I agree completely with your comments about SCO Unix. I learned to love Unix on SCO systems, but after getting deeper and deeper and seeing more and more problems with SCO, it was one of the main reasons I left my previous company. I now work on Solaris systems at work and use Linux at home and couldn't be happier with both of them.
For a perfect example of just how 'reliable' SCO Unix was, check out this example. The/etc/group entries on our SCO Unix systems would only allow about 35 username entries for any single group. Any entries after that would not work. What a joke! (If this is some obscure SCO option that my sysadmin could have set higher, I'd be interested to know about it.)
This combined with the fact that my sysadmin couldn't get anything to compile cleanly (or at all) under SCO, led me running screaming from this OS, and into the waiting arms of Linux and Solaris.
Unfortunately, I agree completely. In the "high-tech" jobs I've had it is generally the sales droids who get the big bikkies, trips to exotic (non-customer) locations and other goodies. In general, their attitude towards the technical people who make their lifestyle possible is that we are the dirt beneath their feet.
It is clear to me that as long as technical people are prepared to work as much for the love of the job as for the rewards there is unlikely to be much change. In fact, it occurs to me that there are two types of low paid jobs -- ones that nearly anyone with a brain cell or two can do and ones where people work for the love of the job or out of some sense of duty. Think about it. Teachers, love or duty - you wouldn't put up with the conditions otherwise. Fire, Police, military -- duty (OK there are some who get off on the power trip - nobody's perfect) Technical - love of the job -- the hours are too long and the pay too low (in many cases) for it to be otherwise.
So why do it? Why not take the easy option and become a manager or a sales type. OK, I agree that it does take skill to be a good manager -- but how many good managers have you known? Until the value system rewards technical people better it is unreasonable to expect people to make the irrational decision to go into a technical field in preference to something else where the rewards vs demands are a better ratio.
The gent who writes that column is, in my estimation, not only a good writer, but a solid example of a hacker as well. Unlike many, however, he's decided to take the time and explain all of this high-tech stuff to average folks. And he's darn good at it.
If only the rest of the hackers out there felt the same way toward the mainstream media AND the "clueless" masses, you might find that hacker/cracker misconception start to fade.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
BTW, that particular column is at least six months old, if not older.
Hazelwood refers to school newspapers produced as part of a journalism class. Papers which are strictly co-curricular activities have a great deal more freedom from censorship.
The grounds on which student expression can be censored are broader than they should be but narrower than many administrators believe. Also, there are several states that have passed STATE statutes guaranteeing student expression in student publications. Also, individual boards of education, school committees, or whatever they're called in your state probably have policies IN WRITING about what they can do to control content of student publications.
I second the suggestion to go to the Student Press Center. They are VERY helpful. A second place to turn is the American Civil Liberties Union, specifically the chapter of the ACLU in your state.
I'm the adviser (that IS the correct spelling, BTW) to The Trident, Amity's school newspaper. We are strictly co-curricular, and we have NEVER been censored in the six years I've been adviser.
We HAVE been asked on occasion to allow administrators to read in advance-- when we report on matters where lawsuits are involved. And I do sometimes offer a pre-reading so the admin's aren't blindsided. They support us so we let them know if they'll be taking heat for what we write.
We're doing our centerspread on the Littleton situation. We'll be quoting students who will say that the school is full of people who are cruel and violent. The admin won't like that AT ALL. And I'll probably let the principal read it in advance. But NOT ONE WORD WILL HE CHANGE.
You see, not ALL schools are totally uncaring and unaware of how kids are suffering. We adults can't stop it all from happening, but we can try to intervene, try to provide safe havens, try to love the geeks as well as the preps and the jocks.
We're not totally successful here; I know kids who left here in as much pain as many of you on the list. But we try, dammit... and we have succeeded at least a little bit. And we cry inside for all the kids we've lost or not protected... as well as for all the kids in Littleton and elsewhere-- the shooters as well as the victims, b/c we know all the kids are victims.
>>Well, europeans could say "Without europeans discovering and colonizing North-America your country wouldn't exist at all!"...
Dream on. "Discovering" there were people who knew of North America long before the europeans found out. Some of those people were my ancestors. I'd exist, but I'd probably look different.
I have to agree. It may piss some people off, but I have joined the mainstream. Long story: (feel free to skip to the moral at the end)
I was a scrawny geek who wasn't allowed to play sports in 8th grade. As a freshman in HS, the only team they let me join was the golf team (a real jock sport, eh?) I ate lunch in the Multi-purpose Room, because the cafeteria was too intimidating. I played lots of video games and drank a lot with my two or three friends. By the time I graduated, I was making serious progress. I was getting awards from the Marketing Club, instead of the Continental Math League. I knew lots of people, and they no longer called me "brainchild" In fact, I went to parties and barely ever got dirty looks. I rented a shore house after my senior year with a bunch of barrel-chested jocks.
In college, it began again. I didn't get bid to any fraternities, so I joined up as a founding father of a new house (actually, a returning ex-house) We were not highly accepted by the greek system, but we had a lot of fun. As the years went by, the friends I retained after my fraternity dissolved grew into a social network. By the time I graduated, I was the bouncer at my favorite local bar, and the patrons consisted mostly of my friends and acquaintances. The bar was always packed.
After college, it began again. I took a job selling computer systems for my best friend's fiance's brother-in-law. I moved over to the service side, eventually becoming a LAN administrator fo the US Postal Service. One day, I was drunk at a baseball game, and I got to talking with another guy we were with, and bam - a job!
Now I am a member of the corporate elite. I wear a suit, not slacks and a blazer, everyday. People at my company frown upon non-white dress shirts. I have an expense account, even though I'm not in sales. I receive stock options just for being here, and our company stock has not declined in 80 years. My work is technical, but not geeky.
