Do you remember RIP terms. they did some simple gui type stuff and were designed to work on 386 class machines and 1200 baud modems. I wonder where that technology is now and if it could be extended to work over TCP/IP.
I think some sort of a universal client is sorely needed. Something stateful, something with a decent GUI, something easy to program, something that would work with any OS. Am I asking for too much or are we perpetually relegated to mixing HTML, Javascript, CF/ASP/PHP code together in files and hope to make something work.
I posted my suggestions in the beginning of this thread as well as other threads. I will reiterate just to keep this dead thread going.
1) Strip first amendmend rights from corporations. They are not human beings they should not have first amendment rights.
2) Prohibit corporations from participating in the electoral process. Sorry you are not a human being you can not have any say in how the country is run.
3) Separate advertsing from speech. Consider it like a volume limit. I am not able to blare a bullhorn at 150 decibels while shouting "vote for me!". All we have to do is equate the amount of advertising to a volume control. Just like the noise regulations limit my ability to broadcast limits on political advertising can limit the "volume" of political ads"
These are all easily doable and are common sense appraches to real problem. None of the above would limit the free speech of a human being nor prevent a human being from giving all the money he/she wants to a political organization. If Bill G. wants to give a billion to Bill C. let him, just don't let MS do it. It also would not prohibit human beings to lobby congress. Corporations should not have first amendmend rights.
Now let me ask you a question. Does a corporation have second amendment rights? Can it arm itself?
Oil is cheapest because it's the most plentiful. Once it runs out (and it will because there is not an infinite supply) every thing else will be much more expensive and harder to harvest.
Ok let me see if I can make myself more clear. The constitution gurantees you the right to free speech. The constitution does not guarantee the right to bradcast that speech. Broadcasting is regulated. If for example you are using a bullhorn or a microphone and amplifier to speak you will be subject to noise regulations of the neighborhood you are speaking in. In my community there is a decibal limit as well as a time limit (no loud noises after 10:00 pm). Airwaves are already being regulated with all kinds of limitations on speech. Can you curse on the air? why not? isn't it speech?. What exactly is the difference between a corporation running an ad for cleaner underware and one advocating loosening air quality laws so they can dump more toxins into the air? Why is one free speech and the other not-so-free speech.
Isn't that the main selling point for VB. You can use controls other made. MS hypes the bound control control thing to no end. It's supposed to make your life easy. Don't blame the programmer who is trying to use some control blame the idiot who wrote a unusable and crappy control.
How come it's not free for everyone in the US. Is M$ encouraging piracy in China? Are the Chinese inherently prone to stealing? If M$ is not willing to protect their intellectual property in China can they be prevented from trying to protect it in the US? and finally what is so different about china? M$ sued a bunch of companies in Korea didn't they?
"This confuses commercial advertising with political speech, and they are not the same thing, even if they use the same media."
You say this as if it was some law of physics or something. It's just an interpretation of the constitution. I say that this interpretation of speech is plainly wrong. Preventing or limiting buying of air time does not prevent anyone from speaking. I say speech is what comes out of your mouth not how far you can broadcast it.
It comes as no surprise to me that the definition of speech has been expanded to include advertising. After all it benefits the rich and powerful. It benefits the rich people who own the media, it benefits the rich people who can shout down the working people and the poor, and it benefits the incumbents who raise more money. It would take an enourmous amount of grass roots effort to take away this advantage from the incumbents but I think it can be done. After all it's not like you are trying to change the gravitational constant.
I've said it before here on/. and I'll do so again.
Money is not speech. Advertising is not speech. Advertising is commerce. Commerce is already regulated by both the states and the government. Regulating and limiting money in no way, shape, or form prevents a human being from speaking his mind.
Corporations are not human beings. They should not have first amendment rights. They don't have second amendment rights do they? If Exxon or MS is not allowed to raise an army they should not be allowed free speech.
Corporations are not allowed to vote therefore they should not be allowed to participate in the electoral process any other way either.
If the corporations did not get something in return for their donations they would stop. Why would they continue to squander shareholders money for no return? If a CEO gave me ten grand for no return he would be fired.
