This is a total misinterpretation. Read it again, it's exectly the opposite. MS has to pay $100 million as settlement for "patent issues", MS has to buy $25 million is Borland..er, Inprise shares:). Inprise is getting all the technology licence to support Windows without problems. Let's just reason about it. With Linux we don't need no "Opentools", the OS and the libraries are there and there are no licencing problems. With Windows you have to have a licence to include windows.h or you cannot develop a compiler for Win32. It's that simple, ask the guys at Cygnus. Borland had to have that license in the past years and it need the license to continue to develop tools for Windows. There's no secret agenda, there are no "ambiguos plans". Be happy that Borland has now much more cash to feed those hungry programmers that it hires:). We just demoed our latest technology for Linux at the company shareholders meeting. JBuilder for linux is coming soon.
This is MS's attempt trying to replace CORBA with COM/COM+/DCOM/YourCOM/MyCOM/EveryoneHasaCOMCOM
No, it's not. This is MS paying, better late than never, for using Inprise patented technology. The 10% buy of shares is common practice in this kind of settlements. Look at the Apple case, MS bought $150 Million in shares. In this case they pay $100 million in cash and $25 million in shares. I know that there is a lot of emotiional stress in this kind of things but this is actually excellent news for Inprise given that they have now a vast amount of cash for the Windows and Linux projects.
Excuse me but how is that cashing $125 million makes somebody "byte the dust". Totally misinterpreted. Read the article, it's Microsft paying Inprise not the other way around:)
This announcement is not about Inprise "dealing" with MS. They got some money as payment for usage of patents. It's acompensation. The 10% in shares, please note that it's not enough for doing anything, is pretty common preactice in this kind of settlements. Compare this with $150 million of the Apple settelement. Is Apple being controlled by MS ? I don't think so. Are they dead ? Absolutely no, in fact Apple is enjoining the best period in a long time.
Why ? Please read the announcement. MS agreed to give Inprise $100 million as a settlement for patent issues and buy $25 million in shares. The article also underlines that Inprise will have access to the Windows technology, there is no mention of MS controlling or obtaining anything from Inprise. This is not going to change Inprise except that is giving them more money and resources to keep working on their projects. Last week they showed Linux versions of JBuilder and C++ compiler at the shareholder meeting. Should I say more ? I'm actually suprised that that news was all over the Net except on/.
Microsoft for all intents and purposes now 'owns' Borland/Inprise - whatever you want to call them.
Nonsense. They own 10% in shares. Did you see any announcement of MS being on the board of directors ? I didn't. There is another investor that has more than 6% of the company. 10% is not owning the company and perhaps in future they will sell the shares. Let's stick to the facts. And the "short" term cash is significant, Inprise basically doubled the amount of cash. This is very good news, it takes money to pay salaries to develop Linux products:)
2. JBuilder, etc. already outsourced to Oracle (renamed to JDeveloper)
Not really. JBuilder has not been outsourced at all. JBuilder is developed 100% at Inprise/Borland, Oracle had a licence for it and they renamed it in part of their tools but there's no JBuilder developement in Oracle except the extensions that they have made for integrating their database.
Read the press-release, Microsoft has no control over Inprise because of this agreement. Last week Inprise demoed the C++ compiler (not the IDE) and JBuilder (compiler AND IDE) at the shareholders meeting. I guess you don't have to wait for hell to freezes over, just few months as announced.
Just to make it clear, this is not going to change the direction of JBuilder or other Linux projects. Inprise just demoed JBuilder on Linux together with the C++ compiler at last week shareholder meeting. If anything this infusion of cash will give more power to Borland/Inprise to speed up the development.
Sad but true, also the status JDK today on Linux doesn't allow to ship a product even if you had it ready today (sorry JDK 1.1 is not an option). On that regard Solaris is more mature but hopefully the Linux port of the JDK will be ready for the relase date.
i know that u can use cli for bcc, delphi but what about jBuilder? does win32 jBuilder allow for command line compiling?
Absolutely ! There's a command line compiler called bmj.exe (Borland Make Java compiler). It compiles java sources from the command line and does automatic dependency checking with minimal recompilation. Try "bmj -p your_package_name_here"
This is interesting because for years Borland C++ has been the most standard-compliant C++ on the market. BC++ has not been abandoned but migrated into BCB, it was the only logical choice. Now, VJ++ is one proprietary piece of software that will not see the Linux light for sure.
Except the default code it generates is UGLY and it is very hard to modify if you ever get out of the enviroment. And the Visual Cafe greats event listeners for you? Arghhh...
Not to write a shameful plug but that's why JBuilder has an actual Java compiler as part of the designer. The code generated is clear and it doesn't contain markers in form of comments. If you edit the code and add your stuff the designer will be still able to read the UI-specific stuff. We call this two-way-tools.
it doesn't refresh the display properly, it uses funky, non-standard Java classes like "GridBagConstraints2", and it's got a lousy deployment wizard.
