A challenge then.

      You put your unpatched XP on the internet and I will attached my unpatched SuSE 9. The fist one pawned wins. Let the games begin.

      Enjoy,

      --
      It's just the normal noises in here.
    14. Re:What's the real lesson here? by NullProg · · Score: 4, Informative

      The real lesson is of course that once again mr buffer overflow strikes (don't implement anything in C if it needs to be secure). This time it's on windows.

      This isn't a buffer overflow, its a design flaw that allows metafiles to register callbacks with GDI32. And I fail to see what language a programmer uses has anything to do with it. Bad programmers are bad programmers reguardless of the language used. To the CPU its all instructions, it doesn't care if its issued by the crt or the java_vm.

      Enjoy,

      --
      It's just the normal noises in here.
    15. Re:What's the real lesson here? by TheChromaticOrb · · Score: 1
      But it was really just bad luck that the bug happened to be found in the Windows WMF library and not, say, its Unix/X11 equivalent. Or libpng, or zlib, or whatever. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. All software has bugs, and even if the quality of the free libraries is ten times higher (unlikely) there will still be plenty of memory tramplings and buffer overruns.

      So, when the next vulnerability is found in a commonly used Unix library, will we be in any better position?

      Yes, we will, ever so slightly. The side effect of having a zillion distribuitions is making it near imposible to exploit a library vulnerability (other than crashing the application using the library), due to the fact that, for example, libz.so binary is different on every distribution. I stress it's not a design feature (even if you use Gentoo), it's a side effect, but one that works to the user's advantage.
      --
      Note to self: get a sig.
    16. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What we have in the Linux and BSD world at least are very good Mandatory Access Control systems that help mitigate some of this risk.

      No you don't. There's no way to run Firefox or a graphical mailer program with in a MAC enviornment under Linux. It's just impossible right now.

    17. Re:What's the real lesson here? by oztiks · · Score: 1

      Actually, until you bring in the hardened Linux stuff, Windows actually has *better* default security capabilities than Linux.

      Yeah sorry i cant quite swallow that, its much harder to trick linux vm to get it do stuff that otherwise is much simpler to achieve in windows. Granted over the past 2 years microsoft has taken this a bit more seriously and it has improved allot but it isnt comparable to linux for alot of reasons.

      Windows 2003 Server is much neater then previous versions and you switch on what you need. With Linux this is totally distro depandant, you still get the fluffy brand distros that enable everything under the sun but if you use a serious distribution say debian that you have to select the type of environment you want the box to be (workstation or server) then install the packages you only need then this isnt the case at all.

      At the end of the day though you cant compare the two really in the security world, theres too many variables to consider with linux (kernel makes and versions and patchlevels) and distributions with various application sets whereas with windows is either on or off.

    18. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I said capabilities, not practice. Read the rest of my post, where I go on to say that the Windows Culture pretty much completely undermines those capabilities. On the other hand, the Linux/Unix culture respects its security capabilities, or at least *mostly* has, so far. One thing I fear about Linux getting more popular is that it might bring some security-unconscious Windows developers over, and they may do some damage before getting a clue. I already fear/dislike run-as-root Linux distros.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    19. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Creechur · · Score: 1
      So, when the next vulnerability is found in a commonly used Unix library, will we be in any better position?

      Yes, we will be. With source comes flexibility, such as the ability to use PIE / SSP when building code. Even if no major distros like RedHat pick up such technologies, individuals still have the choice to use them if they wish.

      Such things aren't perfect by any means, but they greatly raise the bar for potential intruders. Combine that with the relatively low payoff of compromising a particular flavor/version/build of Linux software (there's far more diversity in the Linux world, thus a far fewer percentage of users that any one exploit applies to), and it's unlikely that anyone will even bother trying to target you anyway.

      You make good points otherwise - on most desktops, a user-level compromise can be just as deadly as a system-level compromise, and we shouldn't think that *nix is immune from attack or that these things won't affect us. But there is an inherent difference between the options available to security-conscious users on Linux vs. Windows.

    20. Re:What's the real lesson here? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      Code could still run that ereases all the files in the user's home directory. To a normal user thats just as bad as the system getting trashed because they just lost EVERYTHING they care about.

    21. Re:What's the real lesson here? by carlislematthew · · Score: 1
      All software has bugs, and even if the quality of the free libraries is ten times higher (unlikely) there will still be plenty of memory tramplings and buffer overruns.

      One of the things about Open Source code that *may* make it of a higher quality is that it can be peer-reviewed. If you, as a user, want to make sure that Apache is safe you can go through the source code. Of course, most people would never do this and we shouldn't expect them to. However, if a large company like IBM says "hey, let's use Apache", it has the resources to go through the code, fix it (if needed), and then submit the patches back to the project. This benefits everyone.

      That's the theory anyway...

    22. Re:What's the real lesson here? by mugnyte · · Score: 1


      Sir, you completely fail to realize that OSS has *any number* of eyes on the code, whereas MS has a fixed number.

      In the event an exploit on open source software, the number of examinations to target the flawed code would jump and a patch would form much more quickly. I think this situation is fair game for the argument of open code. The maddening concept is this fix to this is probably very simple for most of the C coders reading here. shimgvw.dll is probably an embarrassing pile, filled with backward compatability hacks anyway.

      Instead, it's been 3 days sir. I suspect it will be a while longer until all the beging hands at the castle are thrown a fix, until they have to return again.

    23. Re:What's the real lesson here? by clambake · · Score: 1

      What support is there in Unix operating systems for running common library code with only the privileges it needs?

      SE Linux can do exactly this. It can be as granular as saying that it can read only from file A but only write to socket C, or as open as a windows box... just got to configure ti right.

    24. Re:What's the real lesson here? by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 1

      This isn't a buffer overflow, its a design flaw that allows metafiles to register callbacks with GDI32. And I fail to see what language a programmer uses has anything to do with it. Bad programmers are bad programmers reguardless of the language used. To the CPU its all instructions, it doesn't care if its issued by the crt or the java_vm.

      Any programming language that implements bounds checking should be immune to buffer overflows. C is not one of those languages, Java is.

    25. Re:What's the real lesson here? by carlislematthew · · Score: 1
      Its been over 48hrs and they still can't produce a patch.

      My guess would be that they HAVE produced a patch and they did it very quickly indeed. However, there is a balance of risks they need to consider. On the one hand, releasing too quickly (without adequate regression testing) risks breaking a whole bunch of other stuff. On the other hand, releasing too slow risks infections, bad press, etc.

      When you have such a huge OS and huge installed-base, you have to be really careful.

    26. Re:What's the real lesson here? by kindbud · · Score: 1

      But it was really just bad luck that the bug happened to be found in the Windows WMF library and not, say, its Unix/X11 equivalent. Or libpng, or zlib, or whatever.

      And what would the Unix/X11 equivalent be? WMF is not a image format, it's a list of procedures to call and the parameters to pass them. On Unix/X11 the equivalent might be perl. How many Unix systems allow arbitrary perl code to execute automatically upon loading a file embedded in a web page? Which one are you using? Remind me to steer clear of it.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    27. Re:What's the real lesson here? by G+Money · · Score: 1

      Sure you can, I'm running firefox right now in an AppArmor environment. Setting up SELinux is quite a bit more difficult but not impossible. I have to admit that I'm an AppArmor fanboy but the capabilities it gives you make hardening applications dirt easy. It comes with SUSE 10 but I don't believe it's turned on by default. My firefox profile only allows it to execute certain viewer applications and only access certain parts of the filesystem, i.e. firefox can't read anything in /etc. I have evolution setup the same way. You should have a look at it, I think you'll find that MAC really isn't that hard at all once you have the right tools to manage things.

    28. Re:What's the real lesson here? by G+Money · · Score: 1

      It is unfortunate that the security features of Windows are almost never used properly but they've gone to great lengths to cultivate a user community that cares only about features and not about security. It's kind of like Intel hyping up their MHz myth and then getting killed when their latest and greatest processors don't have an insane clockspeed but have a decent pipeline. Proper priviledge seperation is difficult to do under any OS so lets hope that people take the time to do it right under Linux/BSD/Whatever and don't go for what's easiest for an out of the box setup.

    29. Re:What's the real lesson here? by el+todopoderoso · · Score: 1

      While I agree with the inevitability that open-source software will have bugs and the fact that library permissions should be more restricted in certain cases, the most immediately important fact is this: Microsoft has not released a working patch for this widely exploitable patch. Even the security articles I have read do not mention how to manually prevent or remove the infections caused by it. I had to come to slashdot to find out that you can unregister the .dll for image viewing or turn DEP on.

      In the open source world I am fairly certain that a patch for such a problem would have been started on earlier, perhaps even while the exploit was just theoretical. And, even if it had blown up in public, a patch would have been put out by *someone* quickly since everyone has access to the source code. Corporations with programmers could even fix it themselves. But, in the case of Microsoft, we have to wait on them to get off their asses and fix their proprietary code.

      --
      An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. -Victor Hugo
    30. Re:What's the real lesson here? by cpu_fusion · · Score: 1

      Nice plug for AppArmor, but it really isn't anywhere near the same as SELinux.

      - AppArmor is not Open Source Software. Selinux is.

      - The version of AppArmor ("Lite") that ships with Suse 10 (not OpenSuse) is restricted to the preprovided set of application profiles; e.g. no Xine. Selinux ships with Fedora and has no such restrictions.

      - AppArmor costs ~$1,250 per machine (yes, you read that correctly) to have an unrestricted version to create your own profiles (e.g. Xine, mplayer). Selinux is free ($0). Did I mention that AppArmor costs at least $263/year for upgrades?

      - Setting up MAC and doing it right isn't easy no matter which system you use. AppArmor may hide details that SELinux exposes, but simplicity and flexibility are ALWAYS a trade off.

      Anyways, SELinux is the answer unless you want to run Suse 10 and live with the limited profiles available; (or shell out $1,250+.)

    31. Re:What's the real lesson here? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      also opensource actually helps against buffer overflows as apps built on different setups are likely to have different adresses making it very hard to make one exploit that works against all builds.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    32. Re:What's the real lesson here? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      To the CPU its all instructions, it doesn't care if its issued by the crt or the java_vm.
      that is indeed true but the vast majority of security holes are caused by programmer screwups. Languages like java simply don't let the programmer write arbitary memory by running off the end of arrays.

      i'm not saying java apps can't be insecure but i am saying there is a whole class of hole thats easy peasy to create in C and virtually impossible to create in languages like java.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    33. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

      Nope. You said, "by default" Windows is more secure than Linux. The challenge was issued for "unpatched" systems, that is, configuration "by default". Windows, by default, sucks for unpatched remote hacks, just humming along by itself attached to the internet, even before you take into account default email, web browsing, and media playing (rootkit, anyone?), with require "some" user actions.

      It's a fair challenge. Although, I'd admit that the challenger should have to use a mainstream user-oriented Linux distro, and not a "hardened" server distro.

      I'll challenge both of your boxes against a freshly installed Apple box. :) /actually not, I don't have a spare Apple box ;)

      --
      Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
    34. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I misspoke, but "by default" I meant without adding hardening stuff like SELinux, RSBAC, or GRSecurity.

      I don't disagree with what you say, though. The point I was trying to make was that the stock WinXP kernel has better security features than the stock Linux kernel. That's completely ignoring the normal installation status of each. At this point, it's also worth mentioning that Linux *HAS* things like SELinux, RSBAC, GRSecurity, and such. Those things are kernel patches, but can be done by anyone sufficiently skilled. OTOH, Windows source is so closely held that even those outside Microsoft who can see it can't do the kind of experimentation with it that has produced the hardened Linux kernels.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    35. Re:What's the real lesson here? by molnarcs · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but how could code run - without asking for a password first? I'm not saying it can't, because I don't know, so I'm just curious... in the above scenario (/home mounted with noexec). Would it run from /tmp (but firefox/konqi/whatever can have - and I think it does have - its cache elsewhere)?

    36. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

      Hmm.. ok. I never think in terms of the Kernel, as opposed to the Operation System. Perhaps the WinXP kernel has more security features (different priviledges for Local Logon, SYSTEM w/o Network access, complex file and registry ACLs, to name a couple). But they are not used consistently or properly.

      The complexity is itself a problem. Network access to the registry is controlled by the permissions ACL on a particular registry subkey, for instance. The OS directory structure requires that ACLs be maintained on a per-file and per-subfolder basis, since so many subfolders and files in the Windows\system32 directory need exceptions in their ACLs.

      So the kernel could be capable of so much more, but the way Microsoft creates the rest of the OS is.. horrendous.. from an admin perspective. From a single-user (home user) perspective, the complexity isn't as problematic except for the variety of ways that malware can invade and reside in the system undetected.

      / falling asleep..
      // and have a Happy New Year!

      --
      Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
    37. Re:What's the real lesson here? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      A buffer overflow in something like the mail reader program which has permission to write to your home directory would be able to wipe out all of your documents.

    38. Re:What's the real lesson here? by molnarcs · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but how would the code exploiting the buffer overflow propagate? I'm not familiar with how these exploits work, so this might be a stupid question: how would the code exploiting the vulnerability run? Will it be launched autamitaclly by opening an email?

    39. Re:What's the real lesson here? by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Complete agreement.

      Incidentally, SELinux ain't no picnic, either. I'm using the Gentoo hardened SELinux, and it's got a rather outdated basic policy. When enforcing, everything not specifically permitted is forbidden. Meaning that I can only run software for which a policy exists. Which means that I can't move the server load to this machine, since I depend on several programs that don't yet have policies. (leafnode and dovecot, to name 2) In the next few months, they're going to get current on the base policy. I'll get more serious about learning then, and maybe write my own, where needed.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    40. Re:What's the real lesson here? by NullProg · · Score: 1

      Any programming language that implements bounds checking should be immune to buffer overflows. C is not one of those languages, Java is.

      Any programmer who writes assembler/C/C++ must implement bounds checking. Its called competence. Are you saying that some programmers don't? Then why are they paid programmers? Oh, were supposed to make programming easier for people who don't understand computers. Fine. Those people should stick to safe programming and never toggle their sound/network/scsi/etc. card bits themselves. Heaven forbid if they talk to the hardware directly and do something unique.

      On the other hand, I guess that the java_vm, python and .net interpreters are all crap. All are written/compiled using C/C++. Either your a responsible programmer or you need to find a new profession.

      Enjoy.

      --
      It's just the normal noises in here.
    41. Re:What's the real lesson here? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      One could mount /tmp noexec as well (assuming a separate /tmp partition). This would still allow for the execution of scripts in /tmp, such as python /tmp/destroy_your_data.py, but it might make it harder.

    42. Re:What's the real lesson here? by metallic · · Score: 1

      I think you are getting confused between the Java language and the actual VM that Java runs on. It's the VM that actually performs the bounds checking before allowing a read or a write from the array.

      --
      Karma: Positive. Mostly effected by cowbell.
    43. Re:What's the real lesson here? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      buffer overflows mainly work by flowing onto the stack so that when a function call returns it doesn't jump back to where it was called from, instead it jumps to the address pushed into the stack by the exploit. Think of it as a sort of "runtime patching". The exploited program is actually having aditional code added to it. it could be almost anything. Because the executing code is actually part of the program it is running with the same privs as that program. ie, a mail client which has permission to write to the home directory has been "patched" to erease all the files in that directory.

      Buffer overflows work when a section of memory for say, a string has been reserved for something like 100 bytes. If there is a bug in the program logic that allows a 125 byte sequence to be written into that 100 byte buffer then 25 bytes will be written PAST the point that was reserved for it. If the buffer is right before the stack address then 25 bytes jsut got written into the program stack. If the programmer is good enough they can use that to insert some arbitrary code and the CPU jsut follows it because it doesn't know any better.

    44. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Oh, were supposed to make programming easier for people who don't understand computers.

      Er... I, for one, understand computers just fine, and I'm quite capable of writing manual bounds checks in C, Delphi, and other languages where they're needed. But using a language where they aren't needed makes things easier for me and every other programmer.

      Catching bounds check exceptions at a few key points in the application is easier to remember and less tedious to implement than checking by hand every time you access an array. It's also less likely to end badly when someone screws up - if an exception goes uncaught in C# or Java, the program just crashes, but if a buffer access goes unchecked in C, the program is open to exploitation.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    45. Re:What's the real lesson here? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      who is in charge of enforcing the bounds checking is not really the programmers concern unless the programmer is doing advanced stuff like sandboxing untrusted java bytecode.

      the java language is always used in the java environment and the java environment provided bounds checking. C (and most other conventional languages) cannot be compiled for use in the java environment without seriously changing the language or using very dirty tricks.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    46. Re:What's the real lesson here? by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 1

      As has already been said, this is not a buffer overflow, or a bug in the code. The problem is that the WMF *standard* says that media files can contain code, which can download things off of the internet without user intervention, and this is all hunky-dory. There *is* no Unix/X11 equivalent; any equivalents would be the OGG media formats, or maybe an XML document format. And, as far as I know, all of the open data formats were not specifically designed to allow arbitrary code execution. This is why this flaw is so bad: Microsoft *specifically allowed* this, and now it is being used by bad people. Surprise.

      The inevitable patch will likely just make the system libraries ignore that particular bit of the WMF spec, which is a band-aid, not a solution.

  19. Get Firefox NOW! by kaos.geo · · Score: 1, Funny

    Come on people!!!
    I do tech support for 60+ machines at work...
    The one user that refused to use firefox...
    called me a week ago.BEGGING..Her computer had started TALKING
    (i.e. audio advertisements in english)
    The people in the other cubicles were claiming for an EXORCIST for the biatch.

    1. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 0, Troll

      Come on, people! Learn to properly format a comment!

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    2. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by kaos.geo · · Score: 1

      I am sorry my poor english skills irritated your sensitive retina. I'll leave you now to continue writing whatever it is you write that will prolly get you the booker prize or the pulitzer. ;)

    3. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by discordiaaaaaaaa · · Score: 1

      I think he's referring to the astounding effect Firefox may have on your libido. ;)

    4. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      Okay, one properly formatted command coming up.

      apt-get install firefox ;)

    5. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The human eye was not meant to scan the wide lines of
      text that most people use in their messages. Proper formatting
      of a message includes be aware of this fact.
      (Unless you happen to like nodding back and forth all day).

    6. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 1

      If you don't know how to use the language, don't try.

      I don't attempt to write out the clicks and whistles you use to communicate with your nigger brothers and sisters, do I?

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    7. Re:Get Firefox NOW! by kaos.geo · · Score: 1

      Meesa so sorry,mastah! Daylight come and we must go home!! Have a nice year!!!

  20. Dupe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Serious security flaw? Are you on CRACK? Joking, joking. But seriously. If they were forced to make their software OSS (which might actually happen in Europe), they would be pretty much forced to patch their software VERY quickly. They would also have to keep their software up to par and have fewer holes because it is concievable that OSS means that people are going to be looking for 'sploits.

  21. Windows, definitely Windows... by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    It's a misfeature of Windows itself. If you surf with ANY browser, you'll get zapped if you surf to a site set up to take advantage of this latest hole.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    1. Re:Windows, definitely Windows... by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      True. However, the other non-IE browsers at least ask you want you want to do with the .wmf file on the page. If you click the 'open' button, then, well, you get what you deserve...

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    2. Re:Windows, definitely Windows... by eatmadust · · Score: 1

      the image file can also be named as .gif or .jpg (even if it isn't). Then (in any browser that displays the images) it will be opened and therefore you will be infected ... without knowing it and without clicking on anything!

    3. Re:Windows, definitely Windows... by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1
      The browser must know how to handle a WMF, so MS IE has problems. FireFox and Opera look at the file and say "that's not a JPG/GIF - it's corrupt".

      Other browses based on IE (Maxthon, Netcaptor, ...) are likely vulnerable as well.

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    4. Re:Windows, definitely Windows... by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1

      Oh, I forgot to mention that you still have an infectious file in your disk cache, even if you're not vulnerable directly through the browser. There may be ways to exploit that somehow.

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    5. Re:Windows, definitely Windows... by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's a misfeature of Windows itself. If you surf with ANY browser, you'll get zapped if you surf to a site set up to take advantage of this latest hole.

      This is completely untrue. BTW: I've visited many of the sites in question using a virtual session, so I know first hand.

