Some of us think that a limited and inherently deflationary currency... is a far worse idea than an inflationary monetary system that can be adapted to circumstance by central banks.
Jeebus. Yuck! Ick!!! Can you read the !@#$ you write? "... an inflationary monetary system that can be adapted to circumstance by central banks." As in, "manipulated at will?" No, I don't believe that money should be treated that way.
I'm not trying to defend bitcoin, honest. I have no irons/sticks in that fire. I do despise the fiat money BS. When was the last time you got a look at what's sitting in Fort Knox? Some people believe it's empty.
An ounce of gold is something. It's worth something. You can build things with it, do stuff with it. A pretty printed piece of paper is a pretty printed piece if paper.
... since you can assume a Forbes reader knows what currency deflation is.
I would not make that assumption that easily. I think you may overestimate the quality of the audience. I'm not trying to insult Forbes' readers (I don't actually know them, of course), but come on. Homo sapiens in the 21st century don't generally inspire much confidence from where I'm looking. I'm not impressed by what I've seen of humanity lately, generally speaking (but maybe that's just me).
Fine! Okay! I'm a misanthrope! Guilty as charged. Sigh. I'm okay.
No. The definition of deflation is that prices decline.
A decline in prices is only a symptom. "Deflation" means your money can buy more stuff. Avoid listening to the talking heads, and you'll find this stuff is a lot simpler than it's made out to be. They're trying to confuse you with bafflegab. Don't fall for it.:-|
The definition of deflation is *decreasing* money supply, not stagnant money supply.
Incorrect. Inflation is a measure of change in relative value of goods over time when using a common unit of account. Deflation is negative inflation. The money supply is neither necessary nor sufficient to determine inflation. However, inflation can be influenced [by] the money supply.
There's a job waiting for you on Madison Ave. What mumbo-jumbo you speak, grasshopper.
Inflation is dilution of the money supply, pure and simple. More pieces of paper printed, all of which represent the (supposedly) stored "value", means each individual piece of paper can buy less stuff.
Deflation is decreasing the number of printed pieces of paper, leading to each of them gaining in value, or individually capable of buying more stuff (in theory).
I still say they're just pretty-printed pieces of worthless paper once the crunch comes. Hail the Fed! What a scam they've managed to get away with so far. Oldest game in existence (next to prostitution), yet people still fall for it.
Mod Parent up. People don't understand where a monetary coin gets its value.
Thanks for the vote, but the lobbying's not necessary. I'm comfortable relying on the court of public opinion around here.
You are right about average people not understanding fiat money. It's one hell of a scam that's been pulled over everyone's eyes, and it's working really well, like a seriously well crafted Ponzie scheme. It'll be interesting to watch the next few decades when the Chinese start to wonder what to do with all of those Treasury Bonds they've been buying up. Interesting times, indeed.
[btw, to everyone else reading this, if I've offended anyone in this thread so far (possible), please accept my apologies. I'm feeling playful today. Liberties may have been taken, no offence intended. I just hate watching marks getting fleeced. Tooduls!]
Oh thank you tqk for pointing out that we use fiat currencies, we have truly been hoodwinked.
Yes, you have, and you're most welcome. However, you don't appear to have learned anything in the transaction. Kings and governments have been debasing the money supply since long before Archimedes' time and they're still doing it, yet yokels like you don't even know the game's in play. Read up on your Federal Reserve sometime. "Money for nothing, and the chicks are free."
My currency is my skill and knowledge. People just throw food and loose women at me for parting with it, honest! They even consider it a bargain at the price. Go figure.
Nah, I'm on strike. Look me up in Galt's Gulch if you survive.
You'd have to leave your basement first.
It's my Mom's basement, you insensitive clod!:-| Who taught you how to play this game? Go play with your government approved imaginary value markers. Did you hear Iran and North Korea appear to have become pretty proficient at manufacturing them too? Oooh, now that's kind of a fly in the ointment, yes?
Don't give that wheelbarrow away just yet. You may need it.
Deflation is a problem for economists and politicians, not regular folks. Less tokens in circulation means your tokens are worth more. Sweet!
And that's all well and good until your end-of-year review comes around, and your boss decides that since he doesn't have as many tokens as expected, he's going to give you fewer of them next year.
