In a similar vein, I'm sure the effect in discussion is exactly why there are so many irrelevant pictures of Happy Sexy People on sites that sell stuff.
But when I see a useless picture of Happy Sexy People on a website, I'm instantly turned off. I'm not there to be happified or masturbated, I'm there to do some task, and the Happy Sexy People cue tells me that the site wants to Sell Me Something I Don't Want.
"I won't ever use a desktop environment that doesn't automatically apply preference changes."
Conversely, I won't use one that DOES automatically apply preference changes -- because it is FAR too easy to make a mistake you can't readily recover from (like setting text and background to the same colour). I want some sort of "Hey stupid, did you really mean Do THIS?" query *before* changes are applied, just in case That Wasn't What I Meant.
Right-click menus that are too long can be helped with grouped submenus. I don't recall seeing this as an issue with KDE, but it's been a while since I looked.
IMO "Open Folder in Same Window" should be the default, not something you have to set. Most people simply want to navigate the dirtree, not wind up with 50 open windows.
Speaking of view settings, I don't know if this has been fixed since my now-ancient MDK7 setup, but many settings simply don't STICK. I got really tired of having to select View As Details EVERY time I used Konq.
Re the Save As reverting to the origin location, I'm frequently annoyed by that too. I think "switch to New Default Save directory" (like WordPerfect 5.0 could do in 1988!) would be a good context menu item.
Better yet, let me add Save Location on the fly, and pick the desired one from the context menu. I often open an image from a CD, save a basic edit in one location, and save a further edit in some other location, and it'd be nice to just pick the Save directory on the fly, and not have to navigate back and forth each time.
Windows has a limited "undo" function for file moves and such done thru Explorer. I have no idea what's available on *NIX... I will say its "delete is forever" thing bothers me. I can recover ooopsies in DOS/Win easily enough, if I get to 'em fairly soon. Dunno what's available for *NIX now but used to be you had to recover ooopsie-deletes by doing a sector dump, then look for your file in the raw data. (Kindof like recovering data from a swapfile!)
Like yourself, I have no idea what the limits of a *NIX undo utility would be, tho I expect either the filesystem or the OS would need to keep some sort of logs and backups. Of course, real *NIX admins NEVER make mistakes, so only us silly users would want such a thing;)
BTW there are some interesting posts over on the "10 years of KDE" article. Myself, I like KDE best of the *NIX desktops I've tried.
That sounds kindof like a configuration utility I've been begging for (not being a coder, I can't do it myself) -- give us the GUI so we can see the options right there in plain sight, but in a second panel, SHOW us exactly what is being done to the actual config file's text -- so we can learn by watching it happen in realtime. That way even beginners can learn config file syntax without having to plow through manuals that to non-geeks, make NO sense out of context.
This can't be rocket science to accomplish -- even some fairly primitive HTML editors can do simultaneous WYSIWYG and raw mode editing, which is functionally the same process as the above-described config utility.
That's indeed an advantage of the command line -- the ability to do stuff in batch mode. I started in plain old DOS, where batch files were a way of life.:)
The downside of the CLI is that most of the time, you can't SEE what you actually DID... so if you made a mistake, too late now!!
And that's why we have tools like XTree and Midnight Commander... so CLI junkies can see their mistakes BEFORE they make 'em:)
Thanks for the clarification on the permissions thing -- I definitely prefer to learn from someone else's pain rather than experience it firsthand:)
Now I'm wondering -- isn't there any linux utility that can change files' ownership en masse? If there is, it could be used to fix such a mess. If not, some enterprising coder oughta give it a whirl.
The Mandrake config thing wasn't timing out, it was sometimes a matter of mere seconds between login demands. Quite annoying! it had some other problems too, like when it asked to save or abandon changes didn't make the best of sense. Hopefully by now it's matured some... I need to look at a newer disty, since overall, I've liked MDK best. (I still can't call it Mandriva. Silly name!)
I dunno. Last tube with a lens in it that I saw would have completely crushed anyone who blundered underneath it.:)
As to the nominal topic... some years ago I was on my way to a SF convention, and the date happened to be Friday the 13th. I stopped at Costco to get a big bag of M&Ms and one other minor item, I forget what. The total turned out to be $13.13.... Coincidence?;)
Yes, I can see how for the average person being handed Ubuntu, simply not having access to the root account at all may well be the wise approach. After all the whole idea with Ubuntu is that it's for real humans[tm], not sysadmins.:)
OTOH, one of my annoyances with Mandrake 7.something (which I mostly like) was that every time I wanted to twiddle some config item, it made me log in as root. For *each* item on a very long list. Would have made more sense to get the root login when I started up the config util, and make it stick for the duration, then log out when I closed the config.
Good points. In short, while religion often has some basis in fact, the *interpretation* may have little to do with said facts.
