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Possible Pics Of The New Apple Mouse
The Wookie writes: "Appleinsider have some pictures of the rumoured Apple buttonless, cordless mouse here." That is one weirdass looking little device. No clue if it's legit or not, but if it's for real, it'll be one billion times better than the horrible hockey puck.
I think it is to give the user some feedback that their keystroke or mouse-click was successfull. Just like the little beeps on microwave buttons.
If it didn't make any noise, most people wouldn't feel like they had done anything, and if the computer didn't respond immediately, they would think that their click didn't work and they would start clicking again.
I would find it very annoying to not have the click. I guess you could replace the click with some kind of physical feeling that tells the user "you did it right," but it would probably be hard to do that without making a noise.
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What the hell? Someone stuck my identity on there. Someone really needs to get a life.
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Silly boy. Isn't it past your bedtime?
the article was from ZDNet and is a totally different rendition of the mouse?! Instead of being squeezed the mouse works off of a tapping motion?!
CAD, kicked, good
Here are some enviroments the IntelliMouse probably can't work in:
1) The inside of a sealed microchip wafer handling enclosure that DOESN'T CONTAIN A COMPUTER, and doesn't have a gap for the cable to come out.
2) Shreader. Try turning on your shreader and rolling your IntelliMouse over the top. I bet it stops when you get to the bit with the rotating blades!!
3) 500m water. Particularly if you take the plastic off first. And don't do anything to stop the water pressure crushing it.
4) On a curved of 120-watt lightbulbs which are lashing randomly.
5) On an oven hot-plate set to 800 degrees centigrade.
6) On a plate of Frankium, whilst being exposed to copious amounts of Flourine.
7) On a skier's gas powered wax-melting heater, whilst there is wax on it.
8) In a decompression chamber set to 75 feet.
9) On top of a cheese and tobato pizza.
10) Air, Whilst skydiving.
11) In space, with nothing to rest it on.
12) In a gas-chamber.
13) Gravel.
14) Sand.
15) Burning coals.
etc...
Got you there, didn't I?
Michael Tandy
"Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
1. The original mice concept as envisioned by Xerox had 3 buttons all doing a vairety of tasks. Apple did a bag o' research that showed that mis-hits were common amongst users learning new tasks. The solution? The double click. Imagine life without the double-click...
2. Two button mice were "developed" (note the quotes) to give users contextual menues. Contextual menues were developed to make up for the fact that a particular OS that shall remained unnamed (ok, windows) had such a terrible set of rules for system menues that it was almost impossible to get stuff done. Menues attached to application windows, menues attached document windows, menues attached to folder windows.... where the $@#%! is "copy" or "paste"? Hence, the second button.
3. Contextual menues were also the saviour to the crisis of badly designed hot keys. I want to close a window... is it ctrl-w, alt-w or alt-F4 (nobel prize for counter-intuitive design to whoever came up with that one). Quitting an application? Could be q, could be x. On the mac, quit is always cmd-Q, close is always cmd-W, undo is always Z. Always. With these commands standardized across all apps, contextual menues are unneccessary...
4. In order to get some mindshare off the Winders flock, Apple caved in and offered contextual menues. Just hold down the control key. No second mouse button required.
XWindows has context-based menus/menus on other mouse buttons. Windows has them too. You know the real reason why?
Because you hit the button, and then move your mouse a fraction, and you're done.
So what if menus are in the wrong place on a Windows machine? Clicking a button and then moving the mouse to an immediately relevant option for the task at hand is a lot faster than moving your mouse to the top of the screen, holding down the button, dragging down to the relevant option and releasing. Because you have to find the menu you want, and then remember which item under that menu you need - which you might not until you see it.
So basically, the right-mouse button context menu is an excellent short way to get stuff done. Simply because:
1. It requires no slam n hunt mouse moves to find what are the most likely current menu items.
2. It ties available actions to their counterparts on the screen.
3. It gives you the most likely operations you'll want to perform immediately, with a single click.
4. It's quicker to find the option you want on a context menu that appears 2 pixels to the right and down from your mouse cursor, than it is to do the same when you have to go to the top of the screen and then open menus up to do the same thing.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Oh, yeah? What about on the surface of an exploding volcano?? while your gf shines a highly concentrated particle beam directly at the laser? huh? huh? Gotcha there didn't I? :)
I just tried it. It works. I'll write more when my skin smells less like smoky bacon.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Back in the days of Windows 3.0, I read an article in some magazine (PC World, I'm pretty sure), that said it takes an average of 8 minutes for a newbie to figure out how to start Write with the mouse, without assistance. This was attributed to the double-click -- one of the least intuitive user interface designs ever invented. Offhand, I can't think of any non-computer application that requires one to quickly press a button twice in order to get a response.
The main problem I have with cordless mice is that they are too easy to lose. I lose my Palm Pilot on my desks regularly (at home and at work). Who has time to be organized these days... and with so many gadgets to keep track of it's easy to make a mess of things on any desk.
:)
Most GUIs aren't configured to be *easy* to use without a mouse, so losing your mouse could be a Bad Thing(tm). I wonder if Apple has considered this.
Perhaps the people over at Apple will be clever and include a built-in Clapper(tm) in their new mice. Lost your mouse? Just clap a few times and it will squeek back at you, or better yet it will scurry around a bit till you see some papers on your desk moving around.
Just a thought.
--SONET
"Open bombay doors!"
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
.01 Microsoft Intellimouse .02 Wacom Tablet .03 Kensington Expert Mouse The MI is darn near perfect for most menial tasks. The WT for Gimp, Illustrator, or Photoshop on my winbox. And finally the KEM (which is a very large trackball for those of you who are wondering) for gaming. If you're wondering, just try Descent with it.. I can't think of anything else that it's good for, or anything that;s better than it at what it does.
Are YOU listed?
Those old Sun optical mice were crap. Ever use one of those things in a public lab after a month or so? Those optical pads (which were necessary for use, unlike the MS optical mouse) got scratched up pretty badly... The fun result was lots of "dead spots" were mouse movement wouldn't register. That got old pretty quick.
At least he doesn't use "alot". I can take anything but that.
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Surprisingly enough, if you take out that little hunk of electronics, you can toss a keyboard in a dishwasher. Works like a charm - just lay it out to dry, or grab a paper towel. I used to do it all the time at work.
-- Karma is for people who think they matter.
Uh, couldn't you put the mouse next to the keyboard? You know, just a couple inches past the keypad? Or if you have too much crap on your desk (like me), you can always put it between the board and you...
Intolerant people should be shot.
That's my problem with Apple: they design for "users learning new tasks", not for experienced users. Making a UI that's easy to learn is a great way of hooking new users on your product, but it doesn't serve them well in the long run. I suppose Apple serves the masses as well as MacDonalds does, but thank goodness not all computers are designed by Apple.
Using hand muscles isn't exactly burning off the calories, but it is creating RSI problems...
Intolerant people should be shot.
First off I would like to say... has anyone noticed that, well, the mouse ONLY fits right-handed people? The renditions, I mean, look at them, the hand that fits the mouse is only the right hand. And so the 10% of the population gets ripped off, for the mouse doesnt fit them!
.5sec minimum), moving back to the screen and locating what I was doing (1 sec?). That's a wasted 2 seconds every time I stop using the keyboard to use the mouse.
You're right, but you're missing a bigger point. With a mouse (and, with that damn puck), your handsize is irrelavent. My hands are in the top 5% as regards size, and my palm covers an entire mouse. I don't use the palm--only the fingers. With this device, it looks as if a palmrest is integrated, meaning I'll be resting my palm on the groove in the back, while my thumb will miss the contact on the side, since it's anchored at the base of an 8" long hand (wrist to fingers, roughly, straight fingers). People with small hands will likely be in less trouble, but anyone who's even a bit large will start having problems, I think.
Second off, the Puck. Many people have complained about the puck, and I frankly don't see why. The puck is designed for use in a certain position, where your palm does _not_ rest on the mouse, merely the fingers.
As I said, I do this naturally. Regardless, I can grab a mouse (in this case, a default gateway MSmouse on my mom's computer) and know how it's aligned, and align it correctly. With a puck, I grab it and it just might be twisted 30 degrees or so so my fingers don't bump into the cord on the back. So, when I move right, the mouse moves up at a 30 degree angle. That is my complaint with the mouse--it requires extra steps to use: I have to visually determine its orientation, and then move it awkwardly into the correct position, rather than feeling the angle of the top corner of the mouse and knowing how to turn it without moving my eyes to the mouse (.5sec minimum), looking (another
The only fault I see is that there is only one button, but then again, the Mac OS only needs one.
Third, about the squeezing part... I really don't think it will be a pain to squeeze or push what appears to be five?! "pressure spots"? and a pseudo scroll wheel...
But I thought you just said it only needs 1. So how come Apple suddenly thinks it needs 5 and a wheel?!?
It is cool that Apple is innovating... cordless mouse with an optical sensor, and the most shocking part, _no_ buttons, all *standard* with their new macs (hopefully).
Perhaps I'm being foolish here, but if you push it and it reacts, it's a button. Unless the sensitivity is important (different actions for different whacks), it's a button.
As regards another poster's comment about contextual menus and such: I think we can all agree that just about all UIs currently suck (at least in some significant way or another). That being said, the ability to do lots of stuff is never bad. That I can do tons of things with two buttons and a wheel (which, at least on the MS mice, is a button too), says alot. I can't scroll a window in netscape on a mac without the keyboard or without hitting tiny scroll arrows or the bar. I can't sit back, pull out some mouse cord, cradle the damn thing upside down because it's more comfortable, and scroll while I read. Why is having this feature a drawback? Note: I'm not saying windows doesn't suck. I'm not saying lots of stuff couldn't be better, including the wheel. I'm just saying that in many cases (particularly mine, since I've got the most experience being me), it's better.
Re: ZDNet article: can someone explain "In a way, the entire mouse will act as a button: Pushing down on it rocks the top of the mouse, causing a click."? The top panel of the mouse in hinged? Why? What's wrong with a button? Why does it have to kick up some other part of the mouse when you click? I must be missing something here. Also, as regards the inference of possible side-rocking action, this had better not be true. When you rock a mouse to the side, it moves. Try it. Really. It does. Now pretend that somewhere in that rocking motion, a click occurs, except that your cursor is moving when you click. This is a no. I will lose all faith in Apple as a company that can design mice if they do this. And if my reading on the rocking sentence is correct, they're going to lose major points there too. Anyone got firmer info?
Now, since it's 4 in the morning, I'm going to be unconscious for some time.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
This makes me think. Obviously the new mouse is designed to be ergonomic, or at least shaped to fit the hand. All of the ergonomic mice I've ever seen have been right-only or left-only; is it even possible to have an ambidexterous ergonomic design?
I'm reminded of Microsoft's IntelliMouse Explorer. I own one and I feel it's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used. Microsoft tried to cover the lefties by releasing the IntelliMouse "Optical" a while later. I've tried it in the stores and it seems to lose all of the feel of the Explorer (mostly due to a button you're forced to hit with your pinky).
