I don't have a place, I have music and caffeine. If I hear old Crystal Method or Orbital, I immediately think of late nights in the zone with Mountain Dew and Code.
s/Mountain Dew/Dr Pepper/ and I could have written that. "Vegas" is still my go-to music for urgent deadlines.
Some projects are run by arrogant BOFH/RTFM types.
May require administrator training, in the form of self-study or tutorial videos on youtube, or time spent on messageboards.
Interestingly, those are some of the exact same reasons why I dislike proprietary software.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1
Either way you're using a transformation function on the password field that does take case into account.
Except it won't:
> select * from users where username='foo' and password=encrypt('foo', 'salt');
...will return a row if the encrypted version of 'foo' matches any case-insensitive permutation of the encrypted version of the real password. Now, you can rewrite that to match case as other people here have pointed out, but it's insane that the default behavior is to allow sloppy matches. It never would have occurred to me that "=" doesn't really mean "equals" before reading it here.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1
There is no one-comparison-technique-fits-all. We simply need more powerful and friendly comparing operators that can optionally ignore case, ignore white space, etc. And, without requiring duplicating functions on both sides, such as trim(lower(x)) == trim(lower(y)). That's poor conceptual factoring and hurts readability.
I don't see it that way. When I'd revisit that query a year later, I could tell exactly what trim(lower(x)) is doing without memorizing the details of a combinatorially-growing handful of operators (equals, insensitive equals, trim equals, trim insensitive equals, etc.). Add functional indexes (as in PostgreSQL, Oracle, and many others) and you even get excellent performance without the database having to maintain indexes for each of the special operators just in case you might want to use them.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1
And this is why you don't do the string comparison on the database side.
Is there a canonical list of things you only do client side when using MySQL, or is it something you kind of have to discover on your own over the years?
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 0
What version of MySQL did you use? I did some work using MySQL 5 and Hibernate and my queries were case sensitive.
5.0.75. I'm guessing that Hibernate works around that for you.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1
Well it can be case sensitive if that's what you want. You just need to set the collation:
CREATE TABLE foo(bar VARCHAR(10)) CHARACTER SET latin1 COLLATE latin1_bin;
So it's Yet Another Broken MySQL Default that has to be detected and worked around in the application. Nice.
So you're going to uproot your whole system and switch to a different database just because you don't know how your current one works? SMRT
Nope. I upgraded to PostgreSQL most of a decade ago and haven't looked back.
Can anyone give an example of another common modern environment where "=" (or "==" as appropriate) is case insensitive?
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
string comparison using MATCH(row) AGAINST ('string') is case insensitive.
I know you can match insensitively, but it boggles my mind that it's not the default. I expect "=" to mean "equals", not "closely approximates if you throw away enough information".
As for MySQL, the Oracle benefactors will say: do not worry, my dear people, we will keep it with true love, and gradually let it become deprecatingly obsolete.
I think that started before Sun even bought it.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1
I disagree. They know what they are, but they've been told that they're unimportant.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Imagine this - I need to grab the physical file for a db or table.... what do I look for?
Imagine this - you'd never, ever want to do that with a production database. What good is a copy of a table file with no context, no foreign key integrity, no transactional integrity, nothing? If you must back up a single table, pg_dump works.
Re:Postgres is looking better than ever
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
Their string comparisons are case sensitive.
OMFG, massive fail for MySQL. I thought you were joking, but you aren't!
mysql> create table foo(bar varchar(10)); mysql> insert into foo (bar) values ('abc'); mysql> select * from foo where bar = 'abc'; +------+ | bar | +------+ | abc | +------+ 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
mysql> select * from foo where bar = 'aBC'; +------+ | bar | +------+ | abc | +------+
Imagine an OS where strcmp() was case insensitive, and where it was used to compare hashed passwords when authenticating users. Realize that base64 is now really base36, and that you're been throwing away approximately half the bits per character in the encoded password, and that your passwords are now about.5^$LENGTH as secure.
Have fun auditing your MySQL-based webapps to make sure that none of them use base64 password encoding coupled with case-insensitive searches!