For some reason this brings to mind the hunt for the ancient city of Troy -- as I recall various archeologists wound up digging up not one city, but 10 or so along the coast of present-day Turkey, and last I paid attention (admittedly decades ago) they still didn't know which, if any, was Troy!
Very interesting. And yes, if it were just one calendar that was screwed up and needed adjustments, maybe, but not worldwide.
Any astrological events (including asteroid hits on Earth's surface, or possibly on the moon -- big tidal force maybe enough??) that could account for it?
Good examples of how IF you know what you're doing, the commandline is really a shortcut. But if you don't, and don't know where to ask (which is a real problem for most casual users of any OS) -- the CLI is worse than useless, and they need something that will lead 'em along the right path.
You and I would think to google/forum-hunt, but average folk have no idea any such help is available. Or as noted before, they don't have the time, inclination, or background -- they need it to Just Work.
Thanks for the tip about sudo; that's the first time I've *ever* seen it explained, tho folks throw the word around a lot!
I've never gotten Debian to install (or at best it would go thru the motions, then hang partway along, or install but refuse to load the desktop). But I do remember other "primitive" textmode installers, common in the pre-2000 disties. As you say they're fine if someone at least has DOS background or similar clues, but when the average GUI-raised user sees such a thing, they think their computer is sick!
I did like the U6 application installer, that more or less emulates WinXP's Add/Remove programs thingee. Very easy to see what you're going to do. No need to know about apt get -xj6 -23i -packagename -dependency -???!!
Ah, thanks. Does make me wonder about the wisdom of having the LiveCD load by default -- tho a good way to do it would be to make it require no more than the minimum for Ubuntu as installed on the HD. Likely if it doesn't load anything but the really needful parts (no server stuff, etc.) it could be trimmed down a lot. Perhaps that's what the "alternative" CD does??
How much RAM does the LiveCD actually need? last month our LUG installed Ubuntu 6.current on a P3-700 with 256mb RAM, and it did okay -- 6.x loads the live CD by default (or at least some significant portion of it), THEN gives you the install option.
The main problem we had was that it got stuck at 640x480 video; apparently didn't recognise or had no driver for the middle-aged Intel onboard video chip.
I had U5 here, then put U6 on the same machine, and noticed it was significantly faster than U5 -- maybe because U6 seems to load less needless junk.
Well, maybe not. I haven't seen this book yet, but... What the original "For Dummies" series GOT, is that non-geeks want to pick up a computer book and NOT HAVE TO READ IT. They want to look in the Table of Contents, find an *obvious* reference to their problem, and see a SIMPLE, ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE step-by-step guide -- preferably visual rather than text. (People who don't speak computerese are less likely to be confused by a picture than by a series of foreign-sounding words.)
So, yes, you're absolutely right that non-geeks don't want to READ about computer stuff -- largely because as far as they can tell, most are not even in English, and few books come with an interpreter.
But non-geeks still need reference books -- they just have to be geared toward non-geeks, and written in plain language -- NOT in geek-speak.
That's exactly what way too many geeks don't get -- MOST people just want to fling the CD at the machine, thump on a few fairly obvious and OPTIONAL configuration points, and go on about their business. They don't have the time, inclination, or background to delve into building their OS from scratch.
Ubuntu was a step in the right direction, and sounds like this book totally groks the concept: Get 'em up and using it right away, then offer more stuff to mess with -- when and IF the user wants or needs it.
That's at least one positive note for the people who have to live there...
How far underground would it need to be, to be reasonably well sealed off? And how large of a glassy chamber would it create?
Considering the sad state of the country, one has to wonder about the level of competence surrounding any such tests, and whether they'd bother with even the most basic safety protocols.:(
Anyone else find themselves reminded of Idi Amin??
I once saw a documentary that was made with his blessing -- it followed Idi Amin around for several weeks. Even on his best behaviour for the international cameras, the man was a complete raving loon, whose only real interest was his own paranoia and aggrandizement. Probably the worst thing that ever happened to Uganda. (Wikipedia is far too kind. http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/amin.html is more to the point. I see Kim has a page there too.)
Maybe you can answer this -- assuming it *was* a nuke of the guesstimated size (all of which is, as you say, open to question), approximately how much of this very small country would it render unfit for human habitation, and for how long?
ISTM a little country like North Korea just doesn't have the land to waste. Tho I doubt the boss there much *cares*.
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An AC says, "What? You mean you've never freebased freshly baked chocolate chip cookies?"
:)
Certainly I have! Easiest method is to just eat all the dough without bothering to bake it.
In a similar vein, I'm sure the effect in discussion is exactly why there are so many irrelevant pictures of Happy Sexy People on sites that sell stuff.
