SMS, SARS, And Censorship

angkor writes with a link to this article about "How SMS messaging in China forced the government to acknowledge the 'fatal flu in Guangdong.' And the steps the Chinese government is taking to make sure it does not happen again."

Comments

I can see their reasons

[Keri Immos]

Well, I think it's perfectly understandable that the Chinese government block these SMS messages. It allows them to control their own country, instead of having to deal with rumor-spreading rabble rousers. Also, 120 million people hearing about this via SMS is small compared to the overall population of China, which is somewhere a little above one billion. That's a similar percentage to the 20-some million in the states who have heard about the penis length crisis.

Re:I can see their reasons

[freedommatters]

120 million is small but if they all tell their friends and they tell their friends and ...

john
Right Not Might

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

'Flamebait'? Not really; it's the way things are done in China. Sometimes people get so blinded that they assume any culture (i.e. Chinese) that differs to American culture is automatically "evil" and "oppressed", rather than actually practising tolerance for the fact that other cultures are different and not automatically better or worse. Perhaps we could have a bit more genuine tolerance here?

Re:I can see their reasons

[RiotNrrd]

That's a similar percentage to the 20-some million in the states who have heard about the penis length crisis.

There's a penis-length crisis??!?

Re:I can see their reasons

[James_Duncan8181]

'Flamebait'? Not really; it's the way things are done in China. Sometimes people get so blinded that they assume any culture (i.e. Chinese) that differs to American culture is automatically "evil" and "oppressed", rather than actually practising tolerance for the fact that other cultures are different and not automatically better or worse. Perhaps we could have a bit more genuine tolerance here?

Next week - So they like to machete people to death in Rwanda, who are we to critisise, it's how they do things there.
Also followed by "Closed trial hijinks in Saudi Arabia" and "Killing fields, schmilling fields", a comedy drama set in 1970s Cambodia.

If you really believe that crushing freedom of speech and individual rights is equal to a society based on personal freedom, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, stop trolling with such blatant fallacies; it doesn't make for a coherent argument. Murder is a fundamental wrong, considered evil by man and God. Keeping communications under control on the other hand is more of a matter of politics, and done for the overall good of the country. Not that this will make any difference I guess; you won't be happy until China has the US flag flying over it and has a full US constitution with that wonderful second amendment (hint: very little gun crime in China).

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

Ka-Ching! Give the man a prize! He got the joke!

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

More importantly, the amazingly well-ignored portion of the first amendment dealing with free speech! I love our goverment. "Either you are for us or against us. What's that? You disagree? TERRORIST!"

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you talking about? Nazi Germany wasn't leftist, it was the exact opposite. Let's try this again little timmy. Extreme conservatism is called "Nazi" and extreme liberalism is called "Communist." Try again, Reverand Jackass, you closed-minded fool. When you get to hell, say 'hi' to Hitler and your KKK friends for me, will you please?

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see now... you've invoked the Nazis... and you've started swearing violently after just a few lines. Both of these lead me to believe that you don't really have any valid arguments.
God help me, but I'm going to feed the troll; the US murders far many more innocent people than China, causes more war and poverty throughout the world with its expansionist imperialist policies of imposing fascism on defenseless middle-eastern countries. With all this, I hardly need get onto the pollution caused by the US, because of lardasses with their SUVs.

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

And all this time I just thought the water level was too high!

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, my bad. It was excessive. Just trying (too hard) to get some equal representation. Yeah, the communists screw up a hell of a lot, but you ignore the right-wing equivalents of them, the Nazis. I just get frustrated hearing arguments from the right that ignore the fact that if you can go too far left, you can also go too far right.

...expansionist imperialist policies of imposing fascism on defenseless middle-eastern countries...
And to go along with that, I agree completely, and I'm glad you used the word facist. It points out that we (U.S.) are getting too close to that line, and also why we hate communisim so much.

Re:I can see their reasons

[HiThere]

I think your classifications are a bit oversimplified.

E.g., Stalin was hardly a liberal of any stripe, yet he was the leader of putatively "communist" Russia. Since that is one of the few countries to have become communist, and one of the major ones, it's plausibly fair to take it as an type definition.

If I were to look for an analog to Stalin, the one I would pick would be Ivan the Terrible. So, then, Stalin is closely similar to an extreme autocrat.

Another of the early communists was Trotsky. He more nearly qualifies as a Liberal, or at least he appears to. But he also shows signs of desiring to be an autocrat.

Perhaps then, the real difference is between those governments that are ruled by autocrats, and those with a more dispersed power structure. The US has traditionally been an example of a government with a dispersed power structure, though it has been centralizing over the centuries, and esp. since the civil war, and extra especially since WWII. Perhaps we are now mid-way between an autocracy and a civilization with a decentralized government. I'm not certain. We may be much closer to an autocracy, depending on just how honest the electronic voting machines are. In at least one case they have been proven to be covertly manipulable to a degree that was noticable by the voters (i.e., they couldn't directly tell that their votes weren't counted, but they could tell when the precincts votes were tallied that some large number of people had had their votes switched). Most, or at least many, of these machines have no audit trail. None of them have source code which is open for examination. So we may already be in the late stages of conversion into a covert dictatorship, or at least oligarchy.

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

oh damnit. You weren't talking to me...Wrong AC. That's what I get for not logging in.

Re:I can see their reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they were, but I hope they made their point. In a pure theory sense, they should be right, but with people like Stalin and Trosky, the theory goes right out the window. btw, interesting stuff in your last paragraph. Any recommended reading material/links?

Re:I can see their reasons

[shaitand]

The Soviet Union was never anywhere near communist. To date there has NEVER been a communist form of government actually put into practice on a large scale.

Re:I can see their reasons

[geekee]

Yes. Most Communists govts. are actually scoialist govts. Communism is too moronic of a concept to even be possible to implement. You expect people to voluntarily place the welfare of strangers over those of their friends and family?

Re:I can see their reasons

[HiThere]

Depends on just which point you find interesting. For the increasing centralization nearly any history book will give evidence. Look into the arguments over, e.g., the Income Tax, or trace the percentage of taxes (or of the GNP) that is consumed by the Feds. Or check on the history of the draft. (For that matter, the constitution itself is a step towards centralization and away from the Articles of Confederation. Look at the "rather informal" authorization [hah!] that the authors of the constitution had...["I smell a rat. It squints towards monarchy." Patrick Henry] Pat was right, but it took a couple of centuries to arrive...possibly longer, but we are clearly on that path.)

For the voting machines... I don't have any good sources. I do know that I tried locally to determine how the audit trail worked, and why I didn't get a identifying reciept, and was told that there *wasn't* and audit trail. And I've also read this in "various online sources". Ditto for the source being closed. The rumor ... I can't dignify it as more than that ... is that all voting mahines are made by only a few companies (I've heard various single digit numbers...including one). One rumor said that they were made by a company owned by a Democrat who was a close friend of some Republican election official. OTOH, I believe that state election parameters are determined by each state separately, and I have heard that the voting machines in Oregon (Washington?) *do* have an audit trail.

The voter fraud that was detected was in one of the Gulf states. I want to say Georgia, but I don't remember the story well enough. It could even have been Texas, although I don't think so.

Another thing to remember is that fraudulent votes is a long time thing. The Daley machine in Chicago and Tahmey Hall (Tammeny Hall?) in the East (New York?) are nortorious examples. (See the Nast cartoons, esp. the ones featuring a tiger. Or "Boss Tweed".) So the voting machines are merely a new layer of deceit and corruption.

Sorry, no particular links.

Re:I can see their reasons

[shaitand]

Nope, just equally, and it only works with those who volunteer. Actually to be honest I don't think communism would work at all in practice as a form of government.

But I also believe the primary reason it wouldn't work is that nations are divided geographically. At some point we decided that it was about territory and borders on a map, in the real world this is needed for a number of practical reasons.

However, on the net there is an example of communism, TRUE communism that works. It's called open source software, remember, people don't have to contribute to the welfare of all BECAUSE they are kind and sweet, it can be for selfish reasons as well, so long as they do, and that is what makes the system tick, it's communism.

Re:I can see their reasons

[autocracy]

Just so you know, the autocracy is here...

Re:I can see their reasons

[gnovos]

'Flamebait'? Not really; it's the way things are done in China. Sometimes people get so blinded that they assume any culture (i.e. Chinese) that differs to American culture is automatically "evil" and "oppressed", rather than actually practising tolerance for the fact that other cultures are different and not automatically better or worse. Perhaps we could have a bit more genuine tolerance here?

'Flamebait'? Not really, it's the way I do things in my head. Sometimes people get so blinded that they assume any person (i.e. Child molesting murderer) that differs to Normal people is automatically "evil" and "oppressive", rather than actually practising tolerance for the fact that other people are different and not automatically better or worse. Perhaps we could have a bit more genuine tolerance here?

Re:I can see their reasons

[TheCrazyFinn]

You are aware that the Nazi's were a Socialist party?

The National Socialist German Workers Party.

And yes, they were an amalgam of Socialism and Fascism(Which is actually an Italian movement, not German).

Both Stalinism and Fascism are autocratic movements, neither are 'conservative' or 'Liberal' (And in fact, today, the 'Liberal' movement is conservative, as is some of the 'Conservative' movement, only the Neo-Cons and the Fourth International/Trotskyists are really liberal.)

The only effective difference between Noam Chomsky and Jerry Falwell is about 50 IQ points in Chomsky's favour. Both are Theocrats, just of different religions (Chomsky's religion being Transnational Progressivism, which is just as nasty and racist as Falwell's variation on Christianity)

Re:I can see their reasons

[Zeriel]

It seems to me that if said "cultural tolerance" message is "tolerance of a totalitarian regieme", then it might well be modded down.

slashdot needs some of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot users could use a nice dose of self-censorship!

Re:slashdot needs some of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot users could use a nice dose of self-censorship

Nah, they just need a job.

Re:slashdot needs some of this...

[Pig Hogger]

More likely a blowjob...

Note: a job that sucks doesn't qualify...

Re:slashdot needs some of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should just keep your blinders on.

That's repression for you

[EricWright]

Nothing like addressing a deadly disease by imprisoning anyone who gets worried about it and sends a message to a remote family member to have them send "a cure." I guess I should say it once again... Information wants to be free!

Re:That's repression for you

[the uNF cola]

Information doesn't want to be free.. it just wants to be healthy. :)

Re:That's repression for you

[Anonymous Coward]

> Information wants to be free

Or at the very least, good value.

Re:That's repression for you

[cybermace5]

I mean, what's the deal. So there's a sickness going around that's a little more fiesty than you average 24-hour bug.

Why keep it a secret? No one's going to blame you for it, every country goes through this stuff all the time. Is Communism so fragile that a few extra-heavy-duty flu cases will destroy it?

Seems like if a goverment wants to gain trust and credibility, they should flat-out tell the truth sometimes.

Re:That's repression for you

[2names]

The actions outlined by the article seem familiar to me... OH YEAH! It's the Patriot Act, but in China! I'm not kidding.

Re:That's repression for you

[DataCannibal]

Is Communism so fragile that a few extra-heavy-duty flu cases will destroy it?

In a word : Yes

Re:That's repression for you

[cybermace5]

Thank you (and the previous poster). That was kind of my point; what harm could announcing simple facts cause, to a stable government....

Re:That's repression for you

[rifter]

90% of everything is shit, except Slashdot where it's nearer 99%

I thought slashdot was going for five 9's of shittiness (99.999%). Maybe they are shitty at being shitty? Or just slacking again? :)

Re:That's repression for you

[jez9999]

Seems like if a goverment wants to gain trust and credibility, they should flat-out tell the truth sometimes.

Yep. The Americans should try it sometime.

China and Human Rights Abuse

[Michael's a Jerk!]

Alas, china has a long history of coverups - the Great Firewall of China being the most spectular. Last year they China invited the U.N. to investigate allegations of human rights abuse. Alas, with this so called 'war on Terror' the outcome has been forgotten.

Btw, The US also has censorship problems. Just look at how american news sources acted over Iraq - did a single mainsteam journalist criticize the government's plan?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

> did a single mainsteam journalist criticize the government's plan?

What channel were you watching? The way the media covered it, we were losing the war during the first weekend.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[iamdrscience]

"The Great Firewall of China" is China's most spectacular cover-up? What? That doesn't even remotely compare to when 62 dams in China failed in the course of one night. No news of these dams collapsing came out of China until years later despite the fact that this huge catastrophe caused at least 20,000 deaths (some estimate as high as 230,000 but really nobody knows) and over 1,000,000 survivors became homeless or famine-struck as a result of the floods.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> did a single mainsteam journalist
> criticize the government's plan?

Yes, many mainstream journalists criticized the Bush administration. Here's a Peter Jennings quote:

âoeItâ(TM)s no secret, now, that a great many American allies are very opposed to attacking Iraq unless the President makes a better case for it.â?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

can't you read? He didn't say it was "spectacular", he said it was "spectular"... IDIOT!

