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US Customs Destroys Virtuoso's Flutes Because They Were "Agricultural Items"
McGruber writes "Flute virtuoso Boujemaa Razgui performed on a variety of flutes, each made by himself over years for specific types of ancient and modern performance. Razgui has performed with many U.S. ensembles and is a regular guest with the diverse and enterprising Boston Camerata. Last week, Razgui flew from Morocco to Boston, with stops in Madrid and New York. In New York, he says, a US Customs official opened his luggage and found the 13 flutelike instruments — 11 nays and two kawalas. Razgui says he had made all of the instruments using hard-to-find reeds. 'They said this is an agriculture item,' said Razgui, who was not present when his bag was opened. 'I fly with them in and out all the time and this is the first time there has been a problem. This is my life.' When his baggage arrived in Boston, the instruments were gone. He was instead given a number to call. 'They told me they were destroyed,' he says. 'Nobody talked to me. They said I have to write a letter to the Department of Agriculture in Washington, D.C. This is horrible. I don't know what to do. I've never written letters to people.'"
Why are you afraid of Hubbard?
" I've never written letters to people"
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I never thought of flutes as an "invasive species."
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The dude does have a very legitimate beef though, considering he's taken these around to probably dozens of countries and crossed several hundred borders with them. He apparently had some "raw" material with him to make new flutes, but that wood typically needs to be completely dry and aged. Either way the carved flutes were likely sealed and shouldn't have been destroyed without a very, very good reason, which I doubt the CBP had.
Another whistle blower!
He's obviously a denialist and he got off easy.
The wood that he unscrupulously and capitalistically exploited for his burgeious profit contraption could have reduced ALGORE'S carbon footprint if he hadn't murdered it for his own selfish amusement. I'm just disturbed that this 1%er scum wasn't thrown into our enviromental reeducation camps for his crimes against science.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
...and recognize this for what it is. Fascism.
He shouldn't have had them in his checked baggage, since it's well known that checked bags often get lost. If something's that important, it should be in your carry-on.
...that going through US customs could ruin your life. DON'T DO IT.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
When are people going to finally get fed up with these TSA assholes and DEMAND that Congress do something about them, like removing their Federal protection from being sued for their abuses.
and some that doesn't
You mean the sheer stupidity of the civil servants doesn't matter ??
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Many musical instruments are made of wood. So I guess they are all at risk if the owners come to the US.
You mean the sheer stupidity of the United States Federal Government.
... I will make sure to come naked. ...
I assume, however, this will be the worst thing you can do
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Each and every day that I read /. I become even more relieved than the day before that fate smiled on me by not making me a citizen of the USA, and not giving me any compelling reason to visit.
If you like your flute.
'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
Once I walked through an airport terminal with wood. I was on my way to Bangkok.
US no longer stands for "Uncle Sam." Now it's "Uncle Stupid." Leather luggage comes from cowhide, isn't that an agricultural item? Fucking morons in charge.
Oh wow! That is breaking news right there. Why have you not submitted that article about how customs is the whole government now?
and I never once have regretted that decision. Wouldn't go to dubai either for similar reasons. Toxic culture. I do feel sorry to anyone living there and do hope you are armed.
-
Coming 3.. 2.. 1..
You're hissy fits are getting annoying.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
wat?
I also don't see why this is on Slashdot. Customs official opens a bag and doesn't notice that these reed looking things are flutes, promptly destroys the reeds. Guy should have kept these with him if he valued them so much. Shit happens. Not sure why this particular shit happening made it on Slashdot.
But what can you do? I know it's bad for the guy who plays the things, but I wouldn't want to shut down customs over it.
Nothing more needs to be said.
Will they start destroying cotton based clothing? Leather soled shoes?
Frog in boiling water is where we are at.
The TSA are just so comically stupid and useless.
If your worthless and you know it, join the TSA.
You... I like you
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
TSA agents have been know to do unscrupulous things.
Wooden pencils as well. As a side note I was once sent to Ag inspection for mentioning I had some sea salt. Customs people aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree.
He should definitely be compensated.
You're hissy fits are getting annoying.
And your misuse of the apostrophe is even more annoying.
If you are going to complain, you'd better make sure your own
house is in order first, sonny boy.
Always fly with a normal sounding name or face the consequences. Morroco? Never fly Out of Afrika. Never fly into Amerika. Problem averted.
It's not clear that these obviously looked like musical instruments to a person who isn't accustomed to seeing various kinds of flutes. Bundle of reeds with notches in them. Customs probably thought they were bongs.
I reed the story he should have flute to a different city.
New York has all kinds of problems.
"who was not present when his bag was opened"
This is not how US Customs works - each passenger needs to take their own bag through customs, and if there are problems then the owner of the item is there to discuss it with the customs officer.
There are situations where this doesn't happen (eg, a delayed/lost bag), but the article doesn't mention that.
I'm not saying that this didn't happen, but there's clearly more to the story than the article states!!
... or stolen?
You're hissy fits
No, I'm rubber. And you're glue!
No. I sounds like one exceptional moron decided to go on a power trip. This is like that bitch at the American Airlines counter that can decide that you aren't flying today.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That's what happens when you hire fast food workers into bureaucratic roles and give them absolute power over other people.
Futurist Traditionalism
How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
... government has absolute power, but the people who work there tend to be power mad crazies like Eric Holder, morons like the drones in US customs or low life fucktards like the NSA.
I lived and worked in the US for a few years prior to 9/11, and travelled to many parts of the country. I still have a lot of good friends down there, and surely there are a lot of places that I'd love to visit again.
The problem is that since I moved back to Canada there have been a seemingly endless series of stories like this. Whether it's Mahar Arar being grabbed and shipped to Syria for torture and imprisonment; Jacob Appelbaum being detailed by US customs with no reason and no explanation; innocent people who are having their laptops and phones seized and copied with no warrant or explanation, or who are quite simply harassed at the border on the whim of any customs agent. - it just seems to be happening more and more each year.
Being innocent (whatever that means to Homeland Security) is no protection. All it takes is one renta-cop with a bad attitude.
To my American friends: I am honestly terrified by the thought of crossing your border, and I am not alone.
Three Squirrels
An important sentence was left out of the summary, which explained that customs mistook the instruments for pieces of bamboo. Judging from the photo accompanying the article, the confusion is almost understandable. It looks like a home made instrument that may or may not have been prepared properly given restrictions on agricultural products. (Example: they may not have been concerned about the bamboo per se, but rather invasive insects that may be in it since the reeds may not have been treated.)
The moral of the story is to verify that the stuff that you're taking across the border is actually legal for import or export. After all, it could have been much worse for this man. I would imagine that charges could have been pressed if they so desired.
Do they strip naked anyone who's wearing natural fiber?
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
US no longer stands for "Uncle Sam." Now it's "Uncle Stupid." Leather luggage comes from cowhide, isn't that an agricultural item? Fucking morons in charge.
I guess soo it will be the UF... Who knew that Tarrence and Phillip would be so prescient?
These are the fucking morons who will be making your healthcare decisions.
Well then, explain how this article relates to science and technology. What's that? It doesn't? Shut up then.
If you go through US customs, the tools you use to do your job may not make it with you. Like your phone, laptop, textbooks, thumb drives, or hand made wooden flutes.
A failing elitist society is going to make quite a noise on the way down.
You're wrong. Slashdot is just for science and technology stories. The "somewhere else" you refer to is the place for irrelevant submissions like this one. So get your ass back to reddit, nancy.
It could have been his skin flute.
Shut up slave! Don't question our authority!
Yours Sincerely,
The USA empire.
Wooden pencils as well. As a side note I was once sent to Ag inspection for mentioning I had some sea salt. Customs people aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree.
In this particular case, you are giving Customs people way too much credit for comparing them to something as bright as any light bulb.
Rocks more come to mind. You know, like the ones rattling around in the idiots head that could not identify a handmade instrument.
Why in the hell do we put up with such incompetence? Do we not pay enough into the TSA to not hire utter morons? A man's livelihood was destroyed in a matter of hours. Someone should be held accountable, and NOT be able to stand behind some bullshit policy that prevents terrorists from importing rare wood, or whatever the hell we were attempting to prevent here with total destruction.
That reminds me. Say "Hi" to your mom for me.
The people who work in border control are called "Officers". This means that they apply some rules, regulations or laws and have discretion in how they do that. Their bosses have no right to question those decisions and cannot order these officers to change any decision that they have made. The only way to get a decision reversed is to go to court. I'm not sure which court to go to but a US lawyer would be able to tell you that. Suing them is a possibility to get some cash back to help you replace the lost goods, but if you want the decision reversed and your immigration record to be cleaned then you need to appeal the officers decision in the correct court (probably a Federal court of some sort) and get a judge to rule that the officer was wrong and should not have done this. Then in the future you could include a copy of that court ruling in every one of your instrument cases.
You make much over-use of the "we". You do not speak for me or for the reasons why I come to slashdot. Take your doltish, bigoted views and STFU.
I read slashdot because I am interested in science and technology, and because I am also interested in anything others with similar interests find interesting. I do not use slashdot as a mirror that would let me pimp and preen in what I already know; I also value its use as a periscope that looks around corners I am unaware of to show me things of interest I would never otherwise see.
This story has value on slashdot.
Will
I disagree. What goes on at customs is relevant to all of us, and any calibrations of the people involved, such as this one, are good to have. I hope this gets some nice front page coverage in NY Times and similar papers, but if they follow form, they may treat it as yet another atrocious act by the government, which they may wish for political reasons to cover up.
