Actually it had nothing to do with any of that. It had to do with scarcity. In the Americas (especially the north americas) food wa plentiful and the population was low. Whenever resources got scarce in some area the tribes simply moved up the road a little and ther was more food. There was so much food from animals and plants that there was never any need to develop agriculture.
Europe and Asia on the other hand were much more populated and there was enourmous competition for food and fertile land. It is because of this reason that cities were born, armies were raised, animals were domesticated. The Europeans after waging non stop wars for centuries had perfected the art of killing humans in ungodly numbers.
It's a vicous cycle. Modern farming enables 6 billion people to live thereby needing to feed 15 billion in a few years. Eventually it will fold like a house of cards.
Maybe they were just camped there eating the buffalo? Also are there a sea of buffalo bones becuase if you read the lewis and clark diaries (and you should it's very interesting) they describe waiting for three days for the buffalo herd to walk by. If you have stampeded such a herd it would seem to me you would have thousands of buffalos in one spot not just one or two.
Even intangible things like ideas, concepts, songs, plans, etc are considered property and have legal status of ownership. Furthermore the port exists only because a machine exists. That machine is mine, the post is on the machine and therefore the port is mine.
Even if you don't do "damage" I can argue that your portscan cost me money. It cost me money because you used my bandwidth, it cost me money becuase you used my CPU cycles, it cost me money because you used my hard drive space and it cost me money because I had to analyze that log to try and see it you were up to no good. It cost me tangible money and tangible time. Even if each portscan cost me five or ten dollars it adds up ove the lifespan of the machine. I suppose I could ignore my logs but that too would cost me even more money in the long run.
It will one day because it's logical and consistent with our current concepts of property. Many people have ranches spanning many acres which are not fenced but it's still illegal for you to step on that land, bike through it, hunt on it etc. You may claim that it causes no harm to walk through their property or that because they have not fenced it you are free to walk about on it but it's still trespassing.
Port scaning is tresspassing pure and simple. It matters not what your intention is or weather I have IPchains rules to stop you. BTW even if I do have firewall rules you are still eating up my bandwidth and my CPU cyles and my hard drive space by port scanning me.
In america property rights are very vigorously defended. Using other peoples property without permission is illegal in most cases and will one day be illegal in this case too. It's just a matter of time for technology to catch up so it can be enforced. Hopefully IPv6 will take us a huge step in that direction and I can't wait.
I would agree to disagree except that you keep insisting that a port on my machine, set up by me, for my purposes, using bandwidth I paid for by me is somehow not my property.
If you refuse to accept the analogy I guess that's that then there is no arguing with you. You claim that you should be able to portscan my machine at will for any purpose whatsoever as often as you like without consequences. Well I say screw that. It's my machine and keep your hands off of it. If I want you to use it I will let you know when and how you may use it. Otherwise keep off of my property.
Is that so hard to understand? Why do you feel like you should be able to do whatever you want to my machine? What other property gives you this kind of a right?
I would outlaw port scanning without permission. That's all. If you want to portscan me just ask I might let you otherwise it's tresspassing. Of course something like this would be hard to enforce given the state of TCP/IP as it is today but one day your ability to spoof will be gone and I will dance in the streets. But then again tresspassing is hard to enforce too if you have a 300 acre ranch. Somehow it's still illegal though.
Oh here are a few.
Before the election.
We will pull out our troops out of kosovo.
Soon after the election.
We will let the israelis and the palestenians settle their own disputes.
We will not bail out Turkey
We will back out of the Kyoto Treaties (global warming is not real).
Guess what the troops are staying in kosovo for a long time, turkey got something like 3 billion dollars, the US is now actively trying to broker a treaty in the occupied lands, and Bush is going to Europe to see if he can save face with the kyoto treaty.
Add to that the following whoppers.
We did not apologize to china
It's possible to drill for oil in alaska while preserving nature.
We will vigorously defend the roadless initiative.
Oh yea the arsenic thing was pretty funny too.
I guess none of that is as important as "I did not sleep with monica lewinsky" to the republicans but then again they were obsessed with the size, shape and whereabouts of Bill Clintons cock. I saw Ann Coulter describing Bill Clintons cock on Fox news or MSNBC or one of those other republican media outlets one time and I just about died laughing. She was talking about the shape of his cock and how Paula Jones was going to "kiss it". It was oddly pornographic yet hilarious at the same time.