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[gazbo]

You're new round here aren't you.

On Slashdot, deaths, famine and the routine detentian and torture of political prisoners, breaching basic human rights, is insignificant next to the fact they can't "share" music on Kazaa.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[blibbleblobble]

"Btw, The US also has censorship problems. Just look at how american news sources acted over Iraq - did a single mainsteam journalist criticize the government's plan?"

More info about media coverage: basically just an extension of the white-house press office.

The military is also worthy of attention, having deliberately killed several independant journalists

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

That's your idea of criticism? You really need to read some Chomsky, then you might start to see what real criticism is.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[oZZoZZ]

US covers up just as much, maybe more.

Before the Cuban missile crisis, the US was bombing Cuba day and night, trying to undermine their economy by destroying sugar fields, trying to start an uprising against Fidel. Was the covered in the news? no.

... that's just one example, there are thousands that are known, and probably 10 times more that aren't.

The US is just as guilty as China is, the USSR was, and any other country out there is... you just don't hear about it =)

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> That's your idea of criticism?

Yup.

> You really need to read some Chomsky

Sounds good. Any specific recommendations?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[notque]

I might not be able to share music on Kazaa?!?!

Where do you get such information?!

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

BS. And you know it.

The US government has proven inept at coverups. For some reason, a good majority of Americans seem to really believe those words in the constitution.

As for the US bombing sugar fields in Cuba, that's preposterious. It's such a stupid premise, I don't know where to begin.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[sql*kitten]

Btw, The US also has censorship problems. Just look at how american news sources acted over Iraq - did a single mainsteam journalist criticize the government's plan?

You're talking nonsense. The very fact that you can freely criticize the government without fear of a visit from the secret police is proof that you are not being oppressed.

I'll flip it around: of the journalists who did criticize the government's plan, how many are in gulags now? I'll answer:

• None, because in the West we have a little thing called freedom of speech, and
  
• We don't have any gulags anyway. You're thinking of the Chinese, the North Koreans, the old Soviet Empire, the old Iraq, etc.
  

So mainstream journalists supported the President. Look at any opinion poll and you'll see that the majority of ordinary Americans did too. You haven't proven anything apart from the fact that journalists are people too!

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> deliberately killed several
> independant journalists

That's misrepresenting the facts. Reporting from the midst of a battle is a hazardous occupation.

Here's a story about the media altering photographs to make the U.S. look bad - doesn't sound like an "extension of the white-house press office" to me.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> The very fact that you can freely
> criticize the government without fear
> of a visit from the secret police
> is proof that you are not being oppressed.

Exactly. If I had points, I'd mod you up.

Any attempt to start a "Chinadot" in the People's Republic would be squashed faster than you can say "rm -rf /".

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Photon Ghoul]

It *was* a voluntary 'blackout' in that no media company in thier right mind wanted to appear:

1) "unpatriotic"
2) supportive of Saddam
3) supportive of terrorists
4) "unpatriotic"

You were either "with us or against us, good or evil". With such a black-and-white standard to be judged against, no one would get in the way of the holy crusade if they knew what was good for them.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Eunuchswear]

You say:

Here's a story about the media altering photographs to make the U.S. look bad

But the Guardian story says:

The Los Angeles Times has sacked a battlefront photographer for altering a photograph which showed a British [my emphasis] soldier telling Iraqi civilians to take cover from Iraqi fire.

I know some people think that the UK is soon to be the 51st state, but at the moment it still maintains the pretense of being an independant country.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

The very fact that you can freely criticize the government without fear of a visit from the secret police is proof that you are not being oppressed.

Wouldn't a visit by the secret police be, uhm... secret? And if a journalist would get fired for witing his opinion, wouldn't that be oppression?

So mainstream journalists supported the President. Look at any opinion poll and you'll see that the majority of ordinary Americans did too. You haven't proven anything apart from the fact that journalists are people too!

And that polls are useless. I stoped believing them long time ago. They are just a nice tool to tell people what they have to think to be normal. Also journalist shouln't be ordinary people. They should look at a more neutral angle than ordinary people, and maybe "enlighten", show things from a different angle, instead of following them... Anyhow, "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> British [my emphasis]

Ha! Right you are, score one for you. Mea culpa.

So here's another story; this time about Peter Jennings' reporting. He makes it easy...

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[sql*kitten]

And if a journalist would get fired for witing his opinion, wouldn't that be oppression?

No, because it's not the government doing it. All an editor can do is fire a reporter, and there's nothing to stop that reporter going to a rival newspaper and competing with his former employer. An editor can't have that reporter thrown in jail or anything.

Some journalists are hired to write "op ed", and some are hired to write accurate factual accounts. If a journalist does the former but was hired for the latter, then it's bias and the journalist should be fired for misconduct!

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because it's not the government doing it.

How can you tell? How do you know a newspaper is really independent? China may just be the most free country, but they are just not as good as the rest at covering up their press control? Who will tell...

All an editor can do is fire a reporter, and there's nothing to stop that reporter going to a rival newspaper and competing with his former employer.

But what if that rival doesn't like the opinion either? What if all media are controlled by the governement in some way? It would be hard to spot, and maybe not that hard at all to do...

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[j_rhoden]

Hmm, the US was bombing Cuba? You got any links to any sites that might support that theory at all?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[j_rhoden]

The same Noam Chomsky that once said Osama Bin Laden could be taken at his word? Sure thing, real criticism, right...

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[blibbleblobble]

"That's misrepresenting the facts. Reporting from the midst of a battle is a hazardous occupation."

Hazardous indeed if you're being carefully targeted by american tanks. From the article:

"In one incident, a U.S. tank fired an explosive shell at the Palestine Hotel, where most non-embedded international reporters in Baghdad are based. Two journalists, Taras Protsyuk of the British news agency Reuters and Jose Couso of the Spanish network Telecino, were killed; three other journalists were injured. The tank, which was parked nearby, appeared to carefully select its target, according to journalists in the hotel, raising and aiming its gun turret some two minutes before firing a single shell. "

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> appeared to carefully select its target,
> according to journalists in the hotel,

We don't know if the building also harbored snipers. Or appeared to. Or had in the past. Or whether RPG-carrying foot soldiers were in the area. Or whether camera flashes appeared to be muzzle flashes. Or whether camera tripods looked like sniper tripods.

Combat, and especially urban combat, is dangerous.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[2names]

Here's one: http://www.tinfoilhat.com

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[2names]

Well, really, most terrorists can be taken at their word. It's just that their word is usually something we don't want them to keep, e.g., "the infidels will die," "we will kill the infidels," etc.

I really their word was more along the lines of, "we will all take baths," or "we will skip and fling daiseys and stop killing infidels."

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[molo]

* We don't have any gulags anyway. You're thinking of the Chinese, the North Koreans, the old Soviet Empire, the old Iraq, etc.

What do you call Guantanamo Bay then?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[profplump]

Btw, The US also has censorship problems. Just look at how american news sources acted over Iraq - did a single mainsteam journalist criticize the government's plan?

Usually I'd first question how the fact that the press didn't cover something constitutes censorship, but that's just not appropriate here. Did you ever read a paper, watch TV, or listen to the radio anytime before the war? Or during the war? Or afteward? If so, how did you miss the blatent bashing of the war effort?

By the time we actually got to shooting at people, most of the media was behind the war. But if you look closely you'll find that even during the battle, there was freely available opposition in the media -- complaints about the battle plans, about the motivation for the war, etc.

Now, you could argue that there should have been more opposition in the press, or that a politically-free press isn't effective if it chooses not to cover things that aren't popular. When you argue censorship though, when all you really mean is "my personal viewpoint wasn't on TV enough to make me feel good" it makes your opinions very hard to respect.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[binkless]

If your looking for studious regard for facts, fair.org is not such a great place to start. They were the source of Super Bowl Battering hoax as well as the Rule of Thumb for Wife Beating hoax.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Quietdemon]

Speaking of censorship... Funny you should mention that the Chinese Govnt is covering up all this information but then I figure that's been their way all along. Which by no means implies that it's ok. So you raise the issue and we somehow discuss the topic and it eventually will fall through the cracks...and the wheel gets turned around bla bla. Somewhere in there I wonder how Chinsese civilians are taking this. In a certain sense freedom of speech is for everyone to enjoy, not only people in the West. Except for some minor differences in culture. Being oppressed and restrained from commenting would make the Chinese people want to shout out whatever it is that they feel in unjust. Not the same approach as us North Americans have obviously. Mind you, when they did, would we take it as a protest or actual dissemnination of information, without actually thinking that the person was inciting a riot? The way we view things is IMO very different from the way things are viewed in China, no matter how right or righteous our way of thinking is. On a side note, I have no idea if this topic has been discussed, but didn't the U.S. slightly censor Canadian citizens for not joining them in the war against Iraq? And before someone gets all gung-ho on my case, I don't blame the American people for this little tid-bit. Rather the American Govnt. I've written with many Americans who opposed the war and what was being said about Canada at that time (of course most came from American States that are closest to us.) Propaganda will run rampant whether in China or in N.A. so maybe the censorship is a little closer than you think. In Canada the same could be said, because either side of the fence that the P.M. sat on, he got shelled. Aaahh hidden agendas...don't leave home without them. P.s. in any event, I'm happy that the relationship between Canada and the U.S. didn't deteriorate more than it could have. It sure looked like it would.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[HiThere]

I'd be more willing to believe that the government was controlled by the same corporations that control the mass news media. (Are they down to five now?)

Whatever, even if there are still seven of them, the top management tends to agree on many policies (though, of course, they fight madly over others). If you disagree with something that the seven companies have choosen to agree on, you'll be lucky to work for chicken feed (i.e., parched corn, wilted lettuce, and kitchen scraps). At least, as a reporter. You might find a job as something else... grocery clerk?

The thing about an oligarcy is that you have relatively free expression where the oligarchs disagree, or where they don't feel defensive. But none elsewhere. Well... the mass media are owned by few enough companies that they can form an oligarchy without the need for a formal arrangement (which I doubt they have).

FWIW, *somebody* "Garrett"? Has been buying up the local papers (small town size rather than metropolitan) and forming them into a chain. So even the local news is being filtered through a set of corporate permissions. ("O, Sir, may I?" "Yes you may." "O, Sir May I?" "No, you may not.") So far the noticable effects have been slight. But they *have* been present.

Of course, the previous owners also had their filters. So this proves nothing except that different owners have different agendas. But the new owner is influencing opinions over a wide area, and isn't subject much to local feedback. You can't exert detailed control over a large number of independant entities, so you make them toe a common line. What else can you do (if you want to exercise centralized control)?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

a bucket of piss to drown rats in?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're telling me that i should have sympathy for a people whose culture thinks that gang rapeing a woman for a crime that her brother commited is 'okay' and whose religious leaders call people that hijack planes and slam them into buildings 'martyrs' - you're well, i don't know, confused maybe?

If someone points to an object that has a particular electromagnetic frequency coming off of it that's commonly called 'red' and tells you that its 'yellow' and you're under threat of death if you disagree then eventually red just becomes yellow to you and its just normal. However those that know the truth, all we can do is fight the ignorance that says that somehow a suicide bomber is some kind of 'balance of power' to western culture and military power. It isn't. I'd be the first to admit that I'm not proud of some of the things that my government has done, but by -insert deity here- when we bomb someone at least we damn well let them know its US and Why. Militant Islamic Terrorists have started to threaten our free and open society by making it less free and open. This will not be tolerated. I have no sympathy for people that advocate straping explosive shit to oneself and blowing up in a public place to send a message. Well the message has been heard. And the message we received is 'please come hunt us down and kill us.' The sad fact is, bless their hearts, the general American public does not hate the Arab people - the truth is, we really don't care enough about them to hate them. They generally hate us. Thats pretty much been shown time and again. Now the day the apathetic American public decides that they Hate, I mean vehemently hate them the way they hate us, well, they have a very real problem and are likely not going to exist for very much longer. But thats another story, one that I hope doesn't ever have to be told. But if it does, I think I know what side I'll be on.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[jefu]

As a strong believer in free speech and in the essential rights of humans (as opposed to churches, corporations and governments), I tend to see free speech as being one of the strongest defenses people have against such governmental abuses. Isn't it possible that the US government is already torturing prisoners in Camp Delta (or whatever it is called this week)? If no one is free to speak or write of it how would you know?

Free speech is essential to making such abuses known, to gathering people interested in changing abusive systems, and to reaching out to people outside the system for assistance. And essential change of such a system is impossible without allowing people to talk about such change.

And restrictions on P2P systems, file sharing, encryption, and internet speech - whether imposed by governments and enforced by governmental agencies, or by corporations are all ways to restrict speech.

