I've had people call me a nigger, to my face. Usually it's white people who've come to my defense when it's happened.
Our home grown, specially brewed, hand crafted racists can often be pieces of work, but all to often they're just pieces of shit.
Intelligent and rational don't mean the same thing. Consider Hitler for example, by any measure the man was a sociopath, his irrational hatred of the Jews is the supreme example of this, but the mad had to be a genuis to take the broken nation of Germany and make it an industrial and military power.
>>Hmm. Maybe I just fell for a troll. You don't actually believe that, do you? Having every member of society including adolescents and other pre adults be constantly armed with lethal range weapons?
This is not a troll. ALL law abiding adults should be armed at all times.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, it's not only out right but our duty.
>>Yeah, just like those guys who just shot up that school in Denver. Funny how that never happens in Canada. The US government should die, those hot-dog eating bastards. You guys should revolt! Oh, wait a minute. You're all allowed to own guns and would probably end up annihaliting each other. Ah well, fuck it. You're screwed.
Shit happens. Sometimes bad shit happens for no good reason. Those kids also had pipe bombs, I guess it's a good thing that we made pipe bombs illegal huh? Oh, wait a minute people will still do illegal things if they want to? (Insert Sarchasm) If people would just follow the law we wouldn't have to make any more laws! (Remove)
I and most other Americans would prefer to live with a greater threat of violence in our everyday lives than live as government subjects like out northern neighbors.
>>There's plenty of room to the north of you.
Trees, Snow, Bacon and Molson great points in the Canadian Travel Ministry's tourist manual.
If it was available in english, I would recommend Henri Laborit's "La Nouvelle Grille" which basically superseeds what I read of the review. I'm actually even thinking to myself whether Pinker translated it and adapted it to his words. Even the part about aggressiveness being part of human nature has been said by Laborit. The stuff pretty much resembles Laborit's claims, except that Laborit wrote his book in 1973. Not only does he make the "radical claim" of how much biology influences our actions, he even goes so far as saying that it dictates our actions and that, in fact, we don't really have any "freedom" in our choices more than an electron has of turning around a nucleus. If you really want to learn about the brain and how it influences social behavior, etc. you probably should start by learning french:)
So you don't like the AOL influence, or you don't like that Netscape always had a little too much influence on the proceedure. Take the source, start up a freemozilla.org site, and bypass AOL entirely. -- Brad Felmey
Yes, I know. And I'm attacking those premises since they give rise to false conclusions.
For instance, where does the mind store these pictures, if not in the "massively overrated" brain? The liver? How does a purely "spiritual" (undefined term, BTW) interact with the physical "control center" in order for you to move your arm? Etc.
I didn't realize anyone besides Searle actually still clung to that argument.
You should read some of Hofstadter's (or even Pinker's) material regarding The Chinese Room--I think you'll find that in order for Searle to be as wrong as he is, he'd almost have to be trying to deliberately mislead people.
The basic counter-argument is: The whole analogy is false since it presupposes a homunculus in my brain that does the understanding "for me". I think it should already be obvious that "understanding" is not the function of some part of the brain, but a whole brain function. Thus, mapping back to the Chinese Room we might be able to say that the entire system (man, books, paper, pencils, door, etc) does in fact "understand" Chinese.
Of course, the many many concommittant "implementation" problems of Searle's formulation make this a difficult proposition at best. For instance, just how big would The Chinese Room have to be? And how long would it take the man inside to craft a response?
BTW, neither Dennett nor I am a "functionalist" if by that you mean "operationalist".
Pinker comes from that Chomskyite school where everyone is willing to pontificate/argue about anything -- provided they can avoid getting pinned down on a testable hypothesis.
On the contrary, even HTMW (a non-academic setting) contains a number of testable (and tested) hypotheses. For instance, check out the section on rotating figures.
We don't really know how the mind works, but we do know enough to say that easy answers are wrong answers.
I'd say that if a dense book like HTMW can only provide a cursory overview of a theory, it must not be supplying the "easy" answers.
1) I also highly recommend his "The Language Instinct".
2) Someone below asked if HTMW can explain Columbine. As a matter of fact, there is a section on emotion from the perspective of game theoretic strategies that covers things very much like this.
"Mind's I", which I've read more than once, is a good introduction to the subject. It has some good thought experiments and essays that point out the issues but don't come to any conclusions.
