You are going around spreading FUD by telling lies about the JVM and the.net CLR.
"I have not pledged myself to any corporation"
If not then what possible pleasure do you get from lying for them on slashdot. Perhaps you are getting paid to do so but if you are not then what are your motivations?
"I grow so tired of juveniles such as yourself going around spreading FUD, lies and other crap. "
First of all I am not a juvenile and secondly I did not lie. This is stark contrast with your posts and of course every press release by every executive of MS. I have not read one press release, one speech, one debate or one snippet from Gates, Ballmer, Allchin etc which did not contain at least one lie. Apparently you are very comfortable about corporations lying to you and by advocating for them here on slashdot you are encouraging them to keep lying to all of us. Of course in the light of all the lies of Gates and his mafioso your claim of "I have only pledged myself to protecting truth." seems a bit silly doesn't it? If you are dedicated to the truth perhaps you can explain your lies about the java VM and object inheritance. Is it possible to write an object in python and inherit it from java in the JVM? If so why did you lie about it. Could it be becasue you were spreading FUD for a corporation?
Corporations lie pathologically. Every advertisement is a lie, every press release is a lie. If they were forced to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" they would have to shut up.
" It's not my job to do your research"
yes it is. It's the job of every investor to see how MS is cooking the books to inflate their values. In the wake of Enron it's especially important to see how many entities are used to hide debts, how MS buys and sells it's own stock to pad nubmers, and how it makes shady accounting decisions about the stock options. This information is available on the web I urge you to check it out before you lose all your money.
"Some changes need to be made". That's like saying the terrorists caused "some damage". Great amny changes will need to be made to go from VB to VB.NET and a shitload more to go from C++ to C#. Both circumstances will require a complete rewrite by and large.
"When people ask "why do you write some components in VB and not C, since C is faster and less bloated?""
That scenario makes sense in a compiled environment. In the.net environment where everything is running the same VM the speed or C is gone and the bloat the same for all languages. At that point the data structures are more important then languages. In other words the Vm is an equalizer. It will force some languages to shed it's core competencies (like multiple inheritance) and it will force other languages to add features. In the end all languages will essentially have the same features and will run at the same speed. The only factor to consider will be syntantic sugar and clarity. Since C# is the first (and so far only) "native" language of.net it makes sense to just use that unless you have some objection to it's syntax.
Teh consumer does not choose that is the whole result of a monopoly. For most for the consumers there is no choice. You saying otherwise does not make it true.
You don't have to believe me. Go do the research yourself.
BTW. When I was in high school there were all these kids who would argue about ford vs chevy, or nike vs addidas. Somehow these poor fucks had deluded themselves that they were cool because they pledged allegience to one corporation or another. They would wear the logos all over themselves thinking perhaps that they were not as lame or ugly with them on.
What I find astounding is that mentality is still alive and well. People like yourself have somehow convinced yourself by rooting for a corporation like MS you are cooler or better looking then you really are. Take my advice you are not. It makes you look like a dupe when you extoll the virtues of some large corporation which does not give a flying fuck about you or your feeble efforts on slashdot.
I may be a troll but at least I am a troll for ideals not some fucking corporation.
That's only because VB sucks. If VB was good enough you would have written the entire thing in it. But you and I both know that it's not really suitable for that kind of work. In the.net environment all languages run the same speed and because they have to have sturctures will end up pretty much the same. In that environment it makes no sense to use 2 or 5 languages. Just use the one with the clearest syntax and in this case it's C#.
It's not like you will be able to just compile your existing C++ or VB code and run them under.net anyways. Your entire application will have to be re-written.
Maybe you believe that but I don't. You are right the market for the desktop can not grow all that much so now they will force their desktop users to use other MS products like passport, MSN etc. That way then can monopolize other markets too. That's the way markets work. The rich win everybody else loses. The market is all about winners and losers. In this case MS is a winner and everybody else is a loser (especially the consumer).
Re:You're kidding about that Terrorism thing...
