2) So what? The original poster was claiming to be able to calculate the total brain capacity based on the input bitrate. We've proven that bitrate invalid. It doesn't matter that it may be short term only. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
The difference is this AC. Posting as an AC allows you to hide in amongst others who refuse to tie their posts to a name. Even though one would have to do a little work to find out my given name all of my posts are attributable to me.
>>I think it is going too far to say "Agents of government (all of them) will routinely violate or circumvent (but usually the former) domestic and international law if they believe that it serves their purpose." It happens, true, that was a prety good list, but is usually not routine, and frequently there are negative repercusions, especialy in the most grievous cases.
I guess that I could have been clearer. when I said all of them I meant agents of all governments, not all agents of government.
>>No mater the prevelance of violation (we seem to disagree there) it is still fruitful to have the laws in place to define the rules. They deter more than you think, and when they don't there is a chance they can be enforced. You can't enforce a law that wasn't passed.
It's still a paper tiger. To be of any real consequence there must be STRONG pentalies and they must be evenly applied. Any government agent who abuses their power should be subject to either life inprisonment or execution. THAT would deter abuses more than a million new weak laws that never get invoked.
He was killed by a bomb as he spoke on his cell phone. Russian technology would have been eble to pinpoint him within 5 minutes. They zeroed in on him in less than that, only this government can do that.
In Kurzweil's (sp?) recent book, Age of Spiritual Machines, the author tries to set up layman's comparisons between organic brains and computer complexity. He focuses on connectivity/dendrites not storage capacity per se, using examples such as: a computer as complex as a bug's brain, a computer as complex as a rat's brain.
Basic theme of the book is that as tech complexity increases, the machines can act more and more like organic systems, down to the point that we will have issues around the machines being conscious.
You can't really compare the brain's capacity in terms of storage capacity to a harddrive - The amount of storage that we have in the brain is amazing, but the access is somewhat faulty. (I liked the comment someone had about needing a defragger for the brain!)
Think of it this way - the brain processes sound, sight, smell, touch and taste in real time - sometimes it saves the experience to easily accessed memory in one or all of the senses and sometimes it doesn't. If you digitized all the sight and sound information the brain processes in one day alone it would be more than enough to fill any commercially available harddrive. Then, what about free-flowing thought? How would you digitize that?
The brain is also a real-time processor as well as storage facility - so imagine the MHz needed to process the things that the brain does. And the bandwidth - to process all five senses at once we'd have to imagine a processor that handles way more than 64 - 128 bits per cycle.
What I'd really like is for someone to come up with a backup device for the brain...
Remember the part about people with photographic memory? They can look at your book page and store the entire thing in 3 seconds. Let's say 1K for the entire page (of text) div 3 is 300 bit/s. Already 3 times faster than your estimate.
I don't know if photographic memory has ever been tested for storage speed, but I doubt that 1 page of text in 3 seconds is even close to the maximum. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
If you use steganography along with encryption (or even by itself) there's no way to know there's even data there, let alone block it. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Surely that's a typo. I know *I* have more bandwidth than that. Heck, I've got more than that for audio alone.
Think about it: Human speech doesn't sound natural on playback unless it's around 44kHz. That's 44 THOUSAND cycles per second. Of course, we're just talking processing so far, but people with "photographic" memory can store this information perfectly which means fast storage capacity.
As for the 20 questions proof: This assumes that the item is randomly chosen. It also assumes that the person choosing picks a specific object that they have stored rather than a general class. ("I'm thinking of the third flowerpot from the left in the workshed behind my mother's house"). -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Slightly off-topic, but not much. Major rant ahead.
It's good to see eased crypto export controls, but the portion about forbidding the gov't from forcing people to decrypt data is a joke.
It's not like our government obeys it's own laws or anything. In the 1960's-1970's the FBI used illegal measured to bring down the Black Panther Party. There are rules against shooting unarmed people, but that didn't stop FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi from shooting Vicky Weaver inthe face while she held her infant daughter(musta been one of those fully automatic assault babies). It's illegal for the US military to engage in domestic law enforcement, but that didn't stop the FBI and BATF from filing bogus charges to get through a loophole in the law to get the US Special forces to torture and barbecue babies in Waco Texas.
This government also inturned AMERICAL CITIZENS for doing nothing more that being 1/4 Japanese. This government exposed mentally retarded people to radioactive substances just to watch them react. This government gave LSD to men in it's armed forces to gauge how well it could be used to interrogate prisoners. This government let men die from syphillis, while lying about giving them treatment, just to gain information about the progression of the disease. This government assisted the Russians in assassinating the leader of the Chechnian rebels, which is 100% ILLEGAL.
