Agree totally. Major, major kudos to Red Hat, who not only tried to do the right thing, but insisted that it be done. I am very happy that my two Linux servers I bought last month have Red Hat, and I'm very glad that some people are showing that their principles are important to them.
Too many people forget them when dollar signs flash before their eyes.
I don't know if I'll get any IPO shares, even though I do belong to that non-Letter group which qualified for the first but was given an impossible task in responding to the second, especially given the 15+ minute waits on the phone lines and the Data Not Found errors on the web pages, but when I get them I'm holding on to them.
You flip the stock and then want more? You sold out your ownership for a few measly bucks?
I hope when I finally pick them up at mid-20s and hold them till retirement, travelling around the world and enjoying the good life, that you reflect on how a few shiny dollars made you lose your ideals.
If the process is confusing, it's not your fault as an investor, it's E*Trade's. E*Trade would like you to go away, but insist on talking with a supervisor (after you get to a broker), starting each conversation with "I am an Affinity member".
Just because they goofed and misclassified you and told you to do the wrong thing, it's not your fault.
C'mon, why should Red Hat pony up shares? E*TRADE had the shares and gave them away to other investors, probably institutionals, when they shouldn't have. Which is not ok, and the SEC got involved. So now they're using their float (which they maintain) of shares as an underwriter to fill these IPO priced shares for all you coders. Since NASDAQ has regs about how much they have to maintain, they have to refill the float on the aftermarket (instinet, other markets) to maintain sufficient float to cover friction.
And, since the SEC is scrutinizing them like a hawk, they can't just call in favors to fill up the quota and cancel other filled orders, like they would probably try otherwise.
Think I'll go check my account and see if they came to their senses yet. I'd hate to have been at the E*Trade board meeting or any of the videoconferences with the other underwriters. Or hanging around Bill G today. Talk about screamfests...
If we're not Affinity group, it looks like they think we'll go away. Which is mildly amusing, seeing as I didn't get into Who's Who by rolling over for anyone, and I'm not about to start.
Of course, you realize filling all those shares from either the aftermarket or the float must have cost them $30 million to $48 million in unrealized profit. So let's not get too greedy out there.
And again, remember, you now OWN Red Hat. If you go and flip it, you just gave away control to the Bill G's of the world. If you hold it, you'll have a nice UNTAXED investment which you can retire on. Me, I always buy for long term, and Red Hat is one of the few that is going to do well long term, as we go forward into the Naughties.
In some ways, what you say makes psychological sense. We already know that managerial turnover at MSFT is high, and that MBAs don't want to work there, but rather in startups. If they and the developer trainees start noticing that RHAT is flying up while MSFT is not, they may sense that the wind is shifting and reevaluate their career plans. This will raise the labor component cost for MSFT and help with mindshare shift in the tech and business communities.
But, as someone else noted, Red Hat's total valuation in no way compares to MSFT's. But who knows, we may make Fortune 100 by year end!
Now if E*TRADE would just do something for those of us not in the Affinity program but who had confirmed by phone re the $12-$14 range... I might be a tad happier, but right now I've got $51K burning a hole in my pocket and no shares to show for it.
I wonder how expensive it was for them to fill all those 8000 rejected allotments from their float? Let's see, 8000 x (72-14) x 100 shares = $48+ million. Assuming the average fill was 100, since some got 400 but some had been accepted. Hmmm.
Red Hat's strengths are its marketing and branding in the eyes of the public. From this it leverages support agreements and co-branding deals with S/W companies. But, unlike MSFT, it neither controls nor forces Linux to comply. We can ignore Red Hat desires as we wish, and a better code alternative can still win in Open Source competition, although if Red Hat does not support it, we have a higher bar of proof that the code is "better" than the Red Hat distribution.
In the Linux sphere, Red Hat is associated with Linux in the eyes of the public, but to us it is merely one popular choice. Synergistically, it is a "safe bet" for the PHB to choose Red Hat brand, as they know they can get support and their s/w will work. Plus, added bonus, they get source code!
Because the monied classes now have respect for Linux, this contributes to the dissolution of the MSFT monopoly on the mid-range/server/workstation side, while eating into the virtual dominance of the desktop. Linux is hot and a desireable skill, while MSFT is not and its stock options less attractive. So, we win mindshare...