Oh, as to why we hate the puck: the raised hand movement is absolutely terrible for control and produces strain. It is the absolute antithesis to ergonomic design.
Is that unusual? My keyboard gets wet fairly often, and a few years back (486 66DX was a serious piece of hardware. How long ago was that?) I accidentally dumped about half a litre of coke onto my buddy's board. Didn't work while wet, but a couple hours later, everything was fine (well, a little sticky, but the cheap piece of junk was still inputing.)
Intolerant people should be shot.
Pretty boxes are all well and good, but should curtain-clashing or the lack thereof be more important than what's inside the little monstrosity? (I don't think they're pretty, I think they're gaudy. It's the seventies decor + translucency!!!)
Intolerant people should be shot.
Copy: ctrl+c Cut: ctrl+x Paste: ctrl+v I always liked those :)
Alright, first, I'll get the obligatory funny link of the post out of the way (the StupidaMouse). Now, on with the meat of the post:
Optical mice? No balls or wheels to get dirty? Great! I can cross the Q-tips and rubbing alcohol out of my office supply list.
Cordless? Wonderful! No longer will I have to put up with that pesky mouse sliding away from me and causing focus to switch to some other window.
But removing the buttons; is this really necessary?
It makes it easier to click. Well, that's all good. I'm all for easier and more free movement. But still, given the choice between a standard PS/2 mouse for $5, and Apple's optical, cordless, buttonless wonder for $80, which do you think people are going to pay for?
Then again, let's not forget we're talking about Apple here; saved by the iMac which newbies plunked down their dead presidents for because it was pretty. Who knows what they'll do next.
If you need me, I'll be off painting the Brooklyn Bridge turquoise.
PS: Relax, you Mac zealots. I'm not bashing Macs - just the dummies who buy them because they don't clash with the curtians.
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Ther's a different take on this topic at ZDNet here. Personally, I think the artist's rendition in the ZDNet article is more likely than the rendering in the article linked above. Apple's never produced a right-hand-only peripheral, and I'd like to think they never would - in fact, they've been very careful in allowing both left- and right-handed use of their mice until now, by providing ADB ports on both sides of their keyboards (same for USB, I guess).
Actually, MS's Intellimouse is a license of an HP product.
Does HP make their own version of it? It would be interesting to compare the products.
However, from Apple's perspective I don't see why this is usefull if it costs more to produce.
I take it you haven't used one? They are incredibly smooth and good. A mech mouse just doesn't compare. It would be interesting to see a manufacturing cost comparison. It would seem like a mechanical mouse ought to be cheaper, but the optical mouse is really just an LED, a sensor, and probably a more sophisticated microprocessor. The costs may not be that far out of line.
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
> Copy: ctrl+c Cut: ctrl+x Paste: ctrl+v I :)
/.er till you realize that ctrl+c, ctrl+k (u or t), and ctrl+p would be two handed operations for most people in this right handed world. Humm i wonder why the decided on x, c, and v... that's weird... they all seem to be within easy one-handed reaching distance from the ctrl key. Hummm... and they're all next to each other... duh. Tom
> always liked those
Sounds funny to the average
Tom the Sigless
Adding contextual menus is a mistake Apple made. They did it just because Windows had it and users were lost when they first used a Mac. It's one of the think in the MacOS that shouldn't be here. It's slow because it's badly implemented and not intuitive at all.
Anyway, there is always another way to do it, wich is usualy faster and more intuitive.
Something else I was just thinking about is how do you do a click, hold and drag? That seems like it would be way to complicated to drag while tilting the mouse.
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Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Don't get me wrong here, I like apples, but who really likes mice. I know when I was a kid in Russia, my mom used to chase them away with a broom. Damn pesky mice. And as far as I remember, squeezing a mouse doesn't make it work, it just forces it to make a high pitched squeal that can only be remedied by a stronger squeeze. The funny thing is that after that second squeeze, the mouse never does move anymore. I always found that odd. But hey, if you like mice and apples, alright. That's all I have to say. Go Moscow!
"Hey Apple: Compare the number of muscles and effort required to push your index finger. Now compare how many muscles are involved in tilting the whole mouse."
You know, some technology company finally comes up with a way to make exercise fun, and you have to go and cast it in an evil light. Using more muscles is better. If only we could control the amount of force necessary to execute that click, we could make some real progress. For me, I'd like to walk up to some hot chick (no, not politically correct, ask me if I care) and say, "Hey baby, I can mouse press 450 foot pounds."
Windows is going the way of phlogiston...
Well, better hope Apple doesn't try to patent their buttonless mouse, cos this is clearly prior art :)
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Oh come now, changing batteries in a remote control takes as much effort. Knowing when to is the same: "Hmmm, not working... I haven't changed batteries in a year... There, it works again."
The battery is not a "geek" concept. If you think you're oh-so-smart for knowing about batteries, then you're friggin' deluded.
Then again, my mom prefers Linux
I've actually taken a day-long "design for ergonomics" class geared for improving ergonomics in the workplace (in this case, on an assembly line) and one of the things that they stressed is that while, say, a hammer with indentations for the user's fingers may look like an ergonomic design, this is probably true for only a small percentage of the population.
:-)
This is because the people with hands/fingers that are larger or smaller than the provided indentations will find that they've got half their fingers in indentations, and the other half on ridges (for example). A handle that's smoothly curved, or perhaps one that conforms to each individual hand, is a much better design.
So, I have to wonder, looking at this mouse, how many people will find it comfortable, with those pre-ordained little pockets for your fingers.
I wish the DOJ had suggested a 3rd company - Microsoft Hardware. Damn, I do love the ol' MS mouse. And now that they've got the LED/Laser version, mmmm.... nothing better!
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How did a buttonless mouse ever get out of the "is this gonna fly" meeting?...
A hint to Apple: Change for the sake of change is not "innovation".
What meeting? This isn't a product announcement by Apple. It's a story on a rumor site. The "image" is a 3D rendering that supposedly is based on some prototype of some version of a new mouse that someone saw.
You're criticizing something that 1) you haven't used yet and even worse 2) doesn't even exist yet. And if I was a pessimistic person, I would say that you're doing it just because it's something new and different from Apple. Heaven forbid Apple try to move a 20 year old industrial design into the present.
Is the mouse really so perfect that it could never be improved upon from here on out?
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Why doesnt apple just fucking use standard mice? (we need to be proprietary) FINE! BE PROPRIETARY, but give me a standard PROPRIETARY fucking mouse.
There's nothing proprietary about it. It's a USB mouse. That's it.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Apple's done a lot of good UI work, but the double-click thing is about as intuitive as haggis.
-Miles
We live, as we dream -- alone....
I have a whole cluster of Jane-Sixpacks who call me all the time for really stupid things (well, we consider them stupid). You clearly never had to troubleshoot those kind of users by phone: just to try explain that to format an image in M$ Word they have to right click on it, ("Right Click? What do you mean?") to bring up a context-menu ("What is a contextmenu?") and select "Properties" (Oh, did I mention they use a french Word which makes it only more difficult because I have an English one) ;-)
I know there is the menu-alternative, but hey...I don't know Word very well anyway
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
My keyboard gets wet fairly often
Makes me wonder what you're doing in front of your computer...
But seriously, a lot of keyboards can't handle that sort of thing. A friend's keyboard still isn't working properly after he spilled a couple of teaspoons of coffee into it. Some designs are more rugged than others.
I love my optical IntelliMouse Explorer. I haven't had any of the cord-problems that other people talk about. And I play plenty of Quake (1500 samples a second. Split-hair precision with a rail-gun..)... :-) ;-) ) convinced me to buy one.
But a cordless version would be preferrable. Before buying the IntelliMouse I preferred Logitechs cordless mice. But the fact that the IntelliMouse has no ball(s
IMO M$ should make a cordless version soon. People would buy it. I know I would.
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
lol
:)
;)
oh my god
hehehehe
I haven't laughed so hard in weeks
I think I split something
heh
good day
Does it have the microchip in it like other US Hockey pucks?
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
... by a bigfoot...splotch.
http://www.welton.it/davidw/
That silly click is the result of the tiny microswitch they use in the mouse. It moves a very short distance and has to both have a long life and provide a solid feel that bounces back. And the little buggers are noisy. Making them silent would be rather expensive, so people haven't really tried for the most part. I recall seeing some that were pretty quiet in "mouse size" (which is smaller than the average microswitch..)
the article says that you can "squeeze" the mouse to get it to click. This seems horrible on the wrists. try squeezing your current mouse. it hurts! RSI would be terrible with this. I think Apple is better than this.
Blame IBM. Alt+F4 is part of an earlier Common User Access (CUA) standard (circa 1987). OS/2's Presentation Manager was based on CUA and since Windows kinda-sorta evolved from PM (by the time Win3.0 came along anyway), it brought with it a bunch of CUA as well.
Actually, CUA was kinda cool if misguided. It defined on-screen metaphors and a range of standard user interface elements that were designed to work across platforms. Which meant that all the keystrokes defined for e.g. pull-down menus, window manipulation, moving around the screen etc, had to work regardless of whether the application was hosted on a green-screen terminal attached to a mainframe, or a pixel-addressed graphical device like PM. The idea being that Mr Big IBM Customer didn't have to retrain his/her IT staff to use a new application when it got moved onto a newer, flashier (more expensive?) platform - everything would work juuust the same way.
CUA was last seen in OS/2 v2.x's object-oriented desktop (which ran on top of PM anyway), and had a bunch of new interface elements like pop-up menus, right-clicking action and things added to the existing definitions. If you ignored the fact that it only really applied to OS/2 by then, it was still kinda cool because it applied consistently across the entire platform, regardless of application. Right-click would always ALWAYS bring up a context-menu for whatever object you were working with, ALT-F4 would always close a window, and CTRL-ESC would always bring up a window list (which you could right-click within to manipulate windows), etc etc. It took me an *age* to adjust to that keystroke being mapped to "Start" on Win9x...
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
As a Macintosh Tech, I am more than happy t use anything that isn't the fucking yo (Half yo-yo). I have long dreamed of taking the ball out of two of them, attaching a dowel between them, and making a real yo-yo out of them. The it might have a use. I love Macs, but I hate that fucking thing.
just a thought...
Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
When it goes down under windows the system completely hangs, the only thing to do is a power-cycle. Under linux on the other hand it's usually just CTL-ALT-F1 to text mode then back to X, the most i've ever had to do is restart X. Further contrast to windows the keyboard is has NEVER locked up under linux so i can always save my work.
Just one more reson why i hardly ever use that dos partition :)
Australian? Join EFA
While I generally avoid all things microsoft, I've found gamers (who absolutely love the idea of a nearly frictionless mouse that works on any surface and requires so little cleaning and maintenance) report frequently that the cheap cords on the things tend to exhibit "walkman headphones" type problems after awhile. They have a lifetime warranty, but twitch-type games are going to wear out mouse cord after mouse cord like that. Apparently there's no cordless version yet? It'd be kinda popular I think.
