I was willing to stay and get anthraxed or fuel bombed. I am not willing to stay here and get dragged off by the new police state. Does anyone know how hard it is to emmigrate to Canada?
I think killing him would be counterproductive. If they could catch him I would be more satisfied to see him hooked up to solar powered respirator and shot into space to live into infinity and never meet allah.
Some of them act that way because they are stupid.
Others who had to wade through the whole sickening alphabet soup mess of the WTO, IMF, NAFTA, all the rest in order to figure out what the hell was going on in the third world are insulted by people who think they know what they are talking about when they enter the debate and know jack shit. That would include you. For every dollar in relief that Africa recieves they pay back $1.31 in interest payments. One of the problems the movement has is that in order to get to the problem you have to wade through an enormous amount of very dry economic beaurocracy which by the time your done wading through it feels very much like deliberate obfuscation, money laundering in a way. When you follow the money you find out that what happens is loans are offered to buy infrastructer investments that are not able to be completed by local labor. So the money they loaned goes straight back to a Western country that can handle the construction. The interest on the loan is payed back ad infintum to Western Banks.
If the entire system was not directly intended to bleed the resources of the Third World into the first it does one hell of a job at doing just that.
It doesn't make you less of an American to take a deep hard look at what our foreign policy decisions have done to the reputation of the country. We didn't deserve what we got, no one does but that doesn't make us shining knights for peace and world harmony either.
With the exception of Iran we installed all those governments in the 50's and 60's to keep the bad ole commies out of there. As it works out the arab states didn't like the godless commies any more than the CIA but *whoops* we made a mistake.
Saddam especially, he recieved alot of support both economic, material and intelligence for his killing spree on behalf of the Baath party. We certainly didn't need to occupy them. Greed did the rest in the Arab states, the oil companies could care less about U.S. foreign policy as long as the dollars keep flowing in.
Is it too much to ask what we are going to do about mistakes before they bite us in the ass again or is it the right time to make another copule mistakes?
Here's a link to the school of the americas watch site. href=http://www.soaw.org/home.html
Osama didn't get his training there but he was trained by the CIA.
I'm not legitimizing terror attacks only demonstrating that if we want to be viewed by world as truely against terrorism it is ESSENTIAL to clean up here first.
I was trying very hard not to preach to the converted:)
Don't think I am ignorant of the role of the U.S. setting up the Taliban or the fact that the CIA probably still had some sort of relationship to him up until he became demonized. He could have been useful in their cold war locked view of thought in case of some form of russian agression in the area. That is the real reason he and his network were allowed to flourish.
I have heard this ignorant thing before. A true pacifist would not hit you back. These are quakers, folks of that sort. Even Gandhi knew that non-violent demonstration would not hold back a soviet invasion and he defended his country against that.
I am not a pacifist, I would beat the hell out of you. Gandhi would have beat the hell out of you. You have to analyse the problem you are dealing with. Is state support for terrorism the reason that terrorism exists? No. Does it help it out? Yes. State sponsered terrorism is a crime. Does the United States sponser terrorism? Yes. Even without getting into an argument over what terrorism is, we train death squads that are used for right-wing forces in Latin America. Nothing secret about it, they are trained at the School of the Americas. So we are part of the problem.
The use of Military force to get rid of the Taliban is acceptable to me. I think it's horribly more problematic than your average flag-waving, bomb the shit out them person realizes but I think if we could go into afganistan and truely create a fair, just, democratic government it would be worth the sacrifice of American lives.
That said the main work in solving these problems is not solvable by military measures. The problem is an idea. In the words of Crass "Ideas are bulletproof". Truer words have never been spoken.
The idea must be attacked. The idea is that the U.S. is an evil power that uses it's might to subjucate the rest of the world to it's interest. Does military action attack that idea?