Well, as you can see from the cNet story (oh, one coming up on Salon, and you might want to check the WSJournal), I'm not very pleased with E*TRADE.
I will say that major kudos should go to Red Hat for sticking up for you guys and to the SEC for proving that our taxes and fees can help the little guys out there, not just the big boys.
Will in Seattle day 2: 0 shares, $72/share... tick... tick
I'm not even sure how many shares I got through the family trust, probably only 100 shares at IPO, and I had $100,000 sitting in the money market for anything I could get. Because my broker wasn't an underwriter. I accept that.
And I still have 0 shares in E*TRADE. But, because I posted and emailed now 8000 coders have shares through E*TRADE. So I'm bad because Open Source people got shares at IPO?
Get a grip. I never said hack the site (www.sec.gov), I said use the SEC to complain. And I did, and you did, and look what happened.
Justice was (partially) done.
Look, my main accounts fluctuate $3000 or $5000 in a day. But there's no reason they should keep all the people who helped make Linux what it is, and Red Hat what it is, from getting a stake in it.
I'm hoping you'll all keep your shares. And vote them. And keep Red Hat on the straight and narrow.
Of course, some of you won't, attracted by those shiny dollar signs. But don't blame me when it closes the year at $100 a share. You have a chance at the MSFT of the Naughties - don't blow it.
If you got in on the IPO, you now OWN the company. Exercise that ownership. Keep it for your retirement. Use it to leverage a home loan in 2002. But don't sell the stock.
E*TRADE is saying it's the SEC, but then why would my other broker not phone me to reconfirm when I put in with a $20 limit at up to $100,000 with them?
This is so totally bogus. Contact the SEC at their email addresses: http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) or (West Coast) email sanfrancisco@sec.gov and give them details (name, address, phone(s), email(s), account(s), chronology, and what you expect them to do about it.
Ah, someone like me... seems you might want to contact the SEC and complain at http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) or else email at (West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov
I had the same thign happen, and that was AFTER they raised it to $12-$14 and I reconfirmed ON THE PHONE.
You can contact the Securities and Exchange Commission, especially since they record all those nice conversations. At their web site of: http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) or email at (West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov
Not just the Securities and Exchanges Commission at http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) (or email for the West Coast is sanfrancisco@sec.gov), but why not send email to the Salon, cNet, NYTimes, LATimes, SFChronicle, Washington Post, your local paper, any weeklies you get, and the venerable WSJournal?
Hey, they want you to go away. I say, why not complain to the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) at http://www.sec.gov/ (look in FAQ) or email (west coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov ?
They want you to take it lying down. They don't want the SEC, Salon, cNet, NYTimes, WSJournal, and other media sources to be contacted. Because then they might have to do the right thing.
I called them yesterday afternoon and talked to a broker (not just a rep) and reconfirmed at the $12-$14 price, even checking as to what would happen at $14, and got a green light then. And now they say I had to go through a web site? It was a BROKER and I DID PHONE.
Sigh. Maybe it's time to call up my brother and uncle (both lawyers) and ask them who they recommend.
Sheesh. You can tell I do too much politics, right? Last night was endorsements for the county.
Seriously, though, email the Securities and Exchanges Commission at: (West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov (rest of US) hey, look it up. On the http://www.sec.gov/ sight under "Frequently Asked Questions".
give your name, address, phone(s), email(s), broker, acct number, give details of who what where when, and tell them what you think should happen as a resolution. As in, that you get at least the 100 shares at the IPO price.
The more the merrier. Oh, and cc: your favorite newspapers and weeklies. Slashdot away!
Send an email with your full name, address, phone(s), email(s) and a day-by-day blow of what happened to you re the Red Hat IPO. Mention E*TRADE by name, your account number, and whether or not you corresponded by email, by phone, and (if by phone) with an account services rep or a broker. Indicate that you knew the conversation was being recorded.
Tell them what you expect them to do. If you want the minimum allotment of 100 shares at the $14 IPO price, say so. Give the URL of the slashdot article you're looking at right now.
And make copies of the email, send them to the letters to the editor of: A. your home town newspaper (who might want news); B. The Wall Street Journal C. The New York Times (letters@nytimes.com) D. The LA Times E. The Washington Post F. Any weekly papers you read.