Nobody was talking about value. The fact is the rich got rich because everybody else gave them some money in return for something. I have given MS thousands of dollars of my hard earned money. I tried my best to pass those costs on to people who I did business with. The fact remains somebody in the end lost and somebody in the end won. Bill G. won because he got my money. My customers lost because they I recouped my losses on their backs. In the end of course the consumers all lost because they could not pass along those expenses.
As for how money gets created. Money get created by fiat by the central banks and the govt. The economy is not a zero sum game but It is a game. Money gets created whenever interest is charged. When you are charged interest you are expected to somehow "find" this extra money. To do this you have to fight with everybody else to get theirs after all you are not allowed to create it by just printing up some. In short money flows from those who are charged interest to those charging interest.
Thing like productivity require either people (who need to eat, drink and breathe) or machinery (which needs energy and materials). Even though the economy is not a zero sum game the natural resouces game is. If you want a great explanation of how money works check this out
All fine and dandy except that what you are speaking about is spiritual goals. Those same spiritual goals advocated by Jesus, Budha, and Mohammed as well as as thousands of enlightened persons all over the world. Unfortunately spiritually advanced people don't own media ro corporations and they certainly aren't in the government. You see shallow baseless desire is the grease that makes our economic engine turn. Without the seven deadly sins (greed, gluttony, covetousness etc) the economy would collapse and Bill G. and Rupert M. et al could no longer be rich. Face it. The economic system of the entire world is in opposition to the spiritual values.
Take a microsecond and think about what kind of world it would be if everybody ran around living like Jesus did. It sure would look different wouldn't it.
What are you saying exactly? You can't complain about your senator unless you run yourself? That anybody who disagrees with you must not have voted? where do you get this from?
"I'm left wondering how the mega-corporations would get away with this when wrongful death suits were filed."
Interesting. What you are saying is that the lives of human beings should be protected by the civil courts rather then the legislature. Let's say that some chemical company decided that it was much cheaper to dump cyanide in my backyard then to dispose of it properly. You are saying that there should be no law against this. You are saying all I have to do is to sue them in civil court. Hire a lawyer who is willing to work for me for nothing or pretty cheap and go against the army of lawyers working for this other company. Let them drag the case out for about 20 years and if I haven't died of cancer by then hope for a jury to hand down a verdict. Of course if the business did not pay on the judgement I would have to sue them again in civil court right?
Wow what a great way to run a country. All we gotta do now is just find some judges who can not be bribed and some lawyers willing to work for 20 years for free.
Unfortunately for us the supreme court has pretty well fcked the human beings of the US. To fix the problem some Supreme Court decisions have to be over turned. Really the problem is fairly easily fixed if one just considers some common sense solutions.
Corporations are not human beings and therefore do not get the same liberties as human beings. Corporations should have no first amendment rights pure and simple. Does a corporation have second amendment rights? Can MS arm itself? scary huh?
Corporation can't vote so they should not be allowed to participate in any other way in the political process. If Bill Gates the human being wants to give great, but MS the corporation should not be allowed to participate in the political process.
Advertising is not speech. Advertising is already regulated for content. Political advertising is no different then advertising of any other kind and should be regulated just like a beer ad.
If just these three things were done we would go a long way towards fixing the problem. No plan is perfect and of course the rich and the powerful of this country will not be detered easily after all they benefit from the status quo but we have to start someplace and do something.
Of course you are absolutely right. Companies seem to think they own a particular word or phrase. A recent story indicated that whatshappening.com was suing quepasa.com. Here is a company which feels entitled no only to the words "what's" and "happening" but to all translations of thaose words in all other languages.
The question is can you be a liberterian and be opposed to cybersquatting. I say no. Squatting is a perfectly legit business venture.
Freedom is a funny thing. Of course you can not have absolute freedom because it means denying everybody else theirs. Somewhere a line needs to be drawn between what I want and what you want. The question is what makes a country more free then another one? You said "America is legally a pretty unencumbered, free country." which on the face it sounds reasonable but what do you base that on?
