There are about 241 spams from email and usenet involving Macromedia. I didn't attempt to filter if they came directly or were spamming Macromedia themselves. Aparently, MAPS was justified in listing with this proof. <BR><BR>
Macromedia did fuck up. Everyone knows this. They ran a opt-in list which did not confirm - you could subscribe your enemies to it. What MAPS did to retaliate was to block their mail server. So far, no problem. Then, they blocked Macromedia's *web server*. Big problem. <BR><BR>
1. When a mail server is blocked by MAPS, mail from it gets bounced. The bounce says "I don't accept mail from you, because you are on the RBL." The sender knows what has gone wrong, and has the choice to get unlisted (well, sorta - this is the other problem). A web server operator is given no indication that visitors are being blocked from her site. She has no way of knowing that she is expected to modify her behavior.
<BR>
2. RBL at the backbone level is not consentual. Very few people, and no non-technical people, have a choice of backbone. Even if they did, all backbones could one day choose to subscribe to the RBL. This would clearly be a form of censorship.
<BR><BR>
There *is* an ethical way to use the RBL. Simply add an additional header to mail which says "X-RBL: Possible spam". Above.net would be totally cool if they stuck with this method - but they don't. And that's why we're angry.
No. It was a *patent*. Learn something about the law before contradicting Vergil Bushnell. Patents work like this: One person invents something, and files a patent on it. If the patent is granted, nobody can use that invention without paying her. Even if the reverse engineer it, or independantly invent it.
Re:Will the same thing happen to BSD
on
Mandrake Shakeup
·
· Score: 1
BSDI is not BSD company in the sense that Red Hat is a GPL company. It is a BSD company in the sense that Red Hat is a Linux company. Clearly, since the original troll^H^H^H^H^Hpost was about the GPL, you should be looking at companies that release software under the BSD licensem like Crynwr (I know it's not public, it's just an example).
"Don't like it? Move to Russia and see if you prefer standing in line for 6 hours "
You mean before they switched to capitalism, or after? Answer: Both.
"in subzero temperatures"
While capitalism does encourage global warming, (see "The Tragedy Of The Commons" for details) that's not why Russia is so cold.
Re:Please lose the icon before you get in trouble
on
RFC for Spammers
·
· Score: 1
Well, do you believe it's a valid use of their trademark? Somehow, I doubt it, from your e2 postings. If you care, e-mail Rob. The rest of us have heard it before - you post this every time the icon is used.
PostgreSQL has its own PL/SQL-like language built in. You can also use Perl and (iirc) Python and TCL as extension languages.
Re:Not so unusual - Maverick!
on
The Business
·
· Score: 1
If businesses are private property, then their owners are responsible for their losses. You're a stockholder and the business goes under? Time to sell your house to pay its debts. You don't want that - buy that's what your "private property" causes.
Those people are Manicheans - and thus, heretics against their own faith. Read "A Case Of Conscience" for an interesting take on this. The science is a wee bit out of date, but it' still fun.
"...you're upset because someone's trying to make a profit off of something you made without compensating you for it? Almost like... Napster?"
No. Nobody cares that Gracenote is trying to make a profit. People care that they are restricting our freedoms. These freedoms include the right not to have a fat ugly ad cluttering up our screen, and the right to choose a different CD info provider. Any questions?
"1.Its free, you can't charge for it, but you can charge for distribution, just so long as you don't charge for the code itself. "
Why do you want this? Surely if everyone competes to offer access to the code, the price will be reasonable anyway. Other than that, just use the GPL and trademark the name... No big deal.
No, you can't. The person will just run the proprietary binary against an unmodified *backup* of the *original* code. Client-side security is impossible.
Today is Columbine's 2 year aniversary. It's also Hitler's birthday (this was intentional). There's also the IMC / CMAQ thing today. And the EFF's protests. But not Earth day.
FYI, PUTA is Spanish for whore... but you knew that.
You mean, if I don't believe your corporate propaganda, I must be ignorant? Well, I guess that's what Mark Twain meant by
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Hm, or maybe you're just not *allowed* to give proof, because Oracle refuses to allow companies to publish benchmarks of their software?
Considering the Themes project people themselves have come out and said, A) Apple is simply covering their asses, they had to do this,
B) they
are currently negotiating with Apple so that everyone is happy, C) the "Letter" was a legal formality.
OK, now I've read their list archives, and I can say that this is totally wrong. Especially the copyright stuff, but also the TM stuff (See below)
I would say this is simply a trademark issue
which is not understood by anyone, other than the parties involved.
Not understood by you, maybe - but I can (now) read the letter that Apple sent. I can understand the issues - they claim contributory infringement under the copyright, trademark, and trade dress acts, as well as licence violation. Well, there's no such thing (at least in Title 15 ch. 22) as contributory TM infringement... So, they have no need to cover their asses (copyrights don't require that). They *know* exactly what they're doing - and it's *wrong*.
