(This is the second time this has been on Slashdot. Let's make it the last.:)
Everyone is saying "Will OS X make Linux go away?" No one is asking "How can Linux and OS X help each other?"
Look at what's happening. UNIX is taking over the PowerPC OS market. AIX, Linux, and Mac OS X are all UNIX-based. Windows NT for PPC stopped being made years ago. That leaves "classic" OS X, and proprietary embedded systems. And you can count SoftWindows, I guess.;-)
OS X and Linux/PPC are both UNIX-based systems running on the same processor. We should take advantage of that, not bemoan the potential fate of Linux.
Not going away,
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I can't count how many times I've been asked something like this now. Nor can I count how many times I've said this:
Linux is not going away.
LinuxPPC isn't going away, either.
Linux ON PowerPC definitely isn't going away.
Take your typical Mac user. They probably got the machine because it was easier for them to use and manage than a Windows box. They may do things like use PageMaker, Photoshop, Kid Pix, or play some games. Surf the net. This is the typical Mac user to me.
When they're done with their Mac, they shut it down, and go into a different room, where they watch what their TiVo just recorded. They don't know it, but they're using Linux. On a PowerPC.
The TiVo is my favorite example of how Linux is slowly, quietly infiltrating our lives, but not being noticed. Most people don't know the TiVo is running Linux/PPC. But it is! OS X coming out will not make the TiVo go away.
Then there's the traditional Linux/PPC markets. OS X will share some of those. OS X runs really well on the G4. But what if you have a lab with 20 Power Mac 9500s? You can't install OS X on them. But you can install LinuxPPC. Buy one CD, install 20 times. You won't be charged 20 times for that.
Use the Beowulf software on the Extras CD, make them a cluster. Will Beowulf be included with OS X? I doubt it.
Just because OS X is coming, Linux is not leaving. And whenever OS X actually does ship, I'll send Steve Jobs a telegram. Maybe it'll say "C:\\ONGRTLNS.";-)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
In my "ideal world," we don't have massive, road-hogging, gas-guzzling SUVs (Expedition, Excursion, newer Exploders, Tahoe, Suburban, any GM models) clogging the roads (and hurting people). We would have a few less roads, and something that has been working really well in Europe for quite a while: passenger trains.
I would _love it_ if I could take a train from Madison, Wisconsin (where I live now, thank goodness) to Chicago, or to Minneapolis. Or to San Francisco. Or NYC.
I can take a _bus_ to Chicago, then get on a train there (I think), but I'm not sure how I'd get from the bus station to the train station. (Taxi? Call one of my Chicago contacts?)
Trains can move more people at once than a car, obviously. They don't take up too much space. The space is made a rail _once_, and you shouldn't have to add much more if it's planned right. (Don't get me started on modern urban "planners"....)
We wouldn't have to stay focused all the time. We could eat, sleep, or be drunk, all of which people do in cars anyway.
The interest in passenger trains seems to be growing, which I'm glad of. I just wish that back in the 1950s, instead of GM doing their best to get rid of trains, trains multplied. I might not be the subject of a Slashdot interview. There are definitely people who would like that.;-) Isn't that worth it?
I'm done ranting now. Have fun.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
It's very worth mentioning that Macs are not the only things that use the PowerPC processor, but they probably are the most well-known. Second place goes to TiVo -- it's a Linux/PPC box!
There are many other things that have PPCs in them. Ford cars apparently do. (Anyone tried hooking up an Ethernet card to a Taurus?;-) However, most of these "other" devices are not anything resembling a traditional computer (ATX form factor logic board, etc.)
BTW, if you thought YDL's installation was a bitch, check out LinuxPPC 2000 Q4. No Mac OS required.:)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
$100,000 fine if it's as bad as Jerk Boy's deed. (0.25 BAC (you're supposed to be nearly unconcious with that much blood in your alchohol stream. er....)
Singapore-style caning is good. Yes.
Exile to Siberia.
Lose all driving priveledges for at least five years. That would be really tough to push, especially in such a car-dependant country as the U.S..
That's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
If you have a question for me, just ask! The only thing that I don't like about answering questions is typing a lot if they require long answers.;-)
I'll be responding to some of the comments here, too. Thanks again! We may not always see the brightest stones in the mine on here, but the ones that we do find are treasures.
Last time: thanks again!
Oh, if you've mailed me, I have about 70 other mails to reply to, so I'll be a bit slow. And I'm going to Macworld Expo on Sunday, so I'll be tied up with that. Please understand if I don't immediately reply. Thanks! (Again^6!;-)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Perhaps I should read the article before commenting (naaah), but I realized one thing: how can an OS that runs only on Apple's G3/G4 hardware outnumber Linux's growing installed base?
