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EU's Top Court May Define Obesity As a Disability
mrspoonsi (2955715) writes The EU's top court is considering a test case which could oblige employers to treat obesity as a disability. Denmark has asked the European Court of Justice to rule on the case of a male childminder who says he was sacked for being too fat. The court's final ruling will be binding across the EU. It is seen as especially significant because of rising obesity levels in Europe and elsewhere, including the US. If the judges decide it is a disability then employers could face new obligations. Employers might in future have a duty to create reserved car parking spaces for obese staff, or adjust the office furniture for them, she said.
i'm sorry europe.
Where's my tab?
God spoke to me
and have them harvested for their oil.
Save the Whales! Render the OBESE!
as long as the legislation includes mandatory diet and exercise regime.
King-Size Homer: In the episode, Homer despises the nuclear plant's new exercise program, and decides to gain 61 pounds (28 kg) in order to claim a disability and work at home.
The number of medical problems that actually cause obesity is very, very small.
The primary cause in 99.99% of cases is a higher intake of calories than output of calories as activity.
MD anonymous coward here, and sorry, that is how it is.
If this goes through, they should mandate a strict diet of vegetables, fruit, legumes, nuts, seeds, whole grains, fish and water for the duration of their benefits collection period. If this could somehow be enforced, very few of them would be on "disability" for long. By the same token, getting drunk should be considered for disability. The solution is simple. Stop eating processed garbage and eat lots of whole foods instead.
...we need a second sample, this one sucks!
So the people who could most use the exercise are going to have to walk the least.
I guess the overall plan makes sense; if you were to chop off your own leg you'd be considered disabled; I don't think the law makes any exceptions for self inflicted disability. It just seems wrong, though. Eat your way to not being able to fit in the office cubicle and your boss has to accommodate your mass by re-engineering the doors and floor to handle your breadth and heft.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
Actually, in the olden days, they'd likely be the ones doing the rounding, locking and burning.
Historically, obesity was only a problem for the very well off.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
If obesity is a disability, and the legal definition of maiming is to disable or disfigure, will McDonald's advertising -- particularly when it materially misleads about health issues, like their Olympics sponsorship campaigns -- be ruled negligent maiming?
Not saying it should or shouldn't -- just raising the question.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
And governments should be looking for ways to curb/eliminate obesity (as incredibly hard as this is).
I expect governments to do the opposite, however, and not fight against obesity and instead grant it privledges (special park spaces, etc.) and such.
Bloomberg was one of the few politicians willing to stick his neck out and implement common sense reforms.
Obesity needs the treatment that smoking was given.
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Obesity is a mental disability, most often an addiction to a wrong diet containing many addictive ingredients.
The way most people feed themselves is by stuffing enormous amounts of carbs, often a lot of them sugars in their face. Combine those with a little fat and all your body does is store fat and try and balance the glucose content of your blood. The carbs make your gut bacteria generate "happy hormones" that get in your blood, making you hungry and cranky if you don't get your fix, whether your body actually needs food or not.
The symptoms of this addiction are obesity and diabetes type 2. Please treat it as an addiction, not as a phyisical disability. If you do that, for example being taller than 6ft5 should be treated as a disability too and be given all benefits that should come with such a status. If being a size that's outside of what society will cater for is a reason to call people disabled.
Tall people can't help being tall, fat people in over 95% of the cases can help it if they kick the habit. If you treat obesity as a physical disability, you are insulting everyone with a physical disability for which there is no cure.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
You weren't sacked because you were too fat.... you were given the reason for dismissal: shortage of work. Now you want to invent an excuse that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything? If you were my employee, I'd sack you for being an asshat with an overinflated sense of entitlement.
Frankly, I have a far bigger problem with this guy's attitude than I do with them considering obesity a disability... not that I think that is a good idea either.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The concept of disability, at least in other cases, doesn't discriminate as to the cause -- if you shoot yourself in the head and end up permanently paralyzed instead of dead, you're considered disabled; if you accidentally lose an arm while working with a chainsaw, you're considered disabled; if you lose a foot to diabetes, you're considered disabled; if you have a bad reaction to a war you signed up for, you're considered disabled. In many cases, acute drug/alcohol treatment is considered to be an illness or disability if the issues are caused by the treatment rather than the addiction itself. In almost every other case, the definition of disability doesn't care if you did it to yourself or not. You are less abled than others due to a medical condition, therefore you're disabled. Why is this a special case?
I think they should clarify that they are talking about morbid obesity that servery impacts a persons ability to freely move about their surroundings. It is quite easy to became obese and a large portion of the population are obese, however few of them end up becoming morbidly obese no matter how poor their diet. The truth is that without additional risk factors, a medical condition such as hyperthyroidism, broken genes related to the normal function of appetite or a mental condition such as compulsive overeating disorder, it would be very hard for someone to reach the point where obesity is not just increasing their chances of a early death but also servery affects their mobility.
there are fat people in Europe? I never noticed. United States of America, yes. My friends in the U.S.A. who look fine want to loose weight. Not trying to be mean, just stating my opinion.
