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Dish Introduces $20-a-Month Streaming-TV Service

wyattstorch516 writes "Dish Networks has unveiled Sling TV, its streaming service for customers who don't want to subscribe to Cable or Satellite. From the article: "For $20 a month — yes, twenty dollars — you get access to a lineup of cable networks that includes TNT, TBS, CNN, Food Network, HGTV, Cartoon Network, Adult Swim, the Disney Channel, ESPN, and ESPN2. ESPN is obviously a huge get for Dish and could earn Sling TV plenty of customers all on its own. ESPN just ended another year as TV's leading cable network, and now you won't need a traditional cable package to watch it. For sports fanatics, that could prove enticing. But Dish has hinted that there may be limits on watching ESPN on mobile thanks to red tape from existing deals between the network and Verizon."

196 comments

  1. Lawsuits already in progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If Aereo couldn't stream broadcast TV because of copyright and got shut down because it isn't a cable provider, Dish won't be able to do this either.

    1. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Aereo didn't get the right licensing agreements with the local broadcasters... Dish already has the right contact list from its DBS business.

    2. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by TheSync · · Score: 2

      Dish already has the right contact list from its DBS business.

      Dish may have the "contact list", but certainly it does not yet have the rights to stream broadcast television stations on the Internet without entering into an agreement with those stations (which likely would mean additional retransmission fees).

      Of course you can already watch broadcast stations for free over the air in actual HD quality, as opposed to the very likely lower quality streaming unless you can keep a 10 Mbps H.264 stream going continuously over your Internet connection.

    3. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually it does have broadcast rights, and they will have gathered the correct "addons" for "streaming" rather than "rebroadcast" - though both are forms of "retransmission" rights.

      Remember, they already have had Sling doing it's thing from subscriber equipment for over 7 years, this is just expanding on the tech and broadcasting from their datacenter instead to sling software based customers.

      This should be interesting.

    4. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also if you have flown on Southwest Airlines recently you might have noticed that Dish has a free onboard live TV streaming service, which seems an awful lot like what's being discussed here. I wouldn't be surprised if that was pretty much the same thing, just to be offered via login on the open internet rather than on the closed wifi network inside the plane.

    5. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And they didn't say that local broadcast stations were included. Because they arn't.

    6. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Yo jackass, this isn't broadcast. It doesn't carry broadcast TV. Way to read the article.

    7. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Does anybody read anymore. No broadcast TV. Deals with ESPN, CNN and other networks. Jesus get off your fucking ass and read people.

    8. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      It already has those rights. You can, as a Dish subscriber, view any channel right now over the Internet.

      Considering that their introductory price is $20/mo. for a sat. dish parked on your roof, there's essentially no difference right now, save that with this new service, you don't have to have hardware bolted to your house.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by TheSync · · Score: 2

      You can, as a Dish subscriber, view any channel right now over the Internet.

      As a "Dish subscriber" you can stream on authenticated devices, but not as a "Sling TV subscriber". That would require another contract between Dish and content providers.

    10. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by AlexSasha · · Score: 1

      it may or may not - unless you have read the legal forms governing the existing agreements.

    11. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Dish may have already gotten the streaming rights as part of a "Sign this or we turn your channels off!" contract recently, and if they didn't the networks could sue Dish and take a penalty from the DBS business.

    12. Re:Lawsuits already in progress by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      DBS doesn't work in the sky... what Southwest is offering is similar to DirecTV;s offering on JetBlue.

      For example, you can't watch live Fox News Channel programming while flying, but, you could see the an "evergreen episode" of "Outnumbered" at the same time as a broadcast viewer. (An "evergreen" episode is always true... no current news, but interesting stories that won't go false in the next week.)

      Normally they only refresh these tapes once per week, but Fox News is willing to produce these tapes if you're known to one or more of their broadcasters or producers.

  2. Trademark foul... by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 2

    Isn't "Sling" somebody else's trademark for a like product?

    1. Re: Trademark foul... by jonhorvath · · Score: 1

      Dish bought Sling a few years ago.

    2. Re:Trademark foul... by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Sling trademark is owned by Dish's former parent company Echostar. Dish network's new offering, Sling TV (announced today), is a new service being offered -- it is not being offered under the Dish Network brand, but as its own product.

    3. Re:Trademark foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and Dish owns it.

    4. Re:Trademark foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Echostar (Dish's parent company) bought Sling Media back in 2007.

      Sling media has also been used as part of Dish's Broadcast offerings for years. Sling equipped 622s, 722s and Hoppers have been "Slinging" dish customers recordings and live feeds for 6+ years now.

    5. Re:Trademark foul... by xeoron · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the Sling Box, which does the same thing for all channels at no monthly cost, will stream to all devices locally or internationally, comes with Chromecast, Roku, AmazonFire support and has a built-in dvr. How is this Sling TV better?

    6. Re:Trademark foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slingbox has to be set up where you already have a TV subscription that is paid for. It also has to be in control of changing the channels of whatever source you're using to feed into it, so if you only have one cable or DirecTV box or whatever, then could in theory be fighting for channel selction between Slingbox user and somebody actually watching TV on the spot at that time. Or you can pay a little extra to have a second receiver box set up somewhere else in the house.

    7. Re:Trademark foul... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because then you have to have tv service - either cable/whatever or OTA. I have internet only fios since I don't want to pay the extra 50-60 bucks for cable. Use netflix and hulu. I would consider using this service if the line ups were good.

    8. Re:Trademark foul... by cdrudge · · Score: 2

      Because in order to use a Sling Box to stream those channels, you need to have a cable/satellite service to provide the content. This service streams the channels so you don't have to subscribe to a traditional cable or satellite provider at a rate most likely higher than $20 a month.

      It's possible that this service isn't better than other options for some viewers. It may be exactly what others are looking for. It's never a bad thing to have multiple options, especially in an sector that's typically a monopoly or oligopoly.

    9. Re:Trademark foul... by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Slingbox is has the same bandwidth problem as peer-to-peer... you have to start the connection at your home connection, not at a server that's halfway between your home and where your cell phone is network-wise.

  3. Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    To say goodbye to Comcast. I have been caught with the problem of family members who wanted those certain networks.

    Now...bwahahaha.

    1. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      Isn't this thing kind of like Netflix, but worse and more expensive?

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    2. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netflix doesn't have ESPN.

    3. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Netflix doesn't have ESPN.

      That's not a bug, it's a feature!

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    4. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but not as bad or as expensive as my family members, and while I could justifiably homicide Comcast, the cops would probably take a dim view to me offing the rest of them.

      Except Uncle Hubert. Nobody likes him.

    5. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      It's a pretty big bug for people who like watching sports. I'd think live sports are the only advantage that cable has over Internet based entertainment at this point, so this is a pretty big deal. I'm not into sports, so I ditched cable and moved to NetFlix and Hulu a long time ago. People who are into sports can now do the same with this service.

    6. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by nobuddy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is us vs the in-laws. We cut cable years ago and are fine with netflix and hulu (and Plex streaming our massive DVD collection)
      When the inlaws come over, they are floored at the concept that we cannot watch sports. We really don't care to, but that does not figure in to their calculations.

    7. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol - exactly - I have all ESPN / Sports related channels on parental lockout on my equipment :)

    8. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If one of them has Dish, just use an iPad with Apple TV or an Android tablet with Google ChromeTV to watch their Dish sports via Sling.. (rebranded as Dish Anywhere). :)

    9. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Except that it has current content, which Netflix does not have. But the content this new service has is only a few channels. Yes they're popular channels, but I don't want any of them myself.

      The problem is that $20 is too much for a single channel, so if you have 5 shows you like to watch and they're all part of different bundles then you end up paying more than you would with cable potentially. Netflix has a good price point; cheap enough that you put up with the few things you can't get and the fact that some stuff is a year old (but it's great for catching up with older stuff). I was going to get Hulu for a couple of my must-see shows except that Hulu won't show one of them this year and $8 is too expensive for my tastes for one single show that I can see near the end of the year instead. Similarly, $15 to watch only some Big Bang Theory episodes is vastly overpriced, may as well get Netflix DVD service.

      ESPN and Disney are key points though: there are people who subscribe to TV solely for sports, and those with children who exert high pressure to keep those Disney programs.

      I think that by the time people are ready to cut the cord to cable or satellite (and Dish isn't that great a satellite service anyway), that a $20 bundle of a handful of channels isn't going to bring many of those people back. It's still too far away from a decent ala-carte channel selection, which was one of the big problems with cable/setellite subscriptions. I'd say $20 is ok if I get to pick the 5 channels that comes with it, and I am allowed to see old episodes as well (or else allow a keep-it-forever DVR system).

    10. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by HairyNevus · · Score: 1

      You may still wind up with those problems of certain networks being unavailable. Dish gets into spats with providers all the time and doesn't back down easily. I don't mind the current Fox News debacle, but losing AMC (a while ago) and then Adult Swim (among others) for periods of time drove me off.