The moral of this story is this: Although I abhor the mainstream, I have intentionally moved towards it at every opportunity. I have never changed me, just my outward appearance. I avoid talking politics, religion, philosophy, or anything else at work. I do not fit in at my company, yet I am the only one that knows it. I have done all this without lying to myself (unless you count cheating on drug tests)
The reason: After many years as an anarchist, I realized that I didn't have a lot of grassroots support. It came to me that the best way to change a society or culture is: Infiltrate, Acheive, Lead, Change.
What if I could be elected President of the United States? (not likely with my arrest record, but what if?) Of course, only white anglo-saxon protestant frat boys get elected president. (exception: Kennedy was Catholic) So, although I'm a mixed race athiest and I quit my fraternity because I wouldn't sign an anti-drug pledge, I still feel like I'm on the right track.
My friends know who I am, but none of "them" do. My co-workers have no idea that I used to have a white skunk stripe in my hair, and my jeans had so many holes in them that you could see my underwear, and I enjoy slam-dancing at punk shows, and I used to follow the Dead, and I am a political radical, and I once spent six hours throwing bottles at cops during a riot. We don't even barely have democrats at my company, much less anarchist liberatarians.
But god help "them" if someone ever puts me in charge. Will it happen? I don't know, but I've put myself in the best possible position to take advantage of opportunites. Bill Gates, as much as I despise his evil empire, has shown us that geeks can and will take over the world. It's up to us to be in position when the time comes.
I think it's more likely that we'll see banner ads in software and pay a purchase price. In magazines, there are full page ads every other page, but you still pay $5 per issue. I don't mean to seem like a cynic, but the objective for companies is not to make free stuff for us, but to bring in as much money as they can.
Having seen the high quality of Dreamcast games it seems likely that Sony may be concerned about its appearance as well as emulators, all this threatens the success of ps2. In the same way they destroyed N64 by huge price cuts for the console.
No sympathy, no empathy? If my dog went nuts and ate somebody, i'd shoot it. But i'd have some sympathy for it. If the poor old thing was off it's head, then that's a fact of life. My dog has gone crazy. Just one of those things.
Sympathy? Yes. Empathy? Yes. Excuses? Never.
It was wrong. Nothing can it any better. Those boys should fry, not for retribution, but simply because they're too fucked up to live.
As far as I can see what's happening, "High School", (Senior School over in England), is great, if you're not intelligent. For those of us that are intelligent, it's not so great, and lets face it, if you're reading/. on a regulars basis, then you're someone who des something with computers other than play Doom and look and poor GIFs of blurry p0rn. If you read/. you're more likely to be someone who actually knows what they're doing, uses computers at work, and plays Q3Test, but anyway, back to school.
Over achievers are labelled nerds. People who hang around the computers are nerds and geeks (although they do distinguish between the two, the go to the geeks for help. They also were instructed to do anatomically impossible things by us geeks when they did;-)# ). People who didn't believe quite the same things as others were ostriciced, and those that did did really well at some sport were laughed at.
Well, now the tables are turning, and the "jocks" are still stood on the tables, and it's the geeks, nerds, and the others trying their very best to throw the jocks to the floor as hard as they can. And we're succeeding.
Like several other people from my High School, I'm on a year out before university. Near me, there's another couple of geeks doing the same thing as I am. There's also a couple of "jocks". The "jocks" are sitting around, unemployed, and unemployable, trying to get a job and failing. They're not doing well, they're unhappy, and they're just waiting for the year to end. On the other hand, the geeks are all employed, and earning fair amounts.
This means that the geeks will have some money to survive university with, and, when we apply for our first job, we'll have something good on our CV (resume for you Americans) for what we did on our year out. It's something we like doing... it's something we're going to be doing again after university, it's going to give us a higher starting salary than anyone else. Now consider the "jocks" job interviews. "Ok, Mr Sporty-Bloke. You're in serious debt from university, but now you have your degree, and you want to work for us. Tell me, what were you doing in this missing year before university?", "Erm. Nothing.", "Nothing? Hmm. Next!"
This year, I am a Network and Security consultant for an ISP, running Linux almost exclusively. I have to go to.nl (I live in.uk) twice more before September, to do network consultancy. The jocks know this. This is all because of Linux. The jocks know this too. They wish they'd hung around us geeks more.
I ought to say though, there were some geeks not teased and ridiculed by the jocks. Those were the Electronics geeks. The ones with access to 0.2 Farad capaitors. The ones that would push these fully charged cap's onto any exposed flesh on a jock that happened to be annoying him. The ones that the jocks stayed away from. I decided to hang around them.
I dunno... I think the whole of Texas is pretty much screwed as a place for us to set up a "geek commune." I've lived there... in San Antonio, the heart of "Texan nationalism" (Where people sometimes fly the TX flag above the American flag and LOVE to tell you about how Texas is a sovereign power that signs a treaty with the U.S. every so many years... etc. etc. ad nauseum)
Maybe Arizona, New Mexico or Utah? (Nevada was what was left over when everyone else took what they wanted - you'll agree if you ever drive through that place)
I have been holding onto a domain name for a little while, because I wanted to use it for something important. Suddenly I'm wondering if I should devote it to the reform of the American education system, from Kindergarten all the way up through post-grad (including medical school - which essentially hasn't changed much within the last 100-150 years).
