Since the average Linux user is not capable of setting up a Windows 2000 network in a few hours, this proves that Windows users are smarter than Linux users.
since the average windows 2000 user is not capable of setting up a windows 2000 network in a few hours either, this proves that Windows users are not smarter than Linux users.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Incorrect. There is no Athlon DDR moterboard released yet, but RDR (and SDR, obviously) motherboards are plentiful. We compare what's available, not vaporware.
RDRAM motherboards for the P4 are not "plentiful" The only ones that exist are the intel boards and the asus, two motherboards does not count as being plentiful.
And DDR motherboards are not "vaporware." Vaporware products are products that do not exist. DDR systems are available from places like Micron.
Well, where's AMD's compiler then? The benchmarks are compiled with the vendor's compiler of choice. WHat the results mean is that with the best available compiler, the P4 performs much better than Athlon. With the average compile, this might not be the case, but anybody who is the least bit performance conscious is going to recompile everything.
The fact that the benchmarks were done with an intel compiler shows that the results are biased toward one vendor. What if the test was done with gcc? how would the results turn out then? And as for recompiling everything to get the most performance, how are we going to get the source code to closed-source programs?
The CPU prices are irrelevant; people buy systems, not CPU's. You can buy a P4 Gateway system for $2000. I have never seen a namebrand 1.2 GHz Athlon system for less than $1500 (though I haven't been shopping for them).
of course the cpu prices are relevant, assuming 2 systems have the same monitor/case/video card/hard drive, everything else comes down to cpu+ram+mb prices. If a p4 system can be built for $2000, then the same system can be built for a little ore than $1000 with athlon/sdr ram. Places like gateway just happens to be selling their athlon 1.2 ghz systems for more than they're worth to make more profit whereas they probably are barely making a profit with that 1.4 ghz p4 for $2000.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
first, you're comparing a 1.5 ghz Pentium 4 with rambus ram against a 1.2 ghz athlon thunderbird with sdr sdram when most 1.2 ghz athlons would probably be paired with ddr sdram. so the comparison looks more like:
cpu: specint specfp
amd 1.2 ghz ddr 496 420
amd 1.2 ghz sdr 458 350
intl 1.4 ghz 536 558
also, did you notice that the pentium 4 machine had a top of the line hard drive (ibm deskstar 75gxp) and video card (geforce2gts) whereas the amd machines used an older ibm hard drive and a diamond stealth 3d pci(WTF?!!?) on the ddr machine and a western digital hd + nvidia tnt2 m64 on the sdr machine? or how about the fact that all the tests were done with an intel compiler????
Then there's the system prices, I have no idea where you got these prices, but assuming all 3 systems use the same components except cpu+mb+ram, the prices would probably look like:
amd 1.2 ghz cpu: $300?
intel 1.4 ghz cpu w/128 rdram bundle: $1165
sdr ram, 128 MB: $56
ddr ram, 128 MB: $200?
asus p4 motherboard: $302
asus amd sdr motherboard: $140
amd ddr motherboard: $200?
(all prices taken from mwave.com, ddr prices estimated)
so, putting the cpu+mb+ram together, the costs are:
amd sdr: $496
amd ddr: $700
intel p4: $1467
so based on these figures, the p4 is OVERPRICED!
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
that doesn't mean everyone who is in college is goona be 'behind' on Real World languages. Based on your experiences, your friends went to college and came out not knowing linux/php/js/sql, but that doesn't apply to everyone. I'm (about to) go into college and I have been exposed to a lot of linux... Afterall, Linux is an operating system that was initially created as a hobby by a young student, Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland.
Besides, many people (there will always be exceptions) with a good background from what they learned in school can pick up another programming language such as js/php/perl quickly while someone who simply learned one language may not be able to learn a second language quickly because they don't really understand the concepts behind programming.<BR><BR>
OTOH, some people just can't stand school, and if they can make a living w/o school, why force them to go to college? I agree with your conclusion, but I just don't think "my college grad friends don't know linux" is a good reason for a person to skip college and join the workforce.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
uhh ya... i remember when i cheated in mechwarrior 2 and ended up with a firemoth that had 10 er lasers and can fire them continously without overheating =D
but if you had nanotech in battletech, then someone will make a nanogun that releases nanites that eat through armor... which ruins the balance of the game. Another example of technology ruining battletech is nuclear bombs. IIRC, the storyline said something about nukes being banned by all the major houses in battletech... but that's just an excuse to make the game balanced and playable so they can sell more copies of battletech merchandise... after all, what good are "fearsome" battlemechs when a single nuke can easily take out the legions of mechs?