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    11. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by mysidia · · Score: 1

      My view is Cable Internet + Netflix and Hulu are good enough, and any family members that want more should pay for it themselves or split the cost of the additional fees.

    12. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by adolf · · Score: 1

      So?

      If they want all of the comforts of their own home, perhaps they should not leave it.

    13. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Netflix has a good price point; cheap enough that you put up with the few things you can't get and the fact that some stuff is a year old

      But, if you are *only* watching Netflix, as things come down the pipe, they are new to you...so, does it really make a difference?

      I rarely go see a movie in a theater upon release. I wait until they come out on bluray or netflix, so they are new to me, although they have been out for awhile previously.

      I've never understood people that have to see it first thing as it is released, and wait in lines, etc...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    14. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they want all of the comforts of their own home, perhaps they should not leave it.

      Or you could act like a decent human being in this situation. People like to spend the holidays with their families. My family LOVES to watch football on Thanksgiving. Each year we rotate who in the family hosts the holiday at their abode. My family knows that I don't have cable, but they still wish I did, and if there was an easy (and cheap) way for me to get some sports and maybe food network, I'd like to make their stay a little nicer.

    15. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      It's a separate service. You don't need Dish. "It will include television programming and sports events from Walt Disney's ABC, ESPN and Maker Studios, Time Warner's TNT, CNN, TBS, Cartoon Network and Adult Swim, and Food Network, HGTV and Travel Channel." http://boxingdispatch.com/sci-...

      That's a pretty good deal since you are being raped on programming costs from cable or fios.

    16. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Your problem, is you're okay with bad business, as along as it doesn't affect you directly. The fiasco with Fox is just a representation that I don't want to deal with Dish at all, regardless of my views on Fox, or AMC or Adult Swim. But by now, you're starting to see a pattern.

      At first, they came for Adult Swim, and I didn't speak out because I don't watch it.
      Then they came for AMC, and I didn't speak out because I don't watch it.
      Then they came for Fox, and I cheered because I hate Fox ...
      Then they came for ABC, and I'm pissed because Agents of Shield! (or something) and there was nothing left to watch.

      BTW, I look at this, and what HBO has done, and I'm starting to see the end of Bundled packages for the likes of DISH and Comcast.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    17. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by HairyNevus · · Score: 1

      I guess the fact that I said I didn't mind the Fox News thing was confusing, but I had already dropped them when they cut Turner networks. I did watch AMC and Adult Swim and was pissed off. Now, I stream/download while I decide if I want DirecTV.

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    18. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the being first in line thing either. I hate the crowds. I also don't like jumping into a TV series that has a plot somewhere in the middle as I usually just end up confused. But watching it later makes things work.

      However there was this time when a newspaper gave the major spoiler for The Sixth Sense, before the movie was even out on DVD and on cable. It was just a throwaway line in an article about something else too. Felt like the author figured everyone of importance already saw the movie so why keep Rosebud a secret. So now I'm not watching the current seasons of Doctor Who and Walking dead and hoping no spoilers leak out (but I know at someone point a major character will be killed off and it'll start trending).

    19. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      But you should mind even if you don't like Fox. That was my point. Unless your point was opposite of what you actually said.

      . I don't mind the current Fox News debacle,

      You don't mind Fox missing? You don't mind the fight? You don't mind Dish doing the same thing to Fox as AMC and Adult Swim because you're off?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    20. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by HairyNevus · · Score: 1

      No, I don't mind Fox missing. I abhor that network, and I'm no longer a Dish subscriber. I simply don't have enough fucks left to give at the end of the day to still care about Dish screwing over its customers based on principles alone.

      You don't mind Dish doing the same thing to Fox as AMC and Adult Swim because you're off?

      Exactly. Dish subscribers should vote with their wallet like I did.

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    21. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To say goodbye to Comcast. I have been caught with the problem of family members who wanted those certain networks.

      Except that for the $20 you only get one stream. Not good when more than person in your family wants to watch something different.

    22. Re:Excuse me while I blow a kiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not entirely kosher I imagine, but if they have a cable subscription that comes with ESPN and you get a Chromecast I expect you could use their cable login to watch ESPN via its own streaming service. If they are the ones watching then in principle that's the intended use-case, although if you were to start using it when then aren't around... well, that might be a little different. :)

  4. Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So $20 for this. THen $$ for HBO GO, then $$ for Hulu Plus, then $$ for Netflix,...

    I can see customers signing up and cancelling after X show ends for the season. Then jumping ship to another streaming service until their preferred Y show ends. Then jumping again.

    I did that with Dish TV's online streaming sports package (which didn't require a contract or cable subscription) for a few months in the summer.

    1. Re:Interesting by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      People are sick of paying their cable company $100/mo for TV.

      So let's pay $20/mo to 3-5 different places, then $50/mo for some form of internet (DSL, Cable, Fibre). Yikes!

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Interesting by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Do you do anything on the Internet besides stare slack-jawed at videos? If so, you'll still need to pay for Internet access, even if you're getting cable or dish TV. So saying "then $50/mo for some form of internet" seems a bit disingenuous.

      As for me and my family, we'd be happy to pay $20/mo to a couple of places that provide programming we actually care to watch, rather than paying $100+/mo to TWC for an array of several hundred channels, of which we watch perhaps five, for an hour or two a day on average. In fact, we're getting ready to do exactly that. GOODBYE, bundled-and-unwanted garbage.

    3. Re:Interesting by zlives · · Score: 2

      and wait for comcast/cable provider to bundle TV for free for their now 200$ per month internet

    4. Re:Interesting by bobbied · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll warn you that TWC is like most providers. They will charge you though the nose for a "dry" internet connection (i.e. when you only have internet service with them). The delta between internet and TV with internet is just about $20 and add phone for another $10 (with per/min charges). Add a few dollars for the cable box and this deal will only be a small gain over an internet connection and TV.

      Verizon FIOS is worse than that. They charge me over $100/month for 25/25 net only. If I added their premier TV service, I'd be at $140 or so with taxes and equipment for 2 TV's and they'd bump my internet speed to 50/50.

      Where I get where this idea is headed and I would really like to just pay for what I need, I'm still money ahead to go with the full service from Verizon..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:Interesting by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do you do anything on the Internet besides stare slack-jawed at videos?

      I mostly post on ./ at work.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:Interesting by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Internet only service through Comcast is still relatively affordable, because you can avoid a lot of the hidden charges that they do with digital cable service.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    7. Re:Interesting by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Not for long.... I'd wager that Comcast will quickly increase their Internet Service prices to compensate for the subscribers they will loose though streaming Cable like services. Just enjoy it while it lasts...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    8. Re:Interesting by dk20 · · Score: 2

      Thankfully Canada introduced UBB (Usage Based Billing) to prevent stuff like this from taking off here.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

      How long until everyone else adopts UBB to thwart the offerings from competitors?
      (Yes, i know there are companies offering unlimited access and i have my service with one of them).

      Looks like even "Rogers" (early UBB adopter) has started offering "unlimited" plans as an add-on.
      Odd, they said they needed to charge for usage as a small number of customers were "hogging" all the bandwidth. Guess they "solved" that and now if you pay $25 you no longer "hog" the available bandwidth?

    9. Re:Interesting by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      I'm betting that with all the crap they're cramming onto the TV side of the bill we'll still come out well ahead. And that's without considering the "make me an offer to keep me from going over to [cough] DSL" negotiations.

      Not that DSL is a serious competitor around here -- it seems to give about 1/5 the bandwidth for about 80% of the price -- but I don't have to let them know that I care about that.

      The last straw for us was the $2.75 sports surcharge. The only sports broadcasts we've ever tuned in are on the local channels, and those only because they ran late and delayed what we were intending to watch, and we were waiting for them to end. Between that, $2.75 a month for broadcast TV (what?), various taxes and so forth -- we're just really tired of paying for stuff we don't use.

      We'll see how the negotiations go. Maybe TW Business Class will start to make more sense. Or maybe it'll be bad enough to justify dropping back to 3Mbps DSL.

    10. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always keep my jaws tense when staring at videos.

    11. Re:Interesting by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Well to be honest, I have a business contract, so I'm insulated from a lot of that nonsense.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    12. Re:Interesting by Bourdain · · Score: 2

      They will charge you though the nose for a "dry" internet connection (i.e. when you only have internet service with them). The delta between internet and TV with internet is just about $20 and add phone for another $10 (with per/min charges). Add a few dollars for the cable box and this deal will only be a small gain over an internet connection and TV.

      Perhaps so, but I have TWC in NY and pay just $34.99/month for a 50/5 connection (granted, I think it is rated lower but if you use a docsis 3.0 modem on an otherwise slower priced connection, you get higher speeds) and just use a few shared accounts for netflix/hbo go/nimble tv/amazon/WatchESPN all on a Roku3 that come to something like $10-15/month

      perhaps doing this is somewhat against the TOS of those services, but last time I checked, TWC bundling prices is against the terms of service of the federal government...

