transparency in government is extremely important, however i believe that this applies to government actions, and not necessarily private lives.
if you applied for a job, should you have to open up all medical records, including that time you went to vegas and cant remember if you used a condom or not with that prostitute? or, that you have chronic lopwer back pain, and your medication regiment makes rush limbaugh look like a choir boy, or that you've battled severe bouts of depression.
there are private records, that are truly private - every single person, even including presidential candidates deserve this level of respect.
the energy policy needs to be public, because it affects public policy. kerry's private records from 30 years ago do not, as they have no bearing on his actions at the time, or his fitness to be commandeer in chief.
on what basis are you accusing Kerry of lieing? John O'Neill's taped remarks? O'Neill (a Nixonian creation) is on the Watergate tapes speaking to Nixon saying "I was in Cambodia".
It is completely legimate that Kerry was in Cambodia. Hell, his accuser even admitted to the POTUS that he was in cambodia, in the same timeframe as Kerry.
So - what legitimate source are you basing your smear on?
what do you want, every single record openned up for kerry? the 180 includes private medical records, private consultations, and other information that should be PRIVATE.
really itching for a fishing expedition, eh? maybe kerry got the clap in 'nam, so you could bash him on that, or he didnt return all his issued uniforms... who the hell cares - his official records are public.
and compared to the chimps public records, kerry has more than shown his ability to lead.
The position of letters are identical. The word wrap is identical. The superscripting is identical.
and somehow, this is supposed to past muster? CBS had an expert look into this - and they concluded that they are authentic.
you, are lieing, and poorly at that.
It is a sad statement that clear, authentic pointed evidence can be called into question because of some conspiracy theory based in bullshit.
Here's the crux of the matter, according to official Navy Records (that were previously "missing"): 1) Killian gave a direct order for George W. Bush to take an annual flight physical. 2) Due to refusal to obey that order, GWB was suspended from flying, AND denied a transfer to the alabama ANG.
The other two memos were from Killian's personal journals - evidence that is considerred admissssable in court - they are not forgeries, despite what someone's imagination cooked up.
* head of Iran/Contra investigation Nothing really happened as the result of that investigation.
If by "nothing", you mean 14 convictions....
* head of BCCI Investigation Few of the changes suggested made it into law.
except that the suggestions were put into effect post-9/11 with the PATRIOT act.
and as a side note - if attacking Iran becomes a point in this election, look for Kerry to hang the entire Bush Family evil empire out to dry. He absolutely knows where the bodies are buried.
John Kerry told me in Bangkok,
John Kerry told *you* ???
* Helped Normalized relations with Vietnam
NOW that is something to be proud of, he helped normalize relations with a country that just recently killed hundreds of christians because of their religion. "Hundreds of Vietnamese Christians killed at Easter -13/4/04
well, at least the united states isnt killing thousands of muslims in iraq, for their religion.
* helped get 100,000 cops on the street.
And only provided funding for 3-5 years then leaving it up to the cash straped states to continue funding them.
what the fuck are the supposed to check? the documents were: 1) released by the navy from an FOIA request 2) simulataneously released by the WHITE HOUSE!
who the hell do you think that you're fooling? W was an AWOL coked up fratboy who had daddy puill strings.
the man ducked his duty, ended up in a champagne squadron, and then didnt have the decency to show up.
Good lord, what a terrible mischaracterization of Kerry's testimony - have you actually read the transcripts? Do you have any idea how many veterans he was representing, who told him specific accounts?
Because the accusations behind the Kerry slander had no truth behind them, whereas the Bush accusations have official memo's detailing georgie's refusal of a direct order, and the resulting suspension of flight priviledges.
whereas - the kerry accusations have nothing resembling facts.
* head of Iran/Contra investigation * head of BCCI Investigation * w/McCain - POW/MIA Vietnam investigation * Helped Normalized relations with Vietnam * helped get 100,000 cops on the street.
and that - is one helluva lot more than bush did before he got "elected" president.
the vast majority of kerry's good work was in the "oversight" role of the senate over the exec branch.
as for why i keep bringing in bush...
as per clinton, removing an incumbent is a 2 step process: 1) convince people of the need to fire the incumbent. 2) convince people that your guy is better.
john kerry is not here to defend himself, he is here to finish george bush, and hopefully the rest of the bush dynasty while he's at it.
and now you're using the nysun, a newscorp rag. i guess that its better than newsmax...
