He may make great films, but talk about arrogance.
Anyone remember the digitally remastered "The Original, One Last Time"(SM) series? The one they released 2 months before adding the exciting 2 minutes of additional footage and selling the new copy to everyone all over again?
Geez...if Go needs traffic that badly, I don't think posting to Slashdot will help, do you??
I'm posting primarily to start discussions and see what people think. That helps me get a better grip on things when I do my job, which only helps produce better stuff for my readers. It's that nifty Net symbiosys thing.
As for experience, I've installed and use Red Hat 5.1 on my testing machine, and have the fried brain cells to prove it -- I write about tech, but I'm not a techie. Can't wait to test out Caldera's release, though.
I just read the whitepaper, and I see a few possible criticisms:
1. The performance numbers suspiciously suggest that the NT box was using more of the 4 available NICs than the linux box.
2. They didn't optimize the kernel for PII compilation.
3. It doesn't look like they created a swap partition for linux-- could this cause the VM subsystem to freak out?
4. Contextual mistake-- they're using (what appears to be) beta drivers for the RAID card. I'd like to see the numbers for the same box without the raid card, just two disks hanging off an ultra-scsi adapter. It seems that they picked a platform with as many linux-compatibility issues as they could find.
One things I noticed was they intend on selling the keywords for high hit subjects. My typical query only gets a few hundred hits, and for speed of results AltaVista is still best.
Katz/Thieme Buzzword bingo
on
Generations
·
· Score: 1
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
We should make a buzzword bingo site somewhere for these guys. The article basically said the same thing 3 or 4 times, in each instance constructed from a different linear combination of buzzwords. This proves at the same time that the set of all bzzwords is not independant, and that Thiem's writing skills are not that great.
If fusion were cold, why would we want it? In all or vast technologies we only can harness heat. Even fission is used for the purpose of boiling water. So if by "cold" fusion we mean giving off less heat, then it's useless. I've always been confused by the term cold fusion, could someone please fill me in as to what it is?
Is this topic really worth to write dozens of postings about? (Guess why we all are posting here...) Well, even if NT was twice faster (which it is not), would anyone matter? linux just started to gain sympathy even in business - some (who said they would not risk using a hacker system some months ago) already say they can't afford proprietary systems like M$ NT or else - now. Another thing is that it's nearly impossible for a bunch of well-paid M$-coders to improve a server app like the thousands of (free) linux coders do.
But did this alleged training teach you to have the cojones to get a real life? Or do you still spend all day locked in your bedroom playing on the computer, playing dungeons and dragons on a friday night, and downloading megs of porno?
Alright! I installed the latest version and the panel-crashing bug seems to be gone. Hooray. Now all you people need to do is address the multi-head concerns and make double clicking on files open them in a text editor by default. I once hacked the gnome mime types file to do this, but unfortunetly lost the changes I made and have been unable to manage it since. However, I can live without a file manager for now, and since my desktop no longer crashes, I would consider this release a positive step forward. Good work GNOME team!
Please show me on an official test NON BIAS that with that entry nt will only use 1gb. Plus you should checkout what they did with NW5 and the interesting ways of configuring hardware.
960meg 4 CPU's. Hmm. I want to know why any web server is going to need (not to say that you don't want it) that much ram, or even 4 processors. If we all set back and think about if you really need that much for your server to perform then you probly are running a pretty crappy os. Granted NT has it's place and GNU/Linux (no flames please) has it's. Personally I would like to see a more down to earth server tested. How many web sites out there run 4 CPU 1gig servers. I say take a poll (running x86 based CPU's) of 50 of the largest site, 50 of the middle sites, 50 of the smallest sites and get what they run on (i.e. HW). They come up with an average take that average and put it together then install your os's of choice with experts from all sides to configure the os's. Then run the tests again. You'll probly see that you end up with Linux winning. From personal experience NT is no easier to configure than Linux maybe get installed initially but not configured. An untrained monkey could install it, but you better have time and experience to make it work more that 2 weeks for you with out a crash. When your lucky you get a whole month.