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"Bombing discos and pizza parlors is not exactly the best way to go about achieving that"
It's the only weapon they have. They have no anti aircraft weapons to defend against helicopter raids and bombers. They have no tanks to defend against tanks shelling their houses. The have no shoulder fired missiles or artilery to defend agains army incursions. They are disarmed and therefore can only fight back with hand made weapons like bombs. They have no choice in the matter. Apparently like most people you don't consider arabs as real human beings to you they must seem like roaches or something. the reason I say that is because you mention bombing of discos but you say nothing about missiles hitting hospitals and homes of people. In fact the death ratio of arabs to jews is greater then 10 to 1. For every disco goer killed more then 10 arabs are killed. Not to mention thousands of homes destroyed, families displaced etc.
"Before there can ever be peace in that region, arab terrorism must be stopped from within"
How about israeli terrorism. Will that stop? Will they stop abducting and torturing people? Will they stop buldozing houses? will they stop invading and shelling? No. If they protest peacefully the israelis will gleefully mow them down. If the deaths of tens of thousands arabs so far have not forced the US or Europe to lift a finger and the death of another hundred thousand won't either. Remeber these are dark people who are muslims. No way in hell any american or european will see them as actual human beings who suffer. To them (like to you) they might as well be cockroaches.
I think you are overstating. Sure every windows developer will use.net and C# (what choice do they have). But believe it or not most corporations run a mixed OS environment. For them cross platform is much more important then cross language. As long as.NET stays a windows only platform it will be just another COM/DCOM/whatever. Sure MS will give lip service the CLR being able run on other platform but even the stupidest of the stupid will not buy into that lie. After all MS said the same thing about COM and IE.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster and a support nightmare to me. Who in their right mind would decide that an application should be written in 5 different languages?
Also: My guess is that in order to write a CLR compliant class you will have to forgo some features of perl. I would bet that it would be easier just to write the damn thing c# in the first place.
Yes but now that hey have a monopoly they are no longer interested in what the consumer wants.
Re:You're kidding about that Terrorism thing...
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"Besides, the jews owned some of that area before that, so you can't always use the "original owner" argument. "
when? Two thousand years ago? I am talking about post world war modern era here.
"But they completely refuse to accept anything less than total elimination of Israel."
This is pure bullshit. A flat out lie. The palestenian authority does in fact recognize the right of israel to exist. So do most other arab nations. They have to or we will kill them (we will kill them anyway but that's another story). They want israel to pull out of occupied terrotories, they want a nation with jerisalem as it's capital, they want the right to return to their homes. That's all. It was all laid in the Oslo occords. It's the israelis who do not want peace. Peace means they have to leave the settlements, peace means losing cheap arab labor, peace means the flood of money from the US will ease, peace means they will have to stop torturing people and start respecting human rights.
Re:OK, let's kill soldiers instead.
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There are many responses to violence. From forgiving the person to punching them back. The US respopnse being punched in the face is to cut the guys arms off, tie him to a chair, sodomize his children, evicirate his wife in front of him and his children. Then when we see our reflection in his eyes we carve out his eyes.
I can condemn the punch in the face AND condemn sodomizing small children as a response too. You on the other hand can't. To you and the people like you every form of violence is justified in response to a punch in the face.
If the US was a person it would be a mass murderer. A psychotic who has no ability to control his impulses, no ability to understand the suffering of others, and no ability to tell the difference between good and evil. The only feelings this country are able feel are pain, pleasure and rage. Right now we are in a bloodthirsty rage and you and people like you are all to willing to feed that emotion in the country. Unfortunately poor misrable people all over the world are going to die by the hundreds of thousands. Somalia, Philipines, malasia, yemen, sudan, iraq, iran it does not seem to matter that these people are already starving we are going to bomb them anyway.
What the hell they are all niggers to you anyway right? They all deserved to die because Rumsfeld said so right?
Re:Improve your reading comprehension
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Yes that's better then actually thinking about things.
Re:Improve your reading comprehension
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Oh yea that makes it all better I guess huh? It's perfectly OK for people living in democracies to kill people who are not living in democracies.
