Do this (Ksomething) Do this (Ksomething) Do this (Ksomething) Do this (Ksomething)
I've run KDE on my Gentoo-based laptop installation for people. They look for app names. "Where's the word processor?" I tell them to look for the functional description, but then everyone looks for different things. "Write a paper." "Word processor." "Paper writer."
Either way, you're having to memorize the description referring the app--app name or the arbritrary description the KDE developers chose. People remember unique titles better than a bunch of multiple-word descriptions.
I just don't see the following two things:
1.) Why it's so hard to not use a K-prefix before every single thing--it looks completely amateurish and "hackerish." KDE itself is a horrible name, but it's ridiculous with entire changelogs consisting of "K-" prefixes.
2.) Why the obsession begins in the first place, like a bad programmers' attempt at being cute with their app name in IRC. "Ooh, we'll call our picture gallery 'Kallery'!" "LOL!" "rofl" "lets do it"
Those "scathing reviews" need to be listened to. Compare a screenshot of KDE and apps with a screenshot of, say, OS X with apps and see the difference. They're about 20 years of desktop design experience apart.
I always find it amusing when people bitch about Eugenia's review of widgets and such, when meanwhile newbies are always pointing out how ugly Linux is. Most people try to point to www.kde-look.org as some sort of retort, which is just a bunch of even uglier desktops with horrible colors that look great in a static shot but could not be used all day without a headache.
From your post, it seems you are a KDE fan and that is good, but don't bash others just because they don't choose to use that system. I don't use it because it so slooooooow and has an extremely cramped interface. Way too many buttons going on.
None of that matters when it takes 10 seconds to load anything, and 5 just to open your Home folder. Not to mention 25,000 items on one K Menu all starting with K, and 100,000 items in Control Center.
Gnome works just fine and--gasp--is actually responsive and snappy. KDE wants more sidebar buttons with every release, because when you look at the code, there is a lot of unoptimized C++ going on.
* The 5-10 second load-time for KDE apps * The 4 second load time just to open a folder * The cramped and embarrassing K menu, with a 100 different groups and completely illogical redundancies like "Preferences," "System Settings," and "Control Center" * The poor naming scheme that--despite close to five years of bitching--hasn't been changed in favor of something sane * The convoluted Control Center that is an example of poor interface design with 3,000 items and subitems, grouped together under a cursor that for some reason won't stop changing to the hand icon * The fact that the cursor changes to a hand icon when it moves over taskbar buttons (cursor changes are confusing, disorienting, and annoying to newbies and power users alike) * The fact that when you tell KDE to put application menus at the top like MacOS, it defeats the whole purpose by not registering a click if you have the cursor all the way to the top--apparently, there is a pixel of space between the top of the screen and the menu. Mac users are used to slamming the cursor all the way to the top and clicking, which is faster than slowing the cursor and pinpointing a menu in a floating window like in Windows * The seeming need for every new version of KDE to add five more sidebars, buttons, and features to KPanel/Konquerer/anything else beginning with K, instead of cleaning the interface and making things faster
I could go on and on. I don't get why it is so slow. Windows XP does NOT take so long to load, say, a window. And I despise Windows in general. Yet Windows gets bashed for being bloated, and yet KDE is readily accept despite being slower and more bloated than Windows itself. It's the double-standard, and though some may label me a troll for pointing it out, nonetheless it is my opinion and you're welcome to disagree.
Because time after time, people point out how 100% stupid the naming scheme is, yet it never changes.
It will never be taken seriously with a name like "KDE" and 100 apps all starting with "K."
People mention Gnome apps, but like I said, only a few on my Gnome menu start with G. Everything else is Abiword, Evolution, Epiphany (or Galeon), etc. ACTUAL NAMES.
But to everyone else, seriously, compare a screenshot of KDE with open apps to a screenshot of OS X with open apps. It's like night and day. We gotta work on an attractive and intuitive interface.
Has anybody taken a look at the Gnome HIG? They're great, even specifying seemingly mundane aspects such as the amount of pixels between an alert icon and text message on a popup dialog box.
These things do matter, whether consciously or not, to users.
...for catching up to Gnome and its focus on usability. 2.6 is due out this month.