I do hope that Mr. Razgui gets compensated hugely, the guilty agent gets fired, and stern policy warnings about this kind of thing get promulgated. Alas I cannot hold my breath for such.
Hi, Sarah.
/. has for the longest time covered articles about politics, civil rights and stupidities of the government.
This in my view isn't a story about customs protecting agriculture but rather about a civil servant removing equipment which belonged to someone and without notice or recourse destroying that equipment.
I guess it's not as fun sounding as the TSA confiscating a laptop and not having due process to get it back, but what's really the difference?
That's not what he said.
The GP is pointing out that people - at least the loudest ones - are concerned about bullshit and have no concept of what real freedom is.
I am just as disgusted over this "outrage" over what some reality TV 'star' (I don't care what he says or thinks and I have no idea what the big deal is) and yet, those same people who are all outraged over the Duck whatever guy on either side say NOTHING about the abuse of our own government.
AND I'd like to point out that freedom of speech is to protect us from the government curtailing our speech.
Is peanut gallery getting outraged over the US Custom's abuses?
Nope!
They are all pissed of what the Duck guy said or are pissed at his network for censoring him - which IS well within THEIR right as his employer.
Stuff that matters is part of the slogan so they can post non tech stories sometimes. Seriously, get the fuck over yourself. You do not own /.
http://www.coindev.org/asi-tfp.jpg
HAHA
It's not clear that these obviously looked like musical instruments to a person who isn't accustomed to seeing various kinds of flutes. Bundle of reeds with notches in them. Customs probably thought they were bongs.
It's clear that these morons obviously looked like regular employees when hired. TSA isn't accustomed to determining the difference. Bunch of idiots with politicians behind them. Americans probably thought they had brains.
Funny, last time I went to the states they nearly refused to let me in because of an "Arab" stamp in my passport. Well I did fly Emirates, and I did have a free hotel in Dubai since it was a 9 hour stopover the first time.
By the way I feel safer travelling through Dubai than the USA. The culture may be toxic but at least it is a local and well known culture. Don't want to end up in jail, don't pretend western laws apply in Dubai.
The sad thing is the same comment about western laws these days can be applied to the USA.
Just to make it clear, Morocco is an Arab country and he has probably an Arab name. Not saying whether it's right or wrong, but I guess that's the kind of thing Arabs can expect after 9/11. It's not the Americans' fault that these camel-lovers like to blow themselves up, just saying..
I used to work in a port. We once received an automobile from Thailand in a 20 ft shipping container. The auto was tied down with ropes and the ropes were tightened by twisting with shafts of bamboo (which, by the way, is about the crappiest way to tied down a car and very non-standard). When we opened up container, the bamboo was riddled with holes from some kind of Asian woodborers that had chewed their way out during transit. Anyway, we had to call the Department of Agriculture inspector (this was before the ag inspectors were merged into customs) who had us fumigate the whole container.
So the moral of the story here is, based on experience, if I opened a box with reeds full of holes originating from a foreign land , I'd burn it too.
Why in the hell do we put up with such incompetence? Do we not pay enough into the TSA to not hire utter morons?
Absolutely not! TSA agents are mostly people who couldn't pass the US Postal Carrier exam. Several people I knew who were not "bulbworthy" were getting jobs at the TSA shortly after 9/11. They have a very low bar for entry.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
he might be saying that the US is just too far gone for anything else to work.
Find a good lawyer who is an expert in this area and sue the big Jesus out of US customs. These lousy f@%ks think they are above the law and use this to abuse passengers whenever they can. They will confiscate your work computer, camera, tablet and phone, and not tell you when you can have them back (with scratches on the edges and spyware installed). What they do is the only bit of power they will ever have over you. So they aren't afraid to be vulgar, rude and abusive. When you deal with them, you will quickly understand that you have put yourself in situation of being their bitch. This practice has to be stopped and it will only happen when genuine people stand up and take action. Otherwise evil triumphs.
Its his own damn fault. Flying while brown...... What did he expect? Fair treatment?
I do feel sorry to anyone living there and do hope you are armed.
Why? So he could have shot the border control official? And then shot the security guards, followed by the police, SWAT, army, etc? What problem would be solved by being armed?
Polish pianist Kristian Zimerman had his Steinway grand piano seized by the TSA twice: the fist time around they destroyed it, the second time they just detained it for a week: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krystian_Zimerman
No, they didn't confuse it with a vegetable---apparently Zimerman recently modified his instrument and the piano smelled of glue. As a result he ended up travelling with just the mechanism, fitting it by hand to the boxes at concert halls he plays in.
I don't really agree with most of this comment- but I do agree he should have kept them with him.
Wife and I learned the hard way when we had a bunched of stuff stolen out of our luggage flying from ORD to IST- if something has monetary and/or sentimental value, always keep it with you.
Turkish airlines sent us $100 check for the $500+ stuff that was stolen.
Turn your head and cough.
If you were my wife, I'd drink it.
Why do we as Americans give up our 4th Amendment protections if we fly?
Only the American people willingly get curb stomped by their government in the name of security.
Let me guess: you're one of the three or so remaining people who believe that the government is "here to help you?"
The US Army conducts an IQ test as pre-employment screening to determine which job(s) you may apply for, assuming you cross a minimal threshold, and you may hold an infantry position with the lowest acceptable score. Time and trial have taught the military that lower scores make better better soldiers at positions like 8 hour foxhole guard duty.
There exist occupations, within the military and without, where greater cognitive ability is a distinct advantage.
But there are some that ain't.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
They were most likely destroyed under a policy intended to curb illegal deforestation. So not terrorism for a change...
Your inability to use the word "You're" correctly is getting annoying.
Surely they do not have the authority to destroy, rather than confiscate, private property? Well, Obomber has probably given them immunity from everything in some executive order somewhere. Travelling these days has been made completely sh1t by the government (aka the companies who make huge profits from the airport security theatre).
The relevancy is this: if a musician can't get a set of flutes through Customs without having them ruined, what happens when we travel with our laptops and other techie devices?
No offense?
None taken.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Do not do business with the usa if you value your data.
Do not visit the usa unless you have a very good reason. A concert is not a good reason.
If you MUST visit. Anything valuable should be sent fedex. Sure still a chance it will vanish. But theres alot less chance of it encountering monumental stupid at our borders.
And don't even think of visiting if you're any shade of brown.
We're a police state now. And a really dumb one at that.
The ASVAB is not an IQ test... But nice try
+1 wordsmith.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
The guy was carrying a fasces, he must have been a Fascist.
Right on! I would only want to add that the agents need Red Formans' giant foot in their a$$es. And Yes, I'm posting as Anon Coward. NSA already knows who I am!
All countries have strict controls on import of agricultural goods. It's an absolute necessity in this day and age when import of a couple of insects can wipe out a whole native species.
For example several important species of trees in the US have been lost this way. The Ash are right now being decimated by the emerald borer from China. It's likely that this insect will wipe out the entire genus of Ash trees in North America.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2012/10/21/ashes-continue-road-to-extinction.html
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/science/2013/08/25/1-decimation-of-ash-trees-provides-valuable-lesson.html
So one guy had his flutes mistaken for agricultural products. Not really that big a deal in the big picture. This is one case when you really want to err on the conservative side because making a mistake in the other direction is a really bad thing.
It isn't a case of human rights, illegal searches or ethnic profiling or anything like that.
As far as I'm concerned this is just another misplaced slashdot article.
Frodo and Samwise walked from the Shire to Mordor (even though it's clear at the end one of those fucking eagles could have carried the both of them) , and you refuse to have the TSA Experience story to share with your grandchildren?
That's just selfiush.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
I believe the phrase you want is "bright as pitch."
Not a sentence!
Get slapped down. If you don't read the rules first, don't blame others.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They were most likely destroyed under a policy intended to curb illegal deforestation. So not terrorism for a change...
Illegal deforestation? That's some thin ice you're standing on given the medium involved (bamboo).
Given that he's traveled to and from Boston since 2002 to perform with the same group without incident, I'd say that the destruction may have been influenced by the overall paranoia across all agencies due to the threat of terrorism. Apparently they think they're going to catch evil men importing AK-47s due to the rare wood stocks...
Take your doltish, bigoted views and STFU.
Bigoted? Maybe limited-perspective but I'm still trying to find the bigotry in GP. Maybe you object to the use of the word bitch describing the discussion of such a topic. Unless you have canine relatives, however, I don't see that even that can be construed as bigotry. The GP is simply stating an opinion about article selection.
It seems that lately people inject forms of the word bigot as an attention-grabber when the word usually is a better description of themeselves - the ones attempting to place the label on others.
The airport at Boston has one of the worst reputations for respecting the public, and they continue to earn it.
I've learned the hard way, if I want stuff to arrive in a reasonable condition, buy a cheap plastic Coleman cooler from your store of choice (if you can sit on the cooler without it collapsing, it is good enough), put your stuff inside, well padded, then seal, box, and ship the cooler via your freight delivery service of choice. Yes, it might be opened, but it likely will not get lost unlike most stuff from plane baggage carriers.
Of course, bicycles and larger items will not fit, so you are on your own there.
The company I work for has moved to Citrix XenApp desktops for remoting in, so for remote users, all the computer needs is a Citrix client. This allows the computer to run Windows 7 with BitLocker and a TPM chip, with the user logging onto an account they don't have admin access. This way, if a laptop gets seized, there is no data that can be taken. If modified or tampered with, it will be obvious (the new Dells use Secure Boot and TPM chips to ensure that the OS doesn't get tampered with.) It isn't 100%, nor NSA-proof, but it would stop some overzealous LEO from slapping their own keyboard logger on a device because they didn't like the hairstyle of someone.
