This more or less means downloading the OS from scratch. Trivial on a T1, non-trivial on a modem.
There is some truth to this, but it's quite possible to do Debian on a modem (I did), or with something less than a T1.
In my case, I used a 2.1 install disk essentially as a base-system installer, and built up the rest of my system over the course of a week or so. If this is your first Debian box, this is a good way to fly. It's better to assemble a system slowly and see how things click into place than to try to load everything at once. My download sessions would run 8-10 hours. I've got dual phone service, (one of which is never in use, one of which is <g>). So it works. As stated, apt-get update and apt-get download -d can be scheduled for automatic execution (remember to echo a 'y' or linefeed to the latter for cron jobs).
Other alternatives:
Use the Zip disk transfer method. This is built in to dselect and/or apt, thought I haven't used it. You select packages on your base system, put the request on a removable disk, download from a faster connection, and transfer to your box. 100-125 MB of debs is a pretty good set of SW, this method works pretty well.
Go to where the bandwidth is. Take your box to a location that has bandwidth (office, install fest), and do your major installation from that point. You'll still have to do incremental upgrades, some of which can be substantial (mine run from ~100 KB to ~100 MB depending on activity and frequency).
Utilize a shuttle machine. If you've got a laptop, you can use it to mirror or download debs and transfer them between spots.
Share from your local connection. If you have multiple machines at the end of a slow pipe, share the debs between them so you don't have to download repeatedly over the same connection.
Other points to recognize: with Debian, more debs => more bandwidth required. Because each package has a probability of being updated, you are essentially required to provide more bandwidth to keep your system up to date. More arguments for keeping lean selection on board. If you're not using a package, lose it. Your updates will go faster.
You also don't have to upgrade your system. "If it ain't broke...". You should stay current on security alerts, but otherwise, if what you've got works, stick with it. Under unstable, there is a rather alarming frequency with which things break (does anyone out there have a successfully installed emacs19 or emacs20 from the past four months?), though usually this just means that the upgrade doesn't install. A --force usually works, though you're taking a risk.
I love the Web. I hate the Web. I love information, interactivity, communication. I hate banner ads, slow loads, and animated gifs. I've conquered most of these with three tools which work under Linux/xBSD and even legacy OSs:
Junkbuster. It kills junk -- banner ads, sites you don't want to see, cookies. Do it. It's good.
Squid. Caching proxy server. Stuff you hit often stays cached. Really good for static graphics, not so good for CGIs. Also good. You may also want to look at wwwoffle, an offline/online caching browser.
gat, the Gif Animation Toggle. Works for Netscape or Opera, Linux or 'Doze. Prevents animated gif looping. You see one cycle of animation, then everything freezes. Very cool.
I feel like my browser is mine again. Or, as the ads say: the Web is once again your friend.
When it comes to steak and sizzle, the problem is sites which confuse the two. Graphics and additional content are useful, but they're value-added over basic, accessible text. Accessible by people (including the disabled), accessible by machines (including, say, intelligent shopping agents), accessible by a variety of computing devices, including Palm and other handhelds, phone (text-to-voice -- unless you want a pel-by-pel breakdown of that gif), and a variety of devices whose display dimensions, formats, and characteristics are currently unknown.
The power of the web is its ubiquity -- access from anywhere, anytime, without a requirement for proprietary solutions -- hardware or software -- at either the sending or receiving end of the channel. While high-speed access is going to build its way into the fixed-site (and even some limited-range wireless) nodes, universal access from anywhere has to deal with the limited bandwidth and channel space of wireless.
I've found even the modified search forms (there are several floating around) hard to use given Deja's current breakage. The real lifesaver for me is dejasearch, a command line utility. Throw it a search and it saves the result set to a file which you can then browse. Find it here at Freshmeat.