If you want to choose the security and assurance of a regular paycheck over the freedom to choose your own work and your right to fail, that's the tradeoff wage slaves make. I prefer to think of myself as a Kulak; a self-employed peasant. I get to giggle my ass off in those interminable meetings you people hate so much. "My hourly rate, my hourly rate,..." If I don't want to do what they want done, I leave. If they don't want done what I want to do, I leave. Everybody's happy. Well, everyone who means anything to me is happy.:-)
[This reminds me of a discussion I was just having with someone else regarding rape. Why the hell would anyone want to have sex with someone who didn't want to have sex with them? It makes no sense (not to mention all the loud screaming and possibly knives showing up out of nowhere).]
Crap, did I just say that out loud? Have fun, and try not to hurt anyone doing it.
Based on your reply, I'm pretty sure you're not. You appear to be eminently civilized.
Still, there's quite a bit of wiggle room between just being a harmless lunatic and being a psychopathic mass-murderer. Harmless lunatics can be entertaining, at least. Breivik, not so much so. I'd class him down around the level of deadly bacteria.
Yes, it is 'real' money. I can pay any debts with it, pretty much every business in the US accepts it, it is also accepted in places internationally, people price oil in terms of it, etc.
So far.
My Mom used to send me to the store to buy her cigarettes. $0.35 a pack. She could supply herself with a month's worth of smokes for what I pay for one pack today.
Now why is that? Is it because "fiat money" is mallable, pliable, and easily interfered with? Who's manipulating your money supply today? Any fsckin' politician who wants to? Or maybe it's just Wall St. and business as usual?
That's your "real money." I can't believe you people are still falling for this joke.
... have none of that and are useful for buying drugs, laundering money and other shady dealings.
People buy those things with that "real money" you're talking about too. So?
Look, I'm not defending the bitcoin market here. I just don't want to let ignorant fools get away with calling fiat money "real money." It's not. It's pretty printed paper and ink. If you were out buying a loaf of bread in 1920s Germany with your wheelbarrow full of "real money", you'd understand this.
Do you remember how Archimedes made a name for himself? This game's been going on for one hell of a long time.
However it is being badly hamstrung by the lack of tokens.
Have you heard of those things called "coins?" You know, pennies, nickels, dimes, & etc? You don't always have to carry around silver dollars or dollar bills, and it would be pretty annoying to have to carry hundreds of them at a time when you could instead carry a few hundred dollar bills.
Deflation is a problem for economists and politicians, not regular folks. Less tokens in circulation means your tokens are worth more. Sweet!
dict fiat
{Fiat money}, irredeemable paper currency, not resting on a
specie basis, but deriving its purchasing power from the
declaratory fiat of the government issuing it.
Nope, there have, in fact, been a number of such stories and if you care to research it you'll find my position is completely self consistent.
Would you care to enlighten us with citations?
Wow. Ever heard of, "Godel, Escher, Bach"? Are you the new "host files" guy? I just love it when he quotes Windows registry crap to Linux guys. Damn, that's entertaining!:-P
"Cannibalism is perfectly ethical and moral behavior", yes? John Gacy's looking forward to meeting you (or is it Hannibal Lector? I keep getting those two mixed up).
Okay, fine, you're delusional. I'll leave you alone now.
Frankly, I think that this weird notion that you need to start murdering people before your actions qualify as "evil" is doing far more harm than any "watering down" of the term would. What possible goal would [raising] the bar that high accomplish, besides letting people excuse their inexcusible actions?
Just speaking for myself, evil connotes lasting harm; stuff that sticks with you and can't be wiped off or avoided.
This story's about a bunch of companies agreeing to not poach each other's employees. There's no "there" there.
No, this was evil, plain and simple. Working to keep salaries down for people is evil.
So, I guess you'll be heading off to live in a cave from now on? *Every* commercial enterprise wants to pay as little as they can get away with! Your job is to get as much as you can and back it up with perfomance commensurate to what they're paying.
Did the world just get a whole lot stupider overnight? Holy !@#$.
This has nothing at all to do with age and experience but rather seeing the need for clarification, but good job playing the age card on someone more than likely older than you.
I don't know, I'm pretty old.