If anyone finds this idea interesting, then please E-mail me at: noctavis@irradiated.com
I was blessed (cursed?) with a high level of intelligence, and so found myself bored by most classes that I was required (by law) to attend. Anything I found interesting I would get scores ranging from 90-100% in without trying that hard, usually. But it was so frustrating when I would let the material percolate in my head and ask questions of my teachers... and when they would go back and read the same paragraph again (instead of researching or trying to even approximate an answer) I would simply turn them off ("You have nothing to teach me - POOF! Begone")
Even more aggrivating, even irritating, to me is that most teachers, in their narrow-minded arrogance, would always require you to do things their way (even if you got the right answer) or to INTERPRET poetry or literature (for HELL'S SAKE!!!) the way that they did - "What does this mean?" -:::Student gives an answer::: - "Wrong! It means this!"
Case in point: I had difficulty learning multiplication and division of large numbers from my teachers, and so my father (who was going to be a math professor before he was drafted into the military and became a JAG [military attourney] instead) tried to teach me. Somewhere along the line, while I didn't get what he was trying to show me, it clicked! Suddenly I was able to look at these then-complex problems and pop out answers almost instantaneously.
However, the teachers at my school refused to accept this, and FORCED me to write out my work the long way (even though I was capable of solving problems right in front of their faces AND getting the correct answer most of the time.
Because of their stubborness... their idea that somehow it would be bad to let me continue to perform calculations in the superior manner that I was, I lost that ability. I don't know if I shall ever forgive them for that.
This is only one aspect of it all... certainly, the crazy culture which has developed in American schools needs to change as well.
I am a firm believer that skills such as balancing a checkbook, free-thinking, conflict management, negotiation, tolerance (not the liberal form of the word, where you simply eliminate anything religously, racially, or culturally-oriented from the environment) and various other principles are taught.... but would we risk creating another environment for the alienation of students? I guess it depends upon the people who create and execute policy.
dude I can feel it: check out this profile tell me what ya think:
single male: 28
location: Bronx, NY
interests: heavy rock music ie: pantera, candiria, machine head etc.
skills: computers, military trained, killing, communications, etc.. [fuck I should apply for a job with the CIA..Hmmmmm???]
and yes I'm an equal opportunity hater,
ethnic status: hispanic
relationships status: poor at making friends and great at burning bridges and making enemies
dislikes: people who put thier own skills down, being taken for a fool, and pure people bullshit in general
likes: geek girls, computers hardcore, beer and whiskey, law, finance, marketing, con games, and lots of time on my hands to cook and read books...
would I's? kill people at a school, Hmmmmm, tempting but NO!!
I am a geek at this stage of life and I'm very unstable emotionally and I can't recall have it dandy at the high schools I've attended in my life there have been a few...
as far a reproducing someone like me, I've always been against it becuase it's cruel to pass on the torch of social exclusion, humilation, redicule, that play havoc on the mentle senses..
but I got a geek baby girl on the way and I'll be there to show her the fucken ropes first hand, and trust me she won't take any shit from anybody...
Dude I can feel the kids in Columbine HS, it just so fucken much anybody can take before an unjustifiable hail of gun smoke sparks into this unexpected but slowly and latently systematic retaliation on the part of us geeks erupts, Fuck all Hell breaks lose and I hate to say it but this isn't the end, it's perhaps a new level awareness, a beginning aimed at showing society that a geek can be as dangerous as anyone else...
Yes, high school was a real bitch. But, at least now I can look back and rejoice in the fact that the jocks make a fraction of what I do...at least its a little hope for all the "nerds" still in the educational system you know so well as Hell.
My thoughts are almost identical to what that article states. My bro has been trying to get me to become a regular reader of Slashdot for awhile.... I think I'm hooked now. You're almost afraid to say such things... for exactly the reasons that the article (and its responses) describes. ANY sort of statement to the fact that you might possibly understand or hold the slightest sympathy for the plight of those two dead teenagers brands the author a traitor and possible menace to society. Suddenly the nation has embarked on a hyperparanoid witch-hunt for "whomever is responsible for this" (Funny how they dance around the issue as to whether the parents could be culpable in any way - The USA's left wing likes to point fingers all the time, unless it means taking a position which appears to support family-centered or religious values). I was a military brat, and as such, moved to a new area every few years of my life. I had a *VERY* difficult time fitting into some places, and received very, very poor treatment by my "peers." I really believe that children and young adults can be some of the most cruel people in the world. And I'll even admit that there were times that I wanted to do something - anything - to make the others sit up, take notice and maybe give me a little respect. I was a smart kid too... I had taught myself basic electronics theory by age 14, had collected numerous books that described how to build tasers (stun-guns) or other electronic weapons, and had even designed a few detonators and other devices which would probably have worked (Including a simple "turret" device that would fire bottle-rockets at motion or a heat source within a certain range) Now... that was mainly just for the challenge, and not out of any sense of malice or uber-plan for the elimination of all jocks at my jr.-high school, but any knee-jerk moron could take that as evidence of my nonconformity. Am I a sick person? If you ask any of my friends, coworkers or family, they'll likely tell you that I'm one of the most well-adjusted and rational people they know. Hell... Know what I do for a living? I'm a home-health pediatric nurse that takes care of babies and kids on ventilators, at night. (Geez.. I didn't think I had any paternal instincts until I started taking care of these kiddos) Heh... I can just see a couple of individuals out there cringing and thinking, "I've GOT to find out who this guy is and get him locked up!" Get real! And do you know what? I'm also a COMBAT-nurse in the reserve! I own an AR-15! (The civvy version of the M-16). I play Quake, Myth, Half-Life, paintball and umpteen other "KILLER-games" without any percieved warping to my values. Adversity is something that I learned to deal with at a young age - especially with the help of my parents, who were supportive and loving. Through discussing my feelings with them, and from some of my martial-arts instructors (who advocated talking BEFORE violence), I learned various conflict-management techniques. As a result of my experience, I tend not to be very timid about my opinions when it comes to some issues... especially when I think that something wrong is being done.