No. It reinforces it and guarantees a new generation of martyrs willing to die if they can get rid of the big, bad, evil U.S. Military action should be seen as the very smallest part of an effort to combat this idea. Making fair, sane foreign policy decisions should have been a priority before 9/11. Making them now is not "appeasement" it's just the right thing to do. I do think it's rather sad that until U.S. lives were at stake that no one in America gave a damn about our foreign policy but it has now become a matter of national security.
Actually it probably would have worked. The Taliban are puppets for alot of people, but their puppetmasters haven't been treating them very well. A number of the taliban leaders are still on the payroll of Pakistan as intelligence officers. Pakistan made the Taliban and now they are trying to back away from them. Bin Ladin and his group are not Afghani's the taliban is in a stuck situation in having to defend him.
I'm not going to shed any tears about the Taliban leaving power or even dying, but I just think we have picked the wrong solution. We are backing the Northern Alliance now and RAWA doesn't see them as anything but another taliban to take power.
So...in order to not create chaos they had to pick a king? They just happened to pick the conservative candidate becuase....why? Not politics? You are still missing the point that they did a very sudden and one time 180 on the 14th amendment, even they knew it was against everything they had ever said was "constitutional" leading them to note that this case isn't to be treated as case law. The only time the supreme court should get involved with this when Bush shows up. Every law professer in the world was left scratching their head and wondering what the hell happened. You really think that was a sage, wise decision? In order to "clean things up" they had to take the power away from the florida state supreme court? When did any of those justices ever shoot down state law?
If they really had to get involved they could have settled things with a toin coss. It happens in local elections occasionaly when there is a tie. I used to feel that it was an interesting paradox that the greatest defender of liberty in the United States was a lifelong appointed non-democratic division. They have earned the unending contempt of anyone who ever believed that the Supreme Court can be depended upon
I know you can't believe that. After Bush vs. Gore no sane person feels that the current supreme court takes the rule of law seriously. Even the five who voted on that won't talk about it because it is so embarassing to try to defend. The five hard core states right justices intervene under 14th amendment provisions that they have NEVER, EVER agreed with before to take the decision out of the hands of the state whose sovereignty they would NEVER, EVER question in any other case and declare their boy the winner. You still have faith in those people?
So they got Yahoo to cave in? That was a large corporate entity which faced being ip blocked and losing revenue from countries. When you say the entire internet is subject to restriction I don't think that is possible. Some country somewhere will not cave in and their economy will see a huge boost as skyscrapers full of server farms move in.
I think the U.S. may make laws and monitor me. As that happens we'll move to bluetooth networks, repeater stations at strategic locations, etc.. I won't be run off the internet, we are smarter and faster than they are.
I understand your frustration with people who aren't open to ideas without having any to replace them. However, I'm going to do just that. The converse of that idea is that we just do anything regardless of whether it helps or not.
I'm terrified by the reaction of this country far more than terrorists. I'm wondering what "terrorist" means. The wierd totalitarian things that have happened here have fueled my paranoia. The White House issuing a statement telling people they have to "watch what they say" has me wondering if "terrorist" might mean anyone who dares dissent.
I'd rather let things cool down for awhile. The way terrorist cells operate is that after an action everybody flees and goes back into cover. We have awhile to think about this. I think it would be a very good thing to let these decisions come at a more cool headed time.
Actually if you still follow this thread, my reply was to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21995&cid=2355 387
I wasn't following it that close after that, but I did read your other comments. I've got a little second-hand knowledge about Columbia. This is just something to think about. What we do down there is keep sniper positions on the routes that drug smugglers usually use. We kill people who use those roads. They may be up to no good. They may just be trying to stay the hell away from the para-militarys that we support. They are just as likely to grab your stuff and kill you as FARC rebels or anyone else out there.
We essentially use terror to keep people on the beaten paths.
I'm just passsing this on because you seem fairly up on what is happening in the world. Make your own judgements on what is terrorism or what it isn't.