Send copies to your Senators, your Congressmembers, and your Governor. And your State Attorney General.
Seriously. And what peeves me about this is that my other broker accepted an order for up to $100,000 in shares at any price up to $20 and I never had any problems.
Just got off the phone with them and they kept claiming it was an FEC regulation. Which is totally bogus, since, if it was, I would have had to go through the same thing with my other broker. What gets me is I verbally talked to a broker yesterday and reconfirmed my interest at the $12-$14 price range for shares up to 4000 in number to the total valuation of my account. And that "beep" kept going off while I was talking with her.
No phone call, no email, I wake up at 8AM normally. This is 100% bogus.
I had more than $51,000 in my account, and they didn't even phone me. I came in to work at 9 AM today and there was a message when I logged in to my account. They didn't phone me at home, at work, or on my cell phone, nor did I receive any email.
It's a good thing the larger account is with another broker, or I'd have no shares at all. There I just phoned, said I wanted to buy up to $100,000 of it, and that was it.
I will make sure I tell all my relatives and friends to stay away from E*Trade. After me phoning a broker yesterday and confirming ON THE PHONE while the recording tone bleeped that I wanted the shares in the $12 to $14 range, this is not acceptable behaviour.
Exactly. By selling, you capitalize the earned wealth as income. And pay capital gains. Which goes to Black\\\\\Fixing Ops\\\Roads and paying off the national debt.
Look, you could live in almost any other country and you'd pay higher taxes, so don't complain. If you don't want to be taxed, don't realize your increased wealth.
Slashdot Mirror
Surprise, surprise ...
Just got through to a broker. Who admitted that the SEC has required them to redo the entire IPO.
Not sure if that means someone's going to handle my shares. But I'm on hold now, anyway.
Gonna switch over and finish some code.
Agree totally. Major, major kudos to Red Hat, who not only tried to do the right thing, but insisted that it be done. I am very happy that my two Linux servers I bought last month have Red Hat, and I'm very glad that some people are showing that their principles are important to them.
Too many people forget them when dollar signs flash before their eyes.
I don't know if I'll get any IPO shares, even though I do belong to that non-Letter group which qualified for the first but was given an impossible task in responding to the second, especially given the 15+ minute waits on the phone lines and the Data Not Found errors on the web pages, but when I get them I'm holding on to them.
Sheesh.
You flip the stock and then want more? You sold out your ownership for a few measly bucks?
I hope when I finally pick them up at mid-20s and hold them till retirement, travelling around the world and enjoying the good life, that you reflect on how a few shiny dollars made you lose your ideals.
;-)
If the process is confusing, it's not your fault as an investor, it's E*Trade's. E*Trade would like you to go away, but insist on talking with a supervisor (after you get to a broker), starting each conversation with "I am an Affinity member".
Just because they goofed and misclassified you and told you to do the wrong thing, it's not your fault.
email sanfrancisco@sec.gov
C'mon, why should Red Hat pony up shares? E*TRADE had the shares and gave them away to other investors, probably institutionals, when they shouldn't have. Which is not ok, and the SEC got involved. So now they're using their float (which they maintain) of shares as an underwriter to fill these IPO priced shares for all you coders. Since NASDAQ has regs about how much they have to maintain, they have to refill the float on the aftermarket (instinet, other markets) to maintain sufficient float to cover friction.
...
And, since the SEC is scrutinizing them like a hawk, they can't just call in favors to fill up the quota and cancel other filled orders, like they would probably try otherwise.
Think I'll go check my account and see if they came to their senses yet. I'd hate to have been at the E*Trade board meeting or any of the videoconferences with the other underwriters. Or hanging around Bill G today. Talk about screamfests
If we're not Affinity group, it looks like they think we'll go away. Which is mildly amusing, seeing as I didn't get into Who's Who by rolling over for anyone, and I'm not about to start.
Of course, you realize filling all those shares from either the aftermarket or the float must have cost them $30 million to $48 million in unrealized profit. So let's not get too greedy out there.
And again, remember, you now OWN Red Hat. If you go and flip it, you just gave away control to the Bill G's of the world. If you hold it, you'll have a nice UNTAXED investment which you can retire on. Me, I always buy for long term, and Red Hat is one of the few that is going to do well long term, as we go forward into the Naughties.