(Friends call me "The Crusader" after a couple of situations that I took a moral stand on, with employers or other people) Jr. High was the worst for me. Because I was of a certain religious denomination and not 100% pure-bred white, this one kid would spit on my scriptures sometimes (we had a religious group before school). He also would hit me and then run down the hall while yelling insults and epithets. One day I couldn't take it anymore, so when he tried to punch me, I was ready and lashed out. I flipped the kid on the floor and choked him until a teacher came to break it up. We were taken to the principal's office, of course, where we were to see a counsellor. He knew both of us pretty well, and immediately dismissed me while he proceeded to chew the other kid out. (As I said- he knew us both pretty well). After that, suddenly all of the other kids who would give me crap at that Jr. High had a newfound respect (Seriously... some of them clapped me on the back and expressed their APPROVAL!) It made me physically nauseated to learn what it took to gain respect from such people - a lesson learned. Perhaps nonviolence is not *always* the answer? We use smaller, controlled fires to deny huge forest fires the fuel they need to continue their rampage. These kids became a giant tinder-box after awhile. Then again, maybe this analogy simply doesn't hold true? What do YOU think? And don't try to accuse me of having no sympathy for the victims... nothing could be farther from the truth. Especially because I actually KNOW at least one of them! Maybe if these kids would have had some other sort of outlet for their pain and anger, instead of letting it get stronger and stronger while taking its toxic toll upon their souls, things would have turned out differently. I guess we'll really never know... and until something in the pattern of American society (and NOT the alteration of gun laws and other such idiotic symptom-based approaches) changes, then we will continue to endure such tragedies... -Noctavis
If I've learned anything in my life so far, its that communication is the key to success. From experience I've found that learning how to deal with people is one of the most important skills one can ever hope to attain. I once was a quiet, classic geek, who stayed in most of the time to do homework and playvideo games. This was not because I didn't like people, but rather because I was picked on and ridiculed because I was one of the smartest kids in school. This went on until about eight grade when I learned how to talk to and socialize with people. It turned my whole world around. But note, I had many failed attempts at making an entrance into social groups, but I persevered. One of the things I learned from all my failures was to know your audience. Geeks often try to engage conversations with things that they are native to(i.e. Quake, Linux, other computer junk). This is just setting oneself up for failure. You gotta expand your horizons. Start off general, and project a sense of confidence. Even if you are scared as hell, dont let them see that. If you just keep up your composure the real confidence will follow. I dont know if any of this advice will sink in but It's helped me through some hard times and now I have plenty of friends and aquaintances. I just hope to help prevent another tragedy like the one in Colorado. I've felt the pain of exile and know that its hard to work through, but feel that violence is not the answer, for it just further fuels the fire. I also hope to see the media halting is rampage to find a scape goat to blame the trageties on. To go after the net and musicians. If you pick up the new Marilyn Manson album, you might just find that he has some valid points about our society. Hell, all I want is for people to see the whole picture before passing judgement.
Yeop, I would definately say that geek chicks have it harder than us geek guys. When you figure in the fact that chicks have that added mark against them of being an intelligent WOMAN, they literally one up the rest of us geekguys. Dont get me wrong, I love women:-)>, but people in this world are still not equal and from what I've observed, woman often get the raw end of the deal when put up against an equally suited man.
Where they go to (insert college, high school, grad school) how much money they make or who they know to gain a reputible stance in an argument. It makes you look nothing more than foolish. Argument is the merits of the retoric you use not who you know or where you go (maybe).
i know what its like to have people think that you are going to hurt them...well after a friend of mine managed to burn off my eyebrows in an firery explosion when i was 12 people always sorta tried to stay on my good side. and it didnt help that i was always mixing shit up in chemistry to make hydrogen and then lighting the resultant gas. i was a pyro, but i never hurt anyone with that...never even dreamed of planting bombs to injure people. the one bully who did try to pick on me managed to find himself flat on his back with my elbow in his larynx... but i was another harmless kid who everyone thought would blow up their house or something. it was something i liked, cause everyone left me and my friends alone for the most part...we werent dorks but we werent "cool" either... ahh well... im sure you all care...
Could you pick out your indended target from 1300 students. No. Their motivation was not stemmed from insanity. Random is not the word I would use to describe "blacks, jocks, and christians" which happened to be their targets. They actually asked questions, and picked thier targets, otherwise the body count would have been higher. As for proof, there is no proof needed that they were treated poorly as a fringe group in high school. That is the way that all fringe groups are treated in this bigoted setting. (Including homosexuals, "goths", skaters, punks, hippies, druggies...etc).
Oh yeah.....you dropping out shows in your lack of argumentative support. Rhetoric is not your strong suit. Learn to read and write. You have never been the target. Standing up for yourself will only cause the beatings to become more severe. Welcome to the harsh cruel world. Idealistic moron.
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by Condescending Unix User:
/etc/group entries on our SCO Unix systems would only allow about 35 username entries for any single group. Any entries after that would not work. What a joke! (If this is some obscure SCO option that my sysadmin could have set higher, I'd be interested to know about it.)
I agree completely with your comments about SCO Unix. I learned to love Unix on SCO systems, but after getting deeper and deeper and seeing more and more problems with SCO, it was one of the main reasons I left my previous company. I now work on Solaris systems at work and use Linux at home and couldn't be happier with both of them.