Not regarding the web server, but I noticed that they set NT's pagefile to 1GB and didn't mention Linux's swap configuration at all. Taking everything that they did to misconfigure Linux it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't perform spectacularly, it's like turning off L1 and L2 cache, turning off shadow ram, and setting 4 wait states to a PentiumPro 200 - it turns into a 386! Stuff like this ought to let people see what Microsoft's game plan really is (assuming they even have one, after reading the Halloween docs (: )
..is that the panel crashes almost all the time when you right click and select "properties" anywhere in the panel. The first time is usually OK, then the second or third time, when you close the properties dialog down it goes, taking X with it. Also, and this one applies to the KDe team as well...remember people with multi-head setups!!! The panel doesn't work when I try to start it on display:0.1, and since you can't have the panel running on more than one monitor at the same time, I can't use the pager on the monitor where I keep all my windows. The file manager is also rather annoying since the mime type capplet doesn't let you create new mime types. Also would it be so hard to have any file type which isn't recognized be opened by a text editor? In case you people haven't noticed (durr...) most *nix people don't store text files with a.txt extension. Has anyone else experienced the panel bug and do they know if this release has fixed it?
I've heard that NT isn't anywhere near ready for Gigabit anything. Reading in NetworkWorld about some network show, they mentioned how they talked with several gigabit ethernet vendors who where very unimpressed with WinNT's throughput - and commented that NT had to be specially modified to sustain 400KBytes/sec. I haven't ever tryed NT with gigabit ethernet, but it doesn't surprise me...
LinuxPPC 5 will be out within the next few weeks. All reports are confirming that it runs beautifully on the B&W G3s, and the iMacs, as well as all previous hardware.
I think there are some hacks to get LinuxPPC 4.1 running on the B&W and I'm certain there are some to get it working on the iMac.
It runs like a champ on my Powerbook 3400. --- Donald Roeber
I supect that the people conducting the test were not proficient linux users/administrators. The Linux installation followed defalut settings except for Kernal automounting. The fact that
"NFS file system support = yes "
makes me wonder how the drives were partitioned (RAID configuration as well)
The test also mentioned
"The Linux kernel limited itself to use only 960 MB of RAM"
Which is a subject dicussed here last week
The NT installation was not default, the Registry was directly changed.
"Server set to maximize throughput for file sharing" "Set registry entries: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es: \NDIS\Parameters\ProcessorAffinityMask=0 Tcpip\Parameters\Tcpwindowsize = 65535"
"Used the affinity tool..."
I do not consider the test valid. The NT installation was tuned (if even slightly) The Linux installation was not.
We need o third party with a though understanding of both OS's to administer an accurate test.
So everyone who listens to those types of music does drugs and the drugs make us murder people? Thats interesting cause then i can argue that the prerpy little momie dressed me i never do anything bad, staright a kids who listen to there one hit wonder backstreet boys or spice girls or whatever have an excuse to go out and rape people ? Well all the songs are about sex so it must make there hormons build up to the point where jacking off does them no good so they go and rape someone.
As for are music tastes ? anybody who listens to billy joel or john tesh or anything equally queer should really think about what your tastes or maybe you'll find they arnt as good as you thought.
As for the loss of human life the world could live without another 14 potential yous. You know small minded, sterotypical, unintelegent, and totaly useless. And like you i have the cajones to post as someone other then "Anonymous Coward"
Let's see here... they were using a ZD program to test SMB performance? To a certain degree NT would have an edge, given MS made the SMB protocol and since it is a Ziff-Davis program. The headline doesn't even specify "fileserver". I'm sure Apache would shread NT as a netserver, performance wise and in up-time.
