Hasn't anyone else gotten it that MOSR is full of shit? $10 says that he made up the story (or got bad info... on Ars, one guy said he sent in info he'd made up and it got posted... on THIS story. True, I can't necessarily believe him, but he's more trustworthy than MOSR) and then had "Apple Legal" (read, himself) "pull" the story.
Oh my god!! Look! It's says "Apple Legal" has smacked down on MOSR! Oh Joy of the Heavens! It's true! It's true! Sweet Merciful Crap! They got something right!
I was keeping the proceedings recent for simplicity. Eject Disk does indeed eject the disk. It's the *image* you need to trash... I know that's cheesy, but the disk is ejected. The image must be "disposed of" and the whole thing fits the desktop metaphor just that much better.
What you assume "Ejecting the Disk" is is actually removing the disk from the desktop. Slightly different, but it's still different.
Of course, I'm not usually this literal and I apologize. It's just one of those things people always bring up and are (even on a technicality) wrong.
Check out Computer Stupidities if you think Mac users are the only ones who need to be told the obvious stuff. In case you don't realize, stupid people do use computers, and regardless of the platform they're on, they tend to get lost.
And for the record, you never *had* to drag the floppy into the trash. There is a menu item "Eject Disk."
And I haven't had to use a floppy in years. And honestly, I don't think you have either. Don't tell me it wasn't a bad idea to get rid of the floppy drive for a new user's computer.
The idea is that the Mac community at large won't notice a difference (which of course isn't possible, but anyway...). The plan is for everything to "just work."
Now, as for how this will bear out is something completely different. From what I've used of DP3 and DP4 (which is little as I have to remove my Voodoo3 to use it), it is a bit of a culture shock, not only because it's BSD, but also because of how different everything feels. The columned windows to Single Window Mode, the lack of popup folders in the Finder to even the lack of the Apple Menu (which is both a good and bad thing, but my opinion is that it leans toward bad for consistency's sake)... they'll all make a semi-veteran Mac user feel odd. The Veterans (read: those who have been forced to use more than just MacOS) can put up with it and the real newbies won't have known OS9 (let alone any before), so it doesn't matter. I still think it feels weird, just like it's weird when I use Windows or Unix, even if I can use them effectively.
The hostile ones like the ease and are probably scared that Apple won't be able to get that ease back, especially since they've heard of how hard Unix is and how different OSX is from OS9. Different is bad, right?
The skeptical ones anticipate the good things (SMP, preemtive multitasking, etc) even if they don't know what those terms mean, but also don't think Apple can pull it off...
And then people like me who know computers, and know the strengths and weaknesses of Unix and MacOS... they can't f---ing wait to get ahold of this (or maybe that's just me:))
Yes, this is off topic, but I couldn't help myself. "My other car is a cdr" is the best sig I've seen in ages! Thankfully I took that term of Scheme so I could get this joke.
You're actually saying that Linux is useful for normal people (Read: your father) if they can't even get a hold of Windows (or rather GUI's in general)? If Windows confuses the hell out of your dad, what in God's Name makes you think Linux is the answer to that problem?
And, quite frankly, Linux having better config a few years down the road means jack squat right now. Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and the amount of control you have, but it is NOT easy and should NOT be given to a normal user (And as my HCI teacher repeated constantly, we [those who work with computers regularly and know the inside and out] are NOT normal).
(oh, and the command line the author was talking about is a command line, same kind you use. They have one in MacOS X.)
He was the first one to come up with Wonkavision, which takes *people* and "splits them up into a million pieces which go whizzing through the air and come down into your TV set where they're put together again in the right order."
Apologies for the joke at someone's expense, but it's been ages since I've been able to use a good Willie Wonka reference.:)
Under MacOS X, Carbon and Cocoa run with full BSD creamy goodness and with juicy Aqua and the rest of the good services OS X brings... for the "normal" MacOS apps written in less enlightened times, they'll have the Classic Environment. It's not quite as glitzy (as of DP3, it still looked like MacOS 9), but it will allow older programs to run completely unmodified.
I think that's what you're thinking of. Carbon is the updated set of APIs. Applications will still have to be recompiled to use Carbon; it's not automatic.
Cocoa is what Apple will be pushing after everyone's made the transition, but both Cocoa and Carbon will be "native" and "true" OS X.