"How the Mind Works" goes into a great deal of cognitive detail and is excellent as a technical background.
"Consciousness Explained" is one good attempt at pulling everything together.
I posted the following comment to SCO using their website feedback form at http://www.sco.com/feedback/index.html.
Regarding your CEO's comments about Red Hat, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Red Hat has devoted many hours to developing the Redhat Package Manager (RPM) which most of the other Linux Distributions use, free of charge. Red Hat also devoted many hours to developing Gnome, what is quickly becoming the nicest looking and easiest to use Desktop for Linux. In addition, as with most Linux distro's, anybody can download Red Hat Linux for free from many different FTP mirror sites. Anybody who pays Red Hat for a cd of Linux (which I intend to do with Red Hat 6.0) is choosing to support this company for all the great work they've done in helping to make Linux as good and as accessible as it is. This is a loyalty base any company would love to have, including yours. You could learn something from Red Hat instead of slamming them in the news.
My girlfriend left me for a redhat employee with a fancy car and lucrative stock options! RedHat is trying to destroy the OS community by stealing our women and leaving us without heirs!
I say we hit them where they live. We must inject sterility drugs into the redhat software development complexes, those monolithic towers which will surpass their cousins in redmont all too soon.
RedHat has done nothing wrong so far. Some people are just paranoid about the greed of others. They see RedHat becoming quite successful and wonder if they are going to try (i'm not saying it's even possible) to manipulate the Linux community in harmful or even just distasteful ways. I really think though that some of the other distro's would be in more of a position to do this if they were as popular as RedHat considering the proprietary tools in some of these other distro's.
As for the files being in the wrong places, I don't really think it would be that hard to make other distro's compatible with RedHat by using symlinks.
I have personally tried several different distro's... Debian, RedHat, Suse, and Slackware. I like RedHat best not just because it's most popular or because Linus uses it, I like the handy GPL'ed graphical tools and these make it easier for me to do common tasks quickly (which I suspect is probably the reason Linus uses RH ). If I find that somehow RedHat is doing something harmful or distasteful I will drop it that very day and install Debian.
Why do so many of us dislike Red Hat? We're snobs, that's why. We pride ourselves on using an "alternative" Operating System. Now that Linux is starting to be used by Joe User, we are losing that special feeling that we get by being part of an exclusive group. You hear the same thing when an underground music group suddenly gets popular. People running for the doors screaming "SELL OUT".
Red Hat is largely responsible for the current popularity and press coverage of Linux. Red Hat has the corporate structure that makes other companies feel safe when handing over million dollar checks. Bottom Line is, Red Hat is working VERY hard at making Linux a mainstream, full service OS. Red Hat is doing a very good job of it too. It's no suprise that there is resentment from people as Linux grows in popularity. Us Linux users prefer to live out on the fringe. Now we are losing that frontier feeling, and some of us aren't happy about it.
Does anybody have a mirror to the 640x480 Star Wars trailer, so I can download it and play it later rather than load it thru a plugin?
Thanks.
just when you thought everything coexisted happily
on
Red Hat 6.0
·
· Score: 1
Posted by GhostX:
I use AfterStep. Small footprint. Why do I want KDE and Gnome - with the latest RH? Because of the programs - not the window manager. You need the libraries to run the programs.
So, some are saying we have a "VCR with Beta and VHS", but that is not all - we have, using the same analogy, a VCR with DVD and cable and satellite... and 8mm and 30mm...
Redhat 6.0 - Why not include SSH 1.2.26?
on
Red Hat 6.0
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· Score: 1
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but does anyone know why Redhat isn't including SSH in their distribution?
After all, most people these days use SSH on their systems, at least that I know of. Personally, I use it on my system.
Just comment out ONE line in config.h
on
Red Hat 6.0
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· Score: 1
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I had problems compiling SSH 1.2.26 under Redhat 5.9.7.
The solution is to comment out the line that contains "#define HAVE_UTMPX_H" in config.h.
I'm not sure though if this will make ssh not write to the wtmp correctly or not...
Hopefully Redhat will just INCLUDE SSH in Redhat 6.0.
Redhat 5.9.7 running great here...
on
Red Hat 6.0
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· Score: 1
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I installed the original Starbuck release and had major problems with DHCP, and with RPM and a couple other things.
Redhat released a new starbuck a week ago and I installed it and it runs great, not a single problem to report.