Does america have less laws on the books then other countries? I once had to look up something in the Montana code annotated and I was shocked at the sheer volume of state laws I was subjected to. I was expected to be familiar with these laws which just about impossible to decipher if you are not a lawyer. Of course this was just the state laws, I could only imagine the federal statutes I was subject to not to mention city and county codes. One could spend an entire lifetime and never read the laws one is subject to. Doesn't America imprison a greater percentage of it's citizens then any other country? Is it in top five? top ten? Shouldn't that be a factor to consider when you are trying to judge the relative freedom of a country? Aren't corporations which house the prison population allowed to lobby congress for tougher laws (to increase product therefore profit). Is this a mark of a free society? Doesn't America use it's prison population to provide low cost labor to corporations? Yes it does look it up. Is this a mark of a free country? Doesn't America execute certain prisoners? How many other countries do that?
I would invite the slashdot community to come up a with a definition of a free and just country and then see if we measure up. Americans have an infinite capacity for self delusion and an immense sense of self importance. It would be interesting to see how it would stack up when judged by a relatively objective set of criterea.
I too am an ex Ecco usr. I use Info Select as my PIM now. It's made by Micro Logic and totally kicks butt. Check it out you won't be disappointed. I don't know if they have a Linux ver tho.
Why? Why would anyone in their right minds eat this stuff? I hope nobody buys it.
"go to whatever doctor they please?"
Can you? Millions of people in America can't even go to ANY doctor because they can't afford it. You can't go to any donctor you please you have to go to the doctor your HMO (or health plan) says. If you don't have insurance then you are pretty much SOL. Break a leg and it costs you 10 grand.
"keep a majority of what they earn?"
Do you? Add up all of your taxes some time. Better yet see what you are getting in return. Free health care? Safe streets? Free education?
"own a gun?"
Oh yea this is a good idea get me a gun so I can shoot all the idiots
"ride on a non-car transportation system (i.e. train, bus) that isn't owned or regulated to practical ownership by the gov't?"
Why do you care who owns it? What possible concern is it to you? Who owns the chicago transit authority? the new york subway system? Aren't all transportation systems in the US regulated?
"take a medicine whether or not the gov't health agency says they can?"
So tell me where I can get non FDA approved drugs. Oh yea go to Mexico.
"It doesn't matter if you will be summarily shot or given an elaborate trial before you are killed/inprisoned/fined if the thing you are being punished for should not be illegal"
So tell me again which country imprisons the greatest percentage of it's population.? Which countries actually kill law breakers?
"Actually HP gurantees that they will provide support, they gurantee the hardware and software. They don't gurantee it won't crash, but for the several thousand a month we pay for a service contract, they do gurantee the system."
I don't get it what are they guaranteeing? Are they guaranteeing the somebody will be there when you call or are they guaranteeing that their software works as advertised? What you are describing sounds like a service contract. You can get service contracts from many companies.
"No way in hell i can gurantee a Linux box that has a new release and new kernel every 6 months. i can't possibly tell my boss i need a 20,000 dollar support contract just for the latest version."
Once again I am confused. What 20K? Why do you have to upgrade? I can see if there is some new feature you want in the kernel upgrading but that's always went pretty smoothly for me. If you have a service contract then wouln't that include any upgrading of your OS? Why are willing to pay several thousands of dollays per month to HP for a service contract and not some other company?
"Money is nice to have, I'll give you that. However, I fail to see how a system of government that makes it more difficult for one to accumulate excessive wealth could be considered repressive."
What I find most ironic is that Americans are so religious. Last I checked something like 70% of americans go to church on a regular basis. Considering the fact that Jesus regularly spoke out aginst greed, excess wealth, and usury (interest) it boggles my mind how Americans are able to reconcile these things in their head. I don't think Jesus ever once said "your goal in life should be to accumulate as much wealth as possible" or "Society should be structured so that 2% of the people should control 90% of the wealth" or "business should promote envy and covetousness through the use of advertising". Of course I should not pick on the Xtians all religions belive in these concepts of sharing, charity, and spiritual developement over gathering riches. Most even say that you can't have both riches and heaven (something about a camel and an eye of a needle). Anyhoo what do I know I don't even believe in god, besides I am the only person in the whole world who recognizes that corporations are created to shirk personal responsibility. Makes you wonder how liberterians get their heads around that one.