    13. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution for TWC is to buy Internet through a reseller. When they increased my Internet cost from ~$45/month to ~$70/month because I dropped the TV service, I switched to Earthlink and paid ~$42/month. No change in service, same equipment, no cutover, etc. Just a bill from a different source. This was a few years back, but I just spoke to a co-worker who's doing the same thing now, so it should still be an option.

      You are probably in a different Verizon region because costs are significantly lower in Manhattan for the services you're describing - even without the 2 year contract they try to push on people.

    14. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charter: 100 down, 7 up, $40/month.

      Oh, yes, they're the "evil" cable company. They're so "evil" they let me sign right up and had no problem when I declined their sales pitch for triple-play. Granted, that triple-play service is only $30/month for the first year, and internet-only is $40/month. But it's always $40/month, not an intro rate. The bundle goes to (IIRC) $120/month after 6 months, and it's a 2-year contract. So, yeah, they're "evil" if you're dumb enough to sign up for that.

      The best part is that when I signed up last year, it was a 30/5 connection for that same monthly rate. They upgraded everyone in the area to 60/5 then to 100/7 within the last 6 months or so, and the rates stayed the same.

      Meanwhile, their only real competition in the area (STL) is AT&T, with their U-verse FTTN (Fiber to the Nowhere-near-you-that's-for-sure). I used to have the 12/3 tier, and it cost me half again as much as Charter does for 100/7.

      Meanwhile, I'd pay a few bucks to get Blues games (all of them, not just home games or just away games) over the internet, live (not delayed). Preferably over some kind of account-authenticated RTP stream, not via some half-baked Flash player or a stupid "app" on a locked down platform.

    15. Re:Interesting by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Ha, and I thought my $70 satellite was getting too expensive... We really do need some type of way to get just the channels we want instead of a bundle that has 1 thing we want and 12 things we'll never touch. Yes there is ala-carte of buying just one episode or one season, but those are overpriced in my view especially for shows that originally broadcast for free.

    16. Re: Interesting by ff1324 · · Score: 1

      I wonder at what price point NHL and MLB would sell anywhere, any device access with no blackouts. Or even lock it to a single team.

      All I would need besides OTA TV is my Blues and my Cardinals.

    17. Re:Interesting by Specter · · Score: 1

      Only if you accept their terms without negotiating. We have TWC for Internet only and pay a rate similar to what we paid when we were getting the bundled discount. You can get it but you have to ask for it.

    18. Re:Interesting by Kasar · · Score: 2

      On the positive side, Comcast doubled speeds to many customers in response to growing fiber coverage in the Portland market. Competition might keep them a bit in line, they can't match gigabit offerings over fiber.

      --
      vi? Who's that?
    19. Re:Interesting by punkr0x · · Score: 1

      I look at the package deals this way: I would rather have the TV service Netflix provides over anything the cable companies currently provide, at any price. Time Warner could change their TV service to $10 a month, with a DVR, Netflix still beats it (for my purposes, yours may vary). They're not even offering a service that is relevant any more, so it doesn't matter what they charge to bundle it. They still have a monopoly on speedy internet in my area, so I am forced to pay them for that service, because it's a service I do want.

    20. Re:Interesting by omnichad · · Score: 1

      rather than paying $100+/mo to TWC for an array of several hundred channels

      The Weather Channel has hundreds of channels now? /badjoke

    21. Re: Interesting by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If they'd stop selling exclusive broadcast rights (at least by country), you'd have a chance of that. And since the upcoming events for the foreseeable future have already been sold, you'd have to wait a while even if they did strike a deal.

    22. Re:Interesting by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Oh, I've asked... Problem was I couldn't switch because of the logistics of moving my wife off of their E-mail service so I really couldn't afford to get my bluff called when I threatened to cancel my service. You have to be ready to really cancel before they will come off the "you pay the advertised rate" position.

      I am transitioning her to a non-ISP specific E-mail address right now, so once we have her and her friends used to the new address I can call and *really* be ready to cancel the service should they call my bluff. I'm figuring to be ready by the end of the month....

      At that point, I figure I will do exactly what you and other suggest and use both providers ads and offers to work the best deal possible.

      It's a shame though that shopping for services now resembles shopping for a used car, where the customers never really know what the bottom line really is and to find out you have to be willing to threaten to go elsewhere if they don't drop their price... As I told the last Verizon CSR, I don't like the way you do business because it seems stupid and borderline unethical, but it is what it is.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    23. Re:Interesting by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      TW business around here was Brighthouse afew years ago. I have to say when I used to handle business connections they were a pleasure to deal with. I highly recommend a business class connection from them.


      Comcast was a nightmare, we would end up with some services on the business side and some on a local provider side (whatever that means) even though they were all ordered at the same time. It was hell to call and get transferred around. They also liked to reset our routers periodically even though they were strictly pass-through. We'd lose our static IP's and other nonsense.

      This was all about 8 years ago, so maybe it's better now, but I'd be surprised.
      At&t doesn't seem to differentiate between their business and consumer packages in any meaningful way. They do seem to have improved their customer service in the past 2 to 3 years it got significantly better. The installers seemed more responsive and when you called in it seemed like they could actually help you.

    24. Re:Interesting by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine who the poor bastards are that pay for Hulu. Hmmm... Let me pay you the same as netflix and watch ads too, for mostly the same content, maybe a bit earlier. Sounds like a winner.

    25. Re: Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's crazy talk. Yes there are ads but the fact I'm watching current seasons of network tv when I want without a cable or a antenna makes it worthwile.
      I'm glad your special situation applies to everyone.

    26. Re:Interesting by michrech · · Score: 1

      The solution for TWC is to buy Internet through a reseller. When they increased my Internet cost from ~$45/month to ~$70/month because I dropped the TV service, I switched to Earthlink and paid ~$42/month. No change in service, same equipment, no cutover, etc. Just a bill from a different source. This was a few years back, but I just spoke to a co-worker who's doing the same thing now, so it should still be an option.

      You are probably in a different Verizon region because costs are significantly lower in Manhattan for the services you're describing - even without the 2 year contract they try to push on people.

      That option isn't available everywhere. For example, in my neck of the woods, they can offer me 56k dialup @ $21.95 a month(!!!), or $12.50 monthly if I pay a full year in advance, or "up to 5.0Mbps" satellite at $60 a month (or higher, depending on the plan)...

      --
      bork bork bork!
    27. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I had 15meg service for a year at $20, now it's $35; I'm ok with that.

    28. Re:Interesting by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      Cox charges $10 extra for Internet-only service. It was still a big win to drop TV. With a DVR in the living room, we were paying about $160 per month (and that was without HBO, Showtime, etc.). I'm now paying just $63 per month for (IIRC) 50 Mbps down/5 Mbps up (or is it 50/10?). For what little TV I watch, there's a Netflix Blu-ray subscription, Usenet, and Bittorrent.

      (Even at this level, local TV is still available in HD and maybe 40-50 cable channels are available in analog SD. Last time I used that was to tune in Fox News on election night. Most of the time, I can't be bothered to deal with live TV.)

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  5. Maybe you didn't read it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dish is already a provider. And pays the partner networks when online streaming like they do for satellite broadcast. They are only streaming networks that have agreed to the arrangement, which explains the limited selection.

    Now what is likely to happen, is that cable companies (Comcast & Time Warner) will fight it. Because Dish customers are likely to be streaming over internet-only cable services in some regions where DSL is not practical. (hell, when is DSL ever practical?)

    1. Re:Maybe you didn't read it? by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      (hell, when is DSL ever practical?)

      I'm streaming over VDSL. Not as fast as comcast but the advantage is that is not comcast.

    2. Re:Maybe you didn't read it? by jordanjay29 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I had mod points, I'd mod you up. NotComcast is the primary reason I pay for DSL.

    3. Re: Maybe you didn't read it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In my area, NotComcast entrails Centurylink. So, the choice is basically between a shit burger and a diarrhea sandwich.

    4. Re:Maybe you didn't read it? by adolf · · Score: 0

      I don't have Comcast as an option, but I can upgrade my own VDSL to 75Mbps if I decide that I need to do so.

    5. Re: Maybe you didn't read it? by i+work+on+computers · · Score: 1

      In my area, NotComcast entrails Centurylink. So, the choice is basically between a shit burger and a diarrhea sandwich.

      I've been a very happy CenturyLink customer for 5 years. Their customer service drives me crazy, but the actual DSL service is superb. I don't remember the last time I had an outage or low connection speed. 20 mbps for $30.

    6. Re:Maybe you didn't read it? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I get better performance from DSL, although it's Uverse's fibre hybrid now. Comcast was quick for downloads up to around 300mb, then the drop off was so bad that a 1GB iso would take days. I could do that in a half hour on my dsl.

      My big compliant is upstream speeds are not offered above 1.5. At least it's not Comcast.