But hey, thanks for confirming you're an idiot.:-)
You are assuming you can get 100% clearly evil, I don't believe this is the case.
I think there's a very fine line between 100% clearly evil and psychopathy. Is Anders Breivik evil, or just plain screwball nuts? Six of one and a half a dozen of the other, methinks.
If you took a poll of how many people thought rape was evil, and how many people thought a non-poaching agreement was evil I am fairly sure that rape would win hands down.
I wonder if either really fits the bill of evil. I'm not all that sure rape should be considered evil. Ripping the heads off defenceless children is certainly evil, but rape? That happens to females of all species all the time (do elephants or lions negotiate prior to sex?), yet only human females appear to believe it's a life changing event. Praying Mantis females eat their mates while mating.
I'm not advocating a male right to rape, but I think human females do blow it way out of proportion. Geez girl, get over it. It's not like it disfigures you or anything. Carry a knife with you from now on if you don't like it.:-P
They'll take you if you show up and offer yourself and they want you, but they don't go out of their way to get you. What's evil about that?
They've colluded to do something collectively that they cannot do individually.
I think that word (colluded) looks a lot more ugly than it really is. How's about we "collude" to give each other painted eggs on Easter, or wrapped presents on Dec. 25th? $deity forbid we consider what goes on when our birthdays come around.
They can't do price fixing without the agreements.
What price fixing? All of the employed are still free to go look for another job and make any deal they want to with prospective employers. The accused all just "colluded" to not go looking for you if you presently work for a competitor. Evil?!? Come on. This is just dumb. I don't even much like Google and Apple, but I think this's asinine.
Slashdot Mirror
You are an idiot. That is all.
Some of us think that a limited and inherently deflationary currency ... is a far worse idea than an inflationary monetary system that can be adapted to circumstance by central banks.
Jeebus. Yuck! Ick!!! Can you read the !@#$ you write? "... an inflationary monetary system that can be adapted to circumstance by central banks." As in, "manipulated at will?" No, I don't believe that money should be treated that way.
I'm not trying to defend bitcoin, honest. I have no irons/sticks in that fire. I do despise the fiat money BS. When was the last time you got a look at what's sitting in Fort Knox? Some people believe it's empty.
An ounce of gold is something. It's worth something. You can build things with it, do stuff with it. A pretty printed piece of paper is a pretty printed piece if paper.
That's all I'm saying.
... since you can assume a Forbes reader knows what currency deflation is.
I would not make that assumption that easily. I think you may overestimate the quality of the audience. I'm not trying to insult Forbes' readers (I don't actually know them, of course), but come on. Homo sapiens in the 21st century don't generally inspire much confidence from where I'm looking. I'm not impressed by what I've seen of humanity lately, generally speaking (but maybe that's just me).
Fine! Okay! I'm a misanthrope! Guilty as charged. Sigh. I'm okay.
No. The definition of deflation is that prices decline.
A decline in prices is only a symptom. "Deflation" means your money can buy more stuff. Avoid listening to the talking heads, and you'll find this stuff is a lot simpler than it's made out to be. They're trying to confuse you with bafflegab. Don't fall for it. :-|
The definition of deflation is *decreasing* money supply, not stagnant money supply.
Incorrect. Inflation is a measure of change in relative value of goods over time when using a common unit of account. Deflation is negative inflation. The money supply is neither necessary nor sufficient to determine inflation. However, inflation can be influenced [by] the money supply.
There's a job waiting for you on Madison Ave. What mumbo-jumbo you speak, grasshopper.
Inflation is dilution of the money supply, pure and simple. More pieces of paper printed, all of which represent the (supposedly) stored "value", means each individual piece of paper can buy less stuff.
Deflation is decreasing the number of printed pieces of paper, leading to each of them gaining in value, or individually capable of buying more stuff (in theory).
I still say they're just pretty-printed pieces of worthless paper once the crunch comes. Hail the Fed! What a scam they've managed to get away with so far. Oldest game in existence (next to prostitution), yet people still fall for it.
Mod Parent up. People don't understand where a monetary coin gets its value.
Thanks for the vote, but the lobbying's not necessary. I'm comfortable relying on the court of public opinion around here.
