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Drug Use Among Programmers
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story that talks about
Drug use amongst programmers.
The article talks about the high tech industry, stress, and
stimulants (the big ones like Cocaine and Crack, not the
wussy stuff like caffeine :)
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True story...
I once tried to find a bug for about 2 hours, and couldn't. Oddly enough when I was stoned I spotted it in about 30 seconds. I wouldn't recomend programming while stoned though, I find it quite difficult. Amphetamines on the other hand are quite useful... There are those who will argue that drugs are for weak minds.. perhaps they are right.. but what about caffeine? I think certain drugs do have their benefits, when used in moderation.
. . . and I never will hire a programmer who doesn't show up at the interview at least mildly baked. I do, after all, have standards.
I am the VP of MIS for a large multinational corporation, and we have an obligation to our shareholders and to our customers to hang loose. I take that obligation very seriously, and so do my programmers.
Excuse me. I must go now. Pizza time.
No match.
heh
In my experience its always the IT/Network admins who do drugs. Think about it. Many times its high stress, while at other times its mind numbingly boring. Idiot end users asking you stupid questions. A lot of IT people smoke herb.
Casual sex?
A God-shaped bong?
A classic, in fact.
Where do we send the resumes?
Only one thing can fill that hole.
Yeah, a cock the size of a fucking salami.
Most drug use I've noticed among programmers/IT tends to fall into two groups. You have the hippy types, which smoke a lot of herb, do shrooms and acid. Then occasionally you have hardcore raver-hacker types who do LSD, E, Amphetamines. I would say IT people in general go for pot/alcohol where as programmers who need to concentrate would favor aphetamines and perhaps LSD.
-AC
I have to agree with you. Oddly enough, I seem to make a lot errors programming while baked, mostly typos. But debugging seems a lot easier when stoned.
I once made a lot of changes at once (while not stoned) and spent the next two weeks hunting a bug that, after smoking, took only fifteen minutes to find and fix. It had to do with resource locking in a multi-process program, something I'm not used to doing.
Does weed make you smarter? No, it just put you in the same frame of mind as the creators of most OSs and langauges (except anything designed in committee like VB).
The only "REAL" Drugs for nerds are :
1) Civilization
2) Quake *
3) Perl
4) Alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.*
=[*]= P.U.R.G.E =[*]=
Nothing helps you stay sharp as a little crystal. If you have a looming deadline and need to stay up and sharp, only that can save you.
Coffee, caffeine-derived products, ephedrine is all useless, since your mind becomes numb after a short while and it stops mattering whether you're physically up. Coke keeps you up, but makes your mind wander, which doesn't help. Plus, the prices are outrageous.
And weed? What can I say, this ain't high school anymore, Toto.
AC
Dammit, let's hear from some smokers here. I'd like to think that "hackers" aren't as much of a herd of brainwashed health-worshippers as the rest of the world (or at least the U.S.), but I'm not optimistic.
Gahhh! You live your life, I'll live mine.
Demerol IV push is a big one 8*). The drugs they are talking about here are recreational drugs. I wouldn't worry about them too much. There is bound to be some hand-wringing among the folks at MommyCo or in governments, but these are politically motivated reactions.
Getting excited about recreational drug use, OTOH, does people harm, feeding as it does the political climate of paranoia.
OK Rob, how about this for a poll "How many decent UNIX sysadmins aged 18-40 _DONT_ smoke weed?"
How many employers miss the opportunity to hire top-notch hackers through their use of drug testing? Is it true that the NBA can't test
for marijuana anymore? Will this soon be true
for programmers? Wondering..
... Heroin! The wonder drug.
Mmm.... smack.
"I must warn you up front that I am a junkie... anything you bring into the relationship will be sold to feed my habit."
The reason you don't hear stories is because of all the stigma surrounding drug use in our skewed society. Do you really think I'd show up in a meeting or lunch with my coworkers and start blabbering about how much fun last night was?
AC
I wonder how many Slashdotters have read WSB.
Now that would be a poll:
I have
B. Heard of William S. Burroughs
C. Who the fuck is William S. Burroughs?
D. Fucked William S. Burroughs
E. Fucked The Who
:)
I've known a lot of people who get really stupid on weed. They tend to be the people who are stupid to begin with. I've encountered a decent number of Linux-using-potheads in my day. A few BSD ones too.
Every web programmer I know is a major pothead.
Wait. Almost everyone I know is a major pothead.
I guess that's what I get for going to art school.
8)
When you work 9-12 hours a day, plus work on your
own personal projects the rest of the time, it
helps immensely to "chill" and be able to ignore
all the crap, stress and everything else that gets
in the way of doing work.
The most effective combination is: 5-10 good bong
hits and 2-3 cups of strong coffee. You don't have
the need to move for a couple of hours, and can
simply sit and work for the entire period, except
for a run to the bathroom.
Gotta love the AnonCoward.
Yeah, well, that's because there is something wrong with all of us. I do not know any normal sysadmins. And my definition of normal is pretty fuckin' broad at this point. Hell, I don't know many sober sysadmins and I think that the guy in the next cube is tripping again -- he is making those gurgling noises ... but that's par for the course in this business. The programmers are scared of us, the network people think that we are strange, and I have actually seen one of the mainframe jockeys reach for her rosary beads after a confrontation with our sendmail freak. I work in a Fortune 100 company, one of the largest of its kind, and I have worked with (thinking) a devil worshipping libertarian, a guy who used to collect "insurance" for some organization on the East Coast and is now the most menacing Jesus freak that you have ever seen (best friends with the Devil Worshipper, by the way -- they share a cube), more fried PhD candidates from the liberal arts than I can shake a stick at, drug people/cops, former members of our (and their) intel communities, carpenters, demolitions people, and more people with "unsusual" sexual habits that I can shake a stick at (hey -- stop doing that with my stick! Aw, geez, now I have to wash it in bleach ...). Do I care if they are sober? No, I just don't want them copulating on my desk or leaving animal sacrifices around the Lucent switches (it doesn't help, BTW). I want them here clothed and not twitching to badly -- and if they need anesthetic, so be it.
"Would you give root to a sober man? Hell no!"
So how many tech companies drug test these days? Any good references on how to find out? I imagine it's like everywhere else, with the larger companies doing most of the testing.
I'm having too much fun with reality.
No recreational drugs or alcohol needed.
Yes, I deal with stress, but I beleive I have a well formed understanding of what is important in life. Spending time in a state that is less than real makes little sense. Do problems go away after a benge(sp)? Drugs use make people less respectable due to their evident lack of self respect.
later,
kurt
We all smoke in this office, all the time. Really helps us. We're lucky in that we:
* work from home
* have cool management
* open source our bongs
The only thing that falls off is customer service. Sometimes I get so high, I can barely talk to clients without getting tounge-tied.
But That's why we have voicemail and email.
It's 4:20 somewhere... lets go.
-Bilbo
StarCraft too!! =)
What is your drug of choice?
1. Caffeine
2. Nicotine
3. Cannabis
4. Cocaine
5. Speed
6. Phenethylamines
7. Tryptamines
accurate information on all of this stuff can be had at lycaeum.org and erowid.org
Who hasn't read WSB? After a long session with sendmail, it just makes you giggle, completely sober
..."
"... so I fucked him slow and pimplike
"Only one thing can fill that hole."
C H O C O L A T E !
The artical is from the UK. Sucky sucky if ya gotta pee for the man. If the majority of companies ("High" tech) tried that bullsh*t in sunny Kalifornia they'd be hard pressed to find people who wouldn't come up with THC in the pee. Have a drink, or take a toke. Which is worse? If pot use wasn't a crime ya could eat (bake with) it and avoid the dangerous free radicals that you have to take in by smoking. Blah, blah, blah. Don't like drugs don't do em. Think drugs make you cool, think again fool. Like drugs, fine it's your time.
If somebody has an addictive personality or problems they are trying to avoid then of course they are gonna get hooked, more often than anything else it'll be Gambling and Alcohol - mostly because they are legal and acceptable, this despite the fact that they screw more lives up than any other addictions.
Marijuana, LSD, and E aren't physically addictive, running away from problems or (more often the case) having a good time is.
Besides which eating meat is worse for you than smoking pot.
You guys dont get the good stuff.
a big dose of NYQUIL will nock you off your feet and give ya a good buzz. and its totaly legal.
Microsoft integration = Inbread software!
Yes!
kurt
4/20
'nuff said
Caffeine is 100s of times more toxic than THC. It is also much MUCH more addictive.
It makes ME sick that you assume that all pot-smoking persons are going to be the same as your roommate. I find your generalizations just plain wrong.
Why not tell it like it is.
The same reason I deal better with machines than I do with people is the reason I do drugs. I was abused in some way as a child and the drugs make the emptiness and emotional void I feel seem OK, so I'd rather just do drugs than go get councelling and learn to relate to people on a better level. God forbid I might get a girlfriend and take away from my programming time.
I hate to tell you this guys, but the house of cards WILL come down one day and everything you thought you were building will prove to be worthless. But feel free to turn on again, because I know that some things you just have to learn the hard way. Just don't come whining to me blaming the drugs for your personal shortcomings, because I'll be forced to be brutally honest with you if you do.
I'm a programmer and I smoke alot of pot. in fact there's a strain of pot for programmers, called flow. POT POT POT POT POT POT Better for you than alcohol
160mph is better than h, speedballs, and meth. When I was about to crash, a few years back, I took a vacation. To Amsterdam, so yeah, I had a hidden agenda there, but I rented this little POS Pug and drove it around. Went to Germany for the hell of it. Gave back the Pug and rented a 911. That was the day I stopped doing drugs. Can't get high on life? Think that that's bullshit? 160+ makes you feel more alive than anything. Get a beater, find a track, and get a life. In that order. Women find it sexy too, which is more than you can say for Java, even though I like it.
I'll second that. Most people I know smoke at least occasionally in fact. However none of us smoke compulsively. I smoke maybe 6 times a year, usually when on vacation.
However, any flaw I do have is fixed by an invisible, magical being to whom I devote a great deal of time and energy.
.. "Weird" Al Yankovic?
Don't tell me
Haha, typical response from a pothead. :-)
Since when does smoking pot and partying imply you 'have a life'? I'd much rather go *do* stuff than sit around drunk or stoned.
Replace a drug with a neurosis? That's an improvement? Why not just become fully schizophrenic?
Not everybody uses drugs to handle stress, in fact few do. I only smoke pot when I'm off from work, not in the middle of a project, not even on the weekend. I simply enjoy being stoned on occasion.
I smoke about 6 times a year. Want to know why? I find that the less I smoke the better the effect, so I keep it down to a minimum and only do it when I have time. I don't drive stoned, I don't work stoned.
Go ahead and fuck up your body. Us 'ignorant fuckers' don't really care what you do. Personally, I'll stick to working out/running/biking/martial arts/rock climbing/surfing and other types of physical activity to 'get high' and relax. But hey, everyone has to make a choice eh?
Life's too short to work with people who think they own you. If *my* employer started testing, I'd grumble, pass it (I draw the line at cola and a bit of alcohol), and then quit. That way they don't mistakenly think they've accomplished something.
As a Unix hacker, I stopped smoking pot when I was 16, and do the entire 12-step thing. It was, however, my drug of choice, and I still feel that pot should be legal.
(I hope you understand my need to be anonymous here)
I did most of my VLSI project stoned. I got an A, and a commendation from the prof. When my friend and I get stoned now, we typically argue about programming algorithms or politics, or physics. My other friend (a psychologist) wierd's me out on purpose. We are all professionals now working in the field. I've worked for 5 companies as a contractor and I do pretty well. I'm more than competent.
Not everybody who smokes is a burnout, and not everybody that smokes does it to escape reality. It is no different than alcohol and serves the same purpose. It's an enchancement, your brain is chemically controlled and you are altering that when you use a drug. You cannot achieve the same levels of euphoria without a drug, it is quite simply impossible, unless you have a chemical imbalance. I'd prefer the 'unnatural way'.
You'd be surprised who smokes. I was at one time. Stop getting all your information from television and just talk to people. Did you know that Indian's smoked marijuana in their pipes? Ever wonder why they are called 'peace' pipes? I think the world would be a better place if more people got stoned, it is utterly inconceivable for me to do something violent when high and it's a good reminder when I'm sober.
Anyone who's had a caffeine headache knows it's addictive, though withdrawl isn't very serious. But toxic? I thought the only danger was the stimulated heart rate, which is part of the *point*.
I don't need that high anymore.
What do you mean 'need'? I've never 'needed' to be high ever in my life. This has always confused me. I enjoy being stoned, but I've never had a need to be stoned.
and on top of that it's possibly even "good" for you.
What have you found Jesus?
The only thing I've found that is even remotely similar is from biking 100 miles and then suddenly stopping to enjoy the endorphine rush. However, this takes about 5-6 hours to do and requires you to be in very good shape. Still, I can run 5 miles and get something out of it.
A God Shaped Valve Replacement?
A Big Ol' God Shaped Glob of Spackle?
No! A God Shaped Hunk'a'Burnin' Love!!
It's toxic.
If you were to take pure caffeine, it would kill you. I think, something like a gram would do it.
Also, caffeine sucks.
Drug users have the advantage of coming down, and the clear head that comes with that. God has a nasty habit of lingering, affecting judgement (and voting habits) for years.
Learn from the Dutch. Don't get your info from a TV. Get a clue.
Hey, it's almost 4:20 now... :)
I'd always wondered what the "K" in "KDE" stood for...
Both Motorola and RCA drug test, but only urine. If you can't quit smoking for 2 weeks, then you do have a problem. Drink lots of water, and eat tons of junk food (I.e. gain weight) and you will pass easily.
Hell Yes, I smoked rock till 3 AM. I'm banging out code right now. A fistfull of valium helped me get my sleep.
Not only do I smoke to "fill an emotional void" but I drink "to fill an emotional void" I run "to fill an emotional void" I bike "to fill an emotional void" I ski "to fill an emotional void" I hike "to fill an emotional void" I read "to fill an emotional void" I program "to fill an emotional void" and I travel "to fill an emotional void"
God knows I don't do any of these becase I ENJOY them, just to fill that "emotional void". That's what my life centers on, filling some imaginary bullshit "emotional void".
Not everybody takes drugs to deal with stress, and this crap about "needing" to take drugs is garbage. I do it for fun, and for no other reason. If you've never taken drugs then you do not understand.
If you ever decide to try drugs, do it completely under your own volition, do not allow somebody to pressure you into it. It must be a choice made completely willingly, you should also not ever force somebody into it.
Reality is what you make of it. Reality isn't real, it's just the 7 senses you have. Marijuana,
for example, causes synapses to more easily fire, this will increase your tactile senses enormously. It will also make you more creative, however, a lot of the stuff you will create will be crap, but you'll still think it's an amazing idea at the time.
The day of the first acid trip was today, 56 years ago (at 4:20 pm even). Happy holidays!
(from the lab journal of Albert Hoffman, swiss chemist, quoted in LSD My Problem Child by Hoffman):
4/19/43 16:20: 0.5 cc of 1/2 promil aqueous solution of diethylamide
tartrate orally = 0.25 mg tartrate. Taken diluted with about 10 cc
water. Tasteless.
17:00: Beginning dizziness, feeling of anxiety, visual distortions,
symptoms of paralysis, desire to laugh.
Supplement of 4/21: Home by bicycle. From 18:00- ca.20:00 most severe
crisis. (See special report.)
Yeah, like, potsmoking damages your brain unlike alchohol! Delete all potsmokers!!! Viva Nancy Reagan !!!
I've tried caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, marajuana, LSD and Shrooms. Caffeine is the only one I have problems quitting.
some people mainline work....others toot up big nostril fulls of religion... I personally find smoking pot to be my habit of choice and to quote from the book that yer religion is based on" judge not...lest ye be judged"
so many church goers forget that the statement above is one of the cardnal rulez of christianity.
Spoken like a true addict.
I get to work doing what I'd be doing if I was at home (programming). I get paid for doing this more than I can easily spend without planning.
I've got a cool car, a good-looking long-term girlfriend I share a very nice flat with. I go on holiday overseas a couple of times a year and have some cool computer and TV gear.
(Girlfriend has just come to tell me to come to bed with *that* voice - really!)
What on earth would I want drugs or alchol for?
Yea, I'd like to see someone with a weak mind smoke dust. Their brains would drop core.
Same goes for taking upwards of 10 hits of acid.
Taking drugs is a kind of hacking- its using tools to make an organic computer behave in ways it wasnt intended.
I don't play as well, but I have a lot more fun!!
I've actually never met a computer programmer who
has been proud of using stimulants other then caffeine (hell, it's a religion for some). I =DO= however see that 60% of programmers in the part of the world where i am (Northern California) use thc and psychadelics. While some do smoke more pot then others, the output from them is about the same.
I have seen alot of interesting ideas come out of lsd/thc users, and some neat programs that result. As long as people create something out of their altered states, it doesn't look like drug 'abuse' to me. Come on, most xscreensaver modes are only interesting after doing drugs, ever wonder why they are included?
Actually I can legitimately say that because that was me 7 years ago, and I crashed and burned and saw numerous friends who were "Only getting high because it was fun" crash and burn in exactly the same way. They always make the same mistakes and they always get just this defensive when you imply that there might be something psychologically wrong with them.