The GridBagConstraints2 was used to fill a gap in the GridBagLayout initialisation, compare the ctor for GridBagConstraints2 with equivalent code and you'll see what I mean. In addition the source for the class is included with JBuilder so you can simply move it in the package of your application and avoid depending on the JBuilder-specific jars. The new version is much more stable, has improved modules everywhere, including the help system and several Wizards.
JB 2.0 was about 30% Delphi code. The help system has been completely re-written for version 3.0 and is much improved. The new version for Solaris will be completely portable, I tested it already on Linux and it works.
So far RedHat contributed to the growth of Linux in substantial way. RPM is probably the best technology to install software today and it's Open Source so you can use it with other distros. Long before the first investors started being interested in RH, RH sponsored the development of GNOME (the G stands for GNU, so they are directly supporting OSS). So far, I believe, they have done nothing but good. Of course they can change in future but if we don't give credit to people that showed a lot of good will than nobody has a chance. You might disagree with their choice of software but there are several other distros and I don't believe there's a risk of having a "distribution monopoly" in the future.
I have a strong suspicion that had Mindcraft done their homework, their test results would never have seen the light of day in the first place.
That's the whole point of the sponsorship by MS. that's why we should reject any test that is sponsored by the party involved. Thanks for pointing that out.
So with the same logic you would accept the verdict of a jury that received some "gifts" from the opposed party. The source of the money does matter expecially when the source has so much money to buy every single employee in the testing agency. That's why we don't accept tests that are sponsored by the intereted party. As a matter of fact the testing methodology was not sound, they admitted to not being able to fine tune Linux and in general they showed they don't know Linux at all. If you try do a job you are not qualified for, than your downright dishonest. Mindcraft showed dishonesty and incompentence, the fact that they received money from MS is making things even worse.
MS doesn't build any hardware ? How can you say that ? Let's see, there the mouse, the sidewinder joystick series, the USB speaker and the WebTV box. I think it's a prtty good list and I believe I forgot something.
Yeah, the API thing is one the other is that they can easily drive somebody out of business using the revenues from Windows. For example, they spent about 500 million dollars for IE and gave it for free just to destroy Netscape. With a split in two the application division will have to show profit and will have less availability of cash to do this kind of dirty tricks.
As I said, don't tell me that there are other choices because I remember the days when chosing a Word processor actually implied use of your brain and comparison of features. Today almost every company in the western world (I don't know about the rest) uses MSWord. No choice. You might try to use a compatible product but there's no way to avoid it. Same for spreadsheet. Same for gaming API, if it wasn't for John Carmack we would not have any choice between D3D and OpenGL and you could forget about Quake on Linux. How that happened ? Not with competition, I welcome competition and I know that to be competitive you must be tough. That's not the problem. The problem is killing other product putting bogus incompatibilities in Windows (DR DOS and OS/2 for just a couple of examples) As I said this practice has been used since the days of DOS 2.11 when MS decided to release the OS only after Lotus 1-2-3 was released in order to push their product (anybody remember Multiplan:) ?) MS has destroyed people's freedom of choice in the field of applications for PC, that's a fact. They did it using unfair techniques and illegal contracts in collaboration with other vendors. They did it with threatening and treachery not competition.
I like all three proposals, kudos to RMS for a very clear, short and on-target article. I do feel thought that this would not be enough. We still need to break MS into at least two separate companies (not just divisions): applications and OS. I would also make the contracts with hardware vendors like Compaq and Dell public for revision. We don't just need to limit the future damage but try to mend the past one.
The problem in this matter is not the so called MS-rights. MS deliberately removed one of the fundamental rights of people: freedom of choice. Unless you have no recollection of the PC industry the entiry history of PC SW development is defined by the tactict of MS used to crush competintion using the OS. This happened since the days of DOS 2.x. The point is not that MS write crappy software, the point is how the use it to control people. To this extent we have to stop them and regain freedom of choice. Don't tell me "if you don't like their software don't buy it". I havent bought MS software in all my life and I don't use it. But for millions of people there no choice and no alternative. They walk in a store and 99% of the times they will walk out with a Windows PC + MS Office. I like the proposals of RMS, I do believe that that's not enough and MS should be broken into pieces. Even after that we will still have to work very hard to gain our freedom of choice back.
If you want to start a language war at least get your facts straight. Perl, in it's 10 years of life, has been ported to basically every platform, including Atari ST or mainframes. Java is still struggling to be on Linux. Second, Perl is several times faster than any Java app. native code compilation is in the works. BTW, the number of modules (classes) available for Perl today will be a target for Java for a long time.
