Thanks, very interesting. In all honesty, I appreciate the info.
All 3 point to the same study - http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/results/index.html . Reading thru the documents there, it's difficult to say that they came up with anything definitive. I mean, here's an excerpt from the "Media Group README" text file:
================ 'ABFOUND' (1) Collier--County officials said they discovered 25 uncounted absentee ballots in a still-sealed envelope after the rest of the absentees had been counted and recounted. 21 of these ballots contained votes ultimately included in certified totals, but officials cannot say if the remaining four were undervotes, overvotes or unqualified write-ins. So a precinct called "ABFOUND'' was created to account for the 25 ballots. ================
Hardly a compelling argument for overturned the previous 3 recounts.
> there is a greater concentration of > such individuals in the free/open source > world
Yup... I think that relates to the barrier being low for starting an open source project. I mean, all you have to do is find a web site somewhere. Any jerk can do that. To start a company, you usually have to get along with at least a few people:-)
> being rude/obnoxious to your > potential customers isn't a good > way to get them to give you money.
Can't argue with that.
It's too bad when developers are rude - someone approaching and asking a question is a golden opportunity for improvement - you can answer their question, and then go improve the documentation/code/web site to answer their question without your intervention in the future. All good stuff.
Re:Like it or not, managers default to commercial
on
What is Open Source?
·
· Score: 1
> the only support you'll get from > commerical software
Not "the only support", but, perchance, "many time the only support". Eschew absolutes!
> you work with very poor companies
Possibly.
> you have no experience working > in a professional environment
Could be. I'm a mere grasshopper!
> they have always been very > prompt and responsive
Excellent. A good situation, to be sure. Not the rule, though, I daresay.
> It is not unheard of to get custom builds
Nor is it unheard of to be deflected with a "wait until the next release".
> Open Source developers have to respect end users
"Open Source developers" are not a monolithic entity. They are just people. All kinds of folks write open source software - nice people, mean people, nice people who are having a bad day, people with big egos, people who want to help, etc.
That being the case, there will always be people who respond to questions with "RTFM j00 n00b." And there are others who will respond with "thanks for the feedback, please see question number 12 in the FAQ, does that help?".
If you're working on a project, you have a choice every time someone posts to your lists/forums/whatever - how will you respond?
> the thousands of dead and moribund > projects on SourceForge.
These are not a problem. Almost by definition, a dead project takes up very little disk space and consumes little or no resources.
The reason there are so many dead projects is that the barrier of entry is low. If I submit a new SF project proposal that says "Here's a Doom clone" and make it sound interesting, SF will grant the request. I might be the next Romero, in which case everything works great and there'll be tons of activity. Or I might be fooling myself, in which case there will be 20 KB of space in a DB2 database devoted to my dead project. Either way - I've had a chance to try. It's a good deal.
Re:Like it or not, managers default to commercial
on
What is Open Source?
·
· Score: 1
> and they'll probably be able to fix > the problem far quicker than you ever could.
Yup, they'll probably be able to fix it. But they won't fix it immediately. Instead, they'll say that's a "known issue" which should be solved by the next version, which will be out in a month. In the meantime, you can work around it by doing something clunky which you had figured out already.
> or we'll be re-evaluating our > business relationship
Any program that big and complex will have you tied down via its database schema/interface/licensing scheme/etc. "We'll switch to a competitor's product" will be an empty threat.
"It's a massive project" is more a argument for than against open source.
Although the government seems to be the worst at running educational institutions... yay vouchers!
> people starving to death in the streets
I agree that "people starving in the streets" is bad. I think folks, however, have found that socialism leads to people starving/freezing in their closet-like apartments when the government turns off the heat.
I've had that same problem with xinetd as well (truncating cvspserver options); a workaround is to make a/usr/bin/mycvspserver.sh in the xinetd configuration file and then put everything you need in there. A bit klunky, but it works.
Here's the cvspserver example - FAQ 14 in the admin section.
> his forays into Political and > Social Sciences sseem to be far > more respected than his Linguistics
Hm! That is a suprise. Usually it's the other way around - a skilled person will try to take advantage of his recognition in one field to make pronouncements in another and end up sounding like a dolt.