The funniest thing here is this was a rumour of a cease and desist letter, and everyone went ballistic.
A news report is not a rumor.
Did Slashdot editors try to contact members of the Themes Project? For that matter did Macworld UK?
Presumably, MWUK was contacted by one of the members - they *did* have copies of the letters. Or, maybe they didn't - but the mailing list archives were and are publicly available.
This is shotty
journalism at it's worst. If you want to change the world, you have to do your homework.
I looked up the applicable laws - what did you do?
It's 2:00am and your database is corrupt. If you go back to tape you will loose a half day of transactions. You then realize that the free database
that you just bet your business on, doesn't have any real 24X7 support. Have a nice day. Hope that your free tape backup solution works just as
well... Everything looks great until the sh*t hits the fan...
<i>Thanks to Simone for pointing out this article by Andy Duncan regarding Oracle and its relationship to Open Source. The article starts out with background, and the metaphor to the Italian Renaissance is a bit odd, but I do think that this is a path Oracle is looking to walk down - what do you all think? </i>
<BR><BR>
Now, "this" clearly refers to the article, not to anything else. So, yes, you are rude for insulting tcharron, and wrong for not reading Hemos's blurb.
Settle down. Apple is not "steamrollering" over anybody's rights. They are protecting their rights, specifically, their trademark rights, from those who they believe are violating them.
Their lawyers ought to know better - this couldn't *possibly* be a trademark violation. Yes, I understand the nature of trademark law. Do you?
Your attitude is exactly what I was talking about. You hear about one company suing one group and start shouting bloody murder at the top of your lungs, instantly insisting that Apple is an evil emprire out to destroy your freedom.
Your mention of "one company" is a total red herring - that company is Apple. I never said that Apple is an evil empire - I said that they did something which is wrong, and which infringes on my freedom of speech. Why should I not complain when something like this happens?
I would bet $100 that you never even used Themes... you probably have not even heard of them before today, and more than likely are not even a Mac user...
So, we must be entirely self-interested bastards? We can't stand up for principles?
yet you are among those complaining the loudest
I would hardly call a post to Slashdot a loud complaint.
because you make the knee-jerk, yes "us vs. them", assumption that any big company that sues a small group must be out to ruin democracy.
It's hardly an assumption - I read the fucking article, and the quote from the letter *tells* me what they're doing. They are abusing their power, and attacking people who have done nothing wrong - again, this isn't an assumption, it's what their letter said.
Count to ten, think calmly.
Given that I actually read the article, clearly I'm thinking more calmly than a troll like you who rushes off to post before learning what the letter said.
You might come to realize that while Apple may be wrong about the extent of their trademark rights, they very well might credibly believe that they needed to press this case in order to protect their trademarks.
If you had actually read my post or the article, you would know that the only thing Apple said was about copyrights, *not* trademarks. Macworld said things about trademarks - but there's no *real* evidence that this is a trademark case. I don't see how it could possibly be - and if you knew anything at all about IP law, you would agree.
It is not a copyright issue. <BR>
<BR>
The article says: "improperly copying Apple's copyrighted software code and graphic files".
<BR><BR>
<I>...And all the blubbering slashbots</i>
<BR><BR>
You don't agree with someone (but didn't even bother to read the article), so you unsult them? Real mature.
<BR><BR>
<i> Someday they will grow up and work in the real world, and find out that things don't always break down to "us vs. them".</i>
<BR><BR>
Who said anything about "us vs. them"? People don't like Apple Corp's actions, so they get decide to do something about it - would you rather they just sit there and let major corporations steamroller individual rights and freedoms? Well, given all your talk about the "real world", probably - for you, the "real world" is one where people don't have ideals, hopes, dreams. Well, that's certainly not the real world I know. One day, you'll realize how artificial your "real world" is - I just hope you don't fuck up too many lives before then.
"In the US, somewhere around 40% of employees work for Local, State, or Federal governments."
This is obviously bogus. Think about your friends - do anywhere near 40% of them work for the gov't? Do even 10%? No. This wasn't even true during the world wars - there had to be many people producing war materials for each person on the front (and war materials were produced largely by private companies). Think before you post.
Slashdot Mirror
"Corporations can try and take our rights away, but we have the courts to fight them. "
We lost in MPAA v. Corley.
"When the government takes our rights away we can't even beat them in the courts as they have guns to back them up. "
We won in Tinker v. Des Moines.
Any questions?
I know abovenet cannot add a SMTP header except for mail servers they control. Duh. I should have been more clear.
1. What they are currently doing is unethical for the reasons I gave.
2. There is an ethical way to use the RBL.
There are about 241 spams from email and usenet involving Macromedia. I didn't attempt to filter if they came directly or were spamming Macromedia themselves. Aparently, MAPS was justified in listing with this proof.