KDE 3.2 was great, but it *still* takes 4 seconds to open my Home folder when I double-click it on the desktop. This after compiling it on my laptop for a total of 14 hours. The interface is way to convoluted for me, making configurability a real pain in the ass.
Gnome is just snappier for me, and much cleaner.
This isn't meant to be a troll. Just offering my opinion on why I don't use KDE--an opinion as valid as all the people chiming in about why they *do* use it.
If you want a usable interface, use Gnome. A simple Applications menu and Actions menu at the top by default.
KDE wants one huge, super-long list with absolutely redundant things like Settings, System, Preferences, and then thirty-thousand other menus seperated by bars.
And then within each group, a "More Programs" link for some bizarre reason.
And then you fire up Control Center and there are 100,000 items to choose from, and the cursor always changes to that awful hand icon with the finger that's too long. Cursor changes are confusing to users and diorients them. The cursor also changes for some reason on taskbar buttons.
KOffice Killustrator Kougar Kroupware Kaller y KTetris...and pretty much anything else obsessively beginning with "K" for absolutely no reason. Thank god Gnome isn't like this.
Because there are still bitter Slashdotters who hate that a program that let them conveniently pirate every album under the sun was taken away and replaced with something legitimate. Anything involving Napster is news, even the fact that it's not really the Napster we remember anymore.
Which is silly, of course, since other formats like DXi in Windows also exist. As if a specific plug-in format, i.e. VST, is somehow superior to others. It's just a connection API. The audio quality isn't magically better or anything.
You're "DJ friends" can keep on using VST forever while everyone else moves on.
It's great that people are trying to get recording tools up on Linux, but the fact that most people can't even get their sound cards working without problems to begin with.
Not to mention, apps like Cubase SX 2 and specifically Sonar 3 XL are so far ahead now in the Windows realm, it's going to take quite a lot for the free Linux apps to catch up. There are already freeware tools for Windows, yet few use them because the commercial solutions are extremely powerful (particularly Cakewalk's MIDI capabilities...and I even use Fruityloops as a VST plug-in and create drum tracks inside a Cakewalk project...I don't expect to be doing something like that in Linux any time soon).
Linux is too much of a moving target right now. Once it settles down a bit and people feel comfortable writing apps that will still run correctly in a year, we'll see a big explosion of apps (not to mention once we get KDE/GNOME/X replaced with something sane and modern--think something in the style of OS X but running on Linux).
Because not everyone is a developer or even savvy enough to package something, and so they "pathetically hope" some heroic person will do this stuff for them. These peons we call users.
The Gentoo release team is working hard to get Gentoo Linux 2004.0 to the mirrors as quickly as possible, but we are experiencing some technical problems with our mirroring system that are hindering the process. This should be resolved within the next 24 to 48 hours. Thank you for your patience.
* The headline is completely wrong--the 2004.0 file everyone is downloading is the EXPERIMENTAL pre-release that's been sitting on FTPs for a while.
* As a result, everyone and their mothers are reporting now that it is out. #gentoo has been fielding people left and right over it. Thanks, Slashdot.
* Hemos mentions it in passing with a "Looks like it's not out yet - stay tuned for more information" at the very bottom of the blurb. Uh, mind changing the headline then that says it's released? A bunch of people are downloading the experimental now.
Thanks for the journalistic integrity, Slashdot--again.
Topic says "Gentoo Linux || ignore slashdot and various other news-sites, 2004.0 is not released."
What's going on? OSNews and Slashdot both reported it's out. Did someone see the 2004.0 file on FTP and get jumpy? That file's been there for quite a while.
Slashdot Mirror
The way you wrote it seemed to be only intended to cause a flamewar.
If you feel my agreement with the underlying point is pathetic, I don't know what to say.
Documentation, usability problems, etc. *are* bugs.
Yeah, but that means you then get a bunch of:
Do this (Ksomething)
Do this (Ksomething)
Do this (Ksomething)
Do this (Ksomething)
I've run KDE on my Gentoo-based laptop installation for people. They look for app names. "Where's the word processor?" I tell them to look for the functional description, but then everyone looks for different things. "Write a paper." "Word processor." "Paper writer."