A couple of 3D renderings are a far cry from an actual product. I wouldn't expect to see anything on the shelves for quite a while.
there was some of the discussion a couple of days ago over here. Different article, though
CAD, kicked, good
1. Hot keys are one-handed. Thumb on cmd key, finger-of-choice elsewhere. This is possible because the cmd key is adjacent to the space bar and available on both sides of the keyboard.
2. The contextual menu is basically a bone thrown to Winders users. In the mac community they are heroically under-used. Personally, I thought they were a bad idea to begin with, but if the Winders convert wants contextuals, they're there.
3. I'm not sure if you have used a mac... but to reiterate: All the basic hot keys and menu choices for the system (close, open, paste, undo etc.) are the same across all apps. Furthermore, it is easy to navigate through the finder without touching the mouse. The arrow keys plus close & open allow you to do anything that you could do with the mouse except change views from icon to list, windowshade and spring-load. Personally, I preferr the keyboard navigation... but I'm a freak of nature that way. Ultimately, second/third mouse buttons are unneccessary because the hot key layout is good, can be used with one hand and system menus are universally identical.
end rant.
2 1337 4 u!
Hey, When is the chip I can get implanted in my brain to control the cursor coming out?
http://www.linkdj.net/
Is why Apple seems to have eliminated user testing in its product design.
There's no way they could have released the round mouse if they'd done some usability tests.
At this point, it seems that Microsoft, of all companies, has a better usability/design team than Apple. Microsoft hardware is actually pretty sweet stuff, especially when compared to Apple's latest translucent marketdroid crap.
Must be one of the signs of the apocalypse.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
okay, this is rediculous. everybody here is bashing this new Apple mouse. has anybody stopped to think that this was posted on a RUMOURS site!? it's not even released yet! there's NO proof that this is the mouse they've been working on, or if it would act or look ANYTHING like this when it is released!
for Christ's sake people, take it down! if Apple had firmly decided on what this mouse would look and feel like, they would've announced it by now. but they HAVEN'T, so wait 'til later this month and we'll see what it *really* looks like.
- j
Error:syntax error at (eval 9) line 2, at EOF
I don't believe HP has actually made a mouse using the technology, but I know I saw at least one other brand at MicroCenter that used the optical system.
Yes, in fact I <b>DO</b> have an IntelliMouse Explorer, I use it right now on my Power Mac G4. However, I don't see how Apple could market it's "smoothness" to first-time computer users, who really wouldn't know the difference.
I love mine! You can take it away when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. Not to be fanatical about a MS product...
I just don't know why the iMac needs it, as opposed to maybe just the G4s.
- The iThighMouser - control the position of the cursor on the screen by squeezing your knees together.
- The iHeadMouse - attached to a little beenie, this pointing device uses mercury switches to track movements as you look around the screen (as long as you keep your eyes fixed forwards and move your head to point). Not to be confused with the very popular iNosePen.
- The iGrapefruitRoller - sensors track a grapefruit's position on your desk as you roll it around. Cover the grapefruit with both hands to 'click'
- The iEtch-A-Sketch (tm) - use the two wheels to move horizontally, vertically, and (psuedo) diagonally. Shake upside down to click.
- The iChopsticks - hold the chopsticks in your hand (instructions included) and click
- The iLightSaber - no description necessary
I should actually put up a web site with these parodies (on HavenCo of course, since I don't want the Apple iCops and iLawyers pounding on my door)._______
2B1ASK1
I _like_ the hockey puck, but then I have very small hands. I hope they make the new mouse in a left-handed version though. Right-handed ergonomic mice such as the one shown suck big-time for those who mouse left-handed.
Suppose we took once of those iMac hockey-puck mice and decided to make it wireless. Okay, now let's remove the button in favour of the tilt-a-whirl scheme. Now what do you have?
A round object that does not obviously orient in any particular direction! Pretty useful for a mouse, eh?
Okay, so what's the answer? Make it look like a plaster mould of Bigfoot's footprint. While we're at it, make it impossible to use your left hand with it.
Donny
I use pens with Windows.
:p
I have a wacom penpartner, one flatmate has a 12"x12" wacom, another has an a4 wacom. Works pretty good with them.
And I remember the days of a 512k Mac+ and it's wonderful mouse. My bbc has one a few years before though
2. Two button mice were "developed" (note the quotes) to give users contextual menues. Contextual menues were developed to make up for the fact that a particular OS that shall remained unnamed (ok, windows) had such a terrible set of rules for system menues that it was almost impossible to get stuff done. Menues attached to application windows, menues attached document windows, menues attached to folder windows.... where the $@#%! is "copy" or "paste"? Hence, the second button.
No... the prize for contextual menus goes to OS/2. MS later stole the idea.
3. Contextual menues were also the saviour to the crisis of badly designed hot keys. I want to close a window... is it ctrl-w, alt-w or alt-F4 (nobel prize for counter-intuitive design to whoever came up with that one). Quitting an application? Could be q, could be x. On the mac, quit is always cmd-Q, close is always cmd-W, undo is always Z. Always. With these commands standardized across all apps, contextual menues are unneccessary...
Really? Alt-F4 is the way to close an app... period. It is built into Windows. Any other key combo used to close an app is something put in by the app's programmer. Also Cut, copy paste are always Ctrl-X,C & V. There are also lot's of other standard Windows key commands that work the same in all apps, any deviation from the standard was the doing of the apps' programmers. I actually prefer the keyboard shortcuts, I can get things done faster. And if there's no mouse I can still use the OS. Try that on a Mac.
4. In order to get some mindshare off the Winders flock, Apple caved in and offered contextual menues. Just hold down the control key. No second mouse button required.
Now that's intuitive, use two hands when one could suffice.
Then you'll love the Microsoft Optical Intellimouse. I do. And I use Linux.
No special pads. In fact, no pad needed at all.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Johnny Ive realized this when he designed a mouse that one CAN'T rest one's hand on. It's so small and light that the CORRECT way to use it, motherfucker, is to lightly and gently guide it with only the tips of three fingers. A subtle yet significant benefit of such think-different mouseholding is that it's more like holding a pencil. I can draw in Photoshop or Illustrator more naturally -- guiding the cursor not with my palm-heel but with my index finger. Manipulating the mouse with one's palm-heel now seems incredibly primitive -- like trying to eat soup with one's ass.
Thats funny... I hold both the puck mouse and the normal mouse with 4 fingers, And I still rest my palm in the pad with both mice. The only thing is, that I find the puck mouse hard to use in photoshop -- I twist my mouse when I draw curves. And I lose my orientaion with the round shape.
That's a bug of the windows- and xwindows-mouse handling. On MacOS you can move the mouse a bit while double clicking.
(That's the problem when you copy a GUI without looking at it carefully)
Personally I think Windows is nothing like the MacOS. I really have to shift my thinking when going between the two but I digress...
Windows too allows you to move the mouse a tiny bit when you double-click. The tolerance is only a couple of pixels. But if that's not good enough for you, at least Windows gives you the option of turning double-clicking off.
There was a news story (CNN?) I saw a few years back about a guy who made a mouse which runs on brain-waves. He made a little brain-wave detector which you strap onto the tip of your index finger. All you have to do is sit there and imagine the most moving, and it moves! There was even footage of a skiing game being played with it. The story said that it'd be out in about half a year. Well so much for that! Anyone know anything about it?
-There is no
So... you don't want to go to all the trouble of occasionally holding down the button for one measly second, and you might accidently slip off the button while you try to pick one of the menu items? This whole thread is getting a bit too pendantic for my liking
And to answer an earlier point, the hockey puck has coloured sides and a dent in the button to help you orientate it properly. If you cant figure it out from that, I'm afraid there is little hope for you (-;
And those who find The Puck need to start holding it different. It's surprisingly comfortable after a short adjustment period. And it's good for right and left handed people!!
-Dead Lesbian Witches! Think about it!
I keep thinking how 'carbon dated' all those gray slabs look now...
> I think Apple's advertising is actually quite relavent. I don't think it's necessarly GOOD design, just DIFFERENT. (and with the puck-mouse and itty-bitty keyboard on the iMac, it's actually BAD design)
Regarding the "itty-bitty keyboard": A linux-nerd friend of mine remarked "it's almost like a Happy Hacker"...
So... you don't want to go to all the trouble of occasionally holding down the button for one measly second, and you might accidently slip off the button while you try to pick one of the menu items? This whole thread is getting a bit too pendantic for my liking
People always tend to scoff when things like this are said. Other examples are things like: I need alt-tab so i don't have to move my hand to the mouse everytime I switch windows (some X configs). I want to have a backspace (backwards) and a delete (forwards) so I don't need to hit right, backspace for a forwards delete. I want to have "ls" aliased to 'l' so I don't have to type the 's'. I need a number pad so I can type numbers faster. I need a scroll wheel so I don't have to move the mouse over to the scroll bar. I need an alt-F4 equivalent so I don't have to move the mouse to a little button to close windows. The list goes on and on... The thing is, most of these things save less than a second each time they are used, but if you remove any of them, I, and many other people, get annoyed very quickly. Why? Because for one thing, we do these actions many times a day, so it adds up, and even if we didn't, I'd like you to give me one good reason why I should wait that second if there is a simple way to avoid it.
See the other poster for comments on the color pattern.
As for the symetry making it good for right and left handed people, there are plently of non-circular mice out there that are still symetric about the y-z plane. Try out the logictech wireless mouse: two buttons, scroll wheel, no hand preference.
The example you give is not the same thing. The car key example is using distance in a rotational space to differentiate, while double clicking is using difference in time. I am used to double clicking, but it still occasionally screws me up.
My vote is that the double click has over time become accepted because users are familiar with it, and because systems people have tweaked the implementation to the point that it's not horrible. But the concept is still a bad idea.
Regards, your friendly neighbourhood cranq
Regards, your friendly neighbourhood cranq
Double-clicking has to be the dumbest thing ever invented. Every time I try to teach someone who is new to computers (as in, has never used one before), the one thing that they find impossible to do is double-click.
Once people have acquired the ability to double-click, the next big problem is that they have no idea when to double-click and when to single-click! I can't tell you the number of times they've opened two windows, or started two copies of some application, because they double-clicked when they only had to click once. This is a problem that would not happen if two mouse buttons were used instead.I didn't realize that double-click was invented for Macs. I guess if you only have one button, its a way to keep the user from having to use the keyboard, but it's not as easy as simply having a second button on the mouse.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
this thread is kinda dead and all but...
Please people, you have all but killed DVORAK, the twiddler is a geek toy for gargoyles, please don't shun chording into the closet too.
Chord is simultaneous pressing of keys, ala pipe organ chords, to get a single input. Pressing a keyboard key(s) at the same time you 'click' the mouse is one of the best all brain methods that can be used.
