This is an incredible argument. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You need POSITIVE proof that women are paid less for the same work, not innuendo or faith. The Department of Labor, which has a duty to deal with these issues, did the most thorough investigation ever, and concluded that there was no evidence.
Read the methodology - it sucked.
Also, I provided not one, but 4 different sources that said otherwise.
You know, this would make an interesting slashdot poll. "Would you volunteer to go on SpaceX's first manned flight?"
[_] Yes.
[_] Hell,. yes.
[_] I just volunteered my boss.
[_] Anything to get away from my ex.
[_] Does it come with free flight insurance?
[_] Depends - do I have to be groped by a TSA droid?
[_] Sure - it's not like they can be worse at losing my luggage.
[_] I was okay with it until I heard their theme song was David Bowie's "Space Oddity"
[_] CowboyNeil already tried to boost me into orbit.
[_] I can do "spam in a can."
The lure of the great adventure has always attracted the curious.
Musk and everyone at space x should be executed for the murder they are going to commit.
By that thinking, everyone at NASA should have been executed after the capsule fire that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee.
That's was as an accident by a government agency. Space x is going to commit murder for profit. If you're too stupid to understand the difference you should be executed along side them.
So nominate me to make the flight. If it blows up, you get what you want. If it doesn't, I get what I want. Either way, we ultimately advance our knowledge and capabilities.
Musk and everyone at space x should be executed for the murder they are going to commit.
By that thinking, everyone at NASA should have been executed after the capsule fire that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee.
Astronauts know that what they are doing is fraught with risk. As one of them said, "You're sitting on millions of pounds of explosive chemicals, with thousands of parts, all made by the lowest bidder."
The don't have to ask what could go wrong. They know. And they still go.
Where I live, the parents are free to divvy up the parental leave any way they wish.
So, you're saying that women only take more parental leave because they bully the menfolk into continuing to work?
(See, slanted interpretations are fun!)
No - what I'm saying is that we have a more enlightened attitude than the US. We don't discriminate against men who want to spend time with their children during their most formative years. It's socially acceptable to have both take 6 months off, either at the same time, or one after the other.
Male teacher bangs student? Male and female alike want his nuts cut off.
Female teacher does the same? Well, the boy was lucky... where were female teachers like that when I was a boy?!
Male teachers who have sex with underage female students are viewed as statutory rapists or creeps; women who do the same are perceived as doing the boy a favour or providing a rite of passage, evidenced by the inevitable “Where was she when I was in high school?” cracks.
Sound familiar? The "no harm done" attitude people have towards male victims isn't right, and people's attitudes are changing, albeit slowly.
First, you're the one who chose the paper, not me. And the paper did not say that it wasn't happening - even after every excuse, the gap was still 7%. Are you willing to forgo 7% of your income - for life?
While more education is an effective tool for increasing earnings, it is not an effective tool against the gender pay gap. At every level of academic achievement, women’s median earnings are less than men’s earnings, and in some cases, the gender pay gap is larger at higher levels of education. While education helps everyone, black and Hispanic women earn less than their white and Asian peers do, even when they have the same educational credentials.
The pay gap also exists among women without children. AAUW’s Graduating to a Pay Gap found that among full-time workers one year after college graduation — nearly all of whom were childless - women were paid just 82 percent of what their male counterparts were paid.
I thought the government provides support (the basics) to the single mothers? Also, they can get child support payments from the father, for a very long time.
I thought you knew all this? Weird.
"Basic support" is less than minimum wage. And sometimes it's not possible to get child support payments because the father is himself unemployed or not around or maybe even deceased.
The mindset that "girls would make bad programmers...
Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is that girls are less interested, not less capable.
In that case, what's the problem with this program, if "girls are less interested"? After all, if they're less interested, they won't apply, right? But if their decisions are being affected by other factors, this program may help bridge the divide.
The Department of Labor commissioned a study on the gender pay gap. None could be determined to be caused by discrimination. They could not even conclude that there was any pay differential when all non-discriminatory factors were accounted for. "An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women"
If you bothered to actually read the paper, you would have noticed this:
Many researchers have independently derived results in statistical analyses of different data sets that consistently indicate that the main factor accounting for the gender wage gap is differences between the occupations in which men and women typically work.
