You're not listening. They make computer hardware but they're not a computer company. Are you deliberately being obtuse?
In what way are they not a computer company? They have made minicomputers, and operating systems for them, since 1966, including the 2100 series and the 3000 series, the latter being sold as business computers, and have made UN*X systems for both technical and business use since the 1980's.
What does a company have to do to be "a computer company"?
Back in 2001 and 2002 we'd just been the victims of a terrorist attack.
Thereby deranging people into thinking that the PATRIOT Act was a Good Idea, sometimes to the extent of, as noted, equating opposition to the PATRIOT Act to sympathizing with terrorism.
Which was even earlier than 1995, so it even further emphasizes that the title of the comment to which I responded, that "HP PCs are from original Compaq", is at best misleading (HP had PCs before the purchase of Compaq).
If you want to say "HP didn't enter the PC market until the Mac came out", mention the HP Vectra, not Compaq; HP's purchase of Compaq is utterly irrelevant to HP's entry into the PC market.
Wrong. The Pavilion series was introduced in 1995. 11 years after the Macintosh.
The fact that the Pavilion was introduced in 1995 proves the claim, from my posting, that "Prior to [HP's purchase of Compaq], [HP] had their own PC line" false? I don't think so.
(No, I didn't claim, in any posting, that HP was in the PC business when the Mac was introduced.)
Yeah, they've only been making calculatorssince 1966.
A minicomputer is not a calculator (unless you consider any computer a "calculator", in which case, well, just replace all occurrences of "computer" with "calculator" in this story, all articles to which this story refers, and all comments on this story, and the point remains that HP is as much of a computer^Wcalculator company as IBM, DEC, etc.), and an HP 2100 is definitely a minicomputer. (Yes, HP made a line of calculators using a processor with an HP 2100-derived instruction set, but that's a different matter.)
Dell doesn't really count. They weren't around back when Apple was founded. If you're curious, Apple was founded in 1976, Dell in 1984.
The quote was "Every company that made computers when we started the Mac, they're all gone", not "Every company that made computers when we were founded, they're all gone", so it's irrelevant that Apple was founded before Dell.
If you want to limit it to PCs (which the original quote did not), then you might as well rule out Apple too.
They build (or rather, subcontract offshore companies to build) phones and tablets, neither of which by any stretch could be considered general purpose computers the way PCs could, and an increasingly shrinking line of computing appliances, ditto.
They also build Macs, which
come, by default, with an OS that lets you pop up a terminal window and run the usual UN*X command-line interface;
put the initial account in the "admin" group by default, so that the user can, in that terminal window, use sudo;
offer development tools for that OS for free, and don't prevent you from writing code for it and letting others run that code (you can't go through the App Store without jumping through hoops, but it's as yet undemonstrated that they'll go the App Store-only route);
can run Windows or Linux if you want;
so, in addition to the phones, tablets, and computing appliances (I assume you're referring there to the iPods other than the iPod touch, but they're even more appliance-like than the iOS machines), they do still manufacture a line of personal computers.
For best performance, segments should be aligned on virtual memory page boundaries—4096 bytes for PowerPC and x86 processors. To calculate the size of a segment, add up the size of each section, then round up the sum to the next virtual memory page boundary (4096 bytes, or 4 kilobytes). Using this algorithm, the minimum size of a segment is 4 kilobytes, and thereafter it is sized at 4 kilobyte increments.
And that's not necessarily space in the file:
Segments that require more memory at runtime than they do at build time can specify a larger in-memory size than they actually have on disk. For example, the __PAGEZERO segment generated by the linker for PowerPC executable files has a virtual memory size of one page but an on-disk size of 0. Because __PAGEZERO contains no data, there is no need for it to occupy any space in the executable file.
although if a segment is being paged in from the file, it'll be padded on disk so that you don't get extra cruft from the following segment when you fault in the last page of the segment.
It's been ages since I dealt with ELF (back in 1988), but I suspect that the same is done there. This version of the ELF specification seems to suggest that it is.