> What is wrong with bush's national security record ?
aside from 9/11 happening on his watch? or is it his attacking a country that had nothing to do with that tragedy? or maybe its because we're playing nice with the two big bad guys, saudi arabia and pakistan.
or, maybe its because he listened to rummy, and misplanned the invasion of iraq, and put in too few men to get the job done.
or maybe its the missile defense system that doesnt work, and wouldnt stop teorrirst attacks.
somehow, george is trying to portray recklessness and mismanagement as bravery, and taking care of national security.
>If their is nothing to hide in his records why >doesn't he sign the form?
here's a better question - why couldnt george have the common decency to SHOW UP? you've got one guy who's ass was actually on the line, and the other who's nose was on the line.
and somehow, you're smearing a man who has served this country faithfully for over 30 years.
How did memories of Cambodia get seared in Kerry's memory?
the same way the memories of being in Cambodia were seared into John O'Neill's memory - as evidenced when he told Nixon that he was in Cambodia, and the thing is caught on tape, thanks to Nixon!
Isnt it amazing that after all these years, the Watergate tapes are teh gift that keeps giving?
"They were never questioned until the SBVTs decided that they were no good soldiers who lied and acted cowardly, but ya know, with John Kerry, 'cause he was like, totally there...in Vietnam...on the other side of the country...
actually - every single election, kerry has lead with "i'm a highly decorated vietnam vet", and every single opponent has tried to attack him on that, and ended up losing.
its like he leads with his (large) chin, and dares his opponents to sucker punch him.
We already know Kerry lied about being in Cambodia in Christmas 1968.
bullshit - the gentleman who made that claim - John O'Neill, an operative created by Nixon specifically to discredit Kerry, told Nixon that he himself was in Cambodia: --- O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.
O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
all of kerry's records are public, dave. kerry has nothing to hide. his records were not "accidentally destroyed while trying to preserve them". he has a helluva lot more to show for his time in service than a couple of cavities.
how dare you question a man's service who has earned - yes, EARNED - three purple hearts, a silver star, and a bronze star with a V.
the attacks on Kerry's record bear no relation to reality, and i'm sorry that you bought into the lies on this good man.
as for balance - i'm sorry dave, but reality isnt balanced.
the reality is, that GWB is a coked up fratboy who hasnt worked a day in his life, got daddy to pull strings to get him in a champagne unit, and then didnt have the decency to show up. christ, we've got reports that the man did coke at camp david as late as 1993!
so, screw you and your balance. its time to be exposed to the Truth.
"the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out" he was using the "royal" we? Are you saying that Kerry was simply relaying what he was told with no knowledge of whether it was true? If he did know that this was going on, then he himself, as an officer, is responsible.
He collected enough information to demonstrate that atrocities were being commited in Vietnam on a widespread basis. He spoke the Truth.
Are you telling me that "we" as americans did not commit... lets not mince words here... war crimes in Vietnam?
Slashdot Mirror
ya know what - this is simply unbelievable... any other person would be politically dead after releasing documents of this nature...
but no - you have to go through insane contortions and claim that documents the whitehouse, itself released are forgeries.
let focus here:
the documents are genuine.
bush refused a direct order, and was suspended from flying.
babbling on about MS-WORD and copying machines is a poor attempt to cast doubt on the accuracy of the documents. they're real.
transparency in government is extremely important, however i believe that this applies to government actions, and not necessarily private lives.
if you applied for a job, should you have to open up all medical records, including that time you went to vegas and cant remember if you used a condom or not with that prostitute? or, that you have chronic lopwer back pain, and your medication regiment makes rush limbaugh look like a choir boy, or that you've battled severe bouts of depression.
there are private records, that are truly private - every single person, even including presidential candidates deserve this level of respect.
the energy policy needs to be public, because it affects public policy. kerry's private records from 30 years ago do not, as they have no bearing on his actions at the time, or his fitness to be commandeer in chief.