I never understood why you guys became so obsessed with the whereabouts of Bill Clintons cock so much, I still don't.
Go back re-read the thread. Nobody said anything about walking by and looking at the house. The analogy in question is snooping around the house, taking pictures, rattling doors etc. This activity is criminal. I hope to hell my neighbors call the cops if they see anybody around my house acting like that and I hope to hell the police stop the guy and ask him what the hell he is up to. I hope to hell there will be similar mechanism for port scanners where they will be stopped and questioned about their intent.
Once again you seem to fail to understand the INTENT of a misconfigured router.
If people portscanned you and then moved it's because they saw nothing interesting. If you had a vulnaribility they would have stopped and rooted you. Good job. Just hope that one day some snot nosed kid isn't going to find out about some vulnaribility before you do.
I hope and pray that the day will come where the TCP/IP protocol will be in such a condition that I will be instantly able to track down any portscanner. When Packets can't be spoofed, when return adressed can't be forged, and when people will be held personally responsible for their acts of vandalism. When such a day comes I will be the first in line to press charges against anybody who portscans my system and make them pay for taking up my bandwidth and my processing power even it's only ten cents. I will also fight to make these actions criminal, I will lobby my congresspeople and I will tell anybody who listens. Until people end up jail for cracking systems cracking will go on. Until we fix the protocols which allow people to unleash distruction anonymously we will all be victims of smart aleck 13 year old script kiddies with nothing to do but jerk off to pr0n and destroy other peoples property because they can't get laid and have to realese their sexual frustration by being destructive.
First of all a tool that is used 99% of the time in criminal activity and 1% of the time in non criminal activity will be either illegal or highly regulated. All kinds of chemicals and drugs fall under this classification. You can't go into a drug store and buy heroin but a doctor can prescribe it for you. They are not illegal to have but require licensing, registration etc. In the real world it's not all or nothing.
There is no reason why something like that can not be set up to prevent hackers from portscanning your machine.
I don't know why you keep insisting that the USER is modifying the page. The users are cluless moron sheeple who have smart tags installed on their machine. It's MS who is modifying the page the user is a pair of eyeballs MS sells to advertisers.
You seem to know something about this technology so tell me this. What happens when MS tags a word and I tag a word? Whose tag appears and in what order?
Smart tag SDK only works on windows. You must purchase windows and windows developement tools and learn them in order to create tags to defend yourself from microsft hijacking your customers to whever pays MS the most money. Great for MS sucks for you.
Which asshole MS astro turfer marked this down as flamebait. Somebody nail that bastard on meta.
The degree of astro turfing on slashdot is getting ridiculus.
Font changes are applied universally wheas smart tags are applied selectively. To the user the smart tag adds emphasis. To you it's disaster. Your competitor will buy smart tags which will lure your customers from your site to their site.
What do you mean more restrictive variable scope for classes? You mean private variables? That might be cool. What I really want is try catch exception handling and more uniform API not to mention better implementation of the HERE syntax.
Where do these tags go? Does MS have to approve of them? Does the user have to install it like a plug in? Does IE automatically install it for the user without asking? What if I have a tag for the word "windows" and ms has a tag for the word "windows" whose tag will display?
Why should we have to do anything, pay anything, spend any time at all trying to prevent MS from hijacking our customers to other sites.
MS has just delivered it's entire userbase to advertisers. Now every single user of windows is a pair of eyeballs which MS will charge for. Great for them sucks for all the sheeple.
I think you nailed it. Knowing windows is not cool. Linux is cool. Fortunately for us MS actually hypes this aspect of NT. They are always talking about how you can get by with cheap admins on NT vs paying for expensive Unix Admins. I keep a list of these clippings and whenever a high schooler asks me what he or she should learn I tell them that Bill Gates or Steve Balmer says they will make more money by being a Unix Admin. Ain't irony sweet.
I would suggest this to everybody. Go dig around the net and gather all comments from MS executives about how much Java programmers cost or how much Unix Admins cost and then go visit a high school. You can make a huge difference in someones life.
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Actually it had nothing to do with any of that. It had to do with scarcity. In the Americas (especially the north americas) food wa plentiful and the population was low. Whenever resources got scarce in some area the tribes simply moved up the road a little and ther was more food. There was so much food from animals and plants that there was never any need to develop agriculture.