No we do not drop bombs on democracies. For them we use the other kind of war. All over central america (all democracies) we trained and funded death squads does that count?. We got rid of a democratically elected ruler of iran and installed the shah does that count?. We prevent democracy in saudi arabia by propping up an opressive monarchy does that count? We funded guerillas in nicaragua does that count? We bombed panama does that count? We bombed somalia does that count they have a democracy. We are right now moving into the philipines does that count?
should I go on?
Re:You're kidding about that Terrorism thing...
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Listen. For thousands of years the palestenians were living there. Then one day they were told told to pack out because their country was being handed over to their enemies. Of course they attacked what were you expecting. The israel and their attack dog (the US) proceeded to kill the arabs wholesale. In the end israel got established and the arabs became second class citizens in a country they once lived in.
Since then Israel has broken every international law. It started a campaign of genocide against the arabs and it's still on that path. It's nazi germany all over again and just like then the world watches as an occupying nation proceeds in ethnic cleansing.
Microsoft can not afford to let apple go out of business. They will bail them out again just like they did before.
Re:OK, let's kill soldiers instead.
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What if you punched them in the face and they killed your wife, your kids, your neigbors. What if they reduced your town to rubble with carpet bombing. What if they destroyed all the electrical plants so that nobody had any electricty for hundreds of miles. What if they blocked all the highways and caused your entire state to starve to death. All becaused you punched them in the face. What if they decided that was not enough and laid siege to your town fortwenty years dropping bombs on you whenever they felt like it.
Is that moral?
Re:OK, let's kill soldiers instead.
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Regardless of what it cost. Generally speaking wars are great for the economy. This war is already lifting us out of the recession. Those bombs are made by americans who get paid. More people we kill more people we employ. The defense sector was suffering now it's booming again.
Wars are great for the economy (ours anyways).
Re:OK, let's kill soldiers instead.
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I am ashamed to be an american when I read stuff like this.
Re:But these were non hostile
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"Well this is quite a conundrum. History shows that democracies almost never go into conflict with each other, yet you seem to be claiming that only people in a democracy can be legitimately held responsible for military attacks."
This is aflat out lie. The US is a democracy and I can't think of a 10 year timespan in recent history where we were not killing some people in some part of the world. Sure we were not fighting people who could fight back and were only killing weak poor people who were not going to buy brittney spears albums anyway but fact remain. America is a dmocracy and it can not go ten years without declaring a war on somebody.
Also there are agressions that are not wars. Often we fund people like pinochet, we train death squads, we prop up tyrants, we fund israel etc. tyrants, torturers and evil people all over the world can count on our support to kill people on our behalf. We don't have to declare war because we have found evil people willing to do the killing for us. If you count these types of covert wars I would guess that we enter into a war every three to five years.
Re:But these were non hostile
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Why not just kill everybody then. Sure the people of somalia are begging. They are begging for their lives. They know the US is willing to commit genocide against their people they are begging for their lives to be spared. Of course it will not help. We kill them by the hundreds of thousands even though they did nothing against us. Like you most of america and the govt gets a hard on about killing niggers and rag heads. it gives them a rush.
You live in a black and white world. We must kill them all or they will kill us. Apparently you actually believe that somalians are willing and able to kill americans by the thousands. Like most americans you live in a world of delusion. If you leave them alone I guarantee you they will not do anything to you. Most of them are starving and don't have the energy to kill you or your soldiers.
I know you will be dancing in the streets when CNN broadcasts the bombings in philipines, somalia, iraq, iran and everywhere else where poor dark people live but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's somehow moral. If you were God how would you judge?
Re:Economic imbalance is the issue here
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Simple. They killed three thousand people. We have already killed almost two million civilians in iraq. Hell we have killed three thousand civilians in afghanistan already. Of course to be a true accounting you should count the so called "taliban" that were killed who had nothing to do with anything that happened in NY and I imagine that number is in the hundreds of thousands. unfortunately we don't live in a country with a free press so we'll never know.
If the ratio was reversed by a terrorist attack in the US then the public might change it's mind. If the terrorists spread some deadly disease and killed a couple of million we might take notice. If they exploded a nuclear device in a large city like LA or Chicago or houston we might notice.
three thousand people died, it's sad and tragic but let's be real. More then that die every week from smoking.