I predict Redhat 6.0 to be a revolution for Linux. This release is going to put Linux into the mainstream, mostly due to its good hardware support with the new 2.2 kernel and with GNOME, which I love.
i thought it was all great fun. remember Linus said it was all tongue in cheek. anyhow i'd didn't see any rudeness alluded to earlier nor did i feel there was excessive microsoft (gates) bashing. i thought Linus's humor was rather self effacing.
ps i looked for Rob but didn't see anyone with wooden shoes.
golden oldie, to be rediscovered every 4 months or so, . . .
Guess what - - - intellectuals/dummies/programmers and even regular people experiment, sometimes it is not good for them.
I did my experimenting, life in the fast lane, after 4 years at the UofM - A2, then as a COBOL programmer for the AF in Berlin, Germany 20 years ago.
Freud did Cocaine, there is an impressive amount of research going on into native peoples and shamanism. Drug use / lifestyles outside the norms / age groups and rebellion / too much money at too young an age ? I don't think there is anything really new in any of this - or does someone else see something I missed?
A2, we used to ask is it real or chemical (The joke is mushrooms were just as chemical as the LSD, but were grown in manure rather than local labs). Now, we can probably expand those categories by real/chemical/electronic - soooo - basic parameters and reactions stay about the same.
There are other experiences out there - some will experiment. Some will try to control.
It has been just as interesting and rewarding as an oldster, who survived and fortunately wasn't caught or punished (except by my own mind and body), to explore 'recovery' on the web ! Never found a drug I could do socially other than chocolate - ah well - the addictive personality - is that why I'm here ?
Now, if I could just stay off the nicotine and relax my cramped back . . .
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
Cartoonish it may be, but it still happens.
I've had people call me a nigger, to my face. Usually it's white people who've come to my defense when it's happened.
Our home grown, specially brewed, hand crafted racists can often be pieces of work, but all to often they're just pieces of shit.
Intelligent and rational don't mean the same thing.
Consider Hitler for example, by any measure the man was a sociopath, his irrational hatred of the Jews is the supreme example of this, but the mad had to be a genuis to take the broken nation of Germany and make it an industrial and military power.
LK
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
It is so slow you'll eat up more cpu sending the data than actually decoding it on board.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>Hmm. Maybe I just fell for a troll. You don't actually believe that, do you? Having every member of society including adolescents and other pre adults be constantly armed with lethal range weapons?
This is not a troll. ALL law abiding adults should be armed at all times.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, it's not only out right but our duty.
LK
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>Yeah, just like those guys who just shot up that school in Denver. Funny how that never happens in Canada. The US government should die, those hot-dog eating bastards. You guys should revolt! Oh, wait a minute. You're all allowed to own guns and would probably end up annihaliting each other. Ah well, fuck it. You're screwed.
Shit happens. Sometimes bad shit happens for no good reason. Those kids also had pipe bombs, I guess it's a good thing that we made pipe bombs illegal huh? Oh, wait a minute people will still do illegal things if they want to? (Insert Sarchasm) If people would just follow the law we wouldn't have to make any more laws! (Remove)
I and most other Americans would prefer to live with a greater threat of violence in our everyday lives than live as government subjects like out northern neighbors.
>>There's plenty of room to the north of you.
Trees, Snow, Bacon and Molson great points in the Canadian Travel Ministry's tourist manual.
LK
Posted by Karym:
:)
If it was available in english, I would recommend Henri Laborit's "La Nouvelle Grille" which basically superseeds what I read of the review. I'm actually even thinking to myself whether Pinker translated it and adapted it to his words. Even the part about aggressiveness being part of human nature has been said by Laborit. The stuff pretty much resembles Laborit's claims, except that Laborit wrote his book in 1973. Not only does he make the "radical claim" of how much biology influences our actions, he even goes so far as saying that it dictates our actions and that, in fact, we don't really have any "freedom" in our choices more than an electron has of turning around a nucleus. If you really want to learn about the brain and how it influences social behavior, etc. you probably should start by learning french
Posted by BradF:
So you don't like the AOL influence, or you don't like that Netscape always had a little too much influence on the proceedure. Take the source, start up a freemozilla.org site, and bypass AOL entirely.
--
Brad Felmey
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Those are the givens I opened this thread on.
Yes, I know. And I'm attacking those premises since they give rise to false conclusions.