I.e., they may be specified in units of bytes, but they might also be padded to a number of bytes that's a multiple of the page size.
The entry point of an elf executable is not main(), it is a function called _start()
That dates back well before ELF, all the way to PDP-11 UNIX's a.out format.
which is provided by gcc or glibc (I can't recall)
On Solaris with Sun C^W^WOracle Studio, it's provided neither by GCC nor by glibc; on *BSD, it's definitely not provided by glibc, and if clang is used, it's obviously not provided by GCC.
That's what happens when you have demand-paged shared-text executables; the section sizes are padded up to the page size, even if there isn't that much code in them, and the text and data might be put on separate pages (without copy-on-write, you'd make the text never be writable and the data writable, on separate pages; with copy-on-write, you could let one page contain both text and data, and have it copy on write if you store into the data, but that's probably not worth bothering with).
I'm not sure what "others" is, but I suspect there's a bug there (I'll take a look). 4K text, 4K data (that's the page size), which isn't too bad; the bulk of the work is done in a library, though - it's a shared library, and this OS doesn't support linking statically with libSystem, so it's hard to tell how much code is dragged in by printf. The actual file size isn't that big:
$ ls -l hello -rwxr-xr-x 1 gharris wheel 8752 Jan 7 21:58 hello
LLVM / Clang's acceptance of patent encumbered code from Apple, Qualcomm, and others makes LLVM technically unlawful to use for anyone who doesn't have a cross license agreement with these corporations.
If you or your employer own the rights to a patent and would like to contribute code to LLVM that relies on it, we require that the copyright owner sign an agreement that allows any other user of LLVM to freely use your patent. Please contact the oversight group for more details.
Are you saying that Apple, Qualcomm, and others have not signed such an agreement? Or are you saying that such an agreement isn't sufficient to allow anyone who doesn't have a cross-license agreement with the patent holders to use LLVM?
That is, unless Einstein's approximation turns out to be more accurate than our observations of this system.
Err, umm, "accurate", when it comes to predictions of scientific theories, means "closely matches the observations", so a theory can only be "more accurate than our observations of this system" if the observations in question are wrong and subsequent observations, determined to be (more) correct, are better matched by the predictions of the theory. Is that what you mean here?
From this Extremetech article, which has a slide speaking of the Knights Landing processor architecture having "up to 72 Intel Architecture cores based on Silvermont (Intel(R) Atom processor)"?
This is another one of those IBM things made from the most rare element in the universe: unobtainium
Presumably meaning "this is like those IBM things", given that, while the first word of the title begins with "I", it doesn't have "B" or "M" following it, it has "n", "t", "e", and "l", instead.
So "overly complicated rules in-forced by under trained, under paid people who can't understand them while having irreversible consequences" sums up things that aren't fascist as well.
I was going to say it wasn't Fascism. But It is. I was going to say it was just overly complicated rules in-forced by under trained, under paid people who can't understand them while having irreversible consequences. But I realized that pretty much sums up Fascism.
A microkernel is defined as a kernel composed of a large number of very loosely coupled modules, with an absolute minimum of functionality in the modules that are loaded initially or by the bootloader.
If by "kernel" you mean code running in kernel space, so that the modules run in privileged mode, that's a kernel with loadable modules, and is not necessarily a microkernel. Bram Stolk's response has a better definition of a microkernel.
In the end, there are a few things I need from Wayland, and I think they will be there in the end: ...
- middle click paste. Maybe done with a virtual frame buffer and rdp to ship the final rendering across the wire.
Middle-click paste has nothing to do with how rendering is done. It has to do with 1) the event loop in your toolkit being able to get middle-click events and 2) code in a GUI application (whether toolkit or application code) being able to get the contents of the most recent selection, even if that might happen to be in another application.
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You're not listening. They make computer hardware but they're not a computer company. Are you deliberately being obtuse?
In what way are they not a computer company? They have made minicomputers, and operating systems for them, since 1966, including the 2100 series and the 3000 series, the latter being sold as business computers, and have made UN*X systems for both technical and business use since the 1980's.