[Left Brain] I want to do action here (spatial)!
[Right Brain] I want to do event here (contextual)!
You can't get much more distrubuted than that. You may be able to argue over which side the chord keyboard should be on.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
I think they have not removed the button, but rather removed the rest of the mouse, so to speak. So it's one big button, and when you press it, it should click just like a regular mouse button.
But we shall see.
Up until recently, Apple tower cabinets were nearly impossible to open without applying undue force.
Why can't this company produce peripherals that are intelligently designed and ergonomically suitable while still being pretty? Don't people at Apple get RSI?
...all *standard* with their new macs (hopefully).
What does standard mean in the Mac world? That you have to live with it, period? I hope not. People already have a hard enough time figuring out how to use the mouse we all know and love. Heck, I bought an OEM PC once (I know, I know, and I never did it again - it's got Linux on it now) that had a friggin' mouse tutorial.
Now, to select an item from the drop-down menu, lovingly squeeeeeze your mouse, like this...
What I'm saying is this: I think it's been hard enough for some users to get used to the mouse in the first place. (You laugh? Try watching my mother-in-law use a mouse. After three years, she's not exactly deft yet.) It'll be even harder for them to get used to this wild new thing. If Macintosh does what it has in the past, it'll push it on everyone without giving them any idea that there's an alternative. Heck, they may throw out the old mouse altogether, when it wouldn't be any more difficult to keep it. INNOVATE!
Be nice to your friends. If it weren't for them, you'd be a complete stranger.
I don't like it because I would always grab it at the wrong angle without realizing it and then be all confused about why the pointer was moving so strangly. I don't care about the size, i just need a bit of asymetry so I can tell where the front is without looking down for the cord.
I also disagres that MacOS only needs one button. When I use netscape on Macs, I have to use the option key to substitute for the right mouse button when I want to "open link in new window" and such.
The HDNS-2000 is a low-cost reflective optical sensor that provides a non-mechanical tracking engine for implementing a computer mouse. It is based on optical navigation technology which measures changes in position by optically acquiring sequential surface images (frames) and mathematically determining the direction and magnitude of movement. The sensor is mounted in a plastic optical package and designed to be used with the HDNS-2100 (Lens), HDNS-2200 (LED Assembly Clip), and HLMP-ED80(High Light Output 639 nm LED), providing a complete and compact tracking engine. This optical tracking engine has no moving parts and requires no precision optical alignment enabling high volume system assembly. The HDNS-2000 offers a PS/2 or quadrature output mode for interface flexibility. Resolution is specified as 400 cpi at rates of motion up to 12 inches per second.
The link to fact sheets, etc. is here.
...it'll be one billion times better then the horrible hockey puck.
Alright, isn't that a slight exaggeration? I mean, it's not THAT bad; you get used to the shape pretty fast. Though I will admit another button would be handy, yesterday I actually instinctively tries to right click on a link in netscape...
Something about those renderings scream "FAKE"
Every piece of Apple's industrial design has been an instant classic...almost museum worthy. With the work of the Apple Industrial Design Group, there is a consistant and elegant balance of form and function, with the exception of the hocky puck, of which function was an after thought.
This thing just looks like some idiot "Hotlined" Infini-D and went nuts.
I guess what I am trying to say is that this thing is just flat out ugly.
Note the red light shining through on two of the three shots. The AI article states that these may be blocked from shining through in the final unit. There appear to be two button/non-button type objects on the sides as well. This could possibly be used for the "squeasing" action. Also, the cord of this mouse matches the new braided cords Apple has been using for their keyboards. (The iHockeyPuck mouse does not currently use a braided cable.)
Apple may still surprise us all...
Does anyone else think the mouse looks like a new sandal with the straps cutoff?...Seriously, it looks like I'm sticking my hand on a pair of Tevas or Nike Air Deshutz's or something...
That's not the real Bruce Perens. Note the "." after the user name.
Bruce Perens.
The one-button Mac mouse is hand-neutral to begin with. No control panel kludge necessary. The "left-handed mouse" option doesn't do anything to solve the problems associated with key shortcuts being harder for lefties--Alt-F4 is even harder for the right hand than Cmd-Q to hit.
As for accessibility, Mac OS had utilities like CloseView in System 6 (1988) and speech-driven commands in 1994; they were thinking about non-standard users long before Microsoft ever did (as usual).
As for Linux, it should be possible to remap mouse buttons at the X layer, although (being a righty) I've never experimented with it.
that thing resembles nothing like the industrial design that Apple is still in the process of moving their products line to (the powerbook still isn't quite translucent yet).
I have no doubt that Apple has a new mouse in the works; it behooves them to do so. However, one of their biggest market is schools. Can you imagine a wireless mouse in a high school lab? I can't; they'd all go missing. I've worked for a school district.
Plus... If I know myself, a wireless mouse would be disatrous for me. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the remote control.
woof!
Actually, I HATE the fact that the Mac has only one menu bar. I find it horribly unintuitive. I prefer to have each applciation be isolated to itself, and I strongly dislike the way the Mac menu 'invisibily' changes when different applications take hold.
And don't give me that 'infinite depth' of the screen edges... I've never had a problem hitting a menu for an application. And I usually have about a dozen app windows open at once (dev environments, console windows, email, etc).
Frankly, I think context menus out-strip the utility and intuitiveness of one global menu bar that constantly changes with no visible feedback (hey, that selection wasn't on that menu just a second ago!). Each object in the environment has its own context menu that is relavent to *it* at that specific instant. And mouse movement is MINIMAL, rather than tracking all the way to the edge of teh screen and back every time. (menu bars on each app help limit mouse movement too, but context menus are better).
See? Two sides to every issue. The Mac does NOT do it the 'one true way', by far. I remember starting up a game on the Mac that I knew how to play on Windows just fine. It started up, and then I stared at it dumbfounded. I could NOT figure out how to get the game to *start*. How was I to know that mysteriously, a "New Game" selection had been added to the "File" menu (yeah, that makes a bunch of intuitive sense). I saw the unchanged menu across the top and assumed nothing had changed. Windows certainly wins that battle on intuitiveness (at least for THAT game). Never mind the game (Warcraft II?) made excellent use of the mouse button that put any Mac user at a major disadvantage in a multi-user game...
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
Blah.... RISC OS uses 3 buttons and its easy as pie:
left = SELECT
middle = MENU
right = ADJUST
five points for the in-joke.
It isn't the instruction that is the problem, it is the speed.
The mouse control panel lets you adjust click speed and tracking speed. I go for fast click, slow track.... although there is now a mac USB "gaming mouse" that has a wheel that is used to adjust the tracking speed on the fly!
Kickass! I gotta get me one of those (I'm a fan of bigger stuff)
You must live in a wide open space. I got the biggest desk in the province (solid steel engineers desk from the 30s) but I have so much crap on it that I need a small keyboard... if you want 3 Os's and don't want LILO... you need the big desk/small computer combo.
I think I bought it because I saw it alone at the Future Shop (like a stripped down, Canadian version of Best Buy)
The mere mention of Future Shop sends me into convulsive fits... That is the "heaps of abuse" outlet I referred to previously.
I think (for fun) I'll write a mouse driver for it... I've love to literally navigate my computer.
Although I can't imagine its implementation, it does sound like a cool hack...
There are some bad points about some Macs (the iMac in particular)
Honestly, I have to say that the only thing that bugs me about the mac is the price and the lower stability. Really. The mouse has its detractors (I among them at one point), but it grows on you. Mind you, I use a G4 tower not an iMac (and have never used an iMac) and have been mind-numbingly happy with it. Of course, were it my only computer I would probably feel differently. I have the option of heading for the Solaris box whenever I need to do "solarisy" things. If that option wasn't there, I probably wouldn't be so satisfied with the G4....
Please be the president of your country
uh, we share a country... and I don't really care who you vote for as long as it is not Stockwell Day....
But, as I'm sure you feel whenever the Mac gets the latest game/application last
Well, uh, I should say that the fact that a lot of bugs get worked out in the port lag time makes it worthwhile... but that's really the consolation prize. Oh, we do get Photoshop stuff first.
2 1337 4 u!
This all sounds well thought out, except that timing is all wrong.
Microsoft was selling mice by the early to mid '80s, before the release of windows. (Multiplan and Word were both MS-DOS applications with mouse support) but the first couple of releases of windows had no contextual menus. (I'm talking about Windows 2.1, 3.0, and 3.1) It wasn't until Windows 95 that Microsoft used contextual menus (maybe there were some applications that were released soon before 95 with contextual menus. But those were done with full knowledge of the direction of Windows 95)
So are you trying to say that Microsoft started selling two button mice because 10 years later that were going to start introducing contextual menus?
And I'm not sure I buy your argument that contextual menu were developed to make up for badly designed hotkeys. I alsways thought that the Windows 95 developers lifted from the OS/2. Whoever put them into OS/2 probably was very familiar with the Smalltalk environment, since it seems to be a reimplmentation of the "yellow button."
Melamine is the name for your white-surfaced particle board. Common uses include carcases of kitchen cabinets and low-budget "modern" furniture.
I usually buy it in 3/4" thik sheets, about 97 x 49 (its slightly oversize from standard 4' x 8' sheets).
The trick is to get the keyboard upside down as soon as possible, so that the liquid drips off of the circuitboard and into the 'cup' created by each upside down key. If it's pop, it will dry in there.
As another poster said, many people have popped them into dishwashers after taking out the electronics. I haven't done that though...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
---
Why doesnt apple just fucking use standard mice? (we need to be proprietary) FINE! BE PROPRIETARY, but give me a standard PROPRIETARY fucking mouse
---
Who is talking proprietary? Apple's current mice are all USB based.
And ADB was never really proprietary - you could make 3rd party ADB mice without any special licensing or anything. Just because something is a bit less common doesn't make it proprietary.
---
I'm really pissed off about the mouse though, because my employer just offered me a new company PowerMac.
---
Easy. Get a 3rd party mouse. Yeah, the stock one sucks, but there are tons of choices. Kensington makes some pretty good one, and if you can get around the dirty feeling you get supposedly the Microsoft mice are pretty decent.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
Rotate car key one notch for electric, 2 notches for ignition. The analogy I make often is to knocking on a door. Knock twice and the app/door is "opened".
2 1337 4 u!
But in the Apple User Interface Guidelines, double clicks are never anything that can't be done without the menubar. Double-clicking can be counter-intuitive, thats why when ever I explain things, I never give the "double click" shortcut. Its always "click on the icon, now go to the file menu and choose open". When someone is familiar enough with the system to know that double clicking is the same as choosing the default action, they'll start doing it on their own.
Don't go pointing to studies done on Windows to show inadequacies of user interace design in general. We all know that Windows shouldn't be held up as the user interface poster boy.