Either way, you're having to memorize the description referring the app--app name or the arbritrary description the KDE developers chose. People remember unique titles better than a bunch of multiple-word descriptions.
I just don't see the following two things:
1.) Why it's so hard to not use a K-prefix before every single thing--it looks completely amateurish and "hackerish." KDE itself is a horrible name, but it's ridiculous with entire changelogs consisting of "K-" prefixes.
2.) Why the obsession begins in the first place, like a bad programmers' attempt at being cute with their app name in IRC. "Ooh, we'll call our picture gallery 'Kallery'!" "LOL!" "rofl" "lets do it"
Those "scathing reviews" need to be listened to. Compare a screenshot of KDE and apps with a screenshot of, say, OS X with apps and see the difference. They're about 20 years of desktop design experience apart.
I always find it amusing when people bitch about Eugenia's review of widgets and such, when meanwhile newbies are always pointing out how ugly Linux is. Most people try to point to www.kde-look.org as some sort of retort, which is just a bunch of even uglier desktops with horrible colors that look great in a static shot but could not be used all day without a headache.
I've thought about that myself. It makes more sense when you look at the amount of KDE developers who are not in the States.
KDE doesn't have any usability problems, period.
Give me a break. I could give you an entire list.
From your post, it seems you are a KDE fan and that is good, but don't bash others just because they don't choose to use that system. I don't use it because it so slooooooow and has an extremely cramped interface. Way too many buttons going on.
None of that matters when it takes 10 seconds to load anything, and 5 just to open your Home folder. Not to mention 25,000 items on one K Menu all starting with K, and 100,000 items in Control Center.
Gnome works just fine and--gasp--is actually responsive and snappy. KDE wants more sidebar buttons with every release, because when you look at the code, there is a lot of unoptimized C++ going on.
Will QA testing fix:
* The 5-10 second load-time for KDE apps
* The 4 second load time just to open a folder
* The cramped and embarrassing K menu, with a 100 different groups and completely illogical redundancies like "Preferences," "System Settings," and "Control Center"
* The poor naming scheme that--despite close to five years of bitching--hasn't been changed in favor of something sane
* The convoluted Control Center that is an example of poor interface design with 3,000 items and subitems, grouped together under a cursor that for some reason won't stop changing to the hand icon
* The fact that the cursor changes to a hand icon when it moves over taskbar buttons (cursor changes are confusing, disorienting, and annoying to newbies and power users alike)
* The fact that when you tell KDE to put application menus at the top like MacOS, it defeats the whole purpose by not registering a click if you have the cursor all the way to the top--apparently, there is a pixel of space between the top of the screen and the menu. Mac users are used to slamming the cursor all the way to the top and clicking, which is faster than slowing the cursor and pinpointing a menu in a floating window like in Windows
* The seeming need for every new version of KDE to add five more sidebars, buttons, and features to KPanel/Konquerer/anything else beginning with K, instead of cleaning the interface and making things faster
I could go on and on. I don't get why it is so slow. Windows XP does NOT take so long to load, say, a window. And I despise Windows in general. Yet Windows gets bashed for being bloated, and yet KDE is readily accept despite being slower and more bloated than Windows itself. It's the double-standard, and though some may label me a troll for pointing it out, nonetheless it is my opinion and you're welcome to disagree.
Because time after time, people point out how 100% stupid the naming scheme is, yet it never changes.
It will never be taken seriously with a name like "KDE" and 100 apps all starting with "K."
People mention Gnome apps, but like I said, only a few on my Gnome menu start with G. Everything else is Abiword, Evolution, Epiphany (or Galeon), etc. ACTUAL NAMES.
This is the cleverest troll I've ever seen.
I know this is a troll.
But to everyone else, seriously, compare a screenshot of KDE with open apps to a screenshot of OS X with open apps. It's like night and day. We gotta work on an attractive and intuitive interface.
Has anybody taken a look at the Gnome HIG? They're great, even specifying seemingly mundane aspects such as the amount of pixels between an alert icon and text message on a popup dialog box.
These things do matter, whether consciously or not, to users.
...for catching up to Gnome and its focus on usability. 2.6 is due out this month.