It all comes full circle. First black lung was a disability because once you get too old and too stupid to be a coal miner, they no longer want you in that profession. The very opposite is true of a judge. I guess now that they have gotten too fat and too stupid to ever be anything but judges, that must be considered a disability.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Not sure it's entirely true that it's the individuals to blame.
A large part is changing lifestyles, it's really hard to get enough exercise in day to day life now, that's not just motivation, it used to be inevitable.
"When I was a kid":
10km walk or pushbike ride to school, every day.
I used to pushbike to work as well, but at least around here where the urban planners are car friendly, it's just too dangerous. I ride a motorbike, so I'll accept a certain amount of risk, but a pushbike is just insane. There are bike lanes, but token ones, not ones designed to allow large volumes of cyclists to get from A->B safely.
No usable stairs in buildings - fire stairs yes, but not ones you can walk up and down without setting off alarms.
A lot of little things have changed which make it easy to NOT get exercise.
NO! kill all the fatties.
If it where a medical condition i could understand it, but it is mostly a problem of having the wrong style of life. Making bad decisions and being a lazy bastard makes you fat. The next logical step is to label being a complete idiot a disability (not low iq, just making bad horribly wrong decisions like turning up at work naked or sexually assault the photo copier etc.)
HTTP/1.1 400
That will kind of ensure nobody will hire fat people(being fat had nothing to do with it, he just wasn't what we were looking for, is anyone asks). Maybe they end up not having enough money to eat and then become thinner? Also, if there are special parking spaces they should be a copule of kilometers away to help in losing weight. Furniture adjustments could include replacing office chairs with crosstraining machines.
70 years ago food science hardly even began. Today they are actually engineering food to lose it's taste as quick as possible so you eat FASTER. I'm NOT kidding! They are trying to get you to consume MORE and crave it so you buy more of it. They take stuff that basically tastes poor that you would never want to pay to eat... and they add salt because it masks it; really. See if you can read about people testing junk food like those cheese crackers WITHOUT the salt being added.
Life is easier. Society is socially engineered for maximum consumption and to make you feel good ALL the time. Even facts have now become opinions you can dismiss whenever they bother you! Google tells you what you like to see in the results... Everything is geared to making you a user; not a consumer but a user. (like software hooks you in... fitting they call their customers "users" too.)
It's all setup to get you hooked in 1 way or another and if you are lucky and never get started in the food aspect; then good for you-- but once you get in, it won't be easy. It is likely the non-fat people are being roped into something else if it is not food; but hey, why not feel good and ignore your problems by picking on some other people?
Look, that would break the law of conservation of mass and energy. Thyroid condition or not, what mass you acquire can be in two form : water (the case of people having water retention) and real fat/muscle. In the first case there are rare people having such a problem. In the second case, this is bullshit that people cannot lose weight or avoid gaining it when they are aware of their condition. That mass is not coming from their "thyroid". It is coming from stuff they eat, and therefore limiting intake and practicing sport would fight the weight problem. Stating "I have a thyroid condition" is not an explanation of an obesity. In the very end you are still eating that mass and getting those calory from food.
Eh... no. This decision will have no effect on the US whatsoever. Or are you trying to say obesity in the US had some effect on the European decision? Either way, it's not relevant.
Reserved car spaces where, 3 miles away so they can't avoid a miniscule amount of exercise each day?
The number of medical problems that actually cause obesity is very, very small.
The primary cause in 99.99% of cases is a higher intake of calories than output of calories as activity.
MD anonymous coward here, and sorry, that is how it is.
Spoken like a true horse's behind that's never had a weight issue.
Do you have any idea how much energy is in food? If your body used all calories you input you would be fat as would everyone else. Different people's bodies metabolise food differently. That's why you can have someone who's had their stomach stapled and can't eat more than a plate's worth of food a day get fat. Also note that fat isn't just made of food. The air you breath and the water you take in also adds to the chemical process.
I can eat a very large bowl of salad and be hungry - as in EXTREMELY hungry - again in 20 minutes. That's not normal. People who eat too much often have a broken hunger drive. That's one reason long term weight loss through dieting is ineffective (something north of 90% put the weigth back on in 5-10 years if not sooner).
In other words, don't hire fat people. The list of people likely to cause problems to a company is growing pretty fast.
Coming from a big guy, I think this is a horrible idea. It's not a disability. M.R. is a disability. Quadriplegia is a disability. Not being able to pull away from the table shouldn't be a reason to get disabled parking spaces. They should put them at the FAR END of the lot so us big guys get some extra forced exercise. No one should have to adjust office furniture because I'm fat. You can only help people so much. You can't care about someone's healthy more than they do. If i'm fat, I'm fat. It's not like it's a surprise to me, and if my shirts cost extra because there's more fabric used, so be it. Don't cater to people because they're fat.
"the lifestyle choice to be homosexual."
You high?
You seem to be confusing sexuality and sexual practice.
At least then when the smart enough people involved in the process to determine whether FAT PEOPLE are disabled and deserve protection, they can say "What the fuck is wrong with you" to their coworker or boss that proposed it - and not get fired for doing so.