I read somewhere that one of the reasons medium/high doses of radiation kill you is all the helpful bacteria in your digestive system are killed, leaving you unable to process nutrients.
Well, that and the internal burns, shredded DNA, denatured proteins, and general nastiness that results from your insides being subjected to bursts of concentrated energy.
the safest OS on the planet is one stored in non-erasable ROM.
Really? The first virus I ever saw was on an Amiga which loaded the kernel and much of its OS from ROM. The OS image itself was safe and unmodifiable, sure, but the rest of the system was wide open for the taking. By analogy, even if you could boot Linux from a pressed CD and protect the kernel's integrity 100%, users won't be impressed to see their home directories get nuked. The only think the "pure" boot image gets you is a quicker bare-metal recovery when you get attacked.
Won't happen. I have no idea why people are invested in this particular statement, but they certainly seem to be knotted up over it. He said something stupidly wrong and people caught it; I don't see the need to invent things he might have meant to make it sound less dumb.
That's not the implication if his statement and you know it. Is Vista the safest OS of every single OS on the planet? Of course not. Does that change the impact of his statement one bit? Not at all. Look, I'm not one to take a random quote from a Microsoft exec at face value
So your position is that it's OK to flat-out lie as long as it's in the context of selling more of your product. Turner didn't qualify his statement when he made it, so I feel no compulsion to qualify it when I disprove it.
...and all the security-designed systems. Do you really think Windows is safer than OpenBSD, let alone OpenVMS? Or whatever the NSA uses on their hardest systems? His quote is like saying that "the Ford Mustang is the fastest car on the planet".
Fortunately, I tell my loved ones that I love them pretty much every day. I keep a relationship open with my family and I've chosen to live near them so that I can see them.
I talk to my mom quite a bit, too. If I got a call that I was needed home now, I'd still do everything I humanly could to get there ASAP. My dad died about a week after I'd seen him and spent a long lazy day talking and laughing and hanging out, but I was still on the highway within 5 minutes of getting The Call.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't have a place, I have music and caffeine. If I hear old Crystal Method or Orbital, I immediately think of late nights in the zone with Mountain Dew and Code.
s/Mountain Dew/Dr Pepper/ and I could have written that. "Vegas" is still my go-to music for urgent deadlines.
[Open Source] Cons
Interestingly, those are some of the exact same reasons why I dislike proprietary software.
Either way you're using a transformation function on the password field that does take case into account.
Except it won't:
...will return a row if the encrypted version of 'foo' matches any case-insensitive permutation of the encrypted version of the real password. Now, you can rewrite that to match case as other people here have pointed out, but it's insane that the default behavior is to allow sloppy matches. It never would have occurred to me that "=" doesn't really mean "equals" before reading it here.
There is no one-comparison-technique-fits-all. We simply need more powerful and friendly comparing operators that can optionally ignore case, ignore white space, etc. And, without requiring duplicating functions on both sides, such as trim(lower(x)) == trim(lower(y)). That's poor conceptual factoring and hurts readability.
I don't see it that way. When I'd revisit that query a year later, I could tell exactly what trim(lower(x)) is doing without memorizing the details of a combinatorially-growing handful of operators (equals, insensitive equals, trim equals, trim insensitive equals, etc.). Add functional indexes (as in PostgreSQL, Oracle, and many others) and you even get excellent performance without the database having to maintain indexes for each of the special operators just in case you might want to use them.
And this is why you don't do the string comparison on the database side.
Is there a canonical list of things you only do client side when using MySQL, or is it something you kind of have to discover on your own over the years?
What version of MySQL did you use? I did some work using MySQL 5 and Hibernate and my queries were case sensitive.
5.0.75. I'm guessing that Hibernate works around that for you.
Well it can be case sensitive if that's what you want. You just need to set the collation:
CREATE TABLE foo(bar VARCHAR(10)) CHARACTER SET latin1 COLLATE latin1_bin;
So it's Yet Another Broken MySQL Default that has to be detected and worked around in the application. Nice.
