D00d,
I know a good dentist. Your gonna want to have those choppers checked so you don't have to have multiple root-canals from using the marching powder. Also, please be aware of the long term phycological effects from meth use - depression, anxiety, sexual disfunction, etc. etc. etc.
You sir... are an (trolling) idiot. How many Sun servers have you purchased and/or even seen in the last year(s)? These machines are truely things of beauty. Works of art to be sure. Java proprietary ?!?! Hardly. THE F*CKING SOURCE CODE IT AVAILABLE FOR F*CKING DOWNLOAD! Just because they don't want to turn it over to an cluster f*cking stds body doesn't make it proprietary! Does it? Wow... I may be drunk, but in the morning I'll be sober, and you will still be a dumb-*ss!
Oh yeah BTW, my SUNW has done pretty well over the last several yrs (how's your MSFT doing these days?)
out.
...they want to sell software. They have a huge division making products for the Mac. IE5 is comes pre-installed on MAC OSX (dp4 anyway). Which means they already have a port running on BSD albeit using the Aqua UI stuff.
Anyone know if they are using the NeXTSTEP/OpentStep Obj-C stuff here ?
Uh... don't be so sure, the latest developer CD contains Java2 and they have ported HotSpot to the PPC/Mach/BSD/MacOSX platform. They've wrapped all the NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/WebObjects APIs to be accesible from Java. They have also ported Swing to work with the underlying NS* classes.
You really should consider the bigger picture. Saying that Java/UML (Rational) can not cut it in the trenches is really rather daft. What you really mean is that you didn't properly design objects well enough at the beginning, and probably rushed into hacking code before you had a clear understanding of the problem. Your design quickly eroded into a clusterf*ck of intermingled objects and dependencies, and you had no way of knowing how it worked. Man if you can't get something designed an written using UML/Java, I hate to see what you come up with in C++. Do you use a lot of freind functions/classes in C++ ? The real problem is that OOA/OOD is really hard for many people to do. It takes vision, time, disipline, and patience. Things very few developers have. Who cares what the 'language of the future is'. If you can't design well, your stuff will be crappy in any language.
My guess is that rather than "weaken java" as a goal, that "weaken java" is a nice side effect. Here's what I mean. Right now MS has VB and VC++ neither of these languages can compete with Java when it comes to designing network aware systems that must be able to scale. Neither of these languages can compete in a networked world with Java. (forget speed issues for a moment, cause 5 years from now it doesn't matter). After many many years doing C/C++, and now working entirely in Java, I can tell you that for implementing large systems that must be robust, scaleable, secure, networked, etc. there is no better chioce than Java. Can I implement an elegant design in C++ ? Yes. Do I want to ? No, not really. Java allows you to design and implement products and new features more quickly than C++. To get back to my point, MiSFiT knows this. And they know that they need this technology to integrate seemlessly with all their current legacy stuff. They just want a way to do it that works well for them. They see that their current business model is heavily threatened by the net, and Java technologies. Frankly, when I have to work on a given platform, I want the best integration to that platform available if/when I need to do something platform specific.
Very well reasoned. One pick: "Plus, a JVM that is libre-free and MS-sanctioned JVM will most likely kill the market for competing JVMs on Win32. " There really is no 'market' for VMs right now. You can get free ones from Sun, IBM, and others that are solid. Each are simple loss leaders to get people into the technology so you can sell them more problem domain specific software, and in the case of Sun and IBM, hardware.
"In either case, developers should steer very clear of Java for the forseeable future."
uhh yeah, OK, right.
next!
Beware Corporate-Controlled Languages
on
HotSpot arrives
·
· Score: 1
Fully agree upto: "As far as waiting on Java, I somewhat agree with you. I still don't trust it enough to bet the farm on it, but it's the performance issues that worry me, and it looks as if those aren't going to be around long." MHO: If you are not betting on or at least learning (read: writing real code in)Java, you will find yourself WAY behind over the next year or so. There are serious players 'betting the farm' on Java and related technologies... and these people are not about to lose. Even MiSFiT is cranking out new (and improved) VMs...