Parents are legally responsible for the acts of their minor children. Jr. abuses the @Home account, Dad (or Mom) pays. It's called responsibility, folks.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Notebooks are servers too! Anti-defamation league
on
IBM banks on Linux
·
· Score: 2
Thing is -- there's a number of websites out there which started off on an old notebook. The idea of what is and isn't a server is really doing a headspin right now. My last consulting gig relied on a "server" that would be eclipsed by most of last year's notebooks -- a dual 90MHz HPUX box with 256MB RAM and about 8GB storage. This was a statistical analysis server for about a half-dozen statisticians and programmers at a major pharmaceutical company (granted, it was a gimpy old box the department had been saddled with).
And from all I've seen, Thinkpads make really spiffy Linux boxen, if you're willing to accept a few warts. It would be very cool if those warts could be removed.
And yes, I agree that the issue is more one of IBM being a large number of fairly autonomous divisions. Still, a unified vision in this one area would be most sweet.
Releasing nightly builds, aside from the full disclosure aspects mentioned by others, are for outside developers who need to follow the current development branch. This goes a long way to producing your non-crashing quality product.
This is a bit like a cafeteria -- just because the food is offered doesn't mean you have to sample from every dish, every day.
If you don't want the nightly build, grab the latest stable release and be happy with it.
The Debian release names come from characters in the movie Toy Story. A bunch of Pixarians in the dev group, methinks. Does this mean that development stops if the series ends?
What was the production cost of the software to Microsoft? I'm looking at marginal, not fixed costs of production here. A few seats of NTWS, an NTSV or two, BackOffice and Office -- that would pretty much fill it out, wouldn't it?
What was the likelihood of the MDBC-SL (or however you acronymize yourselves) purchasing the software had it not been contributed to them -- or better yet, selecting a free software alternative?
I keep getting inconsistant results. Queso from behind a firewalled machine said it was a Siemans host. Queso from my home box (behind Netcom/Mindspring) always shows "Dead Host, Firewalled Port" on anything. Checking Netcraft this morning I find:
www.lite.citifi.com is running Simple, Secure Web Server 1.1 on Solaris
Chris DiBona just posted to the SVLUG mailing list that the TRO has been rejected:
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Chris J. DiBona" <chris@dibona.com> To: "Derek J. Balling" <dballing@yahoo-inc.com> cc: svlug@svlug.org Subject: [svlug] Re: DVD X-Alternate-URL: http://www.svlug.org X-Mascot: penguin X-OS: Linux svlug.svlug.org 2.0.30 #3 Thu Aug 14 14:47:34 PDT 1997 i486 unknown
Just heard that the TRO was quashed. PAss it on!
Chris
-- Linux Community Evangelist, VA Linux Systems http://www.valinux.com President, Silicon Valley Linux Users Group http://www.svlug.org Grant Chair, Linux International. http://www.li.org Co-editor, Open Sources http://www.dibona.com
On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Derek J. Balling wrote:
> Have you heard anything about what, if anything, the judge decided? > What > happened after court was adjourned, since I had to head off to work? I > saw > KCBS there interviewing Rick, et al, out front, but was in too much of > a > hurry to get to the office to really stick around... > > D > > -------------------------------------------------- --------------------- > Derek Balling > 408-530-5062 > Technical Yahoo Do You > Yahoo!? >
-- echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ to unsubscribe see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml
Potato, contrary to popular belief, is updated, but updates consist of bugfixes (many security-related). You won't have the latest and greatest stuff out there, but if you want a stable box, it's the way to fly.
Slink offers a rapid development cycle and plenty of opportunities to experience the bugs and incompatibilities which plague other distros -- well, sort of (Slink is usually fixable). Packaging for Slink usually trails application release by a few days to a weeks for more obscure stuff. Plenty quick for me.
So have at it -- stable and conservative, or bleeding edge. Take your pick.
There is a project which packages KDE for a number of different distros, including Debian. You can add it as a source under/etc/apt/sources.list if you want to add KDE or KDE-based packages to your system, see here for more info.
What is the legal importance of the Findings of Fact for other current or new lawsuits against Microsoft? Does the FoF lower the bar of evidence that a plaintif would have to demonstrate in a damages or illegal practices claim? If so, is this limited only to the companies named in the FoF (Caldera, Sun, IBM, Netscape), or would other companies also be able to find some support in the FoF? Does this open Microsoft to increased legal risks?