It may seem farfetched, but it is not hard for me to see corporations like Sprint, Verizon, and MS imposing very strict limits on what kind of information can be exchanged over their networks. After all we have the example of AOL to show them the way. And of course since they're not the government they're not limited (in the US) by that pesky Constitution. Or perhaps a corporation will implement "Total Information Awareness" and "voluntarily" share such information with the government - why bother with search warrants after all?

These are all just different facets of the same problem. There are those (typically those in power) who see everyone else as a threat to their power - and who are seriously motivated to quash any such threat - real or imagined.

Paranoid? Maybe. Dont fight the corporate powers. Let them quash file sharing, plant bombs in your computer (Sen Hatch's quaint notion of reasonableness), censor your mail. Vote for every politician who is more in favor of "Homeland Security" than human rights. Let these things go unchecked and tell me in 20 years or so.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

>The sad fact is, bless their hearts, the general American public does not hate the Arab people - the truth is, we really don't care enough about them to hate them. They generally hate us. Thats pretty much been shown time and again. Now the day the apathetic American public decides that they Hate, I mean vehemently hate them the way they hate us, well, they have a very real problem and are likely not going to exist for very much longer

mod parent up. Insightful.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[geekee]

Site just one instance for me where the US govt. slaughtered a large number of US citizens for political reasons. the USSR has killed millions throughout its communist history, and I doubt China's record is any better.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[geekee]

They did nothing but criticize the govt. A sandstorm slows down the troops, and the media is saying the war will take over six months is just one instance. Yes the press showed what the White House and Pentagon were saying, but they told you when they were using those source, not claiming them as facts. They also regularly showed the Iraqi information minister and stuff from al Jazeera.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

war is such a grey area i'nnt?

US does it and calls acts of bravery, saddam does it and calls it "teaching a lesson to the infidels" and china does it under the name of social control. but its all murder and human rights violations. its very obvious to an outsider to see that US media is state controlled in a sense. How much criticizm of the government do u see on TV? honestly! Look at the british media - they are a thousand times more free in criticizing their government than american media is. A democracy is as strong as the opposition parties to the governmet are. once the opposition becomes weak, its not any different from autocratic or even communist governments. if things are not reported fairly, how will a common man be able to decide things for himself?
The problem with american media reporting is this - every journalist pretends to be an expert in the matter he or she is reporting and judges news/events as a part of the reporting. This is not fair reporting fyi. au contraire, the british media reports events and news as they are. I am saying this being an outsider - and by that I dont mean canadian.
corporate dominance creates oligarchy and plutarchy in a capitalistic society, if the people dont keep a check on them. This is why the concept of socialism was so successful during early 20th century, though I cant necessarily say that it brought out good to the common man.

my conclusion - watch whats being fed to you, else u will have a basket full of lies being poured into ur ears while u have your morning shot of caffine.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

> war is such a grey area i'nnt?

Sure is - any time human lives are taken, it's heavy stuff.

> its very obvious to an outsider
> to see that US media is state
> controlled in a sense

Then why was there so much anti-war reporting in the U.S.? The Washington Post was strongly opposed to the war and its coverage reflected that.

> they are a thousand times more
> free in criticizing their government

Possibly, I'm not familiar with that...

> A democracy is as strong as the
> opposition parties to the governmet are

Fair enough, sounds reasonable.

> if things are not reported fairly,
> how will a common man be able to
> decide things for himself?

Right you are.

> every journalist pretends to be an
> expert in the matter he or she is
> reporting

True, a trap I find myself falling into as well.

> the british media reports events
> and news as they are.

They do?

> concept of socialism was so successful
> ...I cant necessarily say that it brought out
> good to the common man

Yup, Stalin killed millions of his own people to fulfill communism, to no avail.

> watch whats being fed to you,

Good advice, for sure...

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[/dev/trash]

Yeah I'd like some proof too. I mean if we were bombing the Cubans, the USSR would have raised a big stink in the UN. Plus why would we go from Covert actions like the Bay of Pigs to bombing and not finish the job????

Cuba is not that big, so 'hiding' the bombing I don't think was feasible.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean it does not happen yet in the good old US of A.

Looking at the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if it starts happening like that.

Good thing I am not in the good old US of A.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[rifter]

Many would recommend Manufacturing Consent. I did not read this book however, I saw the documentary movie of the same name, which was made in Canada because it could not be made in the USA. It is interesting that while Chomsky is a Linguist by trade, his forays into Political and Social Sciences seem to be far more respected than his Linguistics. Of course for many Chomsky counts as an all-around nutter. I think he has some interesting things to say and whereas you may or may not agree with his opinions, he makes some interesting points about the media, information in general, how society disseminates it and people absorb it.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[tcopeland]

Cool, thanks for the pointer.

> his forays into Political and
> Social Sciences sseem to be far
> more respected than his Linguistics

Hm! That is a suprise. Usually it's the other way around - a skilled person will try to take advantage of his recognition in one field to make pronouncements in another and end up sounding like a dolt.

Thanks.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[brownaroo]

Just because you can do the certain things doesnâ(TM)t mean you are not being oppressed. By telling a population they are not being controlled because they can do X and Y and in other EVIL countries cant do these things does not show how free they are is just a way of tricking/controlling a population. The people in power in America know they donâ(TM)t need to be as heavy handed to control the country, but they control it none the less. If America is so free then why was there slavery in this land? And even in the last 50 years rights of black people have been 2nd rate. Sure they are improving now but when they were still shit, American still said it was the freest country around. I know slavey and black right is sliding off topic but I think it shows how the general population can still think that things are great when they are not. Americanaâ(TM)s have restrictions they other countries donâ(TM)t have. The American mindset is very controlled. I donâ(TM)t want to bash Americans, many are very aware of these issues particularly a lot of the readers on this site. And the ones who arenâ(TM)t are not necessary EVIL, but more likely nice people. Me bashing Americans would just be no different than Americans saying North Korea is Evil. I just think that a lot need to wake up, not be over paranoid, but be aware. The word of the media is very powerful, the fact that US media coverage was very one-sided lead to the fact that most Americans supported the war, where as most of the rest of the world did not. There is a lot of deception in life, every where you go you will find it, but it seems to thrive in the US of A

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[AJWM]

Precisely.

Ever noticed how much a shoulder mounted professional video camera with eyepiece viewfinder and a nice wide telephoto lens looks like a shoulder mounted RPG launcher with eyepiece viewfinder and a nice wide barrel? Especially to somebody a few hundred yards away that the thing is being pointed at?

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[superyooser]

The most desirable place to live in Cuba.

Re:China and Human Rights Abuse

[sql*kitten]

America is so free then why was there slavery in this land? And even in the last 50 years rights of black people have been 2nd rate.

You know, slavery isn't uniquely American. For centuries there have been empires with slaves, the Persians, the Ottomans, the Chinese, the Romans and many many more.

What is unique about America in particular and Western culture in general is that the slaveowners and potential slaveowners fought for the freedom of slaves. Ever heard of that little thing called the American Civil War? Hundreds of thousands of whites died so that blacks could be free.

know slavey and black right is sliding off topic but I think it shows how the general population can still think that things are great when they are not.

On ther contrary, it is on topic. It illustrates (assuming you are American) just how ignorant the average American is of the true accomplishments of your country. And you do know that China still has slave labour?

Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[weeble]

Pesky citizens allowing the truth to get out!!!

They closed down the Internet Cafes!

The Government now need to remove all mobile phones.

Breaking news is that they may ban speach altogether

:-)

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't need to ban speach. I can't understand a word they're saying anyway!

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[AdEbh]

Nobody understands Chinese anyhow

Yeah, and all those chinese in China (the worlds most populous country) are speaking Swahili.

How your ignorant thoughts got moderated up I'll never know.

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[Anonymous Coward]

Were you born without a sense of humor, or did it just atrophy over time from disuse?

It wasn't a very funny joke, but it's pretty fucking obvious that it was intended as a joke.

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[Merk]

Speach huh? That's pretty Alanis-ironic.

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[FroMan]

Okey folks, when the parent and grandparent of this post spell speech as speach I think there is a problem.

Folks, I'm not really a grammar-warrior or anything. Heck, I spell things wrong on a regular basis. But when a free-speech advocate cannot even spell the word there is a problem.

Sure, it might be a typo, but for both the parent and grandparent to typo?

Re:Chinese Government makes sure no one uses SMS

[rifter]

Look, they're free speech advocates who went through the US Public UnEducation system. Have a heart, you insensitive clod! :)

It's the same the world over

[freedommatters]

"Its technology allows it, for example, to search the country's entire volume of email traffic for words such as "Falungong", or to monitor any individual's text messages.

Anyone snared in its high-tech web can expect surveillance, intimidation, arrest and prison."

and that is different from the US and the UK how exactly? maybe they search for different words but the principle is the same.

john
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights

Re:It's the same the world over

[WPIDalamar]

It's different becaus the US can only use that information in the search of terrorism. (or at least that's how it will be eventually with the way things are going!)

After that happens, look for the ever broadening scope of terrorism...

Murder? You make people afraid... TERRORIST!
Armed Robbery? TERRORIST!
Speeding? TERRORIST!
Jaywalking? TERRORIST!

Re:It's the same the world over

[Anonymous Coward]

Questioning the Right and Correct practices of our Kind and Generous Government? TERRORIST!

Re:It's the same the world over

[sql*kitten]

and that is different from the US and the UK how exactly? maybe they search for different words but the principle is the same.

I invite you to post a link from a reputable news site (say the FT or NY Times) reporting that a single innocent person has been arrested or imprisoned in the US or EU as a result of interception of SMS messages.

Go on.

Use google to help you, if you like.

Use Lexis/nexis if you have access to it.

You won't find one because guess what, it never happened. Nothing that has ever happened in the US or UK even compares to what is par for the course in China or North Korea.

I know you think you're a "rebel" but guess what, criticizing the government is a trend, nothing more. It's what all the cool kids are doing these days. And you can't even see that you're being led by the nose as part of the crowd.

Re:It's the same the world over

[freedommatters]

rebel? trend? kid?

sorry, you have the wrong person.

to answer your question. i'm not going to waste my time acting as your research gimp but even if there is no headline screaming "good guy sent to jail after sms conviction" it doesn't mean that people haven't been spied upon, arrested or even imprisoned based partly on the evidence gained from sms messages.

it also doesn't mean it won't happen in the near future.

it's an accepted fact that echelon exists (presuming the BBC is an ok source for you?). do you honestly think it doesn't handle sms?

john
Big Dubya Is Watching You

Re:It's the same the world over

[sql*kitten]

to answer your question. i'm not going to waste my time acting as your research gimp but even if there is no headline screaming "good guy sent to jail after sms conviction" it doesn't mean that people haven't been spied upon, arrested or even imprisoned based partly on the evidence gained from sms messages.

Right, "just because it never happened, doesn't mean it never happened." You liberals are all the same - you whine like babies about a free and open society, but you will believe and say anything to protect a communist dictatorship.

it's an accepted fact that echelon exists (presuming the BBC is an ok source for you?). do you honestly think it doesn't handle sms?

Police forces have used surveillance on criminals since long before electronic communication even existed. What's your point?

Re:It's the same the world over

[James_Duncan8181]

Please note that it is almost always impossible to find reliable information on intelligence activites. However it would be prima facie illogical to spend quite large sums to havest intelligence from wireless voice/data transmissions and then fail to use it.

And no, I have no love at all for dictatorships, communist or not.

Re:It's the same the world over

[freedommatters]

but you will believe and say anything to protect a communist dictatorship.

nonsense. i'm just pointing out that all major states do it. it's not a communist trait, or a capitalist trait. it's about control of the population.

What's your point?

god. my point is that echelon doesn't just listen in on criminals. read about it.

john
The Government Owns My A$$...

Re:It's the same the world over

[vslashg]

Murder? You make people afraid... TERRORIST!
Armed Robbery? TERRORIST!
Speeding? TERRORIST!
Jaywalking? TERRORIST!
Can't get your stories posted to slashdot? You're guarenteed to here! [geek4.com]

More like...
Can't get your stories posted to slashdot? TERRORIST!

Re:It's the same the world over

[ReverendRyan]

Actually, Title VIII Sec. 802 of the PATRIOT Act defines "domestic terrorism" as acts that:

"(A)Involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the crimial laws of the United States or of any State;

(B)appear to be intended to (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."

Re:It's the same the world over

[sulli]

Kitten: It's not the liberals who are avoiding cracking down on China. Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (my representative) has been a critic of the PRC for years, and opposed normal trade relations (for example). Conservatives in the US tend to be the ones pushing for normalization with that particular regime -- even as they demand that Castro's similarly repressive (but less prosperous) dictatorship be sealed off from the world.

Big news?

[Groote Ka]

The China government is already for quite some years working on censorship of electronic media. I cannot imagine that this is the first time they monitor and 'regulate' SMS traffic. When it is the first time, the Chinese are not as smart as I would have thought them to be.