If large amounts data has to be sent, it gets sent encrypted with BitLocker via a freight service, and the key is sent via USPS registered mail. That way, if the employee's phone and data is seized at an airport and the employee made to enter passwords [1], there is no access to any data. Of course, the drive and registered mail can be seized, but that actually takes a lot more work than just a stop and search at a checkpoint.
As for flutes and such, one is far better off insuring them with a specialty company and having them shipped separately than taking the risk of some goons destroying them.
[1]: With the RIPA act, the UK can order someone to log onto the domain and give them full access to any contents stored there, so if one is a domain admin, it can mean complete, total compromise of the enterprise. This is solved by two accounts, one user account, one admin account, and the admin account gets locked when the employee leaves.
It is not an IQ test but an Aptitude test. They find out what they think you would be best at then try to fit you in there. The army has learned that stupid soldiers aren't good soldiers.
As a current civil servant, not TSA, TSA agents are not considered to be civil servants in the way current civil servants eg. IRS, SSA, FBI etc. are considered. They don't qualify for many of the job protections that other civil servants do among other things. They occupy the office next to mine in a federal building. TSA is generally viewed in a negative manor.
There's no way they could have been insured for their proper value. Neys are very difficult and temperamental instruments; the embouchure required to play them takes tremendous practice, and each ney is unique. Insurance could cover the cost of replacement, but it wouldn't compensate for the lost bond between player and instrument.
I have actively avoided visits to the USA in the past ten years. Tradeshow? Regional conference? Send someone else.
Herp derp I so cool I didn't do this thing since before it was dangerous wow I cool.
TSA Public Relations representative Grebnedlog released the following statement regarding the incident: "We look for things. Things we need. Things that make us go. We need help. We look for things."
TSA Enforcement Officer Mongo added, "Mongo like candy."
Take off every Sig. For great justice.
They probably would have burned him too, just to be sure.
Yes, we have it so horrible here. Woe is me.
Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
You have just insulted billions of fictional Pakleds.
+1 for Star Trek TNG reference.
And at the very top, the boss of them all, is Barack Obama. Why isn't anyone else naming him when this shit happens? What has he done to rein in these abuses? Nothing.
I think it's more likely that a bag handler or TSA agent flat out stole the flutes, and the "agricultural product" excuse is just some run-around style bureaucratic ass-covering. One of our agents stole your things? Oh actually it's because of [MADE-UP REASON], and you need to contact [RANDOM OTHER AGENCY] to deal with it.
Esoteric reference.
The army has learned that stupid soldiers aren't good soldiers.
So those too stupid for the Army are sent over to the TSA, right?
Yes, but -2 for insulting the Pakleds so horribly. The Pakleds are like Einstein compared to the TSA.
"I don't know what to do. I've never written letters to people.'
Huh!?! what?!? is this guy a moron or something... is he a three year old? Grow a pair and be a man. Hire a lawyer and sue their ass and stop whining in the press.
Apparently no-one even read the title, and immediately jumped to the assumption that TSA is at fault. TSA doesn't inspect inbound international luggage, that's the job of Customs, Border Patrol (CBP). Customs has very clear restrictions on bring in plants, timbers, etc and obviously they felt the raw flute making materials qualified under those restrictions.
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/kbyg/prohibited_restricted.xml#PlantsandSeeds
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/index.shtml
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/fact_sheets/agriculture/olympic_ag.ctt/olympic_ag.pdf
Had he known about the restrictions and he declared them, it wouldn't have been an issue.
While I question this thread even being on /. in the first place, from personal experience, the concern was for the possibility of wood boring beetles or other insects hiding in the wood. I once brought back from China 4 sets of large, disassembled picture frames. If it hadn't been one of the first flights back from Asia after 9/11, the inspector would have summarily destroyed them, but he was apparently feeling sorry for all of us on the flight and took me and the frames to the side. He looked up and down each piece looking for any indications of what could indicate any kind of infestation (given that they were solid wood, any penetration should have been visible to the naked eye). Not finding any, he let me continue on with my frames. But if he hadn't had a week or so off, I am quite certain I would have left frame-less and not quite as pissed as this guy has every right to feel.
Given that the inspector knew he would have had to have had the hollow tubes X-rayed to do a proper inspection followed by fumigation almost certainly led him to take the short cut and summarily destroy them. However, the fact that they were (probably) not freshly made musical instruments to anyone with a modicum of intelligence should have led the inspector to do a more detailed inspection, at an absolute minimum questioning the guy about the provenance of the wood sticks.
Its an American prerogative. Sue the hell out of them. Bring conductors and other musicians in with you. There are lots of other musical instruments that aren't made of metal: Stradivariusviolins are all made of wood, and therefore agricultural too! When the TSA or DHS or whoever the hell they are starts turning them into toothpics and firewood, not only will they (finally) lose their jobs, but the US will receive a big fucking black eye. Its not about terrorism, its about ass-hattedness. This isn't safety, this isn't security, this is about dumb-ass. This is just stupid. "I don't know what that is so I'm going to break it." They could have siezed it and told him its in a secure locker. But no, the decided to break it. Clearly they don't know from musical instruments if it bites them in the ass. But usually people carry musical instruments in a special travelling case that doesn't look like a grain shipment. They could have asked a question. Fuckups guess. Smart people inquire. The TSA or DHS or whoever the hell they are have shown which they are.
http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/266x198xboujemaa-neys-300x224.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0cUyxS4qkI.jpg
A picture of what the finished flutes (nays) looked like, and a list of what else was in the case
Boujemaa adds some specifics of the case:
What was in the case? they called Bamboo case
1) 11 nays (flutes) made by me some of them in Canada some in US
2) material to make new nays in the case
3) flight AA 0095 Madrid to JFK
4) time : 12/22/2013 (notice : on 12/23/2013)
5) Reason : nays from plants which is agricultural items (so l can’t play nay)
How is this story something that should be discussed on a technology website?
people should read more john brunner, beyond that i don't have an opinion here.
> So those too stupid for the Army are sent over to the TSA, right?
Are you saying TSA stands for The Stupid Army?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You're wrong, Will Woodhull. I do speak for you. This story is not relevant for Slashdot, even if you incorrectly believe otherwise.
President Obama responsible, the buck stops there? That's racist! You must be a jackbooted Thuglican... /sarc
Oh for the days when Presidents took responsibility for the actions of their Administrations...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
In most U.S. ports, it's not Customs that makes the decision to inspect, it's actually ICE.
In the olden days, back when I worked as a contractor for Customs, entry into the U.S. went like this:
1. You went to Immigration Control first. Pre-ICE (US Immigration Control) checked your passport and entry form, OK'd you to enter, and then you reclaimed your baggage (whether you were traveling onwards or not).
2. You then had to clear Customs, which looked at your itinerary (e.g where you'd been), your bags (i.e were they bulging, smelly, etc.) and your face and non-verbal cues to determine if you warranted a further inspection. If you did have something questionable, there were actually expert (!!!) customs agents available to determine compliance.
Today, it goes like this:
1. You go to Immigration (ICE) first. Based on your facial expressions, non-verbal cues, and passport history, they determine if (1) you're OK to re-enter the US, and (2) if you need further "assistance" with customs. They make a mark on your entry form, which you later turn in to a customs agent, to indicate if you should be further "assisted". The decision regarding inspection and possible seizure of goods is left almost entirely with ICE, who specialize not in Customs enforcement but Border Control.
2. You move on to Customs Enforcement, which looks at your ICE-noted entry form and either inspects, detains, seizes, or lets you go based on ICE notes on your entry form. If ICE didn't mark your entry form for further scrutiny, you move through Customs very quickly.
The reason for the change? Efficiency. Most people re-entering the US don't need any re-entry assistance, and Customs agents are otherwise very busy. Giving ICE the job of determining 90% of Customs work saves time for travelers and money for the government. But the downside is that most ICE agents aren't trained to sniff out the difference between a guy with handcrafted musical instruments made of foreign raw materials from a guy bringing foreign raw materials into the US with the intent of defeating embargoes and/or tariffs.
The point is, it's not Customs that are dim, it's ICE... and as long as it saves most travelers some time at the desk, it probably won't change.
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
We're fine, unless we have a Moto X with a wood back. Then, to the crusher it goes.
I consider myself a music nerd as well as a computer nerd. I have worked in audio recording engineering for a software company and have many friends who do the same. I have also worked with music software programming. Where exactly should the nerd line be drawn to appears your personal view?
Jesus god. Obama didn't do this. His 'administration' didn't do this, unless you're stupid enough to believe that each president fires every Tom, Dick and Harry working in the government. And, no, I don't believe that Obama suddenly put into place a policy that ordered that all hand made musical instruments made out of bamboo should be summarily destroyed.
I have a second cousin who plays with a big name orchestra in Denmark or somewhere, (upright bass) Anyways, he, and most other big time orchestral music people say that If you travel with your instrument, you buy a seat for yourself, and one for your instrument, and it comes on the plane with you. NEVER trust it to baggage handlers, or any other person you can't see. It never leaves your line of sight. (like the article says, that object is your living, it is your life, treat it as such.)
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
to a checked bag while traveling
Why are you afraid of Hubbard?
Well the book series "The Invaders Plan" would be a start.
