Advocating that others should solve their own problems is different from being pro-genocide. I just don't like wasting money screwing around in foreign countries.
I agree we should have never been in Iraq in the first place but yes if I were them I'd want the people who broke it to fix it.
I'm not sure the US truly broke it to begin with, although damage was definitely done.
That's definitely not going to help anyone.
Neither will sending in the same army that caused the damage to begin with. It's just a waste of taxpayer money, and frankly, we should just leave the middle east alone.
Oh come on, that's why the troops have been *there* for the past decade. Iraq was always fucked up, America went in to stop some serious badness happening
The US should not be the world police. It's a waste of my god damn money, and a waste of everyone's money.
So America is going to take responsibility for fucking up Iraq and send troops back over to fix it?
The US should've never gone to Iraq or Afghanistan to begin with. And do you really want the same country that helped ruin the country to send more troops over to 'fix' it? That doesn't seem to be a good plan, and I don't want my country wasting anymore money on these idiotic wars.
That's because you want that to be true. You probably don't even notice instances where people bring up the same point when idiots say that democrats are so superior.
Anyone who doesn't think both parties are full of evil, worthless scumbags at this point is an idiot. The only difference is who their masters are; both want to violate our rights and the constitution, while pretending they want the opposite. No one can deny this.
I'm self-employed, 40-something, etc. I can tell you from hanging around with a lot of other folks like myself - they tend to vote Republican and give to the Republicans. Democrats get most of their funding from big business, big labor, and of course Hollywood. This data is openly accessible on the internet for those who care.
Both parties are just puppets. The puppeteers may be different different for each one, but that doesn't change what The One Party really is.
I'm not even sure if they should be described using terms like "right" or "left." Both parties are absolutely filled with authoritarian assholes who don't respect the constitution or people's individual liberties; that's all that needs to be said.
I'm all for having mandatory physical education or mandatory sports or whatever for kids
I don't like sports. I don't need to be taught how to do pushups or situps; I can learn that in five seconds. If you want to learn how to play a sport, voluntarily sign up for PE or learn to do it yourself. Educational institutions should be about bettering people's understanding of the universe around them, not about making them exercise. Don't waste my time with this junk, which one will never use if they leave school or after they graduate unless they really care.
This "I think it's a good idea, so it should be mandatory!" mindset is part of what makes me advocate homeschooling, aside from the problems with rote memorization, standardized testing, and one-size-fits-all education.
Naive? Like it's naive to expect the NSA not to spy on us? Like it's naive to expect that the government respect the constitution? Like it's naive to expect that the government not murder people without trial?
Having ideals and principles is not naive, even if they're at odds with the entire world. I am aware that every government in the world is full of evil scumbags; you don't need to tell me that. But I oppose their actions.
If you are the general public, you aren't real concerned with what the spooks are doing overseas
As an American, I am absolutely appalled that so many people think that foreigners have no rights. "Duty"/"Just doing my job" is no excuse. Violating people's rights is immoral.
So there are some people who are like me, at least.
He's not a traitor to Americans or the principles this country ("the land of the free and the home of the brave") is supposed to aspire to. The government, however, is full of traitors to those principles.
It doesn't really matter why he did it. He's effectively confessed to a number of espionage crimes.
It doesn't matter to me whether or not he broke unjust laws.
If he was a *just* a whistelblower about NSA's metadata collections, there were ways he could have done that
"And for what it's worth, I would have preferred he *had not* gone through the 'proper channels'. The People have a right to know when the government is violating the highest law of the land or people's liberties; not only do they have a right to know, but they should be the *first* to know. By going through the 'proper channels', you risk getting taken out of a position where leaking the information is possible, and then the whole issue would be swept under a rug."
And yet, with all the millions of documents he stole
Copied.
he cannot provide any evidence of this beyond "trust me."
Why do you think it is reasonable to expect that people have perfect foresight? He was in a dangerous situation, and not all of the instances where he might have tried to report the problems were necessarily recorded or accessible to him.
I also don't know why you blindly take him at his word.
Who really believes that corrupt government scumbags would care about this, especially when they're the ones who did this to begin with, and many of them still support it?
And for what it's worth, I would have preferred he *had not* gone through the 'proper channels'. The People have a right to know when the government is violating the highest law of the land or people's liberties; not only do they have a right to know, but they should be the *first* to know. By going through the 'proper channels', you risk getting taken out of a position where leaking the information is possible, and then the whole issue would be swept under a rug.