      Internet Explorer uses the broken DLL in question to help it rendering the inline WMF in a webpage. Thus, if the site has a WMF as an image, IE can be exploited immediately. On Windows 2003 Server, it should be mentioned, WMFs are blocked by default (because it requires an external renderer, and IE disallows external helpers outside of trusted sites, or by explicitly allowing it with the security bar on a case-by-case basis).

      Mozilla/Firefox doesn't render or handle WMF at all. It'll ask you if you want to open the file, encouraging (at least in current versions) you to open it with Media Player. Even if you click OK you're okay, as Media Player won't know what to do with the file.

      Opera is in between - if it sees a WMF it will ask if you want to open it, and it'll suggest the Windows Picture and Fax viewer (which uses the affected DLL), so one OK later and you're owned.

  22. Not a total solution... by Chmcginn · · Score: 4, Informative
    Because the vulnerability exists within a faulty Windows component, security experts warn that Windows users who eschew Internet Explorer in favor of alternative Web browsers, such as older versions of Firefox and Opera, can still get their PCs infected if they agree to download a file from a site taking advantage of the flaw.
    Agreeably, you shouldn't be downloading from websites you don't trust anyway... but as anyone who's ever had a computer-illiterate relative or spouse can tell you, sometimes... "But, I really wanted to play that 87th degree derivation of breakout!"

    Okay, really, she said Arkanoid, but you get my point.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:Not a total solution... by jafiwam · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's not enough.

      The flaw can be used with a JPG file (read; the image of the button, or the site seal, or the photo) in the web page.

      And since the flaw is in data in the header of the WMF file type, it can be executed even if the file extension is not WMF.

      In other words, if you are seeing images on web pages with Windows, you can get this. No downloading is necessary even in other browsers. Until it's patched, the only true safe method is unregister the DLL or don't get on the internet with Windows at all.

      As an FYI, I had to deal with this thing several weeks back when it was rare. (The bimbo doesn't remember what web site did it.) IF you do, just pull the drive, mount it on another machine, get your data, and wipe the damn thing. It's a really really tough infection to clean. It screwed the OS more ways than Courtney Love and ate so much CPU it was unusable. PLUS it downloaded other stuff and started to try to infect other machines on the network.

      Shoot to kill this one guys, the patient is already dead.

    2. Re:Not a total solution... by makomk · · Score: 2, Informative

      In other words, if you are seeing images on web pages with Windows, you can get this.

      Not necessarily. I think Firefox at least uses its own image-rendering library, which is why it's harder to get infected if you're using it. (You have to open an infected file in some other suitable viewer i.e. one that uses the affected library).

    3. Re:Not a total solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firefox uses the libpr0n image library to render images. It has to have its own library since it's a crossplatform application and the image libraries available on Windows don't match the image libaries avaiable under Linux or Mac OS X or any of the other miriade of platforms it supports.

      And on that note, Firefox does NOT support WMF files under Windows, nor does Opera.

    4. Re:Not a total solution... by citizenr · · Score: 0

      only IE uses windows libraries to render images

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
  23. MOD PARENT UP by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If all you are doing is browsing the web, there is absolutely no reason to not do it in a sandbox. In fact, I don't get why all browsers run in sandboxes. Why do they *ever* need access to the host OS? If they need to save downloaded files, they can do so via a mounted share. At least in a sandbox they cannot execute privilidged code, at most they could infect executabes on said share.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well if you run a real OS, then the browser runs only with the permissions of a particular user. Windows which has some security is designed to bypass that secuirty to give users an edge. So your screwed.

      Take the number of *Nix viruses (included, BSD's, Linux, Unix, etc) and compare that to the number of windows viruses that showed up in the past 2 years alone.

      MSFT doesn't care about security. Vista is a step in the right direction but they are keep way to much of the old code base for it to be useful for this decade.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP by toadlife · · Score: 0

      "Well if you run a real OS, then the browser runs only with the permissions of a particular user"

      Internet Explorer does run with the permissions of the user.

      "Windows which has some security is designed to bypass that secuirty to give users an edge. "

      WTF are you talking about?

      "Take the number of *Nix viruses (included, BSD's, Linux, Unix, etc) and compare that to the number of windows viruses that showed up in the past 2 years alone."

      That would prove nothing as Unix OS's don't have near the Desktop marketshare of Windows, not do they have the same type of userbase.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even on Windows it runs with the permissions of the current user. Users just tend not to restrict themselves enough for convenience reasons. Stop spreading anti-Windows FUD.

    4. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Minwee · · Score: 1
      "Internet Explorer does run with the permissions of the user."

      Most Windows users run with the permissions of "Administrator". Otherwise their programs don't work.

    5. Re:MOD PARENT UP by ReTay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would prove nothing as Unix OS's don't have near the Desktop marketshare of Windows, not do they have the same type of userbase.

      Bull if that tired old BS was true then would you care to compare IIS to Apache?
      Using the same criteria of course. Apache the market giant VS IIS the positions are almost reversed. But once again MS winds up with the lions share of the remote root exploits. Now how does that figure with the claim that market share = number of exploits?

    6. Re:MOD PARENT UP by julesh · · Score: 1

      Well if you run a real OS, then the browser runs only with the permissions of a particular user. Windows which has some security is designed to bypass that secuirty to give users an edge. So your screwed.

      That just ain't true. Internet Explorer runs with the permissions of whichever user you're logged in as.

      In fact, in Windows Vista, I understand it runs in a restricted user account with less access than the current user.

    7. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Aglassis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Use

      runas /user:root_user "Whatever command goes here"

      Note: 'root_user' is whatever you have renamed your 'Administrator' account. You have renamed your 'Administrator' account, right?

      If you need a command prompt use

      runas /user:root_user cmd

      If you need IE for a Windows update use

      runas /user:root_user "C:\program files\internet explorer\iexplore.exe"

      and then go to the Windows Update site. If you need to do filebrowsing as a superuser use the same command, but then type "c:" in the address box.

      There is almost nothing that you can't do with runas. Additionally, XP makes it easier for most programs with "Run As" being a left-click item. While there are some programs that you need to log in to install (itunes was one for me), and there are some minor config issues to get certain applications to work (the ones that assume you are an Administrator). Nonetheless, I haven't used the Administrator account for normal user operations for about 7 years.

      --
      Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
    8. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      That would prove nothing as Unix OS's don't have near the Desktop marketshare of Windows, not do they have the same type of userbase.

      Boy that's a tired old argument. How far would the Sony root kit have gotten on, for instance, OS X? Nowhere, that's how far. The first thing that would happen is that you'd have been told that a program was trying to execute for the first time. And you'd have to agree to explicitly allow it. And then, even if you were that foolish, you'd still be forced to give administrative approval when that program tried to modify or install something outside the user space. This is true even if you were logged into an administrator account.

      And yet on Windows it able to silently do its thing and go undetected for months.

    9. Re:MOD PARENT UP by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Internet Explorer runs active X which runs with system wide permissions. Security experts denouced ActiveX's security when MSTF first published it. 4 years later was 2003 and Active X security was and stil is being bypassed on a daily basis.

      Using Firefox/Opera and a thrid party firewall can stop ~60% of Windows security issues.

      Just by killing ActiveX.

      That's the truth behind MSFT security. As for market share, Apache doesn't run well on windows and has more than 60% of the server marketshare. Yet IIS is the most attacked and most flawed server.

      Windows and MSFT puts dedicated bypass procedures inside windows and windows memory management. MSFT doesn't patch a flaw, they create an exception to block that particular flaw leaving the flaw itself still there. They have to do this because MSFT has encouraged sloppy programing practices and sloppy programmers. The best one was a memory flaw that MSFT put into XP to allow the Sims to run on both Win98 and WinXP. This flaw is bypassed normal XP protection systems so the game would run. That's typical msft patching. That's why they have weekly security flaws in need of patching.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    10. Re:MOD PARENT UP by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's gonna do the job for people. Nothing like making it hard to do anything to convince someone to be security minded.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    11. Re:MOD PARENT UP by dpilot · · Score: 1

      It can be done, but it normally isn't done that way.

      Obviously you know how to do this right, but you also know enough to avoid most of the problem situations.

      The real problem is in taking the obvious steps you've suggested and roll them out more generally. THIS may well be the biggest security advantage of Linux/Unix/*bsd, not their low market share. They have cultures which begin with lesser access, rather than total access, as Windows does. Of course run-as-root Linux distros coming out scare and annoy me. (Is Linspire still run-as-root?)

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    12. Re:MOD PARENT UP by cortana · · Score: 1

      "Internet Explorer runs active X which runs with system wide permissions."

      Cite please. I'm pretty sure that loading an activex control does *not* magically elevate your priviliges.

    13. Re:MOD PARENT UP by dc29A · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Use

      runas /user:root_user "Whatever command goes here"


      - You really think Mr. Joe Computer Illiterate would do that? Or how about Ms. Soccer Mom? One of the biggest Windows security issues is that everyone and their mother is running with root privileges. Unfortunately zillions of programs have been written by clueless coders who assume everyone is root. Endresult: You can't run many things without being root. As soon as you dwell into technicalities of user security, 99.99% of computer illiterate people will tell you to f*** off and let them use their computers as they want to. Not to mention they won't have the patience, will, desire to learn this stuff. They just want stuff out of the box that works. They don't want to spend time entering commands that appear to them as pure gibberish.

      Microsoft needs to do a few things:
      - Copy Ubuntu security ideas: no one knows root password, use sudo (well ... MS equivalent).
      - Take out IE and crap from the kernel. There is no excuse for a virus running as an image with SYSTEM authority. None.
      - Default user setting is very limited. Right now windows doesn't even warn you (SP2) if you put a blank password as administrator. W-T-F?

      But they key is, never let a clueless user have full control over the system except for one single process that is needed to configure hardware. All this have to be done seamlessly or users will simply ditch these measures and go back using root.

    14. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately anything security minded will be harder. My suggestions are only for experienced users. Someone reading Slashdot probably has the proficiency to understand how to control the permissions on their programs and run them from a lower priveledged account.

      While it does take a little more effort, it is almost all overhead. I rarely use the 'runas' command. I use it only when I need to install new software or to run a very stubborn program. But even then, it is usually just a quick right click, password, and then the program fires up. Life is still fairly simple.

      I also follow more Draconian security measures, but I won't list them here for brevity. I take security seriously and use common sense. While a couple of seconds of using 'runas' might seem to be a pain to you, it is far less pain than a full system backup. And less embarassing too.

    15. Re:MOD PARENT UP by cortana · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem any harder than using su or sudo.

    16. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SandBox IE works nicely for this.

    17. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yes, let's compare IIS to Apache.

      IIS6 has had 2 vulnerabilities since it's inception three years ago. The most serious of which could allow someone to DOS the webserver.

      http://secunia.com/product/1438/

      Apache has had 29 vulnerabilities, 27 within the same timeframe as the IIS6 comparison. The worst of which allowed for full system access.

      http://secunia.com/product/73/

      If you want to step back in time, IIS5 had 13 vulnerabilities and IIS4 had 6. Apache 1.3.x had 17.

      IIS seems less secure because of a handful of very public exploits, all of which happened typically months after the necessary patch was released.

      It's not the underlying product, it's the accessability and maturity of the tools available for compromise. In the case of Windows there are a great number of kits already assembled and ready to go that simply need an attack vector. Once a single buffer overflow is discovered people can insert their favorite malware code into the exploit and fire away.

      It's also mindset. Sitting back and claiming that Apache is invincible is the mindset that leads to compromise. Overconfidence often leads to complacency in both architecture and administration. I've run both IIS and Apache servers for close to a decade. I treat both like people are just waiting to get in and muck things up and in that time I've never had a single compromise. Nimda and CodeRed bounced right off.

    18. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Tomaaah · · Score: 1

      Apache doesn't run well on windows Works fine for me, but hey, while we're being stereotypical...

    19. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Aglassis · · Score: 1

      The real problem is in taking the obvious steps you've suggested and roll them out more generally. THIS may well be the biggest security advantage of Linux/Unix/*bsd, not their low market share. They have cultures which begin with lesser access

      Exactly. The culture is the key, not how the distributions assign permissions. The distributions are only mirroring the system operators. I started learning systems administration with VMS and UNIX in the mid 90s. Fortunately the culture wasn't corrupted and user permissions were still stressed. For this reason, even my NT or later boxes have operated under similar constraints.

      This isn't a Windows issue (the permissions assignment, I mean). For the most part, software companies respected the delegation of authority in Windows NT. It was only when Windows 2000 was released that a program assumed you were the Administrator, for the most part. Windows 2000 is no weaker than a UNIX system as far as delegation of user's rights are concerned, just more obfuscated. The fact that programs assume you are the Administrator has more to do with the training of the Administrators than the capabilities of Windows.

      Unfortunately, sometimes cultures leak across to each other. I am not really confident that I can say that a Linux or UNIX distribution won't assume you are root in 5 years. A decent sysadmin will be able to adapt anyways.

      --
      Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
    20. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Thuktun · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At least in a sandbox they cannot execute privilidged code, at most they could infect executabes on said share.

      Depends on your level of safety in the sandbox. Do not some versions of Windows have protected-mode device drivers--you know, for speed reasons? If you didn't have image-rendering and sound-playback also handled by the sandbox--also for speed reasons--then it might be possible to escape the sandbox given the right kind of vulnerability in the device driver.

      I would hope VMWare fully simulates all hardware and wouldn't have this kind of vulnerability. It's slow, but it's safe.

      Incidentally, that choice is one that Microsoft often appears to choose perceived speed at the expense of safety.

    21. Re:MOD PARENT UP by PenguiN42 · · Score: 1

      Well if you run a real OS, then the browser runs only with the permissions of a particular user.

      ... Which is enough, in ANY OS that doesn't do sandboxing, to do things like run a simple spyware program, connect to the internet, send mail, delete your home/My Documents directory, etc. The prevalence of viruses and worms on windows has nothing to do with the fact that most users are "Administrator," and the lack thereof on unix/mac has nothing to do with the fact that most users aren't. You're confusing one windows issue with another.

      MSFT doesn't care about security.

      Kanye West? Is that you?

      --
      The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
    22. Re:MOD PARENT UP by tutori · · Score: 1

      Really, all that would have happened then is you would have no case against Sony for doing what they did. People still would have done what they were told to do to get the CD to play. The difference is that they would have had to explicitly alow what was happening (and the vast majority would have).

    23. Re:MOD PARENT UP by PenguiN42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, seriously. That old knee-jerk meme of "IIS vs Apache disproves the myth of exploits due to install base" has to die. Yet someone invariably posts it, and they invariably get modded up. I just hope a few rational mods find your post quickly.

      Not to mention that the OP seems to have confused the issue of "exploits" with the issue of "user permissions" which is what was actually being talked about.

      --
      The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
    24. Re:MOD PARENT UP by PenguiN42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Boy that's a tired old argument.

      That doesn't make it false.

      The first thing that would happen is that you'd have been told that a program was trying to execute for the first time. And you'd have to agree to explicitly allow it.

      Interesting... I haven't used OSX much, but I have downloaded programs to friends' OSX boxes, and run them, and gotten no such prompt. In which cases does the OS ask you this?

      Also, this example doesn't apply to Linux, so the argument isn't quite tired and old yet.

      And then, even if you were that foolish, you'd still be forced to give administrative approval when that program tried to modify or install something outside the user space.

      User space is all you need for most spyware/malware/worms. This is why sandboxing (the OP) should be more prevalent -- on all operating systems. Don't get too comfortable just because you don't run windows.

      --
      The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
    25. Re:MOD PARENT UP by WhiplashII · · Score: 1

      The problem is that it does not magically lower your privileges - it should!

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    26. Re:MOD PARENT UP by bushidocoder · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Windows which has some security is designed to bypass that secuirty to give users an edge.

      What the hell are you talking about? If you're referring to the fact that default home users run as a Administrator or Poweruser by default, you're right, that's a mistake, but its a policy mistake, not a technology mistake. Windows lets you run as a lesser user, its just that by default you don't. Internet Explorer runs 100% in userland. There is no part of Internet Explorer which runs in the kernel. None. Although Internet Explorer certainly has more holes than Firefox, they are both limitted to the same order of magnitude of potential damage. The same as on other "real OSes".

    27. Re:MOD PARENT UP by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      > The worst of which allowed for full system access.

      are sure about that ?

      My Apache runs as user httpd chrooted to /var/www

      good luck getting full system access

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    28. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      The difference is that they would have had to explicitly alow what was happening

      And so the world would have known the very first day that something was going on, instead of months later. Big difference.

    29. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That doesn't make it false.

      True. But it's false nonetheless, for reasons (among others) that I went on to explain.

      but I have downloaded programs to friends' OSX boxes, and run them, and gotten no such prompt. In which cases does the OS ask you this?

      Every time.

      Also, this example doesn't apply to Linux, so the argument isn't quite tired and old yet.

      I didn't address Linux because I personally don't know enough about it. I'm sure someone else could explain what would happen if a rogue app tried to modify the OS.

      User space is all you need for most spyware/malware/worms.

      Not for the Sony root kit, which was the example I used. And not for the ones that install proxy servers, etc. So there is an entire class that functions on Windows that wouldn't work elsewhere. And they tend to be the more malicious ones as well.

      Don't get too comfortable just because you don't run windows.

      Good point. I am, however, way less uncomfortable.

    30. Re:MOD PARENT UP by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Nope. Everyone knew that Sony was installing some sort of DRM crap. The issue was that they didn't know it had a kernel-mode "rootkit"-like driver that hid processes and files.

      If you think that Mac users have any clue about what happens after they type the sudo password, you're kidding yourself. Anything being installed could be SUID root, which would completely defeat the permission system. And of course, installing drivers is not impossible with OSX either.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    31. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your forgetting one minor little detail...

      A lot of exploits come from misconfigurations. If some kid setup apache and didn't specifically know or get told to do that do you think his system is gonna be anywhere near as secure? Most likely he'll set it up with the defaults and brag that he's using apache and therefore invulnerable. Yes, Yours might survive the attack but his could get toasted.

    32. Re:MOD PARENT UP by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      I also understand that Windows Vista is supposed to run IE with lower privileges than the current user. The sad thing is that lowered privileges wouldn't do a damn thing to stop you from being infected by the problem we are discussing. Just view the wrong image and *zap* you're infected.

      It's ugly when the flaw is in the graphics display subroutines of the OS itself. Microsoft keeps promising that the next version of Windows will slice bread, walk the dog and fix all the security problems. The problem is that when a new version comes out it is no longer the *next* version... You'll still have to wait for that.

    33. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      If you think that Mac users have any clue about what happens after they type the sudo password, you're kidding yourself.

      It only takes one person to figure it out, not everybody. And since it would have been asking permission the very first day, someone would have figured it out soon after.

    34. Re:MOD PARENT UP by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      you probably don't even know that in OpenBSD Apache is chrooted by default

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    35. Re:MOD PARENT UP by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1
      you probably don't even know that in OpenBSD Apache is chrooted by default

      Unfortunately, that's one of the exceptions, not the rule.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    36. Re:MOD PARENT UP by jasen666 · · Score: 1

      heh, because Windows would break if IE didn't have full access to the Windows subsystem. We all know how necessary that is to display text web pages and jpg images.

    37. Re:MOD PARENT UP by chgros · · Score: 1

      OK, so how do I run control panel as root? (which is the main thing that actually requires admin priviledges).

    38. Re:MOD PARENT UP by algae · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Have you ever actually tried to run Windows XP as a non-admin user? You can't install any new USB devices, and on about 1/2 of the devices I've tried, you need admin rights to plug them in whether or not the drivers have been previously installed. I tried to set my dad up that way, and after about a day we both agreed it was hopeless. He's got a digital camera, card reader, printer/scanner, and VoIP headset all of which need Admin rights *JUST TO BE PLUGGED IN*. It's not a policy mistake if the "correct" policy prevents the computer from being useful.

      --
      Causation can cause correlation
    39. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Amouth · · Score: 1

      I am not so sure about the IIS vs. Apache.. if you look at the bug list for Apache (any version) they have a very high rate.. they may be small and stupid but they are bugs.. IIS on the other hand we don't see the full list we only see the really bad ones (which i will say they have more than Apache)

      so the argument is only truly valid for cirtical bugs.. the others we can't be sure about.. I will say that IIS 6 has done alot to fix this IF you know how to use it.. the creation of application pools and giving them specific user accounts and rights.. you can set up IIS so that even if it does get a horrid infection it is still contained within a memorey space and not on the whole system..