Yes, I had a bad childhood. Yes I was abused by a family member and and watched my mother crash and burn in exactly the same way I did a decade later when I was 12. No I make no excuses for my stupidity. I'm just glad that none of the software I was writing at the time put lives on the line. I'm glad some shred of sanity made me get out before it was too late. I'm pretty sure the damage to my body has reduced my life expectancy to a maximum of 5 decades if I'm lucky. I'm lucky it wasn't worse.
So how do you know so much about drugs?
Simple enough. I've been there. How do YOU know so much about drugs? Have you been through it all yet? You will. The paranoia's a lot of fun. You can't miss that. Oh and the violent mood swings, those are a lark. Your friends will get a chuckle out of those. The increasing withdrawl from society will only help your programming career, and the increasingly low lows are just such a joy. Yeah, I've been there and if you're using drugs you will be.
Then again, why do you give a rat's ass about how other people live their lives?
Actually I don't really give a flying fuck. Go ahead and kill yourself. Darwin at work if you ask me. If you endanger MY life in the process, I will get a bit upset. Next time you go flying, stop to think about the mental condition of the guy who wrote your Air Traffic Controller's software. If you knew he was stoned out of his gourd when he wrote it (because of the "pressure") would you excuse it? I wouldn't.
No, you'll feel compelled (for some sick reason) to vomit up an undigested mess of ignorant biases and uninformed superstition. You mention "brutal honesty", but your entire post is hopelessly disconnected from reality. It's sad.
Actually I'd more than likely just laugh at you. But then you don't need any support do you? Darwin at work. Ha ha.
I can't believe nobody has echoed this opinion.
:)
An awesome girlfriend will keep you from touching _anything_ she doesn't touch.
Mine chugs 2-liters of Dew, so everybody's happy
Spoken like a true addict.
A. Marijuana is not physically addictive. Psychological addiction is arguable, but you can get psychologically addicted to Quake or Tetris or H. L. Mencken -- I've had a bitch of a time quitting each of the latter three, but when I stopped smoking pot i just stopped. No problem.
B. Addicts don't speak that way anyway, stupid. Yes, yes, I know: You probably saw some cheesy anti-drug propaganda which told you that all drug users are addicts. That's laughably wrong, but never mind. You fell for it, and that's what counts. So, anyway, quite naturally, anybody who's not harmed by something -- e.g. a successful, competent person who smokes pot -- will, when asked, tell you that he's not harmed by it. He's successful and competent. Where's the problem? Well, you, armed with the bizarre delusion that all users are addicted, "know" that he's an addict -- and you also know that addiction is bad! So of course he must be in denial, right? Right! It's a fine chain of logic, except that it's all predicated on a delusion -- to wit, that "use" == "addiction", which is no more true of most drugs than it is of alcohol or Tetris. Of marijuana, it's far less true, because many drugs (like alcohol and coffee) are physically addictive, while pot isn't. With some substances, prolonged use can lead to addiction, but pot isn't one of those anyway.
Have you any idea how thoroughly ignorant and brainwashed you are?
you dismiss the opinions of those who argue the dangers of drugs
He's dismissing the opinions of hysterical and uninformed puritans, and rightly so. If you want to find out about the actual dangers of drugs, ask the people who use them. They know what's dangerous and what's not, and they'll probably tell you (unless you come on like an hysterical and uninformed puritan, in which case they'll tell you to fuck off).
to say that having not 'experienced' drugs disqualifies these arguements is tantamount to dismissing the dangers of smoking or drinking and driving by claiming that those who recognize them have never smoked or driven drunk.
Oh, great, you're an hysterical anti-smoking puritan, as well. Wonderful. Well, you know, I don't do drugs (for various reasons, all valid unlike yours) but I do damn well smoke, and I'm very pleased at this moment to take your jackboots and your brown shirt and fuck yourself, okay, asshole? It's my life, not yours. Stay the hell out of my face.
As far as the "dangers" of these things, the problem is that the "dangers" of which you speak are largely imaginary. If you had ever smoked pot, you'd know that 90% of what you think you "know" about it is a mass of nonsensical propaganda. Nobody has any investment in generating nonsensical propaganda about drunk driving (there's no need for it anyway; the facts are there and they're not very nice), but a lot of people in law enforcement and related industries make a good healthy dollar out of anti-drug hysteria. Anybody who's been drunk knows damn well that s/he shouldn't be driving in that condition, because s/he may kill or injure somebody due to loss of judgement, alertnes, and reflexes. Of course, anybody who hasn't ever been drunk just has to trust the TV on that one and hope for the best. That's the position you're in. The TV tells you something very close to the truth about drunk driving, but about pot it tells you a pack of lies. Since you're so hopelessly uninformed, you're incapable of evaluating any of it for yourself. You're doomed to go through life at the mercy of every propagandist who comes down the pike. You're a willing (in fact enthusiastic) slave. Congratulations. I'm sure you're proud of that achievement. It's all you'll ever achieve, so you may as well enjoy what you've got.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Yes, I've noticed that. You might want to keep it in mind.
You and your girlfriend should try some X before going to bed. Then you can tell me why you like drugs. =)
Where are you getting your info from?
Do you have any idea how many E's are consumed in the UK every weekend?
P.S. crack cocaine and just happens to be one type of drug that US administration has singled out in order to keep black and hispanic lower class people in prison.
Just say no! It buys news guns and helicoptors for the feds while artificially inflating prices for the drugs themselves! what a great idea!
Well...
When I got out of drug and alcohol treatment was
when I got in to programming. Hacking for long
periods seems to have similar effects as hydrocodine and vodka. Of course "long periods" ususally last about 19 hours. I guess the compulsive/addictive personality goes quite well
with the hacker lifestyle.
My employer just announced random drug testing. I'm going to ingest every false positive in the book then sue the piss out of them for damaging my reputation or least cost them a little money for GC/MS confirmation. Fuckers.
I think we all know from Alex Butell (on LKM) what drugs do to programmers.
"a lot of the stuff you will create will be crap, but you'll still think it's an amazing idea at the time."
oh man, some of those business ideas (electric ceiling fans with pipes filled with really cold water, slim jim lego..) that you and your dorm-mates come up with and think can suceed.
and anyone who thinks they can get high on life, cannot begin to imagine what coke is like
Why on earth would anyone want to be a christian if they can't look down their nose at the infidels and feel better about themselves?
From what I learned in my Neural Networks class, you don't get `em back.
Umm, if you do that _on_purpose_, I don't think you can really blame them for giving you agony. Of course you can still blame them for using the incorrect result. But yeah, they really _should+ be able to trust employees.
But what if their used that information as a basis to call a "random" drug test on the person?
One of the things that still makes me laugh was when one of the founders of this company (say, one of the oldest companies in the free software arena) got up in the middle of a friday afternoon colloquium and said
"Drug Testing? Well, the official $COMPANY_NAME drug testing policy is that you should test your drugs before you buy them. And if they're good, buy enough to go around."
One thing that never fails to ring true: the underground is deep and mysterious. You'll find all kinds of commonalities where you'd least expect them amongst all different kinds of people: tax resistors to dominatrix freaks, graffitti artists to hackers, ganga smoking programmers to critical mass riders, people in organic food collectives and labor/union organizers. Never be surprised. . .
This is wrong info/urban legend. Noone knows where "420" really came from - prolly:
* someone like you guessing what the cop code was
* college kid getting out of classes at 4:00.
No, I think in C syntax we would have freed the person.
Yes we do need a poll for this
How many users surf /. stoned?
How many users program high?
>and anyone who thinks they can get high on life, cannot begin to imagine what coke is like
people who beleive you need first hand experience to know the effects of drugs are stupid
I used to have sex, now I have excellent sex on drugs.
They should be able to trust employees? Then they shouldn't have the test in the first place, right?
Well, I never want to program for more than a few hours at time again. It just feels unhealthy. But anyway, when I was working on an all day/all night programming project, I found the bugs while sleeping. The project was on Windows I hate Windows. Half of the problems were due to inconsistencies/bugs/lack of clarity in the manuals.
Windows sucks. If you have to debug, do it in your sleep. This also helps restore your body.
It's always 4:20 here in New Hampsha'... :-) After a brain frying day of working on a device driver I want to mellow out with some bud; all my programming friends are the same way.
> It's my life, not yours. Stay the hell out of my face.
That's exactly what I think of people who smoke in public. Just because they think it's a good idea to smoke, doesn't mean they should be forcing their exhausts upon me, inducing my raging fits of coughing.
Besides, I think it's disrespectful, just like slurping or eating with your mouth. But I suppose you don't need to agree with me on that.
> or eating with your mouth.
That should be "eating with your mouth open". Don't you hate those people who make mistakes in their comments and don't care enough to check before posting?
I think that the absence of civilization wouldn't last to long, now that we know about it. After all, a societal structure is bound to emerge, and who ever's on top will either be greedy and try to conserve resources (efficiency => specialization), or be nice and share everything equally (including interesting work => specialization).
haven't read the book, but as an amphetamine addict it's tend to agree, this is one hard subject... but then my addiction has taught me a lot about myself too. i don't have any regrets, and i remember back when i first recognised i had a problem with drugs that i would trust myself enough to stop when the time was right, and that self hat over the actual drugs wouldn't help, because they are a symptom/diversion, they aren't the real issue.
:) ), you party to celebrate something.
:) it's hard.
ulimately drugs don't get you high, they bring you down. it's a drag being addicted to something. it's a drag being on fast-forward all the time, becasue you forget how to function at a normal level. you can't party endlessly just for the sake of partying, becuase it isn't about anything (draw parallel with capitalism here
no-one could have told me this. i had to find out for myself.
recommend a fantasic web site relating to crystal/speed information : http://www.tweaker.org
strangely, to the timing of this thread, i made that decision to cut out needle use yesterday.
Hell, I cannot justify spending money on drugs that would be put to better use buying new computer hardware...or more computer hardware...or old computer hardware...heck, maybe even software...Just illogical. :)
Why bother with a drug test. They could always grab all your money and property under civil forfieture and never charge you with a crime. All that is required is suspicion of money earned from drug trafficing. RICO and other "drug war" laws have allowed this for almost a decade now.
- The Bill of Rights: Rest in Peace
It was on a suburban street (he was Australian not English). The F1 fits 3 people, a driver in the central position and two in the back. He was going so fast you could not tell it was a car any more, the impact ripped the motor out and was found down the street somewhere. He was killed together with his two friends.
As far as I know, almost all large companies drug test. I have never gotten a job somewhere or heard of someone getting a job somewhere with more than, say, 20 employees, and not being forced to submit to a drug test.
Take it one step further. If you ingest too much water, you can actually get water poisoning and die from it without drowning.
Most of the psychotropics are very safe compared to most other drugs which we take regularly. You could survive 150,000 hits of LSD-25, but that many aspirin would kill you quickly. It's some of the other alkaloids in the mushrooms and other fungi that cause the real dangers.
The simple fact is, most of the common information about illegal drugs comes from the government. And we all know how honest the government is. Think of it this way, who makes money on in War on Drugs? Two groups: the drug cartels and the government. Billions of dollars worth.
Now if people only did opensource and never sold their software they couldent pay for their drugs. This is a bad thing, i wanna beable to afford the good stuff
I can confirm that. One of my co-workers was a BSD developer. I have smelled pot on his breath at least once.
Discussions like this is why slashdot has ACs.
Yes, IT people can and do program. If this is you , "Oh, me, oh my, I'm a database programmer, I don't do networking," or maybe,"My boss seems to think that I should be able to set up user policies, I'm a C++ programmer, consarnit!", then you need to wake up. IS people need to understand IT infrastructure and vice versa. This is how technology progresses, by working together, for a common goal. If you don't understand the business initiatives of a technology project, how do you expect to accomplish them? If you can't do these things, prepare to work in a cubicle underneath a pointy-haired boss for the rest of your miserable life. Do yourself a favor and take some drugs, your life must suck. I learn anything and everything I can about technology and business. I am pursuing IT and IS certifications. But to answer what I really think your question is, yeah, the writer of the article probably didn't realize what he was writing.
15 hits of acid take alot of intelect to control.
OK, it's the first time I've had to use an Anonymous Coward in quite some time, but it's required to comment on this with any sort of honesty. I think that says something about the law and er, opinions like this right off - you can't get real-world experiences from the populace because it incriminates them.
That said, I'm sorry to hear you think I should be "deleted" as a person because I'm a pothead. And I am, make no mistake. What injury I've caused you or anyone else to make you want to delete me is a mystery.
I've been smoking pot regularly for 25 years, but apparently I can still spell and write better than most people on Slashdot.
I've worked on, well I can't tell you, can I? But let's just say Fortune 100 and the military, as well as a bunch of small companies. Applications include audio/video, insurance, financial, industrial, communications, etc. I sincerely hope you have as good a career as I've had, but you seem to lack a certain flexibility of thought that may hold you back.
I've got about 6 assembly languages, C/C++, FORTRAN, COBOL, VB, Java, HTML, Perl, blah blah blah. And I've done hardware troubleshooting to the component level.
My clients love me. I make $110K/yr, have Jag and Porsche convertibles, and a small (but especially pretty) farm. Now I could probably do a lot more moneywise, but I'm not greedy. I guess it's the pot killing my motivation. But when you get past $100K your basic life functions are pretty much taken care of, and I'd prefer to spend some of my time on earth actually hanging out and not working, so that's a tradeoff I'm prepared to make.
You can consider me a loser if you want, but if your main adrenaline rush is playing a game with a Bot I have a turbocharged 750 cycle in the garage, and I'd suggest you take it through the Holland Tunnel into NYC and see if you can jump Broadway at Houston Street and then make it up the West Side Highway. THAT is adrenaline.
Oh, and I don't do Macs. Sorry.
Sorry, no spandex shorts or nautilus equipement. I mostly use free weights and crank metal or industrial when I work out. Oddly enough, I listen to the same music when I code (just not as loud..hehehe).
;-)
Anyway, I don't care if you laugh at me. But don't laugh too close to me or I might kick your ass.
people who beleive you need first hand experience to know the effects of drugs are stupid
I guess you knew what sex was like before you did that. You're a moron. You don't know what something feels like until you've done it. Before I ever smoked weed, I had absolutely no idea what it would be like. I'd heard descriptions, but they just didn't capture the experience at all.
In short, if you want real, hardcore, untrammelled cretinism -- forget simple stupidity -- talk to people (like yourself) who think that reading a book is a substitute for experience.
You have a brain the size of a walnut. Don't breed.
sweet mary jane /.
me and her are regs at
What about LSD?
I take the occasional trip, but more as a purpose of reflecting on my life so far - not in any way related to the stress of my IT job. I also take speed, but thats at raves when I'm not working. I would take these drugs regardless of if I had a stressfull job or not.
This article is just FUD designed to put a bad image on IT and drugs.
I noticed the same thing about a wee nip of vodka.. After some experimentation, I came to the conclusion that certain things are easier to do while mentally impaired because they are otherwise excruciatingly boring, and the boredom gets in the way of doing a thorough, disciplined, complete job. Debugging certainly falls into this catagory. So does playing mtrek, incredibly enough -- the game's characterized by hours of patient and diligent scanning, searching, and waiting, punctuated by minutes of action.. I'd expected the vodka to kill my mtrek performance, and it did noticeably impair my abilities during those minutes of action, but to my surprise doing a better job at the waiting / setting-up part of the game had much more of an impact than anything else.
Coding, on the other hand, is best done sober.
BTW, if you don't know what mtrek is, telnet to mtrek.com and have some fun.
if BillClinton=pot.smoke(positive)
{
assert seeds=false;
packBowl=true;
return 420;
}
Considering the going rate for a programmer when I started was about $12k/yr.... yeah, it's ok. I've had life pretty much the way I wanted, thank you, and that's enough accomplishment for me. I like cars. I like *those* cars. I hope you have what *you* like.
In a forum where so many people get slammed for being greedy suits, I find it surprising that NOT being a money-grubber gets me hassled. Yup, I'll admit it: if I can make 6 figures and have a 7 hr day, I'm happy. But hey, I'm just a pothead, I should be deleted anyway by now.
Just like, uh, you know, uh . . . You know. Doing stuff that I don't do or something. I mean, whatever it is, if I'm not doing it, why should you need to do it? And if it's not needed, there's no reason for it to be allowed.
Personally, no, I don't do drugs, but I completely understand why many software engineers do. Pressure to meet deadlines is incredible, and it's often "easier" to do things yourself than it is to distribute work to your co-workers. Most engineers I know use caffeine to keep themselves alert a little bit longer, or to push themselves through an overnight effort. A few that I know use cocaine or speed to boost their productivity -- and I have seen them pull off some incredible feats. So apparently the stuff does work for some people as a sort of super-caffeine. But once they know they are capable of such prolonged high-intensity effort, it gets very difficult for them to let go of it. The pattern I've seen is one of increasing willingness to use drugs for less and less critical tasks. They used to only do it around end of quarter, but after a while they'd do it just so they could put in another hour of multi- player DOOM before going home.