I hope someone bombs the US or starts killing off our worthless leaders. This country has no honor and it's impossible to live in this shithole and still maintain any dignity. Burn it all down.
made from REEDS, not trees.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
Which would be applicable if they hadn't also destroyed his ACTUAL FLUTES. Those weren't raw materials. They didn't destroy the rest of his luggage, so it clearly wasn't a pest/sanitation issue.
By the way I feel safer travelling through Dubai than the USA.
The Arab terrorists don't tend to target the rich Gulf Arabs much - professional courtesy, and it would hurt their fundraising.
Money is not a magical wand that somehow guarantees competence--as obviously shown--and further trying to add *more* of it when it failed doesn't make much sense--unless you presume the TSA is either (a) failing to pay at least minimum wages or (b) said pay isn't enough to life off of. But that speaks more about the minimum necessary to live and actually finding *anyone* willing to work, rather than competence per se.
But, you know, carry on with the idea that money is anything other than a means of value exchange that short circuits the need for direct barter. Because I'm sure that firing people is probably next on your list of suggestions, as if it's a punishment to not continue paying for worthless activities. Unless you really think that "accountable" means anything from a legal perspective, anyways--ex post facto is really great for bureaucrats. Way too much legislation is not written with punishment included but just a presumed mandate that rules will be followed with some hand-waving of fines or presuming that people will be fired. Works for CEOs, right?
There's the bit in the summary about the flutes travelling through a lot of airports so they are likely to have passed a lot of inspections previously.
Atypically an army is only as intelligent as it's leader, this one is chocking the economy to death, nuff said.
You'd think they might come up with a better way to say they don't like the guy rather than destruction of personal property. But nope, refer to previous statement.
You don't have to be a German Nazi from the 1930-40s to be a fascist. There have been others. I suggest try looking at a dictionary instead of assuming that only Nazis were fascist. If you want to get a bit of a clue consider Italy before WWII or Greece after it.
It seems that lately people inject forms of the word bigot as an attention-grabber when the word usually is a better description of themeselves - the ones attempting to place the label on others.
If I do ever visit America again, and I can't possibly imagine why I would want to, but if I do, I'm washing any clothes that were in my bag (and subsequently meddled with, and man handled) immediately on arrival. I would also have to do a cleanse after leaving too, to get the 'merica out of my liberty tree-hugging clothes and toiletries.
cowardfully yours,
anonymous coward
Was deemed a threat to the NSA pied piper
... thought we might see some world class, monumental stupidity, like burning flutes from 2000 - 6000 BC.
So the execution of suspects and innocents has to go through the air force or xe right now outside the US or otherwise. Not really that big of a deal. Once the TSA has drones, I assume they will keep them armed and have the same rights to murder as interpreted by the executive fuhrer.
If your laptop is made of wheat, they may keep you off the plane because of some passenger's gluten intolerant anyway. But if, like mine, your laptop is made out of sweet sweet petrolium, you haven't a worry in the world. These ag-baggers won't pay your luggage any mind.
Also, seriously: laptops and other valuables go in your carryon. Luggage inspectors have fast fingers. Lost my favorite knife to one of those bastards. I wish for the day that I could carry a damned pocket knife aboard a plane again.
The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Only the rich matter.
If Fatherland Security keeps confiscating my 2-ounce bottle of hot sauce because they think it could be used as a weapon there's no way will you get a dozen half-meter long sticks through security in your carry on.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
I think there is a clear distinction between the two, but it is not apparent among the comments I've read so far. This needs to be noted.
Yup, a bunch of sticks tied together in a bundle
That sounds more like a faggot to me.
Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
Have you looked up images of kawalas and nays? They're really, really obviously flutes, there's not much doubt possible about what they might be. I can't help but notice that his flight originated in Morocco, and the TSA twits likely figured they could get away with abusing any passenger with an Arabic-sounding name.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
candygram for TSA ... candygram for TSA....
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
" I do, however, dispute its relevance here at Slashdot."
well
RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU PLAY AN INSTRUMENT !!!!
I am betting that more than half of us here do .
"I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
Paddle them all and let God sort em out.
Table-ized A.I.
It's not clear that these obviously looked like musical instruments to a person who isn't accustomed to seeing various kinds of flutes. Bundle of reeds with notches in them. Customs probably thought they were bongs.
What is clear is that ICE inspectors didn't give a flute.
They were worried about the bamboo being capable of taking root and growing, but a rooted flute is hard to toot.
Just ask Courtney Love.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
This was Customs. There was no notation from ICE on my form. The customs guy wrote on my form.
Wait... This leader is killing the economy by using a wedge or block to prevent movement? Chocking?
Oh, I see. It makes more sense if you say it while being a complete idiot.
/. has for the longest time covered articles about politics, civil rights and stupidities of the government.
This in my view isn't a story about customs protecting agriculture but rather about a civil servant removing equipment which belonged to someone and without notice or recourse destroying that equipment.
I guess it's not as fun sounding as the TSA confiscating a laptop and not having due process to get it back, but what's really the difference?
Due process is you declare them on entry, this is how every country works.
Actually, those with the lowest scores have traditionally gone into artillery, followed by quartermasters. Infantry actually scores above average.
You do understand that the 'C' in 'ICE' stands for Customs, right? Customs and la migra merged as part of the post-9/11 panic-based legislation.
Well then, explain how this article relates to science and technology. What's that? It doesn't?
Shut up then.
If you go through US customs, the tools you use to do your job may not make it with you. Like your phone, laptop, textbooks, thumb drives, or hand made wooden flutes.
Well no shit, first your bag would have to survive the airline's luggage sieve, then customs bureaucracy, THEN a few turns around the buffet line, *cough* I mean luggage carousel.
Why would someone put things they WANT in checked luggage?... is this News for Morons, Stuff that Makes Sense?
I wonder if he's gettin' kinda antsy?
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Why in the hell do we put up with such incompetence? Do we not pay enough into the TSA to not hire utter morons?
Absolutely not! TSA agents are mostly people who couldn't pass the US Postal Carrier exam. Several people I knew who were not "bulbworthy" were getting jobs at the TSA shortly after 9/11. They have a very low bar for entry.
Heartbeat? - Or may zombies actually qualify?
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
The TSA is not a single entity. Sometimes several people make mistakes in a row. "The TSA" does not make these decision; people who work for the TSA do and people make mistakes. There are many references to the fact that he has been crossing the border for several years with no problem. That would be relevant if there was only one inspector but there are hundreds. Different inspectors under different circumstances may see things differently. We also don't know the whole story. Perhaps the agricultural inspector, who's job it is to protect the US from insects, saw a bug come out of one of the flutes and overreacted.
All this righteous indignation over something that is in all probability a mistake is just stupid and a weak reason for jumping on the "bash the TSA" bandwagon. This is one incident. If it happens many time there may be an issue. I think Hanlon's razor is probably applicable here.
Wait... This leader is killing the economy by using a wedge or block to prevent movement? Chocking?
Oh, I see. It makes more sense if you say it while being a complete idiot.
Damn spelling Nazi sympathizer! [Choking /. doesn't have edit features]. In 2004 I told HP to stuff it when they wanted me to fly internationally, told them get someone from W Hollywood that enjoys getting probed or spending an entire day at the airport. I can cover 800 miles a day in my car, I have no idea how the airline industry has survived this long adding increased cost of fuel. They've rooted crypto so I.T. also appears to be an industry taking a pounding as well. Automotive industry? Not really a big seller if the people are being squeezed at every other angle. Banking and finance? Bankers took the bailout money and ran, twice. Housing? The bubble popped. It has all been a pretty good thearter of destruction, now if 9/11 brought about all this crap then we should have stayed with a surgical strike, or maybe a tactical nuke, no worries though, looks like Russia might be exploring that option.
He had to pick someone, and the geico cavemen were getting rebellious.
Funny, last time I went to the states they nearly refused to let me in because of an "Arab" stamp in my passport. Well I did fly Emirates, and I did have a free hotel in Dubai since it was a 9 hour stopover the first time.
Nearly refused, really? Or they just asked you about your last visited country, which is a routine question? (And if you filled in London for example and your passport shows entry for a day in Dubai, then it's common to ask about it.)
"I don't know what these unusual things are which I've never seen before. Should I call in the owner or should I just arbitrarily destroy them? Hmmm, decisions...."
The stupidest ones might not be best suited fot demnding front line duty, but there sure as hel lare psitions where any sign of intelligence is a bad thing.
You do understand that the 'C' in 'ICE' stands for Customs, right? Customs and la migra merged as part of the post-9/11 panic-based legislation.
So? Your luggage/goods are now first going to what used to be Immigration first an then to what used to be customs. Same result until they train the immigration people to be competent at filtering stuff they find in luggage. Classifying a bunch of flutes as 'agricultural items' and incinerating them is the worst kind of failing grade, rookie mistake.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
More than half of us do a lot of things that doesn't every news item related to them should be on /.; I travelled in a car today but I don't want to see every car 'news' story on here ;)
/. the fact that some extremely valuable items were seized and destroyed without discussion with the owner at customs is stuff that matters.
All that said, I think this story is a good one for
Well then, explain how this article relates to science and technology. What's that? It doesn't?
Shut up then.
If you go through US customs, the tools you use to do your job may not make it with you. Like your phone, laptop, textbooks, thumb drives, or hand made wooden flutes.