</OT>
gee, I was so offtopic there, anyway, will nanotubes be produced and sold cheaply so that average joe's power hungry AMD Firebird / Sextium III Pro w/XXX technology will come with a nanotube heatsink rather than an aluminum heatsink? It's great how nanotubes can conduct heat so well, but if the technology doesn't become affordable, then how can we benefit from it?
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
typing Chinese isn't that hard---- if you have some sort of input program you can type in pinyin, which is the method that pretty much everyone I know uses
Not true, on a recent trip to china (last month) I asked several people about how they type mandarin using a QWERTY keyboard. I'm not sure what it's called but it basically let every key represent some basic mandarin symbol and a combonation of these symbols are used to represent a word. It looked a bit complicated but it's not that hard to learn. I also asked them whether they use pinyin as their method of input and most of them replied that pinyin is simply too slow compared to their other typing method.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
$400 is rather expensive for an IDE raid controller, but getting a few cheap IDE hard drives quickly makes up for the price of the controller. Comparing scsi hard drive prices with ide hard drive prices, an 18 gig 7200 rpm scsi hd costs ~$300 while a 20 gig 7200 rpm ide hd costs ~$150. with a 4 drive raid configuration, the IDE raid system costs (4x150)+400=$1000 while the SCSI raid system costs (4x300)+115=$1335.
so when it comes to prices, IDE is still cheaper than scsi. However, a dual channel UW scsi can have up to 30 devices on it and it uses less irqs compared to the ide raid controller which can only support 4 devices. OTOH, putting 15 hard drives on an UW scsi channel will saturate the 40 Mb/s bandwidth pretty quickly....
Zetetic Seeking; proceeding by inquiry.
Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Intel Corporation(Nasdaq:INTC) the leading developer of PC processors, today announced it has filed suit in a U.S. District Court against Advanced Micro Devices (NYSE:AMD) for infringement of U.S. Patent No. 150,000,000 which is Intel's method for creating a processor with a 256k full speed L2 cache.
"We are taking this action now, after notifying AMD on several occasions that its products are infringing our patent. The remedy sought is straightforward -- we ask them to stop infringing our patents," said an Intel spokeswoman, "Intel will not be the R&D department for its competitors. Our patent and other aspects of our processors are key to the performance and functionality of our products; they are essential to differentiate our products and brand from others."
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
even if they manage to release an 1 GHz chip, it's probably gonna be PR-1000 aka "equivalent to a 1 Ghz Pentium III" Of course, benchmarks will show it to be a bit little slower than a PIII in integer performance and more like a 500 mhz celeron in float point perf.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
There is a Linpack benchmark available http://www.aceshardware. com/Spades/read.php?article_id=156. Ace's hardware ran the test against a K7 athlon, a PIII, a celeron, and an UltraSparc II... Thunderbird kicked ass, of course, it's not exactly fair to match a 1 Gz thunderbird against a 733 PIII.
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Though I heard some rumblings (here on/. - so it must be true) that the new format might be HTML (or XML) based? If so, expect strange new tags to appear in an undocumented way...
so, uhh, can someone please explain the function of the <!seineew era sreenigne epacsteN> tag?
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
rock on! my trident 8900cl is still alive and kickin! the chip says (C) 1989 so it's been around for 11 years and it's still working just like the first day when i brought it home.
but now a days, video cards go obsolete so fast, my g200 is only 2 years old and it's already considered a piece of junk...
sigh, they just dont make video cards like they used to (=
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
well, i saw the fall for #9 coming a long time ago , after the Imagine 128 series 2, the 3d revolution took place and they never caught on. Their "Revolution 3D" and "Revolution 4" card sucked at 3d, even my lowly matrox g200 can beat the crap out of it.
It's sad to see a company that produced excellent video cards [i still remember the first Imagine 128s, 4 MEGS OF RAM BABY! (= ] but when you don't keep up with your competition you are gonna get blown out of the water (duh) A few years ago, Matrox was in a similar position as #9, both companies produced excellent 2D cards with no 3D capabilities. But Matrox managed to stay alive with the G200 which offered acceptable performance at the time and then the G400 was much faster and it had unique features like EMBM and Dualhead display. #9 OTOH, didn't produce anything good in the past few years, and once they sold their technology to S3, it was pretty much all over... Goodbye #9...
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Elench A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Slashdot Mirror
coz Prosthetic Conscience probably aint gonna fit.
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Elench
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Since the average Linux user is not capable of setting up a Windows 2000 network in a few hours, this proves that Windows users are smarter than Linux users.
since the average windows 2000 user is not capable of setting up a windows 2000 network in a few hours either, this proves that Windows users are not smarter than Linux users.
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
they'll probably have an option where you can change the color of the screen of death and market it as a feature.
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Elench
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I can finally ship packages via UPS Ground to Asia and Europe!!!