"The problem with using windows as the yardstick for ease of use is that a windows yard is about a good three inches."--Me
Why are most mice sold these days backwards? Everyone knows that the correct hand to use a mouse (or to do most things) is the left hand. I guess in the political correct times the companies are catering to those funky backwards right handed people.
Maybe it is me, but I never trusted those strange right handed people. How can you trust someone who does everything backwards? Writing with your right hand -- it is just strange man!
It should be pointed out that Micro$oft's "technology" wasn't actually invented by Micro$oft but, like everything else, purchased and marketed because they wanted to sell it themselves.
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
I realize that the images are only purported prototypes, but that design is utterly wrong. Iotaborg had an excellent point when he pointed out that the mouse isn't ambidextrous, but there's more. Take a closer look: the beast is designed so that your fingers fit into little indentations on the front-- a potentially big problem if you've got large hands, or long fingernails.
Personally, I'm sick of ergo devices-- I'm left handed, I type with my keyboard in my lap, and objects that are specifically designed to feel like I'm putting the wrong glove on are extremely annoying. Yes, I realize that only about 10% of us are southpaws (wherever the hell that appelation came from), but is it really that much harder to construct an ergonomically-pleasing ambidextrous device?
Personally, my vision for the next step in the evolution of the mouse looks like a potato. It's big, it's oblong, and you can hold it firmly with either hand. It's anyone's guess if you'll be able to use it with any efficency, though.
Five tons of flax.
i'm sitting here at a rather nice G4.
It came with the nasty mouse and keyboard.
Anyway, i could take the mouse, although my hands are big enough that i was holding it literally with no more than the one joint nearest the end of my three middle fingers.. which got a bit annoying. But it was the keyboard that threw me. The letters were tiny and scrunched, and there was just.. something about it that my WPM went down by at least like a third, my mistakes kind of tripled and my wrists hurt every time i used it. And i don't know about you people, but i am _literally_ UNABLE TO FUNCTION without a forward-del key. Maybe i'm just wierd, but i feel like i have a whole finger missing or something without that one little key. And i'm wondering, _why_ would apple do this on a _professional_ model? With the imac it was clearly to preserve desk space, but this isn't an imac. i have a big 'ol tower sitting here, a 17-inch monitor, and no need aesthetic or otherwise to insure my keyboard is the same width as my computer.
So i was thinking about this, and i came to a very paranoid, very unrealistic, and probably correct conclusion: apple did it on purpose.
Why?
Well, think about it from their perspective. They're about to fully embrace a semiobscure and not-too-widely supported standard [USB] for peripherals. There is almost no market, and the form factor of the product they're selling means that the people buying it will be happier if their peripherals can be *gag* color-coordinated. How the hell are they going to get people to agree to make peripherals specifically for this thing if there's zero user base so far, apple's halfway to dead and they haven't even announced the thing?
Well, i'll tell you one thing, it's certainly not going to help sales of USB keyboards if the biggest group of USB consumers in the world [imac users] already _have_ a good keyboard.
So here's my theory: Apple purposefully designed the keyboard and mouse for the imac to be [let's be nice here] inadequate, in order to stimulate growth in the USB market, to ensure that everyone who buys an imac will at some point want to go get themselves a nice new Kensington iOrbitBox or whatever, thus giving Kensington a reason to release whatever the hell it was they released. Bam! Instant market. Happy peripheral companies. USB expertise spreads throughout the industry, making new products faster to get to market; USB flowers; Apple gets away with not putting any more standard ports on the imac.
Bullshit? Of course it is. But it's something to think about.
Anyway, i'm currently typing on a very nice MacAlly iKey and using a rather ghetto-bootleg [but cheap, and most of all TWO-BUTTON] thing i found at MicroCenter called an "iMouse"-- featuring no drivers in the box [meaning until i downloaded a shareware usb driver, both of the mouse buttons did the same thing..], some very odd features on the back of the clearly badly translated box ["inconvenient powering down", "support for up to 256 devices"] and no brandname or any other hint who manufactured the thing anywhere on or inside the box. Did i mention it was cheap?
So i'm happy and the [both psychological and literal] pain of the imac mouse/keyboard are far behind me. So i don't really care anymore.
But my conspiracy theory still applies: apple now has a big 'ol user base, they know the USB market will survive on whether they're competing with it or not, and non-apple corporations have started paying lots of attention to USB. So now that they no longer need to force not-cruddy imac peripherals into existence, they're reentering the market. Although if they release a mouse but not a real extended keyboard.. well, they're on crack.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Sorry, but I cannot fathom what's so hard about two buttons. It's pretty simple... the left does all the usual clicking things, the right brings up context menus to select things from. How difficult is that? It takes, what, a few minutes to learn? Maybe a few more to get proficient at? Its use and usability FAR outweighs any alleged 'difficulty' in learning it.
:-)
And frankly, these people who cannot fathom a second mouse button don't HAVE to use it at all if they don't want to (but one wonders how they feed or dress themselves if they can't handle it). But let people who want to be productive with their computer have their second mouse button. And a wheel!
(my mouse has five buttons... the one that acts as the browser 'back' button is amazingly useful, and I can't remember how I lived without it... sort of the way I felt when I first got a mouse wheel
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
I've used 2 and 3 button mice for most of my computing, but I think Apple got this right in the beginning - one button mice make much more sense.
My reasoning? First of all, keep it simple - I have no idea how a Mac OS works, but I would set it up so that you click the mouse button down and hold it to get a list of menu options, while clicking once will do the default option (I hate double clicking and agree with the KDE guidelines - it is too prone to error and RSI to be useful).
Another reason is having a GUI that can be consistent with a Pen based GUI - I want to be able to use more or less the same OS/GUI on a webpad as a laptop or desktop. Eventually I hope to be able to just talk and use a pen and skip the keyboard altogether on any computer I would use. Thus holding keys down while pressing various keys is not useful in my mind.
Of course Linux/*BSD will always have 3 button mice available, but I'm hoping a good desktop option will offer a coherent one button option in the future.
You were wrong.
Apart from that last bit, of course.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Dude, as long as he got the "you're" right, it's fine. If he had said "your a journalist now" my first reaction would be: "My 'a journalist now'?" and my second reation would be "jeez, what a moron." He passes.
Uh, Macs use USB. I think any decent PC has USB ports nowadays. Should be Plug-n-play.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Here's a mirror for just the pictures.
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
I guess it geopardize Amazon's One-Click patent!
:-)
I wonder if Apple patented the One-Squeeze shopping cart
On a lighter note, anyone know of a good modern "battleship" style keyboard for those of us that like a huge sturdy clicking keyboard IBM steelo?
IBM is the keyboard king, no doubt about it. You can't get steel ones anymore, but the plastic ones are pretty damn solid (I could still kill you with a sharp blow -- that's the acid test. :) ). And they still have that great IBM feel. To tell you the truth, I stole^H^H^H^H^H borrowed a pile of them from my last company about 4 years ago, so I haven't ordered one lately. But I'm typing on one right now and they still rock.
You can order them directly off IBM's web site. It's amazing that no one else makes a decent keyboard.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
hello, it stops in the middle. Where's the rest?
Not necessarily. It would be wireless, and Apple has no impetus to sell the receiver to outside OEMs. Although the rumor is that the cordless version is so lousy that they're dumping that and shipping the new test models with cords...
- - - - -
- - - - -
automatictaxistopelectriccigarettelovebaby
Like what? I use a mac, a sparc10(solaris) and a winders machine (for solitaire... no, really) and I've come to the conclusion that extra buttons are only there to make up for bad UI design. Let's "do the numbers":
1. The original mice concept as envisioned by Xerox had 3 buttons all doing a vairety of tasks. Apple did a bag o' research that showed that mis-hits were common amongst users learning new tasks. The solution? The double click. Imagine life without the double-click...
2. Two button mice were "developed" (note the quotes) to give users contextual menues. Contextual menues were developed to make up for the fact that a particular OS that shall remained unnamed (ok, windows) had such a terrible set of rules for system menues that it was almost impossible to get stuff done. Menues attached to application windows, menues attached document windows, menues attached to folder windows.... where the $@#%! is "copy" or "paste"? Hence, the second button.
3. Contextual menues were also the saviour to the crisis of badly designed hot keys. I want to close a window... is it ctrl-w, alt-w or alt-F4 (nobel prize for counter-intuitive design to whoever came up with that one). Quitting an application? Could be q, could be x. On the mac, quit is always cmd-Q, close is always cmd-W, undo is always Z. Always. With these commands standardized across all apps, contextual menues are unneccessary...
4. In order to get some mindshare off the Winders flock, Apple caved in and offered contextual menues. Just hold down the control key. No second mouse button required.
The current state of the multi-button-mouse is alarming. First it was two buttons, then three, then a lever, later a wheel. What's next? A second keyboard on wheels? Foot pedals?
End Rant.
"Why should we limit computers to the lies we tell them with that second mouse button?"
Frymaster, 2000, my basement
2 1337 4 u!
Apple actually tested something similar with some of the Powerbooks Trackpad. You move the pointer by moving your finger on the area and you "click" by tapping on the Trackpad.
Apple has a long history of using non-mainstream pointer device.
Also, worse case, people will buy a mouse they like (they probably already have to do that with the round mouse and the tiny keyboard anyway.)
Another thing: they better offer these mice really cheap to existing imac/g4/blue g3 users. Steve Jobs is a genius. He bundles awful, cheap mice and keyboards, with about two million computers, knowing full well that everyone will hate them. Then, knowing that they will not give Apple money again for a while, makes them buy new mice from him.
Anyone agree with any of this or am I a raving lunatic?
why folks complain so much about the mouse. It's not that bad. When I'm forced to use one, I generally rest my palm on the mousepad and move the mouse with my fingers, I don't grab the whole thing in my hand with a white-knuckle grip and move my entire arm around (which I what I belive most folks think it's like). I actually find it a bit more ergonomic than some of cheap ergonomic-wanna-be mice. Besides, just go out and buy any USB mouse, I know dozens of folks (myself included) that have replaced their stock PC mice with the new Microsoft Intellimouse. What's the big deal? And if there aren't custom MacOS drivers for your new third-party mouse, use USB Overdive, it's better anyway.
Now the keyboard... that's a whole new story, I personally can't stand it. It's too small and has that "mush" feeling (much like OEM "QuietKey" keyboards on cheap PC bundles). Never understood why Apple's desktop keyboards are now worse than their PowerBook keyboards!! I'm currently using a Sun Microsystems Type 6 USB keyboard (from a SunRay1 terminal spare) on my G3. A buddy of mine uses the $49 iKey full-size keyboard. A bit more expensive than a $5 junk PS/2 keyboard, but certainly built and feels better.
Bottom line, most folks replace the keyboards and mice on their PCs anyway.
Imagine life without the double-click...
Can you say "Active Desktop"? Ugh...
Don
This is a less efficient motion than a downward click, which has your desk to provide an opposite force. Furthermore, it's a less accurate click, because it will tend to shift the mouse position more than a downward click.