Right, because you might walk back out of the US with NSA secrets hidden in your wooden flute.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I've had an account at /. for over 15 years; you don't even have an account. So shut the fuck up and go to Techdirt if you don't like it. /. has never been solely about "science and technology". It's always had a very strong political part to it, and this cock up at US Customs plays to that part of the site.
Don't like it? Too bad, we won't miss you.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
It doesn't have to, you anonymous idiot.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
This is obviously wrong, but don't you think that this was caused either buy the guys last name or else because he had recently been in Morocco?
Are you saying that Shelob the giant spider is better than TSA.
Did he say he was a police officer? No he did not. So STFU.
Makes sense, not. Artillery bombards the enemy far behind the front lines. Infantry gets to meet the enemy in hand to hand combat.
Who is the smarter here? (IMO it is not smart to try to die in a war)
Yup, but them was furrin inspections. Furriners is all comnersts and tairsts. We don't trust them furriners. Number one! Number one!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Nearly refused, really? Or they just asked you about your last visited country, which is a routine question? (And if you filled in London for example and your passport shows entry for a day in Dubai, then it's common to ask about it.)
No asking about it and grilling you for half an hour then claiming they don't "buy the story" are two different thing. I get asked about all sorts of things at many airports around the world. In this case it wasn't even an airport it was a simple border crossing at Canada. I've never had so much lip service from an idiot border guard in my life. I've also never needed to announce my intention to pass into a country which freely issues tourist Visas 48 hours in advance, and I also know of no other country which staples a special piece of paper in your passport and then removes it when you leave, not to mention finger printing. Tell me again why I should carry a plane ticket showing how I got into the previous country when I go to the next one? Because that's what the border guard said I should be doing so they can "verify" my "story" about the "curtesy hotel" in one of the busiest transit hubs operated by one of the most popular airlines in the world.
I was in the USA for 10 hours, and over an hour of that was the border crossing. Land of the free my arse. The Canadian border security is quite good, with expert use of probing questions. Australia is good. Most of Europe doesn't give a shit, and neither did England last time I was there though that was a long time ago.
Coming 3.. 2.. 1..
It's sad when you can't even do a lame overused meme properly.
If they at least inspected your salt then they were better coordinated than customs at Houston when I went through there back in 2005. I told them that I'd been on farmland, but instead of disinfecting my shoes they x-rayed my suitcase.
Or did you think that the entire STASI popped out for the killings, rather than have experts and specialists for that work?
The TSA just pass the murdering on to specialists who are given a different arm to operate under.
So, no, no different.
You said atypically, so we're talking about an unusual situation, not the usual one, right?
So normally the intelligence of an army is completely unrelated to that of its[1] leader, is that what you mean? If you think the Kenyan stole the flutes, why don't you just say so?
[1] no apostrophe, see?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They probably mistook it for a skin flute and stole it.
...but I like your phrasing. In-forced, indeed.
Absolutely not! TSA agents are mostly people who couldn't pass the US Postal Carrier exam. Several people I knew who were not "bulbworthy" were getting jobs at the TSA shortly after 9/11. They have a very low bar for entry.
It's not their fault. TSA agents are just pawns in the game of life.
No sig today...
It's the word "Your" that he's unable to use correctly.
No sig today...
Hahahahahaha
Are half the people commenting here Alex Jones fans or something? "First they come for your flutes, then tomorrow it's your children!". You paranoid idiots. Get some perspective.
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Actually, it's WORSE than that. My eldest daughter went to a TSA Hiring Event. She was told she scored TOO HIGH on the qualifying exam. . .
but still tools all the same.
my direct experience was about 10 or so years back and was the confiscation and destruction of a scale model of a Shinkansen (bullet train) I bought back from Japan. the Customs note explained that they ".... believed it contained contraband food goods, specifically chocolate because some parts of Asia had incidents of bird flu" but not Japan, and why the hell they thought an official JR scale model, sealed in its box, was "chocolate" and having inspected what was obviously plastic and metal and electric motors still believed it was "chocolate" really does not speak well of the level of intelligence of these officials.
my second, indirect experience of customs incompetence was a friend who, when his band came went from Australia to tour North America, US customs confiscated and destroyed his vintage 335 Rickenbacker because it contained Brazilian rosewood on its fretboard, this despite the fact the guitar was over 40 years old, well before the ban came in to place (and technically exempt), Ironic given the that the guitar was made in the US, and had made many trips back there with its various owners over the years (the case was a veritable museum piece of stickers and tags from long gone airlines)
I think this guy should start calling lawyers and unless it can be shown that the written law requires that Preserved Plant Materials must be destroyed at the border Sue The Airport Sue the Airline and the TSA.
My question is why were the flutes not keep in holding and then shipped back (after he paid for the shipping)?
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
The stupidity of the government for the TSA or for hiring retards who are trained by retards. I think this news better make some national waves and embarrass Obama who underwrites every stupid thing as important to the safety of Americans. Personally I think that stupid Nigger should have to hunt down the rare reeds and fabricate a lifes work by hand. Then ship his sorry ass to some cotton field in Egypt, where he can fullfill his place in society.
Im tired of the world blaming the people of the several states for what our Repubmocratic dictatorship does. It has nothing to do with the will of the people of the united states. Save us!
They did the same thing to Zimmerman a few years ago; he's one of the leading concert pianists on earth. Customs took his piano and destroyed it! Clueless! http://www.omg-facts.com/Interesting/A-Famous-Concert-Pianist-Had-His-Piano-D/53381 and http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=46850
For once I can say it and it's actually probably true: you must be new around here!
It's: News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters - not, Science and Technology News for Nerds, Nothing else Matters.
Political discussions are plenty nerdy and they matter. With that said, I am a nerd and to me this matters. You must also consider the livelihood of Slashdot itself. An article like this can get 500+ comments, a pop-sci article gets 100 - 200 comments, ultra-pure hard-core science stories top off at 50 comments. Slashdot needs a balance and by your story posting logic, this place would be a ghost town. Get over yourself.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Police state instruments such as the Gestapo, Stasi, and many others of more modern history understand that the technology is not the most feared nor the most useful tool.
Instead, make it law for everyone to watch and inform on everyone.
Teachers inform on children who have repeated what spouses have said in private confidence.
Neighbors inform on neighbors, and those who fail to corroborate get a visit in the small hours of the night.
No one is safe saying anything to anyone.
The security organizations don't need technology to record what actually is being communicated; they simply assume that wrong things are being said and arrest, detain, and make people disappear on a regular basis. Much cheaper than what the NSA does and much more effective at keeping people in line.
No massive and expensive data centres. No embarrassing questions from political hacks. Just a wonderfully useful way to employ the sociopaths who would otherwise be busy with unapproved antisocial behaviour.
. . . and the streets become very safe.
I can verify that. I worked with a slow-headed veteran, pre 9/11, who quit and hired on to the TSA.
A simple soul with a good heart and work ethic. He became so disgusted with the TSA , he quit after 2 months.
He was tired of seeing old ladies hassled and normal people reduced to tears, while obvious Muslims waltzed through, unscathed.
Even he could see the total crap that made up the widespread philosophy of Hillarys Political Correctness promoted by the Repubmocrat regeim at the time.
I cant believe that ignorant cunt ran the country and may try again. What gall!
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Parent is wrong, this was CBP, not ICE. CBP secures the boarder, ICE is law enforcement/investigations inside the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Customs_and_Border_Protection
I just spotted your post, beneath a reply I was leaving and couldnt help but notice the irony.
My uncle did testing for police dept.s over several states.
If you crossed a minimal threshold for intelligence, you were excluded from hiring. No SHIT!
If you are smart, they dont want you. Smart people tend to think for themselves and make judgement calls.
Police have no desire to hire individuals with these qualities.
This has been going on for decades.
Further, deviations in the MMPI battery of tests, were ignored and merely kept on file in our county. We hire the unstable as well, here, as evidenced this year by 3 cases of jailers raping inmates (all male). A fourth case in a nearby county , as well. A rash (more than 5) of drownings of people running from cops over a 3 month period in separate cases. A conviction of a training officer from the local cop school, for murdering his wife, with the kids in the house, then burning the house to cover it up. And of course the usual stories of police corruption found everywhere.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
If some gluten-intolerant passenger eats your laptop, he (and the other passengers) have even bigger problems than Customs.
I mean, seriously, I would never give stuff like that away to be handled by packet tossers (not only because of customs, but also because of accidential damage). I would always carry it in my hand luggage.
Well, that's because the USA is steadily getting more evil.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
Paper departure records are starting to die out and be replaced by computer records, but they were very common outside of Europe up until recently. The staple is so you don't lose it, admittedly I've only encountered that in US and Japan, most other countries just slip it into your passport.
depends on how valuable....err dangerous to import and must be obliterated without documentation...your items are.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
Hey, Corbett W., what's your full name? What's your full home address? What is the name and address of your spouse, if you have one? What are the names and addresses (last known, if they're deceased) of your parents? You'd better provide this information, otherwise to us you'd just be some sort of an "anonymous idiot". Oh, and please provide us with scans or copies of all of your tax records and employment records, too. You've got nothing to hide, right? You don't believe in anonymity, right? So we can expect to have this information available to us within a day. Remember, if you don't provide it, you're just a no good Anonymous Coward.
So he would rather reduce "obvious Muslims" to tears ?
Get slapped down. If you don't show he's actually violated a rule (rules to raw materials don't apply to finished products) then you're just being a fucktard.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
When do people finally learn to avoid the US? You don't want to be a foreigner there, because you practically have no rights (and you will be harassed if you're not a white person). You also don't want to do business with the US, because your data will be stolen and used against you. We're trying to avoid US services more and more. Our government investigates a 'national cloud' to avoid these issues.