I've done something similar -- I'm bipolar, and I take medication that stabilizes my moods. But I have noticed that if I lay off the meds for a little while, I swing into a manic phase which can greatly improve my productivity. It's dangerous, though, and I've gotten burned by playing with it enough to just not do it anymore. Sometimes I'd stay off the meds too long and swing into a completely unproductive depressive phase, other times I'd come off them too fast and I became too manic to be productive. Either way, it was horribly damaging to my projects, my home life, my mental health, and my career.
Hey, I didn't say I was a success, did I? No, I'd need millions to consider myself a *real* success. Let's talk 110' yachts, right? No, I'm just saying that you can be a potsmoker and not be what most people would consider an unemployed loser.
Apology gladly accepted.
I thought his post was inflamatory and offensive. It pales next to your diatribe, however
Thank you. It's very nice of you to say that. I did try, and it's gratifying to be appreciated.
You're a willing . . . slave.
I struggle to understand what I could have possibly said to provoke this.
Looking back, I'm not so sure myself, but by God it was a hell of a rant, wasn't it?! Yeah! It almost had wings. I was really in form there.
Try to be reasonable though; I've done my best.
Aw, you're no fun.
Anyhow.
I don't claim that smoking is harmless. I don't claim that fried foods are harmless, either. This "harm" thing is overblown. Everything we do has some effect on us, often quite bad. A lifetime of hamburgers won't do you any more good than smoking, believe me.
As for your objection to the post you responded to (it's National Preposition Week; bear with me), you talked about the "dangers" of drugs alongside the "dangers" of drunk driving. Well, which drugs? What dangers? Most of the drugs under discussion here (mainly weed) are pretty harmless. See the rant about anti-drug hysteria in my original post. It's valid and relevant. I really don't have anything to add to it, except that this word "drugs" is a slick piece of propaganda in and of itself. It's a label used both for Demerol -- which is hard core evil shit -- and weed -- which is a pleasant intoxicating herb, not harmless but less dangerous than alcohol. But alcohol isn't a "drug", is it? And why not? Not for any valid medical reason. It's just not on the list of things demonized under the word "drugs". So we are expected to believe that weed and Demerol are essentially the same sort of thing, while alcohol is something else entirely. But when you think about it, alcohol and Demerol are both central nervous system depressants (that means that if you take enough, you will die) and they're both physically addictive. Weed doesn't do that stuff. It's a mild psychotropic. No doubt it's bad for your lungs, and I wouldn't trust somebody driving stoned (the attention span suffers a bit) -- but I'd trust a stoned driver before I'd trust a drunk driver, or one on Demerol. I've been in cars with drunks and stoners. I didn't enjoy either one, but the stoners were more on the ball, and a lot less aggressive. If forced to a choice, it's stoner, stoner, stoner for me, baby (I myself drink, and I don't smoke weed, but I don't drive drunk. I used to ride my bike drunk until I fell, damn near broke my arm, and damn near got run over at the same time).
And you know what? If an 18-year-old kid has a six-pack of beer, he gets a slap on the wrist. If he has a joint, it pretty much the end of his life. They'll throw him in jail for years. He'll have a tough time getting a decent job after years in prison. And for what? Just exactly why must the entire weight of society's wrath be brought down on this kid's head? Does anybody have any sort of convincing rationale for this?
weed makes me way more deperessed, so i can't smoke.
i'm told that my personality is a very bad risk for acid, so i'm not gonna go there.
coke? heh. too corny, probably too expensive, too.
E? see coke.
speed? i don't need to be awake that much.
codeine/hydrocodan? Oh, lorrrrdy, man oh man, do i ever like that stuff! oh, yeah, wow, that's the drug for me. and for that reason, i avoid it at all costs. i'd be addicted in a month.
other opiates: see codeine.
so, basically, i'm stuck being drug-free, which sucks. it's horrible! man, it sucks. all i can do is drink. listen, self-medication is the spice of life, don't let anybody tell you different.
:(
A true addict, heh? I have NEVER seen any marijuana spoker that was addicted. Cigarettes, yes, pot, NO. Reason being that marijuana doesn't contain all the additives and unnecessary garbage that cigarettes do. I, personally, am a pot smoker. I am certainly not addicted. I haven't smoked pot in over 2 months. I smoke pot because it is natural. You say, "Why not smoke cigarettes then?" Because THEY are not natural, they contain thousands of additives. Anyway, just stating my 2 cents.
"Am I the only one who thinks that
.. they deserve something better. And since they had to endure the shit work for years, it's only right that the newcomers have to wade their way through the same.
software development is an activity which requires a lot of imagination and
creativity?"
It can be. It really can be. But there are a lot of programming jobs in which creativity is more of a detriment, or at least unvalued.
A form of stratification occurs at many companies. There are many tasks which need to get done. Some of them are "sexy", and require creativity, innovation, imagination, and chutzpah. The rest of them do not. They are "shit work". What often happens is that the more senior programmers get all the "sexy" projects and the less senior programmers get stuck doing nothing but shit work.
Naturally, the programmers stuck with the shit work would love nothing more than to hook their claws into one of the nicer projects -- so when they become more senior, they grab all they can and shove the shit work onto the new hires. After all, they've been doing shit work for years now
They justify this by pointing out that the better programmers' time is more valuable, so of course it should be spent on the more important tasks, but that's nine parts out of ten rationalization.
homegrown, baby. yeah.
"plant that bell and let it ring . .
They need the entertainment.
damn straight, and you booze drinkers don't delude yourselves... you're using a POWERFUL drug yourselves!
They're not. Still I've seen on in Malibe and another in Beverly Hills. You'd be amazed what $500 cash will buy during a smog check. :)
BTW he was in Britain. McLaren is a British company. It's only logical that they'd be able to drive `em in their hometown. As to the fact that the guy crashed his F1 after being indicted, so what? Everybody crashes these cars. McLaren's own VP hit a wall at 203mph in one (I wonder they explained that $1million writeoff to the shareholders?) I almost wonder if this wasn't some wierd coincidence. 0 to 60 in 3.1 would take my mind off of my troubles. He wasn't commiting suicide he had an accident.
yeah, there's some truth to what you're saying, but keep in mind that drug use isn't a black & white issue; there's gradations to everything. Some piss drunk crackhead draining the welfare pool is a far cry from some GenX IT professional doin ecstacy at a rave.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
-Aleister Crowley
No problems in the bedroom either thanks! (We've been together 6 years and it's still fun)
People who do drugs are losers and schmucks, usually both. Drugs are for white trash lowlifes who can't hack life. Winners don't do drugs because they don't want them. They are too busy enjoying life to enteratain something that causes harm. Don't agree with me? You're probably a dumbass druggie then and the best place for you is under the wheels of a semi.
Drugs don't need any help creating a bad image, the people who use them already excel at that. Drugs are illegal, and more importantly socially unacceptable, because they hurt people. Drugs don't help you deal with anything. They may help you ignore it, but thats not a solution.
So off with their heads.
"Health" (very oddly defined) is the closest thing to a national religion the U.S. has these days. Smokers are heretics.
While I agree that the dangers of [E, coke, speed] are far less severe than the general public believe, I think saying that they are on a level with dope is dangerous.
I wasn't. I was saying that "drugs" as a blanket term for all-of-the-above is a ridiculous and dangerous because it does imply that. Among other things, I sputtered: "this word "drugs" is a slick piece of propaganda in and of itself. It's a label used both for Demerol -- which is hard core evil shit -- and weed . .
I think we're on the same page here.
It is completely ridiculous to argue that because people do harmful things in order to hide their illegal activities from the law, those activities should be illegal. If anything, the argument leads to the opposite conclusion.
Maybe drugs should be illegal because of the risks they present to the user and other people, but I doubt it. Seems to me that there is no coherent way of using that argument without also, as a corollary, having to favour the prohibition skiing, cycling, surfing, and untold other risky activities, as well as policing people's eating and sleeping habits and everything else that affects their health and their productivity in the workplace.
I don't understand your point, what do criminals and criminal behavior got to do with drugs? The point being made is that drugs are linked to criminal behavior because it is criminalised. I'm not going into the 'if it were decriminalised ...' argument, but while drugs are illegal they will always be part of illegal behavior.
...
If you think drugs are OK for anyone you haven't done your homework
If you think drugs, pot, or the counter culture doesn't affect you, get some fresh air.
Could you please re-explain your above statements?
Rich
he was not European.
The journalist introduces his article with a story about Richard Dawes, who was not a programmer, but a salesman - he actually boasted that he didn't go near computers: "I have assistants to do that for me", was his motto. She then interviews a three young people she met in nightclubs in London. One is a web designer (i.e., graphic artist, probably), another is a sysadmin type, and the third is a programmer. From this she concludes that drug use is widespread in the IT industry. How did she know these three people were taking drugs? Maybe she was in the club buying ecstasy herself when she had the idea for the article! Typical bloody journalist.
The Independent (the British newspapaper which published the article) has a bit of a reputation for zeitgeisty pseudo-news features...
I think the absence of civilization might be a fine thing, if it were possible. It would be a cool thing to try, anyway. But with six billion (kinda) civilized people milling around, it would be pretty hard to achieve.
If you're drunk and you're smart, you should get in the car because drunk walking is dangerous, too. At least if you're driving it's more likely that it'll be someone ELSE you kill, instead of yourself.
Freud's entire career was built on cocaine. Depending on who you asked, his theories did a lot of good or a lot of harm, so I don't know whether this helps the anti-drug cause or not.
Since when does smoking pot and partying imply you 'have a life'? I'd much rather go *do* stuff than sit around drunk or stoned.
So then I guess people who do Ecstacy really 'have a life'? They're out there meeting people because their inhibitions are dropped and they actually enjoy the company of others.
The 'having a life' thing is all relative to your own happiness. If you are happy on the straight and narrow, building your career, amassing your material success, and falling in line, then you 'have a life' by your definition. If you find your job interesting, but don't like the 'cycle' of work, eat, play games/read Slashdot/whatever, sleep; and want to break out of it every now and then by altering your mind, then so be it. Who is the one who 'has a life'? Who is 'better' than the other person? Why the f*ck are we so caught up on judging everyone based on our definition of 'a perfect life'?
if BillClinton=pot.smoke(positive)
{
assert seeds=false;
packBowl=true;
return 420;
}
Assuming a C/C++/Java-like language, BillClinton=pot.smoke(positive) will return the value of pot.smoke(positive) and assign it to BillClinton, and then test that value using if.
More interestingly, assert seeds=false will always end out of your program (you are essentially calling assert(FALSE) with the side-effect of assigning seeds).
Ive been lurking on slashdot for a while but this is a particularly interesting topic so i thought i would comment:
:)
:)
;)
/. :)
I think that hash should be legalized,not one person has died directly from it,(im sure people might of fallen down the stairs but that can happen to anyone).
whereas alchohol is the #1 cause of crime and injury,dont get me wrong,im not saying drink should be illegal just that hash shouldnt be classed in the same ranks as coke or heroin,we have drug's every day,cafeine as you know is a *very* lethal one.
if any "accepted" drug should be ilegal it should be cigarette's (i say this a hooked smoker)
they are addictive and useless,you dont get anything out of them and they make you smell terrible(although you cant smell yourself),weed isnt addictive at all,and if it was in off license's and coffe houses like amsterdam it could do away with the whole need to smoke it at all.
icecream weed *mmmmm*.....even better: a pint of bud,with a sprincle of weed
I have a joint occasionally,not that much,i dont cause anyone any harm and besides the tiny pollution to the atmosphere i dont know why people complain,they are in a lot more harm walking accross the street.
a few weeks ago i was tempted to try E,people say that hash makes you go on to stronger drugs,their is absolutely no proof of this! if the person is enquisitive (sp?) and has that kind of mentality he is more than likely to experiment with other drugs or possibly get bored of what he is doing and want something new,"hash made me do it" is a pathetic argument!
I actually had a good bit to drink when i nearly bought the E,and find that with a joint i am content but it is drink that makes you want more and more.
ofcourse im not saying that everyone that drinks will be tempted to try stronger drugs,just that "most" people dont know their limit's when it comes to drink (especially when their young)
One thing i am interested in trying is acid,mainly because i already did my homework as far as drugs and know that it as well as MJ are the unadictive least harmfull ones,expect for prolonged use which i sure as hell dont intend to do.
I am a bit scared though about the safe limit of acid,safe as in being able to know what you are doing.I would hate if i tried to fly off a building
I would _never_ touch any strong upper or downer (cocaine,heroin,etc),they dhouldnt be legalised,not because of the damage it does to you,it was your choice to try it,but the damage it does to other people around you like a fucked up family and robbing to feed a habit etc.
so unless it harms other people i dont see what buisness of anyone else's it is to tell you you cant do whatever you want to *yourself*.
as far as a poll goes,this topic seems to have split into 2 main questions:
1) what drugs do you do
and
2)what drugs should be legal/ilegal
their are too much drugs to list so something like
1)domestic (nicotine,alchohol,cafine)
2)THC (lets face it its a class onto itself
3)halucinogen's (shrooms,acid)
4)uppers
5)downers
I hope people are still reading this discussion,its very hard to keep up with
or Pot Usage == Contented Programmer
:) ). Two years ago (I am 27 now), I tried it a couple times and realized that I liked it. Since I waited until I was older, I believe I was more in control of my new "vice".
I was 25 when I started smoking pot. My mom and dad had used it a lot all through my childhood, but I never did it myself (probably because I didn't like the smell back then
I sit in front of a computer 10+ hours a day and have realized that smoking this stuff allows me to enjoy the art of programming more than before I smoked it. I program more code, and I do a much better job at documentation when I am high.
It's not for everyone. If you don't like it, don't do it. Pot smokers are different group than the coke-heads. Don't lump the two together.
http://www.drugtext.org/
http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/
http://www.maps.org/
http://marijuana.newscientist.com/
http://www.norml.org/
http://www.lycaeum.org
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of java that the thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire a shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
I've never seen the point of nicotine.
Tell you what...if it's your life, cancel your health insurance, and pay your own medical bills when the time comes (and it will). Oh...I guess it's only your life until something goes wrong...then it's everyone's problem. A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
Heh. If you're going to pretend to be rational, objective, or honest about this (there's no reason why you should, because you have popular prejudice on your side, but let's just pretend
So.
Let's be adults about this. If we're going to penalize people for things which statistically are likely to have certain effects on peoples' health, let's be even handed about it. Let's give insurers the right to pry into every tiny little corner of your life and bill you for every Twinkie you eat, whether you like it or not. After all, they're paying for your body. They've got a right to decide how you maintain it. Right? That seems to be your point, as far as I can tell: That my smoking may at some point in the future cost you money, so therefore you have some rights in the matter. If you can get in my face about smoking for those reasons, I can certainly get in your face if you skip breakfast or if you neglect to engage in safe, careful low-impact aerobic excercises to ward off heart disease. You're costing me money, my friend. Straighten out and fly right.
(If you object to smoking because of the smell, that's a separate issue. You are sufficiently rude, inconsiderate, and self-righteously arrogant that I'd probably laugh at you -- but if you had even a trace of manners and you asked nicely, I'd put out my cigarette without any argument. A lot of people in this world are well-mannered. I get along very well with them. Then again, that kind of mutual consideration and decency is probably incomprehensible to an morals cop like you.)
If we're not going to condemn ourselves to the hell outlined above, let's behave like civilized people and treat each other decently.
Oh, yeah, one more thing: If I die when I'm 65, I'm not going to be costing you a whole hell of a lot after that, am I? Furthermore, when people die, they usually do it in a hospital. ALL of us. You, me, everybody. We all die, and we all die for some reason. Whatever people die of, odds are it will be treated, and the treatment will cost money. (Emphysema costs a lot more than some things, but then again it's quite rare.) You may very well die of something a hell of a lot more expensive than what I die of. Insurance is a game of averages. Your argument is massively simplistic.
It's the usual War on Drugs (WoD) scare-tactic propoganda. Hint: you can spot it when they talk about the general category of "drugs" without differentiating among them, and without acknowledging that many drugs are socially acceptable (caffeine, alcohol, aspirin, meds). Recreational drugs are all different, have different cultures around them, and it's deceitful and dangerous to make blanket statements about all of them.
I know many many people (including many programmers) who celebrate their use of pot, psychedelics, and Ecstasy, but virtually none who use crack, heroin, or even cocaine on a regular basis.
Starting in college, there was always a faction of the programmers who partied hard, including lots of recreational drug use, especially psychedelics. They weren't stupid about it either; they were careful.
One friend who hardly uses any drugs swears she's a better programmer after smoking pot, because she can picture elaborate and intricate structures better. And she is definitely a talented programmer. (I can picture elaborate things when I'm using psychedelics, but I can't keep my attention span long enough to code it in.)
There are so many problems with this article, I don't know where to start. I just scrolled my browser to a random screenful:
- "We found regular users who were clinically depressed at some stage during the week," Dr Curran said. "Ecstasy makes your brain spill out huge levels of serotonin, the feel-good hormone, and the brain has to work really hard to get it back."
- They lump ecstasy and cocaine together, as if they're similar cultures. Hel-lo? Big difference.
- "If you give four doses of ecstasy to a monkey it still has brain damage two years later," she said.