I'm not sure how to interpret that. Are you objecting, saying who you sleep with isn't a choice? Perhaps all homosexual are rape victims, even if they thought it was consentual adults out for a fun time? Or maybe it is genetic, some defect that needs to be cured?
It is already known that homosexuality is genetic. The exact gene(s) are not yet known, though. If someone is gay, there is a high chance that his uncle from the mother's side is gay too.
I don't have a parking space at work, reserved or othervise. And the office furniture is uncomfortable as-is. Might just take up obesity for its benefits, if this law passes.
This is an amazingly stupid idea and if it goes ahead there will be more food consumption, more waste. They are labelling people who are fat with people who have genuine crippling problems. The UK has to be one of the fattest places in the world right now with people wanting things given to them. THIS IS A JOKE!
What is common with all these?
- Depression
- Alcoholism
- Obesity
Apart from very few specific cases, they are all mostly controlled by behavioral choices.
Have gloomy thoughts about life, drink too much alcohol, eat shittily. Bang, there you go. In these cases, people need help in having better control in life, not disease treatment.
Now, the predicted angry response is the classic "tell that to the depressed person that cannot get up in the morning". Look, I understand, and I already said "apart from specific cases".
We've all been conned. Simple carbs in particular (white flour/bread, sugar, potatoes and all that are made from these, which constitute a huge part of the decadent modern diet) behave like a drug, creating a short-lived seratonin spike in the brain which acts as a mood elevator (this is how Prosac works). There is an insulin spike in the blood which depletes blood glucose levels very fast, creating a subsequent sugar crash. Up, then down, which creates psychological and physical craving to boost blood sugar and seratonin levels again ie this is an ideal drug of dependence. Complex carbs, otoh, are processed much slower in the gut and so don't create such rapid swings, which also seem to be associated with the onset of diabetes, a terrible epidemic which destroys health and damages the cardiovascular system and brain in particular. Stupid breakfast cereals, fast food and all the other sugary-starchy junk people eat are designed to exploit this dependence. Fat then piles on, because excess blood sugar that is not burnt as fuel just gets turned straight to fat. Protein also can cause this insulin spike but for some reason, at least in me (and people who do more pure caveman diets it seems), it is nowhere near as devastatingly effective as building fat.
Coca-cola and all the myriad food-drug pushers do not want people to understand this basic biochemistry, they prefer we spend money and die young from the destructive effects of obesity to make way for younger addicts. Former skinny person here, who got to 100kgs, now slender again because of this understanding.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a medical biochemist or nutritionist, however, I've read enough to believe the above to be true. Atkins realized this many years ago and was poo-hooed. But cutting simple carbs WORKS.
So when did you first choose to be straight?
because thats what it is and it should be treated the same way.
If the judges decide it is a disability then employers could face new obligations. Employers might in future have a duty to create reserved car parking spaces for obese staff, or adjust the office furniture for them, she said."
Don't forget the super-large portion of chips they require in the canteen too.
Being very tall =/= being disabled.
I'ld love to to see more attention to the physical inconveniences off people who are in the end of the statistical tails, but please;
let us start with those who can't do anything about it before we start with facilitating those who eat too much/don't exercise enough.
Yeah, obesity is a disease... affecting about 0.1% of the obese people. For everyone else, it's called not having your life under control.
We need to get back to a time where fat people are ridiculed in school, not accepted as the standard. But we need to add another message as well: That it's something you can fix. Eat right, exercise and you can stop being fat.
And that's why it is not a disease. Because people don't need medicine or treatment or anything, they just need to get their priorities right. Or not, frankly I don't care. Wait, I do care. Fatties are more expensive on the medical system, meaning I already pay for their lifestyle choice.
I have a very simple principle in life that has gotten me far: I don't feel pity for things that people do to themselves. Obesity falls into that category. Sure, if you grew up badly, thinking pizza and McD are normal food, blame your parents. But as soon as you're an adult, you can take care of yourself, you can learn to cook, you can do sports. Maybe it's tough, but that's life.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Minor correction guy, here. That's a proportionally higher chance, not a high chance. Since the best estimates for being gay put it at less than 10% of the population, a high chance of their uncles from the mother's sides being gay as well would mean, for example, for all those mothers that have a male sibling, there's at least a 25-50% chance those siblings are gay too. Since having a brother is so common, that means that if 10% of the populace is gay, somehow, there's also a general 2.5-5% of the overall populace that needs to be added to that. As a more specific example, if it's 'the future' and everybody who is gay feels absolutely no stigma about it, reports honestly, and we come up with a number such as 8%, we should add about 25-50% to it and report that the gay percentage of the population is really 10-12% or so, even if there's no other reason in such a case to think those uncles are not being counted already.
That's not really something that makes sense in this example - we can't have a gene that is detectable by its effect on a major behavior and argue that being someone's maternal uncle stops that behavior but the gene is still present, for example, So let me give you an example where adjusting the incidence for what we know about genetics just might make better sense, for contrast.