Well, you're mostly right. Carbon is the Mac Toolbox with all the stupid code gone (like munge, I hope). I do believe that Apple will be phasing Carbon out, but not after a looong time.
Carbon is there so Developers don't have to do a complete rewrite to get well-performing apps in OS X. I don't see them getting rid of it for years, simply because it's *that* much easier to make real OS X apps.
As for the CarbonLib for OS 9 and 8.5, that's just so developers who don't have a developer preview can still build Carbon apps... and it also allows Carbon apps that would normally only be able to be run on OS X to be run on OS 9. It's not stripped down at all (any more than is due to the limitations of OS 9 anyway, but on OS X, it rockets on like it should), just an abstraction layer.
As for Microsoft, I don't see them doing any pure Unix stuff anytime soon (aside from what they have done). OS X isn't exactly the stepping stone its BSD layer makes it out to be.
"WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" -- Maude Flanders (RIP(God bless her soul))
Well... I hate to pick nits, but I can't let this go by, I'm too much of a Simpsons nut. That's Helen Lovejoy's standard plea. In fact, I don't think Maude ever said it.
Why shouldn't the kids who are teased and beated daily be able to use this system? Why should the "normal" ones be the victims in WAVE's sight?
Rather than the Jocks picking out the Nerds and Goths and telling WAVE they're dangerous and depressed and whatnot, what about telling WAVE that the Jocks are beating the shit out of someone and mentally torturing them daily.
This will probably be used incorrectly and by the wrong people for the right reasons (especially considering the "danger" criteria) because they think the "normal" people are the ones in danger. But if Pinkerton was actually thinking of the real kids who were being victimized, they would not only avoid controversy, but they'd be going after the real source of the problem, the propagators of the misery.
It could work, they just have the intended targets backwards.
It may sound archaic, but I just go to Bookmarks:Edit Bookmarks and make catagories by hand. After that, unless I make a subfolder, they aren't catagorized, but it works... I have some 300+ bookmarks and could probably find any one with a limited search time.
It's really the only way for me to do it... I also extract all the links for my Random Link Generator (yeah, I know, inspired use of perl... took about 5 minutes work).
But I do add a good 5-10 links per day from various weblogs. Even a little catagorization can cut down on search time when I look through my Bookmarks menu, even if it's not that great.
... that the emails will be traced with the same patented Email-tracing technology that has been employed by Bill & Accosiates in all those spam chain letters? I mean, it worked for them, right? Now Aardman can see who's watching the videos!
I suppose that the free distribution part of it is the best thing. If you had to go to their site any time you wanted to watch the movie, it would get a tad annoying. But the fact that they could be making money of this (supposedly) but are giving it away instead... gold.
<shameless plug> In a related topic, my friends and I are releasing videos we make in the same manner. They're funny, trust me... and there will be more as time goes on, too. From a link on my home page you can download (and freely distribute) what movies we have. </shameless plug>
I think the point was not that you can't put up a site, but that even if you do, TW/AOL won't let you see it because they'll have control of all of the methods of getting to your site. Or, possibly, even any methods you'd have of advertising your site.
Of course, I don't really think that Rob is even really valid in this post. It sounds like he's either paranoid or wants to get us paranoid. Even if "the Man" controls all the top search engines that doesn't go to sites TW/AOL doesn't like, someone will make one that does. Hell, they could even make it not go to the TW/AOL sites at all.
That, and they'd have to do a lot to actually make everything on the net as controlled as Rob was saying.
load about 30 extensions and I guarantee you won't have five days of uptime.
49 Control Panels 24 Control Strip Modules 7 Contextual Menu Items 404 Extensions
All that, and I get pissed when I have to restart. And it's almost always to install a new extension. These include some that do some low level tinkering to get some nice GUI effects. I routinely have 5+ day uptimes, and I have a very heavy usage. I generally have at least 7 background tasks running, but 5-7 foreground tasks, constantly switching among them.
I crash for two reasons: One, my current coding project blows up in my face, or Netscape randomly quits. Neither requires a restart except after a few days. The MacOS is quite stable, even when you push it.
And it is Netscape's fault. No other program randomly quits like Navigator (maybe once per day or so).