What does a company have to do to be "a computer company"?
Back in 2001 and 2002 we'd just been the victims of a terrorist attack.
Thereby deranging people into thinking that the PATRIOT Act was a Good Idea, sometimes to the extent of, as noted, equating opposition to the PATRIOT Act to sympathizing with terrorism.
And all those people you hate just announced their policy, and they're on the right side of the issue.
For a change. Hopefully, if there is a Republican president in the future, they won't change which side of the issue they're on.
Now it's 2014 and the President is using the IRS, EPA, and ATF to harass and attack his political opponents.
Yeah, using the IRS, the Secret Service, the FBI, and perhaps the CIA against political opponents isn't a good thing.
HP vectra wasn't until 10/85
Which was even earlier than 1995, so it even further emphasizes that the title of the comment to which I responded, that "HP PCs are from original Compaq", is at best misleading (HP had PCs before the purchase of Compaq).
If you want to say "HP didn't enter the PC market until the Mac came out", mention the HP Vectra, not Compaq; HP's purchase of Compaq is utterly irrelevant to HP's entry into the PC market.
Wrong. The Pavilion series was introduced in 1995. 11 years after the Macintosh.
The fact that the Pavilion was introduced in 1995 proves the claim, from my posting, that "Prior to [HP's purchase of Compaq], [HP] had their own PC line" false? I don't think so.
(No, I didn't claim, in any posting, that HP was in the PC business when the Mac was introduced.)
Yeah, they've only been making calculators since 1966.
A minicomputer is not a calculator (unless you consider any computer a "calculator", in which case, well, just replace all occurrences of "computer" with "calculator" in this story, all articles to which this story refers, and all comments on this story, and the point remains that HP is as much of a computer^Wcalculator company as IBM, DEC, etc.), and an HP 2100 is definitely a minicomputer. (Yes, HP made a line of calculators using a processor with an HP 2100-derived instruction set, but that's a different matter.)
Dell doesn't really count. They weren't around back when Apple was founded. If you're curious, Apple was founded in 1976, Dell in 1984.
The quote was "Every company that made computers when we started the Mac, they're all gone", not "Every company that made computers when we were founded, they're all gone", so it's irrelevant that Apple was founded before Dell.
If you want to limit it to PCs (which the original quote did not), then you might as well rule out Apple too.
They build (or rather, subcontract offshore companies to build) phones and tablets, neither of which by any stretch could be considered general purpose computers the way PCs could, and an increasingly shrinking line of computing appliances, ditto.
They also build Macs, which
so, in addition to the phones, tablets, and computing appliances (I assume you're referring there to the iPods other than the iPod touch, but they're even more appliance-like than the iOS machines), they do still manufacture a line of personal computers.
HP purchased Compaq and this became their PC line.
Prior to that, they had their own PC line.
HP doesn't have the tradition of a "Computer Company".
Yeah, they've only been making computers since 1966.
I was wondering why they thought their register VM was applicable to a scheme variant
Why would it not be relevant?
He's on Google+,
That's not him; he doesn't work for Google.
heard he has heart trouble too.
Had heart trouble. They fixed that.
Nope.
You are correct that they are padded when they are loaded in memory. but on disk (at least with ELF)
You are making an incorrect assumption here. (Hint: I said "libSystem", not "libc".)
the size of segments is specified in bytes, not pages.
OK, let's look in a little more detail:
The Mach-O specification says:
And that's not necessarily space in the file:
although if a segment is being paged in from the file, it'll be padded on disk so that you don't get extra cruft from the following segment when you fault in the last page of the segment.
It's been ages since I dealt with ELF (back in 1988), but I suspect that the same is done there. This version of the ELF specification seems to suggest that it is.
I.e., they may be specified in units of bytes, but they might also be padded to a number of bytes that's a multiple of the page size.