The genetics of schizophrenia have the highest corollation known for a genetic illness (not that being gay should necessarily be counted as a genetic illness, let's just stick with it being an effect with a genetiic component - but I think it's safe to identify schizophrenia as a generally undesired and dehabilitating condition.). If a person is schizophrenic, and has an identical twin, that twin has about a 50% chance of also developing schizophrenia. That's the top of the charts high chance corollation. Since many schizophrenics do go undiagnosed for substantial time, and many families attempt to hide the incidence of related cases in the family tree, or are in broad denial, it makes good sense to ask patients if they have an identical twin, warn them of the high potential for the disease, and to figure that the real niumbers of people at high risk or as yet undetected, should include a factor adjusting for the presence of occasional identical twins in the population. The link between male homosexuality and maternal uncles also bing gay is a lot less statistically significant than that, even though being somone's maternal uncle is a lot more common than being someone's identical twin.
Who is John Cabal?
Either you obesity causes you to have some real disabling condition like joint damage or breathing problems in which case you don't need a special 'obesity disability' to be considered disabled, or it doesn't cause you any disabling conditions and again, you don't need to be considered 'disabled.
It's like saying everybody that has been in a car crash should be defined as disabled.
Give this AC a cookie!
This case basically boils down to a Danish guy who wants to be entitled to special treatment because he's lazy. Obesity is just his excuse.
So if lack of self control is a formal disability, what about other consequences of lack of self control?
Citation please! Seriously, you're full if shit and spouting it too!
The difference is not big enough to be that noticeable. For two people of the same height and age, if they eat the same and exercise the same the weight difference will be within 10 pounds. 10 pounds at most, that's all, not 100 pounds.
Seriously folks, what's with all of the hate? If a person can perform their duties, there is no reason to dismiss them regardless of whether obesity is a disability or not. That is a discriminatory practice. A person's condition is also no reason to speculate upon its cause without evidence. We have a name for that too, it's called prejudice. (There is the "bad habits" comment, but that actually provides very little information. Is it due to a lack of exercise? Is it due to overeating? Is it even a medical diagnosis?)
That said, I am a bit concerned about the "sit on the floor and play with them" comment made by Kaltoft. Childcare does involve a degree a physical endurance, since you have to be on your feet and moving all day. Heck, even playing with children involves some running around.
For quite a long time I thought that, no matter what, if you eat less energy than your body needs, you will loose weight.
Then I learned about this "Thyroid condition" case...
In that case, even when people eat less than their body really needs, the body will stockpile the fat, to the point that the person can't sustain her functions and will faint.
So, those people don't have a lot of choice if they don't want to faint, they need to eat more.
How many "Thyroid condition" do we have in the population ?
I don't know. Anyone has some information ?
I guess that's not very common.
But usually I see fat people at self-service restaurant with :
=> delicatessen
=> meat, sauce and hydrocarbs
=> pastry
for every single meal!
While I usually take:
=> various raw vegetables without sauce
=> not always meat, but at least one vegetables (fries not excluded but once a week at most)
=> yogourt, fruit or occasional pastry
Guess what ? My weight is stable since over 20 years ( +/- 500g at most), and I'm rather slim.
That's why I show now mercy at all for fat people.
The vast majority of them eat too much, I can see that everywhere.
Bullshit. Instead of eating salad to try and lose weight, balance your diet and move your sorry ass. Balanced diet and regular exercise, that's all you need to stay fit. But if you ingest 4500 kcal a day while you spend 14h seated, you'll get very very very fat very very very fast. Unbalanced diets won't satiate your appetite, but if you eat the right proportion of fats, proteins and carbs, your body won't ask for more than it needs. A salad (mostly carbs, little to no fats and practically no proteins) is definitely NOT a balanced diet.
PS: Also, if you are used to ingest 4500 kcal your body will keep asking for them... but just for a while. A little discipline and your body will be perfectly happy with half that.
Because you can't grow yourself a new arm but you certainly can move your ass and lose weight. You can certainly get yourself in a stupid situation but as long as staying in that situation is up to you you're not disabled, you're just lazy.
It is the American system coming to EU: political decisions decided in the courtroom using law instead of letting the politicians decide. I sympathize with this guy but I will not have neither the courts, nor EU to interfere. I want the our national parliament in Copenhagen to make law saying it is illegal to lay of people for being obese when they otherwise perform their job.
Being fat is (for 99% of people anyway) a lifestyle choice rather than a genuine disability or medical condition.
If you choose to eat Big Macs and Original Recipe and M&Ms and Popcorn and Coke and other high fat/high sugar foods in quantities that are too big and if you choose not to get the exercise required to work off those calories and you get fat as a result, its your fault.
If you choose to buy your kids junk food instead of feeding them healthy food, its your fault that they are fat. If you choose to allow your kids to sit around in front of a screen all day instead of getting exercise, its your fault they are fat.
Why would any employer refuse to hire obese workers as long as they can pull their own weight, so to speak ?
If obesity is treated as an disability, then stupidity would be not that far off
And when stupidity is treated as an disability, then employers are forced to hire people no matter how fucking stupid they are !
Just how far are we going to allow this political correctness madness to spread ?
Actually it is Not known and in fact there is lots of evidence to the contrary. For example do entire prison populations change their genetic makeup upon entry and exit?