Oh, and a last point to all you people who really can't understand a one button mouse, you have to realize that the MacOS was written to be used with a one button mouse. I honestly don't understand why you think it's a shortcoming of the platform that you can operate it without a two button mouse.
If I remeber correctly, the little loopy thing on the Command key is a Swedish map symbol for "interesting feature" or something like that.
I was kind of surprised when they didn't stick with just the apple, or even with the Open-apple/Closed-apple thing like on the Apple ]['s, but oh well. The Happy Blues Man
The problem being that the Sawtooth mb's (or the ones with AGP) weren't even ready when Apple started selling them. The only reason the lowest G4 model even started selling was because Apple used a modified Yosemite mb. The Sawtooth ones started shipping a month later.
That's not to say that a price difference that large is justified, but it's not because they were cheap bastards that they did it that way. The Yosemite-like (aka Tikes!) mb's will be phased out soon.
There are far too many characters in the Simpsons for someone to run out using them.
I don't have a network, but I have have several hard drives/partitions on my Mac. They all have Simpsons' icons and/or names. Right now, I have:
Lyle Lanley
Troy McClure -- both as a tribute to Phil Hartman
American Spy (the one they got in exchange for Adiel)
"Unknown Simpsons Character" -- This one gets reformatted a lot.
Used to have Jasper (I think he turned into USC above)
And the backup CDs I make also have Simpsons icons: Sideshow Rahim, Professor Frink. My Zip disks include: Chief Wiggum, Edward the Pentinent, and Jasper.
I've also given software I've written Simpsons' codenames - Jimbo, Kearney, Nelson, Krabappel, Milhouse.
I also have some Calvin & Hobbes ones I'll be using soon. I probably won't run out of icons or names anytime soon.
I had to read this post a few times to figure out exactly why it annoyed me. What exactly do you mean by "I now get..." (emphasis mine)? Is it that you don't understand how people can use a mouse? You don't see how people can get things done without a CLI? You were completely oblivious to the workings of a GUI? I don't mean this as a flame or anything, I an frankly baffled by your statement.
I'm also a little offended that you give the impression that Mac users are this unvocal, caged minority that you have to "show their point of view" or no one will understand them. Of course, if you wanted to know why a Mac user uses the MacOS, it would be easy to ask one.
Hell, I'll tell you right now why I use MacOS. Firstly, it lets me get things done. Anything I want to do, I can do the way I want to. Second, if there is something I can't do, I will write a program that will let me. Third, I like the way it lookos and feels. I don't like Win9x's taskbar. I don't like that each window has its own menubar, I don't like most of the X Servers, I do like the way the MacOS fits together. I like Apple's hardware too. It also fits together extremely well. I've taken my Mac apart a few time (in fact, I'm using it now in a mostly-apart state) and I repeatedly tell my friends that I think Apple's engineers are great.
Oh, and as for the people who don't like Apple because they make their own hardware and it's more expensive... you get what you pay for. I like having quality parts. Sure, I could buy a Celeron system for pocket change, but then I wouldn't have an Apple, would I?
Well, now I've gone off the original point of the reply, but I hope this has enlightened you a little bit.
Have you used a Mac for a length of time? If not then kindly refrain from telling me about the customization of my machine.
I can customize my machine to anything I want it to look like. I have plenty of industry standard components which allow me to use the same peripherals that PCs use (speaking of which, I have a USB mouse on my box now that was sold as a Win98 mouse).
Why, might I add, do you need the specs to the motherboard circutry? I know where everything is on my motherboard. I know quite a bit about my computer, and I haven't been sued.
Seriously, why must you continue the myth that Macs aren't good for anything really technological? Please reply to this, I would like your input so I may debunk whatever myths you might have gotten FUDed to you.
Slashdot Mirror
Hasn't anyone else gotten it that MOSR is full of shit? $10 says that he made up the story (or got bad info... on Ars, one guy said he sent in info he'd made up and it got posted... on THIS story. True, I can't necessarily believe him, but he's more trustworthy than MOSR) and then had "Apple Legal" (read, himself) "pull" the story.
Oh my god!! Look! It's says "Apple Legal" has smacked down on MOSR! Oh Joy of the Heavens! It's true! It's true! Sweet Merciful Crap! They got something right!
