If Apple suspends Your rights to Affected Original Code, nothing in this License shall be construed to restrict You, at Your option and subject to applicable law, from replacing the Affected Original Code with non-infringing code or independently negotiating for necessary rights from such third party.
Phil, if you're in a different country where the code is non-infringing, you can negotiate for the "necessary rights". Since there *are* no necessary rights, you can continue using the code. -russ
Right, but they have to make that claim in court. That is, they have to actually bring suit -- writing a cease and desist letter isn't sufficient. And you can write your own work-around for the infringing code, which is a good idea anyway.
Think of this section as a battle plan against patents. At least Apple is telling you what its plans are. The GPL says nothing about what the FSF plans to do in case suit is brought against it for contributory infringement. -russ
So that Apple users can write drivers for PCI hardware which is Windows-centric. It only makes sense -- Apple can't support everything, so why not let users do it? -russ
OSI will have a public statement within the week. If you want to participate in the license review, subscribe to license-discuss by sending mail to license-discuss-subscribe@opensource.org. -russ
Bruce, if you don't post a URL to the message you claim ESR wrote to a mailing list, I'm threatening never to believe you again. If you claim to be Bruce Perens, I'm going to ask for proof. Publicly. -russ
About the spelling flame: I worked hard to learn how to spell received correctly. It was in my master's thesis about a gazillion times (transmitted was also in there big-time) and I'll be damned if I'll sit by and watch someone else get it wrong.
We really don't know what ESR's threat was in response to, do we, because Bruce took it out of context.
Longevity in the free software movement matters. It shows a certain personal committment to it, as opposed to opportunism. -russ
Unless you can give me the URL to an archive page containing ESR's threat, I'm going to continue to believe that it was private mail. It's not the sort of thing which ESR would have done publicly. -russ
If power has been growing for 1000 years, what happened to the serfs? What happened to peasants in America? How has the middle class arisen? Your premise is countered by the facts. -russ
A free-market economy is a result of freedom, not the cause of it. And freedom only comes through centuries of negotiation between peasants and elites. If the elites don't feel like they have to talk to the peasants, then the country has no hope of escaping the mire of poverty, Internet or no. -russ
By the way, in case it's not completely obvious, I was being sarcastic. My momma taught me that when someone gives you a gift, you say "thank you", even if it's not perfect, even if it's not quite what you wanted, even if it's perfect for someone not your size, even if it's a total piece of crap that you want to hurl in the garbage, even if the very thought of owning it makes you want to puke. You still say thank you; criticism is completely out of the question; public criticism more so.
So, thanks to openprojects.net, we have a shiny new home with lots of bandwidth, and once we move there, a mailing list manager of some repute. -russ
Oh, we get to criticize people if they don't do a good job? In public? Without apology? Fine, then I'll tell everyone that the reason the mailing list has been delayed is because you've failed to execute the following commands:
I'm sure that Milton Friedman is very MUCH in favor of trademarks. Without trademarks, the transaction cost of protecting a reputation is much higher. And reputations are part of what allow free markets to govern in place of politics. -russ p.s. yes, unions, lobbies and all the rest are indeed bad.
There is no public archive (yet), and there is no subscription confirmation (yet). We have some ducks which still need lining up. In the meantime, you'll be on the list if you've sent mail to the -subscribe address. -russ
I hardly think it unreasonable for me to tell someone that they are welcome to join the free software community, but that they must free their software first. Or are you saying that some in the free software community are ingracious slobs? That's not my experience -- this community is a meritocracy which welcomes anyone who can pay the price of entrance. -russ
BTW, the letter that I signed didn't have that headline. I presume to describe the community, to outline the price of admission to the community, and even warn about the reception Microsoft might get, but not to speak *for* the Open Source community. -russ
So is RedHat providing a T1 or a T3 to the beachhouse? If neither, then what's so interesting about a beach? If I spend more than an hour in the sun, I get a sunburn. What's the fun in that? -russ
Slashdot Mirror
Phil, if you're in a different country where the code is non-infringing, you can negotiate for the "necessary rights". Since there *are* no necessary rights, you can continue using the code.
-russ
Of course there's a termination clause. If you don't have *some* termination clause, what meaning would the other terms have??
The question is: "what triggers the termination clause"? And you haven't explained what the problem is there, so I can't address it.