As far as I know, Lukoil is formaly registered in a small town 200km far from Moscow....and this town looks like a village...so where're the taxes? Definitely not there:) But still, Moscow goverment owns and participates in many companies so they get direct revenues from them and most of these companies are not bankrupts after August 17. The greatest part of financial flows goes through Moscow anyway. Real consumer prices for major products have rised up to 2-3 times, lower than devaluation rate at approx. 4 times. And after all life in Moscow hasn't changed much since the last summer, bear in mind that Moscow is on the 3rd place after NY and Tokyo for the cost of living. Moscow government is finishing to repair(here it means rebuild) the highway around the city which is smth about 130 km, and other stuff spending pretty much. I don't think the city doesn't have money. P.S. Moscow belongs to the number of regions in RF who are sometimes called 'donors' because they give money for the regions who can't get enough taxes.
Ever read "The Marchin Morons"?
on
Killer Asteroid
·
· Score: 1
Posted by Nino the Mind Boggler:
Sounds like you might have. So if this doesn't pan out, we'll just convince them that Venus is the place to be, right?
Apple is supposed to have one of their product announcement conferences on the 19th of this month. Everyone's expecting quicktime 4, which will support live streaming of audio and video. I don't see how real expects to compete with a vastly superior technology, widely deployed, that requires very little server overhead. A mac os x server is needed to serve LIVE video and audio, but prerecorded content can be hosted on ANY server, and it will "just stream". Also, if you want proof, goto http://quicktime.apple.com. Check out the examples of the qdesign codec. Very high quality audio that starts playing almost immediately on a 56K connection, and loads faster than it plays! Also, quicktime supports 3d technologies, interactive panoramas, and (few people are aware) a more or less complete toolbox. Entire cross platform apps can basically be written using the quicktime toolbox, and it's now ported to java. Pretty crazy stuff!!
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
He may make great films, but talk about arrogance.
Anyone remember the digitally remastered "The Original, One Last Time"(SM) series? The one they released 2 months before adding the exciting 2 minutes of additional footage and selling the new copy to everyone all over again?
Posted by resu_xinul:
I agree with you... but real innovation would be porting flavors of Linux to it so it could communicate with my box!
Posted by Mike@ABC:
Geez...if Go needs traffic that badly, I don't think posting to Slashdot will help, do you??
I'm posting primarily to start discussions and see what people think. That helps me get a better grip on things when I do my job, which only helps produce better stuff for my readers. It's that nifty Net symbiosys thing.
As for experience, I've installed and use Red Hat 5.1 on my testing machine, and have the fried brain cells to prove it -- I write about tech, but I'm not a techie. Can't wait to test out Caldera's release, though.
But hey, thanks for your constructive criticism.
Posted by laziz:
I just read the whitepaper, and I see a few possible criticisms:
1. The performance numbers suspiciously suggest that the NT box was using
more of the 4 available NICs than the linux box.
2. They didn't optimize the kernel for PII compilation.
3. It doesn't look like they created a swap partition for linux-- could
this cause the VM subsystem to freak out?
4. Contextual mistake-- they're using (what appears to be) beta drivers for the RAID card. I'd like to see the numbers for the same box without
the raid card, just two disks hanging off an ultra-scsi adapter. It seems
that they picked a platform with as many linux-compatibility issues as
they could find.
Just my $0.02
Posted by The Evil Dwarf from Hell:
One things I noticed was they intend on selling the keywords for high hit subjects. My typical query only gets a few hundred hits, and for speed of results AltaVista is still best.
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
We should make a buzzword bingo site somewhere for these guys. The article basically said the same thing 3 or 4 times, in each instance constructed from a different linear combination of buzzwords. This proves at the same time that the set of all bzzwords is not independant, and that Thiem's writing skills are not that great.
Posted by Roland95:
If fusion were cold, why would we want it? In all or vast technologies we only can harness heat. Even fission is used for the purpose of boiling water. So if by "cold" fusion we mean giving off less heat, then it's useless. I've always been confused by the term cold fusion, could someone please fill me in as to what it is?
Posted by Nr9:
blah, www.hotmail.com is freebsd but its other servers are solaris
Posted by Nr9:
i think mindcraft is part of ms, all they do is advocate ms products
Posted by llogiq:
Is this topic really worth to write dozens of postings about? (Guess why we all are posting here...) Well, even if NT was twice faster (which it is not), would anyone matter?
linux just started to gain sympathy even in business - some (who said they would not risk using a hacker system some months ago) already say they can't afford proprietary systems like M$ NT or else - now.