    7. Re: Maybe you didn't read it? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Ditto here. Having once lived in an area where CenturyStink was your only option (Northern Oregon Coast), paying $70/mo. for often-down 3mbps DSL was bad... real bad. When they bought Qwest and borked their billing, it got worse.

      Charter arrived in my neighborhood just in time for me to dump CenturyLink once and for all.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re:Maybe you didn't read it? by rgbscan · · Score: 1

      I've been getting rock solid 60down/20up VDSL from Qwest (err CenturyLink) for several years for $47/month. Haven't had an outage or issue yet - knock on wood. Pretty Happy.

  6. And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by toonces33 · · Score: 2

    I for one resent paying for very expensive programming that I never watch.

    1. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I understand your desire for a la carte programming, but live sports is what stops a *lot* of people from cutting the cord and just going to Hulu, Netflix, Prime, or SomeOtherService.

      Getting ESPN is a Big Hairy Deal for cord cutters, and it's the title of the article. Your only other option was to hope that your cable provider let you tune into ESPNU or similar from your IP range...or to pirate your college sports.

      You can think of this as ESPN is $20 a la carte, and includes some free channels with it :)

    2. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by TheAngryMob · · Score: 2

      It would probably be about $10/month. ESPN is the most expensive channel to license for cable providers.

      --

      Don't just game, Dungeoneer
    3. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Al-a-cart is currently illegal due to the structuring content providers talked the FCC into years ago. It's a very complicated topic but basically the production people like Viacom have pushed the line so far that most TV is complete and utter garbage today and is why your cable bill can exceed $200/month easily. It's so far beyond reasonable you now have cable and satalite providers actually dropping entire networks. Dish, for example currently doesn't have any of Fox and is just displaying a banner "Fox removed this channel" in the channels place.

      Now you have services like this... called "Over the top" which means ESPN is forcing Dish to broadcast its old channels in the old tiered system... and not allowing them to show ESPN (For $7/month or whatever) without also including ESPN Classic at the very same price in the same tier. So, in effect they just doubled the price of ESPN because no-one watches classic at all. But in "Over the top" programming they claim that "The internet" doesn't count as far as the FCC is concerned (Basically because they know they are losing people in vast swaths to online content) So they do allow Al-a-cart programming in steaming services like this.

      This is why recently the FCC said they were likely to start regulating "Over the top" programming in the same way they regulate Cable TV. By doing so they will force the content providers hand, and they'll have to chose. Keep making insane 40% profit margins but die a slow death as steaming takes over... or finally give up and allow people to only pay for what they want.

    4. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      How much without ESPN? How much with BBC America? That is, BBC America without 30 minutes of commercials in a 60 minute program? Because I am paying for it.

      I really just want A La Carte. Tell me what each "channel" costs and let me pick the ones I want. I might even end up paying more than $20. And I won't pay for my local channels, I can get those OTA for free already; and better quality in most cases than what cable or satellite will deliver to boot.

    5. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by borcharc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I will sign up for any option that lets me not pay for sports. fuck the sports tax.

    6. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a huge announcement to me because the food network is almost the only reason I have cable. That and the very limited football I get to see because I don't have ESPN. I have a $30 no contract economy tv from cox communications. If for $20 I can get the food network AND ESPN (that means all the football games, right?, I'm stoked.

    7. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      define "very expensive"? if $20 is "very expensive" to you then what is the $9 netflix charges? "medium expensive?"

      Seriously - think of all the stuff you don't watch on netflix, or hulu. "very expensive" is all relative. If you're willing to pay $9 a month for something you don't watch 80%+ of, then you're paying for "medium expensive" programming that you'll never watch.

      66 cents a day for stuff for this may be worth it. twice as much as netflix or hulu, but if there are channels you like, likely more than twice the stuff you like, thus, the cost ends up being the same.

    8. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I would imagine ESPN is charging Dish at LEAST $20/mo per subscriber, and Dish is willing to eat that as a cost of being first out of the gate for internet ESPN cord cutter subscribers. The rest is free, really.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    9. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Al-a-cart is currently illegal due to the structuring content providers talked the FCC into years ago.

      A la carte is now and always has been legal. The cable providers don't offer it because they sign contracts with the content owners which make it unprofitable (they can provide channels a la carte, but if someone picks Disney Kids, the cable company must pay Disney for ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN West, ESPN 7, etc. But there's nothing legally or contractually preventing the cable company from selling Disney Kids a la carte. It's a financial model problem, not a legal or contractual one.

    10. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      If Cox's economy gets you CBS/NBC/FOX/ABC (and, I'm pretty sure it does), then yes, ESPN pretty much seals the deal.

    11. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1. First, ESPN is only important during certain parts of the year; this varies by what sport you're interested in. For me, college football season is mid August to mid January, and I only watch about a dozen games on ESPN (includes bowl games); most of the games I watch are carried on the other networks.

      2. We're already paying for the games by watching the damn advertisements, so why should we have to pay for ESPN? Remove the ads and put on a radio announcer instead of the "color commentary" announcers and I'll gladly pay $5/game (= about $60/year to ESPN = $5/mo).

      radio announcer: "3rd down and 4 from their own 26 yard line with 2:07 on the clock. [name of team] is down by three. [name of QB] takes the snap, rolls right, fires to a wide open receiver at the 35 yard line. he makes the defender miss, and it's off to the races. one man to beat. 50... 40... 30... 20... 10... 5... touchdown [name of team]; they now lead by 3 and will try for the extra point after the review."

      color commentary announcer calling the same play: "wow. did you see that hit when he released the ball? [name of db] almost got the sack. That reminds me of the time when ... [tells story while failing to mention that the receiver caught the ball and is about to score a TD]... TOUCHDOWN [doesn't say who scored, or what the score is because they're showing fancy graphics on screen; then they go to commercial break for review]".

    12. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by rahvin112 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Arguing that the contract requires they purchase unrelated channels to get a single channel is not contract related is a bunch of horseshit. It IS a contractual problem, because the content providers refuse to sell channels outside bundles which essentially forces bundling on the provider.

      Personally I believe this is a regulatory action the government should take, they should make it illegal to force bundle channels to providers and require that they sell channels to all providers on equal terms and without bias. There should be a cost to that government granted monopoly and one of them should be that they can't discriminate against delivery methods or require the purchase of entire channel catalogs to get a single channel. We've given these companies the ability to destroy competing delivery services which has resulted in monopoly collusion between content creators and distributors. This monopoly should be broken, and laws should be passed to prevent it from ever happening again.

      I personally don't believe distribution companies (ie cable & sat companies, netflix, etc) should be able to own content and that allowing that to happen has resulted in a significant portion of the last decades price increases for content.

    13. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It's a commercial problem, not a contractual one. They are allowed to sell them one at a time, by the contract. Thus, the contract doesn't prevent the practice. But the commercial terms (a separate issue, though included in the contract) make it uneconomical to do it.

      Also, separate is the rumour (or threats) that if a cable company were to successfully a la carte channels, the content owners would refuse to sell them content on the next contract renewal. Though in practice, that's never been tested.

    14. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      This is a huge announcement to me because the food network is almost the only reason I have cable.

      Can't you watch full episodes at foodnetwork.com these days?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    15. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I sort of want something in the middle. A sort of Chinese restaurant menu choice. 3 channels from column A, 3 from column B, option to substitute steamed rice for fried rice.

      Problem is that services today that give you just one episode of a show you may have missed are too expensive, and the price for a "season" of a show are also too expensive. Especially if the show was originally broadcast over the air. Plus there must be a DVR option of some sort if the shows are going to vanish after a short period of time; the advantage of streaming is that I can watch it when I want so if I can't have that then I need storage.

      Ie, say I want Doctor Who, Walking Dead, Big Bang Theory, and Phineus and Ferb, and each of those requires a separate subscription of $10-20, then I end up paying more than what I did when I was a satellite subscriber. But if I got them all for $20-30 and they were all current episodes plus past episodes, or maybe just the last two years, then that's a deal. Bonus if I could DVR them so I can watch even when the internet is flaky or congested.

    16. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I have MORE with Netflix now than I had with satellite. However it is not the same content as with cable. I have to delay some shows for a year and give up another favorite show, but in return I've gotten lots of stuff that is completely new to me that I didn't see when it was new (bing watching Breaking Bad or Dollhouse), lots of older programs as well (all of the real Mission Impossible), lots of movies, etc. And that's without their DVD service that I could use if I wanted to. Plus it's all high definition even programs originally filmed in the 60s shows up higher definition than they ever got when broadcast.

      So ya, the $8 I pay for Netflix is the best bargain I ever got with TV. My satellite service was reasonable, a lot cheaper than cable providers even with the tivo fee, and I really liked that service, but over time I felt $70 was just too much money with the declining number of shows I watched regularly. My original plan was to also sub to Hulu but that sort of fell through.