You put up with it because (for the most part) it doesn't affect you. It's well documented how little the average American travels, much less travels out of the US, so "the majority" aren't that fussed about it. Further, as an American you get a little extra priority getting through the border controls. For all of us foreigners, and for those Americans that look like foreigners, we have to put up with all the morons you hire for border control. It's a good reason for the rest of us not to come to the US, or transit through it. Shame really, there are some good things to see and do in the US, either on a trip or on a few-hours-stop-over.
As a frequent traveler I've found that the first line of defense is to not check anything important. For some stuff, like liquid or knives, you don't have a choice, but otherwise I keep my valuables close. Between ham-fisted baggage handlers and bone-headed bureaucrats I want the chance to at least argue if they're going to do something stupid with anything more valuable than my dirty socks. In fact, I generally manage to get everything into my carry-ons and rarely check anything at all.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
While I do empathize with him, it is quite possible he is in the wrong and CBP is OK. Specifically, if he did not declare them for inspection, the CBP is likely in the right for finding and dealing with them in a secondary inspection. Note that he connected through NY and it was only in Boston where he found them missing. Likely he did not declare them while transiting through NY and they were caught in the screening after he went through the CBP an rechecked his bags. Unfortunate, however, if I were traveling with expensive items, I would make sure I knew and followed the proper procedure. Now, the article is short on details so there is a lot of speculation involved so we cannot know exactly who is in the right here.
A quick search turned up:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1166
To Quote:
Can I bring or send an item made from wood to the U.S.? What if the object has feathers or bone?
Finished, manufactured, or naturally weathered products including carvings, driftwood, furniture, picture frames, and musical instruments, and plywood are allowed into the U.S., but you need to declare them so the items can be inspected by CBP. Wood that has bark attached is prohibited from China and is subject to a higher level of inspection from all countries (Miscellaneous and Processed Products Manual, Table 3-161, Pages 152-154)
Objects that have feathers are allowed if the objects are fully finished and the feathers are clean, dry, and free of skin. (APHIS Animal Product Manual, Table 3-7-13, Page 272)
Bones that are fully finished and ready to use such as buttons, knife handles, and souvenirs are allowed as are tanned hides of domestic species (APHIS Animal Product Manual, Table 3-4-6, Page 218 and Table 3-7-3, Page 262)
APHIS Animal Product Manual can be found at aphis.usda.gov.
Please note that all items made from wood, feathers, or bone may also be subject to endangered species regulations. See our Q&A entitled: Endangered species, CITES, endangered wildlife, plants, exotic skins, animals Answer ID 64.
If you wish to receive automatic updates to this Q&A, select "Subscribe to Updates" on the left side of this screen.
The next time you're rooting for another new government program that you hope will allow you to shed some more of your personal responsibility, remember this story. When you keep supporting politicians and policies aimed only at growing the size and power of the government, you end up with stories like this, and like the NSA spying, and like the roadside gloveless anal cavity searches, and crashed MRAPs on the I-10.
If you want the madness to stop, you have to start taking responsibility for yourself, and telling the government that you've finally decided that you know how to live your life and take care of yourself better than the government does.
The irony is that most of the posters attacking the USA, calling them Nazis (as in Godwin's Law) and vowing never to visit, refuse to reveal their home countries. At least some of the AC's in response, have identified themselves as citizens of the USA.
Cowards without a country (nor a real name), that's pretty low.
This is not a police state: it's plain fascism. Don't get fooled by word games.
In a police state the police still serve, this is not the case in the US.
With facsism the enforcement system has become the ruler. The "police" does not serve the law but are "the law". The US has already gone beyond this simple fascism.
Your congress does not matter. Your president does not matter. Your courts do not matter. Your meatbags with badges do not matter. Your weapons do not matter. Your money does not matter. Your knowledge, proficiency, talent, experience and creativity does not matter. Your righteousness does not matter. Your dreams do not matter. Your situation does not matter. Your intent does not matter. Your complaints do not matter. Your likes and dislikes do not matter. Your opinion does not matter. Your death does not matter. Justice does not matter. Freedom does not matter.
This new beast already has a blasphemous name. People call it "America". All of humanity lives under its shadow now.
Feel free to call it Babylon. It does not matter.
Ah, the moron "Pseudonyms aren't any better" brigade. Ignoring the fact the comment was pointing out idiocy, not anonymity as a subject of derision.
I wish more people knew this. I have known for years that there is a maximum threshold of intelligence to be a city cop. Unfortunately, so many people assume that cops are well screened and intelligent. They must not talk to many cops. The reality is the entire system is designed to encourage jack booted thugs.
And sold on eBay. I bet he didn't even check eBay.
"So those too stupid for the Army are sent over to the TSA, right?"
--
No, they go to Congress.
No brain, no pain.
You sir, do not understand what the term "due process" means.
You toss phrases like "obvious Muslim" out there and then turn around and call someone an ignorant cunt? I almost choked on my tea.
Are you a troll or just an ignorant cunt?
Why would anyone want to come to this country anyhow?
Blah blah internet libertarian retard.
There is no difference between big government and big business. We could privatise the whole government tomorrow and give it an ownership interest in all US soil, and effectively nothing would change. Even if the whole US customs service were privatised, the contract you agree to when flying through the US would include a little, "You accept that we can take and resell^Wdestroy anything," clause, and what are you gonna do about it, punk? Private postal/courier services ruin shit way more often than public, except perhaps in Italy, and they're just as good at finding a reason not to pay out, because, well, their 20 pages of small print is more carefully written than your understanding, and even if it isn't, go ahead: take them to court.
There is either power or a power vacuum quickly filled. The only question is who holds the power. The problem here is bad government.
To the rest of the world... it's important.
It proves to us over and over again that we must stop buying USA technology, avoiding the USA cloud, routing around the USA Stasi ^h^h^h^h^h NSA and avoid visiting.
I welcome our new Slashdot overlords to print TSA article after article, as only that was have we any hope of reclaiming technology from the most evil race on the planet in the last 60ish years.
maybe not incompetence or fascism, maybe its just greed.
You make the false assumption that we either have to give all our power to the government or to "big business." I advocate neither of those. Reclaim your power as an individual; that's the only place that power comes from to start with.
Customs has very clear restrictions on bring in plants, timbers, etc and obviously they felt the raw flute making materials qualified under those restrictions.
Customs says
Some plants, cuttings, seeds that are capable of propagation, unprocessed plant products and certain endangered species are allowed into the United States but require import permits and other documents; some are prohibited entirely.
Notice the phrases "capable of propagation" and "unprocessed." Are you arguing that a varnished length of reed with mouthpiece and finger holes cut in it, probably wrapped carefully in cloth and placed in a case, could reasonably be mistaken as a cutting capable of propagation? Because I'm pretty sure the reason this is a story is specifically because none of the rest of us think that one could mistake a flute-shaped piece of wood as an incipient tree. A flute seems almost as likely to sprout roots as a baseball bat and as reasonably classified as an "agricultural product."
I don't see anything about the article that claims to be science and technology. Its waving the US flag in the corner of the summary and therefore is about things in or by the US. Notably, this site is "News for Nerds" not "science and math only."
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Agreed. Been here a while myself.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
The whole point of affirmative action is to *NOT* hire the best candidate.
Notably, if he'd stop surfing anonymously, Slashdot has a feature to hide articles of types that you don't find interesting.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
google "hemlock wooly adelgid" or "emerald ash borer". no sympathy for people who attempt to import agricultural products without the proper documentation. and if any of those flutes were made from endangered species, the guy deserves prison time. How hard is it to fill out the proper forms when you're importing potentially restricted items?
I can't comment about your specific state but, tin hats aside, the police ARE expected to use some intelligence and make judgment calls.
Looking at NYPD who are notorious and noteworthy all the same. Part of the police test/interview they will ask something like "if you pulled your mother over for speeding what would you do/would you give her a ticket".
Yes is the wrong answer. You're *expected* to use your judgment and enforce laws to the best effect, not the strict letter. If giving mom a dirty look and asking her why she'd do something so silly while you're on duty would make her drive safer...that's far more useful than writing a ticket. Same reason cops look the other way over lots of stupid chickenshit stuff.
With that said I fully understand no one would write their mother a ticket because cops wink wink nudge nudge...but the underlying point stands.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Fifteen years? Frickin' hell.. Has it been that long?
sounds like the t-bagger rants about jack-booted govt oppression, but somehow i doubt they'll support a moroccan:-[
i'm webmaster for bostoncamerata.org, the medieval music group mr. razgui has performed with:
http://bostoncamerata.org/blog/over-a-quarter-of-a-million-people-have/
If I had anything that was "my life" I damn well wouldn't put it into checked luggage. It would be in carryon, highly protected AND insured.
So, did he have $10,000 insurance for "his life"?
He travels more than I. I only spend about 2 months overseas annually, on vacations. When I travel, especially overseas, my check luggage has clothes and power adapters that can easily be replaced. Nothing "important." I say this as someone who has never lost any luggage during travel - only once did my bag not arrive with me during air travel and once on a bus (don't get me started). Besides that. my bags arrive when I do, amazing after 25-40 hrs of travel, let me assure you. Just for fun, figure out how to get from your home town to Pohkara, Nepal and think about the chances for baggage to be lost.