:)
But when I see a useless picture of Happy Sexy People on a website, I'm instantly turned off. I'm not there to be happified or masturbated, I'm there to do some task, and the Happy Sexy People cue tells me that the site wants to Sell Me Something I Don't Want.
And yes, I have very high marketing resistance
"I won't ever use a desktop environment that doesn't automatically apply preference changes."
Conversely, I won't use one that DOES automatically apply preference changes -- because it is FAR too easy to make a mistake you can't readily recover from (like setting text and background to the same colour). I want some sort of "Hey stupid, did you really mean Do THIS?" query *before* changes are applied, just in case That Wasn't What I Meant.
Right-click menus that are too long can be helped with grouped submenus. I don't recall seeing this as an issue with KDE, but it's been a while since I looked.
IMO "Open Folder in Same Window" should be the default, not something you have to set. Most people simply want to navigate the dirtree, not wind up with 50 open windows.
Speaking of view settings, I don't know if this has been fixed since my now-ancient MDK7 setup, but many settings simply don't STICK. I got really tired of having to select View As Details EVERY time I used Konq.
Re the Save As reverting to the origin location, I'm frequently annoyed by that too. I think "switch to New Default Save directory" (like WordPerfect 5.0 could do in 1988!) would be a good context menu item.
Better yet, let me add Save Location on the fly, and pick the desired one from the context menu. I often open an image from a CD, save a basic edit in one location, and save a further edit in some other location, and it'd be nice to just pick the Save directory on the fly, and not have to navigate back and forth each time.
Windows has a limited "undo" function for file moves and such done thru Explorer. I have no idea what's available on *NIX... I will say its "delete is forever" thing bothers me. I can recover ooopsies in DOS/Win easily enough, if I get to 'em fairly soon. Dunno what's available for *NIX now but used to be you had to recover ooopsie-deletes by doing a sector dump, then look for your file in the raw data. (Kindof like recovering data from a swapfile!)
;)
Like yourself, I have no idea what the limits of a *NIX undo utility would be, tho I expect either the filesystem or the OS would need to keep some sort of logs and backups. Of course, real *NIX admins NEVER make mistakes, so only us silly users would want such a thing
BTW there are some interesting posts over on the "10 years of KDE" article. Myself, I like KDE best of the *NIX desktops I've tried.
That sounds kindof like a configuration utility I've been begging for (not being a coder, I can't do it myself) -- give us the GUI so we can see the options right there in plain sight, but in a second panel, SHOW us exactly what is being done to the actual config file's text -- so we can learn by watching it happen in realtime. That way even beginners can learn config file syntax without having to plow through manuals that to non-geeks, make NO sense out of context.
This can't be rocket science to accomplish -- even some fairly primitive HTML editors can do simultaneous WYSIWYG and raw mode editing, which is functionally the same process as the above-described config utility.
That's indeed an advantage of the command line -- the ability to do stuff in batch mode. I started in plain old DOS, where batch files were a way of life. :)
... so if you made a mistake, too late now!!
:)
:)
The downside of the CLI is that most of the time, you can't SEE what you actually DID
And that's why we have tools like XTree and Midnight Commander... so CLI junkies can see their mistakes BEFORE they make 'em
Thanks for the clarification on the permissions thing -- I definitely prefer to learn from someone else's pain rather than experience it firsthand
Wow, lots of good advice there!
Now I'm wondering -- isn't there any linux utility that can change files' ownership en masse? If there is, it could be used to fix such a mess. If not, some enterprising coder oughta give it a whirl.
The Mandrake config thing wasn't timing out, it was sometimes a matter of mere seconds between login demands. Quite annoying! it had some other problems too, like when it asked to save or abandon changes didn't make the best of sense. Hopefully by now it's matured some... I need to look at a newer disty, since overall, I've liked MDK best. (I still can't call it Mandriva. Silly name!)
I dunno. Last tube with a lens in it that I saw would have completely crushed anyone who blundered underneath it. :)
.... Coincidence? ;)
As to the nominal topic... some years ago I was on my way to a SF convention, and the date happened to be Friday the 13th. I stopped at Costco to get a big bag of M&Ms and one other minor item, I forget what. The total turned out to be $13.13
Ah! [light bulb] Good explanation.
:)
Yes, I can see how for the average person being handed Ubuntu, simply not having access to the root account at all may well be the wise approach. After all the whole idea with Ubuntu is that it's for real humans[tm], not sysadmins.
OTOH, one of my annoyances with Mandrake 7.something (which I mostly like) was that every time I wanted to twiddle some config item, it made me log in as root. For *each* item on a very long list. Would have made more sense to get the root login when I started up the config util, and make it stick for the duration, then log out when I closed the config.
Good points. In short, while religion often has some basis in fact, the *interpretation* may have little to do with said facts.