...bullshit is all...
The Happy Blues Man
Indeed, you are (technically) correct.
I was keeping the proceedings recent for simplicity. Eject Disk does indeed eject the disk. It's the *image* you need to trash... I know that's cheesy, but the disk is ejected. The image must be "disposed of" and the whole thing fits the desktop metaphor just that much better.
What you assume "Ejecting the Disk" is is actually removing the disk from the desktop. Slightly different, but it's still different.
Of course, I'm not usually this literal and I apologize. It's just one of those things people always bring up and are (even on a technicality) wrong.
The Happy Blues Man
Oh, piss off, you floater!
Check out Computer Stupidities if you think Mac users are the only ones who need to be told the obvious stuff. In case you don't realize, stupid people do use computers, and regardless of the platform they're on, they tend to get lost.
And for the record, you never *had* to drag the floppy into the trash. There is a menu item "Eject Disk."
And I haven't had to use a floppy in years. And honestly, I don't think you have either. Don't tell me it wasn't a bad idea to get rid of the floppy drive for a new user's computer.
The Happy Blues Man
The idea is that the Mac community at large won't notice a difference (which of course isn't possible, but anyway...). The plan is for everything to "just work."
:))
Now, as for how this will bear out is something completely different. From what I've used of DP3 and DP4 (which is little as I have to remove my Voodoo3 to use it), it is a bit of a culture shock, not only because it's BSD, but also because of how different everything feels. The columned windows to Single Window Mode, the lack of popup folders in the Finder to even the lack of the Apple Menu (which is both a good and bad thing, but my opinion is that it leans toward bad for consistency's sake)... they'll all make a semi-veteran Mac user feel odd. The Veterans (read: those who have been forced to use more than just MacOS) can put up with it and the real newbies won't have known OS9 (let alone any before), so it doesn't matter. I still think it feels weird, just like it's weird when I use Windows or Unix, even if I can use them effectively.
The hostile ones like the ease and are probably scared that Apple won't be able to get that ease back, especially since they've heard of how hard Unix is and how different OSX is from OS9. Different is bad, right?
The skeptical ones anticipate the good things (SMP, preemtive multitasking, etc) even if they don't know what those terms mean, but also don't think Apple can pull it off...
And then people like me who know computers, and know the strengths and weaknesses of Unix and MacOS... they can't f---ing wait to get ahold of this (or maybe that's just me
The Happy Blues Man
Amazing, since all you have to do is hold the button down for a second, and the menu pops up. You don't NEED a second button.
The Happy Blues Man
Yes, this is off topic, but I couldn't help myself. "My other car is a cdr" is the best sig I've seen in ages! Thankfully I took that term of Scheme so I could get this joke.
Ahh, Scheme...
The Happy Blues Man
You mean like Project Appleseed? By jove, I'd love one!
The Happy Blues Man
Wait, wait, hold on a minute...
You're actually saying that Linux is useful for normal people (Read: your father) if they can't even get a hold of Windows (or rather GUI's in general)? If Windows confuses the hell out of your dad, what in God's Name makes you think Linux is the answer to that problem?
And, quite frankly, Linux having better config a few years down the road means jack squat right now. Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and the amount of control you have, but it is NOT easy and should NOT be given to a normal user (And as my HCI teacher repeated constantly, we [those who work with computers regularly and know the inside and out] are NOT normal).
(oh, and the command line the author was talking about is a command line, same kind you use. They have one in MacOS X.)
--
He was the first one to come up with Wonkavision, which takes *people* and "splits them up into a million pieces which go whizzing through the air and come down into your TV set where they're put together again in the right order."
:)
Apologies for the joke at someone's expense, but it's been ages since I've been able to use a good Willie Wonka reference.
--
Under MacOS X, Carbon and Cocoa run with full BSD creamy goodness and with juicy Aqua and the rest of the good services OS X brings... for the "normal" MacOS apps written in less enlightened times, they'll have the Classic Environment. It's not quite as glitzy (as of DP3, it still looked like MacOS 9), but it will allow older programs to run completely unmodified.
I think that's what you're thinking of. Carbon is the updated set of APIs. Applications will still have to be recompiled to use Carbon; it's not automatic.