"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. Goddamn it Otto, you are an alcoholic! Goddamn it Otto, you have Lupus! One of those two doesn't sound right."
Iraq was always fucked up
You go fuck yourself !
It was USA which was so FUCKED UP that it goes around the world and fucked up other countries
In Latin America it fucked up Honduras, Guatemala, Brazil, Argentina, amongst others
In the Carribean it fucked up little island nations there
In Africa it fucked up Kenya, Rwanda, Nigeria, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Angola, amongst others
In Asia it fucked up Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran
Iraq was much peaceful under that dictator Saddam Hussein, who was obviously very far away from an angel, but at the very least that motherfucker managed to keep Iraq in one fucking piece
Because of America, because of George FUCKING Bush's goddamn lie about Iraq having the motherfucking WMD and used it to invade and destroy Iraq, now the innocent people in Iraq is paying the fucking price for the total fucked up things created by the totally fucked up America !
Go fuck yourselves, you mother-fucking Americans !
"who you sleep with isn't a choice?" - Who you sleep with is a choice, who you fancy isn't.
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
His wording was poor, and possibly intentionally provocative, but his point was that how a human being chooses to live their life is not solely dictated by their genes.
A person may have homosexual urges, but can choose to engage in heterosexual behaviour instead, for one reason or another.
A person may have an urge to rape, but can choose not to.
A person may have an urge to kill, but can choose not to.
And to bring it back to the on-topic comparison: A person may have an urge to eat, but can choose not to.
That we can make rational choices in defiance of our genetic and immediate emotional drives are what seperates us from base animals.
Gender is a genetic issue, and the exact chromosome that causes it is known. Don't know why they haven't cured that yet either...
For that to be true, it has to be the case that every prison rape incident is a result of sexual desire. You entirely ignore the possibility that prison rape is not only about sexuality itself, but about domination and power.
Citation: Juhani E. Lehto, Homoseksuaalisuus luonnontieteiden näkökulmasta.
There must be also some chromosome that causes these retarded angry AC comments.
Minor correction guy, here. That's a proportionally higher chance, not a high chance. Since the best estimates for being gay put it at less than 10% of the population,
Well, You are only off by 100%, that's not bad. In a Microsoft or Congress kind of way, that is. 50% is a failing grade.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm not the one confusing epigenetics and genetics. When one identical twin is gay, the other of the pair only has a 20% chance of being gay as well. It's not as simple as you want to pretend.
I think you're confusing "being homosexual" with "having gay sex". A homosexual finds themselves attracted to the same sex (and may or may not have sex with them) whereas prison populations might just be subscribing to the "any hole is a goal" philosophy and prefer gay sex to no sex.
Remember, sexuality is a continuum and the difference between a straight man and a gay man is generally about 8 pints of beer.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I am not pretending anything. I do not claim to understand almost anything about genetics, epigenetics (whatever that even means), or the causes of homosexuality.
Press that button at the left of your keyboard and it shall be dispensed shortly.
When being fat has become a protected disability, it is time to start removing people from this world.
The EU's top court is considering a test case which could oblige employers to treat stupidity as a disability. Denmark has asked the European Court of Justice to rule on the case of a male childminder who says he was sacked for being too stupid. The court's final ruling will be binding across the EU. It is seen as especially significant because of rising stupidity levels in Europe and elsewhere, including the US. If the judges decide it is a disability then employers could face new obligations. Employers might in future have a duty to simplify work tasks for stupidity afflicted staff, or simply do their work for them, she said."
Our prejudices are showing. The real question should be can morbidly obese individuals do everything a "normal" (whatever that means) person can. If no, then they have a disability. We seem to be confusing the cause of the disability with the existence of the disability. If I consume more calories than I burn, I may be the cause of the obesity, but that doesn't make anymore difference than if I am thrown from a four-wheeler and break my back. It's not the cause of the disability that determines if it is a disability, it is the result of the disability.
If obese people cannot do everything a non-obese person can, then they have a disability. Luckily, for many, it doesn't have to be a permanent disability. It also doesn't mean they need special accommodations by their employer (anybody with other than 20/20 vision also has a disability, that their employer normally does not accommodate unless very severe). However, by recognizing obesity as disabling, would mean that people could not be discriminated against.
People would fight back if an employer wouldn't hirer people who needed glasses (at least without good cause), why should we tolerate it if they won't hire overweight people? Some airlines want to charge more for overweight people. They say it is because their weight causes them to burn more fuel. That could be true, but if their real concern is about fuel, then they should discount the fee to underweight people because they are burning less fuel.
In the end, if obese individuals in Europe and elsewhere weren't being discriminated in some way, then this bill wouldn't be working it's way through the system.
I lost about 40 lbs in the past 4 months.
The "secret" Diet and exercise. mostly diet. I used to be in good shape, did power lifting, etc. After getting married, having 2 kids, and a hectic job, found many excuses. Last January was sick of it all and made a decision to change. Here are the things I found out that helped a lot.
* Support: you need support. Wife helps make healthy meals, lunch and supper
* Diet: yes, it's 80% diet. you can work out 5 days a week and eat crap and it won't make much of a difference. there are no secret pills, or other tricks.