Furthermore, SMS is nothing more than e-mail, basically (even little less, duh...). Problems will occur when foreign network companies will enter China, for example Vodafone. On the other hand, quite some Western countries are happy to co-operate with the Chinese government to apply censorship. Even from the land of the free.

and SMS is bad because???

[eclasssystems]

God forbid that a countries government actually listens to its citizens. This just boggles the mind to think that there would be an outcry from this. Granted my neighbors car kills more ppl per year than SARS does but if there were a life threatening disease down the road from my house I'd like to know about it.

Re:and SMS is bad because???

[mizukami]

Granted my neighbors car kills more ppl per year than SARS does

Your neighbor's car kills over 1000 people per year? Man, your neighbor needs some serious driving lessons...

Re:and SMS is bad because???

[rifter]

The car does not need a driver. Her name's Christine. :)

China shops at Villian Supply

[Michael's a Jerk!]

The Good folks at Villain Supply are selling a VAGUE, PANIC-PROVOKING COMMUNICABLE DISEASE for a mere US$149,999.99.

As the age of SARS has proven, nothing scares the gullible, scientifically illiterate population like a vague, panic-provoking communicable disease. Just tack a scary acronym onto any poorly-defined set of flu-like symptoms, and watch the fun begin.

Your Vague, Panic-Provoking Communicable Disease comes with several medical journal articles identifying the disease in the most non-specific terms possible, a batch of press releases, and 25% ownership of a face mask factory.

Mod me down if you must, but I couldn't resist.

Re:China shops at Villian Supply

[emoeric]

while you're at villainsupply, pick up a missile silo to base your disease-spreading operation from.

oh, and take over the world after you unleash "SARS 2: The Mutation"

I wonder when..

[MrZilla]

..we'll see encrypted SMS? On the other hand, if it's not already, it'll probably soon be a criminal offense to send any encrypted messages over there as well..

Re:I wonder when..

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not like you can rewrite firmware in your cellphone or write new one from scratch. Short answer: you will not see encrypted SMS or encrypted calls anytime soon (basically because operators must store them for up to two years, for help in "investigations"). Encryption in cellphones is going to be reserved for DRM.

Re:I wonder when..

[MrZilla]

True, but there is already ways to run Java on cellphones, mabye you could use that to encrypt the text before sending it? Granted, you would not be able to encrypt very long messages, but it's a start. And now that MMS is on the way, we might see some new custom software for phones soon.

Re:I wonder when..

[EddWo]

you could always do it yourself, just work out a basic replacement cipher. A=N X=B etc. Of course you would have to have some way of letting the other person know the code, but I doubt the SMS monitoring systems would bother to try to decode it.

Re:I wonder when..

[blibbleblobble]

"I wonder when we'll see encrypted SMS?"

You can do it already using a one-time-pad if you want to communicate with particular people. SMS is very short anyway, and completely textual, so manual use of a OTP should be no trouble at all, and considerably more secure than anything your mobile-phone company could (or would) create.

Re:I wonder when..

[cilix]

The problem would be the same as all other non-centralised encryption techniques (pgp etc). It's damned inconvenient. For a start each person you talk to is going to have to have some kind of key for you (or you for them) which makes the whole thing massively impractical.
You clearly can't just use encryption to and from the server (ssl type things) because the government will control the servers... p2p encryption is the only way, but its not really viable.

Re:I wonder when..

[Arslan ibn Da'ud]

Ha! How many characters are there in the Chinese alphabet? Thousands? Short to say, I've not seen many articles on Chinese cryptography. Hmmm, wonder why...

Re:I wonder when..

[vr]

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3669.html

Re:I wonder when..

[EddWo]

I was wondering about that too, I didn't RTFA but what form do chinese SMS messages take? Go they use GSM or another system? Do they use a different character set? How do they type them in on their phones? Anyway, the larger the character set the more secure a replacement cipher becomes. In English these codes are easy to crack by looking at the most commonly used characters, usually E.

Re:I wonder when..

[HiThere]

An important distinction here:
encrypted vs. encoded
encryption may (or may not) be difficult over SMS.
encoded would not be. The already cryptic form of abbreviated messages would make it easier both to implement and to hide.

encoding is basically using a lookup table as a translator. A good lookup table is some popular book (the bible was an old favorite, but other choices would work also). Composing the message can be a chore, but one way of doing it is this:
1) write out the message
2) select first word to send
3) while not done
4) read through book until encountering the word desired
5) choose the following word as the word to send
6) select next word to send

To decode the message one essentially needs to use the same book. There are various tricks to make this more secure and less obvious as your best chance is, of course, not to be noticed, but even if the messages are noticed, decoding them is quite non-trivial until you know the code book.

Encryption, however, tends to be a) much more blatent, and b) either easy to break or dependant on mechanical support. Your best choice here is to include the message in a zip file or as a part of a binary. (Not something that SMS is noted for handling gracefully.)

If it's illegal to send secret messages, you are better off with coded messages, but that requires pre-arrangement with the receiving party.

Oh I see

[Anonymous Coward]

And the steps the Chinese government is taking to make sure it does not happen again.

Oh I see, they're going to block SMS.

no, I didnt rtfa yet, but in slashdot tradition I figure I get my comment out of the way.

Hmmmm

[ducster]

Typical chinese government really, cover it up and silence those who speak. Abuse the power they have for their own benefit. Actually, sounds like pretty much most governments

Re:Hmmmm

[MrZilla]

With the diffrense beeing that in most goverments, this isn't exactly legal. But it sure looks like they want it to be sometimes..

the linked article

[vierja]

Beijing goes high-tech to block Sars messages

16.06.2003
By HENRY HOENIG in Beijing

By early February the people of Guangdong province had begun to panic, pouring into stores and clearing out supplies of Western antibiotics, vinegar and Chinese herbal tea, all of which were rumoured to fend off a mysterious virus the world would come to know as Sars.

But the virus had not yet been given a name. In fact, its existence had not even been acknowledged by the Chinese Government or by the media.

Yet by February 10 news of a "fatal flu in Guangdong" had reached 120 million people through text messaging, say some reports, and an untold extra number through email and internet chatrooms.

Chinese authorities had little choice but to acknowledge the outbreak and try to restore calm.

The Government had been taught a painful lesson about controlling the news in a burgeoning high-tech society.

That message would be repeated under similar circumstances two months later, when it was forced to admit it had been covering up the number of Sars cases in Beijing. In return, it has since sent a few painful messages of its own.

By mid-February, officials began complaining about the use of text messaging to spread "rumours", deeming them subversive activity and a threat to stability. Then they began arresting people.

By the end of May, 117 people in 17 provinces had been arrested and charged with disturbing social order by spreading Sars-related rumours, the Xinhua news agency reported.

The official People's Daily said on June 8 that 108 Falungong followers in Hebei province had been arrested for spreading rumours that hindered the Government's bid to control Sars, but did not state how those rumours were spread.

In the past, such arrests would probably have received little publicity. But this aspect of the Sars crisis and the following crackdown illustrate the enormous challenges Beijing faces in trying to maintain control of news and information in the age of communications technology, and the strategy it has developed to meet those challenges.

With its control slipping, the Government's response has been to combine cutting-edge technology with "low-tech Leninist" repression. Its technology allows it, for example, to search the country's entire volume of email traffic for words such as "Falungong", or to monitor any individual's text messages.

Anyone snared in its high-tech web can expect surveillance, intimidation, arrest and prison.

The publicity surrounding the arrests and prison sentences helps the Government achieve what experts say is its strategy of creating a climate of fear in which the people begin censoring themselves.

"Self-censorship is a much more effective way of controlling the internet," said University of Hawaii professor Eric Harwit, author of Shaping the Internet in China.

"They obviously can't arrest everybody who criticises the Government but they can publicise the penalties people could face."

Greg Walton, an expert on surveillance technology in China, said surveillance was crucial to the Government's goal of implementing self-censorship.

Of course, Beijing has hardly abandoned its efforts to censor the internet. But blanket censorship is reserved for extreme situations, and this fact reflects its long-standing dilemma: while it desperately wants to control the flow of news and opinion, especially dissent, it also wants an open, modern and efficient economy, including a state-of-the-art telecom and information infrastructure.

Its solution has been selective censorship of the news and increased monitoring of internet chatrooms, email, text messaging and individuals' surfing habits for "subversive activity".

Even before the Sars-related crackdown, at least 35 people had been arrested in the past few years for posting "subversive" writing on the internet, said Amnesty International. Five of them had been sentenced to a combined 41 years in jail.

"The cyberpol

BIG BIG BROTHER

[Anonymous Coward]

Well ... China has around 30,000 government employees whose sole function is to monitor and censor communications over the Internet.

The fact that SMS was used in this case isn't a big deal. The current cellular platforms deployed in China do not allow filtering, tracking, etc. at the basestation level. However, as someone who worked on these danged things, the new base stations have features that track and filter all SMS traffic.

At the end of the day, network communication is not anonymous and it is sad that people who do not have a total understanding of technology get others into trouble.

Re:BIG BIG BROTHER

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they need to filter SMS traffic at the basestation level? All SMS traffic is sent/received by a SMSC, which is the central point where all SMS traffic is routed through.

Logging/filtering on the SMSC is trivial and is probably already done in more countries than China.

How wonderfully effective...

[mgcsinc]

"In March last year it required all websites and domestic and foreign internet providers to sign a "self-discipline pact" obliging them not to disseminate "harmful texts or news likely to jeopardise national security and social stability, violate laws and regulations, or spread false news, superstitions and obscenities"."
I love the references to rumors, superstitions, etc. When will the Chinese government take into account the lessons of history and realize that the best way to cultivate rumors and suspicion is to have a population as in the dark as the one they have created. You let your media report freely, and rumors will be quickly shot down with reliable references. You control your media, and you lost the trust of your citizens, who, not knowing any better source, trust the equally-uninformed rumors which then spread like wildfire.
In addition, I read with utter amusement China's wish to maintain a huge telecom and information infrastructure. Would someone like to explain how a nation so inhibiting of communication and information expects to make use of such technology... It's hypotrical, China would love to look Western while keeping its citizans controled in this fashion, and they'll never prove sucessful.

Re:How wonderfully effective...

[Baron_Yam]

Is it just me, or should we smuggle 1 billion copies of '1984' into China?

Re:How wonderfully effective...

[eaolson]

When will the Chinese government take into account the lessons of history and realize that the best way to cultivate rumors and suspicion...

But they're not worried about whether or not rumors and suspicion are circulating. They're worried about being able to control the amount and veracity of the information that reaches the public. If the unofficial version of the truth is declared a "rumor" they can crack down on it.

Re:How wonderfully effective...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

,i>Is it just me, or should we smuggle 1 billion copies of '1984' into China?

Yes, let's smuggle subversive literature into a country where crime statistics are a state secret.

Re:How wonderfully effective...

[rifter]

Is it just me, or should we smuggle 1 billion copies of '1984' into China?

We could always disguise them as pirated copies of Office XP...

Bertrand Russell's commandments

[danielrendall]

I've got no idea why people don't pay more attention to these...

2. Do not think it worth while to proceed by concealing evidence, for the evidence is sure to come to light.

6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.

Offtopic - #7 seems appropriate for the /. readership, but you'll have to look it up...

Re:Bertrand Russell's commandments

[flagweb]

A LIBERAL DECALOGUE By Bertrand Russell Perhaps the essence of the Liberal outlook could be summed up in a new decalogue, not intended to replace the old one but only to supplement it. The Ten Commandments that, as a teacher, I should wish to promulgate, might be set forth as follows:

1. Do not feel absolutely certain of anything.

2. Do not think it worth while to proceed by concealing evidence, for the evidence is sure to come to light.

3. Never try to discourage thinking for you are sure to succeed.

4. When you meet with opposition, even if it should be from your husband or your children, endeavor to overcome it by argument and not by authority, for a victory dependent upon authority is unreal and illusory.

5. Have no respect for the authority of others, for there are always contrary authorities to be found.

6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.

7. Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

8. Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent that in passive agreement, for, if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter.

9. Be scrupulously truthful, even if the truth is inconvenient, for it is more inconvenient when you try to conceal it.

10. Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise, for only a fool will think that it is happiness."

"A Liberal Decalogue" is from The Autobiography of Bertrand Russell, Vol. 3: 1944-1969, pp. 71-2. Copied from the Bertrand Russell Society's website

We're OK.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, there's no water. The island isn't sinking. We're all fine.

So China has Echelon too?

[Pond823]

Once again China lags behind the west in technology. First it was taking so long over Red Flag Linux and now it is it's Echelon like abililty to trace SMS's. I wonder how long it will be before they use mobile phone chasing cruise missles like the US in Afghastan?

China is watching you!

[thelandp]

During the height of the IT boom I was wokring for an internet startup. One of the other teams in the company was writing some spyware (not particularly happy about it, but work is work). The software sent all of your web clicks to the server to be perused at leisure.