      Sorry i just wanted to put out my view on this topic.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    40. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Politburo · · Score: 1

      You have renamed your 'Administrator' account, right?

      My understanding is that even if you rename your admin account, the user name 'Administrator' is still valid, unless you reghack.

    41. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Coder7 · · Score: 1

      Just because a program runs in user-space doesn't mean it wont have access to priviledged system calls. Other than the mis-guided folks using kernel-mode linux apps (which is stupid), most applications run in user-space, and make system calls to do their admin-type things. An application run as root (and similarly admin on windows) has the ability to do virtually anything as far as the kernel is concerned. The only reason why you can't break stuff with out getting at least some kind of warning is because the user-space application had warning written into it by the developers. And unfortunately, IE doesn't have much in the way of warnings when it is about to do something potentially dangerous.

    42. Re:MOD PARENT UP by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Linux doesn't have autorun. Neither does MacOS X, incidentally. This is because autorun is the most fucking insecure feature that has ever been invented.

      So this is how this would have worked on Linux, assuming they bothered to support it:

      People would have put the CD in. Presumably, it has some random defect that keeps it from playing straight on a computer CD-ROM, so it would have failed to play.

      So users would have browsed to it, and seen something to run. Well, some would. The rest would roll their eyes and pull out their ripper app which can handle bad CDs and just encoded the thing.(1)

      They'd click on it and run it.

      Now, there are only two ways I can think of installing software that would screw up ripping a CD. Either a preloaded library that sites in front of libc and stops the various access to the device, or a kernel module.

      Now, the preloaded library could be installed for the single user with no one the wiser, via a varible in .bashrc. Sadly, most low-level error-correcting CD ripper apps require root access anyway, so that idea would be completely pointless. Preloaded library variables go away when you sudo, that was hammered down a long time ago.(2)

      So it would require root access. Unlike Windows, people do not normally run Linux as root. In fact, both Gnome and KDE will complain when you start browsing the filesystem as root, so you'd notice a problem when you went to run the install program from the CD.

      So, you'd have to type in the root password, at which point it would install a kernel module, and set that module to load on startup.

      Of course, there are ways to secure something like that from happening, but these are not enable under normal Linux.

      1) In fact, a lot of people would not even notice any copy protection. There are CD apps for Linux that wouldn't bat an eye...if the CD can be played in a CD player, the apps will follow the same rules and play it. The whole 'corrupt CD as copy protection' is getting rather old, and the fact that companies failed to provide any way in Linux to play them means quite a few Linux apps are smart enough to screw around until they find the music.

      2) Heh. It could, as you, let you rip, and then keep track of what files named .mp3 were created while the known ripper process was running and not let you access them, I guess. But making that transparent and foolproof would be extremely hard to do.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    43. Re:MOD PARENT UP by julesh · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is that lowered privileges wouldn't do a damn thing to stop you from being infected by the problem we are discussing. Just view the wrong image and *zap* you're infected.

      It's ugly when the flaw is in the graphics display subroutines of the OS itself.


      As I understand the flaw, the exploit code is executed in the context of the application, not as the system user. The flaw is in the GDI component, yes, but the flaw is basically that it allows a call back to the application's memory space to be made that shouldn't exist.

      In this case, lowered priveleges, if done right, would certainly protect you from infection. The app wouldn't be able to create files except in a well known location, and wouldn't be able to modify the registry to cause files it created to be executed.

    44. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Johnno74 · · Score: 1

      Uh, WHAT?

      Your understanding is definitely wrong.

    45. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Johnno74 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you enable the option on windows explorer "start each folder window in a new process" then you can then use the "runas" trick to start an explorer (NOT internet explorer) window that is running as admin.

    46. Re:MOD PARENT UP by MCSEBear · · Score: 1

      Here's text from the CERT advisory which was updated today:

      disabling the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer will not eliminate this vulnerability as it is currently thought to exist in the Windows Graphical Device Interface library (GDI32.DLL).

      http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/181038/

      That sure sounds like more than a flaw in User Space applications.

    47. Re:MOD PARENT UP by webweave · · Score: 1

      You sir sound like the rare competent server operator, clearly above the norm and posting as AC you are cleverly obscuring your servers from any attacks that flames may cause. But for you to compare published vulnerabilities in closed and open systems is clearly laughable. How many MS patch de jour were released during the same time fixing (and breaking) who know what? How many known (but not yet published) vulnerabilities still exsist?

      That's like comparing the production rate figures of the US and Russia during the Cold War or assessing the damage of last year's tidal wave between Malaysia and Burma using official numbers. The closed source government of Burma reported no injuries and no effect. The tidal wave just stopped at the border. Did I just compare M$ to two evil dictatorships? Oops.

    48. Re:MOD PARENT UP by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      that will be why I said MY Apache

      not Apache

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    49. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Nick+Number · · Score: 1

      If you enable the option on windows explorer "start each folder window in a new process" then you can then use the "runas" trick to start an explorer (NOT internet explorer) window that is running as admin.

      This didn't work for me. No new window opens. Perhaps I'm missing a step somewhere.

      You can, however, do a RunAs with Internet Explorer and then type a local path in the Address bar. It then works just like Windows Explorer except for a few minor differences -- you have to hit F5 to refresh after moving or renaming files for instance.

      You can use this trick to get into Control Panel, Administrative Tools, etc. as administrator.

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
    50. Re:MOD PARENT UP by iluvcapra · · Score: 1
      I have downloaded programs to friends' OSX boxes, and run them, and gotten no such prompt. In which cases does the OS ask you this?

      Are you talking about execution with no user intervention, or execution by double-clicking on an application? If you're surfing the internet on OS X with safari or FF (or even IE I believe), there is nothing you can click on a web page that will cause an application to download and then execute. The most that can happen is that it will download; Safari has no hook to run an application directly. There was an exploit discovered a few years ago where you could write a malicious application that would register itself as a URL handler for a particular scheme, and then a malicious website would send Safari a redirect to a resource in that scheme, causing OS X to delegate the URL to the malicious app, opening it automatically. But Apple patched that in a week, and we've heared nothing since-- the fix was: If Safari gets redirected to a scheme supported by an app you've never run before, you will get an allow/deny prompt.

      OTOH, the computer will not warn you if you double-click to open an app for the first time. Really, what would it say? Something like "You're running this app I haven't seen before. I don't know where it came from, and Alan Turing says it's impossible for me to predict what it will do. Are you sure you wanted to double-click on it?" Warning prompts should only be for side effects of a users action, things that they would not resonably expect to occur from an action; clicking on a link should not run an application, thus we prompt for it. Doubleclicking on an app should do nothing but run an application, thus we do not prompt for it.

      It's a hazy user-interface issue, but you have to draw the line and give your user a bit of credit. If the affirmatively want to open an app, trojan or not, the computer cannot nursemaid them.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    51. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Johnno74 · · Score: 1

      Make sure the "run in seperate process" setting is set on the account you are trying to use to run explorer. Makes sense really, the first thing explorer does when it starts is checks if it should shut down if it is already running, so when you use runas its using the setting in the profile of the admin user, not the normal logged in user.

      See this blog post for more info:
      http://blogs.msdn.com/aaron_margosis/archive/2004/ 07/07/175488.aspx
      This is a very useful blog for running as non-admin. I no longer run as local admin, it really cuts down the risk of bad things happening if you pick up a virus or worm, or you insert a DRMed sony pseudo-cd into your drive...

    52. Re:MOD PARENT UP by cyberdrop · · Score: 1

      just run IE as admin with RUNAS and type "Control Panel" in the adressbar

    53. Re:MOD PARENT UP by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      I would hope VMWare fully simulates all hardware and wouldn't have this kind of vulnerability. It's slow, but it's safe.

      I won't dispute any of your other points, but VMWare is anything but slow. I have been useing it for years, and both under a Linux and Windows host, the guest OS runs at near-native CPU speed.

      The only noticeable slowdown comes if you are doing heavy disk IO, and even then, it is barely noticeable. But that would never be your problem in a web browser.

      No one using the VMWare browser applicance would notice any slowdown whatsoever.

    54. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Nope. The SID is though and some APIs allow you to use that in preference anyway... not sure what the exposure at user level is though (wouldn't be hard to write an app to do that).

      Note that once you have admin privileges *once* you don't even need to know any admin usernames after that because installing an app that grants you all privileges on command is fairly trivial (I wrote a 'true' sudo that doesn't need passwords some time ago... quite useful for doing stuff in unprivileged accounts. I wouldn't trust such an app on a production network though.).

    55. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      It could try to install a kernel module.

      Provided you were running a Stock kernel. Probably only then if you're running a Stock RedHat kernel. In x86 mode. It would catch the noobs but anyone with a bit of techical knowhow would have smelled a rat very quickly.

    56. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Rogue activex controls have been known to magically elevate privileges in the past.

      OTOH a rogue X client could probably do the same if it could find a bug in the server (which runs with root privs, although should be locked down with capabilities these days under linux at least). The risk is basically the same... it's a potential weak spot in the security model.

    57. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      OK, so how do I run control panel as root? (which is the main thing that actually requires admin priviledges).

      Shift+Right click an applet, Run As.

    58. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Have you ever actually tried to run Windows XP as a non-admin user? You can't install any new USB devices, and on about 1/2 of the devices I've tried, you need admin rights to plug them in whether or not the drivers have been previously installed. I tried to set my dad up that way, and after about a day we both agreed it was hopeless. He's got a digital camera, card reader, printer/scanner, and VoIP headset all of which need Admin rights *JUST TO BE PLUGGED IN*. It's not a policy mistake if the "correct" policy prevents the computer from being useful.

      You are mistaken, or lying. I regularly plug in USB (and Firewire) devices as a non-Admin user and they work fine.

    59. Re:MOD PARENT UP by kimvette · · Score: 1

      {
      Linux doesn't have autorun.
      }

      "Linux" doesn't but KDE most certainly does offer autorun as a feature. I believe Gnome does as well.

      autorun.sh is supported, but not widely used for obvious reasons.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    60. Re:MOD PARENT UP by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Apache does run well on Windows, however you only get a subset of functionality for some modules (notably php, ruby) plus unless you know how to enable NTFS case sensitivity in Windows (yes, Windows CAN be configured to be case-sensitive rather than merely case-retentive), you're further limited.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    61. Re:MOD PARENT UP by micheas · · Score: 1

      Thee problem is not the parts of windows. The Internet Explorer rendering engine is probably more secure than gecko, Mozilla's rendering engine,

      The problem is that microsoft has added things like the activeX security model that is proven to be bad. (check out the spyware on most windows computers.) There is no predefined user that is trusted to plug things in, like cameras, usb devices, floppies, cd's, but not install software.

      Windows security is like getting a box of premium carbon fiber safety bars for you car, but they come in a separate box so you can install yourself.

      The UNIX security model may be simple and out dated, but at least it is used (excluding Lindows, which I believe they started using the osX model about the same time they changed to linspire IIRC).

      Maybe when SeLinux is fully implemented in Debian, Microsoft will copy it. At least then we might have a few less spam bots around.

    62. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I should have said "slower" instead. Simulating hardware is necessarily slower than interacting with it directly, since there's an extra layer of abstraction involved.

    63. Re:MOD PARENT UP by toadlife · · Score: 1

      "Most Windows users run with the permissions of "Administrator". Otherwise their programs don't work."

      Not really. I've been running as a regular user on my windows machines for a long time. Right now, there are only two programs I have installed that didn't run as a regular user properly when installed. one of them is CD Burning (which by the way requires root privs on UNIX too), and the other is a badly programed game which keeps it's settings in the program files folder.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    64. Re:MOD PARENT UP by toadlife · · Score: 1

      "Internet Explorer runs active X which runs with system wide permissions."

      You are confused. In order to install ActiveX controlls you must have admin priveledges. So, if you can install an ActiveX control, then that ActiveX control will naturally run for the first time with...admin privledges. All of the ActiveX exploits for IE in the past have not worked unless the victim was running as admin.

      Using Firefox/Opera and a thrid party firewall can stop ~60% of Windows security issues. Just by killing ActiveX.

      Or you could just not run as an admin and accomplish the same thing.

      "That's the truth behind MSFT security. As for market share, Apache doesn't run well on windows and has more than 60% of the server marketshare. Yet IIS is the most attacked and most flawed server."

      According to the one website which records website defacement statistics, you are wrong.

      But, hey...lets not let facts get in the way of good propaganda!

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    65. Re:MOD PARENT UP by ZhuLien · · Score: 1

      as an experienced user, I don't care about security on my own computer either, beyond a sandbox browser/blocking incoming connections from the internet. beyond that the only security I need is a lock on my door and security alarm in my house. why should I have to log-in to my own computer, have to deal with file permissions on files that I myself want to do with what I please. it makes no sense at all...

    66. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
      The HP Printer/Scanner/Fax/Toaster combo my wife wanted to get for the home office says in the install manual that it needs to be installed by an admin, and anything other than printing needs to be done as an admin. Old scanner worked fine as a regular user.

      Different devices, different software & drivers, different requirements.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    67. Re:MOD PARENT UP by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      It is enabled by default?

      If not, it's not autorun, it's just natural selection in action to weed out the stupid people who think that could possibly be a good idea.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    68. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1
      one of them is CD Burning (which by the way requires root privs on UNIX too)

      Wrong. It requires write permissions to a CD burner drive, or a set[ug]id cdrecord to a user or group with write permissions to a CD burner drive. Neither of these require or imply root privileges.

    69. Re:MOD PARENT UP by toadlife · · Score: 1

      "It requires write permissions to a CD burner drive, or a set[ug]id cdrecord to a user or group with write permissions to a CD burner drive."

      I know full well what is required to burn CD's in UNIX. I've gone through the hair pulling getting it working in FreeBSD. In my experience, you have to do both - set suid on cdrecord and the other utilities and set the permissions on the cd devices. And you can paint it anyway you want, but set[ug]id is the equivalent of root, when it comes to the binary in question.

      I'm don't use linux, but Google tells me the same is required for it.

      Technically, full Administrator rights are not required to burn CD's in Windows either. The proper permissions can be handed down to regular users. I just havn't bothered to do it in Windows, because I do most of my burning from BSD.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    70. Re:MOD PARENT UP by julesh · · Score: 1

      Yes. The problem is that when you draw a metafile, you can include in the metafile an instruction that tells GDI to execute a callback function in the application.

      So, the flaw might be in GDI, but the context the exploit code runs in is that of the application, with lowered priveleges active if the app is using them.

    71. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      OK, your post contains no facts, just an assumption that everyone will go along with it. Yeah, sure, I'll believe you.

    72. Re:MOD PARENT UP by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      > It only takes one person to figure it out,

      Exactly what happened with the Windows version.

      What you Mac people consistently fail to grasp is that it is quite easy to trojan any computer system when the person is installing something they think they want. Most of the spyware/virus problem on Windows is the result of an intentional user action. And OSX does nothing to stop people from doing what they think they want to do.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    73. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Exactly what happened with the Windows version.

      Six months later. As for the rest of your comment, you seem to have ignored the actual content of the thread.

    74. Re:MOD PARENT UP by toadlife · · Score: 1

      "Take out IE and crap from the kernel. There is no excuse for a virus running as an image with SYSTEM authority. None."

      Not sure what propganda you are reading, but IE is not in the kernel and the vulnerability in this story in does not lead to an escalation of privledges. If a regular use gets hit with this exploit, the exploit code only gets the rights of the user.

      "Default user setting is very limited. Right now windows doesn't even warn you (SP2) if you put a blank password as administrator. W-T-F?"

      I agree, but by default, accounts in XP with blank passwords cannot be used to connect to the machine remotely. This doesn't solve the problem of exploit code listing the local users and trying to log on as them with blank passwords, and therfore escalating privledges. But IMO, even if everyone ran as a regular user, the malware problems in Windows would not decrease one bit, because malware authors simply would write their wares to install and run in the local users space.

      Just wait. Vista will ship soon with all account being restricted by default and everyone will think it's going to solve the virus problem. The only thing it will do is make the viruses easier to clean up.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    75. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Sabriel · · Score: 1
      Have you ever actually tried to run Windows XP as a non-admin user? You can't install any new USB devices, and on about 1/2 of the devices I've tried, you need admin rights to plug them in whether or not the drivers have been previously installed. I tried to set my dad up that way, and after about a day we both agreed it was hopeless. He's got a digital camera, card reader, printer/scanner, and VoIP headset all of which need Admin rights *JUST TO BE PLUGGED IN*. It's not a policy mistake if the "correct" policy prevents the computer from being useful.
      You are mistaken, or lying. I regularly plug in USB (and Firewire) devices as a non-Admin user and they work fine.
      I too have had the hassle of dealing with USB devices that refuse to run under non-Admin accounts. Just because the devices you've used work, doesn't mean every other device will too. I hereby flunk you in Logic 101; please take the course again.
    76. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      Just because the devices you've used work, doesn't mean every other device will too.

      Nor did I suggest otherwise.

      I hereby flunk you in Logic 101; please take the course again.

      Ah, the irony. From the post I responded to:

      You can't install any new USB devices [...]
    77. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Ayende+Rahien · · Score: 1

      Control Panel - runas /user:admin control
      Add Remove Programs - runas /user:admin appwiz.cpl

      --

      --
      Two witches watched two watches.
      Which witch watched which watch?
    78. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Heh. Hoist with my own petard, that'll learn me. :)

    79. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      No worries. Nice to see someone remaining civil, even when I'm being a bit short.

      Cheers.

    80. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Nick+Number · · Score: 1

      Ah, I didn't see that "Launch folder windows in a separate process" had to be set on the target account. Thanks for the link.

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
  24. Keydrive by QuaintRealist · · Score: 1

    As another reply noted, you could use SAMBA, but the easiest way for me is to save them to a USB key drive.

    --
    Using plain ol' text since 1968
    1. Re:Keydrive by mgpeter · · Score: 1

      If you have VMWare-tools installed in the guest Operating System (aka the virutal pc) then you can simply drag and drop files between your Host OS and the Virtual OS.

      It is that simple.

  25. RootKit Revealer by aka_big_wurm · · Score: 3, Informative
    1. Re:RootKit Revealer by GigsVT · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can't prove a rootkit doesn't exist on your system, unless you have a checksum database on read only media, and some sort of hardware (not firmware) method of computing those checksums.

      You can't even be reasonably sure of it without at least some checksumming system like tripwire.

      All you are doing is scanning for certain known rootkits. That's a weak strategy that's reactive and guaranteed to fail some of the time.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:RootKit Revealer by jayloden · · Score: 1

      Actually, RootkitRevealer doesn't scan for known rootkits...it scans for common signs of a rootkit in general (hidden registry keys or inconsistent data, for instance). That's not to say you're wrong, but I just wanted to point out that RootkitRevealer is a little more clever than just scanning for known rootkits :)

    3. Re:RootKit Revealer by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's still scanning for known techniques.

      chkrootkit is the same way, it has some generic heuristics like the /proc process list not matching up with what ps returns.

      A new rootkit that doesn't rely on any old techniques wouldn't show up.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    4. Re:RootKit Revealer by saifatlast · · Score: 1

      That's a weak strategy that's reactive and guaranteed to fail some of the time.

      Dear God! A security strategy that isn't 100% effecttive, 100% of the time?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't regist
    5. Re:RootKit Revealer by laptop006 · · Score: 1

      That's not how rootkit revealer works.

      It scans for differences between what system calls reveal, and what low level device access reveals. Due to the slowdown and potential for crashes that low level interception would cause the theory is that all rootkits can be seen this way.

      --
      /* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
    6. Re:RootKit Revealer by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between might fail sometimes, and guaranteed to fail under conditions that the attacker can design and test for.

      If I were writing rootkits, I know I'd get all these scanners and make sure my new kit wasn't detectable by any of them.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  26. Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1, Funny

    I dislike MS as much as anyone else on Slashdot; however, is this a Windows XP flaw or is it just an Internet Explorer/Outlook flaw? Unless I missed it when I read (okay, skimmed) TFA, the article implies that Windows XP is the problem. Looks more to me like it's an IE/Outlook flaw.