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Elench
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a cpu that costs over $1000 in a $2000 system is not a small portion of the system price dammit.
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Incorrect. There is no Athlon DDR moterboard released yet, but RDR (and SDR, obviously) motherboards are plentiful. We compare what's available, not vaporware.
RDRAM motherboards for the P4 are not "plentiful" The only ones that exist are the intel boards and the asus, two motherboards does not count as being plentiful.
And DDR motherboards are not "vaporware." Vaporware products are products that do not exist. DDR systems are available from places like Micron.
Well, where's AMD's compiler then? The benchmarks are compiled with the vendor's compiler of choice. WHat the results mean is that with the best available compiler, the P4 performs much better than Athlon. With the average compile, this might not be the case, but anybody who is the least bit performance conscious is going to recompile everything.
The fact that the benchmarks were done with an intel compiler shows that the results are biased toward one vendor. What if the test was done with gcc? how would the results turn out then? And as for recompiling everything to get the most performance, how are we going to get the source code to closed-source programs?
The CPU prices are irrelevant; people buy systems, not CPU's. You can buy a P4 Gateway system for $2000. I have never seen a namebrand 1.2 GHz Athlon system for less than $1500 (though I haven't been shopping for them).
of course the cpu prices are relevant, assuming 2 systems have the same monitor/case/video card/hard drive, everything else comes down to cpu+ram+mb prices. If a p4 system can be built for $2000, then the same system can be built for a little ore than $1000 with athlon/sdr ram. Places like gateway just happens to be selling their athlon 1.2 ghz systems for more than they're worth to make more profit whereas they probably are barely making a profit with that 1.4 ghz p4 for $2000.
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
first, you're comparing a 1.5 ghz Pentium 4 with rambus ram against a 1.2 ghz athlon thunderbird with sdr sdram when most 1.2 ghz athlons would probably be paired with ddr sdram. so the comparison looks more like:
cpu: specint specfp
amd 1.2 ghz ddr 496 420
amd 1.2 ghz sdr 458 350
intl 1.4 ghz 536 558
also, did you notice that the pentium 4 machine had a top of the line hard drive (ibm deskstar 75gxp) and video card (geforce2gts) whereas the amd machines used an older ibm hard drive and a diamond stealth 3d pci(WTF?!!?) on the ddr machine and a western digital hd + nvidia tnt2 m64 on the sdr machine? or how about the fact that all the tests were done with an intel compiler????
Then there's the system prices, I have no idea where you got these prices, but assuming all 3 systems use the same components except cpu+mb+ram, the prices would probably look like:
amd 1.2 ghz cpu: $300?
intel 1.4 ghz cpu w/128 rdram bundle: $1165 sdr ram, 128 MB: $56
ddr ram, 128 MB: $200?
asus p4 motherboard: $302
asus amd sdr motherboard: $140
amd ddr motherboard: $200?
(all prices taken from mwave.com, ddr prices estimated)
so, putting the cpu+mb+ram together, the costs are:
amd sdr: $496
amd ddr: $700
intel p4: $1467
so based on these figures, the p4 is OVERPRICED!
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Quake/Unreal Tournament/Counter-Strike/Tribes?
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
"Windows 2000: based on NT technology" ???
based on new technology technology ?
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
does anyone know where c&h is located? I wanna go check it out tomorrow!
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Elench
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It's a way of life!
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Elench
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yes Micron has make chipsets before, I remember seeing Samurai chipsets for pentiums (pro?) workstations/servers that had 64 bit pci slots.
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
that doesn't mean everyone who is in college is goona be 'behind' on Real World languages. Based on your experiences, your friends went to college and came out not knowing linux/php/js/sql, but that doesn't apply to everyone. I'm (about to) go into college and I have been exposed to a lot of linux... Afterall, Linux is an operating system that was initially created as a hobby by a young student, Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland.
Besides, many people (there will always be exceptions) with a good background from what they learned in school can pick up another programming language such as js/php/perl quickly while someone who simply learned one language may not be able to learn a second language quickly because they don't really understand the concepts behind programming.<BR><BR>
OTOH, some people just can't stand school, and if they can make a living w/o school, why force them to go to college? I agree with your conclusion, but I just don't think "my college grad friends don't know linux" is a good reason for a person to skip college and join the workforce.
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
uhh ya... i remember when i cheated in mechwarrior 2 and ended up with a firemoth that had 10 er lasers and can fire them continously without overheating =D
but if you had nanotech in battletech, then someone will make a nanogun that releases nanites that eat through armor... which ruins the balance of the game. Another example of technology ruining battletech is nuclear bombs. IIRC, the storyline said something about nukes being banned by all the major houses in battletech... but that's just an excuse to make the game balanced and playable so they can sell more copies of battletech merchandise... after all, what good are "fearsome" battlemechs when a single nuke can easily take out the legions of mechs?
