i dont agree. i usually start reading the last posts (oldest) first since theyre more informative. randomizing would screw up the more informative posts and id have to read everything which is almost impossible sometimes.
yep. but dont forget that/. has grown in popularity and features on various mags since then. its also got more AOL kiddies coming in and has a direct link from linux.com...cant really go back.
thats ok but what happens if the person has opinions about an issue hat other ppl disagree with ? the moderators can easily kick him off. e.g. the anti-GPL crowd. i may not agree with their opinions but just because i have moderation points does that mean i moderate em down ? i *dont* like this idea of tracking moderation histories and stopping people from posting based on ip addresses..it raises a whole lot of other issues. IMHO, increase the number of moderation points and let the system take care of itself. make the range from -1 to -5 and let ppl filter as they see fit. i read at -1 anyway...i dont mind reading at -5.
Rob, as i pointed out in the other story which got trolled to death, giving more points oto moderators would effectively cure the trolling problem. Also marking down posts (all posts) with the same IP address would be a nice touch. Im not sure i like or agree with this new system..banning users from posting if they post behind a firewall or proxy with the same ip address is bad imho.
as an sgi admin user and long time sgi fan - i'd like to point out that SGI has the crappiest licensing scheme of *any* unix out there - nodelocked licensing sucks. are you on crack SGI ? Godammit if im running a critical app like proe and my license machine goes down, the whole department is shut down from using proe..the backup servers dont seem to do their job - GET YOUR HEAD OUTA YOUR ARSE SGI. Expensive licensing, modelocks, time limited stuff, a compiler (MIPS Pro) thats basically incompatible with GCC (slightly different language syntax - why ? why ?) Irix has been going downhill since 5.3..6.5 sucks..cant even do NFS properly.
i'll second this. its horrifying to find an SGI employee spreading FUD deliberately. SGI has loads more problems than any of my Linux boxes (even with NFS3 when Linux boxen are running the unfinished NFS2 and doing a better job). IRIX is *not* more stable than linux.
i had this too and still have this problem. Never managed to resolve it...Server has a load average of 0.3 and the NFS mounts still fail. *sniff* i love SGI machines but lately my linux boxes have been giving better and faster service than SGI boxes. For crying out loud - GET IRIX BACK ON TRACK OR DROP IT. HALF ARSED MEASURES REALLY PISS PEOPLE OFF. I'd love to see a linux port with full X support on my O2's, origin 200's, indys and origin 2000 boxes. cmon SGI - WAKE UP!
what most people dont understand is that genetic algorithms are usually pretty simple when explained in normal english rather than mathematical algorithms. Take for example an algorithm to find the shortest path between 2 points in a maze. Using a simple analogy we can consider a number of ants, travelling at the same velocity released from the starting point. When two ants meet, one dies, the other continues. At a fork, the ant "reproduces" to form two or more ants all travelling at the same velocity. Eventually the one which chose the shortest path will reach its destination and you can find the SP by tracing the route back. A sinple GA based SP algorithm. Now when this is put in the form of one or more mathematical equations, very few people have any *hope* of understanding it.
youre obviously braindead. look at rdist. the code (original) was BSD. the new code is not. its subverted and no one wants to use the original cos its full of bugs. if you believe this is freedom, youre a nut.
yep. most of the really clued in ppl have given up on BSD's and linuxen and use hardware and unixen with the muscle to put where their mouths are - AIX, OSF/1, Solaris and IRIX.
this is total bullshit. i upgraded from redhat 5.1 to redhat 6 (2 releases) just by inserting the boot disk and hitting upgrade. and it kept all my config files. oh i had to reboot too. i love the make all command. oh wait its the same as make world. slashdot.org runs linux. its under more pressure than your pidly little system. ive seen solaris boxes do far more than your stupid freebsd box..does that mean solaris can stand up to more pressure and is technically superior ? Lets all switch to solaris then. Get a clue. quit acting like one of the million of BSD snobs and grow up.
remove the spaces. its very enlightening tho..the first msg is posted below :
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:01:53 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" To: Aleph One Cc: freebsd-core@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP Filtering to www.freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:15:43 CST."