I could go on for paragraphs on this, but I think you all get the point. Agents of government (all of them) will routinely violate or circumvent (but usually the former) domestic and international law if they believe that it serves their purpose. Just because they added a provision forbidding their agents from forcing us to decrypt on demand doesn't mean a thing. It's a paper tiger with no teeth or claws to back itself up.
Do you have proof for this claim (beside saying "Read 'The Emperor's New Mind'")?
And in any case, saying "quantum" doesn't make information theory magically disappear. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
I doubt your grandfather's brain is full. More likely is that he sees fewer and fewer "memorable things" because he's seen so much and it all tends to blur together. If you did something way out of the ordinary like throwing a pie in his face or something I bet he'd remember it. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Here's what you do: Build a module for Apache that auto-encrypts all pages before sending. Build a module in Mozilla that auto-decrypts the result and displays it. Get libraries to install Mozilla (fast, free, standards, etc).
Now filtering is a moot point! -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
What will those wacky guys think up next... At least i can listen to WPRB (Princeton University's Radio Station, the best damn station on the East Coast of North American) at school.
Is there no one programming Pascal any longer? If there were more people using more programming languages we might not have so many occurances of things like buffer overruns and other misc security breaches... IMHO
I oppose censorship on principle which is why I am careful not to make overly specific arguments against it.
For instance, many here are using the argument that "Internet filters block too much" to say that censorship in libraries is bad because it can block "useful" sites. WRONG!
Censorship in libraries is bad PERIOD. Libraries are respositories of information and I, as an adult, should be able to access all of it. If a library decides to link itself to a larger resource (such as the Library of Congress, or the Internet) then I should be able to access all of THAT as well.
Arguments based on content are null and void.
Many respond to this by asking "so how do we keep non-adults away from things like porn?" I have two basic responses:
1) Not my problem. My rights cannot be infringed just because they make it easier for YOUR kids to do something YOU don't like.
2) Nonetheless there are specific solutions for specific situations. For the example of libraries, why not divide the library into children's and adult portions? (many libraries already do) Attach the PCs in the adult area to the live Internet, no filtering. Attach the PCs in the children's area to an Intranet setup by the library/city/local ISP (or to nothing at all). If a child requires real Internet access, the child must be accompanied by a parent or guardian. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
If you oppose net censorship, look into the Electronic Freedom Foundation's Blue Ribbon Campaign. If you don't get involved on these issues, then there are plenty of other people who are only too happy to take over and get laws passed that support their concerns, not yours.
There's a link to e-thepeople in comment #145... -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
This should come as no surprise to us. How many among us have big heads? How many among us were the "smart people" or the "nerds" way back when. I've observed this all of my life.
When I was born my head was so large that the doctors thought that I was hydrocephalic (water on the brain). They wanted to drill a hole in my head to relieve the pressure. My mother refused to allow it, as time went on, my body grew to match my head. At least for the most part, unless I cut all of my hair off, I can't wear a baseball cap.
Most every highly intelligent person whom I know has a large head. Big heads = big brains (for the most part).
I'm a Tivoli Enterprise Consultant, and the Linux version of Framework already exists. However, it will not be released until Tivoli has a proper support division setup to support Linux. Linux will however be a supported Endpoint very soon regardless of when the Framework part comes out, also - using common sense, when Framework for Linux is released, Linux will then also be - a managed node.
nice post and all, but its hardly a rumour, I've see the Tivoli Framework for Linux myself.
You drive on roads, walk on sidewalks, sit in parks and attend public schools that aren't mandated by the Constitution either. Why do I have to pay for you to do THAT?
Because it furthers the public good that there be publicly funded and owned resources.
And the only way to be fair with these resources is allow them to everyone for whatever use they see fit (as long as the resource is not depleted/destroyed or reduced for others by that use).
No one is arguing that libraries should setup special "Nude Nude Nude" stations. But we are arguing that putting restrictions on content is inherently wrong because these resources are publicly owned--so the usage is up to the individual.
Instead of blocking MY use of the libraries connection to the Internet, why don't YOU keep an eye on your kids at the library or better yet, keep them at home watching Barney? -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Example: I walk into the house and find my wife in bed with another man. Well, I want to kill him, naturally. Perfectly understandable. But wrong and illegal. -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
By network, I meant network programs like Rush or Dr. Laura or anything like that. If you're listening to one of those programs and drive out of the area, it finds a new local station carrying the same program.
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
1) You don't think so. Any proof?
2) So what? The original poster was claiming to be able to calculate the total brain capacity based on the input bitrate. We've proven that bitrate invalid. It doesn't matter that it may be short term only.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
The difference is this AC. Posting as an AC allows you to hide in amongst others who refuse to tie their posts to a name. Even though one would have to do a little work to find out my given name all of my posts are attributable to me.