The irony is that most of the posters attacking the USA, calling them Nazis (as in Godwin's Law) and vowing never to visit, refuse to reveal their home countries
Irony how? And you do know that all that Godwin's law states is that as a discussion goes on, the likelihood of mentioning Nazis, Nazi Germany, etc increases - and that it is only the corollary that actually attempts to make use of the law to set forth any judgements - illogically too, IMO - about such uses?
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Did your MOS start with an 11 or a 35?
That customs person needs to be fired.
last time i checked, wood/bamboo/reeds etc are agricultural products. when you don't declare things to customs and fill out the proper forms, that's called smuggling. guy deserved what he got, end of story. the u.s. is bound by international treaties in such matters.
I know, it's crazy. I started hanging out here before my oldest son was born; he'll be 16 next month. I finally got a login around that time. One of my life's regrets is not getting one as soon as I found the site, it probably would've been a five-digit one.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
I never thought I'd see it, but here it is: two legs good, four legs better. Amazing. Someone insists that Slashdot is a politics site and moreover has been all along, when prior to CmdrTaco's retirement it never really went for politics. Now, there are plenty of mainstream politics stories with no tech connection. It wasn't always like this. But Orwell would have wrote it if it weren't true.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I pick things up and take them away.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Yes. 11B. Infantry. I turned down a full ride to Michigan State to enlist in the army. Despite an ASVAB score that meant I could choose any MOS that I wanted, I chose Infantry. I even chose the maximum enlistment period (six years). My basic training had a population mix of high school graduates, GED holders, enlisted NCOs from other MOSes that wanted to switch to Infantry, college drop-outs, and a couple college graduates.
Several years later, I got an early out of my enlistment to attend USMA, and finally got a college degree. Several of my classmates were also former Infantrymen. During my tenure at West Point, I saw other Infantrymen attend, some of them decorated veterans; one a medal of honor recipient.
There are stupid people in all walks of life; having an 11 or 35 designator doesn't make you one.
Do you declare any natural fibres in your clothing? The leather in your suitcase or your watch band?
If your bottles of hot sauce can't be used as a weapon then it really isn't hot sauce. Considering the stuff I have walked through with it is really a crap shoot, my old SLR camera with the metal body 20 questions, wipe for explosives, and off to get patted down. A handful of shotgun shells forgotten in a coat pocket sent through the x-ray machine walk right through unaware.
Time to offend someone
It is illegal to bring untreated wood into the US because of invasive insects
GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
"as an American, you get a little extra priority getting through border controls".
I call bullshit on that.
I'm an American, I travel internationally at least once a year.EVERY time I've hit customs in the US, the lines have been seriously longer for US citizens than visiting foreign citizens.Probably because that's the largest group of people passing through US border control.
I contrast this to the countries in Asia I usually visit, where what you state is completely true. Especially Japan.
Just last year, flying to Canada: Into Canada, Canadian line shorter, "other" line longer.
Flying back to US: US line longer, "Other" line super short. I get jacked on both ends.
I wouldn't expect Customs to apply rules for agricultural products overbroadly to electronic devices. The one situation does not inform the other in this case.
Amen!
So you're alleging now that the TSA isn't part of the Department of Homeland Security, part of the Executive Branch of the Federal Government?
No, those are the ones too stupid for TSA.
I have a British friend who once traveled through Korea, stayed one day, and left. My friend had bought a lot of deodorant, since she was living Japan, and couldn't get any there that she liked there.
When going through Korean customs, she actually had the customs agent tell her, in English, that she was confiscating all her deodorant because she wanted it. She then went on to explain that if she complained, she would miss her flight and possibly be put in jail.
Don't put important stuff in your checked luggage such as flutes that you earn your livelihood with. At least if you have them in your hand luggage you can put up an argument. Maybe you'd have to go so far as returning to your country of origin rather than submit to having them confiscated, but at least you'd still have them. Not to mention the possibility of having stuff stolen by the baggage inspectors; there have been plenty of those sorts of stories.
Seriously? He's an idiot. Maybe some Federal agency should rendition his ass, then he'd know what horrible really is.
"I've never written letters to people". Baby Jesus weeps.
Captcha: redneck. You just can't make this shit up.
I wasn't aware that Obama created the TSA, hired all the agents, personally wrote and oversaw their policies. Of course, we're talking about Customs, not TSA. Who are also part of Homeland, but I'm /pretty/ sure they significantly predate the Obama adminstration.
My wish for you is that you get everything you deserve.
Great letter and spunk is abundant also in others of your age group--not just the "young punks" getting outted by uniformed idiots! Even my 85 yr. old mom's behaving like a worked up member of the cast of "Network" and I'm proud of her! Everyone's waking up to noise, lies, chemtrail smog spread like jam on our GMO tainted grain belt. Our elders now paint signs of impending relief for our struggle's victory, even as they're incarcerated for doing so. Thank you for your lucid reflection and thrive on another couple of decades, will ya? We need your spirit!
"i'm webmaster for bostoncamerata.org, the medieval music group mr. razgui has performed with:"
Unforch, I surmize you are 200% correct. But I would like to thank you for bringing yet another of our "governments" (insert laff track here(but push wrong button & get sob track instead)) completely arbitrary, and asinine to me, abuses of power.
I have no clue how long it will take him to replace those, but I hope he can. Unfortunately I'd also imagine we will never again get to hear him, in any US venue. I sure as hell would never again set foot on US soil, for any reason.
Cheers, Gene
*cough* *cough* soma
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I have bamboo fiber underwear. Very soft, breathes well and durable.
Should I declare my underwear to get it destroyed... ridiculous!
I've been thinking of them as the "Transportation Stupidity Agency" since they came into existence.
So, in your weird little world, if a new boss is hired at a company, and his employees do something stupid which costs the company business and customers, he shouldn't fire them because their division was around before he was hired, even though he's their boss?
You Obamabots really are a stupid lot.
In this message I admit I'm basically a schlep.
Our local Taco Bell, which is a frequent hessian dining facility, has excellent management and attracts top of the line fast food workers.
They're not all interchangeable.
Unlike the sullen zombies at our local Burger King, McDonald's and KFC (but not Subway, Starbucks or Taco Cabana, which are also well managed) these workers have a positive attitude, seem to not mind the job, and are genuinely helpful and do a good job of making the food.
The difference is management, which is both realistic about the nature of people and the nature of the job. The TB managers eliminate a lot of busywork and keep their staff active at a reasonable pace but don't push them too far. I see managers jump in and make food all the time.
I don't think every fast food worker is this way -- see above for the description of the zombies at BK and McD's -- but for some, with good management and possibly higher salaries, this works out for the better.
As far as why someone might take this job, the simple answer is that it is low-stress and inoffensive. You can make enough money to live without ever having something that keeps you up at night worrying.
Futurist Traditionalism
Most other countries have abolished the process in favour of stamping the passport, you know the thing the passport was designed for?
Why do I need a separate piece of paper for the USA which contains, all the things in the front of my passport + the date which is normally written onto the passport stamp, and why should I then need to carry it inside my passport?
Who came up with this system? The department of redundancy department?
Quite a lot of stuff comes from natural products... shoes, jackets etc. are leather... that agricultural too? Methinks not... this is just overreaction and bureaucratic letter-following by thick people, "The flow chart told me I should destroy them...". And the sad thing is that they'll be protected by it. I eagerly await the next Van Gogh to be destroyed on entry "because some of the paints have egg albumen in them".
Is this real ..happening in most advanced country of the world..Please stop this nonsense US
No. Army has learned that a test can determine what role is best. Those with low scores are given bullet catcher infantry roles. Those that score best are given roles that are more mentally demanding like nuclear submarine engineer. It's not IQ, but it does say a lot about what kind of mental tasks a soldier can complete.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
More likely "Too Stupid (for) Army".
Agreed, been a reader for around 15 years only recently started posting, it's the wide scope of articles no matter how loosely based on the slashdot tagline that keeps me coming back. dont like it, dont read it. easy.
You are not going to see an ICE agent at the airport unless you are really really bad. They handle deport ions of illegal aliens who have been here awhile and several other functions. The customs and immigration functions at the airport are handled by CBP Officers while agriculture (meat, plant, dairy products, etc) are handled by Agriculture specialists. TSA is an entirely separate agency but both are under Department of Homeland Security, as is the Coast Guard, Secret Service, FEMA, ICE and several others.
Hmmm, do you work for Customs by any chance? Might explain your post.
Well, yes, of course. we have a minimal requirement of intelligence and judgement, or we would never be able to cross the street with any certainty of safety. We have to be able to tell if food is spoiled. Simple things that allow us to maneuver our environment. When we begin increasing the intelligence factor, we also increase the creative and analytical factors. This allows us to make judgements based on philosophy and personal preference. An apparent lack of peers fosters a situation where a superior mind can feel free to act independently. In order to create a more ideal situation, we would need a majority of superior minds to peer and wind up with a problem like herding cats, unless those in charge are also required to meet higher benchmarks.
Sooooo, in the end, rather than raise the standards for a standard issue policeman, due to the price it would command. We fill the squadcars with the most abundant livestock available. The common shmoe. Oh we still screen them for honesty and purity over and above the MMPI. Have you ever had a confrontation where you felt vindicated in destroying your foes property? , can net you tales of slashed tires or keyed paintjobs, revenge sex and even theft. Naturally that is the end of the line for the candidate. But sometimes a smart one slips throught, gets his stride and makes the news.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Personally, I do believe in anonymity.
But I don't believe that the opinion of an anonymous idiot carries any particular weight.
If you say something worth reading, that might be different. If you've *ever* said anything worth while, that might buy you some slack. But how would we know?