Guess who one of our major customers was ... the Chinese Government!

Luckily it never got off the ground...

Re:China is watching you!

[Anonymous Coward]

How can the Chinese Government be a customer of a product that never got off of the ground?

Re:China is watching you!

[Lord_Dweomer]

"During the height of the IT boom I was wokring for an internet startup. One of the other teams in the company was writing some spyware (not particularly happy about it, but work is work). "

Work is work? During the height of the boom? You have to be shitting me....every highschooler who was smart enough to put down "internet, HTML, webpage design" on their resume got a job.

I'm curious as to the personality of the people working on that project if you happen to know. Were they having serious ethical issues with the task they were given? Seriously, I'd love to know more about the people who write, or contract people to write, spyware and what goes through their minds. Ask Slashdot anyone?

Re:China is watching you!

[cduffy]

Well, they could have signed an agreement to purchase the product after it became available. They could have funded its development. They could have been {alpha,beta} testers, "partners", whathaveyou.

I'm working for a startup right now, and just because we haven't released yet doesn't mean we don't have customers.

Re:China is watching you!

[geekoid]

"(not particularly happy about it, but work is work). "

I wonder hw many people thought that same thing when commetng deeds agains a populace?

If nobody did it, it wouldn't get done.
I'm not pointing fingures, because If it was "write spyware, or don't feed your family" I don't know what I would do. I would like to think I could come up with another plan, but i haven't been there.

Re:China is watching you!

[thelandp]

I think the reasons why the team was doing it in spite of ethical considerations are:

We all knew pretty much from the start that the product would almost certainly never sell. Like so many internet startup software products, it basically wasn't useful to the end user.

No one wanted to lose the job because the work environment was fantastic. Table tennis in the middle of the work area; regular Unreal Tournament sessions; flexible hours; great rates...

Although you can only take so much of the surreal environment that comes from working on something you don't believe in.

Re:China is watching you!

[Anonymous Coward]

What goes through their mind? I'm in a company that is currently developing such software. I'm not directly involved and am among those urging that we shouldn't sell it. However, there's only a few of us.

Among the others, the opinion is a mixture of (1) hey, we need the money, (2) China isn't the _worst_ place in the world and (3) complete ignorance about human rights abuses in China. It find it absolutely incredible, but there you go.

Re:How is this censorship?

[mgcsinc]

Well, I don't know where exactly you would yell "fire in a crowded theatre," (all in quotes) but where's the precident that makes an exception to free speach for "subversive rumors?"

Keep Stories Like This in Mind

[Anonymous Coward]

When you bitch about those evil, unjust copyright laws, the RIAA/MPAA, DCMA and Microsoft here in the US.

We could have it a *lot* worse.

Re:Keep Stories Like This in Mind

[vadim_t]

What's that supposed to mean? That we should just feel happy things aren't as bad here as in China, and ignore things like the DMCA? That's exactly the kind of mentality that allows crap like what's going on in China to happen.

Re:Keep Stories Like This in Mind

[klmth]

And we will, unless we remain vigilant.

Re:Keep Stories Like This in Mind

[tim_bissell]

Two words "Homeland" "Security".

(or for the UK, only one word: RIPA)

Re:Keep Stories Like This in Mind

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because I'm not being beaten to death by my government doesn't mean I should be happy about the crap the RIAA/MPAA and Microsoft pull. I'm greedy; I want a life free of beatings to death, microsoft's monopoly abuse propping up their crappy software and melancoly elephant (Thanks Spider) copyright laws.

I want it all.

Famine and Epidemic

[drdale]

The philosopher Amartya Sen has argued that the best way to prevent catastrophic famine is to have freedom of expression. When the world community sees that an area is moving toward serious famine, it is able to respond in time to keep the problem from becoming too severe. But when a government hides how bad things are getting until it is too late, you have mass starvation. SARS seems to illustrate that the same may hold in the case of epidemic. If China had told the outside world about SARS earlier, then its spread could probably have been slowed. And perhaps it at least was slowed some inside China through the spread of information by SMS (if ordinary citizens knew how to respond to the information properly).

Re:Famine and Epidemic

[Anonymous Coward]

"When the world community sees that an area is moving toward serious famine, it is able to respond in time to keep the problem from becoming too severe"

And what if the country does not allow third parties to distribute aid and requires all aid to be channeled through them... and turn around and sell it to surrounding countries to buy more weapons? <cough>north korea</cough>

Re:Famine and Epidemic

[The Cydonian]

Fascinating point, wholly taken, but I won't call Amartya Sen as a 'philosopher'. His job spec is more development economics than anything else. :-)

Re:Famine and Epidemic

[yoha]

Interesting point, it directly ties into this news piece from the NYT.

I do think it idealist. There are plenty of cases in which we are fully aware of the suffering and starvation of a people, but little is done to react to it.

Re:Famine and Epidemic

[whoisjoe]

That certainly makes sense. Similarly, your mistakes do a lot less damage when you promptly admit to them, rather than trying to cover them up.

There may be repercussions in admitting you screwed up, but covering them up only makes those catastrophic.

This brings to mind this quote: "Most of our faults are more pardonable than the means we use to conceal them." - Francois de La Rochefoucauld

Re:Famine and Epidemic

[Anonymous Coward]

But he also talks about the ethics of economics, which is essentially a philosophical topic.

SARS Rumor Mongering in Southern California

[crazyhorse44]

in the San Gabriel Valley... someone began circulating an email stating that several cases had been found locally and named specific restaurants and markets that had been closed.

The first time I read it I thought it was a hoax, but then a friend who worked at a local hospital called me and told me they were distributing it as a general alert at the hospital.

I ended up going to the Police Department, scared, to find out. Turns out the email was a fraud, and that the PD had been recieving 500 calls a day about it. The establishments mentioned had seen a decrease in business of 50% as a result of some A-HOLE playing a joke. This is similar to what happened in China, I think. I would applaud if they caught the originator and put them in prison.

SECOND EMAIL.

Re:SARS Rumor Mongering in Southern California

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God Sam Woo and Noodle Planet are okay!

Re:SARS Rumor Mongering in Southern California

[HiThere]

The thing is, it doesn't even require a rumor. My wife started worrying about going to a chinese resturant because "the people their might have relatives in China, and they might have been visiting". Not assertions of truth, but fears. And fears that weren't quite groundless. (It might be/have been true.)

It seems to me that chinese resturants currently still have a larger proportion of chinese customers that was common previously...but this is so small that it could easily be statistical fluctuation.

A bit like America

[IdleLay]

Please don't give GWB ny more ideas!

Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[Advocadus Diaboli]

The German magazine "Telepolis" (from Heise.de) has an interesting article about SARS in the USA.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[Duncan3]

Wow, had it not been for the link inside that article I wouldn't have known SARS had hit the US at all (sarcasm). 404 total cases (insert joke here). The media has suppressed all information about any US-based cases - even Google news can't find a single story about US infections. Impressive censorship for a free country.

Of course by now we all know SARS only active when it's cold, so this coming winter should be interesting... but meanwhile dozens of stories are running about SARS being wiped out completely.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[raduga]

Well, if China is successful in their SMS blocking, they should end up with the same number.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[PW2]

These cases were always reported in common places such as Newsweek -- but since there were no known related deaths, you didn't hear about it.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[Quikah]

Geez, that is more an attack on the US healthcare system and the current administration than a story on SARS. Not to mention it is basically wild speculation.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[AnimalCoward]

What information? The article states that "some people" are asking questions about the legitimacy of the SARs statistics in the US. Who's asking these questions? Article just expects one to take it at face value that the Canadian Health care system is better than the US and this is why these "people" are asking questions. What good does that do anybody? Doesn't tell anyone shit. You need to learn to be a more critical reader of so-called news. Just because a reporter from a non-big media outlet theorizes questions that are critical of the US doesn't give it more legitimacy. You and the other morons who mod'd this up to a 5.

Re:Censored information about SARS in the USA?

[Rimbo]

oh, God, this article is hilarious:

"This was all the more puzzling since it's widely acknowledged that the Canadian health care system is far superior to that of the US. While Canadians enjoy the benefits of universal health care, many Americans are without any form of health insurance whatsoever."

*falls out of chair laughing*

I'm sorry, I couldn't take anything in this article seriously after that. :)

Mod Parent Up Informative

[Michael's a Jerk!]

62 Dams in one night? What the heck happened?

I think its just terrible. China is worse then the Soviet Union used to be. Thankfully, in this age of information, news leaks quickly over international borders. The Firewall of China has Been hacked before, and It'll happen again.

Re:Mod Parent Up Informative

[iamdrscience]

62 Dams in one night? What the heck happened?

The river flooded because of prolonged heavy rains which would normally mean you would open up the gates on your dams to let more water flow through. However, the dams which broke had not been properly designed and maintained to deal with sedimentary build up along these gates so many of the gates could not open. All of these dams which broke were built around the same time as part of the same Chinese initiative to dam the Yangtze river for hydo-electric power so they were all designed similarly, all having the same flaws.

Re:Mod Parent Up Informative

[radish]

When was this? Recently? Got any links to more info? Seeing as they're in the middle of building one pretty big damn right now this is interesting stuff.

Re:Mod Parent Up Informative

[HiThere]

They're in the middle of building a lot more than one. The plan it to totally replumb the country, with water being shipped from the south (wet) to the north (dry).

Will it work? ??
Will it have side effects? Yes.
Will the side effects cost more than the dams+canals? ??

Who profits? ??

India is planning on the same thing (inspired by China). This may cause a war with Pakistan, as, if I recall correctly, some of the water they intend to take has normally flowed through Pakistan, and is a major water source for much of the population.

(Sorry, this is on the periphery of my attention, so many of the details are skimpy. Important? Yes. But I can't do anything about it, so I attend to other things. But check back through the past year's New Scientist and Science News. The sources were in some of their articles.)

Re:Mod Parent Up Informative

[Alsee]

Just say Google.

-

Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[jkrise]

Okay.., while we bash the draconian dragon that is China, let's stop a while and think of other 'informed' societies.

How many of the millions of car owners in the US knew that they had 'black boxes'.

How many of the 1,500 receipients of SCO's extortion letters registered a protest of any description?

How many are aware that MS is stifling a project named 'Schnazzle' - on questionalbe grounds?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesste ch nology/134994939_esiod14.html

How is it that Germany, Poland and Australia have protested and asked SCO to shut up, while the silence in the US is deafening?

Why is it that cellphones and cellphone tech is more advanced in China than in the US?

A free society does not gurantee fairness.
A (seemingly) unfair society does have benefits.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[spacefight]

Which "black boxes" exactly?

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/15/212224 0&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=158&tid= 99

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[chazzf]

If you actually read the article about Schnazzle, you'd know that the conflict arose because the creators of Schazzle are ex-Microsoft developers, and that their product had a likeness to aspects of Longhorn that made Microsoft accuse them of breaching the no-compete clauses in their contracts (which expire after a year anyway).

Is the silence deafening in the US with regards to SCO? Not from IBM or the tech community in general. Novell has spoken up as well.

You rant strikes me as illogical, at best. People are free to be informed, yes. Does Sally Housecook give a flying fuck over Unix copyright disputes? Does she want to be informed? No more than I would care about a copyright dispute in the sewing machine industry. The information exists if people want it. What you should really be worried about are people too apathetic or ignorant to exercise this right.

A free society does not gurantee fairness. A (seemingly) unfair society does have benefits.

Well, if you'd like a fair society with benefits, I recommend a Stalinist/Leninist regime, where everyone is guaranteed the impoverished welfare-state hellhole. Capitalist democracies provide equal opportunity, they do not guarantee fairness and I don't know where that idea got started.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Ioldanach]

How many of the millions of car owners in the US knew that they had 'black boxes'.

Which "black boxes" exactly?

These black boxes. The ones that keep a diary of the car's last moments to testify at court (for or against you, it doesn't matter). Most people aren't aware they have them, or that their car can be made to testify against them. They exist in most if not all vehicles that have airbags, which is nearly all cars made in the past decade or so.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[PhxBlue]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstech nology/134994939_esiod14.html

I had to find a Google Cache, as the government-owned proxy I work behind blocked access to the original article. I love the smell of irony in the morning!

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

A free society does not gurantee fairness.
A (seemingly) unfair society does have benefits.

Traitor

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[operagost]

How is it that Germany, Poland and Australia have protested and asked SCO to shut up, while the silence in the US is deafening?

Telling companies to "shut up" about their patent claims is good? I think that companies are entitled to protect their intellectual property. If their claim is false, then it should be rejected in the courts. Telling them to shut up is exactly what socialist countries do.