LK
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>I think it is going too far to say "Agents of government (all of them) will routinely violate or circumvent (but usually the former) domestic and international law if they believe that it serves their purpose." It happens, true, that was a prety good list, but is usually not routine, and frequently there are negative repercusions, especialy in the most grievous cases.
I guess that I could have been clearer. when I said all of them I meant agents of all governments, not all agents of government.
>>No mater the prevelance of violation (we seem to disagree there) it is still fruitful to have the laws in place to define the rules. They deter more than you think, and when they don't there is a chance they can be enforced. You can't enforce a law that wasn't passed.
It's still a paper tiger. To be of any real consequence there must be STRONG pentalies and they must be evenly applied. Any government agent who abuses their power should be subject to either life inprisonment or execution. THAT would deter abuses more than a million new weak laws that never get invoked.
LK
LK
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
"On the inside" on the discovery channel.
He was killed by a bomb as he spoke on his cell phone. Russian technology would have been eble to pinpoint him within 5 minutes. They zeroed in on him in less than that, only this government can do that.
LK
Posted by Mary CW:
In Kurzweil's (sp?) recent book, Age of Spiritual Machines, the author tries to set up layman's comparisons between organic brains and computer complexity. He focuses on connectivity/dendrites not storage capacity per se, using examples such as: a computer as complex as a bug's brain, a computer as complex as a rat's brain.
Basic theme of the book is that as tech complexity increases, the machines can act more and more like organic systems, down to the point that we will have issues around the machines being conscious.
Anyone else who's read the book care to comment?
Posted by polar_bear:
You can't really compare the brain's capacity in terms of storage capacity to a harddrive - The amount of storage that we have in the brain is amazing, but the access is somewhat faulty. (I liked the comment someone had about needing a defragger for the brain!)
Think of it this way - the brain processes sound, sight, smell, touch and taste in real time - sometimes it saves the experience to easily accessed memory in one or all of the senses and sometimes it doesn't. If you digitized all the sight and sound information the brain processes in one day alone it would be more than enough to fill any commercially available harddrive. Then, what about free-flowing thought? How would you digitize that?
The brain is also a real-time processor as well as storage facility - so imagine the MHz needed to process the things that the brain does. And the bandwidth - to process all five senses at once we'd have to imagine a processor that handles way more than 64 - 128 bits per cycle.
What I'd really like is for someone to come up with a backup device for the brain...
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Remember the part about people with photographic memory? They can look at your book page and store the entire thing in 3 seconds. Let's say 1K for the entire page (of text) div 3 is 300 bit/s. Already 3 times faster than your estimate.
I don't know if photographic memory has ever been tested for storage speed, but I doubt that 1 page of text in 3 seconds is even close to the maximum.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
If you use steganography along with encryption (or even by itself) there's no way to know there's even data there, let alone block it.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Surely that's a typo. I know *I* have more bandwidth than that. Heck, I've got more than that for audio alone.
Think about it: Human speech doesn't sound natural on playback unless it's around 44kHz. That's 44 THOUSAND cycles per second. Of course, we're just talking processing so far, but people with "photographic" memory can store this information perfectly which means fast storage capacity.
As for the 20 questions proof: This assumes that the item is randomly chosen. It also assumes that the person choosing picks a specific object that they have stored rather than a general class. ("I'm thinking of the third flowerpot from the left in the workshed behind my mother's house").
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
Slightly off-topic, but not much. Major rant ahead.
It's good to see eased crypto export controls, but the portion about forbidding the gov't from forcing people to decrypt data is a joke.
It's not like our government obeys it's own laws or anything. In the 1960's-1970's the FBI used illegal measured to bring down the Black Panther Party. There are rules against shooting unarmed people, but that didn't stop FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi from shooting Vicky Weaver inthe face while she held her infant daughter(musta been one of those fully automatic assault babies). It's illegal for the US military to engage in domestic law enforcement, but that didn't stop the FBI and BATF from filing bogus charges to get through a loophole in the law to get the US Special forces to torture and barbecue babies in Waco Texas.
This government also inturned AMERICAL CITIZENS for doing nothing more that being 1/4 Japanese. This government exposed mentally retarded people to radioactive substances just to watch them react. This government gave LSD to men in it's armed forces to gauge how well it could be used to interrogate prisoners. This government let men die from syphillis, while lying about giving them treatment, just to gain information about the progression of the disease. This government assisted the Russians in assassinating the leader of the Chechnian rebels, which is 100% ILLEGAL.