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This is a total misinterpretation. Read it again, it's exectly the opposite. MS has to pay $100 million as settlement for "patent issues", MS has to buy $25 million is Borland ..er, Inprise shares :). Inprise is getting all the technology licence to support Windows without problems. Let's just reason about it. With Linux we don't need no "Opentools", the OS and the libraries are there and there are no licencing problems. With Windows you have to have a licence to include windows.h or you cannot develop a compiler for Win32. It's that simple, ask the guys at Cygnus. Borland had to have that license in the past years and it need the license to continue to develop tools for Windows. There's no secret agenda, there are no "ambiguos plans". Be happy that Borland has now much more cash to feed those hungry programmers that it hires :). We just demoed our latest technology for Linux at the company shareholders meeting. JBuilder for linux is coming soon.
This is MS's attempt trying to replace CORBA with COM/COM+/DCOM/YourCOM/MyCOM/EveryoneHasaCOMCOM
No, it's not. This is MS paying, better late than never, for using Inprise patented technology. The 10% buy of shares is common practice in this kind of settlements. Look at the Apple case, MS bought $150 Million in shares. In this case they pay $100 million in cash and $25 million in shares. I know that there is a lot of emotiional stress in this kind of things but this is actually excellent news for Inprise given that they have now a vast amount of cash for the Windows and Linux projects.
Excuse me but how is that cashing $125 million makes somebody "byte the dust". Totally misinterpreted. Read the article, it's Microsft paying Inprise not the other way around :)
This announcement is not about Inprise "dealing" with MS. They got some money as payment for usage of patents. It's acompensation. The 10% in shares, please note that it's not enough for doing anything, is pretty common preactice in this kind of settlements. Compare this with $150 million of the Apple settelement. Is Apple being controlled by MS ? I don't think so. Are they dead ? Absolutely no, in fact Apple is enjoining the best period in a long time.
Relax, JBuilder for Linux is coming soon.
Why ? Please read the announcement. MS agreed to give Inprise $100 million as a settlement for patent issues and buy $25 million in shares. /.
The article also underlines that Inprise will have access to the Windows technology, there is no mention of MS controlling or obtaining anything from Inprise.
This is not going to change Inprise except that is giving them more money and resources to keep working on their projects. Last week they showed Linux versions of JBuilder and C++ compiler at the shareholder meeting. Should I say more ? I'm actually suprised that that news was all over the Net except on
Microsoft for all intents and purposes now 'owns' Borland/Inprise - whatever you want to call them.
:)
Nonsense. They own 10% in shares. Did you see any announcement of MS being on the board of directors ? I didn't. There is another investor that has more than 6% of the company. 10% is not owning the company and perhaps in future they will sell the shares. Let's stick to the facts. And the "short" term cash is significant, Inprise basically doubled the amount of cash. This is very good news, it takes money to pay salaries to develop Linux products
2. JBuilder, etc. already outsourced to Oracle (renamed to JDeveloper)
Not really. JBuilder has not been outsourced at all. JBuilder is developed 100% at Inprise/Borland, Oracle had a licence for it and they renamed it in part of their tools but there's no JBuilder developement in Oracle except the extensions that they have made for integrating their database.
Read the press-release, Microsoft has no control over Inprise because of this agreement. Last week Inprise demoed the C++ compiler (not the IDE) and JBuilder (compiler AND IDE) at the shareholders meeting. I guess you don't have to wait for hell to freezes over, just few months as announced.
Just to make it clear, this is not going to change the direction of JBuilder or other Linux projects. Inprise just demoed JBuilder on Linux together with the C++ compiler at last week shareholder meeting. If anything this infusion of cash will give more power to Borland/Inprise to speed up the development.
simple, run "esdctl off" and "esdctl on" after you exited the game.
Sad but true, also the status JDK today on Linux doesn't allow to ship a product even if you had it ready today (sorry JDK 1.1 is not an option). On that regard Solaris is more mature but hopefully the Linux port of the JDK will be ready for the relase date.
i know that u can use cli for bcc, delphi but what about jBuilder? does win32 jBuilder allow for command line compiling?
Absolutely ! There's a command line compiler called bmj.exe (Borland Make Java compiler). It compiles java sources from the command line and does automatic dependency checking with minimal recompilation. Try "bmj -p your_package_name_here"
This is interesting because for years Borland C++ has been the most standard-compliant C++ on the market. BC++ has not been abandoned but migrated into BCB, it was the only logical choice. Now, VJ++ is one proprietary piece of software that will not see the Linux light for sure.
Except the default code it generates is UGLY and it is very hard to modify if you ever get out of the enviroment. And the Visual Cafe greats event listeners for you? Arghhh...
Not to write a shameful plug but that's why JBuilder has an actual Java compiler as part of the designer. The code generated is clear and it doesn't contain markers in form of comments. If you edit the code and add your stuff the designer will be still able to read the UI-specific stuff. We call this two-way-tools.
it doesn't refresh the display properly, it uses funky, non-standard Java classes like "GridBagConstraints2", and it's got a lousy deployment wizard.