Ok, one-button-man, give me a "proper" (ie: one button) mouse metaphor for "one touch" zooming with a mouse...
h an-45degrees optical design
:) all computer desks should have come with an optical mousepad design. Optical mice rule.
:-)
At least *I* can zoom in/out without touching the keyboard, or dragging the mouse to hell and back.
And, if you ask me, hot keys are nothing more than a lameass way to try to speed an app up. If an application is well designed, you won't need hot keys (since this means you take your fingers from the mouse), you'll have the button to push under your pointer in a click or two.
Oh, and yes, I do have foot pedals under me (attached to a computer steering wheel). It would be DAMNED cool if I could use them to "drive" the net...
We all have our ways, but the windows way seems to be the most popular. Whether that is good or not doesn't matter.
>Imagine life without the double-click
I'd love it... I always seem to spend the first hour with new computer users explaining to them they they must quickly, without high force lest something bust, tap the button on the mouse to do things. It would be much easier if I could say "Push the BLUE button, DAMMIT" (ok, I wouldn't swear.)
And copy is Ctrl-Insert, Cut is Shift-Del, and paste is Shift-Insert. I've never seen a decent app mess with those combos before (except to add more)...
>Just hold down the control key. No second mouse button required.
Making the apple a living nightmare for disabled users... And wasting my precious one handed typing skills.
>What's next? A second keyboard on wheels?
Personally I'd go for an extra row of labeled function keys... Where's my F13-F24?
>must-use-our-mousepad-and-not-rotate-it-more-t
Hey, just because someone came up with the better idea light years before apple did doesn't mean it sucks. If you ask me (and I know you didn't
Of course, I still use VTWM (TWM on steriods) because it rules. Easy to work, easy to setup, ULTRA low on resources, and, best of all, doesn't crash (much). So I probably am the majority.
And the best X11 app design (to me) is a tie between Motif and the standard Xlib.
Yeah, I'm serious. And no, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just telling you what some of the other side thinks.
Yes... and they suck
1. You lose the pad, you can't use your computer.
2. You want a bigger pad? sorry.
3. You want a pad with a picture of yer kids/dog/ouija board on it. See #2. 4. You accidentally rotate the pad more than 45 degrees and gues what the mouse stops working. Really. No shit. Now, I use this a "security feature". I lock my screen and rotate my pad 90 degrees before going home from work every day.
That's why you can use it on any surface
Oh yeah? How about on the glass dining room table while your gf plays with a laser pointer underneath it. huh? huh? gotcha there didn't I? :)
2 1337 4 u!
according to the article, it does have tactile
feedback. Apparently, the entire unit (or at least, the entire head of the unit --yes, the area that lookes like toes-- moves down with resistance)
-still, I agree, a dumb, dumb, dumb (and did I say?) dumb idea
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
The functions of the two extra 'thumb buttons' are actually configurable, and just default to 'back/forward'. I'd assume they work under Netscape as well, but I haven't tried it.
I dunno how they'd work under Linix, as I haven't tried that either. It'd be up to the driver.
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
No, it just proves that the human being can get used to anything. The iPuck mouse *sucks* in just about every conceivable way. If you've never had trouble figuring out what way it faces, you either LOOK at the mouse a lot (oh the pain), or you tangle your fingers in the cord (oh the pain, the pain).
That mouse is carpel tunnel syndrom or RSI waiting to happen. I'm wagering in a year or so, Apple will be the target of a class action suit for all sorts of wrist and hand injuries and problems with chronic pain. Gawd knows I've only used the thing a very few times, and I already want to sue them.
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
Apple did a bag o' research that showed that mis-hits were common amongst users learning new tasks. The solution? The double click. So, does this mean I can eliminate half the keys on my keyboard to avoid typos? Just image, to type an "N", click the "M" twice. To type an uppercase, hold shift and double click the "M". Double click was/is for those who don't have the brain power to remember that one button does one thing and another does another - or that don't have the coordination to click with one finger instead of another. Also, the fact that Apple looked at "users learning new tasks" pretty much describes their market share.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Left shift 1 for e-mail...
Apple will leave all traditional stuff behind. iMac and B&W G3 have lost Floppy and SCSI. And when G4 were released, ADB has gone. Not so bad, except SCSI. I think that leaving SCSI behind is Apples (maybe) the worst mistake ever. Macs are mostly used in places with long history with SCSI. And those places have rumours of (expensive) SCSI-peripherals too. So guestion: Do anybody think in seriuos, that You'll buy, for exaple, a $30.000 scanner, only because Your new mac haven't a SCSI bus?
...
Think Too Different.
I just bought one for myself. They're great in many ways (all except for two ridiculous side buttons, and the dodgy cord) But there are quite a few surfaces that they simply dont work at all on. For example, it doesn't work on _my_ current desktop, which is a piece of glass over white whicker. Instead, I have to use a nice flat textured mouse pad. Nonetheless, it is still a significant improvement because the tracking is more accurate and more reliable. This is a particularly important feature for those, like me, who prefer high sensitivity, where that skittish jumping isn't just a few hairs, but half the screen.
Sorry, but I love contextual menus. I love never having to go up to the menu bar except very rarely. I love directly manipulating the objects on the screen (can you say 'more object oriented'?)...
... wait ... click" (Windows Explorer). It's just more intuitive, and faster... I don't have to judge a 'pause', I just mindlessly do what I want, without worrying about 'accidentally' getting into (or failing to get into) differnt "modes".
Context menus make very intuitive sense to me. I do wish they were implemented more uniformely and pervasively though.
Of course, I'm also a big proponent of everything having a keyboard short-cut (hotkey). If my hand is on the mouse, I'd like to keep it there as long as I can... and if my hands are both on the keyboard, I'd like to keep them there for as long as I can. I want to minimize the shift between mouse and keyboard as much as possible.
And let me end with one example: I'd vastly prefer to rename a file by doing a right-click "Rename", than a "click and hover for a second" (mac) or a "click
Context menus RULE
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
well, if extra buttons are there to make up for bad ui design, the Mac sure could use a few extra buttons.
Specific examples:
bad/inconsistent keyboard dialog navigation (use of tab or arrows to allow button clickage without having to take your hands off the keyboard). I love my Mac, it's the best there is, but I do HATE the fact that there's no way to use it without a mouse. At least on a Winders machine, if you don't feel like moving your hand off the keyboard to close out an annoying dialog, you can do it. With the Mac, if the button you want isn't the highlighted one, you can't dismiss it without using the mouse.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Uh? Drivers? Cord not plugged in? Cord plugged into the wrong port? Cord forced into the wrong port? Broken pins on cord? Bad connection? Corrosion? User keeps on pulling mouse loose? Broken cord? I've seen all of these, they're not as rare as you might believe. A wireless mouse may add some unavoidable complication, but it's mostly nominal. I see no reason why a properly designed mouse with decent software (i.e., show battery and signal levels, I know my wireless logitech mouse does) should be drastically harder to resolve the vast majority of issues on. Yes, you may occasionally get interference, but (on a well designed mouse) there aren't what 99.99% of the calls are going to be about, and you know it.
um - I can call up my CM in Mac OS by click-and-hold. I wait for the timeout, and boom, there's my CM. Now, in Winders, when I want a CM, sometimes there's a delay that's just plain inexcusable. I have a PII 333, I want to create a folder, say. I have to hold down the right mouse button for the CM - most of the time, that's a fairly rapid thing, 2-5 seconds, then I go to the "new" selection, and often it takes 20-30 seconds for the submenu to pop up. That is complete bullshit.
If I want a new folder on the Mac, I simply do a command-N, and boom, new folder appears. Instantly.
Winders is garbage.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Nah-uh. I would never use a single buttoned mouse. Hate them forever. Why? /bind mouse2 +moveup 'nuff said.
-The Tempest
But there's a deficit in the design.
What if you get a dialog box with a couple of text fields, maybe a pulldown, and a OK, Default, Cancel trio of buttons at the bottom.
In Windows, you can navigate that whole dialog using arrow keys and tab or shift-tab. In Mac, it's annoyingly inconsistent whether you can navigate those fields and buttons with keys, so you have to switch over to the mouse, then back to the keyboard afterwards. This, in my opinion, is garbage. When are they going to fix this? For the OS that's supposedly focused on useability, that certainly is a big pain in the ass.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
You can order them directly off IBM's web site. It's amazing that no one else makes a decent keyboard.
All I could find was a 104-key keyboard with "quiet keys". I must have clicky-keys! I've still got one of the ol' PS/2 keyboards (it says copyright 1984 underneath), and I'd never replace it with any of that new quiet-key trash... :)
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
I like those as well, but don't y'all think it's about time that we give such universal functions such as these their own keys?
In fact, we could probably get rid of the never-used SysRq, ScrLk, and NumLock keys for this.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Second off, the Puck. Many people have complained about the puck, and I frankly don't see why. The puck is designed for use in a certain position, where your palm does _not_ rest on the mouse, merely the fingers. This position is somewhat comfortable, so I really don't know why their mice (mouses?) are uncomfortable, for they are. The only fault I see is that there is only one button, but then again, the Mac OS only needs one. Okay, I've decided that you're obviously an insane person.
Don't see why people complain?!? It's PAINFUL. It's guarenteed carpel-tunnel syndrome. If anyone's hands are bigger than a 10 year old's, it's just too small. And you can't tell which way it's "facing"... I can't count the number of times I've moved it across only to have the mouse cursor move diagonally.
It's one of the stupidest, worst mouse designs I've ever witnessed. Completely UNergonomic. Barely usable. To make it 'round' means there's no simple way to tell what it's orientation is just by feel. Nothing to steady the wrist or palm... it's just an utter abomination. Apple at its worst ("form over function").
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
The United States is not a Democracy, it is a constitutional republic. Democracy is mostly similar to "mob rule." Take, for example, a democracy where 51% of the people decide that all the black people are inferior and should be enslaved. This is why the United States is not a democracy. Though we are, day by day, slipping closer toward it... notice how the Democrats are constantly viewing the polls and stating what the "American people" want. Who gives a shit what the American people want! If it violates the *law* it is illegal. Polls do not decide what laws should be followed and which should not.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I have just one word to say: "Quake"
[from: I love the round mouse... by the MacCommunist ]
The fervor with which the round-mouse-hating crowd despises Jonathan Ive's gorgeous input device approaches the hate-fueled fervor of Southern fundamentalists toward evolution or Nazis towards books. It's the same closed-minded, retarded group mentality that kept DOS users hating the graphic user interface. Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up already!
The round mouse is far superior to the old, constipated, turd-shaped mouse. But you suckers just don't get it.
For example, at Macworld SF2000 last week, "popular" Mac columnist Geek Levitus said, "I replace mine with good mice and play roller hockey with the old ones. They absolutely have got to go.'' What an asshole. I.D. magazine proclaimed the round mouse one of the big design blunders of the millennium or some shit (in their recent millennium issue with an unusually excellent profile of UCLA's virtual reality program).