In some ways, what you say makes psychological sense. We already know that managerial turnover at MSFT is high, and that MBAs don't want to work there, but rather in startups. If they and the developer trainees start noticing that RHAT is flying up while MSFT is not, they may sense that the wind is shifting and reevaluate their career plans. This will raise the labor component cost for MSFT and help with mindshare shift in the tech and business communities.
... I might be a tad happier, but right now I've got $51K burning a hole in my pocket and no shares to show for it.
But, as someone else noted, Red Hat's total valuation in no way compares to MSFT's. But who knows, we may make Fortune 100 by year end!
Now if E*TRADE would just do something for those of us not in the Affinity program but who had confirmed by phone re the $12-$14 range
I wonder how expensive it was for them to fill all those 8000 rejected allotments from their float? Let's see, 8000 x (72-14) x 100 shares = $48+ million. Assuming the average fill was 100, since some got 400 but some had been accepted. Hmmm.
Red Hat's strengths are its marketing and branding in the eyes of the public. From this it leverages support agreements and co-branding deals with S/W companies. But, unlike MSFT, it neither controls nor forces Linux to comply. We can ignore Red Hat desires as we wish, and a better code alternative can still win in Open Source competition, although if Red Hat does not support it, we have a higher bar of proof that the code is "better" than the Red Hat distribution.
...
In the Linux sphere, Red Hat is associated with Linux in the eyes of the public, but to us it is merely one popular choice. Synergistically, it is a "safe bet" for the PHB to choose Red Hat brand, as they know they can get support and their s/w will work. Plus, added bonus, they get source code!
Because the monied classes now have respect for Linux, this contributes to the dissolution of the MSFT monopoly on the mid-range/server/workstation side, while eating into the virtual dominance of the desktop. Linux is hot and a desireable skill, while MSFT is not and its stock options less attractive. So, we win mindshare
Well, as you can see from the cNet story (oh, one coming up on Salon, and you might want to check the WSJournal), I'm not very pleased with E*TRADE.
... tick ... tick
I will say that major kudos should go to Red Hat for sticking up for you guys and to the SEC for proving that our taxes and fees can help the little guys out there, not just the big boys.
Will in Seattle
day 2: 0 shares, $72/share
Seriously, I have yet to get a single thing.
I'm not even sure how many shares I got through the family trust, probably only 100 shares at IPO, and I had $100,000 sitting in the money market for anything I could get. Because my broker wasn't an underwriter. I accept that.
And I still have 0 shares in E*TRADE. But, because I posted and emailed now 8000 coders have shares through E*TRADE. So I'm bad because Open Source people got shares at IPO?
Get a grip. I never said hack the site (www.sec.gov), I said use the SEC to complain. And I did, and you did, and look what happened.
Justice was (partially) done.
Look, my main accounts fluctuate $3000 or $5000 in a day. But there's no reason they should keep all the people who helped make Linux what it is, and Red Hat what it is, from getting a stake in it.
I'm hoping you'll all keep your shares. And vote them. And keep Red Hat on the straight and narrow.
Of course, some of you won't, attracted by those shiny dollar signs. But don't blame me when it closes the year at $100 a share. You have a chance at the MSFT of the Naughties - don't blow it.
If you got in on the IPO, you now OWN the company. Exercise that ownership. Keep it for your retirement. Use it to leverage a home loan in 2002. But don't sell the stock.
E*TRADE is saying it's the SEC, but then why would my other broker not phone me to reconfirm when I put in with a $20 limit at up to $100,000 with them?
This is so totally bogus. Contact the SEC at their email addresses: http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) or (West Coast) email sanfrancisco@sec.gov and give them details (name, address, phone(s), email(s), account(s), chronology, and what you expect them to do about it.
And cc: all the news media you can.
Ah, someone like me ... seems you might want to contact the SEC and complain at http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) or else email at (West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov
I had the same thign happen, and that was AFTER they raised it to $12-$14 and I reconfirmed ON THE PHONE.