You just have to eat better. Balance your food. No more garbage. Read ingredient labels. I find I paid more attention to what I ate after a tought workout. Do I really want to destroy and undo that 2 hours weight-training and cardio workout and eat this $PIECE_OF_GARBACE_SNACK? No. You think twice about it.
* Move: you need to exercise. With an office job not always easy, but do it. Get up and move. Don't sit too long.
* Exercise: yes, you need to exercise, even if it's just for your health. Go to a gym. Join a zumba class. Weight train. Be active. Do SOMETHING. One thing that does work is if you weight train, you burn carbs EVEN DURING REST.
Other advantages of working out: bad posture? strenghthen your back and you will feel better. no more physiotherapist for me. Gout? Stop eating so much meat and exercise you fat fuck. I had the gout for the first time. feet/toes were killing me. change your body.
* Motivate yourself: Track down your weight, set ACHIEVABLE goals. Eat better. plan your meals. Hungry all the time? Eat veggies. Need to eat carbs for fuel? eat QUALITY Carbs, not garbage. even with dietary restrictions (kosher, gluten free, lactose intolerance) you can do this.
Better quality food will cost more, but you are worth it. Cut down on junk food. Cut down on the junk food for your kids. Do you want them to model your good or bad behavior?
Do it for yourself. Do it for your spouse. Do it for your children. Do it to have a longer and higher quality of life.
Stop finding excuses. Trust me, I was the best at that. I've heard of mothers of 4 kids who work 10 hours days going to the gym at 5:00am. Not fun but you can do it. Find what works for you.
Don't expect immediate results and be disappointed. It takes time. It took about 2-3 months until I started feeling it. the weight starts going. People start noticing.
You need to change most of your wardrobe. Yes this will cost you extra $$$. It's worth it.
you'll become more resilient, think clearer, sleep better, be stronger, be more agile, and feel better. you don't have to become marathon runner or join a competition. Do it for you. fuck everything else. I've seen really obese people shed off 150lbs. IT IS POSSIBLE. YOU HAVE TO WANT IT.
This is not a temporary thing. This is not a once in a while thing. This is a life change. Do it because life is so important.
Now get off your ass, join a gym, get a video, find what works for you and do it. Not next week, now. Move it.
No more excuses.
Sorry for the long rant, but having been on both sides I can tell you that it's worth it. unless you have a real medical condition, obesity is something you can control.
I am not saying that it's easy, it's not, but you have to push yourself, you have to control what you put into your mouth and what activities you do.
do it.
I cant remember the last time i saw an actual handicapped person use one of those spots. Its always fat ladies.
Being obese certainly is disabling. However, it seems kind of weird to define a "disability" something that can be easily (if temporarily) cured by a fairly simple operation. It might even be cheaper for society to pay for periodic liposuction for "sufferers" than it would be to start accommodating the obese with bigger doors, chairs, seats, lifts, etc. everywhere. It would be an interesting economic study for someone.
How is it possible that obesity has been declared a disease? Well I do support obesity as a disease when it's the cause of a medical issue, just has a blown thyroid gland, I don't support it when you just decided to yourself to a blimp. We need to stop creating this culture of "It's not your fault you have no control, it's a disease." Obesity just like alcoholism is NOT a disease, the only thing that could be called a disease is your lack of will power and control. Lets stop blaming the situation and blame the person. We can't move forwards when we never take responsibility for our problems.
because, as an organization not concerned about PC, were allowed to persecute fat people and generally make their life miserable.
Now, as a civilian engineering manager, the first thing I see during an interview is how the candidate carries their body, and if there is any signs of motion restriction.
But more importantly, am starting to see correlation between obesity and poor analog design skills among candidates under 40 years of age.
It is a disability, in that being obese is inherently unhealthy and requires serious lifestyle changes and medical attention. It does not mean it's an excuse and an unchangeable reality that you can hide behind.
If your head hasn't yet caved in under the stupipressure, it'll be quite some time before they collapse.
they are a burden on us all, and in my opinion should be lined up against a waill and pissed upon, until cured or dead.
Who people sleep with is none of /your/ damn business. /you/ think that, then so be it. But I am _not_ OK with you imposing /your/ beliefs on anyone else because in that case, you are not asking for 'respect for your beliefs' but 'submissions of others to your beliefs'. THAT I have a really big fucking problem with.
You likely think that sleeping with members of the same gender is 'an abomination' and if
If you think it is cool with asking for submission to your beliefs, then others have as much right to demand you submit to their beliefs as well... and you don't want to go there because some people have some pretty fucked up beliefs...
...for elephantine pus-bags, who have rights, too.
This is brilliant.
People smoke to know what is going on in their company.
Now they will be getting fat to get better parking spot.
More commenters should be careful with their sneers. Its RELATIVELY easy for most single twenty-somethings with no kids to manage their weight. Most people find weight to be a bigger issue once they hit their mid-thirties as their metabolisms slow. Stress, kids, commuting and a desk job are brutal for weight management at any age though (hello IT workers).