My thoughts:
1. OS X will only run on Apple PMAC hardware.
2. Linux can run on devices as small as a cell phone or PDA, or be as transparent as it is in the TiVo, a PowerPC Linux-based appliance.
3. The number of users of all these various devices (cell phones, PDAs, TiVos, etc.) may be hard to count, it may eventually outnumber the number of PMacs.
OS X may outnumber us for a while. But then again, it's not something I'm worried about. So what if it does? That means the PowerPC will get more attention, and everything from BSD to Linux should benefit from that.
A side note: I have played with OS X beta, and was surprised at how slow it was, even on a G4. I figure you can credit the Mach microkernel for that.
BTW, we're giving CmdrTaco the "Comment of the Year" award.;-) Congrats, Rob...
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
No one seems to have noted that you can install the public beta over _any_ existing (installed) RPM-based Linux/PPC distribution. It doesn't have to be LinuxPPC, either. It can be SuSE or some other distro, and the beta will happily install on top of it.
Enjoy!
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I know that Paul Mackerras was a key player in the first port of Linux to the Power Mac platform. Given that the TiVo is another PowerPC Linux box, it's no great surprise to see him working on that, too! Andrew is another known persona in the kernel world, I believe. Just another reason I need to get one... [grin!]
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Back in March, April, and May, I had sugery to reattach my retina after I got hit by that drunk driver. (I had surgery two or three times to do that!) What I'm wondering is, if it gets really bad, and they can't do anything for the retina, will one of these help? And would it help me ride a motorcylce again?;-)
-- jason, who's so looking forward to riding again.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
At the recent Atlanta Linux Showcase, I attended the benefit dinner for the EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation. It had been about eight years since I'd paid much attention to the EFF, but man, if there's ever a time that they should be supported, this is it.
DeCSS is just one of the things they're fighting for (or against). For more info, go to the EFF's web site. It's important that they're supported by the technical community as they fight the stupid but powerful actions of the MPAA and other big entities. I, personally, will be renewing my membership after a far-too-long lapse.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I know I saw this. This further lowers my opinion of the major TV networks. NBC, a major American TV network, is trying to cash in on the current so-called "voyeuristic" TV craze by sending someone up to the Mir space station. I think it said it'll happen in 2001 or 2002. I bet they didn't know about the little fungus problem at the time... which further eliminates my non-existant desire to go to Mir.
Now, if it was a hoax, then I wonder how I saw a commercial for it during the closing ceremony of the Olympics. But it does seem pretty incredible to me that an _American_ company would want to send someone to a floating piece of junk. (No, wait. I said "American." Never mind..)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Whatever drugs you do are your business. But please think before you use, especially if the drug is going to be alchohol. A drunk driver almost took away my left eye, and did give me a bruised spleen, liver, kidney, lungs, and bad brain damage.
I'm better now, but the real kicker is that this could have been prevented. It's easy to make a phone call to get a cab rather than risk driving home. You probably won't be hurt if you do hit someone, but if you do, it'll do terrible, terrible things to them. Please, think before you drink.
Thanks,
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Er, insert the phrase "is faster" between LinuxPPC and Mac OS X server up there. I had a greater than symbol in there, but I should've realized that it's an HTML symbol. My bad. Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
This is from Macworld Magazine's November 1999 review of LinuxPPC 1999 Q3. They did seem to miss the point in general, but found it (or part of it) in this line: >P>
"The graphical interface was crisply responsive, and a informal test of the Apache Web server showed it to be considerably faster than Apache running under Apple's OS X Server."
Now. This is not oS X final or the beta. Apple is probably going to spend a fair bit of money on the theoretical optimizations for the Mach microkernel that can (theoretically) make it faster. But, as far as the public knows, Linux holds the speed record right now.
Macworld Magazine has said that LinuxPPC is a faster server than OS X Server. That is not OS X beta, though I imagine that it's still true, based on what I've read. Microkernel vs. native kernel, basically, plus the GUI is always optional with Linux. (He says as he types this in Gnome and Netscape...)
We may not have the pretty interfaces, and definitely don't have Steve Jobs, but so far, we seem to have one thing they don't: speed.
Cheers,
Jason Haas, LinuxPPC Inc. Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Slashdot Mirror
(This is the second time this has been on Slashdot. Let's make it the last. :)
;-)
Everyone is saying "Will OS X make Linux go away?" No one is asking "How can Linux and OS X help each other?"
Look at what's happening. UNIX is taking over the PowerPC OS market. AIX, Linux, and Mac OS X are all UNIX-based. Windows NT for PPC stopped being made years ago. That leaves "classic" OS X, and proprietary embedded systems. And you can count SoftWindows, I guess.