Next in thread | Previous in thread | Raw E-Mail | Index | Archive | Help
> I have come across some disturbing information. It seem that FreeBSD > project is filtering IP packets comming from the OpenBSD project. In > particular access from 199.185.137.*, and maybe 199.185.136.*, to > www.freebsd.org. If this is true it marks a very low point on the history > of FreeBSD.
This was started well over 3 months ago and is old old news. I fail to understand how this could only suddenly "come to light" for anyone involved with either project, we being very open indeed about it at the time (just search our mailing list archives for freebsd-hackers with Theo as the keyword).
We were forced to filter the OpenBSD project because the same hosts and/or IP address range that it uses were also used in repeated attacks against the FreeBSD project's mailing lists and development machines by Theo Deraadt, who actually owns the network in question. These were not covert attacks, they were very open and Theo sent personal mail to several core members threatening to escalate them with the aid of (quote) "his cracker friends." It was at this stage that we added filtering, to try and block (in one small way) such attempts.
When the OpenBSD project decides to have someone less criminally inclined as its representative, we'll be happy to discuss this with them. Until then, the man has shown himself unable to exercise a degree of self-restraint which would be consistent with someone of his age and responsibilities, and if he insists on behaving like a 14 year- old cracker then he will obviously be treated as such.
It is simply unfortunate in the extreme that he chose to use machines on the same network to conduct his attacks (also misusing a machine at MIT for that purpose, for which its admins were not amused), and has done the OpenBSD project a grave disservice in doing so. We have taken, I believe, only the most appropriate steps to defend ourselves from Theo's juvenile behavior and will continue to do so.
> If the project is to succeed its in the basis of its quality, support, > and technical merits, and not by means of cheap tricks. Anyone wish to > comment?
This is no "cheap trick", this is self-defense, plain and simple. I only regret that such defense against a "leading light" in the software community is necessary at all.
Trust me folks, we have ample documentation for the claims I make above and if you'd like a second opinion, just ask the NetBSD project why it does precisely the same thing with packets from Theo's network. The list of people singularly unimpressed with Theo's behavior in the past and with great reason to distrust it in the future is long indeed. I can only suggest that the OpenBSD project find a more credible representatitive, and if you choose Kevin Mitnick as your best man then you probably shouldn't be too surprised if the FBI shows up at your wedding.
very simple solution - whack gnome/E with a winnt lookalike theme on the suns and tell your manager that you have an new kind of windoze running on the suns - an NT "port".
if a user account is compromised, root access *will* be obtained one way or another. any admin would be horrified at your clueless statement above claiming that openbsd with a compromised user account would somehow be less vulnerable to attackers. fact is - user accounts is a last ditch attempt at raising the bar for attackers..once the guy logs in, its all over. BTW, those imapd vulnerabilities etc, would also affect openBSD..the kernel may be secure but utilities used could compromise the system. dont tell me that an openbsd systems with vulnerable KDE desktop is any more secure than a linux system with an imapd overflow. both systems are compromisable.
actually on IBM machines ( i have several ), the password is physically burned into a PROM chip with tamper resistant hardware. you cant remove it , documented or not.
tell that to the guys at phrack magazine who have a neat little openbsd compatible kernel module to subvert your tried and trusted OS. recommend checking back issues of phrack you BSD snob.
the problem with easier to write also means potentially buggy closed source drivers are also easier to write. why bother open sourcing when you can close ? If the UDI was released for linux under the GPL (making it impossible for closed source drivers to link to it) it might be a different case. Since linux (& UDI) will probably be LGPLed, this is a big pain in the arse and closed source drivers are more likely to appear rapidly.