> appeared to carefully select its target, > according to journalists in the hotel,
We don't know if the building also harbored snipers. Or appeared to. Or had in the past. Or whether RPG-carrying foot soldiers were in the area. Or whether camera flashes appeared to be muzzle flashes. Or whether camera tripods looked like sniper tripods.
Combat, and especially urban combat, is dangerous.
> The very fact that you can freely > criticize the government without fear > of a visit from the secret police > is proof that you are not being oppressed.
Exactly. If I had points, I'd mod you up.
Any attempt to start a "Chinadot" in the People's Republic would be squashed faster than you can say "rm -rf/".
> deliberately killed several > independant journalists
That's misrepresenting the facts. Reporting from the midst of a battle is a hazardous occupation.
Here's a story about the media altering photographs to make the U.S. look bad - doesn't sound like an "extension of the white-house press office" to me.
Slashdot Mirror
Here's a report of duplicated code in the JDK, thanks to CPD.
Crikey!
> How about several:
l . Reading thru the documents there, it's difficult to say that they came up with anything definitive. I mean, here's an excerpt from the "Media Group README" text file:
Thanks, very interesting. In all honesty, I appreciate the info.
All 3 point to the same study - http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/results/index.htm
================
'ABFOUND' (1)
Collier--County officials said they discovered 25 uncounted absentee ballots in a still-sealed envelope after the rest of the absentees had been counted and recounted. 21 of these ballots contained votes ultimately included in certified totals, but officials cannot say if the remaining four were undervotes, overvotes or unqualified write-ins. So a precinct called "ABFOUND'' was created to account for the 25 ballots.
================
Hardly a compelling argument for overturned the previous 3 recounts.
It was a close one. But President Bush won.
> Independent counters determined that
> a state-wide recount would have given
> the state to Gore.
Please provide a citation, thanks.
> The counts were halted for specific
> counties that had not completed the counts yet.
Not counts, hand recounts. And recounts of recounts. Some folks were determined to recount votes until they got the result they wanted.
> they halted the Florida recount
The votes were recounted several times, with President Bush winning each recount.
> there is a greater concentration of
:-)
> such individuals in the free/open source
> world
Yup... I think that relates to the barrier being low for starting an open source project. I mean, all you have to do is find a web site somewhere. Any jerk can do that. To start a company, you usually have to get along with at least a few people
> being rude/obnoxious to your
> potential customers isn't a good
> way to get them to give you money.
Can't argue with that.
It's too bad when developers are rude - someone approaching and asking a question is a golden opportunity for improvement - you can answer their question, and then go improve the documentation/code/web site to answer their question without your intervention in the future. All good stuff.
> the only support you'll get from
> commerical software
Not "the only support", but, perchance, "many time the only support". Eschew absolutes!
> you work with very poor companies
Possibly.
> you have no experience working
> in a professional environment
Could be. I'm a mere grasshopper!
> they have always been very
> prompt and responsive
Excellent. A good situation, to be sure. Not the rule, though, I daresay.
> It is not unheard of to get custom builds
Nor is it unheard of to be deflected with a "wait until the next release".
> you're working with the wrong people.
Quite possible!
> Open Source developers have to respect end users
"Open Source developers" are not a monolithic entity. They are just people. All kinds of folks write open source software - nice people, mean people, nice people who are having a bad day, people with big egos, people who want to help, etc.
That being the case, there will always be people who respond to questions with "RTFM j00 n00b." And there are others who will respond with "thanks for the feedback, please see question number 12 in the FAQ, does that help?".
If you're working on a project, you have a choice every time someone posts to your lists/forums/whatever - how will you respond?
> the thousands of dead and moribund
> projects on SourceForge.
These are not a problem. Almost by definition, a dead project takes up very little disk space and consumes little or no resources.
The reason there are so many dead projects is that the barrier of entry is low. If I submit a new SF project proposal that says "Here's a Doom clone" and make it sound interesting, SF will grant the request. I might be the next Romero, in which case everything works great and there'll be tons of activity. Or I might be fooling myself, in which case there will be 20 KB of space in a DB2 database devoted to my dead project. Either way - I've had a chance to try. It's a good deal.
> and they'll probably be able to fix
> the problem far quicker than you ever could.