That's referring to why the "raw" pay differential is 20%. And this:
After accounting statistically for human capital factors other than gender, however, their results indicate that female workers are more concentrated
than male workers in low-paying industries. As a result, based on their estimates of gender wage gaps for the most detailed set of industry categories, Fields and Wolff have found that the industries in which the workers are employed can account directly for as much as 22 percent of the gender wage gap. Further, the observe d difference in the distributions of male and female workers among the industries can account for an additional 19 percent of the gap. In total, industry can account for as much as 38 percent of the raw gender wage gap.
The thing is, why do women end up in lower-paying jobs in the first place? This program is designed to address some of that by giving more women the qualifications they need to move into higher-paying jobs.
Males tend to be more aggressive when asking for money (not always, just a tendency, and aggression isn't limited to salary).
And that's also part of the problem - the aggressiveness isn't limited to money. Look at the incarceration rates for men vs women - men take the lead at something like 15 to 1.
Where I live, the parents are free to divvy up the parental leave any way they wish.
money spent getting males into Vetinary sciences
The number of women who are veterinarians has only outnumbered men since 2009. The problem in IT has been going on much longer, and runs much deeper.
Plus, the same chance of being the stay at home partner when children arrive (males are vastly under represented here.
Maybe if women were able to make the same amount of money for the same experience in the same job, the numbers would be better. Also, there's nothing to prevent from doing this - it's something that should have been discussed before having kids.
Oh, and compulsory genetic testing at childbirth (so every male will have the same knowledge that the child is theirs as the mother has)
Sure, if we can also have a global database so that when men cheat and get another woman pregnant, their significant other is also notified so she can decide whether she wants to throw the bum out.
But you know what, a male will never have the same bond with a child as the mother, because that's biologically impossible.
[citation needed]
What's the big picture here? The sexes aren't equal in all things; one sex has advantages in some areas. People make their own choices along the way.
Part of the problem is that women "choose" to leave certain industries because they are paid less for the same job with the same experience and the same qualifications.
So how do you explain all those single moms who manage to do both? According to your thesis, women shouldn't be able to, because they're not "hard-wired" to. And what about families where both parents work. Or families being raised by two lesbians or two gays (and the kids on average turn out better than hetero couples, esp. with respect to lower levels of child abuse and domestic violence)?
And the answer of 3 million is obviously way off on the face of it, unless you limit the kids to one diaper per year. Obviously someone who never changed a diaper.
How? Just look at the pay differential between the sexes with the same amount of experience and the same qualifications doing the same job. One way to eliminate this invisible privilege would be to make all salaries public - but there would be riots.
Guys are generally used to sucking it up and getting on with the business of focusing back on that whole hunter-gatherer thing - it's how we're wired. There are exceptions in either direction of course, but they're not the general rule. Generally, the business of getting that little snot factory raised, educated, nurtured, and prepared for the world becomes a woman's focus much quicker than it does for a guy.
Thank you for confirming that men are hard-wired to be self-centered heartless pr*cks who are okay with putting their career over their family.
While I think the opportunities for anyone QUALIFIED to get jobs in the industry,
Geez, I gotta get some coffee in me and read before I hit submit.
"While I think the opportunities for anyone QUALIFIED to get jobs in the industry should be open and equal..."
Sorry, but I think you need MOAH KOFFEE. This is not about "diversity for diversity's sake." Equality in education is needed before people can get those qualifications. The mindset that "girls would make bad programmers... because there aren't that many of them in the industry long-term" permeates the education system.
The satellites have a fixed life. Once they run out of propellant, they're pretty much useless. On top of that, many (or even all) their satellites can be knocked out - permanently - in one day with a really good solar storm.
Agreed. Let them get a warrant instead of going off wasting resources on fishing expeditions, which is what the "surveillance state" is quickly degenerating into.
Slashdot Mirror
You stupid Americans are so clueless it is beyond believe. A lot of people don't even like the Russians but even they can see the contrast today.
Your entire nation is a lie.
I am NOT from, or living in, the USA. Replacing a gang of thugs with a gang of crooks doesn't look much different.
This is an incredible argument. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You need POSITIVE proof that women are paid less for the same work, not innuendo or faith. The Department of Labor, which has a duty to deal with these issues, did the most thorough investigation ever, and concluded that there was no evidence.