For instance, where does the mind store these pictures, if not in the "massively overrated" brain? The liver? How does a purely "spiritual" (undefined term, BTW) interact with the physical "control center" in order for you to move your arm? Etc.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I didn't realize anyone besides Searle actually still clung to that argument.
You should read some of Hofstadter's (or even Pinker's) material regarding The Chinese Room--I think you'll find that in order for Searle to be as wrong as he is, he'd almost have to be trying to deliberately mislead people.
The basic counter-argument is: The whole analogy is false since it presupposes a homunculus in my brain that does the understanding "for me". I think it should already be obvious that "understanding" is not the function of some part of the brain, but a whole brain function. Thus, mapping back to the Chinese Room we might be able to say that the entire system (man, books, paper, pencils, door, etc) does in fact "understand" Chinese.
Of course, the many many concommittant "implementation" problems of Searle's formulation make this a difficult proposition at best. For instance, just how big would The Chinese Room have to be? And how long would it take the man inside to craft a response?
BTW, neither Dennett nor I am a "functionalist" if by that you mean "operationalist".
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I suggest you read "Consciousness Explained" by Dennett for an excellent debunking of Cartesian dualism (especially the modern, silent variety).
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Pinker comes from that Chomskyite school where everyone is willing to pontificate/argue about anything -- provided they can avoid getting pinned down on a testable hypothesis.
On the contrary, even HTMW (a non-academic setting) contains a number of testable (and tested) hypotheses. For instance, check out the section on rotating figures.
We don't really know how the mind works, but we do know enough to say that easy answers are wrong answers.
I'd say that if a dense book like HTMW can only provide a cursory overview of a theory, it must not be supplying the "easy" answers.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
1) I also highly recommend his "The Language Instinct".
2) Someone below asked if HTMW can explain Columbine. As a matter of fact, there is a section on emotion from the perspective of game theoretic strategies that covers things very much like this.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
"Mind's I", which I've read more than once, is a good introduction to the subject. It has some good thought experiments and essays that point out the issues but don't come to any conclusions.
"How the Mind Works" goes into a great deal of cognitive detail and is excellent as a technical background.
"Consciousness Explained" is one good attempt at pulling everything together.
Posted by Just Another Perl Slacker:
I posted the following comment to SCO using their website feedback form at http://www.sco.com/feedback/index.html.
Regarding your CEO's comments about Red Hat, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Red Hat has devoted many hours to developing the Redhat Package Manager (RPM) which most of the other Linux Distributions use, free of charge. Red Hat also devoted many hours to developing Gnome, what is quickly becoming the nicest looking and easiest to use Desktop for Linux. In addition, as with most Linux distro's, anybody can download Red Hat Linux for free from many different FTP mirror sites. Anybody who pays Red Hat for a cd of Linux (which I intend to do with Red Hat 6.0) is choosing to support this company for all the great work they've done in helping to make Linux as good and as accessible as it is. This is a loyalty base any company would love to have, including yours. You could learn something from Red Hat instead of slamming them in the news.
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
My girlfriend left me for a redhat employee with a fancy car and lucrative stock options! RedHat is trying to destroy the OS community by stealing our women and leaving us without heirs!
I say we hit them where they live. We must inject sterility drugs into the redhat software development complexes, those monolithic towers which will surpass their cousins in redmont all too soon.
Posted by Open Matrix:
RedHat has done nothing wrong so far. Some people are just paranoid about the greed of others. They see RedHat becoming quite successful and wonder if they are going to try (i'm not saying it's even possible) to manipulate the Linux community in harmful or even just distasteful ways. I really think though that some of the other distro's would be in more of a position to do this if they were as popular as RedHat considering the proprietary tools in some of these other distro's.
As for the files being in the wrong places, I don't really think it would be that hard to make other distro's compatible with RedHat by using symlinks.
I have personally tried several different distro's... Debian, RedHat, Suse, and Slackware. I like RedHat best not just because it's most popular or because Linus uses it, I like the handy GPL'ed graphical tools and these make it easier for me to do common tasks quickly (which I suspect is probably the reason Linus uses RH ). If I find that somehow RedHat is doing something harmful or distasteful I will drop it that very day and install Debian.
Posted by LOTHAR, of the Hill People:
Why do so many of us dislike Red Hat? We're snobs, that's why. We pride ourselves on using an "alternative" Operating System. Now that Linux is starting to be used by Joe User, we are losing that special feeling that we get by being part of an exclusive group. You hear the same thing when an underground music group suddenly gets popular. People running for the doors screaming "SELL OUT".