    I run Firefox and Eudora on XP in addition to Zone Alarm, Ad-Aware, Spybot, and McAfee AV. My wife uses Firefox and Thunderbird. IE is used only on those web sites that require it (which are very, very, very, few) and I uninstall Outlook from every PC. Will I be infected just because I'm running XP? I highly doubt it. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but my doubt factor is nearly maximum. That does not downgrade the severity threat. After all, Firefox, Thunderbird, and Eudora are in a very small minority of Windows users' favorite applications. Believe me, I love to see Microsoft dragged through the mud when possible, but let's at least keep it realistic.

    This clearly is a slow news week. The anti-Bush-administration people are making an issue over an NSA web cookie and now we're blaming an entire operating system for application flaws. (I know the whole argument about IE and Outlook being integrated into the operating system, but I still don't see this as an operating system issue if other apps on the same operating system are not vulnerable.)

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Mikelikus · · Score: 1

      It's a windows flaw. You're vulnerable even with firefox/eudora.

      --
      -- Would it be acceptable to just put my name on my sig?
    2. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Cyphertube · · Score: 1

      If you open the .wmf file at all on Windows XP, you will be infected.

      --
      Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
    3. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The flaw is in the WMF image decoding library, which is part of the operating system. You can still be infected if you are using browsers other than IE provided they attempt to render WMFs. In fact, if you are running Google Desktop Search it's possible to be infected should a nasty WMF somehow end up on your system (in a browser cache for example) as the exploit will be executed when Desktop Search attempts to index the file.

    4. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would even be careful running the software you've listed - McAfee AV has an interesting little habit of deleting less-than-legitimate applications and claiming that they are infected when they are not. My specific case - when I tried using McAfee AV when Comcast offered it for free, it deleted the setup file for DVDDecrypter claiming it was loaded with spyware. The deletion occured even though I had McAfee setup to quarantine files, not delete them. Neither current versions of Symantec AV nor Spybot nor Adaware tagged the file as having any spyware when I used them against a re-downloaded copy.

    5. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by covertbadger · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should read the article properly before ranting. It's an XP flaw, and you can still get caught if you're using Firefox.

    6. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > is this a Windows XP flaw or is it just an Internet Explorer/Outlook flaw?

      It is not an IE/OE flaw, although the flaw is significantly exacerbated by IE/OE's default behavior of automatically opening everything without prompting the user. However, the vulnerability is in the picture-viewer application that comes with Windows and is the default way to view several common image types, including .jpg and .wmf among others. Most of the current exploits are abusing the IE/OE automatic-display feature get the image displayed (and thus, the exploit code executed), but if you use the Win32 version of Lynx as your browser, save one of the malicious .wmf image in the My Documents folder, and try to open it in the picture viewer that you find under All Programs->Accessories (IIRC), you'll get infected.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    7. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by CheeseTroll · · Score: 1

      As others have mentioned, this is a WinXP issue, not just IE or Outlook. But even if it were limited to IE, Eudora may not be as safe as you'd like to think, since Eudora uses IE code to render HTML-formatted emails. See http://email.about.com/cs/eudoratips/qt/et122001.h tm for more info.

      --
      A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
    8. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Perhaps you should read the article properly before ranting. It's an XP flaw

      Good advice.

      From TFA:
      "Operating system versions ranging from the current Windows XP to Windows 98 are affected."

    9. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      is this a Windows XP flaw or is it just an Internet Explorer/Outlook flaw?

      What's the difference?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by someone300 · · Score: 1

      The flaw is still present in XP, so you could say it's an "XP flaw" ;)

    11. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      in addition to Zone Alarm, Ad-Aware, Spybot, and McAfee AV

      Why is this acceptable? I find that people don't even question why they need this stuff an don't realize how much overhead it adds. The virus sofware alone adds processor overhead as it scans files being downloaded or accessed and you have to keep it all up to date or its not so useful. I know that no system is perfect, but at least the systems I use (OS X, Ubuntu) run most processes under a less priveledged account.

      You may think this is nuts, but I set my sister up with Ubuntu using DSL with no firewall. Ubuntu's default install doesn't listen on any ports, so why should I add a firewall and the complexity it brings? The nice thing about this is that her machine has a real IP address so networking programs (Gnomemeeting) work very nicely without having to deal with NAT workarounds and such.

      I think the biggest advantage for Unix like systems is that user programs (e.g. Firefox) are run under the user's account, not a priveledged account. Windows could do this too, but the current state of applications prevents it. I've tried running as a normal user on Windows and it is painful as many apps don't work.

      What about viruses, trojans, etc. on Unixy systems. Let's talk about Ubuntu specifically. The most obvious case to me is a program expoit. Say Firefox has an exploit that allows a site to run some code. Becaue Firefox is running as a normal user, the code would only have that user's level of access, unless that user had something stupid setup like sudo with no password. The user could lose their home directory, but more than likely as history has shown, the attacker would want to run a viral program. How is that possible? If a long running proccess is executed, it will be gone on a reboot. A crontab entry could be entered. That's not so hard to check. It seems to me that without full system access viruses are not likely? I think trojans on the other hand are a social trick not handled by OS security. If a user says, yes I want to install this and enters their password, what can an OS do? I guess this is the place for trojan detectors, but I think that's the price (in $ for the software) you pay for being stupid.

      For the reasons mentioned above, if this vulnerability were present on Ubuntu or OS X or the likes, I don't think it would be exploited because the exploiter could not profit from it. Still serious because s/he could say rm -rf ~/, but again, no profit so I don't think it would be exploited.

      I'm curious to hear thoughts on this.
    12. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by CDOS_CDOS+run · · Score: 1

      So do I need to point out that Outlook is not in any way shape or form part of any Windows OS? Outlook is an add on software product. You need to purchase outlook. You may be thinking of outlook express which is not the same software as outlook.

    13. Re:Can we get some non-shoot-from-hip news? by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Unless, of course, you don't have it index your browser cache.

      Which most sane people do not let it do.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  27. Same thing by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

    Although in my case, I was even dumber... I was surfing with firefox, but the web page that (apparently) had what I needed refused to render, so I grudingly started up IE, and... well, some of what it downloaded set off Norton, luckily. I was already late getting to bed that night, by the time I cleared out everything (including that irritating "Spyware blocker" ad they put on my desktop & kept re-spawning) I pretty much got no sleep that night. So I finally decided to lock out access to IE on my normal XP login, to protect me from my sleep-deprived self.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:Same thing by fimbulvetr · · Score: 1

      http://ubuntulinux.org/

      So you can sleep at night...

    2. Re:Same thing by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1
      > So I finally decided to lock out access to IE on my normal XP login, to protect me from my sleep-deprived self

      Excellent choice! Now only the administrator account can run IE!

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Same thing by drownie · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up!

      --
      *an infinite number of monkeys wrote this sig
    4. Re:Same thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      So I finally decided to lock out access to IE on my normal XP login

      START=>RUN=>iexplore

  28. I shouldnt say this but ... by oztiks · · Score: 1

    If it can be embedded into webpage cant it also be embedded in actual emails? Its true that loads of email apps stop images from being viewed but there are a fair few that dont.

  29. Uploads by jaredmauch · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Well, ideally the browser has some hooks in place to protect the user somewhat, but the challenge becomes when you have a few million users where they want to upload digitial pics to granny and don't understand what a "share" is. There's also all those java apps that actually do fancy things. You really need to make it consumer friendly. That's what the Mozilla teams have done with their auto-importing of IE favorites, etc..

    My browser touches all sorts of things in the host OS, from the sound card to files that I upload and download. Luckily when I get AIM spam for foo.exe or some other sillyness I don't get far unless I type 'wine foo.exe', then even then ;-)

    The true challenge is how to dial in the security to a reasonable level. Problem is getting all the millions of programmers to adopt more secure standards combined with the users, IT managers, etc.. that deploy the apps on desktops. Then, getting that out across the millions of home users too. Daunting task.

    1. Re:Uploads by COMON$ · · Score: 1
      Now you are talking about a different app. We are talking about web browsers here. If you want granny to be able to share pictures via the web you would be better off using gallery, with gallery remote.

      I wouldnt go blaming the programmers either...well completely... you may or may not have been around when the browser wars started but it used to be that you had to follow a set of strict rules to code a decent web site. After the dust settled and IE was left as the standard, these rules became more of guidelines. I would say that IE is the main reason that we have so many vulnerabilities on the net. Not because it in itself is insecure but because of what it taught programmers. The browser wars allowed an atmosphere where security and good programming didnt matter. What mattered was getting a website built that could be put up quickly and cheaply. Programmers took advantage of their environment and made a lot of money off of it.

      Why write great code when you can slap something together in a quarter of the time and it looks the same?

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
    2. Re:Uploads by jaredmauch · · Score: 1
      Grandma isn't going to have gallery-remote installed on their system, they have the big blue E.

      As far as the rest, yes, I've been around the block for a few years, enough to remember archie, gopher, and when people started talking about this http thing. There was even something like Mosaic and some other stuff that would use a default home page of home.mcom.com

      But nobody is going to download a swath of applications to interact with their photo sites (eg: flickr, shutterfly, etc..).. well, unless they're well done like the ITMS (iTunes Media Store), but that has custom DRM requirements with it.

      For better or worse, the browser continues to move into the realm of universal-internet-app, no more FTP, Usenet, etc.. people are just moving it all to file (up|down)load over HTTP and RSS instead of news feeds. Now, I'm happy with the sexyness of stuff like maps.google, and the evolution that has happened, but file transfers have stayed the same (basically).

    3. Re:Uploads by COMON$ · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I agree with you, but having an all-in-one browser is just keeping people from thinking. People need to learn to apply the same basic knowledge about the non-computer world to the virtual world. When you buy a car, you get something with style that you can afford. When you want a cup of coffee you buy a coffee machine. When you want to take a picture you buy a camera. You dont go out and buy a car that brews coffee, takes pictures, and does your dishes automatically.

      This thinking doesnt require a paradigm shift, just an application of thought. As long as we have tools out there that will keep the average Jo from thinking, he wont.

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  30. Older versions of Firefox doesnt help by pissu_man · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those who are ranting about FF. Read the article, says that older versions of Opera and FF are vulnarable too - on Windows ofcourse.

    1. Re:Older versions of Firefox doesnt help by Helmholtz · · Score: 1

      That's a bit of a minomer, I think. Technically neither Firefox, Opera, or Internet Explorer are vulnerable. The Windows .dll that handles the rendering of .wmf files is vulnerable. So any program, be it a web browser, a google indexing app, or a recipie maker, that calls the exploitable Windows .dll in order to load an infected .wmf file will end up opening the Pandora's Box.

      --
      RFC2119
    2. Re:Older versions of Firefox doesnt help by pissu_man · · Score: 1

      Oh really!? In that case the comment about not using older versions of Firefox is moot? So why is everyone going on about using Firefox (old or new)? Looks like there is no escape for average Windows users.

    3. Re:Older versions of Firefox doesnt help by LnxAddct · · Score: 1

      You're right in that there is no escape for average windows users, but using newer versions of Opera and Firefox you are prompted first (or so one of the articles claimed). I can only presume that they check for corrupted files first or something.
      Regards,
      Steve

  31. Windows Major Foul-Up by spellraiser · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Larry Seltzer has a concise column about this exploit, where he doesn't exactly pull the punches on Microsoft. The most interesting piece of information there is this:

    The problem with the WMF (Windows Metafile) file format turns out to be one of those careless things Microsoft did years ago with little or no consideration for the security consequences.

    Almost all exploits you read about are buffer overflows of some kind, but not this one. WMF files are allowed to register a callback function, meaning that they are allowed to execute code, and this is what is being exploited in the WMF bug.

    I find this mind-boggling to the point of absurdity. Regardless of any supposed benefit gained by this, allowing a data file to execute arbitrary code upon it being viewed is simply begging for an exploit like this. No matter whan spin Microsoft will try to put on this one, it makes them look bad. Extremely bad.

    --
    I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
    1. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by o_miljac · · Score: 0

      Assume this sheds a new light on the ODF crap that Microsoft is trying to sell - who says that the same does not apply to their Office formats ? :-)

    2. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of "data" executes code. AKA Macros. The WMF libraies were written in a time before we had to deal with virus punks and a connected world. It was when the biggest threat to Windows was installing Quicktime!

      What Microsoft is at fault for, is one most of us who have written software are at fault for. Creating incomplete documentation for every function. For all the work to improve security, it is likely no one knew this "feature" was in the WMF libraries.

      Let he who knows the future while writing perfect code cast the first stone.

    3. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It reminds me of problems a long time ago with Display Postscript, which, in addition to drawing, was also a full-blown programming language that had access to the filesystem. There were some early exploits that took advantage of this (on the few systems that employed DPS), but the solution was simple -- keep the functionality there, in theory, but have a default context that disabled the filesystem functions and other insecure operations in any program which dealt with insecure data (e.g., e-mail or web browser). To get the functionality back (it was sometimes useful), you had to hand-code a different DPS context from what the OS provided as a standard, which meant a programmer had to go out of their way to be intentionally insecure.

    4. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Microsoft's biggest problem has never been 'lack of security' (although lack of security is a symptom of their biggest problem) regardless of what Linux/Mac fans seem to think; the problem with Microsoft is that they have become so large that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. This is a problem because the effect of a set of changes that are designed to increase functionality (like adding Macros, plugins, etc.) are difficult to consider on a 'global' scale; everyone who was adding the WMF functionality could have told you that this could happen, but they probably never expected this data to be viewable from the web.

      I have said it before and I will say it again, in the future more people are going to start to recognize that code re-use (and code theft) can become more costly than creating code from scratch because often you do not recognize the assumptions that were made when developing the code; WMF probably became web viewable because someone wanted a small portion of its functionality and re-used the code rather than starting from scratch.

    5. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by hey! · · Score: 1

      allowing a data file to execute arbitrary code upon it being viewed is simply begging for an exploit like this

      Yes, deliberately allowing a data file to execute arbitrary code is stupid.

      However preventing a piece of software from interpreting a cleverly constructed data file as a program is harder than it sounds. Thanks to Dr. von Neumann, programs are data, and share certain common pathways in all modern general purpose computer architectures. Programmers have to consciously avoid problems of this sort when using low level languages like C. The rule has to be never process data from an a source that you can't verify is trustworthy without analyzing it first. That's a tall order.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by julesh · · Score: 2

      Regardless of any supposed benefit gained by this, allowing a data file to execute arbitrary code upon it being viewed is simply begging for an exploit like this.

      You have to understand that WMF files developed from a facility in the Windows GDI that allowed an application to capture a sequence of calls to GDI functions in order to replay them quickly at a later point (e.g., if the application is requested to redraw the content of its window). Having done this, developers then asked "what happens if I dump the data generated by this function into a file, and load it back in later?" and lo and behold it worked. That's what a WMF file *is*: a set of instructions saying "call this function with these parameters".

      What's *really* mind-bogglingly stupid is that MS have set up Internet Explorer and Outlook so that they render this format.

    7. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1

      This is not just a Microsoft issue. Adobe's PDF format is a descendant of PostScript. PostScript is a full-on programming language itself. I once wrote a fractal generator in raw PostScript in college for a design class. It would lock up the lab printer for hours before spitting out a page.

      There are plenty of other examples where the "document"format consists of executable instructions of some type (Flash immediately comes to mind).

    8. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by cpu_fusion · · Score: 1

      This is just standard Microsoft Philosophy.

      When attending a seminar on Microsoft Exchange (or a precursor) back in ~1995/1996 (dates escape me) we had a Microsoft representative tell the audience about a "feature" that would allow Visual Basic to run "forms" that people could send each other in your office.

      I asked the rep if the VB forms had any restrictions on what they could do. NO! he bragged; it was so powerful. Your business could automate so many things. I asked, "what's to stop one person from creating a VB form that looked like a football pool, but actually took over their computer?" The guy looked at me like I was nuts. His words, and I directly quote: "if you have that kind of problem in your organization, then you've got bigger problems than this."

      I was shocked. This Microsoft employee was telling me that it wasn't their problem if their sh*tty security model allowed this kind of (obvious) exploit. I tried to follow up by saying, "well we don't just put our H.R. files in the hallway; it's basic security." But he cut me off, and took another question. I tried to follow up in person after the seminar, while the other folks were eating the rediculously expensively catered lunch (gotta love monopoly money), but he basically treated me like I was an ass. Fortunately, the other people there from my (Fortune 500 tech) company were similarly surprised, and we all had a good laugh. We thought "how can they do well in the mail server space with that attitude?" Answer: just fine.

      So folks, keep in mind that Microsoft doesn't really need to give a f*ck about these problems, because they don't get sued for them, they don't lose many customers from them, and they've got bigger and better things to do, like force another upgrade on the masses. (And I would bet dollars to donuts Vista will be riddled with holes.)

      It's a cultural thing: absolute power means everything else is other people's problems.

    9. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      allowing a data file to execute arbitrary code upon it being viewed is simply begging for an exploit like this.

      Sounds like postscript!

    10. Re:Windows Major Foul-Up by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But is this due to the size of Microsoft, or the nonmodularity of its code? If it wrote ,odular code, it would not have to worry about the global effects of code changes, because there wouldn't be any.

  32. IDS signatures by Cally · · Score: 5, Informative
    The Microsoft advisory says:
    ** Are there any third party Intrusion Detection Systems (IDS) that would help protect against attempts to exploit this vulnerability?

    While we don't know of specific products or services that currently scan or detect for attempts to render specially crafted WMF files, we are working with our partners through industry programs like VIA to provide information as we have it. . Customers should contact their IDS provider to determine if it offers protection from this vulnerability.

    Snort sigs have been available from BleedingSnort for some time now; I pushed them out to our corporate IDS yesterday morning.

    (Warning, mangled by Slashcode - remove newlines)

    #by mmlange alert tcp any any -> $HOME_NET any (msg:"BLEEDING-EDGE CURRENT WMF Exploit"; flow:established; content:"|01 00 09 00 00 03 52 1f 00 00 06 00 3d 00 00 00|"; content:"|00 26 06 0f 00 08 00 ff ff ff ff 01 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 00|"; reference: url,www.frsirt.com/exploits/20051228.ie_xp_pfv_met afile.pm.php; classtype:attempted-user; sid:2002734; rev:1;)

    # By Frank Knobbe, 2005-12-28 alert tcp $EXTERNAL_NET any -> $HOME_NET any (msg:"BLEEDING-EDGE EXPLOIT WMF Escape Record Exploit"; flow:established,from_server; content:"|01 00 09 00 00 03|"; depth:500; content:"|00 00|"; distance:10; within:12; content:"|26 06 09 00|"; within:5000; classtype:attempted-user; reference:url,www.frsirt.com/english/advisories/20 05/3086; sid:2002733; rev:1;)

    Once again it looks like Microsoft are going to escape the 'perfect exploit' meltdown by the skin of their teeth. This is exploitable remotely, but Dr Evil can't sit at a console typing in arbitrary IP addresses to 0wn with the exploit. On the other hand you can get close to that sort of thing using Metasploit Framework.

    --
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
    1. Re:IDS signatures by ccsp · · Score: 1

      Cisco Security Agent is a Host-Based IPS that will stop this exploit without signatures, but, rather, based on behavior. I tested a year-old version Cisco Security Agent against the Metasploit implementation, and CSA caught it every time, regardless of which payload I chose. CSA is also very good at preventing buffer and stack overflow exploits, and many others. Excellent zero-day protection!

    2. Re:IDS signatures by oasisbob · · Score: 1

      I work for the resnet of a public university with ~4000 on-campus students. I'm been testing these rules for the past day, and they're appearing reliable enough to tes them in conjuction with Snort's ability to tear down TCP connections by sending TCP reset packets. Snort does this by way of the flexresp post-detection option.

      So far, this is proving very effective at blocking WMF exploit files in the wild. Even if they are renamed with .doc, .jpg, etc extensions, the transfer will be reset once the signature matches.

    3. Re:IDS signatures by Cally · · Score: 1
      Update: Well, H.D. 'DCOM' Moore has done it again; see ISC.sans.org for the new exploit code that will apparently be harder for A/V, IDS and other sig-based systesm (are there any?) to spot.

      See also the info on false negatives if you're running with default stream reassembly config options.

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
  33. Firefox? by freg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could someone please elaborate on whether using Firefox browser will help avoid this security hole.

    1. Re:Firefox? by oztiks · · Score: 1

      no

    2. Re:Firefox? by jdbartlett · · Score: 1

      No, it won't.

