'Course, we've only recently had to tools to investigate and identify it...
Also this obsession with "only use enough to do the job" -- er, no. That is what selects for resistance, by killing all the weaker individuals but leaving the strongest alive. If you're going to treat, do so at a level that kills ALL of the target species.
In my application, I'm most interested in killing off parvovirus (a really tough virus, resistant to a lot of common chemicals, but reliably killed by bleach) and coccidia (another toughie but reliably killed by ammonia, which is why we should not be too anal about ammonia levels in livestock applications).
Yeah, but then the leaves are around its stem or trunk, which is an even less-good place to get a fungal infection. Leaves can be shed; roots and trunks cannot.
Deaves dry up before being shed (as water and nutrients are sucked out of them) and this generally applies to infected leaves as well, at any time of year. (Fall is not typically when fungal infections happen; rather, where spring rains and summer heat overlap.)
Uh, no. It's been a "thing" as long as I can remember, and I started gardening in 1965. Vegetables, not pot.
Camellias (the kind they sell at Home Depot, that make showy flowers) DO die back if they get water on the leaves in sunlight. Why I have no idea, but I lost several that way.
As to the "bed of nails" -- when I was a kid I observed that if I rubbed a finger across the leaf surface, water would stop beading up, and the leaf would get wet. Well, now I know why -- I was crushing these microstructures. And yes, they do "grow back".
Well, in this case that's kinda like asking "How long before humans evolve a mechanism to prevent 'em from bleeding out if someone cuts their throat?" It's basically putting a hole in the bacteria's skin.
This is when I need an anti-microbial to use on surfaces, I use straight undiluted 6% bleach. From what I've read, since it pretty much dissolves microbes, there is no resistance.
Consider how much further it is across the U.S., and how many more miles of roads we have than Japan or any country in Europe... in fact, the U.S. is only slightly smaller than of ALL of Europe combined.
A great deal of that infrastructure use of tax money is wasted, and I saw this over and over when I lived in SoCal -- which is a good deal of why building anything costs so damn much there.
Two instances, both involving state highways I used every day:
#1 (this was about 1985):
This very busy local road was slated to be widened from two lanes to four to accommodate upcoming development. So far so good... but after the new road was completely built (which was a massive undertaking since the old road proved to have a concrete bed three feet thick, which they deemed necessary to remove even tho the new lanes were to be in the same spot) -- a week after the job finished they had to dig it all back up again to lay water and sewer lines for the aforementioned new development, which had been approved BEFORE the original construction started, so it's not like they could claim needing the water/sewer lines came as a surprise. And a couple weeks after that was done, the road was dug up a THIRD time to lay some other utility lines. Pay mind to the fact that both utility projects were already approved and should have been included in the initial road project.
So we the taxpayers paid THREE times (or four if you count that the extra-sturdy original roadbed should have been kept as two of the new lanes) to build ONE finished road. I should perhaps also note that the same contractor got all three road construction jobs. (And the roadbed along there was lumpy ever after, because the repeated dig-back-ups compromised the new structure, possibly suspect to start with.)
#2: from about 2005 and ongoing:
Every year (and sometimes more than once a year) this high-traffic two-lane highway is resurfaced. Except they don't actually resurface it. They just spray it with a thin coat of sealant, insufficient to repair anything, let alone the accelerating webwork of cracks and potholes (along with heavy truck traffic, this area gets a lot of freeze and thaw in winter). Again, this job is done by a contractor, who is of course best served by maximizing both hours and "repeat business". Meanwhile, the highway is starting to fall apart (needlessly so) and they get to wave around how they need more and more money to repair it.
Totally agree... if we stopped funding shit we have no business doing in the first place, instead of a vast debt we'd have tax dollars coming out our ears. (Personally I think the gov't needs to return to being funded solely by tariffs, so its revenues are tied directly to the nation's exportable -- not just consumable -- productivity.)
"And you think average people who's salaries and average wealth has gone down by nearly 30% in the last decade alone should pay even more money because they could not spent anything on Roads and Infrastructure whilst they pissed away your money everywhere else?"
Predictable liberal response: "They should be walking, biking, or taking the bus anyway."
Talk to your local appliance repair dude. I'd found a good one, and when it came time to replace the washer and the fridge, I asked him which brands were good. He said the only ones worth a shit and worth repairing were Whirlpool (available at a sharp discount under the Costco/Kirkland label); everything else was basically disposable crap. He also said on a washer, to get plain old knobs and avoid electronic control panels, which soon corrode from the natural damp of a washing machine's innards and are costly to replace, while knobs last for ages and are cheap to fix.
They might have been navigating them in the same way, too... when I was vetting large numbers of salvage computers, nearly all the RAM was good, but if there was a dead stick -- more often than not it was a Kingston, despite that they were underrepresented in this sampling. Rather at odds with their position and reputation as a premium brand.
I was going to buy a couple flash drives so I read reviews on the target product... and a disturbing number had the same complaint when using a USB3 flash drive on a USB2-equipped computer:
Data corruption.
This wasn't just the usual crowd of knobs who don't know shit about hardware; it was largely reasonably savvy-sounding folks.
I'd think this is closer to the 5th Amendment, being a taking of property (which it became the moment we decided to grant trademarks in the first place).
It's been pointed out that a great many 'protestors' are professionals, paid to be there, which is why you see the same faces at protest events thousands of miles apart.
I think this is borne out by the fact that when someone conducts an ad hoc interview with random protestors, very rarely does one really know why he's there or what he's protesting... the answer is at best something vague like "for the people". Some become hostile at the mere question.