Red Hat is largely responsible for the current popularity and press coverage of Linux. Red Hat has the corporate structure that makes other companies feel safe when handing over million dollar checks. Bottom Line is, Red Hat is working VERY hard at making Linux a mainstream, full service OS. Red Hat is doing a very good job of it too. It's no suprise that there is resentment from people as Linux grows in popularity. Us Linux users prefer to live out on the fringe. Now we are losing that frontier feeling, and some of us aren't happy about it.
We have to blame someone, right?
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
When your focus is on making money rather than conveying reasoned news stories, this kind of thing happens a lot.
Posted by Ydeologi:
Does anybody have a mirror to the 640x480 Star Wars trailer, so I can download it and play it later rather than load it thru a plugin?
Thanks.
Posted by GhostX:
I use AfterStep. Small footprint. Why do I want KDE and Gnome - with the latest RH? Because of the programs - not the window manager. You need the libraries to run the programs.
So, some are saying we have a "VCR with Beta and VHS", but that is not all - we have, using the same analogy, a VCR with DVD and cable and satellite... and 8mm and 30mm...
Posted by Forward The Light Brigade:
someone from ssh emailed me rpms for ssh 1.2.26 for glibc2.1
if you want them, they are mirrored on my comp...
ftp://sparky.student.umd.edu/ssh.glibc2.1.rpms/
get everything
[root@sparky ssh.glibc2.1.rpms]# pwd
/home/ftp/ssh.glibc2.1.rpms
[root@sparky ssh.glibc2.1.rpms]# ls -l
total 527
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 172584 Apr 18 14:25 ssh-1.2.26-1us.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 222679 Apr 18 14:25 ssh-clients-1.2.26-1us.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 21921 Apr 18 14:25 ssh-extras-1.2.26-1us.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116085 Apr 18 14:25 ssh-server-1.2.26-1us.i386.rpm
[root@sparky ssh.glibc2.1.rpms]#
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but does anyone know why Redhat isn't including SSH in their distribution?
After all, most people these days use SSH on their systems, at least that I know of. Personally, I use it on my system.
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I had problems compiling SSH 1.2.26 under Redhat 5.9.7.
The solution is to comment out the line that contains "#define HAVE_UTMPX_H" in config.h.
I'm not sure though if this will make ssh not write to the wtmp correctly or not...
Hopefully Redhat will just INCLUDE SSH in Redhat 6.0.
Posted by DiegoGuy:
I installed the original Starbuck release and had major problems with DHCP, and with RPM and a couple other things.
Redhat released a new starbuck a week ago and I installed it and it runs great, not a single problem to report.
I predict Redhat 6.0 to be a revolution for Linux. This release is going to put Linux into the mainstream, mostly due to its good hardware support with the new 2.2 kernel and with GNOME, which I love.
Posted by Briney:
i thought it was all great fun. remember Linus said it was all tongue in cheek. anyhow i'd didn't see any rudeness alluded to earlier nor did i feel there was excessive microsoft (gates) bashing. i thought Linus's humor was rather self effacing.
ps i looked for Rob but didn't see anyone with wooden shoes.
b.
Posted by mhmbear:
golden oldie, to be rediscovered every 4 months or so, . . .
Guess what - - - intellectuals/dummies/programmers and even regular people experiment, sometimes it is not good for them.
I did my experimenting, life in the fast lane, after 4 years at the UofM - A2, then as a COBOL programmer for the AF in Berlin, Germany 20 years ago.
Freud did Cocaine, there is an impressive amount of research going on into native peoples and shamanism. Drug use / lifestyles outside the norms / age groups and rebellion / too much money at too young an age ? I don't think there is anything really new in any of this - or does someone else see something I missed?
A2, we used to ask is it real or chemical (The joke is mushrooms were just as chemical as the LSD, but were grown in manure rather than local labs). Now, we can probably expand
those categories by real/chemical/electronic - soooo - basic parameters and reactions stay about the same.
There are other experiences out there - some will experiment. Some will try to control.
It has been just as interesting and rewarding as an oldster, who survived and fortunately wasn't caught or punished (except by my own mind and body), to explore 'recovery' on the web ! Never found a drug I could do socially other than chocolate - ah well - the addictive personality - is that why I'm here ?
Now, if I could just stay off the nicotine and relax my cramped back . . .