    3. Re:Firefox? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can be infected whenever Windows uses its default image viewer to display certain image types. This means there is a long list of applications that are vulnerable that rely upon the image viewer code, but as far as I know no one has yet compiled that list. Windows uses this code when previewing images (for example). The current way this is being exploited is to tell your web browser to open an image (wmf and jpg that I have heard about) in the picture viewer. On IE, this behavior defaults to happening automatically. That means you go to a page and it installs whatever code it wants. With Firefox, you go to a page and a dialogue asks to open a .jpg or .wmf file. If you agree, it installs whatever, but if you decline you're in the clear.

    4. Re:Firefox? by BaltikaTroika · · Score: 2, Informative
      From TFA:

      "Because the vulnerability exists within a faulty Windows component, security experts warn that Windows users who eschew Internet Explorer in favor of alternative Web browsers, such as older versions of Firefox and Opera, can still get their PCs infected if they agree to download a file from a site taking advantage of the flaw."

      Baltika

    5. Re:Firefox? by aardwolf64 · · Score: 1

      I can't elaborate on that, but WindowsUpdate will help avoid the security hole. The patch is out, and has been out at least all of today.

    6. Re:Firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I made a test .html that had an link to a wmf (img src ="test.wmf"). IE displayed it. Firefox (1.5) showed a broken image icon. There was no prompting and I haven't changed anything in the firefox settings that would change whether it prompted or not.

      Now I also made a clickable link to the wmf in the html. When I click on THE LINK TO THE WMF firefox then tries to open it with windows media player (which fails).

      This is quite different eXPerience (at least in my opinion) than if you had a 1x1 infected wmf in a webpage and IE autoinfects you when you open it.

    7. Re:Firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oops i left out that firefox also prompted me before opening the wmf with media player, giving me the option to cancel. Changing the extension to .jpg made no difference (other than it stopped displaying in IE)

    8. Re:Firefox? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure quite what you're trying to say here. The exploits being used in the wild, as far as I have heard, are not embedding the .wmf with an img tag, but are invoking an auto-launch script when the page loads (sort of like you automatically click on it). Theoretically, a person could embed a 1x1 wmf file as you describe, but named with the .jpg extension, and IE would be infected, but that would make the exploit less effective against other browsers since Firefox would just show the image as a broken jpeg, rather than asking you to load it.

    9. Re:Firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm maybe. but if i'm a virus writer and i know that one way will get me all of the ie users infected without them being aware that anything even happened (also I could use this method in a html-encoded email for outlook/express), vs the other way where a lot of people will hit "cancel" or have the wrong app linked to the file type (on my computer, firefox tried to show the wmf using windows media player which could not do anything with it - and I had not set anything for that to happen).

      ie is still the most popular browser. outlook express is probably also the most popular email client.

      if you can get infected just by executing the wmf decoding module in windows, then this exploit is going to be used in a lot of different ways.

    10. Re:Firefox? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      hmm maybe. but if i'm a virus writer and i know that one way will get me all of the ie users infected without them being aware that anything even happened

      There still seems to be a misunderstanding. With an "auto-launch" IE does not ask anything and runs the wmf, resulting in the same behavior as if it was embedded in an img tag (with IE's default settings). The only practical difference between the two methods is that auto-launching has the potential to infect Firefox and possibly other browsers.

    11. Re:Firefox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't the user at least notice the app that is launched to handle the wmf being opened?

    12. Re:Firefox? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't the user at least notice the app that is launched to handle the wmf being opened?

      I don't think it gets that far. It auto-launches the file, which is handed to the graphics framework which sees it is a wmf and should then launch the player, but since the exploit basically allows the user to run a random script at this point, I don't think the player is ever actually opened. I don't really have a good VM to test this right now, I'm afraid, so I'm going by what I have read on the security forums so don't take this as gospel.

  34. Missing Option by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 3, Funny

    Windows XP Flaw 'Extremely Comical'

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  35. HOOORAY! by ninja_assault_kitten · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Let's hope there's something worse than Highly Critical! HOOORAY FOR SLASHDOT. WHAT A GLORIOUS WAY TO END 2005!

    PS!
    LINUX RULES!(*@(@^ #$

    PPS!
    I'M GOING TO SPEND NEW YEARS EVE ON IRC IF ANYONE WANTS TO JOIN ME!(@&

    1. Re:HOOORAY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well someone please help this patient back to his room?

  36. more serious by spacemky · · Score: 5, Informative

    And not only does the exploit work with .WMF (Windows MetaFile), but if the attacker renames it to, say, .JPG, Windows will detect this a really being a .WMF, and STILL execute it. Pretty serious stuff. See this bugtraq link for details.

    --
    640YB ought to be enough for anybody.
    1. Re:more serious by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      I just tried it, and it worked as the grandparent said. I have both wmf and jpg files associated with the "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer", and it doesn't care that my wmf file has a .jpg extension.

    2. Re:more serious by Animaether · · Score: 1

      Just confirming this... a directory with two WMF files.. one .wmf, the other .jpg - previews both just fine, generates thumbnais for both just fine.

  37. I was just thinking... by User+956 · · Score: 1

    I was just thinking.. I could really use an operating system with serious, critical flaws in, say, a car. Current cars just don't get me from point A to point B well enough.

    Maybe someone could make a car with embedded windows? That would be *awesome*!


    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:I was just thinking... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 1
      I was just thinking.. I could really use an operating system with serious, critical flaws in, say, a car. Current cars just don't get me from point A to point B well enough.

      Really? Because I was just thinking this is one more reason to laugh and point at people stupid enough to pay more for a car than a suburban single-family home.
      --
      Who did what now?
    2. Re:I was just thinking... by User+956 · · Score: 1

      Really? Because I was just thinking this is one more reason to laugh and point at people stupid enough to pay more for a car than a suburban single-family home.

      Where the hell are you living? Alabama?


      --
      The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    3. Re:I was just thinking... by Scoth · · Score: 1

      I'll be far more concerned when/if Windows is handling the base car functions - ABS, EFI, timing, traction control, etc. - than when it's just an addon. It might not be too bad if it's a completely separate, unnetworked system, but you know that if Windows ever was used for that it'd be part of a do-everything system including some sort of internet access or multi-car networking system. It'll be just like the old days when the rumors flew about viruses that blew up your monitor with improper refresh ratings, but this time you'll have viruses blowing up engines from over-revving, mis-timing, or other fun things :)

      Of course I'm being alarmist and worst-case, I still don't really see it actually happening. At least in a widespread manner. As it is I can avoid overly-computerized cars easily enough. Not that I could afford one even if I wanted one anyway :) Although, "Sorry, my car bluescreened" would be a fun excuse to try at work if late..

  38. Cool Web Search? by Chmcginn · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This has happened a lot in the spyware world - there's plenty of supposed "Spyware Removers" that either contain or were marketed with spyware, or show false positives in the "demo" version, forcing you to pay for the real version, which then 'clears' it all up for you. Even though plenty of people spent the money & got nothing, I haven't seen any news reports of anyone being charged for fraud in relation to these products...

    The CoolWebSearch family of malware has been around forever... one of the major effects of many of the versions is to replace any IE entry of "search.msn.com" or "www.google.com" with "www.coolwebsearch.com", a rather shitty search engine.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:Cool Web Search? by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      Forgot to add - a lot of the actual company you'd be sending money to operate outside of the U.S. If the country they're currently in doesn't have laws against this sort of behavior, it would be almost impossible to bring any kind of case against them - they're unlikey to be extradited from the Ukraine for a few thousand USD worth of fraud. (Unless, of course, they defrauded the wrong high-ranking government official, but that's another story.)

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    2. Re:Cool Web Search? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes but you can stop their ability to do money inside the united states.

      unless the individual customer wants to make transfers and convert to ukranian money.

  39. Re:Solution [fantom rather] by oztiks · · Score: 1

    yes i know i need to slow down cowboy!

  40. Helping friends and relatives with Windows? by UR30 · · Score: 1

    Friends and relatives ask more and more often to help with problems with PCs at home, because "you work in an IT company and know these things". Luckily I can point out that I'm using a Mac, and thus I can't help with virus protection issues or other Windows problems. But nevertheless I get phone calls all the time. Today I had a half-hour discussion with a relative about how having her pc serviced messed up the system.

    1. Re:Helping friends and relatives with Windows? by myBotPiko · · Score: 1

      The most annoying point is that when you tell them that you don't really know how to fix their problem they think that the neighbour teenage gamer who is using windows is much better than you when it comes to computers.

    2. Re:Helping friends and relatives with Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most annoying point is that when you tell them that you don't really know how to fix their problem they think that the neighbour teenage gamer who is using windows is much better than you when it comes to computers.

      I don't find that annoying at all as long as they don't come to me if the gamer messes up their system. Besides, I'm really a Windows user these days: I got off the MS treadmill about the time of Win98 when I saw direction they were taking an never looked back. I decided to focus on developing real skills rather than running in the Red Queen's Race. I still get suckered into fixing Windows boxes on a regular basis because I don't have a gaming neighbour to pawn the work off on.

      That said, I think I've developed two strategies:
      Complete noobs (like my mom):
      "Here's a working (Linux) PC. Have at it."

      People who insist on Windows:
      1) Give them a sheet of general instructions for removing infections and reducing the odds of recurrence.
      (restore from CD/restore partition, patch OS, make CDs, install FF and some other freeware).
      2) Give that to the querent saying "Here's how I would do it. If you want me to actually do this for you, It'll be 60 bucks."

      The first method worked perfectly until my brother decided that made my life too easy (He even removed the Knoppix CD). The good news is that I could just tell her that "I don't know what Bob did...talk to him" so he got to reap what he sowed :).

      I haven't tried the 2nd method yet but it seems to balance the need to offer some kind of support with the desire to make the user understand that removing a trojan is harder/more expensive than just not installing one in the first place.

  41. blasting? by dancallaghan · · Score: 1

    So they're "blasting out spam e-mails", eh? Well geez, I gotta get me one of them MTAs!

  42. Wouldn't that be Security through diversity? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Just like in biological systems the more diverse a community the less likely a single weakness will call massive damage.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Wouldn't that be Security through diversity? by Halfbaked+Plan · · Score: 1

      True, but I thought we were all supposed to switch to a GNU operating system.

      --
      resigned
    2. Re:Wouldn't that be Security through diversity? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually I am not a GNU zealot. Frankly I think RMS is a bit of a nut case. However as the grand parent pointed out Linux Distros tend to be pretty diverse. Throw in all flavors of BSD and you have a pretty diverse ecosystem of code. If you had 500 groups with the complete source to Windows all making special versions of Windows for this or that niche it would be just as diverse.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Wouldn't that be Security through diversity? by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      However as the grand parent pointed out Linux Distros tend to be pretty diverse.

      Linux distros tend to only be "diverse" in ways that are frustrating, rather than useful.

  43. At least I admitted it! by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    Hey, at least I admitted to skimming over the article, unlike those who don't even bother to click the link then come out with some major diatribe/lecture just on the summary. (And of course we all know how accurate Slashdot summaries have a tendency of being!)

    I'll also do something else very rare on Slashdot: MY BAD! I MISSED THAT PART OF IT! A Slashdot mea culpa! Who would have thought?!

    Besides, that doesn't preclude the fact that this is a slow news week so let the conspiracies abound! :P

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:At least I admitted it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually where I am it is not a slow newsweek at all. Handguns smuggled from the US were used in a number of shootings including the accidental (though gang-related) death of a fifteen-year-old girl on a busy Toronto street and anothers in Vancouver.

      This particular (the MS vuln) is big news because:
      1) It is a serious OS flaw.
      2) Even the AV researchers investigating it were getting caught by it.
      3) It is a zero-day exploit. That means that it was not discovered by a cooperative researcher who gave MS the three months or so they need to paper over it but by a virus author who did not.
      4) It is very easy to exploit.

      In of itself we all know that the discovery of a major flaw in Windows is no more newsworthy than an increase in the price of gas however, unless you avail yourself of one of the workarounds or are unusually careful in your browsing, your system is likely to get infected before MS gets their act together.

  44. A link would be nice by NotFamous · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How come no-one ever includes a link to an infected site. I'm surfing with Firefox under Linux and I would just like to check out some of the infected sites so I can look at the source to see what they are doing. Links anyone? P.S., windoze users please don't click the link.

    --
    Some settling may occur during posting.
    1. Re:A link would be nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of these will probably have something nasty in them, pick the spammiest looking ones

      http://www.google.com/search?q=warez+ru

      http://www.google.com/search?q=crackz+ru

    2. Re:A link would be nice by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 1

      http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/archive-12 2005.html#00000754 --- Several sites listed there. I also found a site last night while searching for, of all things, internet tetris clones. Luckily FF prompted for download, but yeah...if you google for "tetris", it was one of the first 3 or 4 to come up (YMMV, result order may have changed by now.)

      --
      Unpleasantries.
    3. Re:A link would be nice by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 1

      And now that I think of it, you could also try using google image search for *.wmf, however that would probably be -incredibly- stupid, if reports that you only need to have the image displayed are accurate.

      --
      Unpleasantries.
    4. Re:A link would be nice by wraith0x29a · · Score: 1

      I tried Google image search for .wmf but Google removes the '.' in '.wmf' so you end up with hundreds of hits with 'wmf' in the non-extension part of the filename - and Google only index gif, jpeg and png for image search afaik.

      --
      ~ Better a freak than a sheep. ~
    5. Re:A link would be nice by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 1

      You're doing it wrong. Type *.wmf

      --
      Unpleasantries.
  45. Re: exploit and Irfanview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't bet on Irfanview being immune to the exploit (which has been around, I suspect, for quite a while now, stealthily -- read on.)

    A year or two ago, I d'led a porno movie file (wmf? wmv? avi?) from a notorious P2P site, during the time many corrupt and adware-infested files were being distributed. Like you, I thought Irfanview would protect me and went through the stuff deleting adware and such, when my box crashed hard instantly one file was opened.

    Rebooting windows through lilo, I found windows had been hosed completely. I couldn't even get to a DOS prompt without a boot diskette. Using linux, I tried to fix the windows side, to no avail. I had to reinstall the entire OS.

    My point is Irfanview is not a palliative for this type of exploit.

  46. What other Potential Attack Vectors are There by putko · · Score: 1

    The problem seems to be that Windows handles these files (WMFs) in the OS.

    What other files get interpreted in "Ring 0" by the OS, besides these WMFs?

    E.g. I know that ".doc" and ".xls" files don't -- but if they did, a bad spreadsheet would allow an attacker to root the box.

    I'm looking for an encyclopedic description of all windows files that are interpreted with highest priviledge.

    Thanks.

    --
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
  47. Maybe a Windows Flaws Section is needed? by webweave · · Score: 1

    I for one will be exploiting this flaw in my continued effort to replace windows machines at my clients and another link to the problems of running a stand alone single user OS in the internet world would be appreciated. I've been installing *nix OSes since '98 and I'm still waiting for the day when that vulnerability comes by that can't be handled or there is no patch for.

    What's an MCSE worth? Less than half my rate and I have more time to work for other clients because most of my calls can be fixed over the net. How about this, let's have a race to totally rebuild a production machine or back up a running machine or even to find all the users files and move them to a new machine.

    --The best way to accelerate Windows is at -9.8 m/s^2

    1. Re:Maybe a Windows Flaws Section is needed? by Inthewire · · Score: 0

      I'm still waiting for the day when that vulnerability comes by that can't be handled or there is no patch for.

      Hmm...

      --


      Writers imply. Readers infer.
  48. POLA by rbrewer123 · · Score: 1

    What you are describing is the Principle Of Least Authority. PLASH (Principle Of Least Authority SHell) is a nifty project to tackle this at the application level for Linux http://plash.beasts.org/. HP Labs has a project called Polaris which does this for windows http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/mmsl/projects/adv/p olaris.html.

  49. Depends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    If you come across this, you SHOULD get a dialog saying whether or not you want to open a WMF file (Save/Open/Cancel).

    However, if you configured FF such that the dialog no longer comes up (automatically opens files in default viewers), you're screwed.

    Also, there was a post back on Wednesday from a guy saying that he did, in fact, click "Cancel" but still got infected...

  50. and in other news by griffindj · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    4 out of 5 doctor's agree that Cancer is serious

  51. If Windows Were Open Sourced by xdc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If they were forced to make their software OSS (which might actually happen in Europe), they would be pretty much forced to patch their software VERY quickly.

    FWIW, I think it would be a big mistake to force Microsoft or any other vendor to open source their product. Such a dangerous precedent would be akin to forcing OSS to be closed, which could then be attempted further down the road if political opinions shift against OSS.

    That said, I agree that given time, it is plausible that the security of Windows would be better if it were open sourced rather than not.

    1. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by dwandy · · Score: 1
      Such a dangerous precedent would be akin to forcing OSS to be closed, which could then be attempted further down the road if political opinions shift against OSS.
      uh ... how exactly would that work? Even if you could legislate that sharing source code was illegal (good luck) in which country would you do this? As OSS is multinational, the most you could do is make OSS illegal in the US, to the detriment of the US and only the US. MS on the otherhand is an American company and if they were required to open/publish their source they would have to...
      Forcing MS to open the code is do-able. Making OSS illegal in the US is do-able. Closing OSS is impossible.
      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    2. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest problem with windows is that most users surf the Net under a Root account or "Administrator" account. This is why the majority of the problems occur. If users would only surf under a "limited" account then half of the problems would not occur. However, the reason for surfing under an "Administrator" account, most of the time, is that a lot of Windows based games require administrator privilages in order to run. The only thing it would take to fix this problem is to add a "managed" account to windows. Then the user could enter an "administrator" password in order to allow games to run. Ofcourse Microsatin is to lazy or stupid to figure this out.

    3. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 4, Informative

      Games should not be doing the kind of things that need Administrator privilege to do!

      They have no business doing that, people without Admininstrator should be able to play, anything running as Administrator (or in that group) can do great damage (e.g. virus infections, file deletion, even destroy the BIOS), and doing things that require Administrator wrongly can also trash the system (accidently corrupting a DLL, locking up hardware, etc).

      There is a RunAs on Windows, and it is useful for doing sys admin stuff only when needed. It would be nice if it could be configured that a browser run by Administrator (lets say to need to Google for a solution to a problem you are working on) would drop privs (but even Linux doesn't do that).

      But my main point is games and other user programs should need Administrator.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    4. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by baadger · · Score: 1

      Running as a limited user doesn't prevent the user from executing something malicious, something setting itself up to run on startup, a key logger or other trickware reporting home, or anything that exploits Windows from effecting other user accounts via elevated priveleges.

      More importantly it doesn't help protect any of your data (which will have been created and therefore accessible as said limited user).

      Whether your machine get's hosed is a bit moot, spyware and malware does the worst of it's damage by exploiting the user, not the machine.

    5. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by ballwall · · Score: 1

      I'm not really sure about this argument. It's used a lot to support Linux as a secure OS.

      If I'm running Linux (which I do), and running firefox as a user (which I also do), if there's a bug in firefox and I get infected about the only things malware CAN'T do is open privledged ports or overwrite system files. It could easily start up automatically by putting something in my .bashrc or .xinitrc, it could send spam, it could wipe out all of my important files (/etc is important, by not as much as /home/me).

      So my question is, where does the seperation between user and admin help me on a single user pc?

    6. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by 0racle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How many people actually watch what their package manager installs. Or actually looks at the running processes that are chugging away on their Linux box. Far too many people, I would even say most, believe they are and always will be invulnerable to anything simply because the logo for their OS is a penguin.

      To answer your question, its not unless you make regular backups of your important data. If you made backups the system itself would be unaffected and you would have save versions of your important files. A simple wipe and restore of /home/me would give you back a running system. Assuming you didn't simply over-write your backups with an infected version.

      The short of it is, a system is only as secure as the expertise of the person running it allows it to be. Simply running 'Geek OS flavor of the month' does not make you secure.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    7. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by gutnor · · Score: 1

      It is the same in windows, even with User only access you can still do all the thing everyday user do (i.e. connecting the web, deleting MyDocs, ... )

      However, on Windows, Virus/Malware developer fall for the same sin than regular developer and develop thinking that the user has administrator privilege ( so, can install thing in C:\Windows, access LOCAL_MACHINE config in the registry, ... ) meaning most of them doesn't work if not used as Admin.