For some reason this brings to mind the hunt for the ancient city of Troy -- as I recall various archeologists wound up digging up not one city, but 10 or so along the coast of present-day Turkey, and last I paid attention (admittedly decades ago) they still didn't know which, if any, was Troy!
Very interesting. And yes, if it were just one calendar that was screwed up and needed adjustments, maybe, but not worldwide.
Any astrological events (including asteroid hits on Earth's surface, or possibly on the moon -- big tidal force maybe enough??) that could account for it?
Anything similar in previous historical eras??
Good examples of how IF you know what you're doing, the commandline is really a shortcut. But if you don't, and don't know where to ask (which is a real problem for most casual users of any OS) -- the CLI is worse than useless, and they need something that will lead 'em along the right path.
You and I would think to google/forum-hunt, but average folk have no idea any such help is available. Or as noted before, they don't have the time, inclination, or background -- they need it to Just Work.
Thanks for the tip about sudo; that's the first time I've *ever* seen it explained, tho folks throw the word around a lot!
I've never gotten Debian to install (or at best it would go thru the motions, then hang partway along, or install but refuse to load the desktop). But I do remember other "primitive" textmode installers, common in the pre-2000 disties. As you say they're fine if someone at least has DOS background or similar clues, but when the average GUI-raised user sees such a thing, they think their computer is sick!
I did like the U6 application installer, that more or less emulates WinXP's Add/Remove programs thingee. Very easy to see what you're going to do. No need to know about apt get -xj6 -23i -packagename -dependency -???!!
Ah, thanks. Does make me wonder about the wisdom of having the LiveCD load by default -- tho a good way to do it would be to make it require no more than the minimum for Ubuntu as installed on the HD. Likely if it doesn't load anything but the really needful parts (no server stuff, etc.) it could be trimmed down a lot. Perhaps that's what the "alternative" CD does??
How much RAM does the LiveCD actually need? last month our LUG installed Ubuntu 6.current on a P3-700 with 256mb RAM, and it did okay -- 6.x loads the live CD by default (or at least some significant portion of it), THEN gives you the install option.
The main problem we had was that it got stuck at 640x480 video; apparently didn't recognise or had no driver for the middle-aged Intel onboard video chip.
I had U5 here, then put U6 on the same machine, and noticed it was significantly faster than U5 -- maybe because U6 seems to load less needless junk.
Well, maybe not. I haven't seen this book yet, but... What the original "For Dummies" series GOT, is that non-geeks want to pick up a computer book and NOT HAVE TO READ IT. They want to look in the Table of Contents, find an *obvious* reference to their problem, and see a SIMPLE, ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE step-by-step guide -- preferably visual rather than text. (People who don't speak computerese are less likely to be confused by a picture than by a series of foreign-sounding words.)
So, yes, you're absolutely right that non-geeks don't want to READ about computer stuff -- largely because as far as they can tell, most are not even in English, and few books come with an interpreter.
But non-geeks still need reference books -- they just have to be geared toward non-geeks, and written in plain language -- NOT in geek-speak.
That's exactly what way too many geeks don't get -- MOST people just want to fling the CD at the machine, thump on a few fairly obvious and OPTIONAL configuration points, and go on about their business. They don't have the time, inclination, or background to delve into building their OS from scratch.
Ubuntu was a step in the right direction, and sounds like this book totally groks the concept: Get 'em up and using it right away, then offer more stuff to mess with -- when and IF the user wants or needs it.
My top five??
:)
DOOM
DOOM
DOOM
DOOM
DOOM
And with 3500 PWADs and the SLIGE map generator, I never run out of DOOM.
That's what happens when you let megalomania get out of hand!! ;)
Because it was actually a test of those newfangled exploding laptop batteries. ;)
[eyeing tagline]
;)
Kim? is that you??
That's at least one positive note for the people who have to live there...
:(
How far underground would it need to be, to be reasonably well sealed off? And how large of a glassy chamber would it create?
Considering the sad state of the country, one has to wonder about the level of competence surrounding any such tests, and whether they'd bother with even the most basic safety protocols.
Anyone else find themselves reminded of Idi Amin??
I once saw a documentary that was made with his blessing -- it followed Idi Amin around for several weeks. Even on his best behaviour for the international cameras, the man was a complete raving loon, whose only real interest was his own paranoia and aggrandizement. Probably the worst thing that ever happened to Uganda. (Wikipedia is far too kind. http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/amin.html is more to the point. I see Kim has a page there too.)
Maybe you can answer this -- assuming it *was* a nuke of the guesstimated size (all of which is, as you say, open to question), approximately how much of this very small country would it render unfit for human habitation, and for how long?
ISTM a little country like North Korea just doesn't have the land to waste. Tho I doubt the boss there much *cares*.
No doubt (come to think of it I've seen a figure up in the 4M lines area) ... maybe the autochecker got overwhelmed already and quit :)