Another thing is that it's nearly impossible for a bunch of well-paid M$-coders to improve a server app like the thousands of (free) linux coders do.
Posted by Pope Majesty:
But did this alleged training teach you to have the cojones to get a real life? Or do you still spend all day locked in your bedroom playing on the computer, playing dungeons and dragons on a friday night, and downloading megs of porno?
Posted by OGL:
Alright! I installed the latest version and the panel-crashing bug seems to be gone. Hooray. Now all you people need to do is address the multi-head concerns and make double clicking on files open them in a text editor by default. I once hacked the gnome mime types file to do this, but unfortunetly lost the changes I made and have been unable to manage it since. However, I can live without a file manager for now, and since my desktop no longer crashes, I would consider this release a positive step forward. Good work GNOME team!
-W.W.
Posted by mithalas:
Please show me on an official test NON BIAS that with that entry nt will only use 1gb. Plus you should checkout what they did with NW5 and the interesting ways of configuring hardware.
Mithalas
MCSE
Posted by mithalas:
960meg 4 CPU's. Hmm. I want to know why any web server is going to need (not to say that you don't want it) that much ram, or even 4 processors. If we all set back and think about if you really need that much for your server to perform then you probly are running a pretty crappy os. Granted NT has it's place and GNU/Linux (no flames please) has it's. Personally I would like to see a more down to earth server tested. How many web sites out there run 4 CPU 1gig servers. I say take a poll (running x86 based CPU's) of 50 of the largest site, 50 of the middle sites, 50 of the smallest sites and get what they run on (i.e. HW). They come up with an average take that average and put it together then install your os's of choice with experts from all sides to configure the os's. Then run the tests again. You'll probly see that you end up with Linux winning. From personal experience NT is no easier to configure than Linux maybe get installed initially but not configured. An untrained monkey could install it, but you better have time and experience to make it work more that 2 weeks for you with out a crash. When your lucky you get a whole month.
Mithalas
MCSE
Posted by the order of His Majesty:
Not regarding the web server, but I noticed that they set NT's pagefile to 1GB and didn't mention Linux's swap configuration at all.
Taking everything that they did to misconfigure Linux it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't perform spectacularly, it's like turning off L1 and L2 cache, turning off shadow ram, and setting 4 wait states to a PentiumPro 200 - it turns into a 386!
Stuff like this ought to let people see what Microsoft's game plan really is (assuming they even have one, after reading the Halloween docs (: )
Posted by OGL:
:0.1, and since you can't have the panel running on more than one monitor at the same time, I can't use the pager on the monitor where I keep all my windows. The file manager is also rather annoying since the mime type capplet doesn't let you create new mime types. Also would it be so hard to have any file type which isn't recognized be opened by a text editor? In case you people haven't noticed (durr...) most *nix people don't store text files with a .txt extension. Has anyone else experienced the panel bug and do they know if this release has fixed it?
..is that the panel crashes almost all the time when you right click and select "properties" anywhere in the panel. The first time is usually OK, then the second or third time, when you close the properties dialog down it goes, taking X with it. Also, and this one applies to the KDe team as well...remember people with multi-head setups!!! The panel doesn't work when I try to start it on display
-W.W.
Posted by the order of His Majesty:
I've heard that NT isn't anywhere near ready for Gigabit anything. Reading in NetworkWorld about some network show, they mentioned how they talked with several gigabit ethernet vendors who where very unimpressed with WinNT's throughput - and commented that NT had to be specially modified to sustain 400KBytes/sec.
I haven't ever tryed NT with gigabit ethernet, but it doesn't surprise me...
Posted by DonR:
LinuxPPC 5 will be out within the next few weeks. All reports are confirming that it runs beautifully on the B&W G3s, and the iMacs, as well as all previous hardware.