Re:It just goes to show..
on
Brian West Update
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Admitted to being one I think is a huge key. Right now is not a great time to be an evil hacker in front of a jury. He might have just decided it was best to plea and get what he possibly could. I just can't imagine this newspapers perl scripts or whatever he had as having resale value. Is anybody in that market? It just seems insane to me. Seems like he would have had an easier time hacking apart slashcode to get what he wanted.
On the other hand, he may have done something just like that. I'm just saying these are interesting times. I wouldn't take a confession of guilt to mean that the release put out is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
That's actually kinda funny. After we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima Truman made this long speech about how Hiroshima was a military base. That we hadn't attacked helpless civilians, they were just in the way.
No politician ever comes out and says we will attack civilians for terror purposes. Well, unless Osama counts, I guess he's a wierd sort of politician but he doesn't have borders and he knows his entire constituancy is behind him. A conventional politician has to appeal to a little more broad base.
Actually I was wondering where all the euro's had gone lately. I think silly ass chest pounding in uninteresting. I'm a long, long, long, way from a pacifist. As a matter of fact I'm a fairly brutal asshole when it comes to people who go after me and mine.
This does not mean I can just turn off my brain and quit thinking. Israeli's are crazy, they've been driven crazy by terrorism and do crazy things. The difference between them and us is that at least they know what they have done. They understand the causes and the issues. If you really believe we've only used military force against civilians once (I don't even know what you could be referring to) then you obviously don't keep in touch with reality.
I've got a friend in the 101st airborne who just got back from tours in Columbia and Korea. He was showing me his souvenier pics which included him standing over all kinds of different bodies with handwritten signs that said "11th confirmed kill" or whatever the number that it happened to be and the date. He knows damn well that there is no way to draw a line and come up with "that is a rebel" and "that is a civilian". He and I might disagree about foreign policy but we both understood the reality.
That's just one example that I can come up with where the U.S. military is killing civilians as we speak. That doesn't count the regimes that we give military aid to and tacit support.
Do you know how the fundamentalist governments came to power? With some exeptions (notably Iran) we installed non-democratic religous governments after World War II to try and keep them from voting in a pro-soviet communist leader. All this talk about we were attacked because we love democracy makes me ill.
As it turned out the culture of those countries was absolutely resistant to Soviet Influence anyway, they didn't like the godless commies any more than the CIA did.
Nobody is asking the US to just write a blank check to the rest of the world. blah
Now you've totally lost me. Why do we have to send baywatch episodes along with schools and economic aid that is string free? We're stuck in situations where the countrys that will line up for us are governed by regimes the CIA installed long ago. If they could actually run their country without American intervention in the actual process of government you lose the fanatics. No, you are never going to have Bin Laden singing the praises of the decadent west, but him and those like him lose their appeal over the masses.
Their culture and religion is flawed? I don't particularly want to live my life in a muslim way either, but it's not so much wierder than christian fundamentalists here. I wouldn't want a holy crusade coming to get me because I live in a country with crazy religious fanatics (meaning the United States)
You've been fooled. You watched the hand the magician was waving. Have you ever the Arab press? Other than the little bits that get pulled out and put on CNN when some crazy asshole the equivalent of that cunt from the paper saying we should invade and convert all the muslims to christianity by force says something similarly stupid?
Please read more
Israel does not spend it's monetary resourses on it's "security". Israel is the United States largest benifactor of foreign aid in the world by large. They recieve $2 billion dollars largely for military assistance. Those helicopters and fighters that bomb nearly random palestinians whenever there is a terror attack in some mindless game of tit for tat may as well have big pictures of uncle sam on them.
What they have done doesn't work. We are now Israel and we need to come up with something better than they have.
Americans need to come to grips with the fact that the U.S. government does things in their name in the Arab world that we are too lazy or ADD prone or whatever the fuck is wrong with us that we can't be pulled away from whatever fluffy story in the news is on.
Get informed.
Think hard about this people
on
A New Kind of War
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
href=http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/English/DecFe b99/bowdish.htm
Psyops is in full force. We are at an extremely high threatcon level. The rage against the machine message board was closed by the Secret Service and there were some credible tactical reasons for doing so, but that shows you where we have went today.