Europe and Asia on the other hand were much more populated and there was enourmous competition for food and fertile land. It is because of this reason that cities were born, armies were raised, animals were domesticated. The Europeans after waging non stop wars for centuries had perfected the art of killing humans in ungodly numbers.
"Has it ever occurred to these people that animals (Surprise Surprise!) eat other animals?"
Did you ever kill a cockroach? Did you eat it?
It's a vicous cycle. Modern farming enables 6 billion people to live thereby needing to feed 15 billion in a few years. Eventually it will fold like a house of cards.
Maybe they were just camped there eating the buffalo? Also are there a sea of buffalo bones becuase if you read the lewis and clark diaries (and you should it's very interesting) they describe waiting for three days for the buffalo herd to walk by. If you have stampeded such a herd it would seem to me you would have thousands of buffalos in one spot not just one or two.
False on both accounts.
Even intangible things like ideas, concepts, songs, plans, etc are considered property and have legal status of ownership. Furthermore the port exists only because a machine exists. That machine is mine, the post is on the machine and therefore the port is mine.
Even if you don't do "damage" I can argue that your portscan cost me money. It cost me money because you used my bandwidth, it cost me money becuase you used my CPU cycles, it cost me money because you used my hard drive space and it cost me money because I had to analyze that log to try and see it you were up to no good. It cost me tangible money and tangible time. Even if each portscan cost me five or ten dollars it adds up ove the lifespan of the machine. I suppose I could ignore my logs but that too would cost me even more money in the long run.
It will one day because it's logical and consistent with our current concepts of property. Many people have ranches spanning many acres which are not fenced but it's still illegal for you to step on that land, bike through it, hunt on it etc. You may claim that it causes no harm to walk through their property or that because they have not fenced it you are free to walk about on it but it's still trespassing.
Port scaning is tresspassing pure and simple. It matters not what your intention is or weather I have IPchains rules to stop you. BTW even if I do have firewall rules you are still eating up my bandwidth and my CPU cyles and my hard drive space by port scanning me.
In america property rights are very vigorously defended. Using other peoples property without permission is illegal in most cases and will one day be illegal in this case too. It's just a matter of time for technology to catch up so it can be enforced. Hopefully IPv6 will take us a huge step in that direction and I can't wait.
I would agree to disagree except that you keep insisting that a port on my machine, set up by me, for my purposes, using bandwidth I paid for by me is somehow not my property.
If you refuse to accept the analogy I guess that's that then there is no arguing with you. You claim that you should be able to portscan my machine at will for any purpose whatsoever as often as you like without consequences. Well I say screw that. It's my machine and keep your hands off of it. If I want you to use it I will let you know when and how you may use it. Otherwise keep off of my property.
Is that so hard to understand? Why do you feel like you should be able to do whatever you want to my machine? What other property gives you this kind of a right?
I would outlaw port scanning without permission. That's all. If you want to portscan me just ask I might let you otherwise it's tresspassing. Of course something like this would be hard to enforce given the state of TCP/IP as it is today but one day your ability to spoof will be gone and I will dance in the streets. But then again tresspassing is hard to enforce too if you have a 300 acre ranch. Somehow it's still illegal though.
" Gore lost. Bush won. Get over it."
Never forget, never forgive.
Oh here are a few.
Before the election.
We will pull out our troops out of kosovo.
Soon after the election.
We will let the israelis and the palestenians settle their own disputes.
We will not bail out Turkey
We will back out of the Kyoto Treaties (global warming is not real).
Guess what the troops are staying in kosovo for a long time, turkey got something like 3 billion dollars, the US is now actively trying to broker a treaty in the occupied lands, and Bush is going to Europe to see if he can save face with the kyoto treaty.
Add to that the following whoppers.
We did not apologize to china
It's possible to drill for oil in alaska while preserving nature.
We will vigorously defend the roadless initiative.
Oh yea the arsenic thing was pretty funny too.
I guess none of that is as important as "I did not sleep with monica lewinsky" to the republicans but then again they were obsessed with the size, shape and whereabouts of Bill Clintons cock. I saw Ann Coulter describing Bill Clintons cock on Fox news or MSNBC or one of those other republican media outlets one time and I just about died laughing. She was talking about the shape of his cock and how Paula Jones was going to "kiss it". It was oddly pornographic yet hilarious at the same time.
