So while there may not have been a gun to their head, it's been an oligarchy that has decided 'systemd is best for everyone' kind of decision when the vast majority don't want it.
May I see your source for the claim "the vast majority don't want it"?
4 paragraphs based on a Git commit. This is journalism. And promoted on Slashdot's main page.
Well, yeah, but it's a code change that adds another tool that duplicates an existing Linux tool to a highly controversial software package that its critics accuse of trying to slowly take over the entire toolspace. It definitely qualifies as news for [Linux] nerds, stuff that matters [to them].
How does it duplicate an existing tool? It uses and depends on mount, it doesn't replace it. If you read the Reddit post that Poettering make, he writes: "first of all, this doesn't replace util-linux' mount tool. Not at all. It just tells systemd to mount something, going through systemd's dependency logic. For the actual mount operation PID 1 will fork off util-linux' mount tool like it always did."
IIRC, it was all caused because some processes like pulseaudio were abusing the existing paradigm of requesting to run in a way that would persist beyond session exit and failing to close themselves. Rather than correct those bugs, they decided it would be easier to introduce *another* layer of requesting such persistence.
Sorry for the double post, but I just want to address this. systemd isn't a distro. If other Linux software is buggy or behaves abnormally, there's nothing the systemd maintainers can do to fix those programs. However, it IS the job of the service manager to prevent buggy software from interfering with unrelated programs/services, so it makes sense for systemd to need to manage this. You can validly criticize them for making some change that causes unexpected behavior, but again as I said in my other post, it's a config option that you can change if you want to, and some distros have already gone ahead by not adopting that option.
Poettering said USB does not work. Anybody else did not have a problem. Until now...
That's funny, I read the blog post and I didn't see anything anywhere about USB not working.
Fundamental engineering principle: If it is not broken, do not fix it. Hence either it was broken, or Poettering is even more incompetent.
But it's not "fixing" anything. The systemd team decided to add functionality for people who want to use it. If you don't want to use it, nothing's changed.
This isn't in any way a forced dependency. It's a different default behavior for the systemd daemon. Debian decided not to adopt the change in the default config and nohup still works the way you expect it to.
"very major distribution without any real alternative"
You could use Slackware, Devuan, Gentoo, or you could configure Debian to go back to sysvinit (which is still supported, just not the default). There's lots of alternatives. Stop crying victim.
I want it to "just work" on my desktop and server machine with minimum fuss.
The kind of "just work" that systemd represents has been available from Microsoft for years, why don't you just go there, and leave us alone?
The complaint is not that it exists, but that those of us who don't like it find that we have to jump through so many hoops to avoid it. And that goes for both Microsoft and systemd.
What you're saying is that Linux should be broken out of the box, and that if I want things to work, I should lock-in to a vendor that screws me over instead of using Linux that works.
Realistically, the Linux ecosystem forces you to pick between running a minor distro that you don't want to use, running a major distro with systemd removed (with broken functionality) or giving up and using systemd.
I suppose you could technically call that "not forcing" on the basis that you made the choice to use Linux in the first place, but... nope. Still being forced.
I'm forced to use Crest toothpaste. I could use some toothpaste I don't want to use, but that's... I'm being FORCED man! Don't you see it!?
"I am sure putting all the eggs in one basket will be fine, in the long run"
I'm sure you're currently maintaining forks of the Linux kernel, X.org, coreutils, gcc, etc. -- right? Because otherwise we're all putting all of our eggs in one basket.
Most Linux users are at worst begrudgingly accepting systemd as evidenced by the lack of max exodus to said forks. When the widespread opinion doesn't reflect real world usage, maybe you should consider the possibility that you live in an echo-chamber.
What "mass exodus"? Can you back that up with some facts?
I can see we've made little progress here on Slashdot. Here's another systemd article about some added functionality that's actually useful/necessary and doesn't interfere with the POSIX way of doing things, but most of the focus is again on the copypasta FUD about how systemd is the wicked Pharoah, and the Linux ecosystem is teetering on the edge of total meltdown because of it, and MosesBSD will lead us all to freedom.
Well, yes... Most importantly RHEL6 / CentOS6. Those of us using Linux in business/enterprise settings are mostly running that, and that's mostly what we care about. The time limit on that is what we're sweating.
And I'm sure you have some statistics to back that up, right? Otherwise you're FUDding out of your ass.
There's no trackers on their website, and the ads are generalized by your current search query, not your past searches. I see no evidence they're tracking anybody. Maybe they sell their visitor logs to some other company, but if anybody caught them in the act, they'd be destroyed instantly (since [1] privacy is the singular thing their business hinges on, and [2] it would be such a massive violation of their explicitly clear, non-jargony Terms of Service that they'd be sued into oblivion).