What is a "good" mouse, anyway? A big, cushy, shit-shaped piece of plastic? "Ergonomic" mouses have been introduced, one after another, for the past decade or more -- MouseMan, WheelMan, Orbit, SmartMouse, TurboMouse, TrackBall, QBall, SuckmyBalls -- each one with its own shape, curves, weird button placement. Has any of them improved upon the next? Do they need leather cushions built into them? Or perhaps seven buttons? Is Microsoft's insipid "Intellimouse Explorer", with its arbitrary industrial design, some sort of universal ergonomic godsend that'll cure its user of any hand or wrist pain while using it?
No, goddamnit. No amount of cushions and buttons and wheels and trackballs and whatnot will fix the problem with mice: that you have to rest your hand on them for long periods of time. In fact, making them bigger or more "comfortable" or more bizarrely shaped only makes matters worse: they're designed to keep your hand on them longer, increasing the likelihood of carpal tunnel syndrome or, even worse, dorkus stayathomeitis.
The mouse "Man" wants you to have wrist pain, sucka! That way he can sell you more "ergonomic" contraptions -- gel pads, palm-heel-rests with ball bearings, electromagnetically-charged wristbands, translucent finger struts. It's a deadly cycle that will kill you, brother. Or, at the very least, empty your wallet faster than you can empty your backside cache.
Johnny Ive realized this when he designed a mouse that one CAN'T rest one's hand on. It's so small and light that the CORRECT way to use it, motherfucker, is to lightly and gently guide it with only the tips of three fingers. A subtle yet significant benefit of such think-different mouseholding is that it's more like holding a pencil. I can draw in Photoshop or Illustrator more naturally -- guiding the cursor not with my palm-heel but with my index finger. Manipulating the mouse with one's palm-heel now seems incredibly primitive -- like trying to eat soup with one's ass.
The scary thing is that Steve Jobs might actually cave in to the pressure of these vocal shitforbrains round-mouse-haters, and replace it with a more retrograde design. I say to you mouse Nazis: for shame.
[more]
Just a quick question can you use the back/forward buttons under Netscape or is this an IE only feature? Also do any Linux apps make use of them (or even able to make use of them)?
--
How about just marketing the fact that you never have to take it apart and clean the stupid mouse ball?
That's a major win in and of itself.
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
See my post below.
Yes, but the side buttin is used (on my mouse) as the 'back button'... accuracy isn't an issue at all. Just squeeze and boom, you go back to the previous page. The other button (much harder to press) is the "forward" button (also much less frequently used).
All in all, I couldn't live without my 'back' button, now that I'm used to it. And it took me about 30 seconds to get 'used to it'.
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
According to Apple CEO Steve Jobs, making the mouse wireless was a great innovation because "Now users can truly use the mouse as a hockey puck. We hinted at this in the previous mouse, but now we are taking that idea to its logical conclusion. Just another way that Apple is thinking different"
//m
I love mine too! But you don't have to kill me to get it away from me, just convince another peripherial manufacturer to make one too. (Preferably a _big_ one. MS mice are reliable, but they're too small.)
Intolerant people should be shot.
Now, while using your leg sounds impressive (I guess?) and all, its not really constructive. You want to impress the improvment of technology involved on people? I use mine on my desktop. My desktop is a perfectly featureless slab of white surfaced particle board (can't remember the specific term, but its a hard, smooth surface attached to 5/8" particle board). No lines or visible patterns of any kind, and it works perfectly. I guess it can get a "pattern" of sorts from the texture (I assume that there is one if you get close enough) for gauging movement.
But none of that matters either... These mice will actually work (sort of) even for tech-support-line-horror-story level users who put the mouse on the screen to move the cursor!
Intolerant people should be shot.
RM101 laughs picturing Zoyd stewing in his seat, seething with rage while little clicks surround him in his nice, quiet environment, making a "hellish clatter".
Time to cut down on the coffee, dude.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
But the operating system won't hang. Mac OS 10 runs on Darwin, a Mach kernel with a BSD interface.
But still... what does this have to do with a mouse whose button is on the underside?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yeah, okay. So J. Average Luddite realizes that the remote maybe needs new batteries. Then goes into the kitchen, rattles around the junk drawer, finds 2/4/7/whatever of the appropriate size (maybe... AA, AAA, what's the difference?) and gets them in the right way. Maybe enough of them even work to get the remote going again. And don't forget to put the old ones in the drawer. (I've witnessed this behaviour even in people who are able to set the time on various electronics without assistance)
Intolerant people should be shot.
I presume you're talking about keyboards for PCs, rather than Macs. If that's the case, I get my keyboards from here. They're nice and heavy, with the clattery keys you either love or hate. (And they're reliable - my wife dumped a cup of water into one of these, so I took it apart, dried it on top of my monitor for a couple of days, and it's been working fine ever since.)
That stupid number pad, it's exactly where the mouse should be. If I want the keyboard square in front of me, with the mouse in a comfortable reaching position, I either have to use the mouse with my left or buy a special keyboard.
Given that a standard keyboard costs next to nothing (and that I had one already), and a special keyboard costs about $100, I went lefty.
I don't really like it. When I do any drawing or play games using the mouse, I switch to my right hand.
<sarcasm>But at least my right hand is free to use that conveniently located number pad.</sarcasm>
I'm left handed, I use my mouse in my left hand. Yes, I can also use it in my right hand, but I prefer left. So does almost every left handed graphic designer I've met. We all know that a large chunk of apple's market (especially people complaining about the puck) are graphics people. People who need a comfortable mouse, that's easy to use and accurate for their design apps. Personally both of my mice are uni-handed. A generic 3 button serial mouse on my linux pc, and a 3 button usb 'contour unimouse' on my G3. I would like a chance to try using a comfortable left-handed mouse, but they are rare, and usually low end low quality mice or the other end of the spectrum. So I just go for the uni-mice. I need to get in touch with Ned Flanders and see if he'll help me out at his left-handed store.
Oh come now, changing batteries in a remote control takes as much effort. Knowing when to is the same: "Hmmm, not working... I haven't changed batteries in a year... There, it works again."
A user calls tech support, claims the mouse isn't working. Possible causes? Batteries, frequency conflict, distance, dead hardware, drivers, etc......much harder for a techie to troubleshoot with an idiot on the phone. If it were corded, what could go wrong? It isn't plugged in?
--Jeff
Now I finally got to see the pictures, Note that:
(a) It is AppleInsider (maybe the least reliable Apple source imho)
(b) It looks like a glove without the back... I can actually imagine that squeezing ones fingers down will be kind of interesting...
Maybe like a poor persons VR glove ?
Winton
the clicking, the clicking. . .
STOP THAT DAMN CLICKING!!! IT'S DRIVING ME INSANE!
(all code and no Quake makes Jack a dull boy)
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
not to mention that batteries tend to run out up against project deadlines. Considering how dependent MacOS is on a mouse, this is not a good idea.
This was also why Wacom, with their cordless, batteryless pens pretty much dominate the tablet market, despite a hefty price difference.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Why is it that corporate America continues to discriminate against people with six fingers? From the pictures I could clearly make out divets for four fingers and a thumb. I doubt Apple will be releasing a six-fingered version. What gall! Now where's Jon Katz when you need him?
Seriously though, I have heard that the gene for six fingers is dominant. Anyone know if that's true?
Josh
You know you have a good old stack of keyboards when they all still have the Wordperfect function key label strip on them!
Mine has one right now.
load "linux",8,1
True to previous rumors, the mouse does not sport a traditional mouse button. Instead, sources said, the user simply applies pressure to to front of the unit, at which time resistance will give way allowing the mouse, as a whole, to tilt closer to the underlying surface, producing what is currently known as a mouse click.
Will Apple finally understand that a second button can be really useful for a whole range of tasks, and send a different signal to the computer whether the right and the left 'non-button' is pressed ?
And, even better... A 'non-wheel' support sure would be could too.
Stéphane
Have you checked out Badtech The daily online cartoon?
Instant Karma's gonna get you, Gonna knock you right on the head (John Lennon, 1970)
First of all, it is decidedly right handed. Apple has never had a mouse that favors a particular hand even back to the days of the Apple ][.
Second, though AppleInsider is noted for a better "hit" record of its rumor predictions than many of the other mac rumor sites (because they don't publish every bit of wishful thinking that a fanboy comes up with as a 'rumor'), their traditional 'hits' come from screenshots of beta release software or 3rd party hardware that the manufacturer is trying to create a buzz about.
These 3D images scream "wishful fanboy with Lightwave". Note the lack of translucency (which if true would be a bigger story than a change in the mouse). Note the low rendering quality; take a look at the quality of some of the images in the Apple Design book for a taste of what sort of images Apple liked to prototype with in years past.
It IS likely that Apple will have a new mouse form factor.
It IS likely that they will do something to GRAB the attention of the users and reviewers.
It IS likely that these two logical certainties are what made MacAddict post some made up renderings to get their hit count to go up and sell more ad space.
Sorry, but I love the Intellimouse Explorer.
Fits my hand great, is smooth, and that back-button is the second-most-used button on the mouse (right after left-click). It's great.
What's not to like?
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
Not quite... its works on sand (because you can hold it half a cm off the surface) and gravel (intermittently). And cheese pizza for the same reason as sand.
Mark Duell
Well wont it be of that rubber that they use on the sides of the ibook? and maybe its push the fingers down, or that kind of squeez
Upeo
And, given the popularity of the optical mice that MS has designed and sold, they must be doing a pretty darn good job. I doubt that anyone at HP is complaining. :-) -Bryan
More proof to show you that apple engineers fall out of trees. (no pun intended)
Standard I/O Error. Incompetent/Operator.
AppleInsider is kind (brave? foolish?) enough to maintain an archive of past articles, so you can judge their credibility yourself.
(For those of you who aren't familiar with what Apple did when but want to play along anyway, try cross-referencing AppleInsider's hardware predictions with www.everymac.com.)
Your's so right. Three cheers for Hewlett-Packard, the inventors of the darn thing! Hip Hip Hooray!
Personally, I enjoy my iPuck mouse. It's comfortable. I have big hands and it fits right under my palm. What do we need frickin' mouse wars for? Mouse, Monitor and Keyboard; use whatever floats your boat. These are the three chief i/o systems you'll use with your computer. They should chosen by each person for personal comfort. This is why I'm still using a six year old monitor and a nine year old keyboard with my iPuck.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Second off, the Puck. Many people have complained about the puck, and I frankly don't see why. The puck is designed for use in a certain position, where your palm does _not_ rest on the mouse, merely the fingers. This position is somewhat comfortable, so I really don't know why their mice (mouses?) are uncomfortable, for they are. The only fault I see is that there is only one button, but then again, the Mac OS only needs one.