And everyone knows that cellphone tech is somewhat more advanced in China because 1) the government controls ALL MEANS OF PRODUCTION, which reduces incompatiblity issues, 2) their land-based phone structure is terrible and outdated, and 3) they have been so far behind technologically that they skipped the early cell technology and are implementing the latest, most robust systems. Because countries like the U.S. were early adopters (in fact, most of the tech was developed here), we're still saddled with some early digital and analog systems.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

thats bollex the reason chinas cell phones are so much better than the US's is the same reason that europes are basicly the world is on one phone system and america is in its own all the companys produce the best phones for the world systems cos there a biger market so can make more money and only bother to convert them to the US system once they outdated anyware else this meens china can import cheap advanced phones from europe or anyware else in the world where as america has to build there own or wait for the rest of the worlds hand me downs and chinas tech was not developed in the US they are on the GSM system that was made in france only the states uses the american made system and the american network is the technical equal of the GSM system however its hightly propriatory and you have to pay QUICOM money to use it the GSM is open and licence free also you can change networks without changing phones

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

how does yet another pussy lefty, trying to equate black boxes in cars with a country that runs protestors over with tanks and practices forced abortions, get modded +5? Answer - just another day on slashdot. I am always entertained by the dumb shits on this site and the lengths that the liberals will go to in order to bash the US. You people are hilarious.

Some country could be fucking eating children after they kidnap and molest them, and it is guaranteed that numerous highly modded comments on here would all say "yeah but the US listens to my thoughts with their secret technology and I heard they put an arab guy in jail yesterday." When you get a clue someday, probably never, you might realize that just because the US has problems and is a nice target for criticism, doesn't mean every neo-stalinist country on the planet is somehow made the good guy by not liking us.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Stigmata669]

Man, what the heck are you talking about!?

How many of the millions of car owners in the US knew that they had 'black boxes'.

Wait, we are not a free people if the last 5 seconds before a crash are recorded? Freedom is when you can say that you were going 35mph when you hit an old lady when you were actually going 50? It's unfair to have an unbiased 'witness' at a carcrash?

How many of the 1,500 receipients of SCO's extortion letters registered a protest of any description?

What does this have to do with freedom and fair practice? SCO has the right to try to protect IP that they think they own, and thus the right to write nasty letters. In turn we have the right to ignore their protests and go to court. That seems about as fair as it gets.

How many are aware that MS is stifling a project named 'Schnazzle' - on questionalbe grounds?

You got me on that one, but I doubt "Schnazzle" is a dangerous disease that is killing people so we don't seem quite so draconian as China, right?

How is it that Germany, Poland and Australia have protested and asked SCO to shut up, while the silence in the US is deafening?

This is because our government is more fair! Just cause you don't believe in SCO's case doesn't mean that they don't have the right to bring a case. Your logic that the US government lets anyone bring a case to court makes us a less free and less fair country is, well, questionable.

Why is it that cellphones and cellphone tech is more advanced in China than in the US?

Now man, you are just talking out of your ass! A, where is any proof of this, and B, how does more advanced technology mean that a government is more fair.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[profplump]

I knew my car had a black box (actually my car isn't that new, but go with me here). I'm all about my car having a black box. It's not even a safety vs. freedom thing. I fail to see how using an objective source to recreate an accident -- something that already warrants an investigation under current law -- is a bad thing. It's not like the cops are coming to check my black box every week to make sure I wasn't speeding. Like most people, I'd object to that. It's being used when there's already a valid investigation.

And what are you suggesting with you buzzword SCO statement? That because companies ignored some mail they got the US is hypocritical? I guess I'm too dense for that one. Or maybe it was just a setup for the next line about SCO, to help get us in the mood. Let's take a look at that one -- other governments sue SCO, while the US allows the people and businesses being injured to sue on their own. Man, I really hate it when the government lets me decide for myself whether I want to sue someone.

And finally there's the troll about cell phones. I don't know, could the disparity have something to do with the US already having sufficient mobile communications infastructure installed and running when the now-current system was invented? Are you seriously suggesting that we rip out old cell towers every time a new technology is invented? Do you really want to make cell service that expensive?

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

How many of the millions of car owners in the US knew that they had 'black boxes'.

There is a difference between corporate practices and government censorship. You know about the black boxes, dont you? Did the government try to block that information?

Americans often dont appreciate the level of freedom they have. There is an Indian saying :"Chicken made at home tastes like daal(curry)". the point being, some people dont value the good things they take for granted.

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Alsee]

How is it that Germany, Poland and Australia have protested and asked SCO to shut up, while the silence in the US is deafening?

That's not silence that's deafening you, it's laughter.

-

Re:Hypocrisy or Censorship - take your pick...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweet jesus, was that one giant run-on sentence? For love of god, man, learn to use periods, paragraphs, and occasionally to just shut the fuck up.

Re:This pussyfooting busines is making me sick

[DrunkEvilPenguin]

I seriously hope this is just flamebait because I hate to think that someone could be this ignorant. I don't have the time at the moment to answer all of your arguments, but there is one big one: You list as one of the reasons to go to war as 'it will help the economy'. Do you realise the selfishness and childishness of that? But then again, maybe all the steriotypes about americans are right: pushy, ignorant, childishly patriotic...

the Great Firewall of China being the most ...

[DrSkwid]

if it was such a cover up, how come *you* know about it.

It would be my guess that the most spectacular cover ups are the ones that get covered up not the ones that get uncovered.

Re:The immorality of Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

And IBM supplied counting machines to Nazi Germany. Welcome to the real world...

Makes sence...

[TheDredd]

from a government point of view, to prevent economic collapse because of widespread panic.

They will be wanting to keep there country afloat if this ever happens again.

BTW how many of you will be going to China on holliday this year?

Re:Slashdot Poll

[YomikoReadman]

you should really send polls to the poll person at slashdot. that way we could all vote on cowboyneal as our favorite cowboy.

Speech is free, speach is extra

[DrSkwid]

$5 please

Re:Speech is free, speach is extra

[HarryCallahan]

How about $10?

While it was Clinton that cozied up to China...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet the slashsheep bust on W for things the Chinese government does.

The anit-W/Ashcroft rants and conspiracy theories here are actually pretty funny sometimes. It wouldn't surprise me to see W and/or Ashcroft blamed for something like sunspots.

Re:While it was Clinton that cozied up to China...

[valkraider]

"cozied up to China" is MUCH different than taking our rights away and making the US government ACT like the Chinese government, all in the name of "homeland security".

Having good trade relations with the most populous nation in the world is a good thing. Eroding rights through USA actions like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act - and Son of P.A.T.R.I.O.T. acts - is scary.

"My civil liberties died in the 'War on Terrorism.'"

fire in a crowded theatre

[Anonymous Coward]

What I've always wanted to know is, can you yell "Movie" in a crowded fire station?

Re:Slopes

[IdleLay]

you!

here's now it's different

[Ender Ryan]

U.S. surveillance incident:

PERSON1: Hey, we're going to blow up the bridge tomorrow.
PERSON2: Excellent. Praise Allah, the infidels will die!
P1: LOL, we better STFU before the FBI think we're really terrorists :)
FBI: Come with me, you terrorist scum.
several weeks later...
P1: Yeah, let's not do that again...
P2: No shit.
PERSON3: DIE INFIDELS DIE! Wha? My shoe won't blow up!

Chinese surveillance incident:

PERSON1: Help, everyone is dying, we need to do something!
PERSON2: Don't go outside if you can avoid it, wear a mask if you do, and don't touch anyone. Since our government won't help us, we need to get help wherever we can.
CHINESE GOV'T: You two, come with me. You're never going to see the outside of a cell again, ever.

THE END

Re:here's now it's different

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, unless person1 or person2 is an immigrant; in which case, have fun in Cuba.

Re:here's now it's different

[loraksus]

------------------
Immigrant Special!
------------------
Here's what you have won!
- One of the finest cells in Brooklyn.
- None of the hassle of a trial!
- Weekly "Russian massages" from the guards!
- Free "Chinese Dentisty"!
- Well lit rooms - 24 hours a day!
- International (read bugs) cuisine!
- Monthly amusement rides! (i.e. leg iron pull!)
- Privacy (you know, from annoying people like your lawyer)
- No more telemarketer calls! (or any access to a phone for that matter)
- Guards who give you affectionate names - such as "sand nigger", "pull start", "slurpee nigger" and "camel fucker"
And finally, when the entire DOJ still isn't able to find something on you after 2 years - A FREE TRIP TO YOUR NATIVE COUNTRY (regardless if you're expected to be imprisoned the minute you land).

Look, I know that there is a difference, but for certain groups of people in the USA, it isn't "hold for 2 weeks and release", in fact, it can be down right nasty. Certain cops / law enforcement are racist white trash, and realistically, if you're in their hands, you might as well be OBL or some other known terrorist - in their minds you're just being held there while a case is being put together against you.

Anyways, enough ranting.

It is not effective

[r6144]

I'm in China using a Chinese free mail service. There isn't much spam (2/week), but 70% of which is about FaLunGong.

Re:It is not effective

[beebware]

FaLunGong? Is that the Chinese name for Viagra?

Re:It is not effective

[rifter]

You should forward it all to Junis.

Couple of things...

[techturtle]

First off, this is outrageous! Not like I haven't been made aware of China's repression tactics and such before, but it's still amazes me.

So, from the article:
But blanket censorship is reserved for extreme situations, and this fact reflects its long-standing dilemma: while it desperately wants to control the flow of news and opinion, especially dissent, it also wants an open, modern and efficient economy, including a state-of-the-art telecom and information infrastructure.

Wow! The statement that they're reserving censorship for 'extreme' situations is so bogus. Look at what they're doing! They're flat out trying to set up a fear driven filter system that would let them block a SINGLE WORD from entering ANY MEDIA source in the country! The idea that they could do this is amazing, and the fact that they're actually accomplishing it is even more so.

And as for an open economy, how the hell do you do that if the citizens can't participate? I suppose people get mind-numbed enough that even government driven mis-information is better than nothing, but at some point it becomes pointless doesn't it? The government will be forcing the economy down faster than it can grow.

Oh yeah, and... The authorities seem to have asked the websites to add the term Sars to the long list of banned words....

ASKED!?! PFFFFFFFT!

Don't get me wrong. Yes, I'm an American living in the U.S. No, I have no idea what it would take to actually run a country with such a huge population. But, I'm fairly certain this isn't going to help anyone and will eventually be the govt's down fall. I try not to be judgemental, but I just can't believe that this kind of stuff is for the good of the people.

And Boston

[SolemnDragon]

I'm giving up the option to mod in this conversation just to add to that... Here in Boston, the hoax was about Chinatown, and he Mayor finally had to go have lunch there just to shut people up. There was no covered up mini-epidemic swweeping across Chinatown. It was frightening, how even when the local health authorities talked about it as a hoax, people started taking subway lines that didn't run by it, if they could.

A lot of excellent restaurants got extra health inspections and red-tape harrassment for the first week- and then, after the hoax was demonstrated to be a hoax email alert that someone sent (probably a variant on your california one) they still faced weeks of harassment- at the hands of the general public. It's been a bad time in Boston for the gainfully employed, and they had it even worse for a time. I'm betting that there are an awful lot of small-regional economic crunches because of hoaxes like these. (this was before the public pan on smoking in Boston went through, so now they've just been hit again, while everyone adjusts.)

Is this (sars hoax) affecting other cities? (I'm sure that it is; i'm just curious which ones...)

Re:And Boston

[bla]

the same thing happened in philadelphia. our mayor took his whole entourage and went and had dinner in chinatown too, and after that, things more or less seemed to calm down, at least in the media.

although a few weeks ago, my husband (who is vietnamese) was approached by a black woman and told that she "didn't want to seem prejudiced, but it was [his] people who brought SARS over here." so i'm not entirely convinced things have backed off in public opinion.

Re:And Boston

[sunhou]

Ah, that solves one mystery I had been wondering about. I went to Boston for dim sum last month (I live up in Maine, and hadn't heard any rumors about SARS in Boston Chinatown). The place I go usually has at least 50 people waiting for tables, but last time I went, I was able to just walk right in, there was no one waiting. I've never seen the place so empty. I wondered where everyone was.

I went back again last weekend, and business was starting to pick up again, although still not nearly up to its usual levels.

Re:And Boston

[jnik]

Is this (sars hoax) affecting other cities? (I'm sure that it is; i'm just curious which ones...)
As of mid-April (when I was doing SARS research persuant to flying guests to Boston from Japan and Vancouver) most Chinatowns in the US had taken about a 50% hit in business. I think the CDC may have even issued a counter-advisory, and as you've mentioned many local governments tried to show the public it was just a hoax. Despite all that I still had a hard time getting people to go to Dim Sum...."it's only prudent!" (No, actually, it's racist).

China is like Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

News agencies are treating China like Iraq. That is, in Iraq, CNN and other international news organizations chose not to report stories about government atrocities. They wanted to skip the horrors so that they could continue to report from the country.

The same is happening in China. Various news agencies are not reporting actual news worthy events in China, as it would get them kicked out. There is a tremendous market in China. CNN would rather skip the truth than report what is actually happening.