Slashdot Mirror
You are going around spreading FUD by telling lies about the JVM and the .net CLR.
"I have not pledged myself to any corporation"
If not then what possible pleasure do you get from lying for them on slashdot. Perhaps you are getting paid to do so but if you are not then what are your motivations?
"I grow so tired of juveniles such as yourself going around spreading FUD, lies and other crap. "
First of all I am not a juvenile and secondly I did not lie. This is stark contrast with your posts and of course every press release by every executive of MS. I have not read one press release, one speech, one debate or one snippet from Gates, Ballmer, Allchin etc which did not contain at least one lie. Apparently you are very comfortable about corporations lying to you and by advocating for them here on slashdot you are encouraging them to keep lying to all of us. Of course in the light of all the lies of Gates and his mafioso your claim of "I have only pledged myself to protecting truth." seems a bit silly doesn't it? If you are dedicated to the truth perhaps you can explain your lies about the java VM and object inheritance. Is it possible to write an object in python and inherit it from java in the JVM? If so why did you lie about it. Could it be becasue you were spreading FUD for a corporation?
Corporations lie pathologically. Every advertisement is a lie, every press release is a lie. If they were forced to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" they would have to shut up.
" It's not my job to do your research"
yes it is. It's the job of every investor to see how MS is cooking the books to inflate their values. In the wake of Enron it's especially important to see how many entities are used to hide debts, how MS buys and sells it's own stock to pad nubmers, and how it makes shady accounting decisions about the stock options. This information is available on the web I urge you to check it out before you lose all your money.
"Some changes need to be made". That's like saying the terrorists caused "some damage". Great amny changes will need to be made to go from VB to VB.NET and a shitload more to go from C++ to C#. Both circumstances will require a complete rewrite by and large.
.net environment where everything is running the same VM the speed or C is gone and the bloat the same for all languages. At that point the data structures are more important then languages. In other words the Vm is an equalizer. It will force some languages to shed it's core competencies (like multiple inheritance) and it will force other languages to add features. In the end all languages will essentially have the same features and will run at the same speed. The only factor to consider will be syntantic sugar and clarity. Since C# is the first (and so far only) "native" language of .net it makes sense to just use that unless you have some objection to it's syntax.
"When people ask "why do you write some components in VB and not C, since C is faster and less bloated?""
That scenario makes sense in a compiled environment. In the
Teh consumer does not choose that is the whole result of a monopoly. For most for the consumers there is no choice. You saying otherwise does not make it true.
You don't have to believe me. Go do the research yourself.
BTW. When I was in high school there were all these kids who would argue about ford vs chevy, or nike vs addidas. Somehow these poor fucks had deluded themselves that they were cool because they pledged allegience to one corporation or another. They would wear the logos all over themselves thinking perhaps that they were not as lame or ugly with them on.
What I find astounding is that mentality is still alive and well. People like yourself have somehow convinced yourself by rooting for a corporation like MS you are cooler or better looking then you really are. Take my advice you are not. It makes you look like a dupe when you extoll the virtues of some large corporation which does not give a flying fuck about you or your feeble efforts on slashdot.
I may be a troll but at least I am a troll for ideals not some fucking corporation.
That's only because VB sucks. If VB was good enough you would have written the entire thing in it. But you and I both know that it's not really suitable for that kind of work. In the .net environment all languages run the same speed and because they have to have sturctures will end up pretty much the same. In that environment it makes no sense to use 2 or 5 languages. Just use the one with the clearest syntax and in this case it's C#.
.net anyways. Your entire application will have to be re-written.
It's not like you will be able to just compile your existing C++ or VB code and run them under
Maybe you believe that but I don't. You are right the market for the desktop can not grow all that much so now they will force their desktop users to use other MS products like passport, MSN etc. That way then can monopolize other markets too. That's the way markets work. The rich win everybody else loses. The market is all about winners and losers. In this case MS is a winner and everybody else is a loser (especially the consumer).