"I love linux, i'm not dissing it, i love open source, its agreat concept. but for business, it needs something i can gurantee my job and and the company can gurantee its data on. not just something i get for free or something i can look at the source at.. "
Unfortunately there are no guarantees in life or software. Nobody guarantees their software not Red Hat, not Microsoft not Sun. With Linux at least you get to look at the source and fix it if goes haywire on you. The minute you find a software company that guarantees their software will work as advertised let me know THAT would be big news.
Somebody moderate this one up!. The people around here are liberterian when it comes to everything else but this. We really need to have a conversation about this on slashdot.
If this is the case then sun should stop deceiving people into thinking that this is open source. Whenever Sun talks to the press they talk as if their licence is open source. Nobody is saying give me software for free what we are saying is. 1) stop lying to the press and the public. 2) Don't expect much from us. I still think some people will end up working for sun for free but I don't think it will be many people at all
Yes excellant Idea. It certainly would make the life of a busy network administrator easier. I say even make it once a week. Does anybody have a autorpm script for this? If you do please email to me.
Slashdot Mirror
Do you remember RIP terms. they did some simple gui type stuff and were designed to work on 386 class machines and 1200 baud modems. I wonder where that technology is now and if it could be extended to work over TCP/IP.
I think some sort of a universal client is sorely needed. Something stateful, something with a decent GUI, something easy to program, something that would work with any OS. Am I asking for too much or are we perpetually relegated to mixing HTML, Javascript, CF/ASP/PHP code together in files and hope to make something work.
1) Strip first amendmend rights from corporations. They are not human beings they should not have first amendment rights.
2) Prohibit corporations from participating in the electoral process. Sorry you are not a human being you can not have any say in how the country is run.
3) Separate advertsing from speech. Consider it like a volume limit. I am not able to blare a bullhorn at 150 decibels while shouting "vote for me!". All we have to do is equate the amount of advertising to a volume control. Just like the noise regulations limit my ability to broadcast limits on political advertising can limit the "volume" of political ads"
These are all easily doable and are common sense appraches to real problem. None of the above would limit the free speech of a human being nor prevent a human being from giving all the money he /she wants to a political organization. If Bill G. wants to give a billion to Bill C. let him, just don't let MS do it. It also would not prohibit human beings to lobby congress. Corporations should not have first amendmend rights.
Now let me ask you a question. Does a corporation have second amendment rights? Can it arm itself?
Oil is cheapest because it's the most plentiful. Once it runs out (and it will because there is not an infinite supply) every thing else will be much more expensive and harder to harvest.
Ok let me see if I can make myself more clear. The constitution gurantees you the right to free speech. The constitution does not guarantee the right to bradcast that speech. Broadcasting is regulated. If for example you are using a bullhorn or a microphone and amplifier to speak you will be subject to noise regulations of the neighborhood you are speaking in. In my community there is a decibal limit as well as a time limit (no loud noises after 10:00 pm). Airwaves are already being regulated with all kinds of limitations on speech. Can you curse on the air? why not? isn't it speech?. What exactly is the difference between a corporation running an ad for cleaner underware and one advocating loosening air quality laws so they can dump more toxins into the air? Why is one free speech and the other not-so-free speech.
The airwaves are regulated.
Isn't that the main selling point for VB. You can use controls other made. MS hypes the bound control control thing to no end. It's supposed to make your life easy. Don't blame the programmer who is trying to use some control blame the idiot who wrote a unusable and crappy control.
How come it's not free for everyone in the US. Is M$ encouraging piracy in China? Are the Chinese inherently prone to stealing? If M$ is not willing to protect their intellectual property in China can they be prevented from trying to protect it in the US? and finally what is so different about china? M$ sued a bunch of companies in Korea didn't they?
You say this as if it was some law of physics or something. It's just an interpretation of the constitution. I say that this interpretation of speech is plainly wrong. Preventing or limiting buying of air time does not prevent anyone from speaking. I say speech is what comes out of your mouth not how far you can broadcast it.
It comes as no surprise to me that the definition of speech has been expanded to include advertising. After all it benefits the rich and powerful. It benefits the rich people who own the media, it benefits the rich people who can shout down the working people and the poor, and it benefits the incumbents who raise more money. It would take an enourmous amount of grass roots effort to take away this advantage from the incumbents but I think it can be done. After all it's not like you are trying to change the gravitational constant.
And make no mistake about they are arming themselves as we speak. Think Oklahoma City.