For a perfect example of just how 'reliable' SCO Unix was, check out this example. The
This combined with the fact that my sysadmin couldn't get anything to compile cleanly (or at all) under SCO, led me running screaming from this OS, and into the waiting arms of Linux and Solaris.
Posted by Gingrich:
Unfortunately, I agree completely. In the "high-tech" jobs I've had it is generally the sales droids who get the big bikkies, trips to exotic (non-customer) locations and other goodies. In general, their attitude towards the technical people who make their lifestyle possible is that we are the dirt beneath their feet.
It is clear to me that as long as technical people are prepared to work as much for the love of the job as for the rewards there is unlikely to be much change. In fact, it occurs to me that there are two types of low paid jobs -- ones that nearly anyone with a brain cell or two can do and ones where people work for the love of the job or out of some sense of duty. Think about it.
Teachers, love or duty - you wouldn't put up with the conditions otherwise.
Fire, Police, military -- duty (OK there are some who get off on the power trip - nobody's perfect)
Technical - love of the job -- the hours are too long and the pay too low (in many cases) for it to be otherwise.
So why do it? Why not take the easy option and become a manager or a sales type. OK, I agree that it does take skill to be a good manager -- but how many good managers have you known? Until the value system rewards technical people better it is unreasonable to expect people to make the irrational decision to go into a technical field in preference to something else where the rewards vs demands are a better ratio.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
The gent who writes that column is, in my estimation, not only a good writer, but a solid example of a hacker as well. Unlike many, however, he's decided to take the time and explain all of this high-tech stuff to average folks. And he's darn good at it.
If only the rest of the hackers out there felt the same way toward the mainstream media AND the "clueless" masses, you might find that hacker/cracker misconception start to fade.
Of course, that's just my opinion.
BTW, that particular column is at least six months old, if not older.
Posted by she who groks:
Hazelwood refers to school newspapers produced as part of a journalism class. Papers which are strictly co-curricular activities have a great deal more freedom from censorship.
The grounds on which student expression can be censored are broader than they should be but narrower than many administrators believe. Also, there are several states that have passed STATE statutes guaranteeing student expression in student publications. Also, individual boards of education, school committees, or whatever they're called in your state probably have policies IN WRITING about what they can do to control content of student publications.
I second the suggestion to go to the Student Press Center. They are VERY helpful. A second place to turn is the American Civil Liberties Union, specifically the chapter of the ACLU in your state.
I'm the adviser (that IS the correct spelling, BTW) to The Trident, Amity's school newspaper. We are strictly co-curricular, and we have NEVER been censored in the six years I've been adviser.
We HAVE been asked on occasion to allow administrators to read in advance-- when we report on matters where lawsuits are involved. And I do sometimes offer a pre-reading so the admin's aren't blindsided. They support us so we let them know if they'll be taking heat for what we write.
We're doing our centerspread on the Littleton situation. We'll be quoting students who will say that the school is full of people who are cruel and violent. The admin won't like that AT ALL. And I'll probably let the principal read it in advance. But NOT ONE WORD WILL HE CHANGE.
You see, not ALL schools are totally uncaring and unaware of how kids are suffering. We adults can't stop it all from happening, but we can try to intervene, try to provide safe havens, try to love the geeks as well as the preps and the jocks.
We're not totally successful here; I know kids who left here in as much pain as many of you on the list. But we try, dammit... and we have succeeded at least a little bit. And we cry inside for all the kids we've lost or not protected... as well as for all the kids in Littleton and elsewhere-- the shooters as well as the victims, b/c we know all the kids are victims.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>Well, europeans could say "Without europeans discovering and colonizing North-America your country wouldn't exist at all!"...
Dream on. "Discovering" there were people who knew of North America long before the europeans found out. Some of those people were my ancestors. I'd exist, but I'd probably look different.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
>>We should all start weraing black trench-coats.
I've been wearing a black trench coat for 7 years.
It's nothing new to me.
LK
Posted by INFILTRATOR:
I have to agree. It may piss some people off, but I have joined the mainstream. Long story: (feel free to skip to the moral at the end)
I was a scrawny geek who wasn't allowed to play sports in 8th grade. As a freshman in HS, the only team they let me join was the golf team (a real jock sport, eh?) I ate lunch in the Multi-purpose Room, because the cafeteria was too intimidating. I played lots of video games and drank a lot with my two or three friends.
By the time I graduated, I was making serious progress. I was getting awards from the Marketing Club, instead of the Continental Math League. I knew lots of people, and they no longer called me "brainchild" In fact, I went to parties and barely ever got dirty looks. I rented a shore house after my senior year with a bunch of barrel-chested jocks.
In college, it began again. I didn't get bid to any fraternities, so I joined up as a founding father of a new house (actually, a returning ex-house) We were not highly accepted by the greek system, but we had a lot of fun. As the years went by, the friends I retained after my fraternity dissolved grew into a social network. By the time I graduated, I was the bouncer at my favorite local bar, and the patrons consisted mostly of my friends and acquaintances. The bar was always packed.
After college, it began again. I took a job selling computer systems for my best friend's fiance's brother-in-law. I moved over to the service side, eventually becoming a LAN administrator fo the US Postal Service. One day, I was drunk at a baseball game, and I got to talking with another guy we were with, and bam - a job!
Now I am a member of the corporate elite. I wear a suit, not slacks and a blazer, everyday. People at my company frown upon non-white dress shirts. I have an expense account, even though I'm not in sales. I receive stock options just for being here, and our company stock has not declined in 80 years. My work is technical, but not geeky.