The big radio companys are under orders not to play a huge list of songs and that is really, really wierd, I was just at the page where the list of songs were, I went back to memepool to grab the url it was gone. This goes way beyond extra security checks. This is scaring the shit out of me ten times as much those planes. I'm not even going to try and clean up my post as I'm worried that the first link I posted will disappear as well. Maybe the sky really is falling.
I wonder if anybody has told Ronnie Reagan that his freedom fighters and the "moral equivalent of our founding fathers" have blown up the fucking pentagon.
This is a horrible situation for the entire anti-globalization movement. When you talk to the educated people who are in the Bin Laden organization..and yes the people at the top are highly educated. The issues they bring forward are the same as the movement. They want debt relief for third world countries. They want Israel to get back in it's borders.
I was going to go to the IMF protests in Washington DC on september 30. They postponed the meeting, but I would have been in an incredible dillema. There was characterization of the protesters before as some kind of wierd pinko loonie group. I'm sure now we would be characterized as terrorists. The highly visible people in the movement are in a horrible situation, if you don't want to just shut up and get on the kill Arabs bandwagon you are forced to say exactly what Saddam Hussein did, that American foreign policy brought this tragedy.
For the record, I am all for bringing out Death Squads to try and cut these organization out of operational levels. However if afterward you don't implement something like the Marshall plan in Europe after WWII you have solved nothing.
I hate giving terrorists a victory, but we really did need to rething our foreign policy. We got complacent, secure in our belief that no country could oppose us. I want to wave a flag and bomb the hell out of things to, but you have to use your head.
If all the Middle East had gone up in a nuclear fireball the night of the attack, I'd have cheered and bared my fangs like an ape. It's a few days later, I can think now. I won't lie, there are a few, very, very few people in the globalization movement that probably did think positively of the attack.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know what responce I could possibly have been trolling for but it wasn't a neg mod. I hope someone catchs that in metamod.
I was willing to stay and get anthraxed or fuel bombed. I am not willing to stay here and get dragged off by the new police state. Does anyone know how hard it is to emmigrate to Canada?
I think killing him would be counterproductive. If they could catch him I would be more satisfied to see him hooked up to solar powered respirator and shot into space to live into infinity and never meet allah.
Some of them act that way because they are stupid.
Others who had to wade through the whole sickening alphabet soup mess of the WTO, IMF, NAFTA, all the rest in order to figure out what the hell was going on in the third world are insulted by people who think they know what they are talking about when they enter the debate and know jack shit. That would include you. For every dollar in relief that Africa recieves they pay back $1.31 in interest payments. One of the problems the movement has is that in order to get to the problem you have to wade through an enormous amount of very dry economic beaurocracy which by the time your done wading through it feels very much like deliberate obfuscation, money laundering in a way. When you follow the money you find out that what happens is loans are offered to buy infrastructer investments that are not able to be completed by local labor. So the money they loaned goes straight back to a Western country that can handle the construction. The interest on the loan is payed back ad infintum to Western Banks.
If the entire system was not directly intended to bleed the resources of the Third World into the first it does one hell of a job at doing just that.
It doesn't make you less of an American to take a deep hard look at what our foreign policy decisions have done to the reputation of the country. We didn't deserve what we got, no one does but that doesn't make us shining knights for peace and world harmony either.
With the exception of Iran we installed all those governments in the 50's and 60's to keep the bad ole commies out of there. As it works out the arab states didn't like the godless commies any more than the CIA but *whoops* we made a mistake.
Saddam especially, he recieved alot of support both economic, material and intelligence for his killing spree on behalf of the Baath party. We certainly didn't need to occupy them. Greed did the rest in the Arab states, the oil companies could care less about U.S. foreign policy as long as the dollars keep flowing in.