Nobody was talking about value. The fact is the rich got rich because everybody else gave them some money in return for something. I have given MS thousands of dollars of my hard earned money. I tried my best to pass those costs on to people who I did business with. The fact remains somebody in the end lost and somebody in the end won. Bill G. won because he got my money. My customers lost because they I recouped my losses on their backs. In the end of course the consumers all lost because they could not pass along those expenses.
As for how money gets created. Money get created by fiat by the central banks and the govt. The economy is not a zero sum game but It is a game. Money gets created whenever interest is charged. When you are charged interest you are expected to somehow "find" this extra money. To do this you have to fight with everybody else to get theirs after all you are not allowed to create it by just printing up some. In short money flows from those who are charged interest to those charging interest.
Thing like productivity require either people (who need to eat, drink and breathe) or machinery (which needs energy and materials). Even though the economy is not a zero sum game the natural resouces game is.
If you want a great explanation of how money works check this out
All fine and dandy except that what you are speaking about is spiritual goals. Those same spiritual goals advocated by Jesus, Budha, and Mohammed as well as as thousands of enlightened persons all over the world. Unfortunately spiritually advanced people don't own media ro corporations and they certainly aren't in the government. You see shallow baseless desire is the grease that makes our economic engine turn. Without the seven deadly sins (greed, gluttony, covetousness etc) the economy would collapse and Bill G. and Rupert M. et al could no longer be rich. Face it. The economic system of the entire world is in opposition to the spiritual values.
Take a microsecond and think about what kind of world it would be if everybody ran around living like Jesus did. It sure would look different wouldn't it.
What are you saying exactly? You can't complain about your senator unless you run yourself? That anybody who disagrees with you must not have voted? where do you get this from?
"I'm left wondering how the mega-corporations would get away with this when wrongful death suits were filed."
Interesting. What you are saying is that the lives of human beings should be protected by the civil courts rather then the legislature. Let's say that some chemical company decided that it was much cheaper to dump cyanide in my backyard then to dispose of it properly. You are saying that there should be no law against this. You are saying all I have to do is to sue them in civil court. Hire a lawyer who is willing to work for me for nothing or pretty cheap and go against the army of lawyers working for this other company. Let them drag the case out for about 20 years and if I haven't died of cancer by then hope for a jury to hand down a verdict. Of course if the business did not pay on the judgement I would have to sue them again in civil court right?
Wow what a great way to run a country. All we gotta do now is just find some judges who can not be bribed and some lawyers willing to work for 20 years for free.
If just these three things were done we would go a long way towards fixing the problem. No plan is perfect and of course the rich and the powerful of this country will not be detered easily after all they benefit from the status quo but we have to start someplace and do something.
Of course you are absolutely right. Companies seem to think they own a particular word or phrase. A recent story indicated that whatshappening.com was suing quepasa.com. Here is a company which feels entitled no only to the words "what's" and "happening" but to all translations of thaose words in all other languages.
The question is can you be a liberterian and be opposed to cybersquatting. I say no. Squatting is a perfectly legit business venture.
Does america have less laws on the books then other countries? I once had to look up something in the Montana code annotated and I was shocked at the sheer volume of state laws I was subjected to. I was expected to be familiar with these laws which just about impossible to decipher if you are not a lawyer. Of course this was just the state laws, I could only imagine the federal statutes I was subject to not to mention city and county codes. One could spend an entire lifetime and never read the laws one is subject to.
Doesn't America imprison a greater percentage of it's citizens then any other country? Is it in top five? top ten? Shouldn't that be a factor to consider when you are trying to judge the relative freedom of a country?
Aren't corporations which house the prison population allowed to lobby congress for tougher laws (to increase product therefore profit). Is this a mark of a free society?
Doesn't America use it's prison population to provide low cost labor to corporations? Yes it does look it up. Is this a mark of a free country?
Doesn't America execute certain prisoners? How many other countries do that?
I would invite the slashdot community to come up a with a definition of a free and just country and then see if we measure up. Americans have an infinite capacity for self delusion and an immense sense of self importance. It would be interesting to see how it would stack up when judged by a relatively objective set of criterea.
I too am an ex Ecco usr. I use Info Select as my PIM now. It's made by Micro Logic and totally kicks butt. Check it out you won't be disappointed. I don't know if they have a Linux ver tho.