Cocoa is what Apple will be pushing after everyone's made the transition, but both Cocoa and Carbon will be "native" and "true" OS X.
--
Well, you're mostly right. Carbon is the Mac Toolbox with all the stupid code gone (like munge, I hope). I do believe that Apple will be phasing Carbon out, but not after a looong time.
Carbon is there so Developers don't have to do a complete rewrite to get well-performing apps in OS X. I don't see them getting rid of it for years, simply because it's *that* much easier to make real OS X apps.
As for the CarbonLib for OS 9 and 8.5, that's just so developers who don't have a developer preview can still build Carbon apps... and it also allows Carbon apps that would normally only be able to be run on OS X to be run on OS 9. It's not stripped down at all (any more than is due to the limitations of OS 9 anyway, but on OS X, it rockets on like it should), just an abstraction layer.
As for Microsoft, I don't see them doing any pure Unix stuff anytime soon (aside from what they have done). OS X isn't exactly the stepping stone its BSD layer makes it out to be.
... just in case anyone cared.
--
And I SURPISED no one has quoted the simpsons yet
"WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" -- Maude Flanders (RIP(God bless her soul))
Well... I hate to pick nits, but I can't let this go by, I'm too much of a Simpsons nut. That's Helen Lovejoy's standard plea. In fact, I don't think Maude ever said it.
Anyway, that was useless. I apologize.
--
Why shouldn't the kids who are teased and beated daily be able to use this system? Why should the "normal" ones be the victims in WAVE's sight?
Rather than the Jocks picking out the Nerds and Goths and telling WAVE they're dangerous and depressed and whatnot, what about telling WAVE that the Jocks are beating the shit out of someone and mentally torturing them daily.
This will probably be used incorrectly and by the wrong people for the right reasons (especially considering the "danger" criteria) because they think the "normal" people are the ones in danger. But if Pinkerton was actually thinking of the real kids who were being victimized, they would not only avoid controversy, but they'd be going after the real source of the problem, the propagators of the misery.
It could work, they just have the intended targets backwards.
--
It may sound archaic, but I just go to Bookmarks:Edit Bookmarks and make catagories by hand. After that, unless I make a subfolder, they aren't catagorized, but it works... I have some 300+ bookmarks and could probably find any one with a limited search time.
It's really the only way for me to do it... I also extract all the links for my Random Link Generator (yeah, I know, inspired use of perl... took about 5 minutes work).
But I do add a good 5-10 links per day from various weblogs. Even a little catagorization can cut down on search time when I look through my Bookmarks menu, even if it's not that great.
--
... that the emails will be traced with the same patented Email-tracing technology that has been employed by Bill & Accosiates in all those spam chain letters? I mean, it worked for them, right? Now Aardman can see who's watching the videos!
Yeah for spam-mail!
--
I suppose that the free distribution part of it is the best thing. If you had to go to their site any time you wanted to watch the movie, it would get a tad annoying. But the fact that they could be making money of this (supposedly) but are giving it away instead... gold.
<shameless plug>
In a related topic, my friends and I are releasing videos we make in the same manner. They're funny, trust me... and there will be more as time goes on, too. From a link on my home page you can download (and freely distribute) what movies we have.
</shameless plug>
--
I think the point was not that you can't put up a site, but that even if you do, TW/AOL won't let you see it because they'll have control of all of the methods of getting to your site. Or, possibly, even any methods you'd have of advertising your site.
Of course, I don't really think that Rob is even really valid in this post. It sounds like he's either paranoid or wants to get us paranoid. Even if "the Man" controls all the top search engines that doesn't go to sites TW/AOL doesn't like, someone will make one that does. Hell, they could even make it not go to the TW/AOL sites at all.
That, and they'd have to do a lot to actually make everything on the net as controlled as Rob was saying.
--
load about 30 extensions and I guarantee you won't have five days of uptime.
49 Control Panels
24 Control Strip Modules
7 Contextual Menu Items
404 Extensions
All that, and I get pissed when I have to restart. And it's almost always to install a new extension. These include some that do some low level tinkering to get some nice GUI effects. I routinely have 5+ day uptimes, and I have a very heavy usage. I generally have at least 7 background tasks running, but 5-7 foreground tasks, constantly switching among them.
