So if I just randomly connect to people, and start sending them copies of the latest Metallica song, then they are responsible and can loose their access?
Don't forget that if you're just scanning the netwaves, you don't know (necessarily) if the destination computer is accepting the packets. So I could just be broadcasting away, raising all sorts of flags for innocent people?
However I also seem to remeber that ISPs are not responsible for what their members are transmitting, provided that they take all reasonable steps to prohibit unauthorized usage and remove any such usage once informed of it.
I also don't think that they should be responsible for it. They're just the medium. This is like suing tobacco companies or gun manufacturers... It's The American Way (tm). If you can't beat 'em, sue!! Don't get me started on that one =)...
Yeah, way back when, I was running a FTP on port 21, and got a warning from @home. However I switched the FTP to a different port, and have been running for more than one year, pushing an average of 1.5GB/day (total up/down), and have yet to hear anything. Plus when I was talking to some techies, they informed me that not only does rogers not have the capability of doing so, it's not even possible to tell how much utilization is on a particular segment, not even from being at the hardware site itself. Now this may be due to a certain set of hardware they were using, but I have also asked other techies about utilization, to which they replied "well, there are 58 of 73 modems currently turned on in your segment", and that's all the information they could give me.
So in any case, I doubt that they have the capability of telling how much bandwidth a single user is running. Due to the fact that another friend who accidentally had an FTP running on port 21 also got flagged (who had never used it), I'm assuming that they simply did a port scan to try to find servers.
Finally, if @home really cared about servers, all they would have to do is run a script that scoured napster/gnutella/etc/etc and grab any IPs that fall in their jurisdiction, match it to emails, and fire warnings off to them. Due to the fact that they have not done this (or at least not to my knowledge), leads me to believe that not only do they not care, but they are probably not charged per MB of bandwidth either, which is probably why they don't care. Man, they must have some MASSIVE FAT PIPE onto the internet. Or many many smaller ones =).
If however, we are simply "protecting a communications system" then we can sniff all day
If this is indeed legal, it's wrong to be allowed to do so. I suppose that the clients of the companies sign agreements saying that they will permit this (however do they really have any choice? You are required to work to live, and to work you must sign away some of your rights to privacy??).. I dunno, it's unsettling to know that they can lawfully do that.
I also find it very humourous, that IANAL acronym... My mind keeps parsing it to a contraction of I AM ANAL... sorry, no offence =)
There is a huge difference between being the computer that initiates a transfer, and poking in the middle of something going "what's this?". Unless they monitor all communications of everybody, they are liable to be poking in here and there, and not necessarily having the entire contextual information required to discern what it is they're looking at. OK, perhaps I chose a bad example, but it was the point behind it that I was trying to make. It's simply not possible to grasp through raw data streams to know if something you're looking at is pirated or not, without actually saving every bit that is passed to/from every client, which in itself would be a hard task to do.
Really good point... Think about how much "personal" information is currently sent over the internet in plaintext. Sure it warns you every now and then, but the chance of someone actually listening in is next-to-none. Could you imagine actually having to worry about such things?? This is crazy... There must be something wrong about that article...
Isn't this a MAJOR invasion of privacy? I can't remember exactly, but I seem to remember that ISPs were told they were NOT allowed to do that to modem users, as it violates several privacy issues. You're required to get a warrant prior to initiating any snooping whatsoever. Just like the Telephone, they can't do that!
And besides, HOW do you tell what's pirated and what's not, from random streams of data? If I download 2 movies at a time, it's going to seem like garbage (a raw stream that is). And HOW do they know that it's pirated? How can they distinguish a pirated movie from a non pirated one? Similarly with data or music, how can you tell? What are they going to do, scan for patterns that might match? Get someone to watch all movie streams and listen to all audio streams? Think about how hard it would be to figure that out. Or are they just going to scan what SITES you visit, and then ASSUME you're pirating? This is crazy!