</OT>
gee, I was so offtopic there, anyway, will nanotubes be produced and sold cheaply so that average joe's power hungry AMD Firebird / Sextium III Pro w/XXX technology will come with a nanotube heatsink rather than an aluminum heatsink? It's great how nanotubes can conduct heat so well, but if the technology doesn't become affordable, then how can we benefit from it?
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
>I don't think it would be a bad idea if CS/Engineering majors were required to take an ethics course.
oh but we are required to take an ethics course as CS/E majors at UCLA!
now if only BillG took an ethics course when he was in school...
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
typing Chinese isn't that hard---- if you have some sort of input program you can type in pinyin, which is the method that pretty much everyone I know uses
Not true, on a recent trip to china (last month) I asked several people about how they type mandarin using a QWERTY keyboard. I'm not sure what it's called but it basically let every key represent some basic mandarin symbol and a combonation of these symbols are used to represent a word. It looked a bit complicated but it's not that hard to learn. I also asked them whether they use pinyin as their method of input and most of them replied that pinyin is simply too slow compared to their other typing method.
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
$400 is rather expensive for an IDE raid controller, but getting a few cheap IDE hard drives quickly makes up for the price of the controller. Comparing scsi hard drive prices with ide hard drive prices, an 18 gig 7200 rpm scsi hd costs ~$300 while a 20 gig 7200 rpm ide hd costs ~$150. with a 4 drive raid configuration, the IDE raid system costs (4x150)+400=$1000 while the SCSI raid system costs (4x300)+115=$1335.
so when it comes to prices, IDE is still cheaper than scsi. However, a dual channel UW scsi can have up to 30 devices on it and it uses less irqs compared to the ide raid controller which can only support 4 devices. OTOH, putting 15 hard drives on an UW scsi channel will saturate the 40 Mb/s bandwidth pretty quickly....
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Intel Corporation(Nasdaq:INTC) the leading developer of PC processors, today announced it has filed suit in a U.S. District Court against Advanced Micro Devices (NYSE:AMD) for infringement of U.S. Patent No. 150,000,000 which is Intel's method for creating a processor with a 256k full speed L2 cache.
"We are taking this action now, after notifying AMD on several occasions that its products are infringing our patent. The remedy sought is straightforward -- we ask them to stop infringing our patents," said an Intel spokeswoman, "Intel will not be the R&D department for its competitors. Our patent and other aspects of our processors are key to the performance and functionality of our products; they are essential to differentiate our products and brand from others."
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Elench
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even if they manage to release an 1 GHz chip, it's probably gonna be PR-1000 aka "equivalent to a 1 Ghz Pentium III" Of course, benchmarks will show it to be a bit little slower than a PIII in integer performance and more like a 500 mhz celeron in float point perf.
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
There is a Linpack benchmark available http://www.aceshardware. com/Spades/read.php?article_id=156. Ace's hardware ran the test against a K7 athlon, a PIII, a celeron, and an UltraSparc II... Thunderbird kicked ass, of course, it's not exactly fair to match a 1 Gz thunderbird against a 733 PIII.
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
Though I heard some rumblings (here on /. - so it must be true) that the new format might be HTML (or XML) based? If so, expect strange new tags to appear in an undocumented way...
so, uhh, can someone please explain the function of the <!seineew era sreenigne epacsteN> tag?
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
reminds me of the phrase "we are almost pre-IPO"
(=
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Elench
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rock on! my trident 8900cl is still alive and kickin! the chip says (C) 1989 so it's been around for 11 years and it's still working just like the first day when i brought it home.
but now a days, video cards go obsolete so fast, my g200 is only 2 years old and it's already considered a piece of junk...
sigh, they just dont make video cards like they used to (=
Zetetic
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.
totl.net/Spud/
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Elench
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well, i saw the fall for #9 coming a long time ago , after the Imagine 128 series 2, the 3d revolution took place and they never caught on. Their "Revolution 3D" and "Revolution 4" card sucked at 3d, even my lowly matrox g200 can beat the crap out of it.
It's sad to see a company that produced excellent video cards [i still remember the first Imagine 128s, 4 MEGS OF RAM BABY! (= ] but when you don't keep up with your competition you are gonna get blown out of the water (duh) A few years ago, Matrox was in a similar position as #9, both companies produced excellent 2D cards with no 3D capabilities. But Matrox managed to stay alive with the G200 which offered acceptable performance at the time and then the G400 was much faster and it had unique features like EMBM and Dualhead display. #9 OTOH, didn't produce anything good in the past few years, and once they sold their technology to S3, it was pretty much all over... Goodbye #9...
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Elench
A specious but fallacious argument; a sophism.