- "When it comes to the health issues, people poo-poo all the information pushed at them."
OK, that's half a screenful and it's already too long, so I'll stop now.This interpretation is skewed to fit their desired conclusions. Quite possibly, many people take Ecstasy in the first place to relieve depression. I know it helped me a great deal when I was younger and dealing with severe and depressing loneliness. It gave me the first glimpse of "life can be worth living".
Nothing quantified here, just ominous-sounding words. How much brain damage? More than a beer? Brain cells don't regenerate, so *you* still have a teensy bit of brain damage from your first beer. And giving four HUMAN doses to a little monkey is extremely excessive; no educated drug user would take that kind of relative dose.
They poo-poo information from articles like this, whose main function is to scare rather than educate. Smart drug users take real information very seriously, but can usually spot propoganda.
If we had true dug education, young people would have far fewer problems with drugs. For starters, they would know to stick to the good and non-addictive ones. But since our government is saying "all drugs are bad", which the kids know to be absurd (if they've ever smoked a joint), they don't think there will be any problem with PHP or crack.
I take certain recreational drugs not to "escape" or to "cope", but because they enhance my life in many wonderful and insightful ways. And yes, to improve my relationships with other people. I have strong bonds with many of my lifelong friends, enhanced by various drug experiences.
(I'm anonymous here, until our society gets a lick of sense about this stupid anti-drug thing.)
Coyote-san wrote:
...I find your pseudocode disturbing. You didn't test for someone incapacitated by pot; you test for someone who tests positive for pot at *any* time. It apparently doesn't matter to you whether they smoked the joint before the big presentation to clients... or they simply attended the "wrong" concert with the "wrong" crowd over the weekend. (Or they ate too many poppy seed bagels too close to a random drug test....)
Technically, the pseudocode says nothing of the sort. It uses an unspecified "test" to determine whether or not the person "smokesweed", which the most likely definition would be "has smoked weed in the past and is likely to do so in the future". Of course using this as a criteria is just as dangerous as what you interpreted it as. Also, there is no real world test that would cover this interpretation.
The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil.
NyQuil is over 60 Proof, almost as strong as hard liquor! On top of that, it includes antihistamines which are notorious for screwing with reflexes and attention span. Driving on NyQuil is very dangerous. Personally, I think that the emphasis that "drunk driving is bad" is dangerous, because it doesn't address all the other stupid and dangerous ways people can drive while unfit. Most cold medicines, most prescription painkillers, lack of sleep, all of these can demolish your ability to drive. People tend to over look that because they aren't drinking. "Zero tolerance" laws are a bad idea in general, but the NyQuil example just doesn't hold water.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Drinking and driving is an unfair comparison to popping an E. While it is true that an "inexperienced" individual could make rational decisions about the intelligence of either act, somebody who snorts coke, or drops E does not cause second-hand effects to others, and does not risk the obvious catastrophes associated with drinking and driving.
:-)
I'd elaborate, but I've had this window open that I'm sure somebody else already has
That's the biggest "oopsie" I've ever performed on my Linux box: I got involved with that other great export from Chippewa Falls (and no, I don't mean Cray) and apparently changed the root password. The next morning, I went to get root to do something or other, and couldn't remember what I'd changed it to.
Maybe someone could come up with a handy-dandy serial breathalizer; when you go to su, you have to blow less than a .15 (hey, you're not driving a car or anything...)
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
"When I'm on E it feels like my mind has opened up - I don't care about anything."
Wow... all that from a window manager?
sure, it smells bad, but tobacco smoke smells much worse.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
How about a: Don't do drugs and post comments warning? I'm sure it would bring the number of incomphrenesible postings down. ;]
Well this guy lived in the UK where they make the F1's I'm not sure if they are street legal, but he was driving it madly all over his area and scaring the $%@#% out of the locals. He also was noticed piloting his personal helicopter dangerously low and fast in the area too.
420 (the code cops use for calling in pot) happens to be tomarrow 4/20.
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
>are there ANY sane coders who DON'T smoke weed?
-I quite firmly believe so... Of course, as for me, I may not be entirely sane - but who is? And I don't do drugs. I don't see why I should, because I'm a programmer? Nah, don't think so.
>anyone who says you can't code while stoned >obviously doesn't smoke enough buds!
I guess I don't...
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
Goddamn true! Especially when riding the roads on a motorcycle - that makes you feel _alive_!
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
Aren't we being a bit pessimistic here? To relate to earlier posts: I am a programmer, I don't do drugs, I don't have a girlfriend, I have no trouble in interacting with people. But: I don't consider drug users to be morons/losers/whatever, it's your choice, goddammit! If you want to make that choice, do so, I am happy with my after work-beer, and if you are unhappy about your decision, choose again - life doesn't stop just because you do something wrong.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
I too am annoyed by dopeheads while they spout their mid-stupor drivel, but I see it more as a freedom issue. If you want to smoke something that'll make you stupid for 4 hours, you should be able to. I'd prefer a beer anyday.
As for the issue of Toxins, there is nothing that you do that is not bad for you in some way. Breathing exposes you to environmental pollution, eating cooked food exposes you to aeromatic hydrocarbons which are known carcinogens. Eating uncooked food exposes your body to microorganisms.
Smoking dope isn't good for you, but don't give me that "it's too bad for you" line.
LK
Posted by mhmbear:
golden oldie, to be rediscovered every 4 months or so, . . .
Guess what - - - intellectuals/dummies/programmers and even regular people experiment, sometimes it is not good for them.
I did my experimenting, life in the fast lane, after 4 years at the UofM - A2, then as a COBOL programmer for the AF in Berlin, Germany 20 years ago.
Freud did Cocaine, there is an impressive amount of research going on into native peoples and shamanism. Drug use / lifestyles outside the norms / age groups and rebellion / too much money at too young an age ? I don't think there is anything really new in any of this - or does someone else see something I missed?
A2, we used to ask is it real or chemical (The joke is mushrooms were just as chemical as the LSD, but were grown in manure rather than local labs). Now, we can probably expand
those categories by real/chemical/electronic - soooo - basic parameters and reactions stay about the same.
There are other experiences out there - some will experiment. Some will try to control.
It has been just as interesting and rewarding as an oldster, who survived and fortunately wasn't caught or punished (except by my own mind and body), to explore 'recovery' on the web ! Never found a drug I could do socially other than chocolate - ah well - the addictive personality - is that why I'm here ?
Now, if I could just stay off the nicotine and relax my cramped back . . .
Gee, Let's trade a drug-induced delusional reality for a bible-induced one. Big fscking improvement. Addiction is the same whether it's drugs or middle-ages dogma.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Granted, I do roleplaying games, so I avoid reality too, but I *use* my brain to do it, instead of destroying my brain as I do it.
Hell, I don't even drink alchohol, except when I take cold medicine. The strongest thing I 'do' is Mt. Dew.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Haha! Oh wow, I almost forgot! I better save a bit....
:)
oh nevermind.
-Erik-
The beginning seemed to hypothesize that successful young people turn on to cocaine because its perceived as being glamorous...
This article reeks of 80s anti-drug hype. For the most part, the drug users I know stick to psychedelics, empathogens, and pot.
This article doesn't belong on Slashdot. Anyone can do drugs, and anyone can have a drug problem. Techies aren't more or less vulnerable.
(BTW: Someone please tell the walls to stop breathing; they're freaking me out. NYAR!)
--Threed
Yes you are.
Druggy losers? hehe... I bet you vote republican. Nothing like the closed minded running a country.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Since this is a U.K. study only I would suspect that there would be a big difference in the U.S. I have yet to see any programmers that would touch anything stronger then Pot. Even then they are hard to find. Even harder to get someone to admit it. I would guess that this story would depend more on Geographic location then on Job profession. I just find it hard to believe that my boss would be snorting back a 8-ball. As for drug testing... I have yet to have a job interview that did not test for drugs. In the U.S. I would have to guess that It would be alot harder to get a good job with a large company and be a Drug user.
/. poll idea. Who know's maybe all those stoned programmers from the 60's know something I don't. Do you think more drugs in college would have helped my G.P.A.?
It is a neat
( giggle giggle )
Last one in jail is a fascist.
If I remember my psych classes, where we talk about the chemical reactions in the brain and how drugs work chemically, the way that _most_ drugs work isn't all that different. It is easier to get to the same level of 'high' and sustain it with drugs. Many drugs boost the production of certain naturally created chemicals in the brain. And the 'high' actually comes from these chemicals rather then the drug you are taking. So it is possible to get the same highs naturally, but not as easy. Once again as far as I can remember.
Later,
Xamot
?
>Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole.
Yup, sacramental wine. Or kosher wine...
Those "old-time" religions have their drug too.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Yep, when you get to be my age, you don't do anything that might result in the loss of brain cells!
I'll stick to Coke, Dew, Dr. Pepper, and Becks and Corona in moderation. :-)
TedC
TedC
"Jimi did drugs, and Jimi's dead; I went hunting, and I'm still Ted!"
I think perhaps you should try playing Quake while on LSD or Mushrooms or even pot while listening to Orbital cranked up to 11. Then get back to me.
"and caffeine doesn't affect the brain" - riiiighht. Then why the hell do you take it? For the flavor?
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
Old Metallica, Nine Inch Nails, etc. are also quite good Quake music, and are preferable when sober. Just a personal preference.
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
> Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that > God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing > can fill that hole.
Duct tape?
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
yeah my ex g/f goes to school in Boulder, and shes a total stoner :P
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
nuff said
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
Sounds good to me...
:)
...if they weren't sorority sisters.
(hmm. Coding nubile women. Sure beats coding drugs. Atheists playing God, yeah, baby...)
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Heh. I don't do any drugs, but I don't have a girlfriend (and no prospects either) and I do not deal well with people. That doesn't necessarily make a person do drugs, but for those who choose to, that's their choice, and I'm not gonna question it. I may not do it, but who am I to argue with what they choose to do?
Seems like you're trying to prove your justification in saying "drugs are bad". Uh huh. Emotional benefits may only be temporary, but if that's what they feel they need, then go for it. (I don't trust therapy too much - my mom was in therapy some years ago, and from my POV, it doesn't seem to have helped things much. And no, it's not due to my dad that she was in therapy.)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
So they blow their brains out with chemicals because they're too stressed out. What about after the comedown? Hey, guess what, nothing's improved.
Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole.
but I think this one would need checkboxes
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Hey, isn't it 4:20pm? Oh my, it is! :)
Take a look at the clocks in Pulp Fiction - they're all set to 4:20... :)
Don't get me wrong, I had girlfriends during that time, but they all smoked, too. What i have now is a partner, and she doesn't do drugs, so I don't either. I have lots of sex.
Okay, that's true, but not the main point. The main point is, she is a real partner, she draws me out, listens to me. Real emotional support, being close and connected with another human being, it's better than any drug out there, and better for you.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
We should not forget the #1 and #2 killer drugs (measured in absolute numbers).
Another interesting aspect of UK/US comparison is that notions of privacy make it virtually impossible for employers in the UK to use drug testing on employees. Considering the hypocrisy of drug testing this is probably not a bad thing - I'm sure that far more money is lost to firms by employees being hungover than smoking a joint over the weekend.
Nick
-- "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park" - Jim Moran
The article is more of a report on the drug culture in the UK than a report on drug culture in IT. My limited experience says that Brits tend to embrace recreational speed and pharmeceuticals, while Americans are more puritan, often inisisting on "natural" drugs, or cleaving to the insistent "NO." Drugs seem to be a bigger part of youth culture in the UK as well, but this impression of mine may be driven more by media than reality.
It's about $1M US, and it's basically a road-going GTP (Grand Touring Prototype) car raced on the sports car (Le Mans, etc) road circuits. Definitely capable of >200MPH. Lot's of people screw up in them because you need to be a serious driver, and they sell them to anyone with the money. Shame.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
A couple of years ago a guy was stopped on the NJ Turnpike for having a taillight out or something. He had $1500 on him. The cops didn't like his explanation, so they took it. No drugs, revoked license, nothing. That's all they needed - the suspicion. Then you get to have a lawyer try to get it back.
Now they target investigations by how much $$$ they'll get in cars and homes instead of by the crime. A local car dealer suspected his half-partner of shady dealings, so he bugged the guys' office. It was found, and he was charged with an illegal wiretap. Then the cops found some pot in a shoebox in his closet at home, and they tried to get him to forfeit his $500K house AND the car dealership that he had run for 20 years. Like he paid for the house by selling pot to his friends, and not from the proceeds of his $2M/mo dealership. When I told this to a Russian friend, he said "But no, that can't be. That's what they did in Russia!"
Yeah, we know.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Hey, is there anywhere I could forward my resume? At least it sounds like you've got a rockin' crowd, y'know?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
What was that line? Guess it needs a re-write. Home of the beaten-about-the-head-and-neck-by-insurance-compan ies-and-the-morally-righteous, land of the can-i-have-your-permission-before-i-ride-my-bike-n anny?
We all die, and few of us ever choose when. No point in arguing about how.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
I used to smoke pot, hell I used to do many other chemicals too. I don't anymore.. why? I don't need that high anymore. There is a lot of stuff you can do that's legal, and puts you in a much better mood then any drug.. and on top of that it's possibly even "good" for you.
However it's not the same thing.. it never can be.. but it doesn't mean it's not as good or better as a drug high.
Though I do agree with you.. if you haven't tried don't judge those who have and do. You may not agree with their choice, that's your right.. , but that cuts both ways.
Ex-Nt-User
What do you mean 'need'? I've never 'needed' to be high ever in my life
Perhaps that was a bad choice of words.. I've never needed to be high either. A need is a symptom of addiction. But I chose to use it because I enjoyed the experiance. I used it socially, I used it by myself if I was in a bad mood sometimes. I don't do it anymore because I found different things that I enjoy more that high, and that pot interfered with.
What have you found Jesus?
No I did't find Jesus, I'm atheist if you must know. And since when does religion and drug use have anything to do with each other?
All I was saying is that there are other things in life that can be just as enjoyable as a high, mabey even more so, just because YOU haven't found them doesn't mean they DON'T EXIST. I'm not saiyng you are an idiot for using drugs or even that you are wrong for doing so. As far as I'm concerned you can do what you want because it's YOUR choice! But don't come off calling everyone that doesn't use drugs or finds other things that they enjoy more then drugs as some kind of nut just because YOU don't enjoy them.
A lot of people have had bad experiances with drugs does that give them the right to slam you because you have had a GOOD experiance with those same drugs?
It's about choice. And that one person should not frown upon anothers choice without checking it out for themselves.
Ex-Nt-User
Remember those two losers who prided themselves because they pirated software? Now that they have fancy jobs and make tons of money, I bet they're going to spend a lot of it on drugs. After all, they couldn't afford it before, and they have no problem being criminals.
--
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
given no evidence of the existance of god.. I would have to say the reality is that people just want to have fun on the weekend. While most people turn to alcohol.. (a dangerous drug) some people just choose different drugs.
you didn't include any dissociatives or psychedelics.. Dextromethorphan.. LSD, Ketamine, PCP, etc.
From the caffeine faq:
Toxic dose
The LD_50 of caffeine (that is the lethal dosage reported to kill
50% of the population) is estimated at 10 grams for oral
administration. As it is usually the case, lethal dosage varies
from individual to individual according to weight. Ingestion of
150mg/kg of caffeine seems to be the LD_50 for all people. That
is, people weighting 50 kilos have an LD_50 of approx. 7.5 grams,
people weighting 80 kilos have an LD_50 of about 12 grams.
In cups of coffee the LD_50 varies from 50 to 200 cups of coffee
or about 50 vivarins (200mg each).
One exceptional case documents survival after ingesting 24 grams.
The minimum lethal dose ever reported was 3.2 grams
intravenously, this does not represent the oral MLD (minimum
lethal dose).
In small children ingestion of 35 mg/kg can lead to moderate
toxicity. The amount of caffeine in an average cup of coffee is
50 - 200 mg. Infants metabolize caffeine very slowly.
Symptoms
+ Acute caffeine poisoning gives early symptoms of anorexia,
tremor, and restlessness. Followed by nausea, vomiting,
tachycardia, and confusion. Serious intoxication may cause
delirium, seizures, supraventricular and ventricular
tachyarrhythmias, hypokalemia, and hyperglycemia.
+ Chronic high-dose caffeine intake can lead to nervousness,
irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching,
insomnia, palpitations and hyperreflexia. For blood testing,
cross-reaction with theophylline assays will detect toxic
amounts. (Method IA) Blood concentration of 1-10 mg/L is
normal in coffee drinkers, while 80 mg/L has been associated
with death.
Shawn Asmussen
Don't get me wrong. I think it is stupid to prohibit pot and simultaneously permit alcohol, which is argably more harmful. But you are a fool if you think pot is harmless (much less shrooms or LSD!!).
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
I know that was a typo, but it's still pretty funny... PHP's not a bad little language, but every time I talk about it, people think I'm talking about PCP. :)
--
Jake
The thing that struck me the most about the article is that the dude crashed his F1. Man, that is such a nice car...
(sniff)
Tried reading it. Gave up. The writing style is rather dense, and a chore to get through. Maybe one needs to be on the right kind of drugs?