I'm sorry, but could you imagine being a Martian and watching this thing fall from the sky, bounce, then roll around, deflate, inflate, roll around, etc, etc?? It'd be hillarious!
I was working at Panasonic when they were developing that beast. The trials were fun. They didn't really tell us (my group, cuz I was in tech support at the time) much about this book (or at least they didn't tell us that this presentation was going to be about this book), and proceeded to do a normal meeting, brought up a simple powerpoint display and then some sort of movie producing sound as well (think it was a music video or something). Then the guy unplugged the notebook, poured the rest of his coffee on it, threw it on the ground, jumped on it a few times, and then plugged it back in just as the video was finishing and the "panasonic toughbook" logo came on (although I think it was called something different back then, but I can't remember, it was like 6 years or so ago). Made for one hell of an attention getter though.
Good call. You see, those are the comments that deserve moderation points. Not those cheezy one liners and the people who happen to say something vaguely interesting (but mainly just repeating what was said in the post) within the first 20 posts.
Hmm, I've never tried this "No Score +1 Bonus" thing, wonder how it works?... You mean all it does is take away my +1 bonus? Why would I want to do that? In case I know that I'm posting a troll and want to only be able to get -2 instead of -3? Strange...
When I say that I run Linux, I am not saying "Hey, I run this great os written by one guy called Linus Torvalds". I'm saying that I run a free os that is developed by many many many people in total. Adding the GNU/ to the front of the name does nothing towards additional recognation of anyone's work. You don't mention the hardware that it was developed on, the people's names or anything else when talking about the name of your OS. Linux has become an ideal, a namesake, a beacon. It doesn't matter that little billy bob just released his version of SlippyNix 2.0, it's all part of the same cause, the same ideal. A name is not what we're fighting for here guys, it's the thought behind it. Free software (as in beer AND speech) has got to be about more than bickering and fussing about who gets to lay claim to what. We're not about laying claim guys, we're about free speech, free beer, and free ideals, or at least that's what everyone keeps professing and bitching about here.
Let's choose our real battles, everyone here, and RMS too... What's more important? GNU/Linux or Skylarov and DMCA and DeCSS and tyrany?
That's why the Stallman can claim the GNU project has a valid claim to share the Linux title. Why bother?
Are you sure that it's just not ego and inflated self image and just plain greed getting in the way of that? Not a flame, serious question here guys. If he's so dedicated to the free software / free everything movement, then Linux is the flagship that carries that ideal. It doesn't matter what it's called, everyone associates Linux with free (as in beer), and therefore should be exactly what he needs. I think the whole GNU/Linux thing is just wanting to get his fingers into things.
I find your reply most amusing, you call me a troll and you post as an anonymous coward. And apparently someone hasn't learnt the fine art of using a mouse or block delete and is stuck with the intelligence of only knowing how to use the backspace key to delete many characters of text. I suggest that next time you want to let the shit out of your mouth you at least have the courage to post as a real user...
And for your information, I was both an OS/2 user and developer. It was a great OS, much better than windows at the time, ran applications faster than windows, and I actually liked to develop for it. It was not horrifically overpriced, and the problem was one of compatibility, not price. It's a true shame what happened to it. But 'tis the way of things I guess...
not if it costs you 10% more money to increase your sales by %8.6. If you have to put any more development time into it, I doubt if you'd recoup the money. Especially since you're porting to something in which the OS is free, and most likely you have less paying customers per capita than you do with the other 92%, I think you'd be hard pressed to make your money back.
When you only have 1 OS that you plan to sell your game on, why do you need something that is cross-platform? When 92% of home users run Windows, and many people who have linux also have a windows install for playing games, why would you put your extrememly limited money and time and effort into supporting something that's not needed? It's just like OS/2's problem. If they didn't support Windows applications, nobody would use their OS (even though it kicked ass), but if they did support it, nobody would natively develop for their OS because they didn't have to.
And from what I've heard, DirectX is not clunky nor is it hard to program in.
