How many *BSD developers write truly portable apps?
I was answering directly to your statement.
Truth is most linux most linux distros are not 100% compatible. Whereas if you use FreeBSD there is only one FreeBSD to use. And most of the BSD's share code and its fairly portable between them.
how about redhat jumping the gun so to speak on glibc? That caused and still does cause problems when going between distros.
>One shouldn't pretend portability where none
>really exists. Ooh, I'm impressed; a brash statement without a single example. Thank you, I'm
so informed.:^(
Not really, its a simple statement of fact. I never claimed everythin on bsd was totally portable did I? And most linux app developers dont develop very portable code, but there is a large amount of lip service to it. GNU tools will work on most platforms if you use gcc to compile, that is a know fact and im not disputing that. I'm talking about non-GNU tools here.
There are quire a few gnu tools being used by FreeBSD. Grep and tar come immediately to mind. And FreeBSD does have SMP, now it's not the best but it works acceptably (I've used it). That should change soon when 5.0 comes out though.
Linux talking about portability is rather amusing. How many linux developers right truly portable apps? The number of times I've had to fix a linux app so i could run on Solaris or BSD is very high. One shouldn't pretend portability where none really exists.
They aren't stabbing anyone in the back. Also sun has some nice hardware, sparc kicks x86 ass anyday. Also if your going to use SMP or do large databasing Solaris is the prime choice. there is a reason why Solaris is used as much as it is.
They didn't disregard anything or do anything wrong. Their tool is just a cross-compiler, it's upto the developer to honor the license.
People need to stop knee-jerking and read whats going on first. I've seen a disturbing trend here to post storeis, get a knee-jerk reaction which drives up traffic then a few hours later a retraction or clarification is posted. Makes ya wonder...
As for ethics, when did ethics stop a company? MS has questionable ethics as does Oracle but both are widely used.
Well the company owns any traffic going through their network since while at work you are well, on their time. I mean if your at work using company computers, they company has the right to restrict the use of or monitor the use of their network and hardware.
That said, i have a sniffer running monitoring my network for intrustion attempts only, i don't daily sift through logs nor want to. I will search the logs for something specific, say a certain users stuff or a certain file if needed.
As for blocking specific traffic in realtime that becomes more difficult you'd need to modify your firewall to block packets containg some sort of data. I've never done this, but i'm sure it is possible, practicaly cost-wise i can't say. How much traffic are we talking here?
You say its a finacnial data being passed, honestly when it comes to that much money for that many ppl employees privacy takes a back seat to covering your ass and protecting your clients money, would you want to be responsible however indirectly for someone losing all their money or say a million dollar screw up?
Look at the FreeBSD. All of them have a strong central group that oversees everything with other developers working on various things with specific levels of access. They are a good example of a success story.
Personally I think many porjects int he commercial world are either under-managed or over-managed to the point of ridiculousness. The worst is whe nyou have the "admin by committe" or the "develop by committee" approach where you ahve to have 10 meetings to get one thing changed.
Maybe the difference is that MS has never actually given an old lady third degree burns that left her bedridden. And been proven that they knew all along it was happening and did nothing about it...
Ok I have to comment on this. First off the lady took the lid off the cup and put it between her legs. Now you can tell me she didn't know the coffee was hot? Also state laws require food to be certain temperatures, for coffee it's a minimum of 140 degrees F. So tell me how McDonald's is responsible here, for not telling her the hot coffee she was buying was hot? that's like telling someone the ice your buying is cold.
The bad blood existed with the first EULA that made people "agree" not to reverse engineer their product. Verant intimated their own bad faith in that EULA, and telegraphed that their intention is to provide a monopoly service and they'll make sure that you'll never compete with them.
Bad Blood by saying you have to use our product this way and we don't want you to reverse engineer it? I agree it bitchy to say that but i din;t think it's generating bad blood in and of itself. Ignoring a companies communications is much worse that is likesaying "FU" to them, then egos kick in. That's like saying agreeing not to sell 1000 copys of this video you bought and sell them is bad blood. It's called protecting your interests.
On the patent issue, i agree, if they haven't patented it then there's alot more to it. What about copyright tho? Im nota copyright lawyer.
As for ignoring an email, in the US email have been used in court many times so they carry some weight at least as evidence. And never ignore when someone threatens legal action against you at the least consult a lawyer to protect yourself. If your lawyers says worry about ti you respond "please direct all correspondence to my lawyer here." That can sometimes make them back off if they realize that there is a real legal fight and they don't have any grounds. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.