Read the methodology - it sucked.
Also, I provided not one, but 4 different sources that said otherwise.
You know, this would make an interesting slashdot poll. "Would you volunteer to go on SpaceX's first manned flight?"
[_] Yes.
[_] Hell,. yes.
[_] I just volunteered my boss.
[_] Anything to get away from my ex.
[_] Does it come with free flight insurance?
[_] Depends - do I have to be groped by a TSA droid?
[_] Sure - it's not like they can be worse at losing my luggage.
[_] I was okay with it until I heard their theme song was David Bowie's "Space Oddity"
[_] CowboyNeil already tried to boost me into orbit.
[_] I can do "spam in a can."
The lure of the great adventure has always attracted the curious.
Given the reply to your post, I do believe you're right. I wonder though - do troll hides make good ablative shielding?
Musk and everyone at space x should be executed for the murder they are going to commit.
By that thinking, everyone at NASA should have been executed after the capsule fire that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee.
That's was as an accident by a government agency. Space x is going to commit murder for profit. If you're too stupid to understand the difference you should be executed along side them.
So nominate me to make the flight. If it blows up, you get what you want. If it doesn't, I get what I want. Either way, we ultimately advance our knowledge and capabilities.
You might want to update your thinking (or get a new tin foil hat). The Russians are the bad guys again.
Musk and everyone at space x should be executed for the murder they are going to commit.
By that thinking, everyone at NASA should have been executed after the capsule fire that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee.
Astronauts know that what they are doing is fraught with risk. As one of them said, "You're sitting on millions of pounds of explosive chemicals, with thousands of parts, all made by the lowest bidder."
The don't have to ask what could go wrong. They know. And they still go.
This astronaut is going to wind up dead. Good thing the dragon capsule doubles as a coffin.
Do you have any idea how many people would volunteer to take the ride, even with the risks? Either way, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Where I live, the parents are free to divvy up the parental leave any way they wish.
So, you're saying that women only take more parental leave because they bully the menfolk into continuing to work?
(See, slanted interpretations are fun!)
No - what I'm saying is that we have a more enlightened attitude than the US. We don't discriminate against men who want to spend time with their children during their most formative years. It's socially acceptable to have both take 6 months off, either at the same time, or one after the other.
Male teacher bangs student? Male and female alike want his nuts cut off.
Female teacher does the same? Well, the boy was lucky... where were female teachers like that when I was a boy?!
You need to get with the times.
Male teachers who have sex with underage female students are viewed as statutory rapists or creeps; women who do the same are perceived as doing the boy a favour or providing a rite of passage, evidenced by the inevitable “Where was she when I was in high school?” cracks.
Sound familiar? The "no harm done" attitude people have towards male victims isn't right, and people's attitudes are changing, albeit slowly.
First, you're the one who chose the paper, not me. And the paper did not say that it wasn't happening - even after every excuse, the gap was still 7%. Are you willing to forgo 7% of your income - for life?
There are multiple sources that show women are paid less overall, as well a paid less for the same work.
While more education is an effective tool for increasing earnings, it is not an effective tool against the gender pay gap. At every level of academic achievement, women’s median earnings are less than men’s earnings, and in some cases, the gender pay gap is larger at higher levels of education. While education helps everyone, black and Hispanic women earn less than their white and Asian peers do, even when they have the same educational credentials.
The pay gap also exists among women without children. AAUW’s Graduating to a Pay Gap found that among full-time workers one year after college graduation — nearly all of whom were childless - women were paid just 82 percent of what their male counterparts were paid.
It starts right out of school.
I thought the government provides support (the basics) to the single mothers? Also, they can get child support payments from the father, for a very long time.
I thought you knew all this? Weird.
"Basic support" is less than minimum wage. And sometimes it's not possible to get child support payments because the father is himself unemployed or not around or maybe even deceased.
The mindset that "girls would make bad programmers ...
Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is that girls are less interested, not less capable.
In that case, what's the problem with this program, if "girls are less interested"? After all, if they're less interested, they won't apply, right? But if their decisions are being affected by other factors, this program may help bridge the divide.