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D00d, I know a good dentist. Your gonna want to have those choppers checked so you don't have to have multiple root-canals from using the marching powder. Also, please be aware of the long term phycological effects from meth use - depression, anxiety, sexual disfunction, etc. etc. etc.
You sir... are an (trolling) idiot. How many Sun servers have you purchased and/or even seen in the last year(s)? These machines are truely things of beauty. Works of art to be sure. Java proprietary ?!?! Hardly. THE F*CKING SOURCE CODE IT AVAILABLE FOR F*CKING DOWNLOAD! Just because they don't want to turn it over to an cluster f*cking stds body doesn't make it proprietary! Does it? Wow... I may be drunk, but in the morning I'll be sober, and you will still be a dumb-*ss! Oh yeah BTW, my SUNW has done pretty well over the last several yrs (how's your MSFT doing these days?) out.
...they want to sell software. They have a huge division making products for the Mac. IE5 is comes pre-installed on MAC OSX (dp4 anyway). Which means they already have a port running on BSD albeit using the Aqua UI stuff.
Anyone know if they are using the NeXTSTEP/OpentStep Obj-C stuff here ?
late.
Uh... don't be so sure, the latest developer CD contains Java2 and they have ported HotSpot to the PPC/Mach/BSD/MacOSX platform. They've wrapped all the NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/WebObjects APIs to be accesible from Java. They have also ported Swing to work with the underlying NS* classes.
Bruce Eckel's _Thinking in Java_ is worth checking out.
You really should consider the bigger picture. Saying that Java/UML (Rational) can not cut it in the trenches is really rather daft. What you really mean is that you didn't properly design objects well enough at the beginning, and probably rushed into hacking code before you had a clear understanding of the problem. Your design quickly eroded into a clusterf*ck of intermingled objects and dependencies, and you had no way of knowing how it worked. Man if you can't get something designed an written using UML/Java, I hate to see what you come up with in C++. Do you use a lot of freind functions/classes in C++ ? The real problem is that OOA/OOD is really hard for many people to do. It takes vision, time, disipline, and patience. Things very few developers have.
Who cares what the 'language of the future is'. If you can't design well, your stuff will be crappy in any language.
My guess is that rather than "weaken java" as a goal, that "weaken java" is a nice side effect. Here's what I mean. Right now MS has VB and VC++ neither of these languages can compete with Java when it comes to designing network aware systems that must be able to scale. Neither of these languages can compete in a networked world with Java. (forget speed issues for a moment, cause 5 years from now it doesn't matter). After many many years doing C/C++, and now working entirely in Java, I can tell you that for implementing large systems that must be robust, scaleable, secure, networked, etc. there is no better chioce than Java. Can I implement an elegant design in C++ ? Yes. Do I want to ? No, not really. Java allows you to design and implement products and new features more quickly than C++. To get back to my point, MiSFiT knows this. And they know that they need this technology to integrate seemlessly with all their current legacy stuff. They just want a way to do it that works well for them. They see that their current business model is heavily threatened by the net, and Java technologies. Frankly, when I have to work on a given platform, I want the best integration to that platform available if/when I need to do something platform specific.
Very well reasoned.
One pick:
"Plus, a JVM that is libre-free and MS-sanctioned JVM will most likely kill the market for competing JVMs on Win32. "
There really is no 'market' for VMs right now. You can get free ones from Sun, IBM, and others that are solid. Each are simple loss leaders to get people into the technology so you can sell them more problem domain specific software, and in the case of Sun and IBM, hardware.
"In either case, developers should steer very clear of Java for the forseeable future."
uhh yeah, OK, right.
next!
Fully agree upto:
"As far as waiting on Java, I somewhat agree with you. I still don't trust it enough to bet the farm on it, but it's the performance issues that worry me, and it looks as if those aren't going to be around long."
MHO: If you are not betting on or at least learning (read: writing real code in)Java, you will find yourself WAY behind over the next year or so. There are serious players 'betting the farm' on Java and related technologies... and these people are not about to lose. Even MiSFiT is cranking out new (and improved) VMs...