<BR><BR>
Macromedia did fuck up. Everyone knows this. They ran a opt-in list which did not confirm - you could subscribe your enemies to it. What MAPS did to retaliate was to block their mail server. So far, no problem. Then, they blocked Macromedia's *web server*. Big problem. <BR><BR>
1. When a mail server is blocked by MAPS, mail from it gets bounced. The bounce says "I don't accept mail from you, because you are on the RBL." The sender knows what has gone wrong, and has the choice to get unlisted (well, sorta - this is the other problem). A web server operator is given no indication that visitors are being blocked from her site. She has no way of knowing that she is expected to modify her behavior.
<BR>
2. RBL at the backbone level is not consentual. Very few people, and no non-technical people, have a choice of backbone. Even if they did, all backbones could one day choose to subscribe to the RBL. This would clearly be a form of censorship.
<BR><BR>
There *is* an ethical way to use the RBL. Simply add an additional header to mail which says "X-RBL: Possible spam". Above.net would be totally cool if they stuck with this method - but they don't. And that's why we're angry.
No. It was a *patent*. Learn something about the law before contradicting Vergil Bushnell. Patents work like this: One person invents something, and files a patent on it. If the patent is granted, nobody can use that invention without paying her. Even if the reverse engineer it, or independantly invent it.
BSDI is not BSD company in the sense that Red Hat is a GPL company. It is a BSD company in the sense that Red Hat is a Linux company. Clearly, since the original troll^H^H^H^H^Hpost was about the GPL, you should be looking at companies that release software under the BSD licensem like Crynwr (I know it's not public, it's just an example).
Tinker v. Des Moines? Hello? Children *do* have constitutional rights. As a lawyer, you should know this, and it's *shocking* that you don't.
"Don't like it? Move to Russia and see if you prefer standing in line for 6 hours "
You mean before they switched to capitalism, or after? Answer: Both.
"in subzero temperatures"
While capitalism does encourage global warming, (see "The Tragedy Of The Commons" for details) that's not why Russia is so cold.
Well, do you believe it's a valid use of their trademark? Somehow, I doubt it, from your e2 postings. If you care, e-mail Rob. The rest of us have heard it before - you post this every time the icon is used.
PostgreSQL has its own PL/SQL-like language built in. You can also use Perl and (iirc) Python and TCL as extension languages.
If businesses are private property, then their owners are responsible for their losses. You're a stockholder and the business goes under? Time to sell your house to pay its debts. You don't want that - buy that's what your "private property" causes.
Those people are Manicheans - and thus, heretics against their own faith. Read "A Case Of Conscience" for an interesting take on this. The science is a wee bit out of date, but it' still fun.
" ...you're upset because someone's trying to make a profit off of something you made without compensating you for it? Almost like... Napster?"
No. Nobody cares that Gracenote is trying to make a profit. People care that they are restricting our freedoms. These freedoms include the right not to have a fat ugly ad cluttering up our screen, and the right to choose a different CD info provider. Any questions?
"1.Its free, you can't charge for it, but you can charge for distribution, just so long as you don't charge for the code itself. "
Why do you want this? Surely if everyone competes to offer access to the code, the price will be reasonable anyway. Other than that, just use the GPL and trademark the name... No big deal.
Cheating even includes having someone look over your shoulder in the lab and give you hints.
So, how are you supposed to debug stuff? That's crazy for an intro course.
The first offense results in, at minimum, an F in the class and the the CS department will refuse to sign off on any of your financial aid forms.
So, they penalize the poor more than the rich? Nice.
No, you can't. The person will just run the proprietary binary against an unmodified *backup* of the *original* code. Client-side security is impossible.
"It's Earth Day."
No, it's not. Earth day is 4/22.
Today is Columbine's 2 year aniversary. It's also Hitler's birthday (this was intentional). There's also the IMC / CMAQ thing today. And the EFF's protests. But not Earth day.
FYI, PUTA is Spanish for whore... but you knew that.
-performance
0 8-14-008-01-PR-MR-SW
Oh? http://apachetoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-
If you need proof, you need to graduate college.
You mean, if I don't believe your corporate propaganda, I must be ignorant? Well, I guess that's what Mark Twain meant by "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Hm, or maybe you're just not *allowed* to give proof, because Oracle refuses to allow companies to publish benchmarks of their software?
Considering the Themes project people themselves have come out and said, A) Apple is simply covering their asses, they had to do this, B) they are currently negotiating with Apple so that everyone is happy, C) the "Letter" was a legal formality.
OK, now I've read their list archives, and I can say that this is totally wrong. Especially the copyright stuff, but also the TM stuff (See below)
I would say this is simply a trademark issue which is not understood by anyone, other than the parties involved.