Even putting aside the facts that he was willing to break the oaths he took when he got his security clearance
He had a duty to report the violations of the constitution and people's liberties, silly "oaths" be damned.
he has a strong need to spin his facts and sell his view to keep from looking like a traitor.
You mean like the government? And you realize this is just a silly opinion piece, right?
Agreed. People should just stop caring about whether the government does anything illegal or violates people's individual liberties. Who needs freedom and privacy, anyway?
Yeah and the product in question was also created by these "cartels."
So, are you saying it is okay for these companies to bribe legislators to create draconian laws?
Don't like it? Feel free to create your own DRM free content and let everyone have the fruits of your labor. Nothing is stopping you but you and your selfish entitle ideology.
I'd say it's significantly more selfish and entitled to hinder the free market, free speech rights, and private property rights by telling people they can't copy & transmit certain information to others with their own equipment.
For all the screaming and crying that happens, you accomplish a whole lot of nothing. You've effectively lost this battle already, because you have no effective means of actually stopping people from transmitting the information. And even if you did have some draconian solution, it would just cause people to despise you.
I don't see how a democracy can function well if people are willing to so casually disregard laws they don't support.
People break the law all the time when it comes to copyright, drugs, and other such simple things. Yet, somehow we're not falling apart. Could it be because violating laws you believe are unjust doesn't mean you'll violate every law in existence, or the tendency of some people to do such things does not mean everyone will? It's usually minor laws where you're unlikely to be caught that get broken. Instincts and such keep people from wanting to go around murdering everyone, so that's not going to be a problem.
Rest assured, we won't fall apart just because people break unjust laws, even if the definition of "unjust" is ambiguous. History has proven this.
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They weren't solving their own problems, except through genocide.
Then they should probably try to fix it. It's on them.
So someone had to stop them, again, unless one is advocating genocide or indeed permitting it to continue.
Or just remain apathetic to the situation and deal with your own country. Iraq wasn't even that special when it comes to mass murder.
Was necessary, unless you are pro-genocide.
Advocating that others should solve their own problems is different from being pro-genocide. I just don't like wasting money screwing around in foreign countries.
I agree we should have never been in Iraq in the first place but yes if I were them I'd want the people who broke it to fix it.
I'm not sure the US truly broke it to begin with, although damage was definitely done.
That's definitely not going to help anyone.
Neither will sending in the same army that caused the damage to begin with. It's just a waste of taxpayer money, and frankly, we should just leave the middle east alone.
Oh come on, that's why the troops have been *there* for the past decade. Iraq was always fucked up, America went in to stop some serious badness happening
The US should not be the world police. It's a waste of my god damn money, and a waste of everyone's money.
So America is going to take responsibility for fucking up Iraq and send troops back over to fix it?
The US should've never gone to Iraq or Afghanistan to begin with. And do you really want the same country that helped ruin the country to send more troops over to 'fix' it? That doesn't seem to be a good plan, and I don't want my country wasting anymore money on these idiotic wars.
For fuck's sake. No, I wouldn't think it's okay, but that's my personal opinion. Why is this so hard to understand?
That's because you want that to be true. You probably don't even notice instances where people bring up the same point when idiots say that democrats are so superior.
Anyone who doesn't think both parties are full of evil, worthless scumbags at this point is an idiot. The only difference is who their masters are; both want to violate our rights and the constitution, while pretending they want the opposite. No one can deny this.
So it's OK if I rape your daughter
It's not OK to me. Individuals can try to stop people from doing things that they don't like. Individuals can also band together to create a society.
Objective morality is unnecessary, and I really have no reason to believe in it.
No, they aren't, but I have no reason to believe in such a thing, just like I have no reason to believe in a god.
I'm self-employed, 40-something, etc. I can tell you from hanging around with a lot of other folks like myself - they tend to vote Republican and give to the Republicans. Democrats get most of their funding from big business, big labor, and of course Hollywood. This data is openly accessible on the internet for those who care.
Both parties are just puppets. The puppeteers may be different different for each one, but that doesn't change what The One Party really is.
I don't have to believe in a deity to know that mistreating animals or oppressing my fellow humans is fundamentally wrong
What is "fundamentally wrong"? Whether it's wrong or right is an opinion.
I'm not even sure if they should be described using terms like "right" or "left." Both parties are absolutely filled with authoritarian assholes who don't respect the constitution or people's individual liberties; that's all that needs to be said.