Slashdot Mirror
i dont agree. i usually start reading the last posts (oldest) first since theyre more informative. randomizing would screw up the more informative posts and id have to read everything which is almost impossible sometimes.
yep. but dont forget that /. has grown in popularity and features on various mags since then. its also got more AOL kiddies coming in and has a direct link from linux.com...cant really go back.
so do the posters who post behind firewalls and proxy servers. tying ppl to ip addresses with a *history* is *bad*
thats ok but what happens if the person has opinions about an issue hat other ppl disagree with ? the moderators can easily kick him off. e.g. the anti-GPL crowd. i may not agree with their opinions but just because i have moderation points does that mean i moderate em down ? i *dont* like this idea of tracking moderation histories and stopping people from posting based on ip addresses..it raises a whole lot of other issues. IMHO, increase the number of moderation points and let the system take care of itself. make the range from -1 to -5 and let ppl filter as they see fit. i read at -1 anyway...i dont mind reading at -5.
Rob, as i pointed out in the other story which got trolled to death, giving more points oto moderators would effectively cure the trolling problem. Also marking down posts (all posts) with the same IP address would be a nice touch. Im not sure i like or agree with this new system..banning users from posting if they post behind a firewall or proxy with the same ip address is bad imho.
heres another one :
FIRE and TORN make one word when combined. what is it ?
try freetracker/modtracker/soundtracker on freshmeat.net ...some other stuff is there too.
we moderators ran outta points. the AC has an inifnite supply of postings. more points rob..puh-lease.
/. should mark down all posts from the same IP once moderated. this idiotic anonymous coward is trolling here with an inifinte supply of postings.
hi sens!
as an sgi admin user and long time sgi fan - i'd like to point out that SGI has the crappiest licensing scheme of *any* unix out there - nodelocked licensing sucks. are you on crack SGI ? Godammit if im running a critical app like proe and my license machine goes down, the whole department is shut down from using proe..the backup servers dont seem to do their job - GET YOUR HEAD OUTA YOUR ARSE SGI. Expensive licensing, modelocks, time limited stuff, a compiler (MIPS Pro) thats basically incompatible with GCC (slightly different language syntax - why ? why ?)
Irix has been going downhill since 5.3..6.5 sucks..cant even do NFS properly.
i'll second this. its horrifying to find an SGI employee spreading FUD deliberately. SGI has loads more problems than any of my Linux boxes (even with NFS3 when Linux boxen are running the unfinished NFS2 and doing a better job). IRIX is *not* more stable than linux.
i had this too and still have this problem. Never managed to resolve it...Server has a load average of 0.3 and the NFS mounts still fail. *sniff* i love SGI machines but lately my linux boxes have been giving better and faster service than SGI boxes. For crying out loud - GET IRIX BACK ON TRACK OR DROP IT. HALF ARSED MEASURES REALLY PISS PEOPLE OFF. I'd love to see a linux port with full X support on my O2's, origin 200's, indys and origin 2000 boxes. cmon SGI - WAKE UP!
what most people dont understand is that genetic algorithms are usually pretty simple when explained in normal english rather than mathematical algorithms. Take for example an algorithm to find the shortest path between 2 points in a maze. Using a simple analogy we can consider a number of ants, travelling at the same velocity released from the starting point. When two ants meet, one dies, the other continues. At a fork, the ant "reproduces" to form two or more ants all travelling at the same velocity. Eventually the one which chose the shortest path will reach its destination and you can find the SP by tracing the route back. A sinple GA based SP algorithm. Now when this is put in the form of one or more mathematical equations, very few people have any *hope* of understanding it.
youre obviously braindead. look at rdist. the code (original) was BSD. the new code is not. its subverted and no one wants to use the original cos its full of bugs. if you believe this is freedom, youre a nut.
yep. most of the really clued in ppl have given up on BSD's and linuxen and use hardware and unixen with the muscle to put where their mouths are - AIX, OSF/1, Solaris and IRIX.
this is total bullshit. i upgraded from redhat 5.1 to redhat 6 (2 releases) just by inserting the boot disk and hitting upgrade. and it kept all my config files. oh i had to reboot too.
i love the make all command. oh wait its the same as make world.
slashdot.org runs linux. its under more pressure than your pidly little system. ive seen solaris boxes do far more than your stupid freebsd box..does that mean solaris can stand up to more pressure and is technically superior ? Lets all switch to solaris then.