Like I'm sure you supported the WWII heroes over a draft dodger in 1992 and 1996, right?
except that in 1992, and 1996 - we werent fighting a war in iraq.
context... you need to keep in mind context.
Bush and Dick should sign one also just like they should release the energy task force records.
you know, this is the first thing that you've said that i agree with.
on what basis are you accusing Kerry of lieing? John O'Neill's taped remarks? O'Neill (a Nixonian creation) is on the Watergate tapes speaking to Nixon saying "I was in Cambodia".
It is completely legimate that Kerry was in Cambodia. Hell, his accuser even admitted to the POTUS that he was in cambodia, in the same timeframe as Kerry.
So - what legitimate source are you basing your smear on?
so... georgie has signed a 180, then?
(in case you're wondering, the answer is "no")
what do you want, every single record openned up for kerry? the 180 includes private medical records, private consultations, and other information that should be PRIVATE.
really itching for a fishing expedition, eh? maybe kerry got the clap in 'nam, so you could bash him on that, or he didnt return all his issued uniforms... who the hell cares - his official records are public.
and compared to the chimps public records, kerry has more than shown his ability to lead.
oh yeh... forgot about that - sorry... i thought that we were having a democratic debate, instead of a fascist farce. :-)
You get an identical looking document.
The position of letters are identical. The word wrap is identical. The superscripting is identical.
and somehow, this is supposed to past muster? CBS had an expert look into this - and they concluded that they are authentic.
you, are lieing, and poorly at that.
It is a sad statement that clear, authentic pointed evidence can be called into question because of some conspiracy theory based in bullshit.
Here's the crux of the matter, according to official Navy Records (that were previously "missing"):
1) Killian gave a direct order for George W. Bush to take an annual flight physical.
2) Due to refusal to obey that order, GWB was suspended from flying, AND denied a transfer to the alabama ANG.
The other two memos were from Killian's personal journals - evidence that is considerred admissssable in court - they are not forgeries, despite what someone's imagination cooked up.
what the hell do you want? how many socks kerry was issued, but didnt return?
this is an invented issue, and bears no relation to kerry's service record.
* head of Iran/Contra investigation
Nothing really happened as the result of that investigation.
If by "nothing", you mean 14 convictions....
* head of BCCI Investigation
Few of the changes suggested made it into law.
except that the suggestions were put into effect post-9/11 with the PATRIOT act.
and as a side note - if attacking Iran becomes a point in this election, look for Kerry to hang the entire Bush Family evil empire out to dry. He absolutely knows where the bodies are buried.
John Kerry told me in Bangkok,
John Kerry told *you* ???
* Helped Normalized relations with Vietnam
NOW that is something to be proud of, he helped normalize relations with a country that just recently killed hundreds of christians because of their religion. "Hundreds of Vietnamese Christians killed at Easter -13/4/04
well, at least the united states isnt killing thousands of muslims in iraq, for their religion.
* helped get 100,000 cops on the street.
And only provided funding for 3-5 years then leaving it up to the cash straped states to continue funding them.
congress can only fund programs for 24 months.
The truth is not balanced. If the obvious,l supportable facts support one side over the other, why bother reporting lies?
You'd think they'd check their sources.
what the fuck are the supposed to check? the documents were:
1) released by the navy from an FOIA request
2) simulataneously released by the WHITE HOUSE!
who the hell do you think that you're fooling? W was an AWOL coked up fratboy who had daddy puill strings.
the man ducked his duty, ended up in a champagne squadron, and then didnt have the decency to show up.
Good lord, what a terrible mischaracterization of Kerry's testimony - have you actually read the transcripts? Do you have any idea how many veterans he was representing, who told him specific accounts?
Because the accusations behind the Kerry slander had no truth behind them, whereas the Bush accusations have official memo's detailing georgie's refusal of a direct order, and the resulting suspension of flight priviledges.
whereas - the kerry accusations have nothing resembling facts.