      To answer your question, under linux/mac os, you are safe whatever your config on linux/mac os, since windows is too good as a target ( it has the very large majority of the market, highest level of Joe User, a very strong malware developer community, and a continous flow of ... hum ... "opportunities" )

      For windows user, you are safe if you run as a User as long as the biggest PC vendor like DELL, Toshiba, HP drive the mono-user tradition with their default config.

    8. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by miket · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if it could be configured that a browser run by Administrator (lets say to need to Google for a solution to a problem you are working on) would drop privs (but even Linux doesn't do that).

      Vista will do this. IE will run in a sandbox that limits its ability to change the system configuation and state. This is true even if the user is running as an administrator.

      --
      Imagination is more important than knowledge. --Albert Einstein
    9. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by wcb4 · · Score: 1

      Microsatin

      This might have been a great line, if you had spelled satan correctly.

      --
      I reject your reality ... and substitute my own.
    10. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Hopefully *all* software will do this even if you're logged into an administrator account.

      It should be secure by default - it should not grant software permission to access admin rights unless the administrator has set an ACL giving it those rights.

    11. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by pomo+monster · · Score: 1

      Wiping out your personal files wouldn't be nearly as bad as forwarding them to everyone in your address book, or so I've always thought. I'm just waiting for the day a worm author catches onto this simple fact.

    12. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Even worse than that is business applications. Take Quickbooks for example. Install it as a limited user. It will install just fine. Now try to run it. Bzzzt! You get a dialog saying effectively "Hi, we are lazy sacks so you have to be root so you can enjoy easy infestation of viruses and spyware. Thanks for buying our product." (okay, it just tells you that you need to be an Administrator to run but the end result is the same)

      This is bad for corporate environments, especially since nontechnical folks invariably ignore IT/MIS and open every. single. attachment. that comes their way.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    13. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by kimvette · · Score: 1

      1. You back up ~ regularly - at least you have a cron job to tar or dar it frequently (if you don't, do it now)
      2. You are not a member of root and you don't log in as root for anything but admin-type things, right?
      3. you don't have /etc set to oh, say, 777, do you?

      So ~/.bashrc gets hit. BFD - restore your latest backup.

      Or, if you don't have a backup but you know your home directory got exploited. Easy solution:

      mv /home/foo /bar
      mkdir /home/foo
      log in
      copy known-good files over, after scanning with chkrootkit, rkhunter, clamav, and perhaps even trend micro's java-based house call

      Problem solved.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    14. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by kimvette · · Score: 1

      But the problem here is that the default user account you create has administrator privileges. Sure, the actual Administrator account may be locked outside of safe mode by default, but with the default user being a computer administrator any virus/worm/scumware has access to the group policy editor - or even just the relavent registry keys - and can enable administrator login with no password, leaving two holes in place.

      Until Microsoft further locks down Windows and takes on a more *nix-like approach, this problem will continue to exist - and the unfortunate thing is that doing so would break so many business apps and games (affecting corporate and home enviromments alike) that doing so is impractical.

      However if Microsoft is switching to a *nix-like kernel after Vista (I've read rumors that they are - I tend to disbelieve the rumors but it would be a great thing for M$ to do) then it will be a good time to cut the cord on backwards compatibility - or at least sandbox compatibility in a VirtualPC instance.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    15. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but basically the uber security of user files (what most home users actually care about) in Linux is the same as any drive image program for any OS.

      If I get infected on Windows XP, I don't care, I don't try and clean it or whatever. I just restore the last drive image prior to getting infected.

      So basically, there isn't any more security by design in Linux (aside from the obvious use a limited account) - and all the security things basically come down to moving to drive images for backups.

      So, system restore was a good idea, but MS didn't take it far enough.

      IMHO, what we need is either the equivilent of Acronis TI built in and set up, with AV indicating to restore the last backup rather than attempting to clean shit, or far more granular permissions - per process read/write/execute permissions, with a front end home users can attempt... And, every damn thing needs to be whitelisted.

      More like Zone Alarm or Outpost, and less like group policy edits. Hell, I'd do group policy style stuff if I could do it with one XP Pro box by itslef, and if there was useful help to do so.

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    16. Re:If Windows Were Open Sourced by xdc · · Score: 1

      The AC to whom I was replying suggested that Europe might force Windows to open up. I am not sure how likely this is, but I merely wanted to say that it would be a Bad Thing if Europe or any other influential government were to prevail in such a manner.

      Naturally, once source code is distributed, it cannot be taken back. I was not thinking in terms of all OSS being declared illegal, but rather the hypothetical scenario of a specific product's licensing terms being altered, as would be the case if Microsoft were obligated to open up Windows, or if GPLed code were permitted to be included in closed-source software, within a specific jurisdiction. Although OSS is usually multinational, its developers and users could be severely impacted by bad legal decisions, especially of their own country.

      IANAL. I am just pondering some what-ifs, which hopefully are wrong and ridiculous and wouldn't happen.

  52. Le plus ca change... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The vulnerabilities will come, a couple of them a week, for years and years...until people stop looking for them. Waiting six months isn't going to make this OS [Windows XP] safer.

    Bruce Schneier, January 2002

    1. Re:Le plus ca change... by frankm_slashdot · · Score: 1

      plus c'est la meme chose?

      Rush fan much?

      why am i responding to an ac?

  53. WMFs have never been ... by Tim+Ward · · Score: 2

    ... data files, really. They've always been, in effect, "code" that is executed by an interpreter. That so it's hardly astonishing that there might be a callback mechanism to handle things the interpreter can't cope with.

    Remember too that the WMF stuff was designed in the days when getting a virus from one machine to another involved walking across the room with a floppy and deliberately rebooting the target machine with the infected floppy in the drive!

    It's still a cock-up though. Whoever originally designed WMFs as code-based rather than data-based really wasn't trying hard enough.

    1. Re:WMFs have never been ... by cnettel · · Score: 1
      I made a previous comparison to PostScript, and I think it's still valid. I don't know any specifics about the callback, though, but the idea of spooling rendering commands is a quite efficient way to encode an image.

      The problem is how the interpreter is walled off and that you don't have any way to escape out to arbitrary machine instructions, but, as noted, PostScript is also quite like this. SVG is more declarative, but there are some function calling semantics in there for interpretation, too.

      The basic analysis that this is a leftover from the 3.1 days that noone cared about is totally valid...

  54. The time has come.. by wraith0x29a · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..to add a new mime-type definition to the Windows defaults..

    Identifier: X-Application/WinTrojan
    Name: Windows Trojan File
    File Extension Pattern: *.wtf

    --
    ~ Better a freak than a sheep. ~
    1. Re:The time has come.. by CrosseyedPainless · · Score: 1

      Really! Why screw around? Those of us who care can hit the MIME configuration section of our browser, and everybody else.... well... they're kinda fscked anyway, right?

      I am intrigued by your ideas, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  55. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does this mean that, when Firefox renders JPGs on an HTML page normally (without asking for a downloading), the WMF file could be executed?

    1. Re:Question by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If the image is a jpeg format, then no. If the file is a WMF file with a JPG extension, then I think the answer is Yes. Firefox 1.5 will ask you if you want to view the WMF file (at which point you had better say 'No'). With IE and Firefox 1.0, my understanding is that the wmf file (regardless of its extension) will be automatically viewed and this is enough to get your Windows PC infected.

      --
      Think global, act loco
    2. Re:Question by jasen666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ah, no, that should not be the case. Because it uses it's own rendering and doesn't natively support wmf's, it will try to display the image as a jpg, and when that fails it would either not display the image at all, or ask to open it with a another program. I think the former is more likely. I'll have to test it out now.

  56. Check out Microsoft's mischief and malfeasance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  57. Re:Umm no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    However OSX is not to far behind interms of issues: October security update 1 for tiger introduced a potentiall SSH problem. Panther Security patch 2-10-2005 had a problem with ARD etc.

    Uh huh. Wake me when we have a malicious exploit in the wild that takes advantage of any of those. Bonus points if you find a malicious exploit for a hole that Apple hasn't patched.

    Don't try to mitigate a serious Windows flaw, especially one that is unpatched by Microsoft, by going "but OS X has flaws, too!"-- because you look pretty stupid. And don't play the market share card, either, because that will prove to be bullshit as well.

  58. I got bitten. by Sterling_Aug · · Score: 1

    I visited the website http://www.heaven666.org/ today to see the latest bloppers and pics (some mature content) and I got bite the second the webpage loaded. Symantec 10.0 notified me, quarentined the file but was unable to remove it so far.

  59. What about Microsoft's Nov 8 patch? by Kurt+Gray · · Score: 3, Informative

    Didn't Microsoft already release a patch for this on Nov 8th? According to Symantec's info page on this attack directs you to this Microsoft bulletin links to patches for each Windows release.

    1. Re:What about Microsoft's Nov 8 patch? by bflong · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No. It's another exploit in the same system:
      http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/181038

      --
      Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
  60. This worked for me by MrDRwin · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure if this is technically correct, but I treated this thing like the Smitfraud/Quicknavigate/Virtual Maid infections.
    My step-sons pc got hit with this on Monday and I followed the Method 1 instructions found here... http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic17258. html/ to remove it. It took about an hour and involved a lot of scaning and rebooting but I eventually got it all.
    I then installed Firefox for him and blocked his access to IE :)
    BTW, Mcafee did not do a single thing to stop this from being installed, nor did it give any type of warnings after the fact. I hate Mcafee.

  61. extremely serious by SolusSD · · Score: 0, Redundant

    sweet. --suse 10 work/home/school

  62. Word & PowerPoint files? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because MS Word and PowerPoint can import WMF files, does this mean that those programs can be a vector for infection too?

  63. Opportunity for non MS browsers by ThadMan · · Score: 1

    For those who have web sites, perhaps this would be a good opportunity to influence your users to try a non Microsoft browser such as Firefox or Opera. I did so by posting an announcement to my message board.

    1. Re:Opportunity for non MS browsers by kidtwist · · Score: 1

      It's not browser problem, it's a Windows problem. Using another browser doesn't make you less vulnerable. Using a different OS does.

  64. All these flaws are getting ridiculeous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can imagine people with Mac or Linux laughing their ass off... Microsoft has to work on security more than they do right now. Security should be #1 priority at Microsoft for 2006.

  65. Serious!?! by HeWhoRoams · · Score: 1

    Serious?! Eh show me an infected web site, and I will traverse it! Unless its filled with trannies and dog sex. Than good riddance.

  66. Did someone say Windows? by Tomaaah · · Score: 1

    I think they did... get the pitch-forks and the shotguns! We's gonna have ar sels a hangin'!

    Windows is attacked more due to desktop marketshare. "Tired old arguement." someone said, "What about Apache?" Well, forget for a moment that Apache is a web server application, not an O/S, and that it's inherently more straight-forward to secure something the size of Apache compared with something the size of Windows (especially with it's mish-mash of new and old code from 1000s of different devs). Whatever the individual purpose of a virus/worm/other exploit writer they will almost certainly be more successful, by their measures, by sitting their "product" on the greatest number of machines and where the information is juicier and more accessible.. the Windows home (and office) desktop market.

    Now I'm not an MS cock-sock.. I hate rebooting and regular patching as much as the next guy, I use OSS FTP, archiving, email, browsing and office software wherever possible. That's mainly cos if I don't have to pay for it then why the hell not, but also because there are some superior solutions out there for certain problems that are OSS and why not support that noble effort.

    But then comes the deal-breaker for me.. I need to develop something in the latest version of Java and/or C# .NET (properly), and then knock up some gorgeous images in the latest version of a top graphics package for a site (hosted on my Linux server btw) followed by a Flash game and a couple of viral banners, turn off for a bit a destroy some friends on Battlefield 2.. I need Windows cos I can't get all the best software for anything else. I might get somewhere with the graphics package on a Mac but not have it run at a decent pace for the _right price_.

    I would _love_ to switch to Linux tommorrow. No, today. Not OS X, I just think it's horrible - personal opinion - but Linux. But I need certain packages, with the features and ease of use they provide, to get the jobs done. And I need Windows to run them on. Not everything's going to work with Wine.

    Whenever another Windows security story appears everyone start prodding, pointing and shouting. I'd agree with any balanced anti-Windows arguement. But when you can't offer me a replace-all solution then I don't buy (or download for free) from you.

    1. Re:Did someone say Windows? by VGR · · Score: 1
      This raises an interesting issue about Java programs.

      If understand things correctly, this code will trigger the vulnerability:

      Image img = Tooklit.getDefaultToolkit().getImage(filename);

      While this will not:

      Image img = ImageIO.read(new File(filename));

      Since the former invokes native libraries while the latter is pure Java.

      I don't have Windows (or the spare time to wipe an infected machine) so I can't verify this.

      --
      The Internet is full. Go away.
    2. Re:Did someone say Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple run Linux and you can do 90% of what you wan't in Windows by making an XP VM using qemu, with the exception of gaming that is.

      Cedega could be worth a try for that however.

    3. Re:Did someone say Windows? by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 1

      Want a hand switching?


      But then comes the deal-breaker for me.. I need to develop something in the latest version of Java and/or C# .NET (properly), and then knock up some gorgeous images in the latest version of a top graphics package for a site (hosted on my Linux server btw) followed by a Flash game and a couple of viral banners, turn off for a bit a destroy some friends on Battlefield 2.. I need Windows cos I can't get all the best software for anything else. I might get somewhere with the graphics package on a Mac but not have it run at a decent pace for the _right price_.

      1. Java on Linux is no problem, especially if you like Eclipse.
      2. C# .NET is more of a problem, Mono is not a straight forward thing. It's good; very good, actually. But not straight forware. However, QEMU with the accelerator module gives you ~20-30% of a performance loss over non-virutalized Windows. Run XP in a virtualized QEMU. Don't do anything but your C# work here. Keep a backup of your image, so if you get infected, it takes you all of 2 minutes to restore to clean, without a reboot. This is very nice, and as computers get more and more powerful, is ideal.
      3. For graphics, either use GIMP (mediocre), or Photoshop 7, CS, or CS 2 under Crossover Office (or Wine). Photoshop 7 is fully supported. CS and CS 2 are close. Usable, but I'd make constant backups. The Macromedia suite works well too, as I understand. Or, you can rely upon a separate QEMU image. This is nice, because one image cannot corrupt the other, and since you'll be keeping all your data on the Linux partition anyways, the images won't get that big. For non-professional work, GIMP is great; the main problem with GIMP is working with other people. If you're just banging out JPEGs for your own usage, it works out okay. Professional work generally requires the Adobe stuff; thats why I own Creative Suite, anyways.
      4. Flash games, banners? Works perfectly under any SuSE distribution after 8. If you install crossover office, you can have the Windows version of flash, which gives you 100% compatibility. Macromedia's Linux version of flash is more like 99%, same as the OS X version.
      5. Battlefield 2? www.transgaming.com Transgaming's Cedega runs Battlefield 2 well now.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    4. Re:Did someone say Windows? by pe1chl · · Score: 1

      What is worrying is not that there are defects in Windows, but it that it takes so much time and so many incidents to get Microsoft to admit that this is a problem, and to get them to spend a sensible percentage of their billions of dollars of income on solving these issues.

      Things have improved a lot the past year, but it is the years of "nobody cares about bugs, customers never mention bugs, they want new features so that is what we will work on" attitude that has resulted in the big mess that we now have.

    5. Re:Did someone say Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows is attacked more due to desktop marketshare. "Tired old arguement." someone said, "What about Apache?" Well, forget for a moment that Apache is a web server application, not an O/S, and that it's inherently more straight-forward to secure something the size of Apache compared with something the size of Windows (especially with it's mish-mash of new and old code from 1000s of different devs).

      You missed the point entirely. If it's all about marketshare, then why does even the Microsoft web server - with much smaller marketshare - have so many more exploits than Apache, the market leader? Web-facing servers are prime targets for malware and malicious hackers, so why the big difference? The answer is because it's not all about marketshare. THAT is the point. The marketshare answer is conventional wisdom, but like much conventional wisdom, it's bullshit.

      Is marketshare not a factor at all? No, I'm sure it's a factor. But the idea that it's the primary factor is pure and simple bullshit, and the Apache argument you so quickly misunderstood and then dismissed is one of the prime examples of it.

    6. Re:Did someone say Windows? by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 1

      The former will only cause problems on Windows, correct?

      KDE/QT's WMF support isn't vulnerable. Does GNOME have WMF support?

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    7. Re:Did someone say Windows? by Tomaaah · · Score: 1

      Why, you're right! I'll get to work right now on my latest porn dialler so I can upload it to all those web-servers and... oh wait. Perhaps marketshare is the wrong term. I'll make it simpler. Windows is on lots and lots of computers. These people generally either want recognition or personal and private information. The best way to get that is not to take down or graffiti a few websites on servers you can get into, but to attack the tens (hundreds?) of millions of insecure desktop machines running Windows with the latest exploit. Windows is bigger in terms of day-to-day human-contact-with-a-computer use and the dreaded market share, making it the biggest and most tempting target. It's not rocket science, and it's no more complicated than that. I neither missed the point nor misunderstood it. I simply disagreed with it. And I even managed to describe my reasons for disagreeing with it without immediately resorting to aggressive and critical language. *shock* .... *awe* I've read Slashdot for years, like many (most?) people reading this now, but have only started posting in the last week occasionaly to fill the odd minute here and there. I find it fascinating that so many people are unable to discuss an issue without having to resort to "The answer is...", "THAT is the point." or "pure and simple bullshit". Whatever happened to debate? So here's a couple of phrases to try out: "I see your point but this is what I think..." "No I disgree, for these reasons..." "But if I register, people will know who I am when I'm being unreasonable." :-) Happy New Year :-)

    8. Re:Did someone say Windows? by Tomaaah · · Score: 1

      Seriously.. thank you for this. I'm going to look into it. Like I said I'm perfectly happy to change if I could so you might have just spurred me on. New year's resolution I think. :-)

  67. Re:Your sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a matter of fact, I have before seen women that killed my pop up. Ten pounds of ugly stuffed into a five pound sack.

  68. SP3 by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Anyone for Windows XP SP3?

  69. Confirm trojan with Firefox by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

    Can someone please confirm that this can be spread when using Firefox or Opera on Windows XP?

    And, if so, is it by just visiting the site or is there anything that needs to be done (Like download and view an image with a windows program, or something like that).

    --
    Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    1. Re:Confirm trojan with Firefox by Tomaaah · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe you can be "infected" by the wmf-borne issue, but for it to then download and install the malicious code without notfying you first is an IE thing..?

  70. Saw this one coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw this coming a few days before this story broke. I was browsing a - ahem - "recreational" ;) site on my laptop (linux/firefox), when I got prompted to download a .wmf file. I knew (or had a good hunch anyway) it was a new exploit - it was fun to sit back and watch the story unfold though.

    That being said, it's no laughing matter. I warned the various people who will undoubtedly ask me to fix their machines once they're infected, however, I'm still waiting for the calls. Apparently, this is a nasty one and may require a reinstall once a machine is affected - wonderful.

    My questions are: Once this is patched, what functionality/ies will break? Maybe that's why they haven't patched it yet?

    I implore MS to write a new OS from scratch. Here's hoping.

  71. The Anti Porn League is victorious!!! by gelfling · · Score: 1

    This will be the main vector for spreading this, obviously.

  72. Only Windows 2000+ ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything I've read seems to indicate that this only affects Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows 2003. So, I guess those of us still chugging along with ancient machines on Windows 98 are cool?

    (CTTOI, most of the really nasty exploits I've read about recently seem to only affect post-98 OS's. Another good reason to keep my old fogey running, with spit and duct tape if necessary....)

  73. Running XP in sandbox doesn't help much by Baki · · Score: 1

    assuming you want do move your uploads & downloads (e.g. images) from/to your sandbox, you'll probably moving infected files from your sanbox, via the mounted share, into your real environment.

    1. Re:Running XP in sandbox doesn't help much by Dolda2000 · · Score: 1

      Of course, the problem isn't normally so much infected downloaded files as it is scripting/image/rendering/whatever vulnarabilites in IE. In those cases, a sandbox certainly helps.

  74. HEHEHE by cnerd2025 · · Score: 1

    Ok, so everytime some Windoze blowhard comes on slashdot and accuses us Macheads or 'nix users of exaggerating Windoze's problems, we can now use some very scathing meat for our argument (in addition to all of the other security problems that Winblows has). I personally own a Mac and am laughing my ass off.