Why? what's wrong with the cows in Europe?
"soon, buy genetically modified food?"
Why? Why would anyone in their right minds eat this stuff? I hope nobody buys it.
"go to whatever doctor they please?"
Can you? Millions of people in America can't even go to ANY doctor because they can't afford it. You can't go to any donctor you please you have to go to the doctor your HMO (or health plan) says. If you don't have insurance then you are pretty much SOL. Break a leg and it costs you 10 grand.
"keep a majority of what they earn?"
Do you? Add up all of your taxes some time. Better yet see what you are getting in return. Free health care? Safe streets? Free education?
"own a gun?"
Oh yea this is a good idea get me a gun so I can shoot all the idiots
"ride on a non-car transportation system (i.e. train, bus) that isn't owned or regulated to practical ownership by the gov't?"
Why do you care who owns it? What possible concern is it to you? Who owns the chicago transit authority? the new york subway system? Aren't all transportation systems in the US regulated?
"take a medicine whether or not the gov't health agency says they can?"
So tell me where I can get non FDA approved drugs. Oh yea go to Mexico.
"It doesn't matter if you will be summarily shot or given an elaborate trial before you are killed/inprisoned/fined if the thing you are being punished for should not be illegal"
So tell me again which country imprisons the greatest percentage of it's population.? Which countries actually kill law breakers?
I don't get it what are they guaranteeing? Are they guaranteeing the somebody will be there when you call or are they guaranteeing that their software works as advertised? What you are describing sounds like a service contract. You can get service contracts from many companies.
"No way in hell i can gurantee a Linux box that has a new release and new kernel every 6 months. i can't possibly tell my boss i need a 20,000 dollar support contract just for the latest version."
Once again I am confused. What 20K? Why do you have to upgrade? I can see if there is some new feature you want in the kernel upgrading but that's always went pretty smoothly for me. If you have a service contract then wouln't that include any upgrading of your OS? Why are willing to pay several thousands of dollays per month to HP for a service contract and not some other company?
"Money is nice to have, I'll give you that. However, I fail to see how a system of government that makes it more difficult for one to accumulate excessive wealth could be considered repressive."
What I find most ironic is that Americans are so religious. Last I checked something like 70% of americans go to church on a regular basis. Considering the fact that Jesus regularly spoke out aginst greed, excess wealth, and usury (interest) it boggles my mind how Americans are able to reconcile these things in their head. I don't think Jesus ever once said "your goal in life should be to accumulate as much wealth as possible" or "Society should be structured so that 2% of the people should control 90% of the wealth" or "business should promote envy and covetousness through the use of advertising".
Of course I should not pick on the Xtians all religions belive in these concepts of sharing, charity, and spiritual developement over gathering riches. Most even say that you can't have both riches and heaven (something about a camel and an eye of a needle).
Anyhoo what do I know I don't even believe in god, besides I am the only person in the whole world who recognizes that corporations are created to shirk personal responsibility. Makes you wonder how liberterians get their heads around that one.
"It depends what you consider rich."
How about "I own my own jet". Until that happens you can't call yourself rich.
"I love linux, i'm not dissing it, i love open source, its agreat concept. but for business, it needs something i can gurantee my job and and the company can gurantee its data on. not just something i get for free or something i can look at the source at.. "
Unfortunately there are no guarantees in life or software. Nobody guarantees their software not Red Hat, not Microsoft not Sun. With Linux at least you get to look at the source and fix it if goes haywire on you. The minute you find a software company that guarantees their software will work as advertised let me know THAT would be big news.
Read your EULA!
Somebody moderate this one up!. The people around here are liberterian when it comes to everything else but this. We really need to have a conversation about this on slashdot.
If this is the case then sun should stop deceiving people into thinking that this is open source. Whenever Sun talks to the press they talk as if their licence is open source. Nobody is saying give me software for free what we are saying is. 1) stop lying to the press and the public. 2) Don't expect much from us.
I still think some people will end up working for sun for free but I don't think it will be many people at all
Yes excellant Idea. It certainly would make the life of a busy network administrator easier. I say even make it once a week. Does anybody have a autorpm script for this? If you do please email to me.