Not understood by you, maybe - but I can (now) read the letter that Apple sent. I can understand the issues - they claim contributory infringement under the copyright, trademark, and trade dress acts, as well as licence violation. Well, there's no such thing (at least in Title 15 ch. 22) as contributory TM infringement... So, they have no need to cover their asses (copyrights don't require that). They *know* exactly what they're doing - and it's *wrong*.
The funniest thing here is this was a rumour of a cease and desist letter, and everyone went ballistic.
A news report is not a rumor.
Did Slashdot editors try to contact members of the Themes Project? For that matter did Macworld UK?
Presumably, MWUK was contacted by one of the members - they *did* have copies of the letters. Or, maybe they didn't - but the mailing list archives were and are publicly available.
This is shotty journalism at it's worst. If you want to change the world, you have to do your homework.
I looked up the applicable laws - what did you do?
It's 2:00am and your database is corrupt. If you go back to tape you will loose a half day of transactions. You then realize that the free database that you just bet your business on, doesn't have any real 24X7 support. Have a nice day. Hope that your free tape backup solution works just as well... Everything looks great until the sh*t hits the fan...
Wrong: http://www.greatbridge.com/product/support.php
Hemos wrote:
<i>Thanks to Simone for pointing out this article by Andy Duncan regarding Oracle and its relationship to Open Source. The article starts out with background, and the metaphor to the Italian Renaissance is a bit odd, but I do think that this is a path Oracle is looking to walk down - what do you all think? </i>
<BR><BR>
Now, "this" clearly refers to the article, not to anything else. So, yes, you are rude for insulting tcharron, and wrong for not reading Hemos's blurb.
Settle down. Apple is not "steamrollering" over anybody's rights. They are protecting their rights, specifically, their trademark rights, from those who they believe are violating them.
Their lawyers ought to know better - this couldn't *possibly* be a trademark violation. Yes, I understand the nature of trademark law. Do you?
Your attitude is exactly what I was talking about. You hear about one company suing one group and start shouting bloody murder at the top of your lungs, instantly insisting that Apple is an evil emprire out to destroy your freedom.
Your mention of "one company" is a total red herring - that company is Apple. I never said that Apple is an evil empire - I said that they did something which is wrong, and which infringes on my freedom of speech. Why should I not complain when something like this happens?
I would bet $100 that you never even used Themes... you probably have not even heard of them before today, and more than likely are not even a Mac user...
So, we must be entirely self-interested bastards? We can't stand up for principles?
yet you are among those complaining the loudest
I would hardly call a post to Slashdot a loud complaint.
because you make the knee-jerk, yes "us vs. them", assumption that any big company that sues a small group must be out to ruin democracy.
It's hardly an assumption - I read the fucking article, and the quote from the letter *tells* me what they're doing. They are abusing their power, and attacking people who have done nothing wrong - again, this isn't an assumption, it's what their letter said.
Count to ten, think calmly.
Given that I actually read the article, clearly I'm thinking more calmly than a troll like you who rushes off to post before learning what the letter said.
You might come to realize that while Apple may be wrong about the extent of their trademark rights, they very well might credibly believe that they needed to press this case in order to protect their trademarks.
If you had actually read my post or the article, you would know that the only thing Apple said was about copyrights, *not* trademarks. Macworld said things about trademarks - but there's no *real* evidence that this is a trademark case. I don't see how it could possibly be - and if you knew anything at all about IP law, you would agree.
It is not a copyright issue. ...And all the blubbering slashbots</i>
<BR>
<BR>
The article says: "improperly copying Apple's copyrighted software code and graphic files".
<BR><BR>
<I>
<BR><BR>
You don't agree with someone (but didn't even bother to read the article), so you unsult them? Real mature.
<BR><BR>
<i> Someday they will grow up and work in the real world, and find out that things don't always break down to "us vs. them".</i>
<BR><BR>
Who said anything about "us vs. them"? People don't like Apple Corp's actions, so they get decide to do something about it - would you rather they just sit there and let major corporations steamroller individual rights and freedoms? Well, given all your talk about the "real world", probably - for you, the "real world" is one where people don't have ideals, hopes, dreams. Well, that's certainly not the real world I know. One day, you'll realize how artificial your "real world" is - I just hope you don't fuck up too many lives before then.
Expensive equiptment, waste, corporate welfare.
Why don't you respond to #151, a post which *seems* to have some valid points, and is not a straw man?
3 42 59&cid=151
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/04/03/16
"In the US, somewhere around 40% of employees work for Local, State, or Federal governments."
This is obviously bogus. Think about your friends - do anywhere near 40% of them work for the gov't? Do even 10%? No. This wasn't even true during the world wars - there had to be many people producing war materials for each person on the front (and war materials were produced largely by private companies). Think before you post.