If we honestly take a look at how our society is structured and then consider the prevalence of processed foods (that are loaded with salt, fat and sugar; and which are intensely advertised), its hardly surprising that we have massive problems with obesity in the today. Especially for poorer people who have less flexibility/control over their lives. This is a major problem -- and the hostility I see here (and so many other places) is very counter-productive.
From my own experience, I found that extreme stress (medical issue; not thyroid-related) and a desk job (at the same time) were more than enough to send my weight out-of-control (albeit not to obesity-levels). Extreme stress in particular really caused me to gain weight (look up the effects of cortisol if you don't understand why). Getting these factors under control was also enough to (more-or-less) fix the problem for me as well -- but this is certainly not an option for everyone.
All that said, I don't claim that individuals don't SHARE some of the blame for their own weight problems -- most of them certainly do. But given the environment that we live in, it would be surprising if weight problems weren't an issue in our society.
PS -- the few people that I know who work in IT and are fit are usually pretty hard-core into fitness (especially the ones over 35). This takes considerable time and effort on their part. This is extremely praiseworthy but lets not delude ourselves this is either realistic or desirable for everyone.
The number of medical problems that actually cause obesity is very, very small.
The primary cause in 99.99% of cases is a higher intake of calories than output of calories as activity.
MD anonymous coward here, and sorry, that is how it is.
You are technically right, the worst kind of being right. You are completely neglecting the multitude of e.g. psychological issues that cause people to eat so much they become morbidly obese.
This is not such a simple issue and oversimplifying it in a condescending way will not help this problem practically all first world countries are facing.
After reading the above exchange all I could think of was this:
Leonard McCoy: Dear Lord, do you think we're intelligent enough to — suppose — what if this thing [genesis] were used where life already exists?
Spock: It would destroy such life in favor of its new matrix.
Leonard McCoy: Its new matrix? Do you have any idea what you're saying?
Spock: I was not attempting to evaluate its moral implications.
Just because he doesn't consider the reason people eat too much in his post doesn't mean that he doesn't care, he was just claiming that most people don't have thyroid problems.
The protection of law is vital and it can work in two directions. A heavy person shops for a bicycle and discovers that all of the department store bicycles have a weight limitation and it would be unsafe for him to ride any of them. Some people will say that is ok. But that same person may walk into a diner and sit and have the seat or stool collapse and suffer great injury thus generating a large loss for the business or their insurance company. It becomes obvious that products released to the public must have a set standard of safety. The question is where we set such limits. We know that people that weigh 450 lbs. are common enough that products should be built to accommodate them. However 900 lb. individuals are rare and most businesses will never see a person of that weight. So maybe a 600 lb. user should be the mark by which products are designed to meet. Height is a similar issue. In a town that permits taxis to operate a man who is seven feet tall should be able to use a taxi just like anyone else. A permit to use a vehicle as a taxi should require that various sizes of people can fit with reasonable comfort and safety. As far as firing a child care worker due to his weight I think it only matters if the worker can not do the job. For example attending the children in the bath tub means that the worker must be able to fit into the bathroom. He does not need to look good doing it.
Before the advent of computers very few where overweight because work was manual, ask your grandparents. Perhaps fewer desk jobs, less computer, and healthy food choices would fix the problem without the need for Congress.
Many people diagnosed with a mental disabillity are indeed what normal people would call assholes.
Right, so all those gay people should either have sex with people they feel no physical attraction to, or abstain from sex entirely. Consigning them to a life of never having sex with someone they are attracted to is clearly far more socially responsible than making the homophobes uncomfortable about the existence of relationships that are none of their business.
(I would have rather replied to the provocateur directly, but their comment seems to have vanished entirely, despite my browsing at -1)
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
It's only a disability if it can't be corrected. Being fat is easily corrected.
We're sorry, the fingers you have used to dial... are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm... now.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Sure, the doctor isn't going to just recommend "stop cutting/head-bashing", he's probably going to prescribe some anti-depressants, recommend you see a shrink, etc. However to what extents are those protected disabilities?
These may be forms of mental illness, but they're not automatically disabilities (though they can be). There's also the differences between overeating, and eating too much of the wrong things. These would often have more in common with nicotine/alcohol/etc addiction, which again can have a varying range of impacts on one's ability to work (and/or legal implications for the workplace).
Great. A disability people choose to have. Want special treatment? Eat more, get fat and get preferential treatment!
So, who passed these rules? A bunch of fat assed legislators and regulators...
They're mostly empty calories.
1) It's not about how much you eat, but how much your body converts to fat. I went on Atkins and lost quite a bit of weight while still eating lots of calories.
2) If you severely cut down on calories, your body can become more efficient at using the calories it does eat.
So the trick is to convince your body that it's not hungry, doesn't need to be efficient, and doesn't need to store fat against future needs.
I like the idea of technology advancing so that someone else can inhabit your body for a short time and exercise and starve it until it loses weight and then give it back to you. It's Homer Simpson's campaign "Can't someone else do it?" There's an interesting book (fiction) on Kindle "Body Robber" that presents this idea. Alternatively, you could put someone into a deep sleep and get a machine to exercise them into shape and then wake them up. If obesity is a disability then governments should literally be able to force people into shape using these methods.