Most subscribers to AT&T in the 1980s got Western Electric equipment bundled with their telephone subscription. Western Electric of course was owned by AT&T, making them a vertical monopoly.
I didn't pay for Linux, so I guess I'm Linux's product too.
The Linux kernel is free because everybody benefits from the collective work poured into it. When a company offers free (gratis) software but with closed source, they're either (1) trying to please you so you'll buy a premium edition, or (2) they're selling your privacy to advertisers. How can it be (1) in this case? You can pay to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro but Microsoft isn't doing anything to incentivize that deal; it has to be (2).
But that was way before there were dozens of billions being made with such systems. Look at google, they have featured invasive ads for their chrome browser on the most popluar website on the internet. Any punishment? None. Or take google apps. Abusing their monopoly is the only control they have in fact over android, the remainder is open sourced. On the smartphone maket, google approaches monopoly status.
You can change the default browser in Chrome or install another browser. Besides, Android isn't a monopoly, since iOS is a viable alternative. On the other hand, many governments and what not still require legacy x86 Windows-exclusive standards, so even though Linux and macOS and ChromeOS exist, Windows is still de facto a monopoly.
Or take systemd. It bundles many services and is forced down the throats of thousands of gnu/linux users. Thanks to it, everyone is forced to use binary logging if they want to use udev.
Use eudev. Problem solved. Or, forward all your logs from journald to your preferred syslog daemon so they're in plaintext. Also you're not really forced to do anything since Linux is free as in speech and beer, but have fun with your victim complex.
Slashdot Mirror
Then disable OS auto-mounting. Now everybody gets what they want.
I was wondering where I can submit my resume to become a Slashdot editor? Because a full-time salary for the total lack of effort sounds pretty great!
I agree. Also don't buy from Microsoft because they're guilty of similar crimes.
I'm really not a Nintendo fanboy, but they're the only console gaming company that doesn't suck these days.
So while there may not have been a gun to their head, it's been an oligarchy that has decided 'systemd is best for everyone' kind of decision when the vast majority don't want it.
May I see your source for the claim "the vast majority don't want it"?
4 paragraphs based on a Git commit. This is journalism. And promoted on Slashdot's main page.
Well, yeah, but it's a code change that adds another tool that duplicates an existing Linux tool to a highly controversial software package that its critics accuse of trying to slowly take over the entire toolspace. It definitely qualifies as news for [Linux] nerds, stuff that matters [to them].
How does it duplicate an existing tool? It uses and depends on mount, it doesn't replace it. If you read the Reddit post that Poettering make, he writes: "first of all, this doesn't replace util-linux' mount tool. Not at all. It just tells systemd to mount something, going through systemd's dependency logic. For the actual mount operation PID 1 will fork off util-linux' mount tool like it always did."
IIRC, it was all caused because some processes like pulseaudio were abusing the existing paradigm of requesting to run in a way that would persist beyond session exit and failing to close themselves. Rather than correct those bugs, they decided it would be easier to introduce *another* layer of requesting such persistence.
Sorry for the double post, but I just want to address this. systemd isn't a distro. If other Linux software is buggy or behaves abnormally, there's nothing the systemd maintainers can do to fix those programs. However, it IS the job of the service manager to prevent buggy software from interfering with unrelated programs/services, so it makes sense for systemd to need to manage this. You can validly criticize them for making some change that causes unexpected behavior, but again as I said in my other post, it's a config option that you can change if you want to, and some distros have already gone ahead by not adopting that option.
Poettering said USB does not work. Anybody else did not have a problem. Until now...
That's funny, I read the blog post and I didn't see anything anywhere about USB not working.
Fundamental engineering principle: If it is not broken, do not fix it. Hence either it was broken, or Poettering is even more incompetent.
But it's not "fixing" anything. The systemd team decided to add functionality for people who want to use it. If you don't want to use it, nothing's changed.
This isn't in any way a forced dependency. It's a different default behavior for the systemd daemon. Debian decided not to adopt the change in the default config and nohup still works the way you expect it to.
"very major distribution without any real alternative"
You could use Slackware, Devuan, Gentoo, or you could configure Debian to go back to sysvinit (which is still supported, just not the default). There's lots of alternatives. Stop crying victim.
The kind of "just work" that systemd represents has been available from Microsoft for years, why don't you just go there, and leave us alone?