The biggest human rights abuses occurr in China. Millions die in accidents there every year that you never hear about. Local communist organizations still kill people routinely.

Economic reforms have occurred in a vacuun. Without political reform, all of this investment and wealth will be for nothing. The leaders of China still believe they are communist. The local communist groups still kill people and oppress the rest. People are still disappeared for talking to reporters who want to report what is really going on.

China is a nation that murders its citizens. It denies the most basic of human rights. It is still ruled by incompetent men like Jiang Zimen. China is a disgrace to the world community.

I would use my real name, but I am afraid for my fiance's family, who still live in China.

Re:China is like Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

> China is a nation that murders its citizens.
death penalty anyone?
> It denies the most basic of human rights.
guantanamo anyone?
> It is still ruled by incompetent men like Jiang Zimen.
bush junior anyone?
> China is a disgrace to the world community.
usa anyone?

Re:China is like Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

Asshole. I can write to George Bush in America and tell him he is a jackass. If my father-in-law were to do so, he'd be disappeared.

Re:China is like Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

Jiang Zimen is even monitoring Slashdot!

Of course

[r6144]

Many sites allow sending SMS via the web. It is very simple to encrypt and base-64 encode the message with a script.

Well, with most cellphones here, one needs to type the encrypted message onto a computer to decrypt it. They aren't long, anyway.

Of course key exchanging has to be done using regular methods.

speling errors

[SolemnDragon]

...er, make that a public "ban" on smoking...

Sic the Cyber Patrol on those Chinese Spam Hosts

[Junior Samples]

How do I contact these Chinese CyberPolice?

I'd like to turn in some China based ISPs that are hosting American spammers which are spreading propaganda that is probably in conflict with one or more Chinese Government policies.

Most of my spam these days is coming from China. It would be nice if we could get the Chinese CyberPolice on their backs.

Re:Sic the Cyber Patrol on those Chinese Spam Host

[vegetablespork]

Try some of the below messages, sent to the contacts as listed in apnic.net. (I also send them in Chinese as translated by Altavista, but /dork won't let me post that here.) I figure one of two things can happen--the surveillance state apparatus wastes some time on unfounded messages, or a spam supporting admin in .cn gets a bullet in the head. A win-win situation if you ask me.

Your encrypted message has been received. The weapons you ordered for the "Free Tibet" and "Remember Tiananmen" forces in their fight against the Communist PRC are on their way through the agreed route. May your brave men prevail in the fight for freedom and the defeat of Communism.

Thank you so much for the beautiful picture of the Dalai Lama you sent me. I'm glad to hear that such formerly forbidden information can flow freely in the oppressive People's Republic of China without you being put up against a wall and shot! Congratulations!

In the wake of the recent Party Congress that has handed power to a new generation of corrupt politicians, I must congratulate you for your continued bravery in being a beacon of protest of the policies of the PRC. Your advocacy against the one-child policy, forced sale of blood by peasants, electronic pollution, and other evils of Chinese society is commendable. Particularly, risking your life to smuggle arms to Tibet makes your esteem in my eyes much the greater.

Not only freedom of expression

[doru]

As I get it, it is not (only) the outside world which needs to be aware of the famine threat, but the people themselves, who can put political pressure on the government.

Of course, in order to be able to do such a thing, they must enjoy a democratic society (which usually goes hand in hand with freedom of expression).

Although the SMS messages in China forced the government to acknowledge the problem, it is not likely that those in power can be overturned, should they fail to act to stop the epidemic, so their incentive to action is quite limited.

Here's a talk by Amartya Sen, check the paragraph on Political incentives, news media and democracy.

Re:Not only freedom of expression

[Anonymous Coward]

Not just putting pressure on the government, but being able to take the necessiary precautions on a personal level.

american contribution to human rights abuses ?

[lovecult]

I seem to remember from articles in the register a while ago that USA bussinesses were vital in the construction of the "great firewall" . I believe the project netted lotsa dough for cisco. This somewhat reminds me of the amreican support for nazi industry during ww2. Please understand, I'm not "yank bashing" - theres much I admire about the culture and people of the USA. But, as with any culture, there are shortfallings. So much for the traditional association between "free trade" and personal democratic freedom, though. Also - good to see a worthwhile article from my local rag.

Chinese repression isn't the whole story

[hussar]

Granted, having recently read Howard Rheingold's Smart Mobs: The Next Social Revolution (Here is the /. review), I am probably somewhat oversensitive to stories like this.

Be that as it may, what makes this interesting to me is not only China's response, but the fact that 120 million people were using SMS to discuss and act on a single issue. And, there are other examples of this as well, such as the toppling of the Philipine president, tactical organization of WTO protestors, and the organization of protesters against the war in Iraq.

Thinking on a broader scope, these all seem to me to be examples of self-organization in the complexity theory sense of the term, and it has the potential to be more important than email because:

- it can be done on a relatively inexpensive devise I can slip into a pocket.
- the user does not have to be "logged in" in the same way that one does in order to get email on a computer. (Yes, I am aware of the Blackberry, but it doesn't have the market share SMS-capable phones have.)
- it is nearly instantaneous. The user is told that a message has arrived, and does not have to periodically check an account.
- it doesn't have the language issues the web has because if people send SMS's to recipients in other countries, they will share a common language with the person to whom they have sent the message. The recipient is an intelligent translator who can retransmit the message in another language as necessary.

It would not surprise me to see global movements applying nearly instantaneous pressure on local governments in the not-too-distant future using SMS. With the increasing popularity of MMS and phones with built in cameras, we will even get pictures.

Remember the old BBSes?

[Shillo]

1'v h33rd dat g0v7's l15t3|\|1|\|g. Wh4ts 4ll di5 54r5 th1|\|g? 4nyw3y, l3t d3m c3n5or th15!

Although I suspect this might be tad more difficult with Chinese letters. ;)

--

Re:How is this censorship?

[mabhatter654]

Because there's smoke billowing out of the lobby broom closet, and instead of telling the patrons, they're scooting you out the door to shut you up while everyone else fries, while preveneting you from telling your girlfriend who's still in there! While at the same time telling people in the theater not to come out--everything is OK...No, those aren't firetrucks out front!

Attn. mods:

[StarKruzr]

The above is not Flamebait.

Although it's entertaining to mod something Troll, Flamebait, or Redundant and then repeatedly mod it Underrated. :)

China vs. the West

[operagost]

How the West handles a medical crisis:
1. A disease breaks out and spreads rapidly.
2. The news spreads across SMS, the internet, etc.
3. Authorities use the information gathered to avoid future epidemics.

How China handles a medical crisis
1. A disease breaks out and spreads rapidly.
2. The news spreads across SMS, the internet, etc.
3. Authorities use the information gathered to suppress communications so that future outbreaks can spread quietly and unchecked.

"And the steps the Chinese government..."

[JohnnySkidmarks]

"And the steps the Chinese government is taking to make sure it does not happen again." You gotta wonder if their Gov't will even let them send messages again. They (CH Gov) are the reason it spread to Canada. They knew months before the first case came here. I think we (G8 nations) should end all business with them untill they aknowledge the damage they have done to our economy and compensate all victims. They can't be allowed to let these things spread out of controll just so they look like "strong brother chairman" or whatever crap they are calling the "people's government" this week.

Scary Very Scary

[Plug1]

I was in Hong Kong in January and February when SARS was just starting. At the time the government was covering it up and the news reported it as a bird flu outbreak in Guangdong province. The really scary thing is that our entire time there no one knew the real threat this disease posed. I was allowed to enter the US and Canada no questions asked. Thankfully no one on the trip got sick, but this case shows that supression of information can have far reaching consequences. Had someone on our trip contracted the illness they could have possibly infected an entire college campus, with little information on what the disease was the result would have been a disaster. I hope this experience teaches the chinese gov't that information needs to be shared not hidden. Had they been honest SARS would have never spread as it did.

There's Always A Silver Lining

[fluppy88]

The article was pretty decent at explaining tactics that the gov't and chinese bbs moderators use, but it didn't really go into how the government was into blocking SMS messages; it also didn't mention how exciting SMS might be for the Chinese people.

SMS offers the Chinese a fast and simple way to exchange information. The government, unles it where to shut down the whole SMS system, would be hard pressed to censor SMS in realtime. And with the rate at which messages can be sent, the dissemination of information can happen amazingly fast.

Protests during 1989 were said to have been organized by fax machine technology. Future protests will be organized through SMS-style technology.

Bomb Anthrax Nuke Iraq Bomb Bomb

[Dachannien]

Its technology allows it, for example, to search the country's entire volume of email traffic for words such as "Falungong", or to monitor any individual's text messages.

Considering how susceptible Chinese computers have been in the past to e-mail worms, I bet I know what sort of messages the next big worm will send out....

Hypocracy, Censorship, or *Perspective*

[Have Blue]

How many of your "crises" have cost hundreds of lives around the world?

Communists == thought control == no freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the obvious reason China lied about the SARS outbreak for so long.

Cuba

[Ender Ryan]

Yeah yeah yeah, I am so fucking sick of people blathering about the prisoners being held in Guantanamo. Get a fucking clue about what's going on there first at least.

I recently spoke to a congressman's chief of staff who had just visited Guantanamo because said congressman was concerned about the situation there. After his visit he was satisfied.

The people being held there were members of Al Queda. Information they have obtained from the prisoners confirms this. They are not being tortured or held in poor conditions. There are people there observing the goings on all the time, so it would be difficult to perform any torture. In fact, their conditions are better than most prisons, and definately better than prisons in places other than USA and Europe.

Interrogations are done simply; prisoners are rewarded when they give information, otherwise they sit and do nothing for a full 24 hours. Several have not spoken since being detained there.

Yes, if you are an immigrant you will likely be held unfairly for a longer period of time than is acceptable; that is true. But to compare US policy regarding terror suspects to China is ludicrous.

The USA is far from being above criticism, but the comparisons some people make are simply insulting to those in truly dire situations.

Re:Cuba

[shadow0_0]

Who proved that they are terrorists? There are Australians held in Guantanamo, without charges, againist their will. How can Australian arrested outside America be held under U.S. power?

Brittle Regimes

[Tackhead]

> Why keep it a secret? No one's going to blame you for it, every country goes through this stuff all the time. Is Communism so fragile that a few extra-heavy-duty flu cases will destroy it?

As a matter of fact, yes, it is.

Authoritarian regimes are strong, but brittle. In an environment characterized by slow technological change, they can last indefinitely, because the tools used to control the proles change slowly enough that leaders can keep up with them.

Rapid technological change upsets that balance. Such change is typically driven by technology - witness the printing press, the rise of the "freethinkers", and the eventual topplings of the monarchies of Europe and Russia. (And the despots that took their place - Robespierre in France, Lenin in Russia, and so on.)

Authoritarian regimes typically rely on controlling the means of communication in order to maintain power. Technologically-driven change in the area of communications is one of the most threatening things an authoritarian regime.

If the Communist Party lies about SARS, then maybe... *gasp*, they lied about the day the dam broke in my village. I've gotta call my brother who was 1000 miles away with the army when it happened and ask him if the Party told him his village's dam was the only one that broke that night. And my cousin who works in Hong Kong now, I remember him laughing when I first told him it was only our dam, maybe now I know why he laughed. And my grandfather back in my old village who remembers the times before the Party.

When nobody believes the Party ("Pravda and Izvestia - There is no truth in Pravda, and there is no news in Izvestia"), the regime shatters.

> Seems like if a goverment wants to gain trust and credibility, they should flat-out tell the truth sometimes.

Any government's first duty is to perpetuate itself; "building trust and credibility" is a useful goal (from the government's point of view) only insofar as it enables the government to perpetuate itself and/or increase its power over its subjects.

Telling the truth through the various Party news outlets doesn't serve the goal of keeping the Party in power, because the forms of media that can be controlled aren't set up to deliver truth.

And the forms of media that can't be controlled... well, one day you're talking about SARS, and the next day you're talking about what life was like without the Party.

And that, if you're a Party official, is a fate far worse than the deaths of a few million of your subjects.

Re:So China has Echelon too?-DragonBall-[A...Z]

[Anonymous Coward]

"Once again China lags behind the west in technology. "

Uh hu. The same China who's Dragon chip, Slashdotters were talking about using when DRM discussions were going full force. Amazing how "ahead" their technology is when you need it for your purposes.

Ashcroft and Hatch

[bigbadbuccidaddy]

Lets trade them to China for a case of beer and some twinkies.

Re:Ashcroft and Hatch

[Anonymous Coward]

And the beer doesnt even have to be cold!

Nazis == thought control == no freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you right-wing asshole, You forgot something: Equal representation.

And China is post Communist what?