You're posting anon because you know you're being a total asshole and your karma would suffer for it. Anyone care to guess which /. a-hole this is? My bet is on Geekoid.
If it were solely about domination and power then you'd just torture them the old fashioned way. I'm sorry. I'll beat your ass all day like a dog. I may even chop your balls off if you're a particularly difficult learner. But under no circumstance will I fuck you in the ass to prove I'm the bigger man. Fucking dudes in the ass defines what being gay is.
I am really digging this new mod point change we've ended up with. I get 15 points to smack your idiotic posts down. Keep talking so I can use them all up. I have 8 left!
Except for a very few whom have medical issues. The majority of us, including myself, became overweight due to eating more calories that we could ever burn thanks to processed foods that contain high sugary content. Sodas are a huge contributor, HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) is in just about everything. Look at the ingredients. I didn't get the way I am overnight, it happened over several years...I am in the process of losing weight, which means diet modification and exercise. I have given up all sugary drinks. I am no longer eating processed foods. You would be surprised at how much weight you can shed by making simple choices. SODAs were the single biggest contributor to my weight. Obesity rates are a result of choice. People choose to be this way and not holding ones self accountable for your actions.
If being fat is a choice, why are more people choosing it now than in the past?
For years on end spamming us with their euroscepticism "we dopnt' want the EU do force us, blah, blah, our taxes, blah, blah" and now they want to make that the EU considers a self inflicted state as a disability costing us millions of EU in taxes if all the overweight start asking for subventions and the companies have to start adapting their locations for the fat.
The obese (with a few exceptions that are not statistically significant) are the way they are because they are lazy and overeat. Sorry, that's how it is. There is no obesity virus, no obesity gene and nobody forces anybody to stuff their faces and use the car even for going to the toilet.
These bastards already costs us a fucking lot extra in medical insurance bill
What's next?, yonkies? Smokers?
-- 29A the number of the Beast
I, for one, do not see obesity as disability in the same way that intellectual impairment is. You are not born obese and you do notbecome obese as a result of a car crash. You become obese because of your inability to control the amount and type of food that you eat. Lack of exercise probably helps. To call this a disability suggests that this is something over which you have no control. This is not true. We haveto hope that the trial does not go to an obese judge. Given that the number of obese people is increasing at aan alarming rate removing one of the incentives to have some control over ones weight is not recommended. There are good reasons for not wanting to hire obese people. They are more likely to need sick leave. How does the guy in the day care keep up with the kids? What if he fell on oone of them. This is a really bad idea.
There is too many people here justifying discriminating against overweight people as well as too many people justifying being overweight.
Why can't we just hire people based on their skill sets, instead of our biases?
I suppose I have a live and let live attitude about people that just isn't popular anymore, even on a site billed as "for nerds".
Weren't enough nerds like us tormented in our youth for the way we looked? I swore I would never torment people that way, and it saddens me that the "nerd culture" has become some close minded self righteous group of people.
//rant ended
All else being equal, I do and will continue to "discriminate" against obese people for most roles in my companies, even in the US - unless the candidate can demonstrate skills which far "outweigh" their thinner counterparts.
Many of the reasons have already been discussed (health and people "prone" to taking more days off, causing financial "loss" to me and unfair increase in workload on others; perceived lack of discipline, higher insurance costs et cetera), but one to be considered is that of safety.
Some of what we do involves being at 20ft or more above the ground, so I'm not going to hire a 300+lb/150+kg person because they won't be able to climb a ladder or because I don't trust the weight distribution on a cherry-picker.
Or if you're in the office, the last thing you need is a job that has you sitting on your arse all day unless you in a wheelchair for reasons other than being obese. And there is no way in hell I'm buying extra-large chairs or widening the doors because you call yourself "husky".
Or if you're out in the field, I don't want to give a bad impression to prospects & clients by having a sweating, wheezing mass wearing a now damp shirt with our logo on it (most of the areas in which we operate are fairly warm and humid).
In fact, I can't even really think of any jobs in my companies where obesity would be an advantage, save maybe being an anchor for someone on the side of a building.
While I accept that there is *some* truth in obesity being a medical condition (people don't know when to stop eating because the mechanism is broken, they quit smoking etc), it's still by and large a choice for the vast majority of excuse-makers. You're not big-boned, you're big-arsed. Either get used to it or change your habits - you can eat tasty food without resorting to the drive-through and you don't have to stick to a carrot a day to lose weight, either.
If you're obese and you really want to work for me, get to a healthier weight and then come back to me so that I can pick (or reject) you based on your merits.
Actually, I'd quite like to see something like the Japanese law that fines the obese implemented in the west.
Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com)
Eat the rich. A 1%er like Michael Moore could feed how many people instead of guzzling it himself.
I have been buring 23,000 calories per week for 18 months, yet my BMI (31-33) still labels me as obese, I am really starding to wonder if the defintion of obese is in itself political.
PS: I now eat as few carbs as possible, that is the hardest challenge of my day. Climbing mountains is easy compared to that.