The complaint is not that it exists, but that those of us who don't like it find that we have to jump through so many hoops to avoid it. And that goes for both Microsoft and systemd.
What you're saying is that Linux should be broken out of the box, and that if I want things to work, I should lock-in to a vendor that screws me over instead of using Linux that works.
Do you have any idea how insane you sound?
Mint doesn't have any automatic updates to my knowledge.
systemd supports old shell scripts. The easier way is to make a unit file: https://wiki.archlinux.org/ind...
Realistically, the Linux ecosystem forces you to pick between running a minor distro that you don't want to use, running a major distro with systemd removed (with broken functionality) or giving up and using systemd.
I suppose you could technically call that "not forcing" on the basis that you made the choice to use Linux in the first place, but... nope. Still being forced.
I'm forced to use Crest toothpaste. I could use some toothpaste I don't want to use, but that's... I'm being FORCED man! Don't you see it!?
"I am sure putting all the eggs in one basket will be fine, in the long run"
I'm sure you're currently maintaining forks of the Linux kernel, X.org, coreutils, gcc, etc. -- right? Because otherwise we're all putting all of our eggs in one basket.
Most Linux users are at worst begrudgingly accepting systemd as evidenced by the lack of max exodus to said forks. When the widespread opinion doesn't reflect real world usage, maybe you should consider the possibility that you live in an echo-chamber.
What "mass exodus"? Can you back that up with some facts?
You are here: [Embrace], extend, extinguish.
That's been a successful tactic from closed source vendors, I don't see how it can be possible with FOSS though.
Poettering said USB does not work. Anybody else did not have a problem. Until now...
That's funny, I read the blog post and I didn't see anything anywhere about USB not working.
I can see we've made little progress here on Slashdot. Here's another systemd article about some added functionality that's actually useful/necessary and doesn't interfere with the POSIX way of doing things, but most of the focus is again on the copypasta FUD about how systemd is the wicked Pharoah, and the Linux ecosystem is teetering on the edge of total meltdown because of it, and MosesBSD will lead us all to freedom.
Well, yes... Most importantly RHEL6 / CentOS6. Those of us using Linux in business/enterprise settings are mostly running that, and that's mostly what we care about. The time limit on that is what we're sweating.
And I'm sure you have some statistics to back that up, right? Otherwise you're FUDding out of your ass.
It's nice that you think they don't track you.
There's no trackers on their website, and the ads are generalized by your current search query, not your past searches. I see no evidence they're tracking anybody. Maybe they sell their visitor logs to some other company, but if anybody caught them in the act, they'd be destroyed instantly (since [1] privacy is the singular thing their business hinges on, and [2] it would be such a massive violation of their explicitly clear, non-jargony Terms of Service that they'd be sued into oblivion).
Most subscribers to AT&T in the 1980s got Western Electric equipment bundled with their telephone subscription. Western Electric of course was owned by AT&T, making them a vertical monopoly.
I didn't pay for Linux, so I guess I'm Linux's product too.
The Linux kernel is free because everybody benefits from the collective work poured into it. When a company offers free (gratis) software but with closed source, they're either (1) trying to please you so you'll buy a premium edition, or (2) they're selling your privacy to advertisers. How can it be (1) in this case? You can pay to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro but Microsoft isn't doing anything to incentivize that deal; it has to be (2).
But that was way before there were dozens of billions being made with such systems. Look at google, they have featured invasive ads for their chrome browser on the most popluar website on the internet. Any punishment? None. Or take google apps. Abusing their monopoly is the only control they have in fact over android, the remainder is open sourced. On the smartphone maket, google approaches monopoly status.
You can change the default browser in Chrome or install another browser. Besides, Android isn't a monopoly, since iOS is a viable alternative. On the other hand, many governments and what not still require legacy x86 Windows-exclusive standards, so even though Linux and macOS and ChromeOS exist, Windows is still de facto a monopoly.
Or take systemd. It bundles many services and is forced down the throats of thousands of gnu/linux users. Thanks to it, everyone is forced to use binary logging if they want to use udev.
Use eudev. Problem solved. Or, forward all your logs from journald to your preferred syslog daemon so they're in plaintext. Also you're not really forced to do anything since Linux is free as in speech and beer, but have fun with your victim complex.
As for me being the product, what major search engine can I use that isn't mining my searches for profit?
See: https://www.privacytools.io/#s...
If you're too lazy to click, it says DuckDuckGo, Disconnect Search, MetaGer and ixquick.
Why don't you use duckduckgo or some other search engine that doesn't violate your privacy by tracking you?