I think that once linux starts getting a much larger hold on the desktop, then we will start to see games being developed for more than one platform.
That just made me think, is there such a thing as an OpenGL for gaming consoles? Imagine how much nicer it would be if you could program your game once for one API, and run it on PS2, N64, GC, etc, etc. That would be really kickass!
Seriously not trolling here, but up in the Great White North I have had a cable connection at home now for > 2 years with very few problems at all, took 2 days to get it set up and I regularily see 250k download speeds. Actually there's this one site that has this insane connection that can upload to me at 350kb/s. I have also had DSL, had it set up in under 3 days without issue, and don't have any problems. And all this for $50/month (that's $33USD) with no contract, quit anytime, and your first 2 months free! And the 3rd-6th months are at $40CAD ($27USD) because we don't get charged for the cable modem until after that. If you're a student, you get an additional $5CAD off the price. (Plus there is $0 install fees, and you get a free 3com network card)
So why is it then that we're being charged much less than the US, and yet the US is falling left/right/center when it comes to providers?
I could see maybe it being because it's our telco and our cable providers, but this has been going on for years, and they do make money off of it. Plus it's not only those. You can get P2P satellite as well for very reasonable prices and exceptionally high transfer rates.
I couldn't post that comment, so I copied it out and just hit "reply" again, but forgot to change the formatting to "Plain Old Text". Oh well, kinda ironic...
Again, I just noticed that the "Signature" is no longer static part of the message, if you change your signature it will change all over the place, and when you hit reply the signature is no longer part of the message. Neat! (Could've been like that before but if it was I never noticed).
you know what I just realized that is quite funny is that the only software that I have ever paid for is software that I could have had (legally) for free. I paid for Winamp (I use it enough and it was only 10USD) as well as donate to the EFF, and a few other shareware/adware pieces of software.
I guess I just go by the "no loss" philosophy. If I use a piece of software, and would continue to use it if I paid for it, then I should pay for it. If I wouldn't use it if I had to pay for it, then there's no loss by not paying for it.
As a side note, THANK YOU for modifying the "Plain Text" option to allow me to type without needing to use <BR><BR> everywhere and proper spacing. I always did hate that about HTML.
OK... Posting this comment gives me this:
Invalid form key!
Invalid form key: <b>lgcDxXFzUZ</b> !
Great! Why does one put out software that they know is full of bugs? Wouldn't a bit more testing of the new slashcode been more in order? Or was nobody actually doing any testing on the new codebase that they had to put it into production without proper testing?
That and the fact that VIA has been pissing on Intel for years now, constantly annoying them, and now they're embarassing Intel again (on many counts, Rambus was an admitted large embarassment, and Intel has had enough embarassing things happen in the last year or so) by beating them to the market with a better solution for their flagship processor. Pretty easy to understand why Intel would be Up In Arms(tm) about this.
BTW - HTML Preview works fine, it's just that the dropdown defaults to "pain text" now, so you have to change it to HTML formatted.
Yup... Slashcode 2.0 works guys!! So far, through the main slashdot.org page, I've seen 4 or 5 "internal server errors", some wacky comment numbers, addition that doesn't add up (well, actually, knowing/. that's probably a 'planned feature') and now this...
EXCELLENT... You mean things are like this BEFORE they do the switch:
OK
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, pater@slashdot.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
Slashdot Mirror
another very good point.
So if I just randomly connect to people, and start sending them copies of the latest Metallica song, then they are responsible and can loose their access?
Don't forget that if you're just scanning the netwaves, you don't know (necessarily) if the destination computer is accepting the packets. So I could just be broadcasting away, raising all sorts of flags for innocent people?
Good call.
However I also seem to remeber that ISPs are not responsible for what their members are transmitting, provided that they take all reasonable steps to prohibit unauthorized usage and remove any such usage once informed of it.