Third, about the squeezing part... I really don't think it will be a pain to squeeze or push what appears to be five?! "pressure spots"? and a pseudo scroll wheel... I mean, think about it, everyone exerts some kind of force on your pointing device, and well, it requires force! The sensitivity of these mice would probably be adjustable to what a user needs, from a mere touch to a powerful blow.
It is cool that Apple is innovating... cordless mouse with an optical sensor, and the most shocking part, _no_ buttons, all *standard* with their new macs (hopefully). Well, this is certainly a good start for Apple to pump great hardware that we desire...
Created in Amsterdam, it seems...
Well, if Zoyd's got any reason to get annoyed with said room full of people (like maybe they keep asking him how come http:\\www.blahcom. doesn't work for them, everything said group of people are doing will become annoying... (Or maybe I'm projecting a little too much here?)
Intolerant people should be shot.
OK, a strange thing is that after sitting at an iMac for a couple of months at work, I don't mind the little hockey puck. It is actually surprisingly comfortable once you swallow the automatic distaste. I bought a tangerine iMac for my girlfriend (who is not a geek, see previous article...) and she actually likes is better than a full sized one.
A friend of mine (no name, no pack drill) works in the industrial design department at Apple. He tells me they did a lot of user testing on the iMac "hockey puck" mouse. The interesting thing is they tested mainly on women and children. That's why the mouse is so small - its not designed to be a good fit for large, male hands.
Is this smart? Depends on your point of view. But think about Apple's primary markets for iMacs: home users and schools. What percentage of those markets do you think are women or children? I think its a brilliant piece of design.
Of course, not having 3 buttons for quake3 is the real crime there. But then again, I don't play quake3 on her imac.
And for a very small amount you can buy a larger third party mouse with scroll wheels, multiple buttons. Ideal if you are a male professional user or games geek. Gotta love that USB :-)
Sailing over the event horizon
I think it's quite clear from the hockey puck mouse that Apple does not give a flying rat's ass about your comfort or health.
- - - - -
- - - - -
automatictaxistopelectriccigarettelovebaby
I do a lot of Photoshop work, on both PC and Mac. I use a 12x18 Summagrafix and a smaller Wacom, both with pressure sensitive pens.
There's no substitute for drawing. A mouse just doesn't cut it for some tasks.
When I got my first Mac (512K, 1985), it came with a "Guided Tour" application that showed how to use this newfangled pointing device, complete with a maze to run the cursor through.
Still boots up, BTW (System 3.2).
Too bad Microsoft ruined pen computing on the Wintel side. PENWIN.DLL anyone?
k.
--
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people
are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
First off, its not the old kind with the funky mousepad... it takes 1500 pictures per second and compaares each pic with the previoud one using its own onboard 18MIPS processor. Secondly, it would work on a glass table (i dont know why, but i just tested it and it does).
Mark Duell
I actually liked the Apple hockey puck mouse. The reason I replaced it was that gunk would collect on the internal rollers and prevent the mouse from moving smoothly.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
The Microsoft Intellimouse really is pretty cool technology. probably stolen technology but cool none the less!
so .... http://www.camra.org.uk
setup the same thing in your country, if you're out the UK, if not join it.
Perhaps, in place of a wheel, you must stroke the mouse with your finger...
May be usefull for some kind of simulation software.
Think about it? Would Apple really consider making a mouse that looks like a foot? That completely destroys the whole notion of a "mouse!" That would be needlessly confusing the user! Instead, the REAL new wireless mice, which use an ultra-powerful squeak-touch menchanism, will be soft and easy to distinguish. In fact, a reliable source gave me this picture. Check it out!
So hah, you gluts at AppleInsider, you are wrong and simply a part of the massive military/industrial conspiracy to undermine the raw goodness and fruityness of the world's most loved computer maker!
My number one pet peeve is the your/you're thing. It just shows one's complete ignorance when they do that. Not that I am the grammer Nazi here by far, but c'mon!
Of course, not having 3 buttons for quake3 is the real crime there. But then again, I don't play quake3 on her imac.
Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
the fact is that you can SCALE UP from one mouse button to
two or three mouse buttons, but the converse is not true -
you can't scale down from a multi-button system to a single
button and still be able to run the system.
i have a mac, i can plug in a microsoft FOUR button
intellimouse (with a scroll wheel too), and it just works --
the mac system DOES support multiple button mice - and in a
more consistent system-wide fashion than other systems.
so the mac user has the option of having ONE button, or MORE
buttons. the converse isn't true - the windows users CAN'T
use one button mice even if they wanted to. so i ask you:
who are you to impose multiple buttons on me, when i don't
impose one button on you?
Microsoft did not invent the optical mouse, please correct you brain and restart.
Jon.
http://www.jonmasters.org/
Heh. They fooled ya.
They don't need a squeezable mouse. They need another button!
PS - For my money, MS has hit a homerun with the optical mouse.
Da Cr33p
Also it looks like the offspring of a mouse that shagged a shoe
It would be neat to see this mouse made for the PC. I'm not sure if this would cause Apple competition against itself, but it would have a much larger market. I know I'd scrap my only piece of good Microsoft hardware in favour of this beauty. Notice, a trench for every finger... ahhh... all it needs is a cupholder...
How did a buttonless mouse ever get out of the "is this gonna fly" meeting? First of all, what does Apple have against tactile feedback? A click is good so you know when the button was really pressed.
Hey Apple: Compare the number of muscles and effort required to push your index finger. Now compare how many muscles are involved in tilting the whole mouse.
Not to mention that when I do some fine marking on a photoshop doc or something, I'm supposed to jiggle the mouse to make a click?
Then there's the training issue. Can you imagine a newbie user just sitting there looking at the mouse, wondering what the heck you're supposed to do with it? "OK, grandma, now tilt the mouse. No, tilt it the other way." Good god.
A hint to Apple: Change for the sake of change is not "innovation". Eliminating the mouse ball (e.g. MS's optical mouse) was a great thing -- because it dramatically improved it while still keeping it simple. This removes tactile feedback and makes it more complicated.
Just license MS's intellimouse and be done with it. As far as I'm concerned, that's the perfect mouse.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
While we're on the topic of redesigning computer mice: The insanely loud mouse click noise should be engineered out. One person browsing is bad enough. Several web terminals in the same room being used at once makes a hellish clatter.
Why? What is this feature for?
Is this the same cordless mouse? If so, then how the heck are you supposed to play games that require mouse buttons? I can't picture myself using one in Quake 3 Arena game :).
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The "StupidaMouse" from Dumbentia in 1998. (Warning - it's a pdf file.)
For the love of god, get a Newton. Keyboard/Mouse based UIs _can_ work with a pen, but never very well. I seriously suggest to you that if you're interested in pen-based interfaces, that you get a late-model (e.g. MessagePad 2100) Newton. The UI was designed from the ground up for this sort of thing. It's absolutely great. My favorite was erasing things. You scratched them out. Then they 'poofed' away in a cloud of smoke ;)
It was nearly as good as the Grouch....
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Don't mean to nitpick, but for people looking for what you're talking about, it's the Intellimouse Explorer or the Intellimouse with IntelliEye. The regular Intellimouse is a mouse with a ball, but what makes it "intelli" is the scrolling wheel. Anyway, yes, they are pretty good, but the price is still pretty high (~$60 when I got mine).
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DeCSS source code!
you must amputate to email me.
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you must amputate to email me
i read all replies to my comments
A foot mouse great. Hey, perhaps that's the beast that left the gnome logo foot print?
The comment I was responding to was about Sun's optical mouse of 1991 vintage. It had a funky pad.
Secondly, it would work on a glass table (i dont know why, but i just tested it and it does)
uh, I was being sarcastic... I'll try again.
Oh, yeah? What about on the surface of an exploding volcano?? while your gf shines a highly concentrated particle beam directly at the laser? huh? huh? Gotcha there didn't I? :)
2 1337 4 u!
Well, it looks like the site is NEARLY slashdotted... just slow as fsck right now. I know, in the past, this would have been a Good Thing to do to a Mac site. But now that OSX is comming out, what is the party line on Apple? Do we like it, or are they still fair to burn?
And I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned that this thing looks like an Adidas Soccer sandal...
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
They make good pucks, but that darn USB cable always gets stuck in the net after the shot ;)
lf.o
Thank you. Don't know why I couldn't remember the name, I specifically went looking for it when I built this desk.
Intolerant people should be shot.
The article seems to think that a corded mouse would be inferior to a cordless one. I myself prefer a corded one - it helps me keep the mouse oriented correctly, and I don't need to change batteries, ever. Remember who the target audience is here: complete non-geeks. Knowing when to change batteries, or even HOW to change batteries is often well outside their abilities.
About this whole buttonless thing: how does it work? Did Apple simply take an optical mouse and turn it inside out?
--Jeff
I've got just enough room on my keyboard tray for a keyboard an a mousepad. If I put the mousepad on the left, that centers the keyboard in front of me and puts the mouse in easy reach.
If I put the mousepad on the right, with my particular keyboard tray, that would mean I'd have to reach over awkwardly to type, and end up with some kind of RSI.
I used to have a wider desk-area, with the mouse off to the right, but constantly reaching for the mouse with my arm at an awkward angle was very uncomfortable and hard to be precise. Using it left-handed is at least better than that.
I still say the numerical keypad and cursor keys are exactly where the mouse should be.
"In reality, it [the mouse] does not appear as bulky and cumbersome as the sketches may imply, nor is its 'footprint-like' shape as apparent."
.dxf file instead of plain .gifs. Note how many views the page gives. Now THAT is inside info.
Oh yeah? And my TrackMan Marble FX doesn't look like a duck's head? (if you've got one, look at the side view).
It looks like a foot. Will they be releasing a leftie one though? I know a few people that this is going to piss off if they only release a rightie.
The lack of a mousebutton, however, is a *flaw*. Newbie users don't want to *guess* at how something works. Another flaw I see is that it looks like it makes you point and draw with your FIST, like a gorilla! "Ug!...grunt!....must click on slashdot icon!" Note to ESR: Got another pick for your Jargon File: Gorilla Fist (related to Gorilla Arm) from gripping an Apple mouse too long.
It also looks like someone smuggled out a
Besides, who the hell knows. This may be just a trial balloon. There's a LOT of stuff from Apple's Design Group that has NEVER SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY, except in a certain book I saw last weekend. As far as THAT goes, wow, they've got some original thoughts there.
By the way, can I head off an inevitable discussion? Whenever the subject of mice comes up, people (rightly) point out that the MS optical mouse rocks. After that, people feel the need to post that optical mice are nothing new, Sun had them ten years ago, etc, etc.
Just for the record: The old optical mice required a special pad with alternating mirror/dark squares. The mouse picked up light bouncing off the squares.
The MS mouse is much more sophisticated. It actually takes an image of the surface, and digitally compares frames to determine the mouse movement. That's why you can use it on any surface, including your leg (nice for those legs-on-the-desk surfing sessions).
The Intellimouse really is pretty cool technology.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.