* head of Iran/Contra investigation
* head of BCCI Investigation
* w/McCain - POW/MIA Vietnam investigation
* Helped Normalized relations with Vietnam
* helped get 100,000 cops on the street.
and that - is one helluva lot more than bush did before he got "elected" president.
the vast majority of kerry's good work was in the "oversight" role of the senate over the exec branch.
as for why i keep bringing in bush...
as per clinton, removing an incumbent is a 2 step process:
1) convince people of the need to fire the incumbent.
2) convince people that your guy is better.
john kerry is not here to defend himself, he is here to finish george bush, and hopefully the rest of the bush dynasty while he's at it.
and now you're using the nysun, a newscorp rag. i guess that its better than newsmax...
> What is wrong with bush's national security record ?
aside from 9/11 happening on his watch? or is it his attacking a country that had nothing to do with that tragedy? or maybe its because we're playing nice with the two big bad guys, saudi arabia and pakistan.
or, maybe its because he listened to rummy, and misplanned the invasion of iraq, and put in too few men to get the job done.
or maybe its the missile defense system that doesnt work, and wouldnt stop teorrirst attacks.
somehow, george is trying to portray recklessness and mismanagement as bravery, and taking care of national security.
>If their is nothing to hide in his records why
>doesn't he sign the form?
here's a better question - why couldnt george have the common decency to SHOW UP? you've got one guy who's ass was actually on the line, and the other who's nose was on the line.
and somehow, you're smearing a man who has served this country faithfully for over 30 years.
>Kerry wrote the Navy's reports, or the reports were
>based off false information provided by Kerry.
and what, praytell, is your evidence of this, that is so strong that it should overturn 30 year old official government records?
you're quoting WND, which is not a reputable news source, and I reject your argument based on you using a poor source.
---
what the hell is getting a 180 going to prove? how many he was issued from the quartermaster? how many socks he didnt return?
---
kerry will run on his senate record, as soon as he destroys all credibility of W regarding national security.
let me start off with this: you're insane.
How did memories of Cambodia get seared in Kerry's memory?
the same way the memories of being in Cambodia were seared into John O'Neill's memory - as evidenced when he told Nixon that he was in Cambodia, and the thing is caught on tape, thanks to Nixon!
Isnt it amazing that after all these years, the Watergate tapes are teh gift that keeps giving?
"They were never questioned until the SBVTs decided that they were no good soldiers who lied and acted cowardly, but ya know, with John Kerry, 'cause he was like, totally there...in Vietnam...on the other side of the country...
actually - every single election, kerry has lead with "i'm a highly decorated vietnam vet", and every single opponent has tried to attack him on that, and ended up losing.
its like he leads with his (large) chin, and dares his opponents to sucker punch him.
We already know Kerry lied about being in Cambodia in Christmas 1968.
bullshit - the gentleman who made that claim - John O'Neill, an operative created by Nixon specifically to discredit Kerry, told Nixon that he himself was in Cambodia:
---
O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.
O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O'NEILL: Yes, sir.
---
link
It was found on THE WATERGATE TAPES - the gift that keeps giving.
all of kerry's records are public, dave. kerry has nothing to hide. his records were not "accidentally destroyed while trying to preserve them". he has a helluva lot more to show for his time in service than a couple of cavities.
how dare you question a man's service who has earned - yes, EARNED - three purple hearts, a silver star, and a bronze star with a V.
the attacks on Kerry's record bear no relation to reality, and i'm sorry that you bought into the lies on this good man.
as for balance - i'm sorry dave, but reality isnt balanced.
the reality is, that GWB is a coked up fratboy who hasnt worked a day in his life, got daddy to pull strings to get him in a champagne unit, and then didnt have the decency to show up. christ, we've got reports that the man did coke at camp david as late as 1993!
so, screw you and your balance. its time to be exposed to the Truth.
you're linking to your own site, and all of those quotes are completely unsourced?
whatever.
"the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out" he was using the "royal" we? Are you saying that Kerry was simply relaying what he was told with no knowledge of whether it was true? If he did know that this was going on, then he himself, as an officer, is responsible.
... lets not mince words here... war crimes in Vietnam?
He collected enough information to demonstrate that atrocities were being commited in Vietnam on a widespread basis. He spoke the Truth.
Are you telling me that "we" as americans did not commit