Most professionals that I know of have too many resposibilities to be experimenting. Many like me have random drug tests, and can not afford to screw up. There is simply just no time to "explore your mind." I could not function in an enhanced state, not to mention my health being compromised.
If teenagers were to be drug checked, watch out...
Geeks smoke? I was surprised at the October ALS when we gathered at a nearby bar and grill for some good brew. Upstairs was the bar. That was the first bar I have ever been to where no smoke was in the air. That whole night, I counted two smokers. The bar was filled with people who had palm pilots and unusual electronic toys. One of the girls from Linuxworld sat next to me. I just wish there was a place like that I could go every weekend.
That was my only experience at a bar where people didn't light up. The staff may have thought something was odd.
You don't have to have personal experience to understand a lot of problems. But you do have to have facts. Experience is not the only way to gather facts, but facts are required.
For some reason, the drug issue is unique in that people don't seem to think that facts are required to solve the real problems that are associated with drug use. "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" is considered a solid enough fact to dictate public policy.
So, you're right, you don't need experience. That said, I certainly haven't seen you or anyone else in your camp offer up and kind of insight or information that contradicts my broader point about the superficiality of anti-drug arguments.
No, all that's required it to make judgemental, sweeping statements about experiences you haven't had. For example:
- I think drugs
... are ... an attempt to avoid reality because it 'feels good' to do so.
Now, you can't get in the club unless you openly admit you don't know what you're talking about.- I don't even drink alchohol, except when I take cold medicine. The strongest thing I 'do' is Mt. Dew.
Attaboy!- Bill Hicks
The boundaries of my experience are the boundaries of a complete and all-encompassing experience. Anything outside of my experience must suck because I haven't deemed it worthy of my effort. Or it's too scary.
I'm not perfect. However, any flaw I do have is fixed by an invisible, magical being to whom I devote a great deal of time and energy. If people would believe that this magical being would fix their lives, they wouldn't be druggy losers.
>>...would be no MAC and no Windows :-; And this is a bad thing? :)
I have to return some videotapes...
> "Ecstasy makes your brain spill out huge levels
> of serotonin, the feel-good hormone, and the
> brain has to work really hard to get it back."
I find it hard to take an article seriously if they use an "authoritative" source on neuropsychology who states that serotonin is a hormone. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, NOT a hormone. Second, the output of serotonin from the presynaptic neuron is NOT hugely affected by MDMA (X), it is the reuptake that is affected. Plus, "the brain has to work really hard to get it back"?! Yes, X and coke inhibit the reuptake of dopamine and serotonin, but the body has no problem generating more, or reuptaking it once the drugs affects have worn off. The problem the body encounters is the post-synaptic receptors adaption to the large levels of serotonin in the synapse.
Josh
I don't do drugs and I very rarely ever drink. Well, 11.75 months out of the year, anyway.
There is the anual trip I make with a SysAdmin friend, and I've taken stuff with her I never even knew existed.
Then I get home, put on the tie, and it's clean and sober for another year.
Unix geeks are the devil's flunkies. I'm sure of it.
As long as they haven't found out about the barnyard animals in the server room, I think we can get through this.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Maybe these 'IT professionals' they interviewed were actually full time graphic artists, web designers, or mostly management and marketting people with spare cycles to burn.
Oh thanks. I'm a graphic artist/web designer (and coca-cola addict). During my idle time at work (waiting for Photoshop to do something, usually) I like to balance my checkbook, doodle, or talk to my co-workers.
In the future, I'd appreciate it if you reserved comments like that for mangement and marketing. I don't care about any of their feelings ;)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
You seem to advocate the idea that a person should not have an opinion about something that he/she has not experienced. Do you really believe this?
It's nonsense, of course.
For instance, I believe very strongly that the absence of civilization is bad and to be avoided, even though I have never experienced the absence of civilization and even though there are lots of movies that make the absence of civilization look appealing.
>I certainly can't imagine doing anything in front >of the computer on acid!
What about Cthugha? 8-P
----- My opinions are my own, etc, etc.
I've smoked happy weed a few times, but still believe that it's better to get 'high on life'.
So does that make me an exception?
No, of course not! It takes more effort to take delight in life sometimes, but if an individual has got what it takes, they can squeeze water from a rock.
It's much harder to sailboard than to operate a jet ski. Think about that one!
Lucky Strikes, unfiltered sticks 'o' doom for me, thanks.
There's a local employer who some friends of mine and I have had an interesting evolution for their level of crack usage. It started out with them smoking crack, but eventually they got to the level of taking crack in a suppository form.
Now the OpenSound guys... THEY have got to be smoking some serious crack.
See, it's an expression. I'm sure they don't, but they just seem to.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Gah. I know very few people who do smoke weed, and they're Mac users. That doesn't say anything about people who use various OSes as it does for statistical clustering. I can't stand pot. It smells nasty, makes me nauseous (I've never smoked it, but have had plenty of second-hand exposure), and tends to make the people who use it, well, stupid.
I had a roommate once who was a major pothead and, as such, had a major pothead entourage. They would always listen to reggae really loud while smoking weed, and have conversations which, although maybe enlightened in their minds, went something like this:
Heh, that's cool.
Uh huhuh, yeah, huh, like, totally.
Yeah, man, like... heh, that was funny when, huh, pfffffft, yeah, this is good shit!
Huh, dude, like... yeah.
Pfffft, bitchin'.
These are, of course, the same types who use Bob Marley as a martyr for the cause of smoking weed. Wow, some cause. So this guy apparently died for their right to smoke a drug which makes them stupid and hungry all the time. Great. What a thing to be remembered for.
Myself, if I want to get high, it'll be on an adrenaline rush from some good ol' FPS gaming. Hell, even a CTF botmatch (CRbot is fun to play with, even if the bot isn't all that lifelike or good; it's fun to have bots which talk smack and actually use the gestures).
I also like getting high on music. Some music, such as Cibo Matto's album "Viva La Woman," have this effect of putting me in a wonderful trance.
There are so many good things to get high on which don't involve introducing toxins into your system. Okay, sure, I abuse caffeine just as much as anyone else, but I'm trying to cut down, and caffeine doesn't affect the brain (at least, aside from being addictive).
Gah. Potheads just make me sick.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Not quite. The production run was only three hundred fifty, so they were already a hot commodity before everybody and his brother tried to break the sound barrier with it. I think something like ten or twenty have already been totaled. My uncle has been trying to get one for a year but no one will sell. I wish they sold them to anyone with money.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
3 days? Good god, where can I get some of that? Tomorrow's 4/20, my Christmas, and there's nothing I'd like more to buzz `til 4/23.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Let's get to what he's really saying here:
"Work from home" - I'm unemployed and live with my parents
"Have cool management" - My mom washes my clothes and vacuums, even though I'm 25
"Open source our bongs" - We pass the bowl, like every other pothead in the world
"The only thing that falls off is customer service" - Whenever I order Domino's I'm too scared it's the cops to open the door and get the pizza
So there you have it. Pretty cool job until your mom dies or dad kicks you out.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I wouldn't know about the drugs, but I've found that I get an effect similar to what you describe toward the end of a hundred-hour coding session anyway, especially when assisted by adequate Mountain Dew.
Once past 72 hours (after watching the third consecutive sunrise), things start getting weird. The fourth night is when things just start falling into place, though hopefully, as you said, the bulk of the code is already written, simply because the typo frequency starts to get out of hand.
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
Where do we send the resumes?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
You forgot: "Didn't he write the Tarzan books?"
Don't forget:
Nitrous
K
LSD
Smack
GHB
and many others....
I know (different) people who've done them all....
I have personally experienced this after taking 'shrooms, and it wasn't fun, but like they say, knowing that it's chemically induced does help.
Search first, ask questions later.
"Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole."
A three-way with a couple of nubile sorority sisters looking to broaden their horizons?
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
"Although I have no relevant experience with drugs, never having taken them, I feel compelled to indict all those who do use drugs. Despite the fact that all of my information about drugs is either anecdotal or based on biased, often wildly inaccurate propaganda, I think I am completely qualified to label all those who use drugs as unworthy of the full-human status that I claim just for having a beating heart (pumping squeaky-clean blood, no less!)"
/. ?
Hey! Who knew Nancy Reagan read
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
:-)
Have you seen Ironstayn vs Supergovernment yet?
what about noah's ark? if that isn't proof i don't know what is....sheesh.
Have you seen Ironstayn vs Supergovernment yet?
Is that what you mean? Is it?
Have you ever had those evenings when you're just sitting around doing nothing - maybe watching TV or flipping through old magazines? These are the times when you should try smoking pot. If you've nothing better to do and want to see things from another point of view, or just feel really good. Clearly, however, you've already made up your mind; but I would invite to experience what it is like before dismissing it or passing judgement.
Incidentally, I don't smoke up on anything even approaching a regular basis - maybe two or three times a year.
Shit, I'm high right now! Think I'll have another hit...
Drugs are bad when abused but they're worse when they're illegal.
Interesting statistic is the fact that the rates for depression among women are approximately equal to the rates of alcoholism/addiction for men. It's not an unreasonable hypothesis that much addiction/alcoholism begins as an attempt to self-medicate depression, since men are less likely to deal with depression in social terms or seek professional help.
Ants can carry around something like 15 times their own body weight. That doesn't mean ants are mentally strong. They're just physically strong.
Being able to ingest more toxins than most people is a pretty pathetic thing to brag about. Is that the best thing about you, the thing you want everyone to remember? But, hey, cheer up: if the world turns into a radioactive, ozoneless wasteland, we're going to need big, strong burnouts to fill the worker castes, living and mutating outside the domes, while the smart folks get things done in safety and comfort. Your descendants and clones should fit the bill nicely!
And remember (while you still can), Linux is for smart people; just imagine how you're going to feel when you have just enough smarts left to figure out the basics of MS Bob, and maybe AOL, but anything beyond that just slips your mind every time. You can remember doing all those cool things in Linux, but now you can barely remember how to get rid of that damn Paperclip thing. And then you smell something funny, and realize you had to take a dump 30 minutes ago, but it's no longer a problem...
Taking drugs is "hacking" like throwing iron filings into your monitor is hacking... they're both using tools to make things behave in unintended ways. Of course, the resulting lump isn't worth a crap, but hey, weren't you cool the night you did THREE eight-balls and a quart of tequila... *and* got the worm at the bottom?
The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil. Another 12,341,861 examples available in your local newspaper.)
Heh... remember the news stories about the kids (in different states, at different times, but all were apparently elementary-school age, around 9 years old) who gave a classmate an aspirin/cough drop/whatever and were *expelled* from school??
Wanna know what the latest cool gang thing apparently is to do here in California? The gang is called "Straight Edge", and they don't drink, do drugs, or smoke... and if they come across anyone who DOES drink, do drugs, or smoke, they'll beat you into a bloody pulp (or until you're dead). Doesn't matter whether you're talking to them, or if you even see them. If they see YOU doing any of those things, they'll pound your face into the pavement. After all, if you'll do something that horrible, god only knows what else you'll do. You deserve whatever happens to you, right?
John Sniffpal, a cab driver at NYC, crashed last month in his $2500 Ford cab. Incredibly, Sniffpal had charges for not giving the right exchange to passengers and for illegall possesion of one WD40 can that were not CFC free. That proves that all cab drivers are in the useless junk group, aside with pro sprot players and programmers.
This proves that politicians, church members and military forces are the only clean people in the country.
Hmm, interesting article. But most of the Geeks I see using (at University of Michigan, so it may be a very small population sample) either are drinking (beer or vodka) or smoking weed. But then again, there are some club kid geeks who use E...
You gotta remember that while geeks are a subculture (of sorts), there is still a lot of variation inside the group. Some people will abuse, some won't use at all, and some will use a bit.
2.2.6-ac1000 was released today. It fixes that god-shaped hole. Hopefully it will be included in 2.2.7
This sig is false.
what about noah's ark? if that isn't proof i don't know what is....sheesh.
I hope you weren't being serious.
if (serious) {
sarcasm(on);
Yeah, boy... What was I (and the many other non-religious people in the word) thinking?
That proves the existance of god beyond a doubt.
sarcasm(off);
}
This sig is false.
Never does anything for me. Choke down half a bottle...nothing.
Not even drowsy.
*grumble*
This sig is false.
Don't talk about not being able to "do stuff" or being a retard on weed. I have known many intelligent people who have smoked and continue to smoke Marijuana and are competent human beings. By competant I mean being able to handle their personal and work lives and still do things while under the influence... Please don't show more signs of bigotry people.. It just shows your own ignorance.
Eric Taylor
...loads of techies frying their minds on crack (WAYY too declasse) or ecstasy (too trendy and clubbish)? No way... techies are usually looking for mind expansion or a bit of mellowing out... the heavy stuff gets in the way of the fun stuff (work).
Which reminds me... the article forgets one thing. Most techies voluntarily work the crazy hours. The love for the work is the curse of the business.
In order, the drugs that are probably in heaviest use among techies are: caffeine (it's not even close), alcohol, herb, (insert prescription antidepressant/psychotropic here), nicotine (used to be much higher), psychedelics (LSD, psilocybins, etc.), milder downers (tranq's, ludes, etc.). Really heavy, hacksaw grade uppers like crack or crystal meth, honestly, I've never even heard anecdotes about a professional techie who's been around for a while using any of those.
I've heard plenty of stories told over goofy grins about booze, ganja and psychedelics for sure :-).
Never heard anyone talk, even in whispers, about crack, etc.
Yes.
There are quite a few of us who believe in freeing the weed as well as the source code.
I know more herbal appreciators than beer guzzling professionals.
Why do you think so few top paying sys admin / programming positions drug test? I think it is because this is one field where if you don't like a company's invasion of your privacy and violation of what should be your rights as an adult, you can easily find an employment offer with another more open minded company that realizes it is more important to get a good employee than to save a few bucks on their group insurance policy (most insur companies give discounts to companys that drug test).
I don't really agree with the article's insinuation that most IT drug users are crack heads, coke heads, or little x popping teeny college ravers.
I would say the majority are casual to cronic nug tokers, with a fair amount of shroom eaters, and few hard core old time LSD lovers. All non-addictive and non-harmful to the body or the mind.
It's the same in Georgia.
Wrong.
"They" don't give a shit 9 out of 10 times.
"They" like me, either tried, did, or do smoke.
"They" are a business out to make money and increase profits wherever possible. Insurance companies give discounts to companies who drug test. Companies are not going to volunteer to pay money for drug testing, possibly loose that hard to find producer worker, etc... without a financial motivation. The financial motivation comes from the discounts the insurance companies provide to companies that drug test. It has nothing to do about trust.
At one company I worked for, the president was making the move to initiate a drug testing policy for all new employees. He asked for my input. I asked why he would want to ever do anything that incredibly stupid...and found out how much money he could save on insurrance. When I suggested that he consider how much money it was going to take to replace me, he suggested that I had nothing to worry about because I was already hired. I made it clear that I was not worried, I was angry at what I had just found out, and that if he started forcing my new employees to pass a drug screening prior to employment or as a requirement for company provided insurance then I would be sending out my resume to the local competition.
The drug testing issue was dropped.
Not quite ignorance.
Just my personal "experiences".
Everything is harmful to the body if not taken in moderation. I cannot name one substance that enters the body that does not harm it in some way, much less in excess. Oxygen is needed. Two much oxygen and you die. Water quinches thirst. Water can drown you. Food provideds nutrients. Food makes you fat, clogs your atteries, etc...
In keeping an open mind and doing research into drugs when younger, the medical books and human biology material I read lead me to believe that pot does not cause long term harm to the body in more than turkey can. Same thing for mushrooms and LSD. They do have benefits that far out way the cons when used properly and in moderation.... such as mental relaxation and spirtiuality recharging. Why just eat for a healthy body, why can't you eat for a healthy mind as well?
Do you have any credible information to validate your remarks or are you just regurgitating some bullshit you believed off a dare commercial?
Want to go one on quoting NORML versus DARE literature? Want to see who ends up sounding blissful and ignorant? Fire it up.
When is traditional tea time in England?
Also, my favorite:
... new articles six days a week.
www.marijuananews.com
Richard Cowan dissects newspaper stories on the drug war from around the world
As far as I can see, they interviewed a bunch of young people involved in the Brittish rave/drug scene who happen to work in IT. They could easily have done the same for any other industry which hires young people, and it would've had the same level of relevance.
Bite the hand.
Bite the hand.
I've got to agree with A-Cow this one. Let's see now... the latest polls show what... 2 out of 5 people have smoked MJ... OK... well, now I would think that if you include the paranoia factor in there, one must rectify this statement by saying that 2 out of 5 people have admitted to smoking MJ.
Lots of people in the industry smoke. They may have trouble remembering where they left their keys, but it doesn't seem to nullify the years of code that have been engrained there.
And by the way... When did it become OK to analyse your employees activities when they're not at work? And how does this give you the right to assess what "optimal performance" might be for any particular employee?
If I played basketball every night after work & stayed up late watching TV so that I'm always tired when I come into work, does that mean I have a problem that effects wy work performance and my lifestyle should be under a microscope in Human Resources?