-russ
Right, but they have to make that claim in court. That is, they have to actually bring suit -- writing a cease and desist letter isn't sufficient. And you can write your own work-around for the infringing code, which is a good idea anyway.
Think of this section as a battle plan against patents. At least Apple is telling you what its plans are. The GPL says nothing about what the FSF plans to do in case suit is brought against it for contributory infringement.
-russ
So that Apple users can write drivers for PCI hardware which is Windows-centric. It only makes sense -- Apple can't support everything, so why not let users do it?
-russ
OSI will have a public statement within the week. If you want to participate in the license review, subscribe to license-discuss by sending mail to license-discuss-subscribe@opensource.org.
-russ
When I was a teenager, we hacked into machines the studly way: through the front panel.
-russ
Sheesh, San, have a little modesty!
-russ
p.s. I *still* owe San lunch.
Bruce, if you don't post a URL to the message you claim ESR wrote to a mailing list, I'm threatening never to believe you again. If you claim to be Bruce Perens, I'm going to ask for proof. Publicly.
-russ
About the spelling flame: I worked hard to learn how to spell received correctly. It was in my master's thesis about a gazillion times (transmitted was also in there big-time) and I'll be damned if I'll sit by and watch someone else get it wrong.
We really don't know what ESR's threat was in response to, do we, because Bruce took it out of context.
Longevity in the free software movement matters. It shows a certain personal committment to it, as opposed to opportunism.
-russ
Unless you can give me the URL to an archive page containing ESR's threat, I'm going to continue to believe that it was private mail. It's not the sort of thing which ESR would have done publicly.
-russ
ESR is one of six, soon to be seven.
received is spelled received, not recieved.
ESR really *was* there from the beginning. I know; I was there too.
ESR's threat is believable; not that it would involve violence, merely letting people know that Bruce's behavior is typical of Bruce.
-russ
If power has been growing for 1000 years, what happened to the serfs? What happened to peasants in America? How has the middle class arisen? Your premise is countered by the facts.
-russ
A free-market economy is a result of freedom, not the cause of it. And freedom only comes through centuries of negotiation between peasants and elites. If the elites don't feel like they have to talk to the peasants, then the country has no hope of escaping the mire of poverty, Internet or no.
-russ
It was different before we came along?
-russ
By the way, in case it's not completely obvious, I was being sarcastic. My momma taught me that when someone gives you a gift, you say "thank you", even if it's not perfect, even if it's not quite what you wanted, even if it's perfect for someone not your size, even if it's a total piece of crap that you want to hurl in the garbage, even if the very thought of owning it makes you want to puke. You still say thank you; criticism is completely out of the question; public criticism more so.
So, thanks to openprojects.net, we have a shiny new home with lots of bandwidth, and once we move there, a mailing list manager of some repute.
-russ
Oh, we get to criticize people if they don't do a good job? In public? Without apology? Fine, then I'll tell everyone that the reason the mailing list has been delayed is because you've failed to execute the following commands:
/data/org/opensource
cd
chmod -R g+rw .
chgrp -R opensource .
Thank you for your prompt attention to this detail.
-russ
I'm sure that Milton Friedman is very MUCH in favor of trademarks. Without trademarks, the transaction cost of protecting a reputation is much higher. And reputations are part of what allow free markets to govern in place of politics. -russ
p.s. yes, unions, lobbies and all the rest are indeed bad.
There is no public archive (yet), and there is no subscription confirmation (yet). We have some ducks which still need lining up. In the meantime, you'll be on the list if you've sent mail to the -subscribe address.
-russ
Click on the mailto: url in the announcement.
-russ
Try calling your software "microsoft" software.
-russ
You lead, OSI will follow.
I hardly think it unreasonable for me to tell someone that they are welcome to join the free software community, but that they must free their software first. Or are you saying that some in the free software community are ingracious slobs?
That's not my experience -- this community is a meritocracy which welcomes anyone who can pay the price of entrance.
-russ
I interpreted "We in the open-source community" to mean "the undersigned".
-russ
BTW, the letter that I signed didn't have that headline. I presume to describe the community, to outline the price of admission to the community, and even warn about the reception Microsoft might get, but not to speak *for* the Open Source community.
-russ
So is RedHat providing a T1 or a T3 to the beachhouse? If neither, then what's so interesting about a beach? If I spend more than an hour in the sun, I get a sunburn. What's the fun in that?
-russ
Mirror it and grep.
-russ