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
I think he would rather have given equal treatment to all and be effective.
The mindset exemplified by your question is the same Clintonization that brought us paradoxially ineffective methods of security under the auspices of being politically correct.
I suppose if youre not part of the solution, youre part of the problem.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Uhm, yeah, thats not working out so well.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Im an obvious Muslim, teabagging you.
While there are Muslims out there, you couldnt tell from a Wiccan, there are still many who publicly wear burqua in the U.S.
This makes it obvious you ignorant cunt. Kinda chickenshit of you to call me out as an A.C.
"Dood. Thass a plant"
"No my good sir, these are musical instruments..."
"It look like wood. It agreekulturel. We destroy."
"no. No! I have labored many hours on rare reeds to create this magnificent instruments."
"Reed is wood. We take. Must destroy."
Welcome to Idiocracy.
Or something like that.
Periscopes don't usually look around corners That would be gonoscopes.
We're from the government, and we're here to help.
Funny, last time I went to the states they nearly refused to let me in because of an "Arab" stamp in my passport.
You are simply lying.
REALLY?????? OMG
I am 73, and do not look like an 18 year old. I purchased a case of beer in Vermont, and at the cash they asked me to prove that I am older than 18. What ever happened to common sense? Did common sense die with the George Bush era?
The lad had to enter a birthday into the computer system. Wow. What was wrong with 2 January 1900. That would make me 114 and I could then safely take home that case of Bud. I could however buy super toxic cigarettes without a second thought from the cashier.
Hey Vermont, wake up and teach common sense in the schools.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
They are not stupid in the way you think, they intend to destroy our USA. We are infidels in need of destruction.
I know this is an old thread, but the truth about this finally comes out.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/musician-s-bamboo-flutes-destroyed-at-u-s-customs-1.2482370
The relevant part of the article is here:
"But the border agency told As It Happens that it "discovered fresh green bamboo canes approximately three to four feet long" in unclaimed baggage that belonged to Razgui. Fresh bamboo is prohibited from entering the U.S., the agency said.
Since the purported "fresh bamboo" and Razgui's instruments were in the same container, he lost his entire collection of 13 flutes—and with them, his livelihood."
So he was transporting his flutes plus fresh green bamboo in the same case. The entire thing was his fault and not that of customs officials.
Inflating it beyond that and getting hysterical is childish.
Predictable knee-jerk reactions aside, the US Dept. of Ag. has a serious job to do, and preventing invasive species from destroying the North American ecosystem IS part of that job.
As other sensible people have pointed out, this is an issue of the system being flawed, addressing the specific flaw and fixing it should be the focus.
Not acting like this is an example of the police state we live in when there are much more serious and profound examples of it all around us that hardly anybody is talking about.
Holding this up as an example of THAT is actually a much greater problem than this specific rare and unfortunate incident.
I hope attorneys and engineers step-up to offer assistance to Mr. Razgui, I can't imagine a more interesting project than assisting him in replicating and replacing the destroyed instruments.
How did the guy pass the customs separately from his luggage?
Check out where the saudi reigious police get their training. I have heard that in the early days of private contractor TSA it was similar. If you want to actually try to solve that particular problem without being yourself a worse problem...
Don't worry. He was obviously British. Drinking tea and coming late to the party.
Correct. Neither is the GATB. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- "SATAN, SATAN! It's the main megafurnace! She's losin' power and the temperature is dropping fast! I'm not sure if I can hold her!" -- Scotty in Hell
The world is now safer that terrorist woodwinds have been stopped in their tracks.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
To be fair, US customs and TSA are two separate agencies.
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. It's working swimmingly for the fascists in charge.
Yes, it is. it contains a measure of 'g' (general IQ) as well as several other dimensions.
As this story spreads you can bet a battalion of Attorney types gathering. What I find most disturbing, under logic like this A Stradivarius is also an agricultural product, Remember the former Nazi quote "I was just following orders"......once again common sense proves to be uncommon, Just My Take,,,
"In Every Life The Time Comes To Grab The Bull By The Tail And Face The Situation" W.C.Fields
You really should have more respect for fast food workers.
Especially when you look at Not Always Right and see what $#!+ they have to go through.
In the war on terror, "smart," high-precision, low-yield weapons are used. There are certainly civilian casualties, as you point out, but the number of civialian casualties is orders of magnitude lower than in World War II, when the U.S. intentionally firebombed large residential neighborhoods in Germany and Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo )
Given that information, I have a few questions for you.
Tom Brokaw wrote a famous book about the WWII generation titled "The Greatest Generation." Do you agree with Brokaw's characterization? Do you believe the current generation of warriors is even greater than the WWII generation, because it kills orders-of-magnitude fewer civilians? Why or why not? If current tactics amount to "U.S. indiscriminant killing of civilians," how would you characterize the tactics used in WWII? Will future generations of Afghans and Yemenis hate America less than current generations of Japanese and Germans do, because of the far-less-deadly tactics used today? Why or why not?
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Mistakes are made by all sides, in every war. To the extent that an organization feels ashamed of its mistakes, it is likely to attempt coverups as well. (There's no need to cover it up, if you have no remorse about it.) By characterizing this as a "great" story, you seem to revel in, or celebrate, the mistakes made by our side.
To the extent that the story is true, I would call it a "tragic" story, not a "great" story.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
So you've already forgotten that 9/11 happened under Bush. As I recall it Bushes tampering with the FBI anti terrorist division was blamed as one of the things that allowed 9/11 to happen. Political correctness is annoying yes but both parties were/are equally guilty surely.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
He hand made them himself. Knew how each one sounded, felt and fitted his hand. He then hand crafted the reeds using special wood and who knows how or when he will get more. Lets just hope he was coming off a tour and has time to replace those one of a kind flutes each carved one at a time.
We've all had our projects we took pride in. How would you like it if you got home and found a note on your door saying We destroyed it, call or write for more information and wait months for any answers.
Dont mistake me for a Repubmocrat. I wouldnt have anything to do with the ONLY party responsible for 9/11. Sorry , still no case for political correctness.
Your mislaid point earns you a bunny. http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/400pancake_bunny.jpg
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
And later a parting on the right will be a parting on the left and the beers grown warmer over night.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
still believed Slashdot was worth reading...
past tense intended.
Sent from my ENIAC
Do you find asking people 'Can I super size that for you' is just far too hard to remember, is 'Hi welcome to Walmart' just too intellectually challenging for you, good news TSA and now the US Customs Service have a career path to senior management for you.
So, to curb 'illegal deforestation' these bright sparks encouraged it because he now needs to take the resources required to make some more. Smart move there.
Who are you?
which costs the company business and customers
Please explain how the actions of this employee do either.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
Hu Woo.
Hu Woo, who, who?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Don't even know what agricultural is
If his instruments were his life and he is a virtuoso musician, he would have kept his flutes with him on the airplane.
tempus fugit
Stop being insulting to rocks. I study them more closely than most people and I understand their vivid and distinct characters and behaviours better than most people do. They'd be deeply upset to be compared to these "customs officers", whose customs seem to be those of boorish thuggish humans, not like restrained thoughtful rocks.
When was the last time that you met a rock that would take this sort of action without thinking about it for a millennium or several?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Bravo... may all of us be as capable as you, and posting gems like this to Slashdot, at age 79. I mean, being able to spell hyaluronan correctly is, in and of itself, quite a feat.
It's been said that one way to ensure good behavior of all passengers is to issue a piece to every adult passenger. Would having a few amateur air marshals on every flight prevent more trouble than it causes? Finding out would be a good experiment.
Now if I may pick your brain... is there some inexpensive signal strength meter I can carry with me up onto the roof when pointing a residential TV antenna? As I understand it, the pros use fancy, expensive spectrum analyzers. Is there a sub-$100 solution that you can recommend?
(I'm a fan of taking advantage of those free over-the-air signals. It's surprising how many people aren't even aware that those signals are there for the taking... they seem to think that when the cable-TV networks were built out decades ago, over-the-air broadcasts were discontinued.)
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I've had an account at /. for over 15 years; [. . .] /. has never been solely about "science and technology". It's always had a very strong political part to it, and this cock up at US Customs plays to that part of the site.
15 years? ... Newbie.
(but I agree with you. Some people just need to relax a little.)
McFly777
- - -
"What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
n00b
"It's expensive, stupid, last only seconds - but makes your mouth hurt for days - it's BEE IN A BALLOON" - Kibo 3/1/95
I think it is more the Khagra beetle, and the Khagra Reed (Phragmites Karka). The beetle likes grain plants as much as reeds.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
They are hired specifically because they are idiots. It is much easier to control and/or convince an idiot than it is to explain yourself to someone with half a brain. It's scarier to think the half brained people are the smart ones.
You do NOT need to be a victim of these federal morons. The fact that they were so utterly stupid that they do not know that many woodwind instruments have REEDS that are made from PLANTS. If you find a very good attorney you may be able to obtain a very huge monetary settlement given the quality and rarity of these instruments. PLEASE talk with many musicians with whom you have performed. You should certainly be able to obtain the names of a number of very high quality attorneys.
What I find utterly enraging is reading the comment sections that are filled with posts made by Americans who seem to be utterly unable to focus on an article or story and provide an on target response. You friggin morons go off in 45 different directions as soon as one person posts something you take issue with.
What a bunch of brain dead opinionated poorly educated losers.
Are you saying TSA stands for The Stupid Army?
And I always thought it meant Travel Suppression Agency