The point here is that if your work suffers you will hear about it. If you have a "problem" with ANYTHING then you will pay the piper. Somehow people think that because there is information about why something is bad for you that the public no longer has the right to choose. But it's selective though isn't it? Nuclear power has been proven over & over to be dangerous & toxic, but they haven't outlawed their use...
So if something makes a buck and kills you it's OK, but otherwise you're too inept to make your own informed decisions...
OK fine, be like the dutch. Legalize the marijuana & tax it, HEAVILY. Make the prices the same as they are now, but instead of the money going out of the country to cartels, let it be used for education, or anti drug crusades against DANGEROUS drugs. That way the 'dumbasses' can pay to do away with themselves.... Right?
Why are we fighting natural selection?
I did most of my VLSI project stoned. I got an A, and a commendation from the prof.
Yeah...so you did a second-rate job on your project, and your prof (who must have been stoned as well) did a second-rate job grading it. It's not something I'd be bragging about.
My clients love me. I make $110K/yr, have Jag and Porsche convertibles, and a small (but especially pretty) farm.
Rising to the pinnacle of mediocrity. Quite an accomplishment.
Well, you know, I don't do drugs (for various reasons, all valid unlike yours) but I do damn well smoke, and I'm very pleased at this moment to take your jackboots and your brown shirt and fuck yourself, okay, asshole?
Tell you what...if it's your life, cancel your health insurance, and pay your own medical bills when the time comes (and it will). Oh...I guess it's only your life until something goes wrong...then it's everyone's problem. A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
somebody who snorts coke, or drops E does not cause second-hand effects to others, and does not risk the obvious catastrophes associated with drinking and driving.
You have GOT to be kidding. Cocaine DESTROYS lives. I destroys careers. It destroys families. It may not be anywhere near as immediate as an alcohol-induced car wreck, but there's no question about what it does to people.
I must apologize for such a quick and ill-mannered response. It's apparent that this poster and I have different ideas of success, and I just did a poor job pointing this out.
While I have never used any type of drug (illegal) many of my friends have. One of the things I have noticed is with LSD and other Psycoactive drugs you can never tell what they are going to do with you mind. A girl I knew took LSD once and is now in a mental hospital after going totally insane. It could be argued that that is a rare case but the point is it could happen. I view drug use as a sort of playing russian roulette with the brain. Sure you could do all sorts of drugs and end up fine and maybe even better off then if you never did. On the other hand you could get screwed up the first, fith, or 20th time you took them. Not to mention the amount of money you can soak into them and the possibility of going to jail. To me it just isn't worth it in the end.
(Besides that I am a christian and don't believe drugs fit in with my purpose in life any way)
I always liked the Barsoom ones better. Have you read that Philip Jose Farmer story where he tried to write a Tarzan story in the style of WSB? As I recall (it's been a while) he didn't quite nail WSB's style, but it was a hoot anyway.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
Spending time in a state that is less than real makes little sense.
I assume you don't read, watch movies, watch TV, play video games . . . ?
Do problems go away . .
You're assuming that everybody who uses drugs, does so to "escape problems". Why do you assume that? If that's an accurate description of recreational drug use, then it's an accurate description of all other forms of recreation as well.
. . . after a benge(sp)?
It's "binge". Who said anything about binges? You're taking extreme examples (probably from the media), and insisting without justification that they accurately reflect all cases. Not everybody who has a glass of wine with dinner (or on occasion two or three) is an alcoholic wife-beater.
Drugs use make people less respectable due to their evident lack of self respect.
It's "evident" to you, maybe, but not to anybody familiar with the phenomenon.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I was abused in some way as a child and the drugs make the emptiness and emotional void I feel seem OK . .
I hope you realize that you're talking to people who exist only in your own mind and in the media. Read some posts here. They're all saying they get high because it's fun. Deal with it. If the only way you can "refute" drug use is by flaming strawmen, then maybe your "refutation" is a crock, ever think of that?
some things you just have to learn the hard way.
So how do you know so much about drugs?
Then again, why do you give a rat's ass about how other people live their lives?
I'll be forced to be brutally honest
No, you'll feel compelled (for some sick reason) to vomit up an undigested mess of ignorant biases and uninformed superstition. You mention "brutal honesty", but your entire post is hopelessly disconnected from reality. It's sad.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I can legitimately say that because that was me 7 years ago [etc. about bad experiences]
You and some of your friends. Well, that does suck. Nobody should have to deal with that shit -- but you are not representative of everybody who takes drugs. Quite a few of my friends have done drugs for years, for entirely different reasons. They weren't fucked up when they started, and they're not fucked up now. As I said before, "your entire post is hopelessly disconnected from reality". Okay, "entire" was an overstatement. But you are using a small amount of anecdotal evidence to attack people who you've never met, and who do not have the same problems.
Your would have the same problems regardless of drug use. People whose childhoods got fucked up have problems. Your tendency to blame the victim is depressing, because it seems obvious to me that you are not responsible for what was done to you, but that's your own business. You are, of course, entirely responsible for your subsequent decision to take your anger out on others and continue the cycle. This, I suppose, is where it's convenient for you to blame yourself for what happend to you -- because then when you attack others, you'll at least be consistent when you blame them for what you do to them. Brilliant.
the violent mood swings, those are a lark . . . increasing withdrawal from society . . . increasingly low lows
I get all that crap without drugs.
Go ahead and kill yourself. Darwin at work if you ask me.
You're the one who had the problems, baby, not me.
If you endanger MY life in the process, I will get a bit upset.
It's hard for me to imagine what worth your cramped, hostile little existence could possibly have for anyone, even yourself. Then again, we're all God's children and you've got as much right to live on this earth as I have.
If you knew he was stoned out of his gourd when he wrote it (because of the "pressure") would you excuse it? I wouldn't.
I wouldn't excuse somebody writing mission-critical code at 4 AM the night before it ships, either. You're insisting that anybody who takes any drugs at all must necessarily be "stoned out of his gourd" 24/7, but that's absurd. I drink a glass or two of wine with dinner most nights, and then I get up the next morning and drive, cold sober, to work. I work all day, cold sober, and drive home. I feed my cats, cold sober. When dinner comes around, I generally have a beer or a glass or two of wine with my dinner. In your mind, this probably means that I'm writing code "blind, stinking drunk" at work all day. Fine. Assume anything you like. What were you saying above, about "paranoia", "violent mood swings", "withdrawal from society" . . . ? Hmmm . . . You don't seem to need drugs for that.
I'd more than likely just laugh at you.
I wouldn't laugh at you. If you behaved as badly as you're behaving here, I might very well ignore you, but I wouldn't laugh. We're social animals. A culture is doomed if the people in it don't treat each other decently.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
It's the queers! They're in it with the aliens! They're building landing strips for gay martians!
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I don't use drugs but I drink lots of alcohol and caffine, especially when writing code. It really fucks you up but it seems to temporarily improve creativity and let you work longer hours. Lately I've been drinking a lot of vodka before coming to work. Makes me perform better. Has the very noticable effect of doubling my productivity.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Interesting article, in that it almost glorifies drug use. Other than the opening paragraph, all it talks about are a bunch of wealthy Gen X'ers out having a great time and getting wasted on the weekends. This is bad, how?
I personally don't do drugs, but I also don't give a damn whether anyone else does either, as long as they keep their drunken/stoned/whatever nonsense at a reasonable distance.. I think that if this article wanted to have any sort of impact on anyone, it maybe should have told the story of someone in the IT industry who, altho brilliant, is now manning some crap win95 phone desk somewhere because of a felony possession charge.
Said person now gets to spend one day a month for the next, oh, 10 years peeing in a cup and telling her PO how much she likes her job.
And, never, ever, will she get a nice, comfy corporate desk job.
i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
WTF??!!
The poster above just told you how content and happy he was in his life and you call that being mediocre? You somehow feel empowered to sit in judgement on his definition of success?? It makes absolutely no difference how much money he makes, how many cars he drives...what in the hell gives you the right to call his life mediocre?
Just what the hell is your problem?
Hush!!
dammit..now everyone's going to want to work here!
Now they all know what John Denver really meant by "Rocky Mountain High"
Speaking as a caffeine addict and infrequent 'wine with formal dinner' drinker:
It strikes me as very strange that hackers would willingly let some chemical burn up their spare brain cycles. I mean, I'll occasionally wake up at four in the morning because I've had a slick code idea, and I want to get it on paper. I've even thought code during the slow parts of sex.
Why would someone who is a professional coder/S.E. or otherwise technophile, willingly give up headspace like that? It's not relaxing (tried pot), it's stupefying, it leaves you in a daze and it makes it hard to concentrate.
Maybe these 'IT professionals' they interviewed were actually full time graphic artists, web designers, or mostly management and marketting people with spare cycles to burn.
Me, I'd rather use idle time than lose it.
If you have to relax that badly, take a nap or read a book.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
The "smoking crack" comments got so bad where I work that we had to negotiate a "crack moratorium" as too many old timers would overhear the comments and start giving us funny looks.
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
> [i] don't do any drugs except caffeine and alcohol
> I don't because drig make me stupid
you just contradicted yourself
you couldn't code for three days after one joint? talk about a light weight. =)
I don't find the article surprising at all considering the founders of Apple and Bill Gates (not sure about Paul) have used illicit drugs including cannabis (marijuana) and LSD.
:-;
I personally have used cannabis and experimented with LSD. I found for me that low doses of LSD was useful for some tasks (at high doses is totally useless since one can't concentrate nor even grasp reality). Cannabis is primarily good for relaxation; certainly far better and safer than alcohol.
Anyways, I beleive that as society becomes more advanced drug use will become more prevalent (and legally tolerated - ie. Ritalin). Drug use dates back to the beginning of civilization (over 10,000 years) and is just a reality of life.
Lastly, I generally feel drug testing is a bad idea and it's no one's damn business what people do with their bodies as long as they don't hurt others directly. And note that if Microsoft or Apple had drug testing policies in place back when they started, the founders would've FAILED and there would be no MAC and no Windows
Ron Bennett
One of my good friends, who is a CS major, tokes up, drops, eats shrooms, and drinks. Sometimes in a combination. Although, I can't say his habits are ones I want to emulate; but hell, I ain't gonna stop him.
This whole thing reeks of a holy war to me.
Everytime he mails me it's "Hey, man I just smoked/drank/dropped..." and goes from there to soemthing like "drugs rule! You should get high!"
*sarcasm*Yeah, I wanna spend a Saturday evening thinking my wall is a TV, or pent up in a dorm room cuz I can't find the door. I forget some of the other things.
"Normalcy" is a myth that The Man uses to help keep the "status quo". But, I agree, normal is anything but.
But what you have said really should be on a person by person basis. What freaks out one person may not affect another. Has nothing to do with occupation or anything.
Yeah, I'm sure many of you saw The Matrix... how did Neo find the White Rabbit?
could that even stand up in court?
People could just go back and say they were trying to stack the pools in some way and having fun.
someone's user account could also be hacked into, left logged in, etc - so would would ever know if the information was correct?
-Jae
And it takes someone with no balls to post that as an AC as well
-Jae
Most programmers I know that do engage in recreational drug use are more likely to smoke ganja and do psychedelics like shrooms and LSD than use coke or meth.
Maybe this is just true of where I work and live (Boulder, CO), which is known for it's high population of stoners.
Given your .sig works, I think I believe you can do 100 hour coding sessions!!
Being able to ingest more toxins than most people is a pretty pathetic thing to brag about. Is that the best
thing about you, the thing you want everyone to remember?
Some "drugs" are toxins, and others are not. Alchohol is a toxin. LSD is not a toxin. Large doses of Alchohol will kill you. Large doses of LSD will make you crazy, but not kill you outright. Large doses of Marijuana (for the sake of completeness, assume it's ingested as food, and not smoked) is not a toxin.
I am offended at your post because you obviously have not experimented with psychedelic drugs (LSD, psylocibe, etc). I think any hacker who has will agree that the comparison is at least somewhat valid.
People with a strong rational consciousness can handle larger doses of LSD, for example, than those who are not practiced at thinking, those lacking mental discipline. Keeping on top of your mind when it is operating in an usual manner is a rough task, but can be very rewarding.
Excessive use of drugs might turn one into the pants-pooping buffon, deftly piloting MS Bob, but it depends on what "drugs" your talking about. I know plenty of men and women with a good 30+ years of regular drug use who are amongst the brightest, mentally sharp people I've ever met. You can say "imagine what they'd have been without the drugs", but nobody really can know that. If drug use had the effects that you describe, it would mean that there are thousands upon thousands of einstien-level geniuses living today, all of which have crippled themselves by drug use.
I doubt it.
This habit of non-drug-users spouting this kind of crap drives me crazy sometimes.
You have GOT to be kidding. Cocaine DESTROYS lives. I destroys careers. It destroys families. It may not be anywhere near as immediate as an alcohol-induced car wreck, but there's no question about what it does to people. Cocaine does no such thing. People do those things. Believe it or not, there are lots of successful career people, family people, even, who have fairly serious cocaine problems. I know of a very successful company or two that was BUILT ON COCAINE. The builders have since gotten off the awful drug, but their cocaine induced drive at the beginning made them sucessful. This is not an endorsement of cocaine, or any other drug for that matter. My point about the company being "built on cocaine" is meant to contrast symbolic's claim that it DESTROYS lives. Action requires decisions. People make decisions, chemicals don't.
A poll idea? I'm no expert on law, but couldn't that kind of data be potential subpoena material in a court of law? I think we'd see quite a few AC's posting on that subject
Brings a whole new meaning to "someone must have been on crack when they coded this"...
Why doesn't someone make a poll to see how many slashdot readers use recreational drugs?
Interesting.
-Schie
I've met very few UNIX hackers who !smokeweed();
Are your experiences different?
A God-shaped bong?
It always strikes me as interesting that the
people who claim to get `high on life!' have
never smoked weed/hash or other recreational
drugs.
Get a clue: no you haven't. The feeling you
think of as being `high', isn't.
By all means, don't take drugs. Just don't
assume you know what's better for me than I
do, you ignorant motherfucker.
I'd be more worried about drug use amongst teenagers than amongst professional programmers, mind you.
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
explained Louise.
Now, it said that Louise was a software developer. Am I the only one who thinks that
software development is an activity which requires a lot of imagination and
creativity?
What, is she on crack or something? Oh, wait...
1. Cocaine
2. Crack
3. Marijuana
4. Caffeine
5. All/Most of the above
6. Substance-free
I don't because drugs make me stupid, for days. Last joint I smoked, I could not code for 3 days. I've never tried coke or anything more intense, but from what I see it looks like it kills your attention span. Great coding assistance, that.
That being said, I'm 30 something and not 20 and indestructible.
Do you 20 something people do drugs to Help your skills and abilities? Does it work? (sarcasm).
-- Perl Hack, Web Hack, SQL Hack, Guitar Hack
Its hydroponically grown and about 10 times stronger than the stuff we did when I was growing up.
Its scary shit. I was fucked up after two hits from one joint. I was wasted for a full day and useless for 3. This stuff has crystals of THC on it large enough to see with the naked eye. Remember Ross Robagliati? Thats the stuff that was in his system. Its TOO strong.
Maybe I sound self righteous but really, ANYTHING that impedes my coding ability is just plain stupid.
As for being a light weight, maybe you outta look at your own habits and decide if fucking yourself up with drugs of any sort is makes you a heavy weight.
My use of caffeine and/or alcohol is probably less than most office workers: 3 to 4 cups of starbucks a day, and maybe 3 glasses of beer 1 day a week. That makes me a lightweight for caffeine and alcohol too.
-- Perl Hack, Web Hack, SQL Hack, Guitar Hack
I know many people who have been recreational daily pot smokers for more than 5 years. They are all employed. About half of them have pretty good paying technical positions (the other half are not computer geeks). By my estimation, none of them are noticeably brain damaged. None of them are particularly lazy, unless you think they're lazy because they sit on their asses smoking weed every day -- AFTER working 50 hours a week, maintaining relationships/marriages and generally taking care of business.
IMHO you can't beat a nice large mug of Java coffee or a pint of Murphys, depending on your mood.
What's wrong with avoiding reality just because it feels good to do so?
You're implying that murdering people is wrong. Was this your intent?
What do you need drugs for to listen to Orbital? It sounds just fine to me without them.
:-)
Einsturzende Neubauten, on the other hand, REQUIRES serious painkillers for the average person to listen to -- at least stuff from 80-83. Their stuff from 90 onwards is actually musical.
BTW, Orbital just doesn't fit the Quake theme that much IMHO. The sound of metal bashing against metal works MUCH better.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Wow man, that's a classic. ROFL.
From the look of E (the WM), though, I wonder sometimes what those people have been smoking...
Finally, what the hell is this doing at 0? Moderate it back up!!! This is great!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
I know lots of people who smoke weed, and are very good programmers/Administrators..etc(and for that matter doctors, lawyers, congressmen, presidents...)There is no proof that Marijuana causes permanent brain damage. And my educated opinion is that alcohol is far more dangerous than pot.
Although this is probably not the right place to demonstrate why I feel marijuana should be legal, your statement is off-base. Sure, I will agree, lots of pothead conversations go similarly to that, but have you ever sat down and listened to a bunch of drunks chit-chatting? It isn't much (if any) better.