"Bombing discos and pizza parlors is not exactly the best way to go about achieving that"
It's the only weapon they have. They have no anti aircraft weapons to defend against helicopter raids and bombers. They have no tanks to defend against tanks shelling their houses. The have no shoulder fired missiles or artilery to defend agains army incursions. They are disarmed and therefore can only fight back with hand made weapons like bombs. They have no choice in the matter. Apparently like most people you don't consider arabs as real human beings to you they must seem like roaches or something. the reason I say that is because you mention bombing of discos but you say nothing about missiles hitting hospitals and homes of people. In fact the death ratio of arabs to jews is greater then 10 to 1. For every disco goer killed more then 10 arabs are killed. Not to mention thousands of homes destroyed, families displaced etc.
"Before there can ever be peace in that region, arab terrorism must be stopped from within"
How about israeli terrorism. Will that stop? Will they stop abducting and torturing people? Will they stop buldozing houses? will they stop invading and shelling? No. If they protest peacefully the israelis will gleefully mow them down. If the deaths of tens of thousands arabs so far have not forced the US or Europe to lift a finger and the death of another hundred thousand won't either. Remeber these are dark people who are muslims. No way in hell any american or european will see them as actual human beings who suffer. To them (like to you) they might as well be cockroaches.
Don't kid yourself MS is playing the same kind of accounting tricks enron did.
"is this what you mean by integration at the object level?"
no he was just lying. It's called spreading FUD. MS has lots of trolls on slashdot doing that all the time.
I think you are overstating. Sure every windows developer will use .net and C# (what choice do they have). But believe it or not most corporations run a mixed OS environment. For them cross platform is much more important then cross language. As long as .NET stays a windows only platform it will be just another COM/DCOM/whatever. Sure MS will give lip service the CLR being able run on other platform but even the stupidest of the stupid will not buy into that lie. After all MS said the same thing about COM and IE.
Sounds like a recipe for disaster and a support nightmare to me. Who in their right mind would decide that an application should be written in 5 different languages?
Also: My guess is that in order to write a CLR compliant class you will have to forgo some features of perl. I would bet that it would be easier just to write the damn thing c# in the first place.
They are more like a cult then a company. Complete with a charismatic leader and a jesus figure. They really remind of the scientologists no kidding.
Yes but now that hey have a monopoly they are no longer interested in what the consumer wants.
"Besides, the jews owned some of that area before that, so you can't always use the "original owner" argument. "
when? Two thousand years ago? I am talking about post world war modern era here.
"But they completely refuse to accept anything less than total elimination of Israel."
This is pure bullshit. A flat out lie. The palestenian authority does in fact recognize the right of israel to exist. So do most other arab nations. They have to or we will kill them (we will kill them anyway but that's another story). They want israel to pull out of occupied terrotories, they want a nation with jerisalem as it's capital, they want the right to return to their homes. That's all. It was all laid in the Oslo occords. It's the israelis who do not want peace. Peace means they have to leave the settlements, peace means losing cheap arab labor, peace means the flood of money from the US will ease, peace means they will have to stop torturing people and start respecting human rights.
There are many responses to violence. From forgiving the person to punching them back. The US respopnse being punched in the face is to cut the guys arms off, tie him to a chair, sodomize his children, evicirate his wife in front of him and his children. Then when we see our reflection in his eyes we carve out his eyes.
I can condemn the punch in the face AND condemn sodomizing small children as a response too. You on the other hand can't. To you and the people like you every form of violence is justified in response to a punch in the face.
If the US was a person it would be a mass murderer. A psychotic who has no ability to control his impulses, no ability to understand the suffering of others, and no ability to tell the difference between good and evil. The only feelings this country are able feel are pain, pleasure and rage. Right now we are in a bloodthirsty rage and you and people like you are all to willing to feed that emotion in the country. Unfortunately poor misrable people all over the world are going to die by the hundreds of thousands. Somalia, Philipines, malasia, yemen, sudan, iraq, iran it does not seem to matter that these people are already starving we are going to bomb them anyway.
What the hell they are all niggers to you anyway right? They all deserved to die because Rumsfeld said so right?
Yes that's better then actually thinking about things.