You can contact the Securities and Exchange Commission, especially since they record all those nice conversations. At their web site of:
http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ)
or email at (West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov
Not just the Securities and Exchanges Commission at http://www.sec.gov/ (look for FAQ) (or email for the West Coast is sanfrancisco@sec.gov), but why not send email to the Salon, cNet, NYTimes, LATimes, SFChronicle, Washington Post, your local paper, any weeklies you get, and the venerable WSJournal?
They want you to gripe about it and go away.
Be polite about it in those letters, though.
Hey, they want you to go away. I say, why not complain to the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) at http://www.sec.gov/ (look in FAQ) or email (west coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov ?
They want you to take it lying down. They don't want the SEC, Salon, cNet, NYTimes, WSJournal, and other media sources to be contacted. Because then they might have to do the right thing.
I called them yesterday afternoon and talked to a broker (not just a rep) and reconfirmed at the $12-$14 price, even checking as to what would happen at $14, and got a green light then. And now they say I had to go through a web site? It was a BROKER and I DID PHONE.
Sigh. Maybe it's time to call up my brother and uncle (both lawyers) and ask them who they recommend.
Sheesh. You can tell I do too much politics, right? Last night was endorsements for the county.
Seriously, though, email the Securities and Exchanges Commission at:
(West Coast) sanfrancisco@sec.gov
(rest of US) hey, look it up. On the http://www.sec.gov/ sight under "Frequently Asked Questions".
give your name, address, phone(s), email(s), broker, acct number, give details of who what where when, and tell them what you think should happen as a resolution. As in, that you get at least the 100 shares at the IPO price.
The more the merrier. Oh, and cc: your favorite newspapers and weeklies. Slashdot away!
Oh. sanfrancisco@sec.gov
Oops.
Send an email with your full name, address, phone(s), email(s) and a day-by-day blow of what happened to you re the Red Hat IPO. Mention E*TRADE by name, your account number, and whether or not you corresponded by email, by phone, and (if by phone) with an account services rep or a broker. Indicate that you knew the conversation was being recorded.
Tell them what you expect them to do. If you want the minimum allotment of 100 shares at the $14 IPO price, say so. Give the URL of the slashdot article you're looking at right now.
And make copies of the email, send them to the letters to the editor of:
A. your home town newspaper (who might want news);
B. The Wall Street Journal
C. The New York Times (letters@nytimes.com)
D. The LA Times
E. The Washington Post
F. Any weekly papers you read.
Send copies to your Senators, your Congressmembers, and your Governor. And your State Attorney General.
Class Warfare!
OK, Slashdotters, time to get our shares back.
If everyone who DID NOT get the shares through E*Trade complains, the Securities and Exchange Commission has to investigate it.
So, http://www.sec.gov/ is the place to go.
Don't let E*Trade scare you off by mumbo jumbo.
Seriously, you can trade in RHAT right now. However, only a market order is likely to work, limits may not fire.
Seriously, I think we're talking malfeasance here.
Seriously. And what peeves me about this is that my other broker accepted an order for up to $100,000 in shares at any price up to $20 and I never had any problems.
Just got off the phone with them and they kept claiming it was an FEC regulation. Which is totally bogus, since, if it was, I would have had to go through the same thing with my other broker.
What gets me is I verbally talked to a broker yesterday and reconfirmed my interest at the $12-$14 price range for shares up to 4000 in number to the total valuation of my account. And that "beep" kept going off while I was talking with her.
No phone call, no email, I wake up at 8AM normally. This is 100% bogus.
I had more than $51,000 in my account, and they didn't even phone me. I came in to work at 9 AM today and there was a message when I logged in to my account. They didn't phone me at home, at work, or on my cell phone, nor did I receive any email.
It's a good thing the larger account is with another broker, or I'd have no shares at all. There I just phoned, said I wanted to buy up to $100,000 of it, and that was it.
I will make sure I tell all my relatives and friends to stay away from E*Trade. After me phoning a broker yesterday and confirming ON THE PHONE while the recording tone bleeped that I wanted the shares in the $12 to $14 range, this is not acceptable behaviour.
And no, the account messages were NOT clear.
Exactly. By selling, you capitalize the earned wealth as income. And pay capital gains. Which goes to Black\\\\\Fixing Ops\\\Roads and paying off the national debt.
Look, you could live in almost any other country and you'd pay higher taxes, so don't complain. If you don't want to be taxed, don't realize your increased wealth.