The entry point of an elf executable is not main(), it is a function called _start()
That dates back well before ELF, all the way to PDP-11 UNIX's a.out format.
which is provided by gcc or glibc (I can't recall)
On Solaris with Sun C^W^WOracle Studio, it's provided neither by GCC nor by glibc; on *BSD, it's definitely not provided by glibc, and if clang is used, it's obviously not provided by GCC.
Also 8k is fucking huge.
That's what happens when you have demand-paged shared-text executables; the section sizes are padded up to the page size, even if there isn't that much code in them, and the text and data might be put on separate pages (without copy-on-write, you'd make the text never be writable and the data writable, on separate pages; with copy-on-write, you could let one page contain both text and data, and have it copy on write if you store into the data, but that's probably not worth bothering with).
On OS X, printf is pretty huge. It is locale aware and so will call localeconv() to find out various things like currency separators.
printf appears to be locale-aware on, for example, FreeBSD as well; I don't think that's particularly OS X-specific.
Nowadays, even the most basic "Hello World" program comes up in megabyte range.
The most basic "Hello World" program doesn't have a GUI (if it has a GUI, you can make it more basic by just printing with printf), so let's see:
I'm not sure what "others" is, but I suspect there's a bug there (I'll take a look). 4K text, 4K data (that's the page size), which isn't too bad; the bulk of the work is done in a library, though - it's a shared library, and this OS doesn't support linking statically with libSystem, so it's hard to tell how much code is dragged in by printf. The actual file size isn't that big:
LLVM / Clang's acceptance of patent encumbered code from Apple, Qualcomm, and others makes LLVM technically unlawful to use for anyone who doesn't have a cross license agreement with these corporations.
The LLVM Developer Policy page section on patents says:
Are you saying that Apple, Qualcomm, and others have not signed such an agreement? Or are you saying that such an agreement isn't sufficient to allow anyone who doesn't have a cross-license agreement with the patent holders to use LLVM?
That is, unless Einstein's approximation turns out to be more accurate than our observations of this system.
Err, umm, "accurate", when it comes to predictions of scientific theories, means "closely matches the observations", so a theory can only be "more accurate than our observations of this system" if the observations in question are wrong and subsequent observations, determined to be (more) correct, are better matched by the predictions of the theory. Is that what you mean here?
Where are you getting Atom cores from?
From this Extremetech article, which has a slide speaking of the Knights Landing processor architecture having "up to 72 Intel Architecture cores based on Silvermont (Intel(R) Atom processor)"?
This is another one of those IBM things made from the most rare element in the universe: unobtainium
Presumably meaning "this is like those IBM things", given that, while the first word of the title begins with "I", it doesn't have "B" or "M" following it, it has "n", "t", "e", and "l", instead.
it is not unique. it is a necessary precondition.
So "overly complicated rules in-forced by under trained, under paid people who can't understand them while having irreversible consequences" sums up things that aren't fascist as well.
I was going to say it wasn't Fascism. But It is. I was going to say it was just overly complicated rules in-forced by under trained, under paid people who can't understand them while having irreversible consequences. But I realized that pretty much sums up Fascism.
And it is somehow unique to fascism?
That word does not mean what you think it means.
Nor does it mean what you think it means.
A microkernel is defined as a kernel composed of a large number of very loosely coupled modules, with an absolute minimum of functionality in the modules that are loaded initially or by the bootloader.
If by "kernel" you mean code running in kernel space, so that the modules run in privileged mode, that's a kernel with loadable modules, and is not necessarily a microkernel. Bram Stolk's response has a better definition of a microkernel.
In the end, there are a few things I need from Wayland, and I think they will be there in the end:
...
- middle click paste. Maybe done with a virtual frame buffer and rdp to ship the final rendering across the wire.
Middle-click paste has nothing to do with how rendering is done. It has to do with 1) the event loop in your toolkit being able to get middle-click events and 2) code in a GUI application (whether toolkit or application code) being able to get the contents of the most recent selection, even if that might happen to be in another application.
The issue with middle-click paste in Wayland appears to be with 2) and how to do that in Wayland.