Also, someone mentioned BSD users who they've met that smoke pot, I'd bet a dime to a dollar at least some of the BSD creators did it, too. After all, Berkeley is most known for its pot smoking, acid dropping hippy culture, isn't it?
Once I thought I was wrong...I was mistaken.
Programmers don't go gettin wasted in the US like in Europe. Damn Europeans are so wacky!
Corndog
The article was in The Independent, the most pro-recreational drug broadsheet in the UK. (Recently they ran a lengthy, high profile campaign for the legalisation of canabis.) So I'd be wary of classing the article as "...typical anti-drug FUD".
Granted, the article was a bit wishy-washy, with some sketchy evidence from a doctor regarding giving monkeys four doses of ecstacy.
But on the whole I think the article raised a valid issue - for the UK. My experience as a programmer in a lively town in the UK bears testomony to what the article has to say.
I think the situation in the US and elsewhere is different, but the UK has a thriving mainstream drug culture.
Use of canabis in IT jobs here is common place, sure, but the use of "class A's" is prevailant too. Mainly practiced at weekends by recent graduates.
As for myself, I'm growing tired of most of that now, and look for more healthy ways to get my kicks. But I've still had many cases of "presenteeism" in my time!
Swamp
Let's not leave that out.
--
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
My brother did a paper in organic chemistry waayyyyy back when. I, of course, forget the nitty-gritty of it, but the basic gist of it was that gram for gram, caffeine is worse than cocaine.
--
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
weed knocks me completly out. I can't even sit down at the computer. It sure is fun though. Weed is the perfect drug, except for the fact that you get extremly hungry and thirsty. Other than that, what could be better.
The problem with this article is that it reviews industry drug use in one area and attempts to make a generalization across the entire industry.
I'm a computer programmer in Santa Cruz. Surprising fact: about half of the programmers I know here smoke marijuana, use hallucinogens, or both. But that's not a good sample for the industry as a whole; it's too tied up in the side-effects of our local culture.
Same for the UK. It's not possible, yet, to make industry-wide generalizations --- we're too young an industry, and in some sense, too rooted in whatever area we call home, for that to work.
Quake I: My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult, KMFDM, Ministry. Quake II: Well, I put in my Superstar DJ Keoki CD, but really, any Hip-Hop/Techno will do.
Uh, Drugs're bad, 'mkay?
I triied to fill it with Alcohol.
I triied to fill it with sex!
I tried really hard to fill it with sex!
I triied to fill it with Cocaine and heroin and everything you can think of!
(chorus amen!)
But then something appeared to me:
(chorus Preach on, brother!)
The caterpillar D-9 Bulldozer!
(chorus Praise Caterpillah!)
From Snow Crash: "Wait a second. Is this thing a drug, a language, or a religion?" "What's the difference?"
Remember Sangamon's Principle.
yeah, that was the first thing I felt... what a waste. *sigh*
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
Agreed.
Finally some level-headed talk...this the-man-is-trying-to-cramp-our-great-toking-it's-r eally-not-bad-for-you bs was getting pretty deep...
Biology...look into it. It blows my mind how many times I've had conversations with people who honestly believe that none of these drugs do anything adverse to your body. Whew...ignorance...a scary thing.
I like to go walk outdoors on a sunny day, smoke a coupla joints and watch clouds as they go. I don't think that any police- or other man has rigth to say to me that smoking this natural product that grows in trees (bushes, actually) is not rigth.
Cannabis, on earth, has been used for thousands of years. It was criminalized in the 20th century because of _commercial_ reasons. Ever since then very little reliable research material has been let out. Just some time ago publishing of one WHO (not the band) report that stated that cannabis is much less dangerous for humans than tobacco and alcohol, was delayed for ~6 months for reasons I don't know of.
But things are opening up. Ganja smoking is legal in the Netherlands. Germany has somewhat loose policy on it (possession of small quantities is not punished). In Switzerland you can buy it from florists. Sooner or later, I hope, majority of people will realize that they have taken the official lie as a truth for decades.
And, by the way, that Quake you said you were so keen to is considered harmful. It takes control of your mind, reprograms you and makes you a one man nazi death squad. Be careful. Also, role-playing games are very dangerous. They turn you into a satans servant. At least thats what I heard. =)
what the hell is an "IT programmer"? I though IT is kinda separate from actual programming.
plus, how did he get an F1 McLaren? I am not sure if those are street-legal. at least in usa. a lot of sport/special edition cars do not fit the legal bill.
I was thinking of how to intentionally fail my drug test... It would make a good memoir story someday.
I understand the desire to mellow out after a really tough week but I'd rather go without the drugs. Don't think pot affects you much cause it's natural? Hang with a person who has been a daily user for 4-5 years and tell me it doesn't do long term damage to your brain, aside from being perpetually lazy...
I guess each person has his own taste and moral standard and drug use may be "right" for some people but I'm convinced that it takes a toll after enough use, if nothing else you condition your mind and body to need the drugs to relax or need them to work long hours. Just like caffine usage, after a while you can't get out of bed unless there is a ready pot of coffee.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
In boulder, if you sell smack, they will send you to prison for life but if you sell pot or mushrooms you just have to be quite and give the cops a price break... and nobody will ever give you a hard time. On the hill there are some dealers who even put signs up (you know how it works if you've been there, back on pleasant street where the deals go down you can often see a vintage bus with a "kind bud" sign in the back window... )
Also, Boulder was a radical place in the 1960's, it was totally a hippy town. I've been approached at work (the largest employer in Boulder... I won't say any more being as how we're talking about drugs) by 40 year old babyboomers who wanted me to hook them up before.. I'm not really even a user but since I'm younger they expected me to be able to get them some good stuff without having to risk a bad deal. In a lot of towns, pot is something you just sort of grow out of once you get out of college but in Boulder a lot of older people are still users.
From my own perspective, and while I know a lot about the drug culture in Boulder I'm not really a user, pot users are recreational drug users. You work a long hard day writing code and you want to come home and relax so you smoke a bowl and chill out. Coke, meth, ice, etc. users generally aren't rec. users. There are definitley some people who like to snort some coke from time to time just for fun but the industrial programmer types aren't them. I think it is much more habitual usage. If you're a programmer I can't think of any reason why you'd want to sniff coke except to stay up and stay alert for coding, after work I would much rather mellow out with some pot, but that' just me.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
Not sure if they've got a reference for this
particular thing(and all that pot has made me too
lazy to look...), but they do have lots of good
info on the subject...
www.norml.org
If you use drugs, if you're thinking of using drugs, if you don't use drugs, you need to read "Infinite Jest," by David Foster Wallace. No matter whether you feel smug about not using drugs or if you think you can smoke pot with no problem, this book will show you that it ain't that simple.
While I entirely agree with what you're saying about dope (There is no good reason, apart from political, for it not being legalised, especially for medical purposes), I think you're straying somewhat. The article, for the most part, isn't about weed. It's about coke, speed, E's etc.
While I agree that the dangers of these drugs are far less severe than the general public believe, I think saying that they are on a level with dope is dangerous. People (though admittedly quite few) do die as a direct result of taking charlie, but no one has ever died, or indeed severely injured themselves, as a direct result of taking weed.
In case you are wondering, here's my personal drug policy: I drink, and I smoke weed, though preferably without tobaco. I do not smoke cigarettes,since a)I believe them to be more damaging than alcohol or weed, and b)I can't stand the smell it leaves behind. While I don't take speed or E's, this is purely personal choice, rather than because I'm particularly scared of them being dangerous. I enjoy clubbing, especially house clubs, and it seems to me that taking drugs makes you less aware of what's going on around you, and I believe I would enjoy the music less. This idea comes from being clubbing with friends, some of which are on drugs, and some of which aren't.
I believe people should have a free, informed choice about how they use their bodies, and I think that putting coke, E's & speed on the same level as cannabis doesn't help inform people about the (potential) real dangers of drugs.
-Will
I smoke weed and dont use a mac...
I guess there are some people out there that can do everything you can and still find time to have a life and party every once in a while. hmm, go figure?
uh.
wow. i don't do drugs and never have; i guess i'm one of those "high on life" dorks about which you're all speaking. but i really gotta laugh at the self-righteous athletic scumfucks who can't get over the fact that they've got the Straight Edge and some people don't.
i just figured you should know i'm thinking of you in Spandex shorts and a tight t-shirt, leaned over a Nautilus in your basement. and i'm laughing. and you're not.
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
Marijuana : a special report from New Scientist (Mar 1999)
What's your poison: an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp.) documentry series (from the Quantum show) comparing Nicotine, Caffeine, Alcohol, Marijuana and Ecstasy. (Apr 1997)
I think there's definitely a connection.
It's about prying out of the box you're in and changing things at a fundamental level that's not possible for the average computer user on one hand, and the non-drug user on the other. On your linux box, you delve into the source and tweak a feature that always bugged you. Or when you swallow some quality E or a couple hits of acid, you enter a new universe that breaks all the rules by which your average Joe is forced to play.
(And for everyone that's convinced that they can get just as intense an experience without using drugs: you are, quite simply, and with no respect for pros and cons, wrong.)
adum
As an alcoholic who has experience with most of the drugs listed out here, I have to ask anyone who uses on weekends to stop and think.
In my meetings with fellow addicts everyone at one time was a casual user or a social drinker. The thing about intoxicants is their effects mask the problems that are being caused by them.
I believe the drug laws in the United States are insane and contradictory; by and large they should be found unconstitutional. I also know that huge problems are caused by their use.
coding 12 to 14 hours a day indicates a compulsive personality.
My parents smoke... tobacco! I hate it. They can't stop. They *say* they want to. I don't think they have choice. If you use drugs, do you have a choice? Could you quit, lets say now for a week? a month? I ask this question several times so you can think this out. Contradict yourself. Question yourself. I leave this as an excercise for the reader (I love this phrase!).
I don't use vitamins. Why? Do I need it? I hope not. And I don't want to in the future. What if I do? What if in 15 years everyone uses Brain-O-Matic drugs. Makes you smarter. Everyone will use it to be more productive. Business will standardize on it. Do I want that? NO. And I'm not gonna start by taking a simple vitamin now. I'll tell you what I will take: banannas, tomatos, steak, eggs, fruits and vegetables.
Quite frankly, I don't want to be controlled. I like to control. Now look what you got yourself into.
Drugs are bad.
--
The article makes a glaring mistake. They make note of the statistical correlation between drug use - and then they incorrectly state that the drugs must have caused the depression.
This is a bogus inference, unfortunately the majority of the public is not well educated enough to spot it.
There IS a well-known, well-documented link between depression and drug abuse - but it's a classic "chicken and egg" situation - one can just as easily say that people who are already depressed are more likely to go out and take drugs, to feel better. No self-respecting scientist would claim that either case is true - nobody really knows. Man's knowledge of clinical depression, the most common mental illness (which affects up to 20% of people), is still horribly inadequate.
Anyone out there who may be interested in finding out a bit more about clinical depression may want to check out my homepage. (I'm a depressive myself, but I don't do drugs.)
The government isn't saying "all drugs are bad" .. they're saying "all drugs except the ones that heavily feed our economy such as nicotine and alcohol are bad".
Funny cartoon related to this at http://www.perkel.com/politics/issu es/smoke.htm. BTW, anyone here thinking of starting smoking, go read that page first. Some useful info there.
The government isn't saying "all drugs are bad" .. they're saying "all drugs except the ones that heavily feed our economy such as nicotine and alcohol are bad".
Funny cartoon related to this at http://www.perkel.com/politics/issu es/smoke.htm. BTW, anyone here thinking of starting smoking, go read that page first. Some useful info there.
A couple months ago I was hanging out in West LA and met a software designer who apparently worked for a hardware company (go figure). After arguing at length (in the middle of a crowded park) over the importance of microtubules in cells, the stranger began to expound his personal theories on me. He said that Shakespeare was not William and he actually knew who the real Shakespeare was, which sounded like an original idea (since then I've learned that others share his view), and then told me that no civilization would ever have developed without the influence of mind-altering drugs. Alcohol is certainly the necessary drug in America. Alcohol is prohibited under Islam, but he claaims that in Saudi Arabia hashish has the same role (he said drinking alcohol was a capital offense in S.A., which I later learned isn't true.) And Americans smoked pot long before Euros arrived. I'm not sure about China (it had opium, but it wasn't really cultivated until the British arrived), and I'm sure there are many other disproofs. Anyways, he said he'd publish his thoughts in a book one day - I have a feeling it will be quite a long book!
PS: I don't believe any of this. But it's an interesting idea. I personally am disinclined towards any mind-altering substance, including alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, but I suppose I can't really avoid those pesky endorphins (maybe by sitting at the computer all day?).
Glad to see you kicked the habit. That NT stuff can really whack out your brain.
--
--
Think Green... Burn only 100% recycled dinosaurs in you car.
Goodness, that was rather uncalled for. I merely criticized his method. All arguing about the issue of drugs aside, I thought his post was inflamatory and offensive. It pales next to your diatribe, however:
Oh, great, you're an hysterical anti-smoking puritan
Which of my words were you responding to? What did I say to make you think I even argue against smoking? I merely criticized his unqualified dismissal of the other side (It seems to me he also criticizes unqualified opinions).
BTW, Do you argue that there are no dangers to smoking? Do you dare claim that smoking does not cause lung cancer, emphisema, and other miseries? I know people who are dying of these things, and the fact is that they would probably not be if they had not smoked for so much of their lives.
You're a willing (in fact enthusiastic) slave. Congratulations. I'm sure you're proud of that achievement. It's all you'll ever achieve, so you may as well enjoy what you've got.
I struggle to understand what I could have possibly said to provoke this. The only answer I can think of on my own is that I stepped on an open nerve, or happened upon someone who was extremely defensive. This must be what they call flame. I can understand why many people hesitate to post comments on slashdot.
I am open to criticism, and I welcome your response to this. Try to be reasonable though; I've done my best.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
In your rather inflamatory satire you dismiss the opinions of those who argue the dangers of drugs with nothing more than mockery.
:)
Further, to say that having not 'experienced' drugs disqualifies these arguements is tantamount to dismissing the dangers of smoking or drinking and driving by claiming that those who recognize them have never smoked or driven drunk.
My apolgies for spelling errors (When do we get real-time spell-checking?
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Please post a reference for this.
Of course, the couch lock that comes from overripe stuff is not terribly conducive to coding. Weed is far from standardized, and genetics and growing/harvesting practices can make a major difference in the effects of the buzz.
OTOH, this could have been an example of "state-dependent memory". I dunno.
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
Ok, so in the last week we have established:
:)
1. American programmers are lazy 9-to-5 slackers.
2. UK programmers are addicted to drugs.
I guess articles about IT professionals who do a good job and go home to dinner with their spouses and children don't generate many hits.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Those sound like the words of a man who has never smoked dust! Mmmmmm.... dust.
Strange. Most of the geeks I know who do drugs are more into acid than anything else. It's very interesting that the report didn't mention acid .. most recreational meth/E users I know also drop a lot of acid.
From my personal experience, I wouldn't choose to be stoned or drunk while writing code. Though ganja gives me a great creative boost, sitting down and hammering out the logic doesn't last very long before I'm distracted. (I could see how debugging would be made easier, though,as some others have mentioned.) As I work for the family business, the paranoia factor of being high at work would be too great anyway!
As far as alcohol is concerned, it would have little or no effect--up to a point. Much like my pool game.
I never got into speed or coke much, but I could see where some coders would find them useful--though I think the crash wouldn't be worth it.
I certainly can't imagine doing anything in front of the computer on acid!
I think what it boils down to is that everyone has their limits and should know when and where to cross them--it's certainly not up to any judgemental, holier-than-thou busybodies who think they know what's best for us!
Cheers!
[ insert your own witty .sig here ]
methinks you missed the satire...
[ insert your own witty .sig here ]
Well if marijuana (sp?) was legal, none of that would be a problem, yes? They'd grow it on their farms. Same for meth maybe. Anyway, by that argument we should ban plastics, cars, power stations...
Not a drug user, christ I barely even drink...
IMHO:
pot && !harmful && relaxing && fun;
alcohol && !harmful && relaxing if !stupid;
psychadelics && !harmful && mind-expanding;
cocaine && empty_wallet && habit-forming;
crack && cheap && dangerous;
heroin && die "Slowly and Painfully";
meth && fry-brains && habit-forming;
drug_laws && extremely_stupid;
(programmers || sysadmins) && !harmful_drugs && more_sane;
I'm a little surprised that no one's mentioned the other side of the equation -- nootropics (drugs that make you smarter). No one out there on Piracetam, Cognitex, Pregnenolone, Ergoloid Mesylates? Poor children! Come up to where the clear heads are, or just visit http://www.ceri.com (Cognitive Enhancement Research Institute) as a starting place (not affilfited with me, I regret).
---- "When I grow up, I'll know far less"
Now speaking of Enlightenment ...
Grunt. Oink, oink.