    1. Re:HEHEHE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Microsoft user, I have to say it's time for them to hire hackers that should try to hack Windows before other hackers do. I'm very disapointed but I can understand how those problems can arise as a programmer. Often it's the organisation that has to change. Give more time for everyone to work on security instead to try to launch new products quickly(ps: this a message to all organisations, we programmers are tired to be pressured to work quickly).

    2. Re:HEHEHE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i guess that laughing their asses off at the misfortunes of others is all the elitist dicks are good for.

      THINK Different, indeed.

    3. Re:HEHEHE by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but laughing their asses off at the misfortune of others when you warned them..... 5 years in advance?

      That seems reasonable to me.

      Fuck up once, blame someone else.

      Fuck up three times, blame someone else.

      Once you've fucked up dozens and dozens of time, its your own damn fault. Pay some attention. Take some responsibility.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  75. "Windows XP Flaw 'Extremely Serious" by djbesser · · Score: 0

    "Windows XP Flaw 'Extremely Serious"

    Who cares. They all sound extremely life threatening and the world could end as we know it, not to mention Christmas ruined because XP is flawed! :)

    go buy a mac....and that's comin from a guy that doesn't like macs.

    --
    DJBeSSeR
  76. State of Mind by dwandy · · Score: 1
    It can be done, but it normally isn't done that way.
    Most users complain that they need to log in to their computer at all.
    This is definately a mind-set issue that linux users (who have forever logged in as user, and su/sudo for priv'd stuff) already have.
    Perhaps in time, win-users will gain the same level of understanding that it's for their own good.
    --
    If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    1. Re:State of Mind by dpilot · · Score: 1

      The other bad mindset is the "this is a fancy appliance" attitude toward personal computers. I wish we could inspire a more car-like attitude. We all drive cars, but we also expect to keep them maintained. Different people do various levels of maintenance/repair themselves, from practically none to practically all. They also accept that they will hire a professional for some level of maintenance/repair, from practially all to practically none. There is very little business in the computer maintenance/repair business, and very few consumers actually do it. IMHO this is not good. The real problem is coming up with a maintenance plan that can be economical, yet effective.

      The alternative is to turn most computers into appliances, but so far every attempt has failed.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    2. Re:State of Mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The alternative is to turn most computers into appliances, but so far every attempt has failed.

      I wouldn't say every attempt has failed.

    3. Re:State of Mind by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Is the magnetron on the latter casemod still in place?

      If so, this is the perfect computer for putting your music and movie downloads on. When the ??AA sends someone knocking at the door, just put it on bake.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  77. no, it's worse. by twitter · · Score: 1
    I mean, seriously, avoid visiting unfamiliar web sites? That's like saying "There's been lots of credit card scams recently, you shouldn't go into any store you haven't been to before."

    The stores you have already been to can now get you, if they have not already exploited one of the other 1,001 holes you don't know about. With companies like American Express and Home Depot paying people to infect M$ encumbered computers with advert servers, the internet is anything but a trusted network to begin with.

    The advice is not being given to help the user, it's being given to BLAME the user. When something goes wrong, clueless administrators everywhere will now blame their users for all the late hours they will spend cleaning up after Bill Gates.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  78. How these incidents get spun by i_am_not_a_bomba · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just love the fanboys rushing out of the woodwork whenever there is *another* bloody HUGE hole found in windows.

    "Oh it could happen to any OS", but doesn't
    "You should be using a virtual machine to browse the internet anyway", windows is *so* easy to use.
    "It's only because Windows is popular", broken, braindead 'features' being exploited has something to do popularity
    "All software is buggy", some software is much worse than others it would appear

    In a few months we will be hearing from the same people how much better Windows is now all the probelms are fixed will and things like this will never happen again, that those 'lunix zealots just will never get over it, its not 1998 anymore l00Z3R$", that Windows is just as secure as anything, and on and on it goes...

    It's time for a new soundbite...

    Windows, only usable if your time is worthless.

  79. Once again, eSafe already protects me against this by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

    "Currently, eSafe is the only gateway product capable of providing complete protection against this threat."

    http://www.esafe.com/home/csrt/valerts2.asp?virus_ no=21953

    I am seeing WMF files being blocked as CID activeex exploits.

    eSafe is protecting SMTP, FTP, HTTP in my environment. I believe it has the ability to do POP3 and SSL if you purchase those features.

  80. crap by Sir_Real · · Score: 1

    The internet is going to crawl when someone writes a worm around this exploit. Any program that uses the vulnerable dll can cause the compromise. So, for example, Google's desktop search file indexer can trigger the payload without the user ever interacting with the file (as others have already pointed out).

  81. I hate sounding nitpicky but by Khyber · · Score: 1

    What is your definition of a REAL OS?

    My definition is as follows: Any piece of software that helps you gain control over your computer, and the way it functions and interacts with the attached hardware.

    Of course, by that definition, the BIOS is, in essence, a very BASIC OS (Though BIOS means Basic Input/Output System)

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  82. VMWare vulnerability by QuaintRealist · · Score: 1

    Yes, that was frustrating. Fortunately, VMWare patched it pretty quickly, but you had to re-download the whole thing.

    I think still, though, the analogy holds up - surgical gloves dont prevent you accidentally infecting yourself with a scalpel, but are a best practice for infection control anyway. Sandboxing your browser may not be perfect either, but it has protected our practice from the nasty bits web for some time now, and we are by no means an IT-savy bunch.

    --
    Using plain ol' text since 1968
  83. again?? and what about linux? by Viriatus · · Score: 0

    Why every day there's a story in /. that there's a flaw in Windows. And in Linux??? There are no flaws?? Really? I'm getting suspicous...

  84. some edits for you. by twitter · · Score: 1
    One, the security hole has not "widened" - the scope of exposure is exactly what we read about Wednesday.

    More dirt bags are using the exploit, so your risk has increased. It's kind of like more people are ready to put ice where Bill Gates left a hole in your pants. When your computer goes poof, you will feel pretty naked.

    the web sites are not infected, they are malicious.

    A web site may serve such images without knowing it through their ad server or through vandalism. The user's perspective of those events would be that the site was "infected" with a disease that wiped them out.

    For other editorial problems, send a letter to the Washington Post and other industry experts who use the same kind of language.

    To save your ass, heed their warning: a big fat worm is coming that will exploit this. I'd convert my users to Mepis if I were you.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  85. Disable Images? by TheYNH · · Score: 1

    Would disabling images in firefox keep me from getting infected?

    1. Re:Disable Images? by webzone · · Score: 1

      Firefox will ask you if you want to download the file instead of displaying it.

      If you are using Firefox 1.0.x, it will by default *offer* you to open it in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer (which is vulnerable). Just say No.

      Firefox 1.5 has a bug and will offer you to open the WMF images with Windows Media Player instead. Media Player does not recognize these images, so they won't be displayed and will not infect you.

  86. Just disable images? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Firefox, just disable the images (Tools, options, content).
    Anyone tried this yet?

    (I had to re-activate this to post this comment - it stops the bot decection word loading!)

  87. Serious Outlook Express related bug by Mercury2k · · Score: 1

    Hey guys, just thought that you should be warned about a possible OE issue that could be abused. As you may know, OE can disable showing you pictures when you open an email until youu agree to see them by clicking the little bar asking you to display them right? Well, theres a serious catch to this. If you decide to forward a copy of ANY email to say fraud addresses for say ebay, the government, the police, another account etc. OE will NO MATTER WHAT download AND display these images WITHOUT prompting you. I have wrote MS about the issue and recieved a reply confirming the issue. They say that it is a "design feature" and that I should switch to Outlook if I want to be prompted about showing pictures on a Forward.

    THIS MESSAGE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!! MOD IT UP ASAP!

    1. Re:Serious Outlook Express related bug by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

      Full Outlook can't reply or forward either without downloading or including linked images. The only nice thing is that it warns you, and lets you cancel.. usually. /really f'ing tired of Exchange and Outlook crap...

      --
      Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
  88. How to easily Improve IE security - really! by isolated-monkey · · Score: 1

    I do not know the details of the exploit, and this probably wont help in this case but "Dropmyrights" will reduce rights while running IE (at leasts is makes IE a bit better): http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /library/en-us/dncode/html/secure11152004.asp/ cheers

  89. Is the publicity from Slashdot to blame? by CompMan86 · · Score: 1

    When the exploit was posted to Slashdot, it wasn't nearly as widespread. Since that time, it has mushroomed. Granted, the people who would use this exploit would probably have found out about it anyway, but would they have implemented it so fast if it wasn't so public? I don't know if I would prefer Slashdot not to post it, but I'm curious to know the effects that the media has on catalyzing the growth of exploits like this.

    1. Re:Is the publicity from Slashdot to blame? by metaballo · · Score: 1

      It's like posting gov info or home addr's of judges. If freedom of info means facilitating terrorism or even the occasional nut-job, then maybe the 1st goes too far. If people can't draw a line, then they should suffer whatever they precipitate!

    2. Re:Is the publicity from Slashdot to blame? by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, Slashdot isn't "to blame". Stop talking like Zonk.

      Anti-virus and virus writers follow different websites that were already posting the details of the WMF vulnerability and the exploits. Slashdot did not have anything to do with that.

      Thanks to Slashdot, I found out about this vulnerability in time to shut off our company's internet access before people came in to work, and find out what do (unregister shimgvw.dll, add rules to IDS, send alarmist email to everyone explaining what to look out for).. I'm sure that thousands of other admins found out about this within 24 hours, thanks to Slashdot, and were able to warn co-workers, friends, and family.

      It's very different to ask "Is the publicity from Slashdot to blame?" vs. "I'm curious to know the effects that the media has on catalyzing the growth of exploits like this." I'm curious too, but *very* glad that Slashdot reported this exploit.

      I'd believe that a few "prank" infections (IM) have occurred because of the publicity. I'm honestly surprised that no one seems to have posted these .wmf files to popular forums that I read. I'd guess that it's because the company exploiting this vulnerability the most -- Spyaxe -- is making a buck off of it, and mere pranksters won't.

      --
      Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
  90. Not quite by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    In theory, XP Pro has better security capabilities than Linux. I don't think that's true of XP Home (which needs it more because its users are less saavy), and I know it's not true by DEFAULT.

    Out of the box, XP Home has one user called "Owner" with Admin priviledge and no password. IMO, that crappy default setting is one reason why developers ASSume everyone is root, and write crap that doesn't work on a Limited Account.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  91. that's not a feature of UNIX by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    You mention that why run code with more permissions than it really needs.

    That kind of functionality was part of Multics, with its multiple privelige rings. Unix doesn't have this capability, in fact, the name Unix comes from Multics, with "Multi-" switched to "Uni-" to indicate it has only one user privelige level.

    Under Multics, you could run tasks with less priveliges than you have normally. Those could then run tasks with even less privelige. Basically, back when CPU time cost money, a teacher could blow all their alloted CPU time by running a student's program that looped forever. There were also issues with the students perhaps sneaking something in there to read files that only the teacher could read (as they were run as the teacher). Although that kind of thing probably didn't happen much, there wasn't really much malicious software at that time.

    In terms of allocating priveliges on a "need to know" basis, ironically, Windows is a lot better than Unix. Unix really only has two privelige levels, user and root. If you need to elevate your privelige to get the ability to kill a task or open a restricted port, you also get priveliges to read and write any file on the machine or even create setuid files. Windows has a lot finer-grained permissions allocations, although most users don't use it. Unix also has a few hacks like the "nobody" account which increase security a bit more, but not as much as a system like Windows' or Multics'.

    Really, what is needed is MS needs to modify IE so it can run as a restricted user even when the user running it is an admin (privileged) one. This capability is in Windows XP, but most MS programs (like Outlook) won't run when set this way. Does Firefox?

    Big asterisk here. Although multiple privilege levels was specifically removed as a feature of UNIX in the beginning, some people/companies have hacked some of it back in. Maybe it'll make it into mainline distros someday. Additionally, AFS (Andrew File System) doesn't automatically recognize uid 0 as a privileged user.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:that's not a feature of UNIX by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      The ability to kill a task depends on the owner of the task. One doesn't have to be root to kill a user task.

  92. Spreading hampered by holiday season by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess MS really got lucky that this happened in the holiday season when at least in Europe a lot of the offices are closed.

    Otherwise companies relying on MS Windows could've been hit hard.

    And again they're lucky that these exploits are not written by MS haters. If they were one of them would simply messed up MBRs/bioses beyond repair. THAT would hurt MS!

  93. Who da booty? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Funny

    Look, Mr. Softy has become the richest outfit on earth by understanding the fundamental truth: people are sheep.
    You can lead those sheep to water, but it's going to take an enema to spare them from death by dehydration, oral methods carrying too great a drowning risk.
    I guess that may have sounded negative.

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  94. Yawn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ooh big news, Windows has yet another security flaw. Who cares. Why the fuck is this still news?

  95. Windows development culture is insecure by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Games should not be doing the kind of things that need Administrator privilege to do!

    It's the core security problem of Windows: the development culture doesn't respect security. Developers went for decades of DOS and Windows 3.1/9x without needing to worry about users and permissions. So they got used to assuming they could write whereever they wanted. When real user seperation and permissions became mainstream with Windows 2000 and XP, they weren't prepared to change. Because so much software required full access the easiest way to get stuff running is to run in an Administrator account. And since so many people (developers included) run as Administrator, why bother doing the right thing? Games are usually guilty, but there are piles of business and research software that is equally guilty. My brother is a sysadmin for a research lab. To keep Administrator access out of users hands, he has to bend of backwards to get the machines running the software his users need. A 2005 release of a $3,000 package that refuses to be placed in a directory with whitespace or a tilde, meaning it can't be installed in C:\Program Files. A $500 package that demands write access to a file in the C:\Windows directory.

    This is one case where backward compatibility came at the expense of security. The development culture is moving too slowly. Bigger companies are starting to do the right thing and you get the occasional smaller development house following the rules. The killer is that huge mass of more specialized software. Apple bit the bullet when they cut over to Mac OS X; software had to do the right thing or it stopped working. Microsoft needs to make such a dramatic change or we'll be putting up with this bullshit for at least another five years.

    1. Re:Windows development culture is insecure by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Apple bit the bullet when they cut over to Mac OS X; software had to do the right thing or it stopped working. Microsoft needs to make such a dramatic change or we'll be putting up with this bullshit for at least another five years.

      Microsoft can't do this. What keeps Windows afloat is the huge mass of existing programs; if the users can't use them, they either won't update (cutting Microsofts revenue stream) or will go all the way and switch to Linux (cutting Microsofts revenue stream) to get real security. Either way, it would be suicide for Microsoft to drop backwards compatibility for any program still in widespread use.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Windows development culture is insecure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or will go all the way and switch to Linux

      get serious ..... I have owned and used linux boxes for years, and I still keep XP on my main machine. Why? not because of the software, its because I want to install a piece of software and run it, not install 30 dependant libraries and then tweak the conf file for my hardware just to use something that is a peice of crap anyway (GIMP excluded, OO included). WIndows has a purpose. Its purpose is to let people get things done WITH their computer, Linux has a purpose, the let people do things TO their computer. Different purpose, different mindset, Windows would still sell

    3. Re:Windows development culture is insecure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, this is exactly what MS intends to do with Vista. They have been talking about it for long enough now, I don't think the industry has too much excuse not to be ready for it.

    4. Re:Windows development culture is insecure by anacreo · · Score: 1

      How can you possibly throw OO (I'm assuming you are referring to OpenOffice) into a list of "crap" software. I've recently been so impressed with OpenOffice that I've replaced M$ Office on all my machines and I use OpenOffice on my Windows, OS-X and Unix box.

      Infact, when I send people an e-mail and include a PDF of an OpenOffice document I usually send them the open office formatted file and tell them that it came from OpenOffice. More often then not I get a reply, thanks for the tip this is great. Especially with the OpenOffice Drawing suite.

      If any single application is going to bring down Microsoft it will be OpenOffice. Microsoft makes their money off corporate America... and corporate America doesn't want to spend $500.00 a seat for M$ office...

      --
      Make it, small, clean, modular, Open (not necessarily OpenSource), make it UNIX. -Anacreo
    5. Re:Windows development culture is insecure by mixmasta · · Score: 1

      Windows does let you install things easily, but it also comes with the part-time job of keeping it secure, which can easily blow several hours a week. That's not including the almost full day to get it secure in the first place.

      There is no perfect OS.

      --
      #6495ED - cornflower blue
  96. Trying to run viruses under under Wine with Linux by Rick17JJ · · Score: 1

    Here is a link about an unsecessful attempt to run five Windows viruses under Linux:

    Running Windows viruses with Wine

    It is possible to run some versions of Internet Explorer under Linux. The Codeweavers CrossOver Office version of Wine can run IE 6.0 under Linux.

    Some Linux users also do use Codeweaver's CrossOver Office to Word 2000 under Linux or Excel 2000 under Linux. CrossOver Office is a slightly enhanced version of Wine with a more user friendly front end.

    As a desktop Linux user, I have never had to worry about viruses, worms or most spyware. I can open my email without the fear of Active-X extensions, attachments, and viruses that most Windows users have. Of course, I do use one of the several free firewalls available for Linux. I don't run unnecessary services which a desktop user would not need and regularly check for security updates. Linux is not perfect, but it is much less vulneable to most of these problems.

  97. Bad start to my day by EdMcMan · · Score: 1

    I got to work today to discover that my boss got one of the emails and installed a whole lot of spyware on his system. The spyware software the article mentions is called Spyaxe. That was easy to get rid of. However, there is some spyware that loads using the profile notify method, which loads even in safe mode.

    Very annoying to get off. Among other things, the infection loads porno ads, repeatedly shows fake Windows security messages, and disables the task manager. It also throws a ton of files in the windows directory (about 30).

    Anyone know of any threat pages about this yet? I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

    1. Re:Bad start to my day by EdMcMan · · Score: 2, Informative
  98. Low UID != Has a Clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Proof that a +5 comment from a low UID means absolutely nothing.

    Way to post false statements as if they were facts. Every one who read your post is now less informed than they were before. How does that make you feel?

    1. Re:Low UID != Has a Clue by ipfwadm · · Score: 1

      Proof that a +5 comment from a low UID means absolutely nothing.

      165000 is low?

  99. hahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    visiting infected websites is a url rofl

  100. xp flaw by metaballo · · Score: 1

    went to file types in folder options and temporarily disabled automatic opening of WMF file types until flaw is patched (simple).

  101. Wow, what a waste of space! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The VM image uncompressed is almost 1GB, and honestly it offers very little over using any decent (non-IE) browser (FF, Opera, etc) on Windows (I've NEVER caugh a virus, spyware or other crap that way). If it was some version of DSL with an updated Firefox (DSL still uses FF 0.9.1 IIRC) that would be pretty cool/useful, but 1GB (using Ubuntu)? Not a chance in hell. It's probablt slow as molasses too, and getting your downloads from that Linux in a VM onto your Windows machine must suck... This is going to very extreme limits to prevent something minor that might happen perhaps once every 5 years and takes 5 minutes to fix.

  102. I tried to tell them before...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have had 7 customers already call me in the past 2 days, as of today, have recieved 10 calls regarding this damn exploit. Looks like us IT people will be busy for a while

  103. another use for Google by PW2 · · Score: 1

    Can search engines like Google provide a bargraph or colorcode of how much a particular domain is known for pushing malicious software. This idea may require distributed crawling/indexing to be effective though.

    1. Re:another use for Google by Dr.+Max+E.+Ville · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OR they could sit back and watch MS sweat

  104. This flaw is worse than all others by FukYa · · Score: 1

    Since a graphics rendering engine common to all versions of windblows uses file magic to determine the image file type - microsucks has a major problem on its hands as do all 90% of the world's computer users. An infected WMF image can simply be renamed to a .jpg or .gif and included in any displayable html (read any web page or html formatted email) and the code will be activated on any windblows box accessing it. This is MAJOR issue folks unless microsucks comes out with a fix for all versions of winblows very soon.

    1. Re:This flaw is worse than all others by metaballo · · Score: 1

      So, use Firefox instead?

    2. Re:This flaw is worse than all others by CaptainTux · · Score: 1
      So, use Firefox instead?

      This isn't an Internet Explorer bug, it's a Windows one. Using Firefox won't stop you from getting infected. However, using FireFox will mean you will be prompted before the file is run.