      It's a trade off. With cable/satellite you get a few shows you like and tons of shows you will never watch and lots of shows you just wait patiently to show up sometime. With netflix you also get a few shows you like with tons of shows you'll never watch and lots of shows you just wait patiently to show up sometime. It's just that the names of the shows in each category change.

    17. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      If you aren't terribly impatient, Netflix can displace a large number of channels including some that are in this new Dish bundle. The only thing this bundle gets you is the new stuff that you can already get PPV. It might even be cheaper as PPV.

      Is what's in that bundle worth $20 per month? Is it worth $20 per month to some randomly selected user?

      Very uncertain...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    18. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by stalky14 · · Score: 1

      If you're stuck on Comcast, look into "Digital Economy". It's many of these channels, plus locals, but no sports.
      Dish also offered something similar over satellite called "Welcome Pack".

      Both of these are "secret menu" options that you have to call and specifically ask for.

    19. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by adolf · · Score: 1

      I don't know what "a commercial problem" is. Is it about advertising? Because I've never encountered "a commercial problem," as far as I know.

    20. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by houghi · · Score: 1

      I just don't have TV anymore. I am not interested in sports. The rest of the programming is also not very interesting and although I received several channels from several countries, they all showed the same things. Just with different people.
      10 variations of CSI (in several languages). Talent shows where the names are different. Reality TV where the only interesting thing is how they edited to make an apple look interesting.

      As an added bonus, when I talk with friends, they know I don't watch TV, so we talk about things that are interesting for them AND for me. It goes further then just 'have you seen X yesterday?.

      OK, this is not ideal if you have no idea what to do with your time.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    21. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by i+work+on+computers · · Score: 1

      I already pay for options that lets me not pay for sports: Netflix, free Hulu, and broadcast TV. I've been wanting to pay for sports (ESPN and TNT) for years, but unwilling to pay $50 for it along with a bunch of channels I don't want.

      What's unique about Sling TV is that it is the first option for legally streaming sports programming without a traditional cable/satellite subscription. And since Sling TV doesn't require a long-term contract, I can subscribe just for the months that I want to watch these channels. For me, that is December - June for NBA and NCAA basketball, and September for baseball playoffs. That's 8 months at $20/month for $160/year. I'd pay more than that for the 4 months of the year that I don't way pay-TV service.

    22. Re: And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anytime I see ESPN, sportscenter is on. I've never actually seen a sporting event on it. Do they still show sports, or did they go the way of MTV?

    23. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      And ESPN's content on the service is probably just full episodes of produced programming, not live coverage of sports.

    24. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      which means ESPN is forcing Dish to broadcast its old channels in the old tiered system... and not allowing them to show ESPN (For $7/month or whatever) without also including ESPN Classic at the very same price in the same tier

      And you forgot that non-sports watchers have to have both channels just to get access to the Disney Channel.

    25. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      say I want Doctor Who, Walking Dead, Big Bang Theory, and Phineus and Ferb, and each of those requires a separate subscription of $10-20, then I end up paying more than what I did when I was a satellite subscriber.

      I think iTunes already does this for many shows. You can buy a season bundle (works out to over $2/episode) and get access to the episodes as they air.

    26. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You know what's really sick? Your paying a similar add-on to your ISP for access to ESPN's website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

    27. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Well, I hope you have a business class ISP. Otherwise you are probably paying for ESPN3.

    28. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by ranton · · Score: 2

      2. We're already paying for the games by watching the damn advertisements, so why should we have to pay for ESPN? Remove the ads and put on a radio announcer instead of the "color commentary" announcers and I'll gladly pay $5/game (= about $60/year to ESPN = $5/mo).

      Just because you are paying something by watching advertisements, does not mean you are paying for it in full. Think of it more like the advertising is subsidizing part of your cable bill, not paying it in full.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    29. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      A commercial problem is a business case problem. It's finances that prevent it from being done, not an explicit ban in the contract or the law. The cable companies expect it to be unprofitable, so they don't try. There is no contract clause or legal regulation that prevents it. Commercial: related to commerce.

    30. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Actually, the problem is probably because of Government Regulation in the first place. IF you were to remove the Last Mile problem, the commercial viability would force content providers to offer what consumers want, at a price that is competitive with other content providers.

      If a municipality built out a nice Last Mile infrastructure that allowed competition from providers the a la carte model would not only be feasible, but likely.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    31. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I think $2 an episode is too much, but handy if you are on vacation and miss an episode. Plus it's iTunes which is a drawback.

    32. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      At least content providers are willing to offer it and take my money. Too much for me, too. But if you don't watch too many new shows and have Netflix also it could be cheaper than cable TV.

    33. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      True. I had hoped that Hulu would provide both the shows I wanted but it is only providing one (probably some licensing dispute). So I'll just hold off a year until the shows are on Netflix instead.

      I want to see what the scene is like in another decade when streaming is more mainstream. Everything's changing rapidly.

    34. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I do know that if there isn't a commercial-laden broadcast model, then there is nothing to subsidize me enjoying multiple full seasons of a show all at once. Too big of a risk to produce so much. This either means more junk content is on the way or it means a more direct relationship will be forged between content producers and viewers.

      For example, paying 20th Century Fox television for a subscription to Firefly. Or paying Mutant Enemy Productions and their financial backers directly. Kickstarter is the right idea, but this world takes big seed money to produce even a pilot.

    35. Re:And how much WITHOUT ESPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Follow the money. Considering commercials are highly localized, I think that the commercials go toward the distributors wallets. After all, why should Disney give a crap about some local (for me) event that's over 1000 miles away from any of their property?

      I think it is nothing more than ego and wallet padding for the content owners. They offer 10 channels "for the price of 6" to a distributor for some lump (or monthly) payment over the course of the contract. The content owners don't want to hear that only 0.001% of the population gives a rats ass about golf channel 7, they would rather 5% of the population pay some portion of it anyway.

      If a la carte catches on, I can all but guarantee there will be a mass pruning of the bullshit only a handful of people care about, thereby increasing the signal to noise ratio of quality stuff. Then of course, there's companies like Fox, that give good shows a handful of episodes that get a strong following, but because it isn't Honey Boo Boo they give it the axe. Firefly, Greg the bunny, Malcom in the Middle, Futurama....

  7. Delivery medium by hierophanta · · Score: 1

    What is so interesting about this netflix, hulu, and the like is that the customer is no longer paying for the delivery of the goods :: just the goods themselves. This is hugely beneficial to the the content provider and gives customers who are voting with their dollars more power: if comcast throttles netflix (like verizon did, or whoever did against twitch (i forget who that was) we are going to hear about those nefarious business practices pretty quickly. I, for one, welcome our new assembly line TV overloards.

    1. Re:Delivery medium by Dan+East · · Score: 2

      What is so interesting about this netflix, hulu, and the like is that the customer is no longer paying for the delivery of the goods :: just the goods themselves.

      What do you mean? Netflix and Hulu give away free broadband ISP connectivity to their customers? And Netflix and Hulu have free massive pipelines and distributed hosting to the internet? Man, that's pretty cool. Just because Netflix doesn't directly own the wires between the content and your house like ye olde cable companies doesn't mean that the customer is not paying for the delivery of the goods.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Delivery medium by geekoid · · Score: 2

      "..customer is no longer paying for the delivery of the goods.."
      yes we are. We pay for them to have an internet service, a website, and everything else you need to deliver the goods.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Delivery medium by unrtst · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he meant that the customer isn't paying one lump sum to one company for both the delivery of goods and for the goods themselves.

      One of the arguments that often comes up over cable prices is that they have to pay to put all the cables in place and maintain them. For satellite, they had to pay boatloads to put a satellite in orbit. This makes somewhat of a separation between the two.

      I'm pretty confused about why Dish would be the one doing this though. Adding dish subscribers doesn't cost them anything really (past licensing fees)... why not just lower the cost of that? I know its quite different but, if anything, the steaming service is more flexible and will cost them more for the delivery. The licensing rules/laws/agreements must be super fucked up.

    4. Re:Delivery medium by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he meant that the customer isn't paying one lump sum to one company for both the delivery of goods and for the goods themselves.

      One of the arguments that often comes up over cable prices is that they have to pay to put all the cables in place and maintain them. For satellite, they had to pay boatloads to put a satellite in orbit. This makes somewhat of a separation between the two.

      I'm pretty confused about why Dish would be the one doing this though. Adding dish subscribers doesn't cost them anything really (past licensing fees)... why not just lower the cost of that? I know its quite different but, if anything, the steaming service is more flexible and will cost them more for the delivery. The licensing rules/laws/agreements must be super fucked up.

      Building and launching a satellite is a billion-dollar capital cost, that has to be amortized over the life of the satellite. For the same money over the next few years, they can gradually roll out a streaming service without having to put up all that capital in one chunk. Plus, if they stop using satellites, they can knock out the people pirating their signal.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Delivery medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like apk knocked you out BarbaraHudson http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ?