I never understood why you guys became so obsessed with the whereabouts of Bill Clintons cock so much, I still don't.
Go back re-read the thread. Nobody said anything about walking by and looking at the house. The analogy in question is snooping around the house, taking pictures, rattling doors etc. This activity is criminal. I hope to hell my neighbors call the cops if they see anybody around my house acting like that and I hope to hell the police stop the guy and ask him what the hell he is up to. I hope to hell there will be similar mechanism for port scanners where they will be stopped and questioned about their intent.
Once again you seem to fail to understand the INTENT of a misconfigured router.
If people portscanned you and then moved it's because they saw nothing interesting. If you had a vulnaribility they would have stopped and rooted you. Good job. Just hope that one day some snot nosed kid isn't going to find out about some vulnaribility before you do.
I hope and pray that the day will come where the TCP/IP protocol will be in such a condition that I will be instantly able to track down any portscanner. When Packets can't be spoofed, when return adressed can't be forged, and when people will be held personally responsible for their acts of vandalism. When such a day comes I will be the first in line to press charges against anybody who portscans my system and make them pay for taking up my bandwidth and my processing power even it's only ten cents. I will also fight to make these actions criminal, I will lobby my congresspeople and I will tell anybody who listens. Until people end up jail for cracking systems cracking will go on. Until we fix the protocols which allow people to unleash distruction anonymously we will all be victims of smart aleck 13 year old script kiddies with nothing to do but jerk off to pr0n and destroy other peoples property because they can't get laid and have to realese their sexual frustration by being destructive.
What a bunch of crap.
First of all a tool that is used 99% of the time in criminal activity and 1% of the time in non criminal activity will be either illegal or highly regulated. All kinds of chemicals and drugs fall under this classification. You can't go into a drug store and buy heroin but a doctor can prescribe it for you. They are not illegal to have but require licensing, registration etc. In the real world it's not all or nothing.
There is no reason why something like that can not be set up to prevent hackers from portscanning your machine.
I don't know why you keep insisting that the USER is modifying the page. The users are cluless moron sheeple who have smart tags installed on their machine. It's MS who is modifying the page the user is a pair of eyeballs MS sells to advertisers.
You seem to know something about this technology so tell me this. What happens when MS tags a word and I tag a word? Whose tag appears and in what order?
You forgot to add.
Smart tag SDK only works on windows. You must purchase windows and windows developement tools and learn them in order to create tags to defend yourself from microsft hijacking your customers to whever pays MS the most money. Great for MS sucks for you.
Great if you are VB or VC++ developer running windows. Sucks if you are using some other OS.
Which asshole MS astro turfer marked this down as flamebait. Somebody nail that bastard on meta.
The degree of astro turfing on slashdot is getting ridiculus.
Font changes are applied universally wheas smart tags are applied selectively. To the user the smart tag adds emphasis. To you it's disaster. Your competitor will buy smart tags which will lure your customers from your site to their site.
What do you mean more restrictive variable scope for classes? You mean private variables? That might be cool. What I really want is try catch exception handling and more uniform API not to mention better implementation of the HERE syntax.
Where do these tags go? Does MS have to approve of them? Does the user have to install it like a plug in? Does IE automatically install it for the user without asking? What if I have a tag for the word "windows" and ms has a tag for the word "windows" whose tag will display?
Why should we have to do anything, pay anything, spend any time at all trying to prevent MS from hijacking our customers to other sites.
MS has just delivered it's entire userbase to advertisers. Now every single user of windows is a pair of eyeballs which MS will charge for. Great for them sucks for all the sheeple.
What you'd share your PDC with other apps? Your SQL server? Most NT shops I know keep separate machines to do nothing but PDC and SDC.
I think you nailed it. Knowing windows is not cool. Linux is cool. Fortunately for us MS actually hypes this aspect of NT. They are always talking about how you can get by with cheap admins on NT vs paying for expensive Unix Admins. I keep a list of these clippings and whenever a high schooler asks me what he or she should learn I tell them that Bill Gates or Steve Balmer says they will make more money by being a Unix Admin. Ain't irony sweet.
I would suggest this to everybody. Go dig around the net and gather all comments from MS executives about how much Java programmers cost or how much Unix Admins cost and then go visit a high school. You can make a huge difference in someones life.