The moral of this story is this: Although I abhor the mainstream, I have intentionally moved towards it at every opportunity. I have never changed me, just my outward appearance. I avoid talking politics, religion, philosophy, or anything else at work. I do not fit in at my company, yet I am the only one that knows it. I have done all this without lying to myself (unless you count cheating on drug tests)
The reason: After many years as an anarchist, I realized that I didn't have a lot of grassroots support. It came to me that the best way to change a society or culture is: Infiltrate, Acheive, Lead, Change.
What if I could be elected President of the United States? (not likely with my arrest record, but what if?) Of course, only white anglo-saxon protestant frat boys get elected president. (exception: Kennedy was Catholic) So, although I'm a mixed race athiest and I quit my fraternity because I wouldn't sign an anti-drug pledge, I still feel like I'm on the right track.
My friends know who I am, but none of "them" do. My co-workers have no idea that I used to have a white skunk stripe in my hair, and my jeans had so many holes in them that you could see my underwear, and I enjoy slam-dancing at punk shows, and I used to follow the Dead, and I am a political radical, and I once spent six hours throwing bottles at cops during a riot. We don't even barely have democrats at my company, much less anarchist liberatarians.
But god help "them" if someone ever puts me in charge. Will it happen? I don't know, but I've put myself in the best possible position to take advantage of opportunites. Bill Gates, as much as I despise his evil empire, has shown us that geeks can and will take over the world. It's up to us to be in position when the time comes.
Posted by Ronin_Kitsune:
There is also a utility that lets you see your Linux partition from Windows9* - a useful thing.
It's at: http://www.yipton.demon.co.uk/
Posted by Makurosu:
I think it's more likely that we'll see banner ads in software and pay a purchase price. In magazines, there are full page ads every other page, but you still pay $5 per issue. I don't mean to seem like a cynic, but the objective for companies is not to make free stuff for us, but to bring in as much money as they can.
Posted by Mudokon23:
Having seen the high quality of Dreamcast games it seems likely that Sony may be concerned about its appearance as well as emulators, all this threatens the success of ps2. In the same way they destroyed N64 by huge price cuts for the console.
Posted by sad_old_dog:
No sympathy, no empathy? If my dog went nuts and ate somebody, i'd shoot it. But i'd have some sympathy for it. If the poor old thing was off it's head, then that's a fact of life. My dog has gone crazy. Just one of those things.
Sympathy? Yes. Empathy? Yes. Excuses? Never.
It was wrong. Nothing can it any better. Those boys should fry, not for retribution, but simply because they're too fucked up to live.
Practicality is everything.
As far as I can see what's happening, "High School", (Senior School over in England), is great, if you're not intelligent. For those of us that are intelligent, it's not so great, and lets face it, if you're reading /. on a regulars basis, then you're someone who des something with computers other than play Doom and look and poor GIFs of blurry p0rn. If you read /. you're more likely to be someone who actually knows what they're doing, uses computers at work, and plays Q3Test, but anyway, back to school.
;-)# ). People who didn't believe quite the same things as others were ostriciced, and those that did did really well at some sport were laughed at.
.nl (I live in .uk) twice more before September, to do network consultancy. The jocks know this. This is all because of Linux. The jocks know this too. They wish they'd hung around us geeks more.
Over achievers are labelled nerds. People who hang around the computers are nerds and geeks (although they do distinguish between the two, the go to the geeks for help. They also were instructed to do anatomically impossible things by us geeks when they did
Well, now the tables are turning, and the "jocks" are still stood on the tables, and it's the geeks, nerds, and the others trying their very best to throw the jocks to the floor as hard as they can. And we're succeeding.
Like several other people from my High School, I'm on a year out before university. Near me, there's another couple of geeks doing the same thing as I am. There's also a couple of "jocks". The "jocks" are sitting around, unemployed, and unemployable, trying to get a job and failing. They're not doing well, they're unhappy, and they're just waiting for the year to end. On the other hand, the geeks are all employed, and earning fair amounts.
This means that the geeks will have some money to survive university with, and, when we apply for our first job, we'll have something good on our CV (resume for you Americans) for what we did on our year out. It's something we like doing... it's something we're going to be doing again after university, it's going to give us a higher starting salary than anyone else. Now consider the "jocks" job interviews. "Ok, Mr Sporty-Bloke. You're in serious debt from university, but now you have your degree, and you want to work for us. Tell me, what were you doing in this missing year before university?", "Erm. Nothing.", "Nothing? Hmm. Next!"
This year, I am a Network and Security consultant for an ISP, running Linux almost exclusively. I have to go to
I ought to say though, there were some geeks not teased and ridiculed by the jocks. Those were the Electronics geeks. The ones with access to 0.2 Farad capaitors. The ones that would push these fully charged cap's onto any exposed flesh on a jock that happened to be annoying him. The ones that the jocks stayed away from. I decided to hang around them.
Posted by Noctavis1:
:::Student gives an answer::: - "Wrong! It means this!"
I dunno... I think the whole of Texas is pretty much screwed as a place for us to set up a "geek commune." I've lived there... in San Antonio, the heart of "Texan nationalism" (Where people sometimes fly the TX flag above the American flag and LOVE to tell you about how Texas is a sovereign power that signs a treaty with the U.S. every so many years... etc. etc. ad nauseum)
Maybe Arizona, New Mexico or Utah? (Nevada was what was left over when everyone else took what they wanted - you'll agree if you ever drive through that place)
I have been holding onto a domain name for a little while, because I wanted to use it for something important. Suddenly I'm wondering if I should devote it to the reform of the American education system, from Kindergarten all the way up through post-grad (including medical school - which essentially hasn't changed much within the last 100-150 years).