    6. Re:Delivery medium by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If you're going for off-topic....
      slashdot.org 127.0.0.1
      www.slashdot.org 127.0.0.1

    7. Re:Delivery medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other way around on the ip address and hostname stupid!

    8. Re:Delivery medium by unrtst · · Score: 1

      ...

      I'm pretty confused about why Dish would be the one doing this though. Adding dish subscribers doesn't cost them anything really (past licensing fees)... why not just lower the cost of that? I know its quite different but, if anything, the steaming service is more flexible and will cost them more for the delivery. The licensing rules/laws/agreements must be super fucked up.

      Building and launching a satellite is a billion-dollar capital cost, that has to be amortized over the life of the satellite. For the same money over the next few years, they can gradually roll out a streaming service without having to put up all that capital in one chunk. Plus, if they stop using satellites, they can knock out the people pirating their signal.

      Your argument works against itself. They already launched the satellites. That "billiion-dollar capital cost" is already sunk. There is no "for the same money". The "for the same money" would only be relevant if we were talking about some other company that hadn't launched all those satellites and already has a large number fo people paying lots per month for it. Any additional money they can squeeze out of it by getting new disk subscribers is, essentially, free money.

      The only possible reason they have to do this is because "on the internet" is a loophole through their licensing agreements, which lets them make such a small bundle (which, unfortunately, is /still/ a stupid bundle).

    9. Re:Delivery medium by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The satellites have a fixed life. Once they run out of propellant, they're pretty much useless. On top of that, many (or even all) their satellites can be knocked out - permanently - in one day with a really good solar storm.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:Delivery medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why're ya avoiding this Barb http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ? You troll apk http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... n' you can't back it up? Yes.

  8. Paid in Bitcoin only! by ASDFnz · · Score: 1

    I wholeheartedly approve of it.

  9. I dunno. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But this article is boring. Can't we argue about Science vs Religion some more?

  10. Wake me up.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I can pick and choose all of my channels a la carte. If there is one thing I can't stand its the ESPN tax.

  11. Too good to be true? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there isn't some catch (intro offer, long term contract, etc) and if they include some of the Discover/TLC/etc networks I'll be getting it. Netfix/Hulu/Amazon are nice but sometimes Its nice to just flip on a channel and let it run.

    1. Re:Too good to be true? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once the contract ends they screw over the customer with added fees, rate increases.
      Actually, the customer is screwed from day one when all those hundreds of channels for cheap turn out to be duplicates, junk programs, foreign (most with no sub titles).
      Had Dish, they totally suck !.
      Never again !

  12. Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you Jebus!

    I can't wait to call Comcast.

    1. Re:Finally by bobbied · · Score: 2

      I can't wait to call Comcast.

      Careful... You will still need internet to stream this and unless you live in googleland where fiber abounds and fast internet connections are cheep (where is that exactly?) you will still need to pay Comcast for an internet connection. Get ready to be taken advantage of. Buying just internet service can get expensive beyond what you now see on your Comcast bill for that "package" deal you get on internet. Expect them to bump that up if you don't buy TV from them.

      For me, the differential between my single 25/25 internet connection and a 50/50 connection with all the non-premium HD TV channels is about $40/month for 2 TVs. Take a look at Verizon's "pick your own package" prices online to see what I mean. What they do with their pricing isn't very intuitive. For example, I've been a Verizon customer for nearly 10 years, yet the "New customer" advertised price is almost 1/3rd cheaper than they will give me because I'm an existing customer. I've never missed paying the bill and have rarely called them to support my internet connection, but they'd rather get a new customer than keep me, even when I asked them to just match the new customer deal for me.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Finally by adolf · · Score: 1

      I've never missed paying the bill and have rarely called them to support my internet connection, but they'd rather get a new customer than keep me, even when I asked them to just match the new customer deal for me.

      If that's the case you're simply doing it wrong.

      Here is how you do it right: Call them up. Tell them that you want to cancel. When they ask why, tell them that $competitor is offering you a better deal.

      They will balk and scriptedly explain that $competitor's service is inferior.

      Ignore this and tell them that price is your primary motivation right now.

      [...]

      They've got a script, and you aren't the first customer to play through it. So use your own script, and stick to it. If/when you make it all the way to the Customer Retention department, they'll give you whatever you want to keep you around, and if all you want is a steep discount for a year they'll be happy to provide that.

      And if they're not happy to provide that, tell them (again) cancel it. Rinse and repeat until you've got what you want.

      And don't worry: It's much harder than you think to get a Customer Retention rep to turn off your service.

      (In my experience this works for any value of $provider. Way back in the dial-up days I had free nationwide Internet for most of a year: Every time I called $provider to "cancel," they offered me another month or three for free, which I found to be fairly profitable based on my usual hourly wage at that time.)

  13. ESPN by Maltheus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ESPN is the reason I cancelled Dish in the first place. It's the most costly channel in their lineup and I got sick of subsizing it. Had they chosen better, cheaper channels, I would have considered it.

    1. Re:ESPN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ESPN is the most costly channel in everybody's lineup.

      Yeah, sucks, but seeing as it's part of the Disney umbrella (which also includes ABC, etc) cable and satellite companies are pretty much forced to carry it if they want any of the other Disney-owned networks.

    2. Re:ESPN by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      In which we are once again reminded how much the Slashdot demographic differs from the rest of the populace.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:ESPN by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      If I were genuinely interested in a sport, I would want something dedicated to that sport/league and not run through the filter of some other middle man. "but sports" is a poor reason to put up with ESPN. It's time that this stuff got decoupled from monopolistic middle men.

      Besides. A lot of "event sports" is shown on OTA broadcast anyways.

      Again, the value of cable for "but sports" goes way beyond putting up with ESPN as a monopolistic middle man. Unfettered on demand streaming has even more potential for sports than it does other content because much of it is regional and currently subject to blackouts.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  14. Depends by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

    It is only so good as I can cancel at anytime. Else, it is the same Dish that I would get at the same price I would pay for actually having it via satellite (with a 2 year contract).

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Depends by grahamsaa · · Score: 2

      TFA clearly states that there will be no contract and service will be offered on a month to month basis.

      --
      Facts have a liberal bias.
  15. commercials = FAIL by markdavis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Total FAIL. It is streaming only, no DVR. That means you will happily be forced to watch commercials. I wouldn't even take the service if it were free.

    1. Re:commercials = FAIL by markdavis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh, they are all already out of business because of DVR's on cable and satellite services? I think not. The cable and satellite companies DO pay for access to the channels (and quite a bit, at that). And even with ability to fast forward through commercials, many people (myself included) still see things and stop and play interesting/relevant commercials.

      I am neither clueless nor cheap. I know exactly how this stuff works and I will not pay any price for content which forces commercial viewing. And if that means I have to pay more for access to the channels... fine. So how is that clueless or cheap?

      I am certainly not alone in this feeling. The genie is out of the bag, and many of us will never go back. Next step- I want to pay for only the channels I want/watch. I am tired of subsidizing extremely expensive and totally uninteresting sports channels and other such nonsense.

    2. Re:commercials = FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Same thing I thought of and the response that commercials pay for the content and the $20 / month goes to the service. Good luck to them. Post another headline when there's a commercial free option and maybe I'll bite. I'm okay waiting 6 months or even 6 years to catch up on the show/movie in a more convenient package. I'm so many years behind I don't think I'll ever catch up with everything available on Netflix and I can always go back to old Star Trek episodes or Family Guy if I'm bored...

      I'm glad to see someone experimenting in the space. I know a lot of people eager to cable cut but things like ESPN or live news or something keeps them from going. I've never had cable/sat and only just got my first TV and netflix a year ago...

      Commercials = Nope

    3. Re:commercials = FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And by being streaming only, places like Seattle are barred from using this service. With my 160 kbps DSL, there's no way this will work. Most of my friends here are still on dial-up or ISDN so it won't work for them either. I don't mind waiting a few days to download, for example, a football game, but by being streaming only, the bar is set a very high.

    4. Re:commercials = FAIL by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The amount that goes to service and the amount that goes to the actual content provider are not divided so neatly into that fee structure. Advertising most definitely does not cover $100/month of the cost for the majority of people. The cost to the content provider comes out of part of that $20, and possibly some comes from the commercials. The biggest reason for commercials is as it always has been with pay TV: it's an easy way to get some extra revenue.

      When cable TV was new part of the rationale given by marketing and word of mouth is that you don't have to put up with commercials. And indeed in the early days that was true, you only got commercials for those programs that were rebroadcast (not counting interstitial promotions for their own upcoming shows and the like). Ie, MTV was music videos all day and all night with the occasional commentary and news from "VJs". Even up until recently there were channels still like this, such as IFC or AMC not interrupting movies with ads. However it was not long until cable companies realized they could double dip and get subscription fees plus advertisement dollars, with only "premium" channels having fewer ads.