I'm all for having mandatory physical education or mandatory sports or whatever for kids
I don't like sports. I don't need to be taught how to do pushups or situps; I can learn that in five seconds. If you want to learn how to play a sport, voluntarily sign up for PE or learn to do it yourself. Educational institutions should be about bettering people's understanding of the universe around them, not about making them exercise. Don't waste my time with this junk, which one will never use if they leave school or after they graduate unless they really care.
This "I think it's a good idea, so it should be mandatory!" mindset is part of what makes me advocate homeschooling, aside from the problems with rote memorization, standardized testing, and one-size-fits-all education.
If you pay attention to my posts, you'll see that I'm saying the foreign spying was immoral as well.
Naive? Like it's naive to expect the NSA not to spy on us? Like it's naive to expect that the government respect the constitution? Like it's naive to expect that the government not murder people without trial?
Having ideals and principles is not naive, even if they're at odds with the entire world. I am aware that every government in the world is full of evil scumbags; you don't need to tell me that. But I oppose their actions.
If you are the general public, you aren't real concerned with what the spooks are doing overseas
As an American, I am absolutely appalled that so many people think that foreigners have no rights. "Duty"/"Just doing my job" is no excuse. Violating people's rights is immoral.
So there are some people who are like me, at least.
He's not a traitor to Americans or the principles this country ("the land of the free and the home of the brave") is supposed to aspire to. The government, however, is full of traitors to those principles.
It doesn't really matter why he did it. He's effectively confessed to a number of espionage crimes.
It doesn't matter to me whether or not he broke unjust laws.
If he was a *just* a whistelblower about NSA's metadata collections, there were ways he could have done that
"And for what it's worth, I would have preferred he *had not* gone through the 'proper channels'. The People have a right to know when the government is violating the highest law of the land or people's liberties; not only do they have a right to know, but they should be the *first* to know. By going through the 'proper channels', you risk getting taken out of a position where leaking the information is possible, and then the whole issue would be swept under a rug."
The only 'proper channel' is through The People.
And yet, with all the millions of documents he stole
Copied.
he cannot provide any evidence of this beyond "trust me."
Why do you think it is reasonable to expect that people have perfect foresight? He was in a dangerous situation, and not all of the instances where he might have tried to report the problems were necessarily recorded or accessible to him.
I also don't know why you blindly take him at his word.
Who really believes that corrupt government scumbags would care about this, especially when they're the ones who did this to begin with, and many of them still support it?
And for what it's worth, I would have preferred he *had not* gone through the 'proper channels'. The People have a right to know when the government is violating the highest law of the land or people's liberties; not only do they have a right to know, but they should be the *first* to know. By going through the 'proper channels', you risk getting taken out of a position where leaking the information is possible, and then the whole issue would be swept under a rug.
Even putting aside the facts that he was willing to break the oaths he took when he got his security clearance
He had a duty to report the violations of the constitution and people's liberties, silly "oaths" be damned.
he has a strong need to spin his facts and sell his view to keep from looking like a traitor.
You mean like the government? And you realize this is just a silly opinion piece, right?
He made almost zero attempt to blow the whistle without going public
And you made almost zero attempt to find out why he went public.
and did irreparable damage to the US intelligence apparatus.
As an American, I hope so. The US intelligence apparatus acts in immoral and unconstitutional ways. But I don't think it'll be damaged so easily.
Agreed. People should just stop caring about whether the government does anything illegal or violates people's individual liberties. Who needs freedom and privacy, anyway?
Yeah and the product in question was also created by these "cartels."
So, are you saying it is okay for these companies to bribe legislators to create draconian laws?
Don't like it? Feel free to create your own DRM free content and let everyone have the fruits of your labor. Nothing is stopping you but you and your selfish entitle ideology.
I'd say it's significantly more selfish and entitled to hinder the free market, free speech rights, and private property rights by telling people they can't copy & transmit certain information to others with their own equipment.
For all the screaming and crying that happens, you accomplish a whole lot of nothing. You've effectively lost this battle already, because you have no effective means of actually stopping people from transmitting the information. And even if you did have some draconian solution, it would just cause people to despise you.
I don't see how a democracy can function well if people are willing to so casually disregard laws they don't support.
People break the law all the time when it comes to copyright, drugs, and other such simple things. Yet, somehow we're not falling apart. Could it be because violating laws you believe are unjust doesn't mean you'll violate every law in existence, or the tendency of some people to do such things does not mean everyone will? It's usually minor laws where you're unlikely to be caught that get broken. Instincts and such keep people from wanting to go around murdering everyone, so that's not going to be a problem.
Rest assured, we won't fall apart just because people break unjust laws, even if the definition of "unjust" is ambiguous. History has proven this.