If anyone finds this idea interesting, then please E-mail me at: noctavis@irradiated.com
I was blessed (cursed?) with a high level of intelligence, and so found myself bored by most classes that I was required (by law) to attend. Anything I found interesting I would get scores ranging from 90-100% in without trying that hard, usually. But it was so frustrating when I would let the material percolate in my head and ask questions of my teachers... and when they would go back and read the same paragraph again (instead of researching or trying to even approximate an answer) I would simply turn them off ("You have nothing to teach me - POOF! Begone")
Even more aggrivating, even irritating, to me is that most teachers, in their narrow-minded arrogance, would always require you to do things their way (even if you got the right answer) or to INTERPRET poetry or literature (for HELL'S SAKE!!!) the way that they did - "What does this mean?" -
Case in point: I had difficulty learning multiplication and division of large numbers from my teachers, and so my father (who was going to be a math professor before he was drafted into the military and became a JAG [military attourney] instead) tried to teach me. Somewhere along the line, while I didn't get what he was trying to show me, it clicked! Suddenly I was able to look at these then-complex problems and pop out answers almost instantaneously.
However, the teachers at my school refused to accept this, and FORCED me to write out my work the long way (even though I was capable of solving problems right in front of their faces AND getting the correct answer most of the time.
Because of their stubborness... their idea that somehow it would be bad to let me continue to perform calculations in the superior manner that I was, I lost that ability. I don't know if I shall ever forgive them for that.
This is only one aspect of it all... certainly, the crazy culture which has developed in American schools needs to change as well.
I am a firm believer that skills such as balancing a checkbook, free-thinking, conflict management, negotiation, tolerance (not the liberal form of the word, where you simply eliminate anything religously, racially, or culturally-oriented from the environment) and various other principles are taught.... but would we risk creating another environment for the alienation of students? I guess it depends upon the people who create and execute policy.
-Noctavis
noctavis@irradiated.com
Posted by kreos:
dude I can feel it: check out this profile tell me what ya think:
single male: 28
location: Bronx, NY
interests: heavy rock music ie: pantera, candiria, machine head etc.
skills: computers, military trained, killing, communications, etc.. [fuck I should apply for a job with the CIA..Hmmmmm???]
and yes I'm an equal opportunity hater,
ethnic status: hispanic
relationships status: poor at making friends and great at burning bridges and making enemies
dislikes: people who put thier own skills down, being taken for a fool, and pure people bullshit in general
likes: geek girls, computers hardcore, beer and whiskey, law, finance, marketing, con games, and lots of time on my hands to cook and read books...
would I's?
kill people at a school, Hmmmmm, tempting but NO!!
I am a geek at this stage of life and I'm very unstable emotionally and I can't recall have it dandy at the high schools I've attended in my life there have been a few...
as far a reproducing someone like me, I've always been against it becuase it's cruel to pass on the torch of social exclusion, humilation, redicule, that play havoc on the mentle senses..
but I got a geek baby girl on the way and I'll be there to show her the fucken ropes first hand, and trust me she won't take any shit from anybody...
Dude I can feel the kids in Columbine HS, it just so fucken much anybody can take before an unjustifiable hail of gun smoke sparks into this unexpected but slowly and latently systematic retaliation on the part of us geeks erupts, Fuck all Hell breaks lose and I hate to say it but this isn't the end, it's perhaps a new level awareness, a beginning aimed at showing society that a geek can be as dangerous as anyone else...
Posted by infamous_cygnus:
Yes, high school was a real bitch. But, at least now I can look back and rejoice in the fact that the jocks make a fraction of what I do...at least its a little hope for all the "nerds" still in the educational system you know so well as Hell.
Posted by Noctavis1:
My thoughts are almost identical to what that article states. My bro has been trying to get me to become a regular reader of Slashdot for awhile.... I think I'm hooked now. You're almost afraid to say such things... for exactly the reasons that the article (and its responses) describes. ANY sort of statement to the fact that you might possibly understand or hold the slightest sympathy for the plight of those two dead teenagers brands the author a traitor and possible menace to society. Suddenly the nation has embarked on a hyperparanoid witch-hunt for "whomever is responsible for this" (Funny how they dance around the issue as to whether the parents could be culpable in any way - The USA's left wing likes to point fingers all the time, unless it means taking a position which appears to support family-centered or religious values). I was a military brat, and as such, moved to a new area every few years of my life. I had a *VERY* difficult time fitting into some places, and received very, very poor treatment by my "peers." I really believe that children and young adults can be some of the most cruel people in the world. And I'll even admit that there were times that I wanted to do something - anything - to make the others sit up, take notice and maybe give me a little respect. I was a smart kid too... I had taught myself basic electronics theory by age 14, had collected numerous books that described how to build tasers (stun-guns) or other electronic weapons, and had even designed a few detonators and other devices which would probably have worked (Including a simple "turret" device that would fire bottle-rockets at motion or a heat source within a certain range) Now... that was mainly just for the challenge, and not out of any sense of malice or uber-plan for the elimination of all jocks at my jr.-high school, but any knee-jerk moron could take that as evidence of my nonconformity. Am I a sick person? If you ask any of my friends, coworkers or family, they'll likely tell you that I'm one of the most well-adjusted and rational people they know. Hell... Know what I do for a living? I'm a home-health pediatric nurse that takes care of babies and kids on ventilators, at night. (Geez.. I didn't think I had any paternal instincts until I started taking care of these kiddos) Heh... I can just see a couple of individuals out there cringing and thinking, "I've GOT to find out who this guy is and get him locked up!" Get real! And do you know what? I'm also a COMBAT-nurse in the reserve! I own an AR-15! (The civvy version of the M-16). I play Quake, Myth, Half-Life, paintball and umpteen other "KILLER-games" without any percieved warping to my values. Adversity is something that I learned to deal with at a young age - especially with the help of my parents, who were supportive and loving. Through discussing my feelings with them, and from some of my martial-arts instructors (who advocated talking BEFORE violence), I learned various conflict-management techniques. As a result of my experience, I tend not to be very timid about my opinions when it comes to some issues... especially when I think that something wrong is being done.