Yes but what about using a proprietary protocol to open up a competing service without compensating the protocol developers? If this protocol has restrictions then they should be honored. If the creators have no problem with it fine, but if they do some sort of deal should be worked out at the least. Talk with them don't ignore or antagonize them, that just creates bad blood.
And if your sent cease-and-desist letters ignoring them could show bad faith to the courts. Never ignore any legal document sent in any way. At the worst just reply saying your lawyers are looking into it or something. Ignoring it does not make it go away.
Their reasoning for doing is flawed. They think lack of a shell equates to security, look at Microsoft, we know that is a fallacy. Also that mac server's performance is crap compared to any unix server. Truth is, mac's are not servers, they are desktops.
That's partially accurate. First off, the BSD's are not distros, they are seperate distinct OSes. This is a big difference to note. You can't take the FreeBSD kernel and drop it into NetBSD for isntance.
As for coders, usually those with commit privileges have proven themselves to someone that they are competent to actually perform updates. The coding model is one where ideas are tossed around, patches are made and tested, if they are useful and work well enough they get committed, if not then they aren't.
The major exception is the ports tree, there is less stringency on ports as they are thrid party apps, there has been a growing amount of audtining ofthe ports tree latelty due to some incidents in the past.
The major difference I see between Linux and BSD;s model is most BSD'ers are more experienced in many ways, so the code tends to be more stable, etc...
Bleeding edge is not a priority, stability and perforamce are, but FreeBSD supports pretty much everything you need..usb, SMP, gigabit ethernet to name some newer tech.
there is a package system for FreeBSd. As for upgrading ports, usually it is simply a matter of cvsup'ping your ports collection and then remaking and installing it. The ports collection does much more than packages do. Can a package install dependencies? Can a package download everything you need for you?
But as someone else has pointed out, Apple bout Next which had their own cube so in essence they own a cube design already. Maybe they can suge cobalt for stelaing the cube design from next heh.
Here is an interesting aside. According to the test they tracked -Current of FreeBSD. -current is akin to alpha or beta software. -RELEASE or -STABLE would be more in line iwth a production release.
This is completely wrong. Solairs is based on Sys V first of all, SunOS had BSD roots but solaris is a completely different beast.
The BSD's are not the same OS. FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD are not BSD distros they are 3 operating systems with the same ancestor.
Is there a difference? Yes a big one. PErforamnce is not the same on all of them, they do not all support SMP, the security model is different to some degree on each of them. Please research before you make these comments.
This is completely untrue. FreeBSD is under the BSDL, it can never be like that. There will be a merging of BSDI-NDA code eventually, the SMP code is something FreeBSD users are looking forward to.
well they are based in the us so they need to follow it's laws. Actually i think it's good what they copppa attempts to do. Some websites were tryig to get all sorts of info from kids, like their allowance, how much their parents make,etc...
Now for most other things you need parental consent for that stuff, why should the web be different?
You can teach kids alot, truth is kids need guidance for a reason mostly because 99% of them cannot make informed judgments and can be talked into things easily.
ahh but NIKE did not hing wrong, NSI was the one who screwed up. They did not get hacked, waht happened was someone hijacked the domain and rtedirected it to that guy. Now they have a right to complain about NSI letting this happen.
Again they did nothing wrong, why should the take the blame for something that they should not, doesnt matter how big or small you are in this case. It's a BS lawsuit.
Actually i'd say FreeBSD is the best bet for a software router. Everything you is there you just need to compile it in and turn it on. That is one of the things FreeBSD was designed to do.
In the works is a trusted BSD, TrustedBSD. It is aiming for some of what that doctor wanted, if not all. Nice thing is you will be able to pull the changes (eventually) back into FreeBSD on which it is based.
PDF is meant for printing mostly, as for otherwise if done correctly it looks quite nice. If you have a large document that you need on the web and need to be printable a pdf is the only reliable way to go, no browserism to worry about. Slaves to adobe? Considering quark beats adobe on the publishing end in numbers i think that statement is a little off.
I've used adobe products for a logn time now, why? Because they do the job well and i know how to use them.
There is one other thing, with a pdf you can lock it so no one else can mess with it, try that with an html page.
It's not a matter of responsability for one's choices it a matter of chossing one product for a particular reason then having a very limited choice of other options even though the claim is that what you originally bought will work with x,y and z.
Many MS products are deisgned only to work within an MS environment all around, or at least to work well. Anything else may be intentionally handicapped in some way. That is stacking the deck wrongly imho.
I should not have to choose a specific mail client based on the mail server or vice versa.
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How many *BSD developers write truly portable apps? I was answering directly to your statement.