OS X and Linux/PPC are both UNIX-based systems running on the same processor. We should take advantage of that, not bemoan the potential fate of Linux.
Not going away,
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I can't count how many times I've been asked something like this now. Nor can I count how many times I've said this:
;-)
Linux is not going away.
LinuxPPC isn't going away, either.
Linux ON PowerPC definitely isn't going away.
Take your typical Mac user. They probably got the machine because it was easier for them to use and manage than a Windows box. They may do things like use PageMaker, Photoshop, Kid Pix, or play some games. Surf the net. This is the typical Mac user to me.
When they're done with their Mac, they shut it down, and go into a different room, where they watch what their TiVo just recorded. They don't know it, but they're using Linux. On a PowerPC.
The TiVo is my favorite example of how Linux is slowly, quietly infiltrating our lives, but not being noticed. Most people don't know the TiVo is running Linux/PPC. But it is! OS X coming out will not make the TiVo go away.
Then there's the traditional Linux/PPC markets. OS X will share some of those. OS X runs really well on the G4. But what if you have a lab with 20 Power Mac 9500s? You can't install OS X on them. But you can install LinuxPPC. Buy one CD, install 20 times. You won't be charged 20 times for that.
Use the Beowulf software on the Extras CD, make them a cluster. Will Beowulf be included with OS X? I doubt it.
Just because OS X is coming, Linux is not leaving. And whenever OS X actually does ship, I'll send Steve Jobs a telegram. Maybe it'll say "C:\\ONGRTLNS."
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I just realized: If we hadn't given away 1,000 LPPC 2000 Q4 install CD-ROMs, we wouldn't have known the PBG4 to be compatible. Gotta like that. :)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
The PBG4 has a USB port.
:)
Buy a USB three-button mouse.
Plug it in.
You may have to run mouseconfig or something like that to get it to see all three buttons.
And enjoy.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Let's see here..
:)
1. The new kernel runs much better on newer machines. Have you tried that?
2. The new kernel is part of our new release.
3. The new CD boots fine on all the new machines. The old one didn't work well at all.
4. Video should be better.
5. USB mass storage support has apparently just recently started working.
6. Try the current release before commenting.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Macworld magazine has said that OS X Server is "noticeably slower" than OS X Server. That's pretty firm documentation to me.
It also seems significantly faster than the beta. Yes, it's a beta. But how much faster could they really make it?
We'll still be here, OS X or not.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Heya,
:)
;-)
I'm still healing. But thanks.
When someone asks how I'm doing, I say, "much better, thank you!"
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Jerk Boy is/was a college student at Princeton. I don't know what he was doing in Savannah that day.
And he is caucasian/white.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
In my "ideal world," we don't have massive, road-hogging, gas-guzzling SUVs (Expedition, Excursion, newer Exploders, Tahoe, Suburban, any GM models) clogging the roads (and hurting people). We would have a few less roads, and something that has been working really well in Europe for quite a while: passenger trains.
;-) Isn't that worth it?
I would _love it_ if I could take a train from Madison, Wisconsin (where I live now, thank goodness) to Chicago, or to Minneapolis. Or to San Francisco. Or NYC.
I can take a _bus_ to Chicago, then get on a train there (I think), but I'm not sure how I'd get from the bus station to the train station. (Taxi? Call one of my Chicago contacts?)
Trains can move more people at once than a car, obviously. They don't take up too much space. The space is made a rail _once_, and you shouldn't have to add much more if it's planned right. (Don't get me started on modern urban "planners"....)
We wouldn't have to stay focused all the time. We could eat, sleep, or be drunk, all of which people do in cars anyway.
The interest in passenger trains seems to be growing, which I'm glad of. I just wish that back in the 1950s, instead of GM doing their best to get rid of trains, trains multplied. I might not be the subject of a Slashdot interview. There are definitely people who would like that.
I'm done ranting now. Have fun.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
It's very worth mentioning that Macs are not the only things that use the PowerPC processor, but they probably are the most well-known. Second place goes to TiVo -- it's a Linux/PPC box!
;-) However, most of these "other" devices are not anything resembling a traditional computer (ATX form factor logic board, etc.)
:)
There are many other things that have PPCs in them. Ford cars apparently do. (Anyone tried hooking up an Ethernet card to a Taurus?
BTW, if you thought YDL's installation was a bitch, check out LinuxPPC 2000 Q4. No Mac OS required.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
meheheh.. none taken. ;-)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
That's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Hi all,
;-)
;-)
;-)
Just wanted to say "thanks!". So, thanks!
If you have a question for me, just ask! The only thing that I don't like about answering questions is typing a lot if they require long answers.