The Department of Labor commissioned a study on the gender pay gap. None could be determined to be caused by discrimination. They could not even conclude that there was any pay differential when all non-discriminatory factors were accounted for. "An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women"
If you bothered to actually read the paper, you would have noticed this:
Many researchers have independently derived results in statistical analyses of different data sets that consistently indicate that the main factor accounting for the gender wage gap is differences between the occupations in which men and women typically work.
That's referring to why the "raw" pay differential is 20%. And this:
After accounting statistically for human capital factors other than gender, however, their results indicate that female workers are more concentrated than male workers in low-paying industries. As a result, based on their estimates of gender wage gaps for the most detailed set of industry categories, Fields and Wolff have found that the industries in which the workers are employed can account directly for as much as 22 percent of the gender wage gap. Further, the observe d difference in the distributions of male and female workers among the industries can account for an additional 19 percent of the gap. In total, industry can account for as much as 38 percent of the raw gender wage gap.
The thing is, why do women end up in lower-paying jobs in the first place? This program is designed to address some of that by giving more women the qualifications they need to move into higher-paying jobs.
Males tend to be more aggressive when asking for money (not always, just a tendency, and aggression isn't limited to salary).
And that's also part of the problem - the aggressiveness isn't limited to money. Look at the incarceration rates for men vs women - men take the lead at something like 15 to 1.
Ok, and let's get equal leave for paternity
Where I live, the parents are free to divvy up the parental leave any way they wish.
money spent getting males into Vetinary sciences
The number of women who are veterinarians has only outnumbered men since 2009. The problem in IT has been going on much longer, and runs much deeper.
Plus, the same chance of being the stay at home partner when children arrive (males are vastly under represented here.
Maybe if women were able to make the same amount of money for the same experience in the same job, the numbers would be better. Also, there's nothing to prevent from doing this - it's something that should have been discussed before having kids.
Oh, and compulsory genetic testing at childbirth (so every male will have the same knowledge that the child is theirs as the mother has)
Sure, if we can also have a global database so that when men cheat and get another woman pregnant, their significant other is also notified so she can decide whether she wants to throw the bum out.
But you know what, a male will never have the same bond with a child as the mother, because that's biologically impossible.
[citation needed]
What's the big picture here? The sexes aren't equal in all things; one sex has advantages in some areas. People make their own choices along the way.
Part of the problem is that women "choose" to leave certain industries because they are paid less for the same job with the same experience and the same qualifications.
So how do you explain all those single moms who manage to do both? According to your thesis, women shouldn't be able to, because they're not "hard-wired" to. And what about families where both parents work. Or families being raised by two lesbians or two gays (and the kids on average turn out better than hetero couples, esp. with respect to lower levels of child abuse and domestic violence)?
You mean hard wired to sacrifice themselves to take care of their family?
Funny how single moms manage to do both, isn't it?
Maybe they did - haven't seen a post by him all year (though the year is young).
And the answer of 3 million is obviously way off on the face of it, unless you limit the kids to one diaper per year. Obviously someone who never changed a diaper.
How? Just look at the pay differential between the sexes with the same amount of experience and the same qualifications doing the same job. One way to eliminate this invisible privilege would be to make all salaries public - but there would be riots.
Guys are generally used to sucking it up and getting on with the business of focusing back on that whole hunter-gatherer thing - it's how we're wired. There are exceptions in either direction of course, but they're not the general rule. Generally, the business of getting that little snot factory raised, educated, nurtured, and prepared for the world becomes a woman's focus much quicker than it does for a guy.
Thank you for confirming that men are hard-wired to be self-centered heartless pr*cks who are okay with putting their career over their family.
Geez, I gotta get some coffee in me and read before I hit submit.
"While I think the opportunities for anyone QUALIFIED to get jobs in the industry should be open and equal..."
Sorry, but I think you need MOAH KOFFEE. This is not about "diversity for diversity's sake." Equality in education is needed before people can get those qualifications. The mindset that "girls would make bad programmers ... because there aren't that many of them in the industry long-term" permeates the education system.
The satellites have a fixed life. Once they run out of propellant, they're pretty much useless. On top of that, many (or even all) their satellites can be knocked out - permanently - in one day with a really good solar storm.
Agreed. Let them get a warrant instead of going off wasting resources on fishing expeditions, which is what the "surveillance state" is quickly degenerating into.