:^(
Truth is most linux most linux distros are not 100% compatible. Whereas if you use FreeBSD there is only one FreeBSD to use. And most of the BSD's share code and its fairly portable between them.
how about redhat jumping the gun so to speak on glibc? That caused and still does cause problems when going between distros.
>One shouldn't pretend portability where none >really exists.
Ooh, I'm impressed; a brash statement without a single example. Thank you, I'm so informed.
Not really, its a simple statement of fact. I never claimed everythin on bsd was totally portable did I? And most linux app developers dont develop very portable code, but there is a large amount of lip service to it. GNU tools will work on most platforms if you use gcc to compile, that is a know fact and im not disputing that. I'm talking about non-GNU tools here.
There are quire a few gnu tools being used by FreeBSD. Grep and tar come immediately to mind. And FreeBSD does have SMP, now it's not the best but it works acceptably (I've used it). That should change soon when 5.0 comes out though.
Linux talking about portability is rather amusing. How many linux developers right truly portable apps? The number of times I've had to fix a linux app so i could run on Solaris or BSD is very high. One shouldn't pretend portability where none really exists.
They aren't stabbing anyone in the back. Also sun has some nice hardware, sparc kicks x86 ass anyday. Also if your going to use SMP or do large databasing Solaris is the prime choice. there is a reason why Solaris is used as much as it is.
They didn't disregard anything or do anything wrong. Their tool is just a cross-compiler, it's upto the developer to honor the license.
People need to stop knee-jerking and read whats going on first. I've seen a disturbing trend here to post storeis, get a knee-jerk reaction which drives up traffic then a few hours later a retraction or clarification is posted. Makes ya wonder...
As for ethics, when did ethics stop a company? MS has questionable ethics as does Oracle but both are widely used.
Well the company owns any traffic going through their network since while at work you are well, on their time. I mean if your at work using company computers, they company has the right to restrict the use of or monitor the use of their network and hardware.
That said, i have a sniffer running monitoring my network for intrustion attempts only, i don't daily sift through logs nor want to. I will search the logs for something specific, say a certain users stuff or a certain file if needed.
As for blocking specific traffic in realtime that becomes more difficult you'd need to modify your firewall to block packets containg some sort of data. I've never done this, but i'm sure it is possible, practicaly cost-wise i can't say. How much traffic are we talking here?
You say its a finacnial data being passed, honestly when it comes to that much money for that many ppl employees privacy takes a back seat to covering your ass and protecting your clients money, would you want to be responsible however indirectly for someone losing all their money or say a million dollar screw up?
Look at the FreeBSD. All of them have a strong central group that oversees everything with other developers working on various things with specific levels of access. They are a good example of a success story.
Personally I think many porjects int he commercial world are either under-managed or over-managed to the point of ridiculousness. The worst is whe nyou have the "admin by committe" or the "develop by committee" approach where you ahve to have 10 meetings to get one thing changed.
. . .okay . . . Why? What do you gain?
This flamebait? Seems like a basic question as to any advantages...
Maybe the difference is that MS has never actually given an old lady third degree burns that left her bedridden. And been proven that they knew all along it was happening and did nothing about it...
Ok I have to comment on this. First off the lady took the lid off the cup and put it between her legs. Now you can tell me she didn't know the coffee was hot? Also state laws require food to be certain temperatures, for coffee it's a minimum of 140 degrees F. So tell me how McDonald's is responsible here, for not telling her the hot coffee she was buying was hot? that's like telling someone the ice your buying is cold.
The bad blood existed with the first EULA that made people "agree" not to reverse engineer their product. Verant intimated their own bad faith in that EULA, and telegraphed that their intention is to provide a monopoly service and they'll make sure that you'll never compete with them.
Bad Blood by saying you have to use our product this way and we don't want you to reverse engineer it? I agree it bitchy to say that but i din;t think it's generating bad blood in and of itself. Ignoring a companies communications is much worse that is likesaying "FU" to them, then egos kick in. That's like saying agreeing not to sell 1000 copys of this video you bought and sell them is bad blood. It's called protecting your interests.
On the patent issue, i agree, if they haven't patented it then there's alot more to it. What about copyright tho? Im nota copyright lawyer.
As for ignoring an email, in the US email have been used in court many times so they carry some weight at least as evidence. And never ignore when someone threatens legal action against you at the least consult a lawyer to protect yourself. If your lawyers says worry about ti you respond "please direct all correspondence to my lawyer here." That can sometimes make them back off if they realize that there is a real legal fight and they don't have any grounds. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.
Yes but what about using a proprietary protocol to open up a competing service without compensating the protocol developers? If this protocol has restrictions then they should be honored. If the creators have no problem with it fine, but if they do some sort of deal should be worked out at the least. Talk with them don't ignore or antagonize them, that just creates bad blood.