The GridBagConstraints2 was used to fill a gap in the GridBagLayout initialisation, compare the ctor for GridBagConstraints2 with equivalent code and you'll see what I mean. In addition the source for the class is included with JBuilder so you can simply move it in the package of your application and avoid depending on the JBuilder-specific jars. The new version is much more stable, has improved modules everywhere, including the help system and several Wizards.
JB 2.0 was about 30% Delphi code. The help system has been completely re-written for version 3.0 and is much improved. The new version for Solaris will be completely portable, I tested it already on Linux and it works.
So far RedHat contributed to the growth of Linux in substantial way. RPM is probably the best technology to install software today and it's Open Source so you can use it with other distros. Long before the first investors started being interested in RH, RH sponsored the development of GNOME (the G stands for GNU, so they are directly supporting OSS). So far, I believe, they have done nothing but good. Of course they can change in future but if we don't give credit to people that showed a lot of good will than nobody has a chance. You might disagree with their choice of software but there are several other distros and I don't believe there's a risk of having a "distribution monopoly" in the future.
I have a strong suspicion that had Mindcraft done their homework, their test results would never have seen the light of day in the first place.
That's the whole point of the sponsorship by MS. that's why we should reject any test that is sponsored by the party involved. Thanks for pointing that out.
--Paolo
So with the same logic you would accept the verdict of a jury that received some "gifts" from the opposed party. The source of the money does matter expecially when the source has so much money to buy every single employee in the testing agency. That's why we don't accept tests that are sponsored by the intereted party. As a matter of fact the testing methodology was not sound, they admitted to not being able to fine tune Linux and in general they showed they don't know Linux at all. If you try do a job you are not qualified for, than your downright dishonest. Mindcraft showed dishonesty and incompentence, the fact that they received money from MS is making things even worse.
MS doesn't build any hardware ? How can you say that ? Let's see, there the mouse, the sidewinder joystick series, the USB speaker and the WebTV box. I think it's a prtty good list and I believe I forgot something.
Yeah, the API thing is one the other is that they can easily drive somebody out of business using the revenues from Windows. For example, they spent about 500 million dollars for IE and gave it for free just to destroy Netscape. With a split in two the application division will have to show profit and will have less availability of cash to do this kind of dirty tricks.
As I said, don't tell me that there are other choices because I remember the days when chosing a Word processor actually implied use of your brain and comparison of features. Today almost every company in the western world (I don't know about the rest) uses MSWord. No choice. You might try to use a compatible product but there's no way to avoid it. Same for spreadsheet. Same for gaming API, if it wasn't for John Carmack we would not have any choice between D3D and OpenGL and you could forget about Quake on Linux. :) ?) MS has destroyed people's freedom of choice in the field of applications for PC, that's a fact. They did it using unfair techniques and illegal contracts in collaboration with other vendors. They did it with threatening and treachery not competition.
How that happened ? Not with competition, I welcome competition and I know that to be competitive you must be tough. That's not the problem. The problem is killing other product putting bogus incompatibilities in Windows (DR DOS and OS/2 for just a couple of examples) As I said this practice has been used since the days of DOS 2.11 when MS decided to release the OS only after Lotus 1-2-3 was released in order to push their product (anybody remember Multiplan
I like all three proposals, kudos to RMS for a very clear, short and on-target article. I do feel thought that this would not be enough. We still need to break MS into at least two separate companies (not just divisions): applications and OS. I would also make the contracts with hardware vendors like Compaq and Dell public for revision. We don't just need to limit the future damage but try to mend the past one.
The problem in this matter is not the so called MS-rights. MS deliberately removed one of the fundamental rights of people: freedom of choice. Unless you have no recollection of the PC industry the entiry history of PC SW development is defined by the tactict of MS used to crush competintion using the OS. This happened since the days of DOS 2.x. The point is not that MS write crappy software, the point is how the use it to control people. To this extent we have to stop them and regain freedom of choice. Don't tell me "if you don't like their software don't buy it". I havent bought MS software in all my life and I don't use it. But for millions of people there no choice and no alternative. They walk in a store and 99% of the times they will walk out with a Windows PC + MS Office.
I like the proposals of RMS, I do believe that that's not enough and MS should be broken into pieces. Even after that we will still have to work very hard to gain our freedom of choice back.
--Paolo
If you want to start a language war at least get your facts straight. Perl, in it's 10 years of life, has been ported to basically every platform, including Atari ST or mainframes. Java is still struggling to be on Linux. Second, Perl is several times faster than any Java app. native code compilation is in the works. BTW, the number of modules (classes) available for Perl today will be a target for Java for a long time.