I crash for two reasons: One, my current coding project blows up in my face, or Netscape randomly quits. Neither requires a restart except after a few days. The MacOS is quite stable, even when you push it.
And it is Netscape's fault. No other program randomly quits like Navigator (maybe once per day or so).
Oh, and a last point to all you people who really can't understand a one button mouse, you have to realize that the MacOS was written to be used with a one button mouse. I honestly don't understand why you think it's a shortcoming of the platform that you can operate it without a two button mouse.
The Happy Blues Man
If I remeber correctly, the little loopy thing on the Command key is a Swedish map symbol for "interesting feature" or something like that.
I was kind of surprised when they didn't stick with just the apple, or even with the Open-apple/Closed-apple thing like on the Apple ]['s, but oh well.
The Happy Blues Man
The problem being that the Sawtooth mb's (or the ones with AGP) weren't even ready when Apple started selling them. The only reason the lowest G4 model even started selling was because Apple used a modified Yosemite mb. The Sawtooth ones started shipping a month later.
That's not to say that a price difference that large is justified, but it's not because they were cheap bastards that they did it that way. The Yosemite-like (aka Tikes!) mb's will be phased out soon.
The Happy Blues Man
Heh... whenever my friends start up a Quake server that they don't want the rest of the LAN getting in to, they set the password to 1234.
:)
Although if I remeber, we told it to someone who we didn't want playing later, so we had to change it to 2345.
The Happy Blues Man
I don't have a network, but I have have several hard drives/partitions on my Mac. They all have Simpsons' icons and/or names. Right now, I have:
And the backup CDs I make also have Simpsons icons: Sideshow Rahim, Professor Frink. My Zip disks include: Chief Wiggum, Edward the Pentinent, and Jasper.
I've also given software I've written Simpsons' codenames - Jimbo, Kearney, Nelson, Krabappel, Milhouse.
I also have some Calvin & Hobbes ones I'll be using soon. I probably won't run out of icons or names anytime soon.
The Happy Blues Man
I had to read this post a few times to figure out exactly why it annoyed me. What exactly do you mean by "I now get..." (emphasis mine)? Is it that you don't understand how people can use a mouse? You don't see how people can get things done without a CLI? You were completely oblivious to the workings of a GUI? I don't mean this as a flame or anything, I an frankly baffled by your statement.
I'm also a little offended that you give the impression that Mac users are this unvocal, caged minority that you have to "show their point of view" or no one will understand them. Of course, if you wanted to know why a Mac user uses the MacOS, it would be easy to ask one.
Hell, I'll tell you right now why I use MacOS. Firstly, it lets me get things done. Anything I want to do, I can do the way I want to. Second, if there is something I can't do, I will write a program that will let me. Third, I like the way it lookos and feels. I don't like Win9x's taskbar. I don't like that each window has its own menubar, I don't like most of the X Servers, I do like the way the MacOS fits together. I like Apple's hardware too. It also fits together extremely well. I've taken my Mac apart a few time (in fact, I'm using it now in a mostly-apart state) and I repeatedly tell my friends that I think Apple's engineers are great.
Oh, and as for the people who don't like Apple because they make their own hardware and it's more expensive... you get what you pay for. I like having quality parts. Sure, I could buy a Celeron system for pocket change, but then I wouldn't have an Apple, would I?
Well, now I've gone off the original point of the reply, but I hope this has enlightened you a little bit.
The Happy Blues Man
Hahahaha! Wow. That was completely a brain fart for me.
Allow me to clarify: I've used the floppy drive approximately twice in the time I've used the computer.
It's amazing how your brain knows what you're talking about, but no one else does.
The Happy Blues Man
Have you used a Mac for a length of time? If not then kindly refrain from telling me about the customization of my machine.
I can customize my machine to anything I want it to look like. I have plenty of industry standard components which allow me to use the same peripherals that PCs use (speaking of which, I have a USB mouse on my box now that was sold as a Win98 mouse).
Why, might I add, do you need the specs to the motherboard circutry? I know where everything is on my motherboard. I know quite a bit about my computer, and I haven't been sued.
Seriously, why must you continue the myth that Macs aren't good for anything really technological? Please reply to this, I would like your input so I may debunk whatever myths you might have gotten FUDed to you.
The Happy Blues Man