So you're going to uproot your whole system and switch to a different database just because you don't know how your current one works? SMRT
Nope. I upgraded to PostgreSQL most of a decade ago and haven't looked back.
Can anyone give an example of another common modern environment where "=" (or "==" as appropriate) is case insensitive?
string comparison using MATCH(row) AGAINST ('string') is case insensitive.
I know you can match insensitively, but it boggles my mind that it's not the default. I expect "=" to mean "equals", not "closely approximates if you throw away enough information".
As for MySQL, the Oracle benefactors will say: do not worry, my dear people, we will keep it with true love, and gradually let it become deprecatingly obsolete.
I think that started before Sun even bought it.
I disagree. They know what they are, but they've been told that they're unimportant.
Imagine this - I need to grab the physical file for a db or table.... what do I look for?
Imagine this - you'd never, ever want to do that with a production database. What good is a copy of a table file with no context, no foreign key integrity, no transactional integrity, nothing? If you must back up a single table, pg_dump works.
Their string comparisons are case sensitive.
OMFG, massive fail for MySQL. I thought you were joking, but you aren't!
Imagine an OS where strcmp() was case insensitive, and where it was used to compare hashed passwords when authenticating users. Realize that base64 is now really base36, and that you're been throwing away approximately half the bits per character in the encoded password, and that your passwords are now about .5^$LENGTH as secure.
Have fun auditing your MySQL-based webapps to make sure that none of them use base64 password encoding coupled with case-insensitive searches!
If programming language X was a car then it would be a Y
...where "Y" is "head of a list", according to Wittgenstein.
And I think my GF and I
You had us 'til this.
I read somewhere that one of the reasons medium/high doses of radiation kill you is all the helpful bacteria in your digestive system are killed, leaving you unable to process nutrients.
Well, that and the internal burns, shredded DNA, denatured proteins, and general nastiness that results from your insides being subjected to bursts of concentrated energy.
the safest OS on the planet is one stored in non-erasable ROM.
Really? The first virus I ever saw was on an Amiga which loaded the kernel and much of its OS from ROM. The OS image itself was safe and unmodifiable, sure, but the rest of the system was wide open for the taking. By analogy, even if you could boot Linux from a pressed CD and protect the kernel's integrity 100%, users won't be impressed to see their home directories get nuked. The only think the "pure" boot image gets you is a quicker bare-metal recovery when you get attacked.
Vista is only perceived as the newest Windows ME by uninformed people.
True. Their more-informed brethren are watching to see if Win7 can fail harder.
Won't happen. I have no idea why people are invested in this particular statement, but they certainly seem to be knotted up over it. He said something stupidly wrong and people caught it; I don't see the need to invent things he might have meant to make it sound less dumb.
That's not the implication if his statement and you know it. Is Vista the safest OS of every single OS on the planet? Of course not. Does that change the impact of his statement one bit? Not at all. Look, I'm not one to take a random quote from a Microsoft exec at face value
So your position is that it's OK to flat-out lie as long as it's in the context of selling more of your product. Turner didn't qualify his statement when he made it, so I feel no compulsion to qualify it when I disprove it.
Hey my old 73 mustang a 351 cleveland and NOS was pretty damn fast.
I kinda like 'em, too, but it's not going to outrun a Veyron.
That leaves Vista
...and all the security-designed systems. Do you really think Windows is safer than OpenBSD, let alone OpenVMS? Or whatever the NSA uses on their hardest systems? His quote is like saying that "the Ford Mustang is the fastest car on the planet".
It's also the most secure OS on the planet
Trusted Solaris would like to have a word with you.
Fortunately, I tell my loved ones that I love them pretty much every day. I keep a relationship open with my family and I've chosen to live near them so that I can see them.
I talk to my mom quite a bit, too. If I got a call that I was needed home now, I'd still do everything I humanly could to get there ASAP. My dad died about a week after I'd seen him and spent a long lazy day talking and laughing and hanging out, but I was still on the highway within 5 minutes of getting The Call.
That was actually one of the better puns I've read here. Kudos!
Then also realize that the new whizbang technologies like SQL
Only a mainframe greybeard would refer to SQL (1970) as "new".