I could go on for paragraphs on this, but I think you all get the point. Agents of government (all of them) will routinely violate or circumvent (but usually the former) domestic and international law if they believe that it serves their purpose. Just because they added a provision forbidding their agents from forcing us to decrypt on demand doesn't mean a thing. It's a paper tiger with no teeth or claws to back itself up.
LK
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Do you have proof for this claim (beside saying "Read 'The Emperor's New Mind'")?
And in any case, saying "quantum" doesn't make information theory magically disappear.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I doubt your grandfather's brain is full. More likely is that he sees fewer and fewer "memorable things" because he's seen so much and it all tends to blur together. If you did something way out of the ordinary like throwing a pie in his face or something I bet he'd remember it.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
No gov't can force a decrypt? Perfect!
Here's what you do: Build a module for Apache that auto-encrypts all pages before sending. Build a module in Mozilla that auto-decrypts the result and displays it. Get libraries to install Mozilla (fast, free, standards, etc).
Now filtering is a moot point!
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Pushkin:
What will those wacky guys think up next... At least i can listen to WPRB (Princeton University's Radio Station, the best damn station on the East Coast of North American) at school.
Posted by the order of His Majesty:
Is there no one programming Pascal any longer?
If there were more people using more programming languages we might not have so many occurances of things like buffer overruns and other misc security breaches... IMHO
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I oppose censorship on principle which is why I am careful not to make overly specific arguments against it.
For instance, many here are using the argument that "Internet filters block too much" to say that censorship in libraries is bad because it can block "useful" sites. WRONG!
Censorship in libraries is bad PERIOD. Libraries are respositories of information and I, as an adult, should be able to access all of it. If a library decides to link itself to a larger resource (such as the Library of Congress, or the Internet) then I should be able to access all of THAT as well.
Arguments based on content are null and void.
Many respond to this by asking "so how do we keep non-adults away from things like porn?" I have two basic responses:
1) Not my problem. My rights cannot be infringed just because they make it easier for YOUR kids to do something YOU don't like.
2) Nonetheless there are specific solutions for specific situations. For the example of libraries, why not divide the library into children's and adult portions? (many libraries already do) Attach the PCs in the adult area to the live Internet, no filtering. Attach the PCs in the children's area to an Intranet setup by the library/city/local ISP (or to nothing at all). If a child requires real Internet access, the child must be accompanied by a parent or guardian.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Largo_3:
Tivoli is about 4 feet of books.
Posted by Mary CW:
If you oppose net censorship, look into the Electronic Freedom Foundation's Blue Ribbon Campaign. If you don't get involved on these issues, then there are plenty of other people who are only too happy to take over and get laws passed that support their concerns, not yours.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
There's a link to e-thepeople in comment #145...
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
This should come as no surprise to us. How many among us have big heads? How many among us were the "smart people" or the "nerds" way back when. I've observed this all of my life.
When I was born my head was so large that the doctors thought that I was hydrocephalic (water on the brain). They wanted to drill a hole in my head to relieve the pressure. My mother refused to allow it, as time went on, my body grew to match my head. At least for the most part, unless I cut all of my hair off, I can't wear a baseball cap.
Most every highly intelligent person whom I know has a large head. Big heads = big brains (for the most part).
LK
Posted by Largo_3:
I'm a Tivoli Enterprise Consultant, and the Linux version of Framework already exists. However, it will not be released until Tivoli has a proper support division setup to support Linux. Linux will however be a supported Endpoint very soon regardless of when the Framework part comes out, also - using common sense, when Framework for Linux is released, Linux will then also be - a managed node.
nice post and all, but its hardly a rumour, I've see the Tivoli Framework for Linux myself.
Rodney Caston
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
To the best of my knowledge all of them are naturally endowed (well, maybe not Anna).
LK
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
You drive on roads, walk on sidewalks, sit in parks and attend public schools that aren't mandated by the Constitution either. Why do I have to pay for you to do THAT?
Because it furthers the public good that there be publicly funded and owned resources.
And the only way to be fair with these resources is allow them to everyone for whatever use they see fit (as long as the resource is not depleted/destroyed or reduced for others by that use).
No one is arguing that libraries should setup special "Nude Nude Nude" stations. But we are arguing that putting restrictions on content is inherently wrong because these resources are publicly owned--so the usage is up to the individual.
Instead of blocking MY use of the libraries connection to the Internet, why don't YOU keep an eye on your kids at the library or better yet, keep them at home watching Barney?
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
But that doesn't make it right or even legal.
Example: I walk into the house and find my wife in bed with another man. Well, I want to kill him, naturally. Perfectly understandable. But wrong and illegal.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Fleeno:
By network, I meant network programs like Rush or Dr. Laura or anything like that. If you're listening to one of those programs and drive out of the area, it finds a new local station carrying the same program.