Yup, they'll probably be able to fix it. But they won't fix it immediately. Instead, they'll say that's a "known issue" which should be solved by the next version, which will be out in a month. In the meantime, you can work around it by doing something clunky which you had figured out already.
> or we'll be re-evaluating our
> business relationship
Any program that big and complex will have you tied down via its database schema/interface/licensing scheme/etc. "We'll switch to a competitor's product" will be an empty threat.
"It's a massive project" is more a argument for than against open source.
> how many folks actually buy a box
> solely for Linux on the Desktop
I did. It runs Evolution, Mozilla, Open Office, IDEAJ, etc. Works great.
> I just don't think that _only_
> capitalism is the answer.
Yup, I'm with you there.
> I think I have a lower opinion of
> human nature than they do.
Right on. "If men were angels, earth would be a little bit of heaven." But they're not, and it's not.
> (education)
Although the government seems to be the worst at running educational institutions... yay vouchers!
> people starving to death in the streets
I agree that "people starving in the streets" is bad. I think folks, however, have found that socialism leads to people starving/freezing in their closet-like apartments when the government turns off the heat.
> "capitalism makes for an
> unequitable and explotative system"
As does any form of government. I think we're converging on "life isn't fair".
> it also makes for the most efficient
> and productive system
Yup, it's the worst form of economy, except for all the others.
> an unequitable and exploitative system
I agree, high taxes and a welfare state make for an unequitable and exploitative system.
> is provided for all people
Who provides it?
> truncates my pure-ftpd options
I've had that same problem with xinetd as well (truncating cvspserver options); a workaround is to make a /usr/bin/mycvspserver.sh in the xinetd configuration file and then put everything you need in there. A bit klunky, but it works.
Here's the cvspserver example - FAQ 14 in the admin section.
Cool, thanks for the pointer.
> his forays into Political and
> Social Sciences sseem to be far
> more respected than his Linguistics
Hm! That is a suprise. Usually it's the other way around - a skilled person will try to take advantage of his recognition in one field to make pronouncements in another and end up sounding like a dolt.
Thanks.
> war is such a grey area i'nnt?
...I cant necessarily say that it brought out
Sure is - any time human lives are taken, it's heavy stuff.
> its very obvious to an outsider
> to see that US media is state
> controlled in a sense
Then why was there so much anti-war reporting in the U.S.? The Washington Post was strongly opposed to the war and its coverage reflected that.
> they are a thousand times more
> free in criticizing their government
Possibly, I'm not familiar with that...
> A democracy is as strong as the
> opposition parties to the governmet are
Fair enough, sounds reasonable.
> if things are not reported fairly,
> how will a common man be able to
> decide things for himself?
Right you are.
> every journalist pretends to be an
> expert in the matter he or she is
> reporting
True, a trap I find myself falling into as well.
> the british media reports events
> and news as they are.
They do?
> concept of socialism was so successful
>
> good to the common man
Yup, Stalin killed millions of his own people to fulfill communism, to no avail.
> watch whats being fed to you,
Good advice, for sure...
> appeared to carefully select its target,
> according to journalists in the hotel,
We don't know if the building also harbored snipers. Or appeared to. Or had in the past. Or whether RPG-carrying foot soldiers were in the area. Or whether camera flashes appeared to be muzzle flashes. Or whether camera tripods looked like sniper tripods.
Combat, and especially urban combat, is dangerous.
> British [my emphasis]
Ha! Right you are, score one for you. Mea culpa.
So here's another story; this time about Peter Jennings' reporting. He makes it easy...
"Your case [statement] is my case!"
> The very fact that you can freely
/".
> criticize the government without fear
> of a visit from the secret police
> is proof that you are not being oppressed.
Exactly. If I had points, I'd mod you up.
Any attempt to start a "Chinadot" in the People's Republic would be squashed faster than you can say "rm -rf
> deliberately killed several
> independant journalists
That's misrepresenting the facts. Reporting from the midst of a battle is a hazardous occupation.
Here's a story about the media altering photographs to make the U.S. look bad - doesn't sound like an "extension of the white-house press office" to me.
> That's your idea of criticism?
Yup.
> You really need to read some Chomsky
Sounds good. Any specific recommendations?