And if your sent cease-and-desist letters ignoring them could show bad faith to the courts. Never ignore any legal document sent in any way. At the worst just reply saying your lawyers are looking into it or something. Ignoring it does not make it go away.
Their reasoning for doing is flawed. They think lack of a shell equates to security, look at Microsoft, we know that is a fallacy. Also that mac server's performance is crap compared to any unix server. Truth is, mac's are not servers, they are desktops.
That's partially accurate. First off, the BSD's are not distros, they are seperate distinct OSes. This is a big difference to note. You can't take the FreeBSD kernel and drop it into NetBSD for isntance.
As for coders, usually those with commit privileges have proven themselves to someone that they are competent to actually perform updates. The coding model is one where ideas are tossed around, patches are made and tested, if they are useful and work well enough they get committed, if not then they aren't.
The major exception is the ports tree, there is less stringency on ports as they are thrid party apps, there has been a growing amount of audtining ofthe ports tree latelty due to some incidents in the past.
The major difference I see between Linux and BSD;s model is most BSD'ers are more experienced in many ways, so the code tends to be more stable, etc...
Bleeding edge is not a priority, stability and perforamce are, but FreeBSD supports pretty much everything you need..usb, SMP, gigabit ethernet to name some newer tech.
there is a package system for FreeBSd. As for upgrading ports, usually it is simply a matter of cvsup'ping your ports collection and then remaking and installing it. The ports collection does much more than packages do. Can a package install dependencies? Can a package download everything you need for you?
But as someone else has pointed out, Apple bout Next which had their own cube so in essence they own a cube design already. Maybe they can suge cobalt for stelaing the cube design from next heh.
Here is an interesting aside. According to the test they tracked -Current of FreeBSD. -current is akin to alpha or beta software. -RELEASE or -STABLE would be more in line iwth a production release.
This is completely wrong. Solairs is based on Sys V first of all, SunOS had BSD roots but solaris is a completely different beast.
The BSD's are not the same OS. FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD are not BSD distros they are 3 operating systems with the same ancestor.
Is there a difference? Yes a big one. PErforamnce is not the same on all of them, they do not all support SMP, the security model is different to some degree on each of them. Please research before you make these comments.
This is completely untrue. FreeBSD is under the BSDL, it can never be like that. There will be a merging of BSDI-NDA code eventually, the SMP code is something FreeBSD users are looking forward to.
hehe this one should be moderated up as funny.
Last check NetBSD runs on at least 32 platforms. Goto www.netbsd.org for particulars.
well they are based in the us so they need to follow it's laws. Actually i think it's good what they copppa attempts to do. Some websites were tryig to get all sorts of info from kids, like their allowance, how much their parents make,etc...
Now for most other things you need parental consent for that stuff, why should the web be different?
You can teach kids alot, truth is kids need guidance for a reason mostly because 99% of them cannot make informed judgments and can be talked into things easily.
two things here, in the us you must be over 18 to have a credit card, you can have a card from your parents as a dependent account though.
Also most credit card companies DO NOT want cards used for id purposes, for security reasons.
ahh but NIKE did not hing wrong, NSI was the one who screwed up. They did not get hacked, waht happened was someone hijacked the domain and rtedirected it to that guy. Now they have a right to complain about NSI letting this happen.
Again they did nothing wrong, why should the take the blame for something that they should not, doesnt matter how big or small you are in this case. It's a BS lawsuit.
Actually i'd say FreeBSD is the best bet for a software router. Everything you is there you just need to compile it in and turn it on. That is one of the things FreeBSD was designed to do.
In the works is a trusted BSD, TrustedBSD. It is aiming for some of what that doctor wanted, if not all. Nice thing is you will be able to pull the changes (eventually) back into FreeBSD on which it is based.
PDF is meant for printing mostly, as for otherwise if done correctly it looks quite nice. If you have a large document that you need on the web and need to be printable a pdf is the only reliable way to go, no browserism to worry about. Slaves to adobe? Considering quark beats adobe on the publishing end in numbers i think that statement is a little off.
I've used adobe products for a logn time now, why? Because they do the job well and i know how to use them.
There is one other thing, with a pdf you can lock it so no one else can mess with it, try that with an html page.
It's not a matter of responsability for one's choices it a matter of chossing one product for a particular reason then having a very limited choice of other options even though the claim is that what you originally bought will work with x,y and z.
Many MS products are deisgned only to work within an MS environment all around, or at least to work well. Anything else may be intentionally handicapped in some way. That is stacking the deck wrongly imho.
I should not have to choose a specific mail client based on the mail server or vice versa.