[GomezAdams]

This should be a warning to all the opologists who claim Communism is going out of power in China. Right. Like all their hiding from human rights abuse and central controlled economy, they will find a way to explain away this latest censorship and abuse. The Chinese Communist Party is still very much in charge and just as paranoid about change and free thinking as when Mao took over while killing 11 million of his disenting countrymen. The SARS incident just points this out as clear as ever. Remember the Red Army doesn't guard the borders to keep poeple out who are trying to enjoy the fruits of Communism.

whose technology

[Anonymous Coward]

I think an interesting question for the /. readership is determining who precisely provides the Chinese government with "it's [cutting edge] technology". It's not like the contral committee whipped up a few Perl scripts. Someone's making a mint selling the Chinese government the tools of oppression (please spare me the "dual use" or "any technology can be abused" arguments).

Re:whose technology

[Anonymous Coward]

Please spare me your ignore-ance of the "dual use" problem in formulating your comment!

True and false

[phorm]

I do know that the parent is a +1 funny, however...

Kazaa and the continual battle on the internet is more of a local problem (given the amount of /. users who seem to be N. American or otherwise in pan-European countries of similar law). I can, through lobbying politicians and/or fighting back in whichever way I can, do more about the local Kazaa problem than I can China's sometimes oft abuse of its own citizens.

This isn't to say we aren't affected by what happens in China, it's just that there's more we can do about the local issue.

Fight the battles you can win. And, it's hard to fight the war abroad when enemy tanks are rolling towards your hometown.
However, that's not to say that we don't have an impact. The more the US (supposed haven of free-speech and general freedom) and other countries are oppressed, the greater contribution to world oppression. As the world becomes more globalized, people in oppressed countries see more of what they could have, and will fight for it.

As geeks, we can still do things like building apps to circumvent the "Great Firewall fo China", or to increase global communication. Uniting the people of the world is what is going to make us all get along better - and while Kazaa isn't necessarily a big player in this, the laws aimed against it are targetting this ideal as a whole.

Wanna clarify that?

[Xeth]

And the steps the Chinese government is taking to make sure it does not happen again.

And Optimist might think they were talking about the outbreak here, not the messages.

Who speaks Chinese?

[Sven The Space Monke]

I thought that the language believed to be Chinese (in North American) was actually two different languages - Mandarin and Cantonese. Anyone here know for sure?

Either way, I think he was joking.

Re:Who speaks Chinese?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandarin and Cantonese are the same written language -- the difference lies in pronunciation.

Re:Who speaks Chinese?

[AdEbh]

Your correct that there are different "types" of "Chinese", Mandarin & Cantonese being the two most popular, however there are many others such as Shanghaiese & Taiwanese.

Normally they are referred to as dialects, however this is stretching the word a bit. A friend of mine who is a native French speaker has had a better time understanding Italian than someone else I know who is from Shanghai understanding her mother-in-law who is from near Hong Kong (although in the second case I not entirely sure that there is not another reason).

The interesting thing is that all these dialects share a common written language, based on Mandarin.

I call it

[Anonymous Coward]

A hotel.

Don't you know anything about what a real Gulag is like?

Re:Sic the Cyber Patrol on those Chinese Spam Host

[jefu]

I've been thinking about doing this - except that I was figuring on keeping all the major spam email addresses I've managed to collect and include those in a list in the email with the suggestion that they're sympathetic and that they should all get in touch with each other.

I haven't yet - but one more good spam attack and its likely.

Though I would add one twist. I'd encrypt the body of the message and add a single paragraph saying it was encrypted and giving the key - with some babble about how I was doing that for their protection and to keep the body of the message from triggering email scanner alarms. I'm quite sure that words like "encrypt" "rijndael" "AES" will pass through their scanners without being noticed.

I doubt it would end with bullets - I tend to figure that the internet censors and their gestapo friends are being well paid off to let the spam pass quickly.

Aren't we supposed to hate spammers?

[poity]

Likely, they were spammers out to profit on the uneducated populace. "..people of Guangdong province had begun to panic, pouring into stores and clearing out supplies of Western antibiotics, vinegar and Chinese herbal tea, all of which were rumoured to fend off a mysterious virus the world would come to know as Sars." Anyway, the article is dreadfully vague.

Trying to eliminate the P2P sharing of copyrighted

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to elminate the P2P "sharing" of copyrighted music/movies is not infringing on your f*cking free speech rights.

The parent you're replying to is absolutely correct, and you provide a stunningly crafted example of exactly what he's talking about.

Zork

[I7D]

Violators of Inquisition Curfew may be: intimidated, incarcerated, lascerated, and/or masticated if time permits, and the weather is fine. Further violaters of curfew will be totemized, which is unspeakably painful, and altogether irreversible, except for, in certain cases, including, but not limited to, those at the correctly played end of this game. Further violators of curfew will be threatened with smiting, and then smitten. Once smote, further smitation and subsequent resmitation will commence until the smitee is deemed sufficiently smit by the smiter. Enjoy your stay in occupied China. This message brought you by Frobozz electric. We are, of course, a few.

Re:And SF/Daly City

[Urox]

I was out having dim sum with a lot of my friends and I started sneezing.. allergy season. One of my friends made a joke that I must have sars and that maybe the restaurant would clear out so we'd get dim sum faster (the wait time was usually at least an hour or longer). I told her that only the non-Chinese people would be worried that I had sars because all the rest would be smart enough to know that it wasn't so there would be no decrease in wait time for us.

But wait!

[Anonymous Coward]

What if Chinese are headless slaves who don't care who's ruling as long as they got a big fat paycheck from their master? The chinese people deserve the current government. Most of them who hate censorship have already left the country so we can safely assume everybody who's still there are having a good time. I wonder when we'll stop worrying about other people's problem and start to love oppressive regime again.

Keep stories like Eden in mind

[srvivn21]

When you read stories about how we currently live.

We could have it a *lot* better.

Panic, Police? What's wrong with you?

[Erris]

in the San Gabriel Valley... someone began circulating an email stating that several cases had been found locally and named specific restaurants and markets that had been closed.

The first time I read it I thought it was a hoax, but then a friend who worked at a local hospital called me and told me they were distributing it as a general alert at the hospital.

I ended up going to the Police Department, scared, to find out.

What irony! Had you gone to the Police station in China, your friend who sent you the message would go to jail. No problem for you, eh? Had you bothered to pick up the phone and CALL those supposedly closed places, you would have discovered the hoax.

Because your post makes so little sense, I suspect it's a hoax. Can you point to a news article from an orgainization that might, gasp, check their facts? If China wanted to combat such rumors, they would have a free press instead of trying to scare people into silence about dead relatives and co-workers.

The news here is, "SMS causes Party embarassment, Purge at 11." They lied and got busted when they could not refute the truth. They will purge a few people they don't like already to keep everyone from feeling rightous. More uglyness from a represive place. Please don't compare it to the US, where news agencies jumped on the epedimic before it arived and people are still free to say whatever they want and so be caught in their lie.

Precisely!

[Anonymous Coward]

So they like to machete people to death in Rwanda, who are we to critisise, it's how they do things there.

Also followed by "Closed trial hijinks in Saudi Arabia" and "Killing fields, schmilling fields", a comedy drama set in 1970s Cambodia.

Precisely! Either you let other people run their lives, and their countries, they way they want, or you don't.

If you export (tell people about) your culture, your values, that's Globalism: disrespect for other cultures and values.

If you actively push your culture or values on other people, that's Imperialism: the destruction of other cultures and values.

The only honest choices you can make are either to work and trade with other people in a way that respects their way of doing things (which is called engagement, or supporting the ruling classes), or not to work with or trade with them at all (which is called sanctions, or hurting the poor, starving innocent women and children civilians).

NO

[geekoid]

its prudent.
How is not going someplace because you heard there was a plague breakout racisit? I'm not racist, but if I heard there was a SARS out break anyplace, I would not go there. Once it was comfirmed to be a hoax, I would return.

The fact that people are returning proves that they are not racist. Hell, the fact they ever went there proves there not racist(or why would they go there in the first place?)

It would be racist if they had heard the same rumor in 'little italy' and still went there.

This kind of behaviour goes back a long way. I would even argue it has a genetic basis. People who wern't prudent about plagues often die.
This behaviour is one that has allowed the human race to continue.

Making sure it doesn't happen again

[andy1307]

And the steps the Chinese government is taking to make sure it does not happen again.

My first thought on reading this was: The Chinese government is going to take steps to stop the spread of diseases.

Fine...

[Stonan]

China can run its country any way they want to BUT when it comes to things like disease that can affect other countries, it is extremely pompous and assinine to keep it quiet.

China is part of the world no matter what the 'view' of its government. Maybe I'm biased because I'm Canadian but due to their governments 'conspiracy of silence' Canadians have died. I see no difference between this and biological warfare. That may be a little strong but people are prosecuted for negligence and I feel this is a perfect example.

Mod Parent Up

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod Parent Up.

The POV reality distortion field.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The military is also worthy of attention, having deliberately killed several independant journalists"

Thank you Mr Informative for proving a simple truth. Few are truely impartial, and most have an agenda[1].

The pro-war side has their agenda, and the anti-war side has theirs. Somewere between those two self-servient groups is the truth, and one can't count on the ends to be an accurate measure of were the middle lies.

[1] The "issue" has already been hashed out elsewere by those who don't have strong leanings either way.

Its their country, their rules

[nurb432]

While *I* may personally be appalled because I live in a country with relative freedom, it is their country. Its not *MY* right to tell them how to run it.

This is just an attempt to reduce hysteria....

[cameronk]

This type of action is being taken by the government to calm hysteria. In south China you have a bizarre interface of uneducated people and modern technology. Rumors spread quickly and frequently lead to bizarre shortages. For example, there was a run on cigarettes after a story circulated that the smoke would protect people from SARS.
Like most everyone else on Slashdot, I have moral issues with the heavy handed nature of the Chinese government. At the same time, quite frankly, I feel more worried about the hidden cameras in the United Kingdom and the TIA in the US. For most people in China, the biggest problems associated with the censorship are related to very slow Internet connections and bizarre blocking of websites. (Sometimes Hotmail, Google, Yahoo, etc. are blocked, sometimes they are not) SMS became very popular among the upper middle class of China specifically because it was not as heavily censoredâ¦but SARS has perhaps proven to the government that their society is not ready for such open communication. The Peopleâ(TM)s government will have to continue to decrease the amount of surveillance within China because the costs of doing so are increasing rapidly, while the benefits decrease. Sure, it is disappointing that the entire world cannot be as free as, say, New Zealand, but hey, we Americans have work to do too.

Re:Panic, Police? What's wrong with you?

[crazyhorse44]

point is I *DID* call these places... but of course they denied it. not like they would put a big sign out front saying WE HAVE SARS. my first call to the Police Department yielded no information... and apparently the scare was big enough to cause a general alert at San Gabriel Valley Medical Center.

now before you get off berating me... let me make it clear that THERE WERE CONFIRMED CASES OF SARS IN THE SAN GABRIEL VALLEY. and yes... the person who originally sent the email belongs in prison. hell I'll help pay for their ticket back to China, so they can be shot and have their organs harvested.

Please tell me where you saw the word "panic" in my post? I was scared... as was about 99% of my Chinese neighborhood... and rightfully so. There were no reports from local newspapers, in fact they never reported the SARS cases in the area... I found out from my same friend who stated that an entire floor of their hospital had been quarantined because of a CDC-CONFIRMED SARS case.

You get a case of SARS two blocks from your house and see how calm you are. I oughta slap you in the face, you idiot.

Re:And SF/Daly City

[sunhou]

According to a Chinese friend of mine in Boston, even many Chinese people are worried about SARS in Boston Chinatown, and thus avoiding the area somewhat, which surprised me. (Unfortunately, I wasn't terribly shocked when I heard that some Americans were avoiding Chinese restaurants in general because of fear of SARS.)

I have to admit, I was scheduled to spend about 6 weeks in China myself from May-July, but cancelled because of SARS. Not really out of fear of getting sick, but more out of concern about being stuck in my hotel for most of the trip, since universities are being pretty strict about who can enter and leave campus; and even some parks have closed. Most of my co-workers seemed more concerned about the possibility that I'd be quarantined for a while upon returning to the US. Personally, that wouldn't bother me so much. :-) Heck, I practically quarantined myself for a pretty good stretch of time while finishing up my PhD dissertation.

Re:And SF/Daly City

[Urox]

Well, I certainly wouldn't go to China while this outbreak is still happening. The main reason is that I am concerned is that the government has been seen to censor what cases actually exist. The second is that there are actual reported cases as well as people breaking quarantine. I haven't heard any actual cases in the bay area (only suspected cases) so I haven't been worried here. A lot of my co-workers have been returning from trips, but I trust that they are monitoring their own health.

I've delayed trips to Asia in general just because I am not familiar enough with how the situation is being handled on the other side of the pond. It's better to know what you're going to have to deal with before going :)

Companies

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know the companies that are providing the filters used to search SMS messages in China? Are they developed there, or by countries outside? Would it be considered legal by Western countries to ship such software, or would there be any laws against it?