I also don't think that they should be responsible for it. They're just the medium. This is like suing tobacco companies or gun manufacturers... It's The American Way (tm). If you can't beat 'em, sue!! Don't get me started on that one =)...
Yeah, way back when, I was running a FTP on port 21, and got a warning from @home. However I switched the FTP to a different port, and have been running for more than one year, pushing an average of 1.5GB/day (total up/down), and have yet to hear anything. Plus when I was talking to some techies, they informed me that not only does rogers not have the capability of doing so, it's not even possible to tell how much utilization is on a particular segment, not even from being at the hardware site itself. Now this may be due to a certain set of hardware they were using, but I have also asked other techies about utilization, to which they replied "well, there are 58 of 73 modems currently turned on in your segment", and that's all the information they could give me.
So in any case, I doubt that they have the capability of telling how much bandwidth a single user is running. Due to the fact that another friend who accidentally had an FTP running on port 21 also got flagged (who had never used it), I'm assuming that they simply did a port scan to try to find servers.
Finally, if @home really cared about servers, all they would have to do is run a script that scoured napster/gnutella/etc/etc and grab any IPs that fall in their jurisdiction, match it to emails, and fire warnings off to them. Due to the fact that they have not done this (or at least not to my knowledge), leads me to believe that not only do they not care, but they are probably not charged per MB of bandwidth either, which is probably why they don't care. Man, they must have some MASSIVE FAT PIPE onto the internet. Or many many smaller ones =).
If however, we are simply "protecting a communications system" then we can sniff all day
If this is indeed legal, it's wrong to be allowed to do so. I suppose that the clients of the companies sign agreements saying that they will permit this (however do they really have any choice? You are required to work to live, and to work you must sign away some of your rights to privacy??).. I dunno, it's unsettling to know that they can lawfully do that.
I also find it very humourous, that IANAL acronym... My mind keeps parsing it to a contraction of I AM ANAL... sorry, no offence =)
Heheh yes, and you post as a coward...
There is a huge difference between being the computer that initiates a transfer, and poking in the middle of something going "what's this?". Unless they monitor all communications of everybody, they are liable to be poking in here and there, and not necessarily having the entire contextual information required to discern what it is they're looking at. OK, perhaps I chose a bad example, but it was the point behind it that I was trying to make. It's simply not possible to grasp through raw data streams to know if something you're looking at is pirated or not, without actually saving every bit that is passed to/from every client, which in itself would be a hard task to do.
Really good point... Think about how much "personal" information is currently sent over the internet in plaintext. Sure it warns you every now and then, but the chance of someone actually listening in is next-to-none. Could you imagine actually having to worry about such things?? This is crazy... There must be something wrong about that article...
Isn't this a MAJOR invasion of privacy? I can't remember exactly, but I seem to remember that ISPs were told they were NOT allowed to do that to modem users, as it violates several privacy issues. You're required to get a warrant prior to initiating any snooping whatsoever. Just like the Telephone, they can't do that!
And besides, HOW do you tell what's pirated and what's not, from random streams of data? If I download 2 movies at a time, it's going to seem like garbage (a raw stream that is). And HOW do they know that it's pirated? How can they distinguish a pirated movie from a non pirated one? Similarly with data or music, how can you tell? What are they going to do, scan for patterns that might match? Get someone to watch all movie streams and listen to all audio streams? Think about how hard it would be to figure that out. Or are they just going to scan what SITES you visit, and then ASSUME you're pirating? This is crazy!
I'm sorry, but could you imagine being a Martian and watching this thing fall from the sky, bounce, then roll around, deflate, inflate, roll around, etc, etc?? It'd be hillarious!