If not -- why don't the "facts" found in the FoF apply to other cases.
Related question (also asked elsewhere), what is the appealability of the FoF as compared with any remedies or damages which might be levied against Microsoft?
Slashdot Mirror
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
This more or less means downloading the OS from scratch. Trivial on a T1, non-trivial on a modem.
There is some truth to this, but it's quite possible to do Debian on a modem (I did), or with something less than a T1.
In my case, I used a 2.1 install disk essentially as a base-system installer, and built up the rest of my system over the course of a week or so. If this is your first Debian box, this is a good way to fly. It's better to assemble a system slowly and see how things click into place than to try to load everything at once. My download sessions would run 8-10 hours. I've got dual phone service, (one of which is never in use, one of which is <g>). So it works. As stated, apt-get update and apt-get download -d can be scheduled for automatic execution (remember to echo a 'y' or linefeed to the latter for cron jobs).
Other alternatives:
Other points to recognize: with Debian, more debs => more bandwidth required. Because each package has a probability of being updated, you are essentially required to provide more bandwidth to keep your system up to date. More arguments for keeping lean selection on board. If you're not using a package, lose it. Your updates will go faster.
You also don't have to upgrade your system. "If it ain't broke...". You should stay current on security alerts, but otherwise, if what you've got works, stick with it. Under unstable, there is a rather alarming frequency with which things break (does anyone out there have a successfully installed emacs19 or emacs20 from the past four months?), though usually this just means that the upgrade doesn't install. A --force usually works, though you're taking a risk.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
I love the Web. I hate the Web. I love information, interactivity, communication. I hate banner ads, slow loads, and animated gifs. I've conquered most of these with three tools which work under Linux/xBSD and even legacy OSs:
I feel like my browser is mine again. Or, as the ads say: the Web is once again your friend.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
..."snake".
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
The power of the web is its ubiquity -- access from anywhere, anytime, without a requirement for proprietary solutions -- hardware or software -- at either the sending or receiving end of the channel. While high-speed access is going to build its way into the fixed-site (and even some limited-range wireless) nodes, universal access from anywhere has to deal with the limited bandwidth and channel space of wireless.
Smart design is simple design.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
I've found even the modified search forms (there are several floating around) hard to use given Deja's current breakage. The real lifesaver for me is dejasearch, a command line utility. Throw it a search and it saves the result set to a file which you can then browse. Find it here at Freshmeat.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Parents are legally responsible for the acts of their minor children. Jr. abuses the @Home account, Dad (or Mom) pays. It's called responsibility, folks.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Thing is -- there's a number of websites out there which started off on an old notebook. The idea of what is and isn't a server is really doing a headspin right now. My last consulting gig relied on a "server" that would be eclipsed by most of last year's notebooks -- a dual 90MHz HPUX box with 256MB RAM and about 8GB storage. This was a statistical analysis server for about a half-dozen statisticians and programmers at a major pharmaceutical company (granted, it was a gimpy old box the department had been saddled with).
And from all I've seen, Thinkpads make really spiffy Linux boxen, if you're willing to accept a few warts. It would be very cool if those warts could be removed.
And yes, I agree that the issue is more one of IBM being a large number of fairly autonomous divisions. Still, a unified vision in this one area would be most sweet.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Releasing nightly builds, aside from the full disclosure aspects mentioned by others, are for outside developers who need to follow the current development branch. This goes a long way to producing your non-crashing quality product.
This is a bit like a cafeteria -- just because the food is offered doesn't mean you have to sample from every dish, every day.
If you don't want the nightly build, grab the latest stable release and be happy with it.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
The Debian release names come from characters in the movie Toy Story. A bunch of Pixarians in the dev group, methinks. Does this mean that development stops if the series ends?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Incidentally, almost all California placenames. Katmai is a mountain in Alaska, not sure where Tanner is. Coppermine? Dunno.
...and it also explains why the Celeron always seemed to just be someone blowing smoke. Heck, it's the STONED virus in hardware....