(Friends call me "The Crusader" after a couple of situations that I took a moral stand on, with employers or other people) Jr. High was the worst for me. Because I was of a certain religious denomination and not 100% pure-bred white, this one kid would spit on my scriptures sometimes (we had a religious group before school). He also would hit me and then run down the hall while yelling insults and epithets. One day I couldn't take it anymore, so when he tried to punch me, I was ready and lashed out. I flipped the kid on the floor and choked him until a teacher came to break it up. We were taken to the principal's office, of course, where we were to see a counsellor. He knew both of us pretty well, and immediately dismissed me while he proceeded to chew the other kid out. (As I said- he knew us both pretty well). After that, suddenly all of the other kids who would give me crap at that Jr. High had a newfound respect (Seriously... some of them clapped me on the back and expressed their APPROVAL!) It made me physically nauseated to learn what it took to gain respect from such people - a lesson learned. Perhaps nonviolence is not *always* the answer? We use smaller, controlled fires to deny huge forest fires the fuel they need to continue their rampage. These kids became a giant tinder-box after awhile. Then again, maybe this analogy simply doesn't hold true? What do YOU think? And don't try to accuse me of having no sympathy for the victims... nothing could be farther from the truth. Especially because I actually KNOW at least one of them! Maybe if these kids would have had some other sort of outlet for their pain and anger, instead of letting it get stronger and stronger while taking its toxic toll upon their souls, things would have turned out differently. I guess we'll really never know... and until something in the pattern of American society (and NOT the alteration of gun laws and other such idiotic symptom-based approaches) changes, then we will continue to endure such tragedies... -Noctavis
Posted by Meurn:
If I've learned anything in my life so far, its that communication is the key to success. From experience I've found that learning how to deal with people is one of the most important skills one can ever hope to attain. I once was a quiet, classic geek, who stayed in most of the time to do homework and playvideo games. This was not because I didn't like people, but rather because I was picked on and ridiculed because I was one of the smartest kids in school. This went on until about eight grade when I learned how to talk to and socialize with people. It turned my whole world around. But note, I had many failed attempts at making an entrance into social groups, but I persevered. One of the things I learned from all my failures was to know your audience. Geeks often try to engage conversations with things that they are native to(i.e. Quake, Linux, other computer junk). This is just setting oneself up for failure. You gotta expand your horizons. Start off general, and project a sense of confidence. Even if you are scared as hell, dont let them see that. If you just keep up your composure the real confidence will follow.
I dont know if any of this advice will sink in but It's helped me through some hard times and now I have plenty of friends and aquaintances. I just hope to help prevent another tragedy like the one in Colorado. I've felt the pain of exile and know that its hard to work through, but feel that violence is not the answer, for it just further fuels the fire. I also hope to see the media halting is rampage to find a scape goat to blame the trageties on. To go after the net and musicians. If you pick up the new Marilyn Manson album, you might just find that he has some valid points about our society. Hell, all I want is for people to see the whole picture before passing judgement.
Posted by Meurn:
:-)>, but people in this world are still not equal and from what I've observed, woman often get the raw end of the deal when put up against an equally suited man.
Yeop, I would definately say that geek chicks have it harder than us geek guys. When you figure in the fact that chicks have that added mark against them of being an intelligent WOMAN,
they literally one up the rest of us geekguys. Dont get me wrong, I love women
Posted by Pestlence:
Where they go to (insert college, high school, grad school) how much money they make or who they know to gain a reputible stance in an argument. It makes you look nothing more than foolish. Argument is the merits of the retoric you use not who you know or where you go (maybe).
Posted by Assmodeus:
i know what its like to have people think that you are going to hurt them...well after a friend of mine managed to burn off my eyebrows in an firery explosion when i was 12 people always sorta tried to stay on my good side. and it didnt help that i was always mixing shit up in chemistry to make hydrogen and then lighting the resultant gas. i was a pyro, but i never hurt anyone with that...never even dreamed of planting bombs to injure people. the one bully who did try to pick on me managed to find himself flat on his back with my elbow in his larynx... but i was another harmless kid who everyone thought would blow up their house or something. it was something i liked, cause everyone left me and my friends alone for the most part...we werent dorks but we werent "cool" either... ahh well... im sure you all care...
Posted by Pestlence:
Could you pick out your indended target from 1300 students. No. Their motivation was not stemmed from insanity. Random is not the word I would use to describe "blacks, jocks, and christians" which happened to be their targets. They actually asked questions, and picked thier targets, otherwise the body count would have been higher.
As for proof, there is no proof needed that they were treated poorly as a fringe group in high school. That is the way that all fringe groups are treated in this bigoted setting. (Including homosexuals, "goths", skaters, punks, hippies, druggies...etc).
Posted by Pestlence:
Oh yeah.....you dropping out shows in your lack of argumentative support. Rhetoric is not your strong suit. Learn to read and write. You have never been the target. Standing up for yourself will only cause the beatings to become more severe. Welcome to the harsh cruel world. Idealistic moron.
Posted by Pestlence:
You take last...Tune in, turn on, drop out?
Go ahead, keep talking, loser.
Posted by Volkadav:
;^) (mike jackson, class of 96)
Howdy!
Posted by Pestlence:
Loser. Racist. Bigot. Go hang out with Pat Robertson's anti-gay league.