I'll be responding to some of the comments here, too. Thanks again! We may not always see the brightest stones in the mine on here, but the ones that we do find are treasures.
Last time: thanks again!
Oh, if you've mailed me, I have about 70 other mails to reply to, so I'll be a bit slow. And I'm going to Macworld Expo on Sunday, so I'll be tied up with that. Please understand if I don't immediately reply. Thanks! (Again^6!
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
A lot has happened in the past few days! We're making the most of the "2000" part of the product's name. ;-)
:-D
As has been noted on here, the LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 ISO images are now available. Look on our FTP mirror list or on LinuxISO.org.
The CD-ROM set (FWB HDT*PE, install, extras, and source) is now available for pre-order. Shipping is scheduled to begin on January 10.
We have changed our subscription policy and lowered the prices on Myth II and Applixware Office.
And, www.linuxppc.ne.jp has gone live. Look for the announcement about the Japanese version of LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 on there.
That's it. Whew!
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Just look at our FTP mirrors. It's also on LinuxISO.org.
:-)
Also, the Macworld Expo is in less than two weeks.
It's not just hype. Please reserve your cynicism.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Perhaps I should read the article before commenting (naaah), but I realized one thing: how can an OS that runs only on Apple's G3/G4 hardware outnumber Linux's growing installed base?
;-) Congrats, Rob...
My thoughts:
1. OS X will only run on Apple PMAC hardware.
2. Linux can run on devices as small as a cell phone or PDA, or be as transparent as it is in the TiVo, a PowerPC Linux-based appliance.
3. The number of users of all these various devices (cell phones, PDAs, TiVos, etc.) may be hard to count, it may eventually outnumber the number of PMacs.
OS X may outnumber us for a while. But then again, it's not something I'm worried about. So what if it does? That means the PowerPC will get more attention, and everything from BSD to Linux should benefit from that.
A side note: I have played with OS X beta, and was surprised at how slow it was, even on a G4. I figure you can credit the Mach microkernel for that.
BTW, we're giving CmdrTaco the "Comment of the Year" award.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
No one seems to have noted that you can install the public beta over _any_ existing (installed) RPM-based Linux/PPC distribution. It doesn't have to be LinuxPPC, either. It can be SuSE or some other distro, and the beta will happily install on top of it.
Enjoy!
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I know that Paul Mackerras was a key player in the first port of Linux to the Power Mac platform. Given that the TiVo is another PowerPC Linux box, it's no great surprise to see him working on that, too! Andrew is another known persona in the kernel world, I believe. Just another reason I need to get one... [grin!]
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Could this help people with detached retinas?
;-)
Back in March, April, and May, I had sugery to reattach my retina after I got hit by that drunk driver. (I had surgery two or three times to do that!) What I'm wondering is, if it gets really bad, and they can't do anything for the retina, will one of these help? And would it help me ride a motorcylce again?
-- jason, who's so looking forward to riding again.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
DeCSS is just one of the things they're fighting for (or against). For more info, go to the EFF's web site. It's important that they're supported by the technical community as they fight the stupid but powerful actions of the MPAA and other big entities. I, personally, will be renewing my membership after a far-too-long lapse.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Now, if it was a hoax, then I wonder how I saw a commercial for it during the closing ceremony of the Olympics. But it does seem pretty incredible to me that an _American_ company would want to send someone to a floating piece of junk. (No, wait. I said "American." Never mind..)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
I'm better now, but the real kicker is that this could have been prevented. It's easy to make a phone call to get a cab rather than risk driving home. You probably won't be hurt if you do hit someone, but if you do, it'll do terrible, terrible things to them. Please, think before you drink.
Thanks,
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Er, insert the phrase "is faster" between LinuxPPC and Mac OS X server up there. I had a greater than symbol in there, but I should've realized that it's an HTML symbol. My bad.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Now. This is not oS X final or the beta. Apple is probably going to spend a fair bit of money on the theoretical optimizations for the Mach microkernel that can (theoretically) make it faster. But, as far as the public knows, Linux holds the speed record right now.
The review is at:
http://macworld.zdnet .co m:80/1999/11/reviews/linuxppc.html
That said, I am not against Mac OS X. I wish it the best of luck. I also would like to sell Linux for the Mac. ;-)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Macworld Magazine has said that LinuxPPC is a faster server than OS X Server. That is not OS X beta, though I imagine that it's still true, based on what I've read. Microkernel vs. native kernel, basically, plus the GUI is always optional with Linux. (He says as he types this in Gnome and Netscape...)
We may not have the pretty interfaces, and definitely don't have Steve Jobs, but so far, we seem to have one thing they don't: speed.
Cheers,
Jason Haas, LinuxPPC Inc.
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.