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Before you get too enthused about the donation:
What was the production cost of the software to Microsoft? I'm looking at marginal, not fixed costs of production here. A few seats of NTWS, an NTSV or two, BackOffice and Office -- that would pretty much fill it out, wouldn't it?
What was the likelihood of the MDBC-SL (or however you acronymize yourselves) purchasing the software had it not been contributed to them -- or better yet, selecting a free software alternative?
And we call this a charitable donation?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
trash, air, Times Square crowd
milling millions millennium
waiting for the ball
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
You've got it all wrong:
cat man
While you're at it:
apropos 'What to wear to the party?'
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
I keep getting inconsistant results. Queso from behind a firewalled machine said it was a Siemans host. Queso from my home box (behind Netcom/Mindspring) always shows "Dead Host, Firewalled Port" on anything. Checking Netcraft this morning I find:
www.lite.citifi.com is running Simple, Secure Web Server 1.1 on Solaris
You can check it yourself.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
[root@angel:/root]$ queso www.lite.citifi.com
192.193.201.10:80 * Reliant Unix from Siemens-Nixdorf
The Maginot-skirting is classic FUBAR though.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Chris DiBona just posted to the SVLUG mailing list that the TRO has been rejected:
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:14:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Chris J. DiBona" <chris@dibona.com>
To: "Derek J. Balling" <dballing@yahoo-inc.com>
cc: svlug@svlug.org
Subject: [svlug] Re: DVD
X-Alternate-URL: http://www.svlug.org
X-Mascot: penguin
X-OS: Linux svlug.svlug.org 2.0.30 #3 Thu Aug 14 14:47:34 PDT 1997 i486
unknown
Just heard that the TRO was quashed. PAss it on!
Chris
--
Linux Community Evangelist, VA Linux Systems
http://www.valinux.com
President, Silicon Valley Linux Users Group
http://www.svlug.org
Grant Chair, Linux International.
http://www.li.org
Co-editor, Open Sources
http://www.dibona.com
On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Derek J. Balling wrote:
> Have you heard anything about what, if anything, the judge decided?
> What
> happened after court was adjourned, since I had to head off to work? I
> saw
> KCBS there interviewing Rick, et al, out front, but was in too much of
> a
> hurry to get to the office to really stick around...
>
> D
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Derek Balling
> 408-530-5062
> Technical Yahoo Do You
> Yahoo!?
>
--
echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Naturally, it is an Internet/Free Software concept, and that's as up-market as they get right now.
Naturally, the issuing share price will be free, and underwriting will be by volunteers.
...I thought I was confused, but now I just don't know....
Potato, contrary to popular belief, is updated, but updates consist of bugfixes (many security-related). You won't have the latest and greatest stuff out there, but if you want a stable box, it's the way to fly.
Slink offers a rapid development cycle and plenty of opportunities to experience the bugs and incompatibilities which plague other distros -- well, sort of (Slink is usually fixable). Packaging for Slink usually trails application release by a few days to a weeks for more obscure stuff. Plenty quick for me.
So have at it -- stable and conservative, or bleeding edge. Take your pick.
There is a project which packages KDE for a number of different distros, including Debian. You can add it as a source under /etc/apt/sources.list if you want to add KDE or KDE-based packages to your system, see here for more info.
Nick Petreley plugged this at IWE a ways back. I posted some screenshots of a few favorite sites: IWE, Slashdot, and The Register.
As previously stated: Karsten M. Self seal of approval with five stinky herrings.
What is the legal importance of the Findings of Fact for other current or new lawsuits against Microsoft? Does the FoF lower the bar of evidence that a plaintif would have to demonstrate in a damages or illegal practices claim? If so, is this limited only to the companies named in the FoF (Caldera, Sun, IBM, Netscape), or would other companies also be able to find some support in the FoF? Does this open Microsoft to increased legal risks?
If not -- why don't the "facts" found in the FoF apply to other cases.
Related question (also asked elsewhere), what is the appealability of the FoF as compared with any remedies or damages which might be levied against Microsoft?