Is it too much to ask what we are going to do about mistakes before they bite us in the ass again or is it the right time to make another copule mistakes?
Here's a link to the school of the americas watch site. href=http://www.soaw.org/home.html
Osama didn't get his training there but he was trained by the CIA.
I'm not legitimizing terror attacks only demonstrating that if we want to be viewed by world as truely against terrorism it is ESSENTIAL to clean up here first.
I was trying very hard not to preach to the converted :)
Don't think I am ignorant of the role of the U.S. setting up the Taliban or the fact that the CIA probably still had some sort of relationship to him up until he became demonized. He could have been useful in their cold war locked view of thought in case of some form of russian agression in the area. That is the real reason he and his network were allowed to flourish.
I have heard this ignorant thing before. A true pacifist would not hit you back. These are quakers, folks of that sort. Even Gandhi knew that non-violent demonstration would not hold back a soviet invasion and he defended his country against that.
I am not a pacifist, I would beat the hell out of you. Gandhi would have beat the hell out of you. You have to analyse the problem you are dealing with. Is state support for terrorism the reason that terrorism exists? No. Does it help it out? Yes. State sponsered terrorism is a crime. Does the United States sponser terrorism? Yes. Even without getting into an argument over what terrorism is, we train death squads that are used for right-wing forces in Latin America. Nothing secret about it, they are trained at the School of the Americas. So we are part of the problem.
The use of Military force to get rid of the Taliban is acceptable to me. I think it's horribly more problematic than your average flag-waving, bomb the shit out them person realizes but I think if we could go into afganistan and truely create a fair, just, democratic government it would be worth the sacrifice of American lives.
That said the main work in solving these problems is not solvable by military measures. The problem is an idea. In the words of Crass "Ideas are bulletproof". Truer words have never been spoken.
The idea must be attacked. The idea is that the U.S. is an evil power that uses it's might to subjucate the rest of the world to it's interest. Does military action attack that idea?
No. It reinforces it and guarantees a new generation of martyrs willing to die if they can get rid of the big, bad, evil U.S. Military action should be seen as the very smallest part of an effort to combat this idea. Making fair, sane foreign policy decisions should have been a priority before 9/11. Making them now is not "appeasement" it's just the right thing to do. I do think it's rather sad that until U.S. lives were at stake that no one in America gave a damn about our foreign policy but it has now become a matter of national security.
Actually it probably would have worked. The Taliban are puppets for alot of people, but their puppetmasters haven't been treating them very well. A number of the taliban leaders are still on the payroll of Pakistan as intelligence officers. Pakistan made the Taliban and now they are trying to back away from them. Bin Ladin and his group are not Afghani's the taliban is in a stuck situation in having to defend him.
I'm not going to shed any tears about the Taliban leaving power or even dying, but I just think we have picked the wrong solution. We are backing the Northern Alliance now and RAWA doesn't see them as anything but another taliban to take power.
So...in order to not create chaos they had to pick a king? They just happened to pick the conservative candidate becuase....why? Not politics? You are still missing the point that they did a very sudden and one time 180 on the 14th amendment, even they knew it was against everything they had ever said was "constitutional" leading them to note that this case isn't to be treated as case law. The only time the supreme court should get involved with this when Bush shows up. Every law professer in the world was left scratching their head and wondering what the hell happened. You really think that was a sage, wise decision? In order to "clean things up" they had to take the power away from the florida state supreme court? When did any of those justices ever shoot down state law?
If they really had to get involved they could have settled things with a toin coss. It happens in local elections occasionaly when there is a tie. I used to feel that it was an interesting paradox that the greatest defender of liberty in the United States was a lifelong appointed non-democratic division. They have earned the unending contempt of anyone who ever believed that the Supreme Court can be depended upon
I know you can't believe that. After Bush vs. Gore no sane person feels that the current supreme court takes the rule of law seriously. Even the five who voted on that won't talk about it because it is so embarassing to try to defend. The five hard core states right justices intervene under 14th amendment provisions that they have NEVER, EVER agreed with before to take the decision out of the hands of the state whose sovereignty they would NEVER, EVER question in any other case and declare their boy the winner. You still have faith in those people?