    5. Re:commercials = FAIL by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      This happens all the time, it's just not as visible as to the reasons. Highly rated shows with loyal fan bases find out their favorite show is gone mid-season and replaced with a reality show. The media industry is not the sort of devil you need to stay loyal to because it's most definitely not loyal to you.

      Times change. The Home Shopping Network may have to figure out a new way to make money. It is NOT our job as consumers to subsidize companies like they were charities, corporations need to learn to treat the customers like real people. You certainly don't go to the grocery store and are forced to purchase Cheez-Whiz with every purchase of carrots, the customers wouldn't put up it. Maybe it's sad that my local grocery store doesn't carry the brand of food I want but that's ok. So why do we have to put up with it with an entertainment service? The reason is that with grocery stores we have competition and with cable companies we have had to settle with monopolies for a long time. The times changed and now the brick walls of the monopolies are crumbling.

      If they can't figure out how to make money in a competitive environment then that's too bad, maybe I'll feel sorry for them but I will not give them my charity dollars!

    6. Re:commercials = FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enough people purchasing that Cheez-Whiz may keep the cost of carrots low. Ever consider that the cost of carrots would rise if they stopped selling Cheez-Whiz?

      Sure, you may not be buying the Cheez-Whiz, but if a lot of people do, the store may be able to keep produce prices cheap enough. Imagine how expensive it would be if the store was produce-only, and that most people didn't want to buy said produce.

      Maybe I'm wrong.

    7. Re:commercials = FAIL by omnichad · · Score: 1

      AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

      But not as it always will be. Why do you think so many are cutting the cord and moving to Netflix? Waiting a couple years to binge watch an entire show is actually more enjoyable than dragging out a show across 5 years anyway.

    8. Re:commercials = FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to Hulu. I'm not sure why I have to sit through commercials for $8/mo

  16. Won't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    until they post a full channel list.

    And for me, it won't matter if DIscovery, History, SyFy, and a few other channels are included.

  17. Without digital restrictions yes- with no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem I have with all these streaming services is they don't respect the privacy and security interests customers. I shouldn't have to hand over the control of my devices in order to be able to subscribe. Unfortunately most people don't realize that they are literally being spyed on, manipulated, and taken advantage of. These companies are on using these proprietary programs to monitor the content your watching, web sites your visiting, and sometimes even blocking them.

    Many companies are literally installing backdoors and conducting censorship en mass blocking sites they don't like, restricting downloads of third party content, inserting or replacing content with malicious advertisements, and more. Some are even seizing data, holding it hostage, and extorting money out of users. It's not always as obvious its going on either- but ultimately peoples bank accounts are being drained and arrests are even being made of users who didn't know that storing there data on third party servers renders it open to government scrutiny.

  18. Can I ger a package by geekoid · · Score: 1

    without ESPN? Please? It's really for people who like to here other people spout shit they tried really hard to fill time with. It's actual information can be smmed up in a website. I don't know why I need to subsidize a profit making network.

    Of course, I have no idea why people tune in to here athletes talk.

    Hey, football fans! This is what the QB is going to say:
    If it was a hard game or loss, he will take the blame.
    If it is a win, he will praise the line.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Can I ger a package by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Yeah. You can get Netflix and Hulu Plus for $16 / month. You can even add CBS for a few dollars more. Tons to watch. No ESPN (OK, they do have about 1,000 30 for 30 episodes, but some of those are really good even if you're not into sports that much.)

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:Can I ger a package by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      without ESPN?

      Yes. Hulu.

    3. Re:Can I ger a package by toonces33 · · Score: 1

      Every time I look at things like Hulu I find virtually none of the programs that I typically like to watch. News? Nada. Have to stream it elsewhere if I can find it. Various Discovery/Science/History channels? Nothing that I want to watch. Documentaries? Minimal, and nothing of interest. Shows like Stewart/Colbert? Nope - have to go directly to comedycentral to get that.

      Here is what I don't watch. Movies, sitcoms, reality TV, cop/csi or any other drama. Don't watch sports, don't watch home shopping, don't want/watch things like HBO.

    4. Re:Can I ger a package by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      Yup. That's how it works. You have to get them from the channel directly. I didn't check the terms, but Mythbusters is listed on the Discovery channel as being there. And I stream my local news from the local channel. But for the question "can I get it without ESPN" the answer is "yes", but you don't like those options. So you should pay for ESPN and just not watch it.

    5. Re:Can I ger a package by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The only way to get a package without ESPN is to also be without Disney Channel and your local ABC affiliate. Which is also fine for a lot of people. But the content provider has chosen to force all or nothing bundling for licensing fees.

  19. Not Illegal by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the FCC:
    Are cable systems required to offer "a la carte" and pay-per-view channels?

    No, but they may choose to offer channels on a stand-alone basis ("a la carte") or as a pay-per-view channel. Commission rules also prohibit cable systems from requiring customers to subscribe to any tiers beyond the basic tier in order to have access to a la carte channels or pay-per-view channels offered by the system.

    'Out your ass' is not a legitimate source.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. More commercials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not paying to watch commercials, sorry.

  21. No Fox News channel? by reboot246 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Then no deal. There, I said it. Now you all can mod me down to hell if you want. I don't care. Fox News is number one on cable for a reason, and most of you will never understand that reason.

    No Science Channel? No American Heroes Channel? No Discovery Channel? No History Channel? No H2 Channel? Those are also reasons I still need cable.

    I get every channel Charter offers and their really high speed internet with no data cap. I'll gladly keep paying them for what I get.

    1. Re:No Fox News channel? by Dzimas · · Score: 1, Troll

      Then no deal. There, I said it. Now you all can mod me down to hell if you want. I don't care. Fox News is number one on cable for a reason, and most of you will never understand that reason.

      It's the same reason that Discovery and the History Channel are popular -- it's great entertainment. In the case of Fox News, it's all about watching political commentators take extreme positions and make a series of outlandish claims and statements about "socialists" and "liberals" without realizing that the mainstream political landscape in your country is completely right-wing.

    2. Re:No Fox News channel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then this service obviously isn't for you. But, it's good enough for some people and a step in the right direction for others.

    3. Re:No Fox News channel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You can watch the "Daily Show" and get the Faux Nooze greatest hits for the day. Sort of like Talk Soup for cable news.

    4. Re:No Fox News channel? by Dwedit · · Score: 2

      They were going to offer the history channel, got the package bundle all ready to go and everything, except ALIENS.

    5. Re:No Fox News channel? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There's really no discovery left on the Discovery channel, the the History channel is all about goofy stuff now like ancient aliens and Nazi conspiracies. Never watched that much Science channel but the few times it didn't seem that special though better than average (I like How Its Made though, it's on netflix). Most of cable has really declined badly, it's all about satisfying the hordes who don't like to think.

      Yes it has no Fox News but then again it was never intended to supply all channels. Just a small subset of the most popular ones. Note that it has no news channels at all. Maybe if the experiment catches on they'll supply bundles for other stuff.

      I do find it a bit strange that people seem to think that Dish is being some sort of activist liberal company by cancelling Fox News on purpose, when really this sort of thing has happened in the past with other cable and satellite companies when negotiating licensing terms for renewal. Not a conspiracy. I told my mother this when I heard her on the phone with a friend discussing whether to switch to comcast (gasp!). I had to explain to her that comcast was the country's most hated corporation and that Fox would almost certainly be back within a month. It helped only slightly, she instead cancelled it and got DirecTV...

    6. Re:No Fox News channel? by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Fox News is number one on cable for a reason, and most of you will never understand that reason.

      Masochism?

    7. Re:No Fox News channel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck Fox.

      End of Line.

    8. Re:No Fox News channel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fox News is number one on cable for a reason, and most of you will never understand that reason.

      I know the reason: target audience == money.
      The key to understanding why Fox News is "number one" is to understand why CNN, MSNBC, etc. are not: there's just not enough actual news out there to keep people interested 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Like many of the early cable TV experiments like History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc. CNN eventually learned that a channel dedicated 24-hours to a single thing loses audience after a year or two, and along with audience goes advertising income.

      Fox came late into the cable news game, and needed a hook to distinguish itself from the more established channels. So, they deliberately went for an "under-served market" that nobody else in media cared much about. As a result, Fox News is not so much about "news" as "entertainment" (much as Rush Limbaugh freely admits) directed to attracting and maintaining that audience - and that makes Fox News the go-to destination for advertisers who want to sell them stuff.

      Let's be clear: they're only in it for the money. The point of the Fox News division of the Fox media conglomerate is to round out its portfolio. Fox News is not a great money maker, but it's a steady money maker, and it makes more than CNN or MSNBC because, unless some disaster is in progress, 24-hour cable news is boring. That's why Fox News dedicates so much of its programming around talking-head personality shows instead of straight-ahead read-the-news-from-behind-a-desk. Regardless of what's showing, the only purpose of Fox News is to make money by putting Viagra and other commercials in front of as many receptive eyeballs as possible, and Fox News, by virtue of its "unique" programming and editing decisions for attracting and maintaining its "special" audience, promises to advertisers that its audience is especially receptive, which makes that audience particularly desirable to the advertisers.