Oh yea that makes it all better I guess huh? It's perfectly OK for people living in democracies to kill people who are not living in democracies.
No we do not drop bombs on democracies. For them we use the other kind of war. All over central america (all democracies) we trained and funded death squads does that count?. We got rid of a democratically elected ruler of iran and installed the shah does that count?. We prevent democracy in saudi arabia by propping up an opressive monarchy does that count? We funded guerillas in nicaragua does that count? We bombed panama does that count? We bombed somalia does that count they have a democracy. We are right now moving into the philipines does that count?
should I go on?
Listen. For thousands of years the palestenians were living there. Then one day they were told told to pack out because their country was being handed over to their enemies. Of course they attacked what were you expecting. The israel and their attack dog (the US) proceeded to kill the arabs wholesale. In the end israel got established and the arabs became second class citizens in a country they once lived in.
Since then Israel has broken every international law. It started a campaign of genocide against the arabs and it's still on that path. It's nazi germany all over again and just like then the world watches as an occupying nation proceeds in ethnic cleansing.
Microsoft can not afford to let apple go out of business. They will bail them out again just like they did before.
What if you punched them in the face and they killed your wife, your kids, your neigbors. What if they reduced your town to rubble with carpet bombing. What if they destroyed all the electrical plants so that nobody had any electricty for hundreds of miles. What if they blocked all the highways and caused your entire state to starve to death. All becaused you punched them in the face. What if they decided that was not enough and laid siege to your town fortwenty years dropping bombs on you whenever they felt like it.
Is that moral?
Regardless of what it cost. Generally speaking wars are great for the economy. This war is already lifting us out of the recession. Those bombs are made by americans who get paid. More people we kill more people we employ. The defense sector was suffering now it's booming again.
Wars are great for the economy (ours anyways).
I am ashamed to be an american when I read stuff like this.
"Well this is quite a conundrum. History shows that democracies almost never go into conflict with each other, yet you seem to be claiming that only people in a democracy can be legitimately held responsible for military attacks."
This is aflat out lie. The US is a democracy and I can't think of a 10 year timespan in recent history where we were not killing some people in some part of the world. Sure we were not fighting people who could fight back and were only killing weak poor people who were not going to buy brittney spears albums anyway but fact remain. America is a dmocracy and it can not go ten years without declaring a war on somebody.
Also there are agressions that are not wars. Often we fund people like pinochet, we train death squads, we prop up tyrants, we fund israel etc. tyrants, torturers and evil people all over the world can count on our support to kill people on our behalf. We don't have to declare war because we have found evil people willing to do the killing for us. If you count these types of covert wars I would guess that we enter into a war every three to five years.
Why not just kill everybody then. Sure the people of somalia are begging. They are begging for their lives. They know the US is willing to commit genocide against their people they are begging for their lives to be spared. Of course it will not help. We kill them by the hundreds of thousands even though they did nothing against us. Like you most of america and the govt gets a hard on about killing niggers and rag heads. it gives them a rush.
You live in a black and white world. We must kill them all or they will kill us. Apparently you actually believe that somalians are willing and able to kill americans by the thousands. Like most americans you live in a world of delusion. If you leave them alone I guarantee you they will not do anything to you. Most of them are starving and don't have the energy to kill you or your soldiers.
I know you will be dancing in the streets when CNN broadcasts the bombings in philipines, somalia, iraq, iran and everywhere else where poor dark people live but don't fool yourself into thinking that it's somehow moral. If you were God how would you judge?
Simple. They killed three thousand people. We have already killed almost two million civilians in iraq. Hell we have killed three thousand civilians in afghanistan already. Of course to be a true accounting you should count the so called "taliban" that were killed who had nothing to do with anything that happened in NY and I imagine that number is in the hundreds of thousands. unfortunately we don't live in a country with a free press so we'll never know.
If the ratio was reversed by a terrorist attack in the US then the public might change it's mind. If the terrorists spread some deadly disease and killed a couple of million we might take notice. If they exploded a nuclear device in a large city like LA or Chicago or houston we might notice.
three thousand people died, it's sad and tragic but let's be real. More then that die every week from smoking.