Get a clue. quit acting like one of the million of BSD snobs and grow up.
remove the spaces. its very enlightening tho..the first msg is posted below :
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:01:53 -0800
From: "Jordan K. Hubbard"
To: Aleph One
Cc: freebsd-core@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: IP Filtering to www.freebsd.org
Message-ID:
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:15:43 CST."
Next in thread | Previous in thread | Raw E-Mail | Index | Archive | Help
> I have come across some disturbing information. It seem that FreeBSD
> project is filtering IP packets comming from the OpenBSD project. In
> particular access from 199.185.137.*, and maybe 199.185.136.*, to
> www.freebsd.org. If this is true it marks a very low point on the history
> of FreeBSD.
This was started well over 3 months ago and is old old news. I fail
to understand how this could only suddenly "come to light" for anyone
involved with either project, we being very open indeed about it at
the time (just search our mailing list archives for freebsd-hackers
with Theo as the keyword).
We were forced to filter the OpenBSD project because the same hosts
and/or IP address range that it uses were also used in repeated
attacks against the FreeBSD project's mailing lists and development
machines by Theo Deraadt, who actually owns the network in question.
These were not covert attacks, they were very open and Theo sent
personal mail to several core members threatening to escalate them
with the aid of (quote) "his cracker friends." It was at this stage
that we added filtering, to try and block (in one small way) such
attempts.
When the OpenBSD project decides to have someone less criminally
inclined as its representative, we'll be happy to discuss this with
them. Until then, the man has shown himself unable to exercise a
degree of self-restraint which would be consistent with someone of his
age and responsibilities, and if he insists on behaving like a 14
year- old cracker then he will obviously be treated as such.
It is simply unfortunate in the extreme that he chose to use machines
on the same network to conduct his attacks (also misusing a machine at
MIT for that purpose, for which its admins were not amused), and has
done the OpenBSD project a grave disservice in doing so. We have
taken, I believe, only the most appropriate steps to defend ourselves
from Theo's juvenile behavior and will continue to do so.
> If the project is to succeed its in the basis of its quality, support,
> and technical merits, and not by means of cheap tricks. Anyone wish to
> comment?
This is no "cheap trick", this is self-defense, plain and simple. I
only regret that such defense against a "leading light" in the
software community is necessary at all.
Trust me folks, we have ample documentation for the claims I make
above and if you'd like a second opinion, just ask the NetBSD project
why it does precisely the same thing with packets from Theo's network.
The list of people singularly unimpressed with Theo's behavior in the
past and with great reason to distrust it in the future is long
indeed. I can only suggest that the OpenBSD project find a more
credible representatitive, and if you choose Kevin Mitnick as your
best man then you probably shouldn't be too surprised if the FBI shows
up at your wedding.
Jordan
join the linux security auditing team..they even have a website to document audited software and a mailing list.
very simple solution - whack gnome/E with a winnt lookalike theme on the suns and tell your manager that you have an new kind of windoze running on the suns - an NT "port".
if a user account is compromised, root access *will* be obtained one way or another. any admin would be horrified at your clueless statement above claiming that openbsd with a compromised user account would somehow be less vulnerable to attackers. fact is - user accounts is a last ditch attempt at raising the bar for attackers..once the guy logs in, its all over. BTW, those imapd vulnerabilities etc, would also affect openBSD..the kernel may be secure but utilities used could compromise the system. dont tell me that an openbsd systems with vulnerable KDE desktop is any more secure than a linux system with an imapd overflow. both systems are compromisable.
actually on IBM machines ( i have several ), the password is physically burned into a PROM chip with tamper resistant hardware. you cant remove it , documented or not.
tell that to the guys at phrack magazine who have a neat little openbsd compatible kernel module to subvert your tried and trusted OS. recommend checking back issues of phrack you BSD snob.
the problem with easier to write also means potentially buggy closed source drivers are also easier to write. why bother open sourcing when you can close ? If the UDI was released for linux under the GPL (making it impossible for closed source drivers to link to it) it might be a different case. Since linux (& UDI) will probably be LGPLed, this is a big pain in the arse and closed source drivers are more likely to appear rapidly.
yeah. like a web tv clone box for example.