You are right about average people not understanding fiat money. It's one hell of a scam that's been pulled over everyone's eyes, and it's working really well, like a seriously well crafted Ponzie scheme. It'll be interesting to watch the next few decades when the Chinese start to wonder what to do with all of those Treasury Bonds they've been buying up. Interesting times, indeed.
[btw, to everyone else reading this, if I've offended anyone in this thread so far (possible), please accept my apologies. I'm feeling playful today. Liberties may have been taken, no offence intended. I just hate watching marks getting fleeced. Tooduls!]
Oh thank you tqk for pointing out that we use fiat currencies, we have truly been hoodwinked.
Yes, you have, and you're most welcome. However, you don't appear to have learned anything in the transaction. Kings and governments have been debasing the money supply since long before Archimedes' time and they're still doing it, yet yokels like you don't even know the game's in play. Read up on your Federal Reserve sometime. "Money for nothing, and the chicks are free."
My currency is my skill and knowledge. People just throw food and loose women at me for parting with it, honest! They even consider it a bargain at the price. Go figure.
Nah, I'm on strike. Look me up in Galt's Gulch if you survive.
You'd have to leave your basement first.
It's my Mom's basement, you insensitive clod! :-| Who taught you how to play this game? Go play with your government approved imaginary value markers. Did you hear Iran and North Korea appear to have become pretty proficient at manufacturing them too? Oooh, now that's kind of a fly in the ointment, yes?
Don't give that wheelbarrow away just yet. You may need it.
Deflation is a problem for economists and politicians, not regular folks. Less tokens in circulation means your tokens are worth more. Sweet!
And that's all well and good until your end-of-year review comes around, and your boss decides that since he doesn't have as many tokens as expected, he's going to give you fewer of them next year.
If you want to choose the security and assurance of a regular paycheck over the freedom to choose your own work and your right to fail, that's the tradeoff wage slaves make. I prefer to think of myself as a Kulak; a self-employed peasant. I get to giggle my ass off in those interminable meetings you people hate so much. "My hourly rate, my hourly rate, ..." If I don't want to do what they want done, I leave. If they don't want done what I want to do, I leave. Everybody's happy. Well, everyone who means anything to me is happy. :-)
[This reminds me of a discussion I was just having with someone else regarding rape. Why the hell would anyone want to have sex with someone who didn't want to have sex with them? It makes no sense (not to mention all the loud screaming and possibly knives showing up out of nowhere).]
Crap, did I just say that out loud? Have fun, and try not to hurt anyone doing it.
again maybe he is crazy, maybe I am.
Based on your reply, I'm pretty sure you're not. You appear to be eminently civilized.
Still, there's quite a bit of wiggle room between just being a harmless lunatic and being a psychopathic mass-murderer. Harmless lunatics can be entertaining, at least. Breivik, not so much so. I'd class him down around the level of deadly bacteria.
I take it you get paid in jewelry and food instead of a paycheck then?
Nah, I'm on strike. Look me up in Galt's Gulch if you survive.
Yes, it is 'real' money. I can pay any debts with it, pretty much every business in the US accepts it, it is also accepted in places internationally, people price oil in terms of it, etc.
So far.
My Mom used to send me to the store to buy her cigarettes. $0.35 a pack. She could supply herself with a month's worth of smokes for what I pay for one pack today.
Now why is that? Is it because "fiat money" is mallable, pliable, and easily interfered with? Who's manipulating your money supply today? Any fsckin' politician who wants to? Or maybe it's just Wall St. and business as usual?
That's your "real money." I can't believe you people are still falling for this joke.
Buttcoins ...
Ha ha, funneeeee.
... have none of that and are useful for buying drugs, laundering money and other shady dealings.
People buy those things with that "real money" you're talking about too. So?
Look, I'm not defending the bitcoin market here. I just don't want to let ignorant fools get away with calling fiat money "real money." It's not. It's pretty printed paper and ink. If you were out buying a loaf of bread in 1920s Germany with your wheelbarrow full of "real money", you'd understand this.
Do you remember how Archimedes made a name for himself? This game's been going on for one hell of a long time.
However it is being badly hamstrung by the lack of tokens.