      I mean, if the Fox News audience is willing to believe anything Hannity says to them, they're probably just as willing to believe they should talk to their doctors about Cialis (for daily use), that they should invest in gold coins from the Franklin Mint with the proceeds of reverse mortgages and title loans, and that their fridges are probably running low on Coor's Light. That's how it works. O'Reilly and the Friends butter them up, like the warm-up comedian at a comedy club, solely so they will more readily accept that, like Hannity, Home Depot is their friend, and they should head out at their first opportunity to pay it a visit. Thus, advertisers feel they get more bang for their buck at Fox News than elsewhere, and therefore Fox News is "number one".

      For now, at least. Remember: they're only in it for the money. If advertisers ever determine that the Fox News audience is too old or broke to be worth their money, they'll stop paying. And then, old man Murdoch will make a business decision and Fox News will drop its whole shtick in favor of some new audience that holds more promise. Maybe Latino immigrants, in Spanish. The growing Spanish-speaking community would probably appreciate a cable news network that's reliably sympathetic to their views, and advertisers would certainly like to sell them things. And then Hannity will join Glen Beck out there in Internet obscurity; nothing personal, it's just business.

  22. I would pay 5x as much by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    So let's pay $20/mo to 3-5 different places

    Works for me when the difference is having to watch a show when broadcast vs. at any time I like without having to remember (or know) to record it.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  23. What kept me from cord cutting by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    is Hulu is missing most if not all of the drama shows my kid watches. I couldn't care less about sports. But her not having TV made her stand out around her friends as weird. TV is a very social thing for girls.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  24. If it wasn't internet bandwidth... by bswarm · · Score: 1

    I'd be interested if it were via Satellite, but this would put my internet bandwidth over the limit. I see by the article you can add genre packages, which is neat.

    1. Re:If it wasn't internet bandwidth... by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

      Yes, this would actually be of Zero use to us. We live in a rural area and are stuck with vierzon lte @home, tiny bandwidth limits or super expensive overages. No netflix, hulu, amazon streaming and hardly any youtube. Paying $100 a month for internet we cant use sucks.

  25. Any download versus streaming options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If not, that blocks mos t of the Seattle area from using it. Comcast has the government-granted monopoly, but doesn't offer service to much of the city. Because of the old phone wiring and large (for a city) distance between central offices, CenturyLink's DSL is typically very slow or not available. I have 576 kbps, and that is the fast connection out of any of my friends. No one I know here in Seattle has a fast enough connection to stream this. I'd love to have a download/DVR-like option.

    1. Re:Any download versus streaming options? by aquadood · · Score: 1

      I'm in Seattle and have 1gbps/1gbps for $80 (or 100/100mbps for $60) a month. I'm not sure why you are encapsulating all of Seattle in your post. Some of us in Seattle actually do have a decent selection for internet, although not a majority. All of my friends have decent connections, of at least 25mbps or more. I do feel for you, though, as it seems you are in one of those neglected areas of the city that has been shackled by the government arguments, and rights to run needed infrastructure being denied for cash under the table reasons. I sure hope the situation gets better for you, but for some of us in the Seattle area, especially the people that don't watch ESPN, this is a practical option.

    2. Re:Any download versus streaming options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > 1gbps/1gbps for $80

      I'd love to see proof of that. Got a speedtest.net result? I have a lot of friends here, and I don't know any of them that have more than 1 Mbps. I know several guys that have lied and claimed to have, but got caught at the lie. Here's mine showing my 160 kbps CenturyLink DSL connection in Seattle:

      http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3840461248

      And, I feel lucky since the rest of the people in my building can't get DSL at all. My apartment was a business before with a FAX line so CenturyLink spent a lot of time working to get a better quality pair of wires to my place. I live on Capitol Hill close enough to walk to work in downtown. Also, at work we have analog modems since Comcast doesn't offer service and CenturyLink DSL doesn't work because our building has a universal SLIC. That's a box that has a bunch of analog POTS inputs from customers and a much smaller number of POTS outputs to the phone CO. It is used to support more lines without having to run more cables from the CO. The disadvantage is that you can't run digital lines like ISDN, T-1, DSL, etc. through them. There's quite a few of them in the Seattle city which is why so much of Seattle can't get a faster connection than an analog modem.

  26. All you whiners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pay $20/mo for 100/15 mbps internet

    I can't believe I see some of you pay $100/mo or more for less bandwidth.

  27. Lions fans rejoice!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go ahead and limit ESPN. We weren't going to watch sports anymore anyways.

  28. Lawsuits already in progress by jordanjay29 · · Score: 2

    Considering that Dish is a reputable company that needs to preserve its relationship with networks, I have a feeling they've already done the legal footwork to set this up.

  29. Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The main sports I like are all on NBCSN and sister channels for overflow. The channels offered by this new package are uninteresting to me. Boo hoo!

  30. A La Cartel by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

    Imagine a world where the cable company bought all the restaurant chains. Meals are no longer for sale! If you want to eat dinner at Chili's, just sign up for an expensive monthly service providing all-you-can-eat food at 37 chains all around town.

    What's that, you only want to eat out occasionally at one or two restaurants? That's your choice but the price is the same.

    Oh, did I mention that each meal will be interrupted 2-3 times for several minutes of pitches from various unrelated businesses? Don't worry, you'll get used to it! Soon it will seem normal to eat this way.

  31. Can I leave out ESPN and CNN ? by bobjr94 · · Score: 2

    then get a lower rate ? Ive read espn is the most expensive basic channel to carry, I havent watched it for years (ever ?) along with 80% of the other channels.

    1. Re:Can I leave out ESPN and CNN ? by Bigby · · Score: 1

      Why comment on this news then? There are plenty of non-ESPN options, like Netflix and Hulu. The fact is, ESPN is the most expensive for a reason. It is BY FAR the most watch cable channel. This is BIG news because the biggest cable channel is now accessible as a stream for as low as $20. That is the cheapest one can pay to legally watch ESPN related channels. You can watch ESPN3 for free, but no live games. The live games has been the big missing cog.

      With this change, expect your al la carte option in a couple years. TV contracts are breaking down and direct feeds to providers is the future. HBO toppled the first domino with their annoucement last year. When ESPN falls (this is the first step), the whole thing will come tumbling down.

  32. Yet another? by jandersen · · Score: 1

    Hmm? One of the things I've never actually managed to understand is, why do people want to pay for access to up to hundreds of tv channels, all showing near-identical programmes, none of which are really worth your time, and of which you are only ever going to watch a few any way? Perhaps I see it this way because I live in UK, where I can see some 5 - 10 actual tv channels on FreeView, and still only manage to find between 0 and 1 at any time that I want to watch. I have no need for chat shows, reality tv, sport, docudramas or whatever they are called; I don't want wall-to-wall passive entertainment - genuine information, well presented facts, honestly presented news etc, that's all I require.

  33. $20 for CSpan and Weather Channel? by user.aaaaa · · Score: 0

    no it is toooo much. i have free yahoo weather on my phone

  34. ESPN as a motivator by VAXcat · · Score: 1

    HA! I'm an avid sports non-fan. Years back, when they were starting to roll out cable TV service in Houston, they actually had door to door salespeople going around to sign people up. The packages available were clearly designed to extort as much money from the customers as possible. With that goal in mind, the service tiers that included ESPN and other sports channels were really expensive. I selected one of the less expensive service offerings, as I'd rather go to the dentist than watch a stick and ball game played on TV. The salesman was practically frantic, and threatened me that I absolutely wouldn't be able to watch ANY sports with that selection. I laughed in his face and asked if there was any way he could guarantee that no sports would leak into my channels. He left shaking his head - clearly, he'd never met an avid sports non-fan before.

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  35. A Musical Dedication to the Cable Companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s

  36. ESPN sucks by sdguero · · Score: 1

    I'm a sports fan. I watch the NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA, even some premier league. And other than Sunday night football or the occasional live sports event, I rarely watch ESPN. I get my sports news online. ESPN's sports news coverage used to be great, then it was decent, now it sucks. The way the entwork completely ignores hockey (because they haven't had any TV rights with the NHL since 2003) is absurd.

    What sucks is that at this point ESPN basically has TV sports coverage in the USA monopolized. They can pay high prices for college football or whatever broadly appealling sportring even is happening and every cable provider carries them so enough people will watch to make it profitable. They are like the Microsoft of sport networks. It blows.

  37. UFC Fight Night by PPVTV · · Score: 1

    Upcoming UFC Fight Night at 18 January, 2015. Exclusive Fight Pass Prelims begin at 6.00/3.00 ET/PT. To Get Full VIP Access Visit Here: http://bit.ly/ufchdtv More Information: http://ufclivestreamingppv.blo...