I do see the threat. I'm just saying that I think we are up to the challenge. :)
So they got Yahoo to cave in? That was a large corporate entity which faced being ip blocked and losing revenue from countries. When you say the entire internet is subject to restriction I don't think that is possible. Some country somewhere will not cave in and their economy will see a huge boost as skyscrapers full of server farms move in.
I think the U.S. may make laws and monitor me. As that happens we'll move to bluetooth networks, repeater stations at strategic locations, etc.. I won't be run off the internet, we are smarter and faster than they are.
I understand your frustration with people who aren't open to ideas without having any to replace them. However, I'm going to do just that. The converse of that idea is that we just do anything regardless of whether it helps or not.
I'm terrified by the reaction of this country far more than terrorists. I'm wondering what "terrorist" means. The wierd totalitarian things that have happened here have fueled my paranoia. The White House issuing a statement telling people they have to "watch what they say" has me wondering if "terrorist" might mean anyone who dares dissent.
I'd rather let things cool down for awhile. The way terrorist cells operate is that after an action everybody flees and goes back into cover. We have awhile to think about this. I think it would be a very good thing to let these decisions come at a more cool headed time.
Actually if you still follow this thread, my reply was to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21995&cid=2355 387
I wasn't following it that close after that, but I did read your other comments. I've got a little second-hand knowledge about Columbia. This is just something to think about. What we do down there is keep sniper positions on the routes that drug smugglers usually use. We kill people who use those roads. They may be up to no good. They may just be trying to stay the hell away from the para-militarys that we support. They are just as likely to grab your stuff and kill you as FARC rebels or anyone else out there.
We essentially use terror to keep people on the beaten paths.
I'm just passsing this on because you seem fairly up on what is happening in the world. Make your own judgements on what is terrorism or what it isn't.
Admitted to being one I think is a huge key. Right now is not a great time to be an evil hacker in front of a jury. He might have just decided it was best to plea and get what he possibly could. I just can't imagine this newspapers perl scripts or whatever he had as having resale value. Is anybody in that market? It just seems insane to me. Seems like he would have had an easier time hacking apart slashcode to get what he wanted.
On the other hand, he may have done something just like that. I'm just saying these are interesting times. I wouldn't take a confession of guilt to mean that the release put out is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
That's actually kinda funny. After we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima Truman made this long speech about how Hiroshima was a military base. That we hadn't attacked helpless civilians, they were just in the way.
No politician ever comes out and says we will attack civilians for terror purposes. Well, unless Osama counts, I guess he's a wierd sort of politician but he doesn't have borders and he knows his entire constituancy is behind him. A conventional politician has to appeal to a little more broad base.
Actually I was wondering where all the euro's had gone lately. I think silly ass chest pounding in uninteresting. I'm a long, long, long, way from a pacifist. As a matter of fact I'm a fairly brutal asshole when it comes to people who go after me and mine.
This does not mean I can just turn off my brain and quit thinking. Israeli's are crazy, they've been driven crazy by terrorism and do crazy things. The difference between them and us is that at least they know what they have done. They understand the causes and the issues. If you really believe we've only used military force against civilians once (I don't even know what you could be referring to) then you obviously don't keep in touch with reality.
I've got a friend in the 101st airborne who just got back from tours in Columbia and Korea. He was showing me his souvenier pics which included him standing over all kinds of different bodies with handwritten signs that said "11th confirmed kill" or whatever the number that it happened to be and the date. He knows damn well that there is no way to draw a line and come up with "that is a rebel" and "that is a civilian". He and I might disagree about foreign policy but we both understood the reality.
That's just one example that I can come up with where the U.S. military is killing civilians as we speak. That doesn't count the regimes that we give military aid to and tacit support.