But a good idea! =)
I was working at Panasonic when they were developing that beast. The trials were fun. They didn't really tell us (my group, cuz I was in tech support at the time) much about this book (or at least they didn't tell us that this presentation was going to be about this book), and proceeded to do a normal meeting, brought up a simple powerpoint display and then some sort of movie producing sound as well (think it was a music video or something). Then the guy unplugged the notebook, poured the rest of his coffee on it, threw it on the ground, jumped on it a few times, and then plugged it back in just as the video was finishing and the "panasonic toughbook" logo came on (although I think it was called something different back then, but I can't remember, it was like 6 years or so ago). Made for one hell of an attention getter though.
Good call. You see, those are the comments that deserve moderation points. Not those cheezy one liners and the people who happen to say something vaguely interesting (but mainly just repeating what was said in the post) within the first 20 posts.
... You mean all it does is take away my +1 bonus? Why would I want to do that? In case I know that I'm posting a troll and want to only be able to get -2 instead of -3? Strange...
Hmm, I've never tried this "No Score +1 Bonus" thing, wonder how it works?
When I say that I run Linux, I am not saying "Hey, I run this great os written by one guy called Linus Torvalds". I'm saying that I run a free os that is developed by many many many people in total. Adding the GNU/ to the front of the name does nothing towards additional recognation of anyone's work. You don't mention the hardware that it was developed on, the people's names or anything else when talking about the name of your OS. Linux has become an ideal, a namesake, a beacon. It doesn't matter that little billy bob just released his version of SlippyNix 2.0, it's all part of the same cause, the same ideal. A name is not what we're fighting for here guys, it's the thought behind it. Free software (as in beer AND speech) has got to be about more than bickering and fussing about who gets to lay claim to what. We're not about laying claim guys, we're about free speech, free beer, and free ideals, or at least that's what everyone keeps professing and bitching about here.
Let's choose our real battles, everyone here, and RMS too... What's more important? GNU/Linux or Skylarov and DMCA and DeCSS and tyrany?
That question I leave up to you to decide.
{soap box mode: off}
That's why the Stallman can claim the GNU project has a valid claim to share the Linux title. Why bother?
Are you sure that it's just not ego and inflated self image and just plain greed getting in the way of that? Not a flame, serious question here guys. If he's so dedicated to the free software / free everything movement, then Linux is the flagship that carries that ideal. It doesn't matter what it's called, everyone associates Linux with free (as in beer), and therefore should be exactly what he needs. I think the whole GNU/Linux thing is just wanting to get his fingers into things.
This old saying that goes WAY WAY back, but applies so perfectly here, as it usually does:
... absolutely!
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts,
I find your reply most amusing, you call me a troll and you post as an anonymous coward. And apparently someone hasn't learnt the fine art of using a mouse or block delete and is stuck with the intelligence of only knowing how to use the backspace key to delete many characters of text. I suggest that next time you want to let the shit out of your mouth you at least have the courage to post as a real user...
And for your information, I was both an OS/2 user and developer. It was a great OS, much better than windows at the time, ran applications faster than windows, and I actually liked to develop for it. It was not horrifically overpriced, and the problem was one of compatibility, not price. It's a true shame what happened to it. But 'tis the way of things I guess...
not if it costs you 10% more money to increase your sales by %8.6. If you have to put any more development time into it, I doubt if you'd recoup the money. Especially since you're porting to something in which the OS is free, and most likely you have less paying customers per capita than you do with the other 92%, I think you'd be hard pressed to make your money back.
When you only have 1 OS that you plan to sell your game on, why do you need something that is cross-platform? When 92% of home users run Windows, and many people who have linux also have a windows install for playing games, why would you put your extrememly limited money and time and effort into supporting something that's not needed? It's just like OS/2's problem. If they didn't support Windows applications, nobody would use their OS (even though it kicked ass), but if they did support it, nobody would natively develop for their OS because they didn't have to.
And from what I've heard, DirectX is not clunky nor is it hard to program in.
I think that once linux starts getting a much larger hold on the desktop, then we will start to see games being developed for more than one platform.
That just made me think, is there such a thing as an OpenGL for gaming consoles? Imagine how much nicer it would be if you could program your game once for one API, and run it on PS2, N64, GC, etc, etc. That would be really kickass!