Have you heard of those things called "coins?" You know, pennies, nickels, dimes, & etc? You don't always have to carry around silver dollars or dollar bills, and it would be pretty annoying to have to carry hundreds of them at a time when you could instead carry a few hundred dollar bills.
Deflation is a problem for economists and politicians, not regular folks. Less tokens in circulation means your tokens are worth more. Sweet!
You can come work for me and I'll pay you in Monopoly money.
Oh gee, thanks! It's called "fiat money" for a reason:
dict fiat
{Fiat money}, irredeemable paper currency, not resting on a
specie basis, but deriving its purchasing power from the
declaratory fiat of the government issuing it.
You have been hoodwinked. Hook, line, and sinker.
So instead of accepting real money minus a transaction cost, I could take fake money for free.
Are you calling those slips of paper with pretty printing on them "real money?" I think you've been hoodwinked.
Nope, there have, in fact, been a number of such stories and if you care to research it you'll find my position is completely self consistent.
Would you care to enlighten us with citations?
Wow. Ever heard of, "Godel, Escher, Bach"? Are you the new "host files" guy? I just love it when he quotes Windows registry crap to Linux guys. Damn, that's entertaining! :-P
"Cannibalism is perfectly ethical and moral behavior", yes? John Gacy's looking forward to meeting you (or is it Hannibal Lector? I keep getting those two mixed up).
Okay, fine, you're delusional. I'll leave you alone now.
Frankly, I think that this weird notion that you need to start murdering people before your actions qualify as "evil" is doing far more harm than any "watering down" of the term would. What possible goal would [raising] the bar that high accomplish, besides letting people excuse their inexcusible actions?
Just speaking for myself, evil connotes lasting harm; stuff that sticks with you and can't be wiped off or avoided.
This story's about a bunch of companies agreeing to not poach each other's employees. There's no "there" there.
Whoosh.
No, this was evil, plain and simple. Working to keep salaries down for people is evil.
So, I guess you'll be heading off to live in a cave from now on? *Every* commercial enterprise wants to pay as little as they can get away with! Your job is to get as much as you can and back it up with perfomance commensurate to what they're paying.
Did the world just get a whole lot stupider overnight? Holy !@#$.
This has nothing at all to do with age and experience but rather seeing the need for clarification, but good job playing the age card on someone more than likely older than you.
I don't know, I'm pretty old.
But hey, thanks for confirming you're an idiot. :-)
But cannibalism by itself? Perfectly ethical and moral.
Hey thanks. Note to self: shoot Surt on sight.
You are assuming you can get 100% clearly evil, I don't believe this is the case.
I think there's a very fine line between 100% clearly evil and psychopathy. Is Anders Breivik evil, or just plain screwball nuts? Six of one and a half a dozen of the other, methinks.
If you took a poll of how many people thought rape was evil, and how many people thought a non-poaching agreement was evil I am fairly sure that rape would win hands down.
I wonder if either really fits the bill of evil. I'm not all that sure rape should be considered evil. Ripping the heads off defenceless children is certainly evil, but rape? That happens to females of all species all the time (do elephants or lions negotiate prior to sex?), yet only human females appear to believe it's a life changing event. Praying Mantis females eat their mates while mating.
I'm not advocating a male right to rape, but I think human females do blow it way out of proportion. Geez girl, get over it. It's not like it disfigures you or anything. Carry a knife with you from now on if you don't like it. :-P
The courts are required to do so.
Okay, but courts can toss stupid cases out just as fast too.
... since the evidence of injury has already passed the judge ...
That's the bit that I'm stumbling on. That judge must have been drunk.
They'll take you if you show up and offer yourself and they want you, but they don't go out of their way to get you. What's evil about that?
They've colluded to do something collectively that they cannot do individually.
I think that word (colluded) looks a lot more ugly than it really is. How's about we "collude" to give each other painted eggs on Easter, or wrapped presents on Dec. 25th? $deity forbid we consider what goes on when our birthdays come around.
They can't do price fixing without the agreements.
What price fixing? All of the employed are still free to go look for another job and make any deal they want to with prospective employers. The accused all just "colluded" to not go looking for you if you presently work for a competitor. Evil?!? Come on. This is just dumb. I don't even much like Google and Apple, but I think this's asinine.
Sin of omission? Gimme a break.