...cause IMHO drugs are tools they can be used and abused. and humans are tool using animals so whats the big deal?
nmarshall
#include STD_DISCLAMER.H
R.U. SIRIUS: THE ONLY POSSIBLE RESPONSE
nmarshall
The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
--Colonel Burr 1783
I can't tell if you are stupid or just ingnorant. More than likely just ingnorant (yes there is a difference). I hate to sterotype you but since you just regurtitated every stereotype about drugs you have ever heard (which I might add is meaningless propaganda half the time). This does not surprise me in the least bit since you obivously don't have the ability to think for yourself. Drugs are not an inherent evil, they do not automatically make you brain turn into sludge the moment you take them. A tool is only what you make of it and by itself it is inert, drugs are a tool, for construction or destuction is always up to the user. Drugs can be used to enlight your mind and view problems in a completely new prospective. Not long ago idiotic media re-spewing trash such as yourself used to piss me off, but now I just remind myself that these statements are made by somone who has no conept of what they are talking about and can only go by what the media puts in their scrawny little mind. Computers never made more sense to me than when i was 16 years old, I sat down in front of a computer screen on 5 hits of really good cid and went "Yeah..... It all makes since now".
root@localbrain root>ps ax |grep thoughtd
Yes we have yet another person who claims to know what the hell they are talking about when they have no idea. I get so sick of the "I never smoked it but I have enough information make an assumption about something I know nothing about". That is like someone saying, "I have never written in PEARL but I looked at some source code once and PEARL sucks". Lets just chalk this loser up to the "I can't think for myself so I will just believe whatever T.V. tells me" campaign. You may hate PotHeads but us PotHeads hate idiots like you.
root@localbrain root>ps ax |grep thoughtd
They're after me for... um... reading /. ...
/. may be classified a thing of substance that must be controlled.
Next thing we know
-Shut ut Pinky!
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
I am a Nothinghead and I'm OK...
Thank Vonnegut for your education. There's little time before the last candle burns out.
(We already lost Burroughs)
btw check out www.c3f.com
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
`nuff said
it may just be me (i do live in berkeley, after all), but are there ANY sane coders who DON'T smoke weed? i mean, i've known a few programmers who smoke crack (seriously) and more than a few that do coke, but every last one of them was a weed smoker too.
anyone who says you can't code while stoned obviously doesn't smoke enough buds!
Personally, I can't breath for 3 days after smoking a joint. I cough up blood for about a week after anything involving knives.
Please learn something about marijuana from objective sources. If you do, you'll find out it isn't nearly as bad as you think. It does _not_ cause brain damage, in fact, in cases of head trauma it aids in the protection of brain cells. It has many medicinal uses. While it's true that many losers use pot, the pot didn't make them losers. Marijuana is far less dangerous than any psychoactive drug out there, especially alcohol, and there are reasons why it's illegal that you could realize with some research. Weed just helps you relax, be more creative, and have a good time. No one has ever died from marijuana, and it certainly isn't a toxin, not is it physically addictive (except in cases of extreme abuse). There are about 10 million Americans who smoke marijuana, and you'd be suprised to learn about all the successful people who do.
-- insomniac --
Oh yeah, another thing is you'll find that while programming is harder under the influence, it can help you think of tremendous amount of ideas for your programs and different ways to do things.
-- insomniac --
What's tomorrow's date again? I can't remember.
-- insomniac --
Don't remember the exact URL, but here's a similar study: http://www.commonlink.com/~olsen/NORML/WEEKLY/98-1 0-08.html
-- insomniac --
And alcohol isn't a drug? It's *far* more dangerous than marijuana. I'm not criticizing your drinking, but trying to emphasize that there is no reason marijuana and alcohol shouldn't both be considered drugs.
-- insomniac --
How about "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do," by Peter McWilliams. Then take a look at what the freest government in the world decided to do when it didn't like what he wasy saying.
-- insomniac --
Well it won't be relaxing for everyone. If you try it and are thinking it'll be bad, you probably won't like it. It actually helps some people concentrate better in low doses. But I don't see how you don't understand why people would let a "chemical burn up their spare brain cycles." It's just something fun to do, as are many things that aren't very productive. Most drugs don't kill brain cells. You're right though, I usually can't code while high, but I'm fine when the high is over, and usually come away with some great ideas that I can use.
-- insomniac --
Never said they do, just that in cases of head trauma, it can help prevent further worsening of the condition and increase the patient's chance of coming out alive.
-- insomniac --
i find it hard to believe that the same people who are SO concerned about "the man" having power over the operation of yr computers are perfectly willing to stand and watch, or even advocate, sending people TO JAIL for how they choose to regulate their biochemistry. these people are yr peers, possibly even yr friends and are being locked up for choices which should be personal, not made the whatever senile senator decides is right. maybe instead of frothing at the mouth everytime you think of proprietary software, you should work to help keep innocent otherwise upstanding citizens out of prison.
maybe some of you should choose yr battles more wisely and decide which is more important, you operating system or yr fellow man. as long as there have been civilizations there has been drug use. prohibition doesnt work and stiffer penalties merely compound the problem.
^^^=tHE mARK oF tHE bEAST
hehehe .. amen brother! God bless you!
... just that much of the "just say no"
aside from stress and age, another reason
drug use could be high in tech is that tech
people think independently and reject much
of the govt BS about drugs and am willing
to 'experiment'. I'm not saying drugs are
safe
stuff has no real science behind it.
-Lin
My employer tests at start of employment. When ...
I was told of this, I told HR what an stupid policy this was (esp. in San Francisco) and ineffective drug tests were. The HR lady
dropped her jaw when I admitted to being a pot
smoker. I was still able to pass the stupid
pee test
I figured he killed himself on a race track.
I don't know this car, but F1 used to mean Formula 1. These can never be street legal. But I guess this is maybe an other type-o-car.
And, yeah, what the hell is an "IT programmer"??
Breace.
What a load of crap, this is all about freedom of choice. Which is limited in the US because of non-tolerant supremacists like you.
Compare to Netherlands:
US: Guns legal
NL: Marihuana legal
Make your choice. Who is likely to do you more harm, the guy with the gun or the guy with the pot?
Anyways, I don't want _anybody_ to tell me that I can't do xyz if I don't harm anyone else with it. Even if it harms myself, that's MY CHOICE. And I don't need to listen to other monkey-supremacists on this planet that seem to think they know things better then me.
The sad thing is, in the US the monkeys may throw you in jail if you behave like that....
Btw. Are you that idiot neighbor that's playing that 'Viva La Woman' crap way too loud all the time? I guess I have to delete you know huh?
Breace. And NO, I don't use any drugs but alcohol.
it's called dexin' and it sucks...get some beer or something if you like the drunk feelin'....i'd rather trip...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
how about a new poll? i do: ( )hard drugs (coke, acid, ecstacy etc.) ( )soft drugs (marijuana) ( )alcohol ( )none of the above ( )all of the above
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
doh, should've done preview...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
hehe, true, i drop a lot of acid and i also use ecstacy, and occasionally i mix 'em and candyflip...this isn't a daily thing its just a weekend have fun thing...i don't harm anyone, and i don't see a problem in it. i wish drugs were legal it would be so much easier and less people would die over it...oh well.
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
you forgot ecstacy, special k, angel dust, acid....
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
thats just trees, they leave you with a burnt stupid feeling for days....i hate it...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
good site
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
heh
Ok so programmers use drugs. Or is it more likely that young programmers use drugs? Think about it for a minute - most companies hire fresh talent and fresh talent is usually under 30. Well what age bracket uses the most drugs? People under 30. It's not all that complicated.
With all the stresses envolved in IT this should come as no surprise.
I could see caffine and nicotine being the top ones on a poll. There's quite a bit of drug use at university, but I can't see too many people continuing after. I mean, why risk years of work to get a degree that would be worthless with a criminal record?
The article is about drug users who program, not programmers who use drugs. It sounds like a subtle point, but look where they collected their stories: London clubs, not London offices.
But anything that shows how geeks are shady characters sell, so next week expect an in-depth expose of programmers and pornography... conducted at the local sex toys store.
BTW, did anyone else wonder if the programmers interviewed weren't just pulling the reporter's leg to see how far it would go? "Do I use drugs?"
"Sure! Heroin helps me write code faster!"
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Without getting into the question of whether THC is worse than caffeine, I find your pseudocode disturbing.
:-) Store reopened only after middle-aged yuppies in town threatened a public demonstration/riot in support of store. The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil. Another 12,341,861 examples available in your local newspaper.)
You didn't test for someone incapacitated by pot; you test for someone who tests positive for pot at *any* time. It apparently doesn't matter to you whether they smoked the joint before the big presentation to clients... or they simply attended the "wrong" concert with the "wrong" crowd over the weekend. (Or they ate too many poppy seed bagels too close to a random drug test....)
You didn't offer to help the person overcome any drug abuse problem, you simply wiped them out. Deleted them. Hell, if you used C syntax, I'm sure you would have kill'd them.
*sigh* I guess it's time to write another check to the Drug Policy Foundation. I don't have an opinion on whether drugs are dangerous... but I have absolutely no doubt that your attitude *is* dangerous. The focus should be on abusers (especially since no drug test is 100% reliable) and the emphasis should be on helping them stop. Or do you also fire social drinkers?
(Insert obligatory pointer to drug policy run amok. The popular local sub shop closed down because one employee received *payment* for 'shrooms at work, without knowledge or consent of employer. Even the narcs admitted that no drugs were ever in the store. (Ahem. In this particular case.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Same in New York. Especially us mac types... I need my bong hits at the end of the day(MAC is spelled S-T-R-E-S-S). BTW, is it bad to toke a few bong loads at least once a day? According to everything I've seen so far, no. I just got a raise, and as far as I can tell, nobody I work with even has an inkling of my smoking. Even if they did, fuck em. There's always a job for a programmer, always.
OS of choice: linux (slack)
OS of necessity: win98 (MOUNT ME, MY HD IS SHARED!:)... I guess Im still too hooked on games.
Tom
PS> Any of you guys EVER hear of Subspace before?
If you think drugs are OK for anyone you haven't done your homework. Or you were too stoned to remember how to do your homework. I participated in DEA mission (voluntarily, to get away from my girlfriend:) some years back where I was to help find marajuana in the national forest. Farmers grow it in the national forests so if they get caught they won't lose their homes or other property. They booby-trap the area surrounding their fields, usually with just niose makers (shotgun shells pointed up) to scare people off, somtimes with more malicious means (breeding rats and keeping them trapped in barrels, starving so they will attack when released). My examples are by no means an exhaustive list of techniques used to protect 'farms' on public lands. These are obviously a danger to hikers, campers, nature lovers including the unknowing granola who stumbles onto these traps. The danger doesn't end there. The man we suspected of running this farm drove a new ram truck, paid for in cash. He lived in a 1mil. cabin, paid for in cash. He grossed an estimated 4mil a year on his pot he grew on public lands. He operated no less than two meth labs somewhere in the forest, dumping the chemicals he used for those labs where ever, poisoning the soil, contaminating the groundwater, killing local wild life, and the red phospherous was know to cause several forrest fires. He was also on wellfare. If you think drugs, pot, or the counter culture doesn't affect you, get some fresh air.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
What? Why would we ban plastics cars etc? If your argument is damage to the environment - then you convieniently disregarded the first half of my post. Try not to be selective of the information you choose to argue.
And as far as if it were legal... it's not so what's your point?
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
No permanent damage... Where do pot heads get their information? Pot when smoked inhibits short term memory (so much for creative enhancement effect). In order to get information into long term memory you have to go through short term memory. New England Journal of Science years ago proved that continuous exposer to the effects of pot smoking permanently affects short term memory. If you need more information than that find the websites that deal with memory, retention, how we learn and the electro-chemical balance that improves memory and (if your not stoned or refuse to believe in silly things like research) you will begin to comprehend the pure lunacy of the statement "pot doesn't do permanent damage".
Nothing is fool proof to a determined fool.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
If you think drugs are OK for anyone you haven't done your homework ... If you think drugs, pot, or the counter culture doesn't affect you, get some fresh air.
OK - I'm refering to my first post. Maybe you don't hurt people when you smoke pot, but other people do. If you want to decriminalize it, then do so. So far, the majority of this country doesn't want to legalize pot. They want people who use pot to be punished. They don't want people to drive over the speed limit either, a law I don't understand nor agree with but one I abide by most of the time. When I do speed it is usually not intentional, and if I get caught I'm punished. Such is the way of our country, if a large enough majority wanted to blow up LA, it would happen. You have to live with all the other people in this country, and just because you don't agree with their view point doesn't mean you can ignor the law of our land. Don't like it? Move to Canada. Don't want to move? Change the law. Until one of those two things happen, look at this subject with some perspective, get all the facts, and quit trying to claim that it shouldn't be illegal because it is. Drugs and the counter culture cost public money, lives, and endanger the public. Those are facts. "but those peoples activities cause people to do harmful things to hide their illegal activity!" THEN WHY DO THE ACTIVITY IF IT WILL CAUSE YOU TO DO ILLEGAL OR HARMFUL THINGS DIPSHIT? Sorry about the shouting, but the ends do not justify your "right" to a good time.
It is completely ridiculous to argue that because people do harmful things in order to hide their illegal activities from the law, those activities should be illegal. ** Irrational. What's ridiculous is doing things that you know are against the law and then acting indignant when you are prosecuted for it. Look - I'm all for the freedom to be as stupid as you want to be. Just don't try to blame your crimes (I'm speaking of the harm drug growers, dealers, users cause in one form or another - and don't get all upset becuase I'm generalizing, realize that the drug culture has earned it's bad reputation) on an injust system.
Drugs are linked to criminal behavior because it is criminalised. Duh again. Pedofiles are linked to criminal behavior because pedofilia is criminalised. Murder, tax evasion, theft, vandalism, peeping, indecent exposer, public drunkeness, insert any crime in place of drugs and that statement is true. That's like arguing the sky is blue because it's the color blue. Some laws have a good reason for being in place, some don't. You never had the right to pick which ones you think are important, but you do have the right to try to change them.
Using the pot culture Philosophy of "It doesn't hurt anyone" "why does it matter to you" or "all the evil caused by drugs is a result of unjust law" is bullshit pure and simple. It fits nicely into your world that is quiet, and doesn't seem to harm anyone, but when you look at the social, economic, cultural, and political problems associated with drugs you might find yourself wide eyed with an unreal sense of 'what the hell am I doing'. I was a pot head for years. I went to rallies, smoke outs, even grew my own once. It wasn't until I saw where most of the pot comes from that I realised it is a problem. And the more you learn about cartel's, gangs, and governments, the more you understand about how big a problem drugs are. The only reason alcohol is accepted is that it has been a staple in most every culture for thousands of years. We know the evils of it but won't stop it because of tradition. Other drugs do not have that luxurie, and never will.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
So _that's_ what was in the 'heart-shaped-box'.
cool...
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
I personally would be a little more concerned with the heavy drinking programmers (and sysadmins). I know quite a few pothead programmers and alcoholic sysadmins. The raver crowd tends to burn out too quick, IMHO.
Or, put another way, is this a fad??
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
It is terrible, here in the US, an adult can be
put in prison for consuming a vegetable.
I can go into my backyard and find probably a dozen or so vegetables, that if consumed, will put me in the hospital. I might even find a few that would put me in the morgue. I would be hard pressed to find a vegetable that would put me in prison, without the help of police that is.
Hypocrites!!!
you're silly
drug use != drug abuse
i'm not even gonna mention what i've done. . but none of it has affected me adversly.
it's all about not being an idiot, and having SOME sense when you choose what to do.
you're right, potheads are bad. however, (person->smokesweed() => person==pothead) is false (man, you got me talking in code again)
i'm not advocating drug use as such, just intelligence when talking about it.
Here in Silicon Valley, JOLT and coffee bars
are very much the thing. There's almost a
STARBUCKS every couple blocks and the BURGER
KING in Palo Alto has an expresso bar.
bunch of wealthy Gen X'ers out having a great time and getting wasted on the weekends. This is bad, how?
+ +
Lets just say when they drink & drive or are too stoned to drive and do so anyway forcing some sad mishap costing someone elses life... but hey their wealthy gen X'ers right? That comment was smart.
I personally don't do drugs, but I also don't give a damn whether anyone else does either, as long as they keep their drunken/stoned/whatever nonsense at a reasonable distance..
NIMBY response... Do you pay taxes? How about when these people are too cracked out to get a job and go on welfare? Or break into your home?
I think that if this article wanted to have any sort of impact on anyone, it maybe should have told the story of someone in the IT industry who, altho brilliant, is now manning some crap win95 phone desk somewhere because of a felony possession charge. Said person now gets to spend one day a month for the next, oh, 10 years peeing in a cup and telling her PO how much she likes her job.
Although I agree the article was a bit humorous and bullsh!t at most. Somehow people should start taking a more serious approach to these issues. I've worked in the ad industry and have seen people beyond incapacitated off of drugs, and it isn't a very pretty site, nor is it comfortable working with someone in that state. Who cares? I care if it means that somehow it will affect me and my work habits/routines.
And, never, ever, will she get a nice, comfy corporate desk job.
You should rethink this also... What happens when the person is an owner or CEO... Do you honestly believe he/she/heshe/herhim is going anywhere?
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No enterprise is more likely to succeed than one concealed
from the enemy until it is ripe for execution.
-- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince, 1521
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Thanks for the memories