I think there are some hacks to get LinuxPPC 4.1 running on the B&W and I'm certain there are some to get it working on the iMac.
It runs like a champ on my Powerbook 3400.
---
Donald Roeber
Posted by LOTHAR, of the Hill People:
c es:
..."
I supect that the people conducting the test were not proficient linux users/administrators. The Linux installation followed defalut settings except for Kernal automounting. The fact that
"NFS file system support = yes "
makes me wonder how the drives were partitioned (RAID configuration as well)
The test also mentioned
"The Linux kernel limited itself to use only 960 MB of RAM"
Which is a subject dicussed here last week
The NT installation was not default, the Registry was directly changed.
"Server set to maximize throughput for file sharing"
"Set registry entries: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servi
\NDIS\Parameters\ProcessorAffinityMask=0
Tcpip\Parameters\Tcpwindowsize = 65535"
"Used the affinity tool
I do not consider the test valid.
The NT installation was tuned (if even slightly)
The Linux installation was not.
We need o third party with a though understanding of both OS's to administer an accurate test.
Posted by The Orge Captain:
So everyone who listens to those types of music does drugs and the drugs make us murder people? Thats interesting cause then i can argue that the prerpy little momie dressed me i never do anything bad, staright a kids who listen to there one hit wonder backstreet boys or spice girls or whatever have an excuse to go out and rape people ? Well all the songs are about sex so it must make there hormons build up to the point where jacking off does them no good so they go and rape someone.
As for are music tastes ? anybody who listens to billy joel or john tesh or anything equally queer should really think about what your tastes or maybe you'll find they arnt as good as you thought.
As for the loss of human life the world could live without another 14 potential yous. You know small minded, sterotypical, unintelegent, and totaly useless.
And like you i have the cajones to post as someone other then "Anonymous Coward"
Posted by The Chicken of Darkness:
Let's see here... they were using a ZD program to test SMB performance? To a certain degree NT would have an edge, given MS made the SMB protocol and since it is a Ziff-Davis program. The headline doesn't even specify "fileserver". I'm sure Apache would shread NT as a netserver, performance wise and in up-time.
Posted by SkiFF:
:) But still, Moscow goverment owns and participates in many companies so they get direct revenues from them and most of these companies are not bankrupts after August 17. The greatest part of financial flows goes through Moscow anyway. Real consumer prices for major products have rised up to 2-3 times, lower than devaluation rate at approx. 4 times. And after all life in Moscow hasn't changed much since the last summer, bear in mind that Moscow is on the 3rd place after NY and Tokyo for the cost of living. Moscow government is finishing to repair(here it means rebuild) the highway around the city which is smth about 130 km, and other stuff spending pretty much. I don't think the city doesn't have money.
As far as I know, Lukoil is formaly registered in a small town 200km far from Moscow....and this town looks like a village...so where're the taxes? Definitely not there
P.S. Moscow belongs to the number of regions in RF who are sometimes called 'donors' because they give money for the regions who can't get enough taxes.
Posted by Nino the Mind Boggler:
Sounds like you might have. So if this doesn't pan out, we'll just convince them that Venus is the place to be, right?
Posted by Mike@ABC:
Have to say, you hit the nail on the head. Would that others would learn from your insights...!
Posted by spacepig:
Apple is supposed to have one of their product announcement conferences on the 19th of this month. Everyone's expecting quicktime 4, which will support live streaming of audio and video. I don't see how real expects to compete with a vastly superior technology, widely deployed, that requires very little server overhead. A mac os x server is needed to serve LIVE video and audio, but prerecorded content can be hosted on ANY server, and it will "just stream". Also, if you want proof, goto http://quicktime.apple.com. Check out the examples of the qdesign codec. Very high quality audio that starts playing almost immediately on a 56K connection, and loads faster than it plays! Also, quicktime supports 3d technologies, interactive panoramas, and (few people are aware) a more or less complete toolbox. Entire cross platform apps can basically be written using the quicktime toolbox, and it's now ported to java. Pretty crazy stuff!!