Seriously not trolling here, but up in the Great White North I have had a cable connection at home now for > 2 years with very few problems at all, took 2 days to get it set up and I regularily see 250k download speeds. Actually there's this one site that has this insane connection that can upload to me at 350kb/s. I have also had DSL, had it set up in under 3 days without issue, and don't have any problems. And all this for $50/month (that's $33USD) with no contract, quit anytime, and your first 2 months free! And the 3rd-6th months are at $40CAD ($27USD) because we don't get charged for the cable modem until after that. If you're a student, you get an additional $5CAD off the price. (Plus there is $0 install fees, and you get a free 3com network card)
So why is it then that we're being charged much less than the US, and yet the US is falling left/right/center when it comes to providers?
I could see maybe it being because it's our telco and our cable providers, but this has been going on for years, and they do make money off of it. Plus it's not only those. You can get P2P satellite as well for very reasonable prices and exceptionally high transfer rates.
hahahaha I suck.
I couldn't post that comment, so I copied it out and just hit "reply" again, but forgot to change the formatting to "Plain Old Text". Oh well, kinda ironic...
Again, I just noticed that the "Signature" is no longer static part of the message, if you change your signature it will change all over the place, and when you hit reply the signature is no longer part of the message. Neat! (Could've been like that before but if it was I never noticed).
you know what I just realized that is quite funny is that the only software that I have ever paid for is software that I could have had (legally) for free. I paid for Winamp (I use it enough and it was only 10USD) as well as donate to the EFF, and a few other shareware/adware pieces of software.
I guess I just go by the "no loss" philosophy. If I use a piece of software, and would continue to use it if I paid for it, then I should pay for it. If I wouldn't use it if I had to pay for it, then there's no loss by not paying for it.
As a side note, THANK YOU for modifying the "Plain Text" option to allow me to type without needing to use <BR><BR> everywhere and proper spacing. I always did hate that about HTML.
OK... Posting this comment gives me this:
Invalid form key!
Invalid form key: <b>lgcDxXFzUZ</b> !
Great! Why does one put out software that they know is full of bugs? Wouldn't a bit more testing of the new slashcode been more in order? Or was nobody actually doing any testing on the new codebase that they had to put it into production without proper testing?
but how does 1 troll tag outweigh 2 interesting and 2 insightful tags?
wierd
That and the fact that VIA has been pissing on Intel for years now, constantly annoying them, and now they're embarassing Intel again (on many counts, Rambus was an admitted large embarassment, and Intel has had enough embarassing things happen in the last year or so) by beating them to the market with a better solution for their flagship processor. Pretty easy to understand why Intel would be Up In Arms(tm) about this.
BTW - HTML Preview works fine, it's just that the dropdown defaults to "pain text" now, so you have to change it to HTML formatted.
Oh dear oh dear... something's wrong here. I see the title as this:
... So I look at the comment itself:
/. that's probably a 'planned feature') and now this...
.. better luck next time guys =) See you on Monday after 48hours of "personal uptime"...
Re:New Hardware Specs ? (Score:5, Troll)
And I go, who the fsck moderated that as a troll, and how did it get to +5??
Moderation Totals: Interesting=2, Informative=2, Total=4.
Yup... Slashcode 2.0 works guys!! So far, through the main slashdot.org page, I've seen 4 or 5 "internal server errors", some wacky comment numbers, addition that doesn't add up (well, actually, knowing
The magic 8 ball says: I slept with your wife
=;
and I just noticed, my comment is apparently the 2,171,131th comment for this article! Woah, talk about a lively debate!!
by Telek (dNaO99@hSoPmAeM.com) on Saturday August 18, @03:44 (#2171131)
EXCELLENT... You mean things are like this BEFORE they do the switch:
OK
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, pater@slashdot.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
use winamp for mp3s!! It's free and much better than Media Player... not to mention not Microsoft =)