KDE 3.2 was great, but it *still* takes 4 seconds to open my Home folder when I double-click it on the desktop. This after compiling it on my laptop for a total of 14 hours. The interface is way to convoluted for me, making configurability a real pain in the ass.
Gnome is just snappier for me, and much cleaner.
This isn't meant to be a troll. Just offering my opinion on why I don't use KDE--an opinion as valid as all the people chiming in about why they *do* use it.
Evolution, Abiword, and even Gnumeric (still better). Of all the apps on my default Gnome menu, only about two start with G.
If you want a usable interface, use Gnome. A simple Applications menu and Actions menu at the top by default.
KDE wants one huge, super-long list with absolutely redundant things like Settings, System, Preferences, and then thirty-thousand other menus seperated by bars.
And then within each group, a "More Programs" link for some bizarre reason.
And then you fire up Control Center and there are 100,000 items to choose from, and the cursor always changes to that awful hand icon with the finger that's too long. Cursor changes are confusing to users and diorients them. The cursor also changes for some reason on taskbar buttons.
I could go on and on.
THE NAME.
r y ...and pretty much anything else obsessively beginning with "K" for absolutely no reason. Thank god Gnome isn't like this.
KDE is an awful name, as are:
KOffice
Killustrator
Kougar
Kroupware
Kalle
KTetris
Because there are still bitter Slashdotters who hate that a program that let them conveniently pirate every album under the sun was taken away and replaced with something legitimate. Anything involving Napster is news, even the fact that it's not really the Napster we remember anymore.
Which is silly, of course, since other formats like DXi in Windows also exist. As if a specific plug-in format, i.e. VST, is somehow superior to others. It's just a connection API. The audio quality isn't magically better or anything.
You're "DJ friends" can keep on using VST forever while everyone else moves on.
It's great that people are trying to get recording tools up on Linux, but the fact that most people can't even get their sound cards working without problems to begin with.
Not to mention, apps like Cubase SX 2 and specifically Sonar 3 XL are so far ahead now in the Windows realm, it's going to take quite a lot for the free Linux apps to catch up. There are already freeware tools for Windows, yet few use them because the commercial solutions are extremely powerful (particularly Cakewalk's MIDI capabilities...and I even use Fruityloops as a VST plug-in and create drum tracks inside a Cakewalk project...I don't expect to be doing something like that in Linux any time soon).
Linux is too much of a moving target right now. Once it settles down a bit and people feel comfortable writing apps that will still run correctly in a year, we'll see a big explosion of apps (not to mention once we get KDE/GNOME/X replaced with something sane and modern--think something in the style of OS X but running on Linux).
Because not everyone is a developer or even savvy enough to package something, and so they "pathetically hope" some heroic person will do this stuff for them. These peons we call users.
From the website:
The Gentoo release team is working hard to get Gentoo Linux 2004.0 to the mirrors as quickly as possible, but we are experiencing some technical problems with our mirroring system that are hindering the process. This should be resolved within the next 24 to 48 hours. Thank you for your patience.
Slashdot totally fucked them over. Thanks, guys!
"Gentoo Linux || ignore slashdot and various other news-sites, 2004.0 is not released."
Unfortunately, the file is in the releases directory and is dated today.
Yeah, that's the experimental 2004.0 file that's been there for at least a MONTH. It gets routinely updated.
Next time before you call someone a "troll," look into it first.
Fair enough, though a simple workaround is to do an "emerge -up world" after an unmerge and see if Gentoo wants you to install that package again.
Does it disturb anyone else that:
* The headline is completely wrong--the 2004.0 file everyone is downloading is the EXPERIMENTAL pre-release that's been sitting on FTPs for a while.
* As a result, everyone and their mothers are reporting now that it is out. #gentoo has been fielding people left and right over it. Thanks, Slashdot.
* Hemos mentions it in passing with a "Looks like it's not out yet - stay tuned for more information" at the very bottom of the blurb. Uh, mind changing the headline then that says it's released? A bunch of people are downloading the experimental now.
Thanks for the journalistic integrity, Slashdot--again.
Topic says "Gentoo Linux || ignore slashdot and various other news-sites, 2004.0 is not released."
What's going on? OSNews and Slashdot both reported it's out. Did someone see the 2004.0 file on FTP and get jumpy? That file's been there for quite a while.