Do you know how the fundamentalist governments came to power? With some exeptions (notably Iran) we installed non-democratic religous governments after World War II to try and keep them from voting in a pro-soviet communist leader. All this talk about we were attacked because we love democracy makes me ill.
As it turned out the culture of those countries was absolutely resistant to Soviet Influence anyway, they didn't like the godless commies any more than the CIA did.
Nobody is asking the US to just write a blank check to the rest of the world. blah
>snip
Now you've totally lost me. Why do we have to send baywatch episodes along with schools and economic aid that is string free? We're stuck in situations where the countrys that will line up for us are governed by regimes the CIA installed long ago. If they could actually run their country without American intervention in the actual process of government you lose the fanatics. No, you are never going to have Bin Laden singing the praises of the decadent west, but him and those like him lose their appeal over the masses.
Their culture and religion is flawed? I don't particularly want to live my life in a muslim way either, but it's not so much wierder than christian fundamentalists here. I wouldn't want a holy crusade coming to get me because I live in a country with crazy religious fanatics (meaning the United States)
You've been fooled. You watched the hand the magician was waving. Have you ever the Arab press? Other than the little bits that get pulled out and put on CNN when some crazy asshole the equivalent of that cunt from the paper saying we should invade and convert all the muslims to christianity by force says something similarly stupid?
Please read more
Israel does not spend it's monetary resourses on it's "security". Israel is the United States largest benifactor of foreign aid in the world by large. They recieve $2 billion dollars largely for military assistance. Those helicopters and fighters that bomb nearly random palestinians whenever there is a terror attack in some mindless game of tit for tat may as well have big pictures of uncle sam on them.
What they have done doesn't work. We are now Israel and we need to come up with something better than they have.
Americans need to come to grips with the fact that the U.S. government does things in their name in the Arab world that we are too lazy or ADD prone or whatever the fuck is wrong with us that we can't be pulled away from whatever fluffy story in the news is on.
Get informed.
href=http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/English/DecFe b99/bowdish.htm
Psyops is in full force. We are at an extremely high threatcon level. The rage against the machine message board was closed by the Secret Service and there were some credible tactical reasons for doing so, but that shows you where we have went today.
The big radio companys are under orders not to play a huge list of songs and that is really, really wierd, I was just at the page where the list of songs were, I went back to memepool to grab the url it was gone. This goes way beyond extra security checks. This is scaring the shit out of me ten times as much those planes. I'm not even going to try and clean up my post as I'm worried that the first link I posted will disappear as well. Maybe the sky really is falling.
I wonder if anybody has told Ronnie Reagan that his freedom fighters and the "moral equivalent of our founding fathers" have blown up the fucking pentagon.
This is a horrible situation for the entire anti-globalization movement. When you talk to the educated people who are in the Bin Laden organization..and yes the people at the top are highly educated. The issues they bring forward are the same as the movement. They want debt relief for third world countries. They want Israel to get back in it's borders.
I was going to go to the IMF protests in Washington DC on september 30. They postponed the meeting, but I would have been in an incredible dillema. There was characterization of the protesters before as some kind of wierd pinko loonie group. I'm sure now we would be characterized as terrorists. The highly visible people in the movement are in a horrible situation, if you don't want to just shut up and get on the kill Arabs bandwagon you are forced to say exactly what Saddam Hussein did, that American foreign policy brought this tragedy.
For the record, I am all for bringing out Death Squads to try and cut these organization out of operational levels. However if afterward you don't implement something like the Marshall plan in Europe after WWII you have solved nothing.
I hate giving terrorists a victory, but we really did need to rething our foreign policy. We got complacent, secure in our belief that no country could oppose us. I want to wave a flag and bomb the hell out of things to, but you have to use your head.
If all the Middle East had gone up in a nuclear fireball the night of the attack, I'd have cheered and bared my fangs like an ape. It's a few days later, I can think now. I won't lie, there are a few, very, very few people in the globalization movement that probably did think positively of the attack.