      --
      Anthony Papillion
      Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
      "Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
  105. Real easy (temp) fix. - Not Really by FukYa · · Score: 1

    All this accomplishes is to keep Windows from automatically rendering the graphic when accessed by the Windows' system programs like file/Internet Explorer and Outlook email programs. If any other program on the system renders the graphic, if you do something that lets you see the graphic anywhere, you will activate the infection on your system. Since the WMF image file can be renamed to any other image type and the Windows graphic rendering engine will still recognize it as a WMF, the infected graphic can be disguised as almost anything - system icons, banners, pictures in my documents, template clip art... whatever.

  106. Changing the article body by VxJasonxV · · Score: 1

    "Computers can now be infected just by visiting infected web sites, [...]"

    I think the editors forgot the 'again' part :-).
    (Yes, I admit that XP SP2 did some good things, but does anyone remember porn sites and surfing in general a few years back? HONESTLY. Computers being infected automatically is NOTHING new!)

  107. Re:Is it IE or Windows? Doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    File extensions are hidden by default in Windows. Yes, stupid but true. NekkidTennisPlayer.JPG.exe looks like NekkidTennisPlayer.JPG to most Windows users.

    You don't even NEED a vulnerability. Windows' design IS a vulnerability.

    Note to people in Redmond: PLEASE FIX THIS!!! k?thx.

  108. Goatse by Galston · · Score: 0

    Someone should make an extra nasty version of goatse with this. Being goatsed would no longer just scar you for life.

  109. All software has bugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello, world. MRC-"aggrieve."

  110. Firefox will not run restricted. by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    I tried the feature of Windows that lets you run a program with restricted privileges. Firefox doesn't even launch.

    The latest version of IE will launch! I went to cnn.com with it. It gets slightly weird at times, it apparently cannot access many files on the disk. Maybe I'll try this a while.

    Score one for MS here I guess.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  111. Re:Software DEP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Baiscally this does *NOT* work, and Microsoft saying so doesn't make it an more so.

    Only the new HARDWARE based DEP, and especially those on AMD processors seem to stop this threat. The stock software DEP that Microsoft uses on NON-DEP Intel processors does *nothing* to resolve this issue. There are questions as to whether or not the DEP on Intel processors work.

  112. Re:Trying to run viruses under under Wine with Lin by bfizzle · · Score: 1

    So this is where WINE's incompatibility with software comes to it's advantage.

  113. Will Symantec Antivirus prevent infection? by CompMan86 · · Score: 1

    Will Symantec Antivirus Corporate v10 protect against this infection? How about Microsoft Antispyware?

    1. Re:Will Symantec Antivirus prevent infection? by MaineCoon · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't rely on Symantec to stop your computer from catching anything.

      NOD32 (best Antivirus I've ever used, no system performance hit, whereas latest McAfee dropped my mother-in-law's computer's speed by half) and a few others catch it, apparently.

      --
      Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
    2. Re:Will Symantec Antivirus prevent infection? by Hymer · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Symantec but McAfee with engine 4.4.0.0 and virus definitions 4661 should. I am a very happy McAfee customer, no viruses since 1998.
      ,,,or you can do what I did a year ago... kick M$ out and use Linux or Mac...

  114. WMF - Broken As Designed by IvyKing · · Score: 1
    This brought back memories of alt.destroy.microsoft from the mid-1990's - reference to their software being Broken As Designed - this is a classic example.

    Thanks for the Larry Seltzer link.

  115. HOSTS file? by Monkeyfarmer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    F-secure mentions these as bad URLS:

    "And finally, you might want to start to filter these domains at your corporate firewalls too. Do not visit them.

    toolbarbiz[dot]biz toolbarsite[dot]biz toolbartraff[dot]biz toolbarurl[dot]biz buytoolbar[dot]biz buytraff[dot]biz iframebiz[dot]biz iframecash[dot]biz iframesite[dot]biz iframetraff[dot]biz iframeurl[dot]biz"

    Why not just put them into a HOSTS file as a 127.0.0.1 and avoid it?

  116. Book reference by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This is the book your looking for. Microsoft Windows Internals, Fourth Edition: Microsoft Windows Server(TM) 2003, Windows XP, and Windows 2000 (Pro-Developer) (Hardcover) That and technet. I have the 3rd edition and I found it very informative.

  117. Linux has a fix by r00t · · Score: 1

    You can create a process that is unable to do pretty much anything other
    than crunch numbers and perform IO on existing file descriptors.

    Red Hat will be using this for parsing multimedia data (image, sound,
    video, etc.) in an upcoming release. The GNOME app sends the data
    over DBUS, then gets back the results.

  118. What I'd like to know ... by cpu_fusion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What I'd like to know is -- how long has this exploit been "in the wild?"

    If it has been there since WMFs began, that's a long, long time. We're talking Windows '95 or earlier. It all depends when the GDI callbacks feature was added.

    So here's what you need to consider: since this exploitable code first "shipped" with Windows, anyone "in the know", e.g. potentially FOLKS AT MICROSOFT, the NSA, your neighbor, whomever ... they could have EASILY breached your Windows box, done whatever the hell they wanted, erased all their tracks ... and you'd have to convince a judge and jury it wasn't you.

    If I build and sell a car that is advertised as having a security system, but that security system is defeatable by running a magnet over the car lock, and that information is "out in the wild" for years and years, maybe even by folks in my company... what is the legal liability?

    The only three external things that will adjust Microsoft's behavior regarding security are: (1) customers switching to other products, (2) criminal justice investigations, and (3) lawsuits. I don't see #1 happening so long as customers remain locked in, #2 is a joke as we know, but #3 ... ?

    1. Re:What I'd like to know ... by Hymer · · Score: 1

      I'll suggest you read the EULA... they claim that they are not responsible for whatever may happen to you, your data or other work while you are using their software... It would be worlds shortest lawsuit: "Did the plaintiff read the EULA ? yes ? why are we then wasting the courts time ?" and it is no better if the answer is "no", since you are not allowed to use the software without reading and accepting the EULA.

    2. Re:What I'd like to know ... by AtomicJake · · Score: 1

      Just because you have accepted (did you actually? did you have a choice?) the EULA, does not mean that everything what is written in the EULA becomes a valid and legal contract. It is highly controversial whether EULAs are actually enforceable.

      Check out EFF's critical summary about EULAs:
      http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php

    3. Re:What I'd like to know ... by Hymer · · Score: 1

      Yes, we do have a choice: don't use the product, it may not be an option here & now but you've got a choice.
      I don't think that any software manufacturer would use an EULA that could be invalidated by a court order, it is simply to dangerous.

    4. Re:What I'd like to know ... by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      "I don't think that any software manufacturer would use an EULA that could be invalidated by a court order"

      It would be remarkable to get a court order that expressly invalidates something in a contract which is not valid on its face. What's much more likely to happen, is that an invalid clause in a contract is never permitted to be considered as evidence. In other words, you will never get a court order on the basis of an invalid clause in a contract, as it will silently be ignored.

      Is the EULA a contract at all? I never signed one. Anyone claiming that I did will have a tough time convincing a judge, empty handed as they are.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    5. Re:What I'd like to know ... by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Do you sign your mortgage loan or rental agreement with a mouse-click? Ever tell people that by looking at you they agree to pay you $100 each time? They have a choice right? EULAs are still not fully tested because of a contract to exist you must agree to conditions and then exchange money. Can you require acceptance of new conditions after money exchanged hands? The sale is over.

      Besides, there are certain things you will always be liable for even if you get people to sign agreements.

  119. punkbuster by tjw · · Score: 1
    Games should not be doing the kind of things that need Administrator privilege to do!
    Most new FPS games use the third-party software Punkbuster to detect cheats.

    This software requries that you run the game with Administrator privs when using it on Win32 because you need to be an Administrator to detect many of the cheats, read MAC addresses, and read the serial numbers off harddrives.

    --

    XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-UB E-TEST-EMAIL*C.34X
  120. Email blasts by necro2607 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, where I work, we often create email template designs for companies who wish to send out "email blasts" (marketing campaign emails sent to thousands+ of contacts, essentially).

    Needless to say the first time I was told to cut up an "email blast template", I had to ask what the hell email "blasting" was. It sounded like some kind of widespread ("distributed"?) Denial of Service attack launched by zombie PCs running hacked up MTAs or something!

  121. I've said it before by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'll say it again.

    Use Windows. Get Infected.

    It's not restricted to unpatched Windows 98. It affects fully patched Windows XP SP2 running fully updated anti-virus.

    Use Windows, and you'll Get Infected.

    A firewall will protect you sometimes. Safe browsing will protect you other times. But in the end, something will get you. WMF, or a buffer overflow in IE, a spoofing vulnerability involving Windows Update, a Windows only Firefox bug.

    use Windows. Get Infected. Period.

    --
    WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  122. Re:HEHEHE - ouch by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

    We Apple users have had ammunition all along. Sony rootkit, LSASS, UPNP buffer overflow. IE "do me" exploits weekly or monthly. And I'd be LMAO without reservation if I didn't have to administer 35 of these fifth columns at work.

    Seriously, this is helping a couple of my coworkers make the switch to Mac, even though my boss claims he's happy with his $600 laptop. He's happy because ignorance is bliss, and he has a short memory. He has no idea what his laptop is doing without his knowledge, and every six months he brings it in to me to get it cleaned or wiped.

    --
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
  123. a little question on cards by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    visa/mastercard etc presumablly have branches in different countries. Can say the US branch of visa/mastercard stop payments from us cards to ukranian merchants?

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  124. No patch available for Windows by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

    I call shenanigans.

    I've checked three times today, and I'm not seeing any patches for Windows. Maybe you were confused or hacked?

    --
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
  125. Mod My Parent Up, Too!!! by plj · · Score: 1

    I don't remember how long I was wondering how to run Explorer.exe (and thus, Control Panel) with runAs, before I realised what parent said. It really makes runAs much more useful.

    --
    “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
  126. Updates via home page by Eminor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sys Admins have a new way to keep their users' windows machines up to date. Simply enocde your updates into a WMF file and place it on the intranet home page.

  127. Re:HEHEHE - ouch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    carefully ignoring the mac version of $ony's rootkit.

    how "short term memory" of you...

    instead of being an immature kiddy and acting smug, why not help others.

    a good first step would be to help migrate those users to linux.

    having to buy new hardware when the old hardware is perfectly functional is a waste.

    out of the frying pan and into the oven. hmmm

  128. Proxomitron Workaround by Kye-U · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please read: http://kyeu.info/proxo/forums/viewtopic.php?t=699 I have created a filter that would kill any WMF-Exploit file, regardless of file extension. This is due to a new matching method I've discovered in Proxomitron, where it matches the magic bytes of known exploit files. Most people don't know Proxomitron can serve as a workaround to this issue. In my opinion, it serves the same protection as an antivirus in this case, as it's basically matching hex values and killing the connection upon a successful match.

  129. Why not... by plj · · Score: 1

    just block all .jpg, .gif and .png images too! After all, they're the most commonly used formats, so one must be in safe after blocking them all!

    Oh, wait...

    --
    “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
  130. Offended?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone else offended that people still refer to them as "hackers"? They're crackers!!!!!

  131. Re:HEHEHE - ouch by dreamer-of-rules · · Score: 1

    Perhaps you'd volunteer to migrate our Windows business software to Linux? We depend on Foxpro's command UI and speed. We have thousands of VB scripts. And some GUI-heavy custom analysis software. Do they run on Linux? Can you make them run quickly on Linux? Can you retrain all of our programmers. No, you can't.

    What is the Mac version of Sony's rootkit? Is that the one when you open the CD, you find a readme begging you to install the DRM, so you do, but then you have to type in the administrator password?

    Nah. I'm doing what I can, which is protecting our business needs. And highlighting the security costs of Windows as often as possible, to help people make the switch. Sure I'm smug, but you're ugly. :)

    --
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
  132. Don't try this unless you have a screamer machine by dogugotw · · Score: 1

    Sounded great. Downloaded the player and browser appliance.
    Takes for-freaking-ever to load (5 min+) the player.
    Takes nearly as long to start up the browser.
    Every page takes a minute or more to load.
    NO way to use this setup.

    I have a 995 mhz celeron laptop with 512 meg ram running xp home sp2. I'll disable the dll and browse without the vm.

    Maybe when I upgrade this thing I'll try again, but not for now.

  133. Beating The Baddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's a decent analysis of the exploit, which I call UnionSeek or W32/PFV-Exploit.A-C.

    http://www.nist.org/news.php?extend.50%5Bnist.org% 5D

    This article suggests that the best way to protect yourself is to disable the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer. I would change it's name and drop an icon onto my desktop. If you need to view a trusted pic, just drop the file onto the new icon.

  134. Exactly by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
    The advice is not being given to help the user, it's being given to BLAME the user.

    What annoys me is that the reporter repeated this line from Microsoft & didn't even think it through...

    Although, as someone else said in reply to my original post, what can you expect from reporters, anyway...

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
  135. You don't want the control panel... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    You want the Microsoft Management Console:

    runas /user:AdminUser mmc


    You can get all the snap-ins that cover nearly all the Control Panel stuff from inside there.
    And if you must run a control panel:

    runas /user:AdminUser "control name.cpl"


    You can find all of your Control Panels in your %SystemRoot%/System32 (C:\windows\system32) folder... they have .cpl extensions (sort by Type, look for "Control Panel extensions" -- also look at their Properties and read the description under the "version" tab to identify them)

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  136. Firefox Safe Mode? by Kiyooka · · Score: 1

    What about Firefox Safe Mode? Does that help?

    Btw, my firefox is acting up for the very first time: it loads but shows nothing, not even the bookmarks toolbar. Nothing. But safe mode is ok (which is how i'm posting this), as is IE. Does anybody know wtf? Is this related? Thanks.

  137. An Admin Toast by NullProg · · Score: 1

    This isn't a Unix vs Windows issue. I feel for the admins coming back to work on Monday. I raise a toast in your honor. Drink well and drink much on Saturday Night for your next 90 days are going to be hell.

    For those about to work long hours, I salute you.
    Bottoms up.

    Enjoy.

    --
    It's just the normal noises in here.
  138. Re:Temporary Solution (FAQ was wrong) by CFrankBernard · · Score: 1

    The FAQ has been updated to say the opposite:

    "I have DEP enabled on my system, does this help mitigate the vulnerability?

    Software based DEP does not mitigate the vulnerability. However, Hardware based DEP may work when enabled: please consult with your hardware manufacturer for more information on how to enable this and whether it can provide mitigation."
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory /912840.mspx

  139. It does exactly that by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    OTOH, the computer will not warn you if you double-click to open an app for the first time. Really, what would it say? Something like "You're running this app I haven't seen before. I don't know where it came from, and Alan Turing says it's impossible for me to predict what it will do. Are you sure you wanted to double-click on it?"

    I don't think it was in the inital Tiger release, I think it came as a patch - but in fact Tiger (OS X) now does EXACTLY what you just said! You try to run an app for the first time, it says "This is the first time running this app, are you sure?" (more long winded though).

    If you download an app the "OK to download the APP' dialogue counts as your OK and you don't get asked when you run this.

    I am quite positive about this feature because I just upgraded an older OS X computer to Tiger today and it was putting up that dialogue for GoLive and other porgrams on the system when we ran them for tests.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  140. Newer OS versions? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Interesting... I haven't used OSX much, but I have downloaded programs to friends' OSX boxes, and run them, and gotten no such prompt. In which cases does the OS ask you this?

    How recently was this? in one of the later Tiger patches (I think) it asks whenever you run a new app for the first time.

    I think if it detects an installer (run by you) it does not ask (might be a loophole)? If you download an app and say OK to the "downloading an APP" dialogue it does not ask you again when you run it (as you hope).

    I have not explored all the corner cases, but I was just upgrading a computer to Tiger today and got the "running the app for the first time, is that OK" dialogue on pretty much everything we ran as far as I can remember.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  141. I developed a fix for it by ilfak · · Score: 3, Informative

    After some hours looking at WMF file format I developed a fix for it:

    http://www.hexblog.com/

    My fix works for Windows XP systems. I have tested it on my machines.

  142. Not really different from most unixlike systems by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Uh, it's just like unix, just "su -" to a shell as root and then run the stuff you want. In fact given there's no xwindows you don't even have to "export DISPLAY" etc.

    Create a shortcut with something like this:

    %SystemRoot%\system32\runas.exe /user:rootuser "%SystemRoot%\system32\cmd.exe"

    Then read this:
    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=180025

    You can also do "start compmgmt.msc" if you want to start the computer management stuff. There are a whole bunch of .msc stuff e.g. gpedit.msc, services.msc.

    Don't like this command line stuff? Well, you wouldn't like the unix command line stuff then.

    In fact, at my prev workplace with Windows XP I used to run my web browser as a different user account from my normal user account (non admin). That way if my web browser got exploited it's a lot harder for my normal user account stuff to be affected.

    Now I do a similar thing with SuSE and KDE at my current workplace. I run mozilla with a different user from my main (non root user).

    People grumble a lot about windows being insecure. Windows NT/2000/XP onwards aren't really that much more insecure than most Linux distros.

    It's just most people who are currently running Windows, would probably want to run a Linux distro as root.

    In my opinion Windows and Linux aren't really secure or suitable for normal users.

    Users should be able to _easily_ run stuff with restricted privileges - sandboxed. Say they run some silly Xmas game that someone emailed to them, such a program should only be given limited rights e.g. graphics, sound, but no access to documents files, only write to temp directory, no network...

    Not everything a user launches should run with the user's full account privileges.

    Currently there's windows firewall software which help do something like this, but there's a long way to go.

    The trouble is Microsoft and other companies don't want to empower users, they'd rather DRM stuff be the solution. That way what the user runs and what access it has is under the control of the big companies.

    Basically the long term strategy for them is to let things get really messy and insecure on the desktops and then propose DRM stuff as The Solution. When in actual fact there are alternative ways of solving the problem that don't involve everything being signed by Big Corps.

    And the Big Corps do make mistakes too. Witness the insecure _signed_ ActiveX control that was released by Sony's DRM stuff. Then there are the flawed/buggy Microsoft ActiveX controls, which can in theory be reinstalled again without warning (since they're signed by msoft), and then reexploited.

    Of course their "solution" to that would be for your computer to download certificate revocation lists on a regular basis.

    But if users just run unknown/exposed stuff in sandboxes by default there wouldn't be such problems.

    --
    1. Re:Not really different from most unixlike systems by chgros · · Score: 1

      I don't mind using a command line, but the problem is that Windows isn't meant to be managed with a command line, so I'm not familiar with what command I have to run to do things.

  143. What about false positives? by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

    How much does it interfere with normal webserving behaviour? I mean, it may stop lots of malicious stuff, but what if it blocks the things that are not malicious too?

    1. Re:What about false positives? by ccsp · · Score: 1

      It has a very low false positive rate, and can be configured to prompt the user for each behavior, if that's desired. Most of the behaviors it stops are never benign, anyway. Keyloggers, mailing to every address in the address book, buffer overflows, self-modifying code, etc. Read more about it at http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/secursw/ps5 057/

  144. This is normal.. by Henk+Poley · · Score: 1

    Anyways, this is normal beviour for modern desktop systems. The filename is just a name (a label, a hint) and nothing more than that. For most people, especially those who who where used to DOS based operating systems, this might be a surprise. But it's kind of common nowadays.

  145. Announcement of third pary patch by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1

    Caveat emptor ... I have not tried this - Windows WMF Metafile Vulnerability HotFix.

    --
    .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
  146. Normal behavior by Cybrr · · Score: 1

    1. Use mime-type.
    2. Use extension.
    3. Use content.

    Skipping the first two, when they are present, is not normal.

    --
    Why did GEAR crush RDP?
  147. That is stupid by edmicman · · Score: 1

    Seriously, I think about security, too, but it's not worth running a 1GB virtual machine just to browse the freakin' internet.

  148. Late breaking news from the software development: by purcott · · Score: 1

    1) Yes, Virtual PC and WINE allow you to run Microsoft programs like Internet Explorer and Office.

    Actually, you can run Office and Internet Explorer on a Mac even without Virtual PC. Believe it or not, there exists Office:Mac and even IE (although Microsoft cancelled support and announced no longer updating past v5.2).

    Sorry to disappoint, but software developers often create packages that run on multiple platforms.