What's unclear is who is paying them, and if this is so, should such protests be legally "lobbying" rather than "free speech".
Ya know, that's not what I said (the word 'subsequent' should have been a dead giveaway), and I did note that -- well, yup, sure enough, per the charts, the rise preceded the nutjobs... but have it your way.
What I'm said, in small words, is that in light of the rise in cases, antivax nutjobs are not helping and are probably contributing to the continued rise (and possibly to the development of new mutations in the future). Without them, by now it might have leveled off; we can't know one way or the other.
We've seen the same situation with parvovirus in dogs, where every time a virus variant comes along and bypasses the vaccine (which has happened several times), the nutjobs point at the incidence spike and say see? vaccine not work! vaccine bad!! and they stop vaccinating. And then we have not just a spike (which would have been limited by the next version of the vaccine) but a minor epidemic.
"You can't simply blame the opponents of vaccination and walk away claiming moral victory."
Of course not -- but as numerous posts point out, microorganisms are relatively subject to mutation, and (lacking mass stupidity) that's likely the first factor when effectiveness goes down. But it's more likely to stay more or less under control when we don't have the subsequent factor of an enlarged vulnerable population.
And as another post points out, the more people are unvaccinated, the more 'field laboratories' exist for the microorganism to 'test' new mutations. Since a given pathogen is not significantly present in effectively-vaccinated people, they don't generally contribute to the "successful mutation" rate. I would expect that a relatively insignificant uptick in the number of unvaccinated people can result in a surge of 'field-tested' successful mutations, which being a new variant, can then also infect the vaccinated.
[I majored in in biochemistry and microbiology, so I'm not entirely out of my field here]
Per that (and you'll have to ask him if you want a better explanation -- I get it in a muddy way, but I'm not a stats dude), the SD numbers may indeed be an immunization rate issue.
That's actually how it was done for dogs, prior to distemper vaccine: puppies would be deliberately exposed, and the survivors (about half, but occasionally none) were considered immune.
I don't have to go to a 3rd world country... when I was a kid, one of the neighbor kids wore leg braces because of polio. When the vaccine came out (1962?), the whole town turned out en masse for the free cube of treated sugar, because back then everyone knew what polio was and what it could do.
Because in higher socialeconomic strata, you get more educated idiots who've been insulated against the Real World by their very status.
When I was a kid in school, first week everyone got a TB test (and were required to have core vaccines including smallpox). There was no skipping it no matter who you were or what you believed.
The reason we vaccinate as early as possible is because very young children are more likely to die if they do get sick. So you want to get SOME immunity as soon as the system can develop it.
We have idiots who don't vaccinate puppies until 4 months as well, because OMG developing immune system. This is all dandy if you can keep them in total isolation. Not so dandy if they're out in the real world. Much safer to do the core vaccinations early (and with newer vaccines, you can hit them at 3 to 5 weeks for prophylaxis in the event of high-risk exposure, or 5 to 6 weeks for a normal first shot). Usually it takes losing a whole litter to parvo at 8 weeks to get the facts thru their heads, and even then some don't change their ways.
Incidentally, you can't half-dose vaccine either (some idiots do that as well) because there's a threshold number of virus particles necessary to induce immunity. High-titer vaccines (with 3 to 5 times the number of virus particles) do a much better job of generating immunity, especially in very young puppies (and when one still needs to overcome maternal antibodies).
There's the same problem with animal vaccines. Frex, while the common-viruses component of canine vaccines reliably lasts about 3.5 years, the lepto component only reliably lasts about 6 months. Yet you could not buy canine lepto vaccine separately until just recently, and it's hideously expensive... if you buy it packaged for dogs. I expect the version packaged for livestock (for the same lepto variants) is functionally identical, at 20 cents vs 5 bucks.
That canine lepto vaccine is available separately at all may derive from the OMG Reactions** crowd making lepto-in-combo vaccine harder to find, so sensible people are resorting to using the virus vaccine plus a separate lepto shot.... so there was demand.
** to my knowledge, not actually seen in any significant way since the 1960s. However, we have had modern lepto epidemics. I expect a lot of the "$popular-scapegoat poisoned my dog" cases where the liver and kidneys failed are actually lepto, which can be vague of symptoms and difficult to diagnose and culture (even from autopsy).
The same "minimal vaccines" claptrap has been going around in the dog and cat breeding communities, like a plague of stupidity. In its wake we have a new rise in parvovirus, and some fullblown lepto epidemics (because OMG lepto vaccine reactions... an issue not actually seen in any significant way since the 1960s). About the only thing that's kept it from being worse than it is, is that the minimally-vaccinated and unvaccinated animals tend to be pampered city animals that (outside of shows) receive minimal exposure.
Slashdot Mirror
'Course, we've only recently had to tools to investigate and identify it...
Also this obsession with "only use enough to do the job" -- er, no. That is what selects for resistance, by killing all the weaker individuals but leaving the strongest alive. If you're going to treat, do so at a level that kills ALL of the target species.
In my application, I'm most interested in killing off parvovirus (a really tough virus, resistant to a lot of common chemicals, but reliably killed by bleach) and coccidia (another toughie but reliably killed by ammonia, which is why we should not be too anal about ammonia levels in livestock applications).
Nope, you're not alone.
http://fear.org/
Yeah, but then the leaves are around its stem or trunk, which is an even less-good place to get a fungal infection. Leaves can be shed; roots and trunks cannot.
Deaves dry up before being shed (as water and nutrients are sucked out of them) and this generally applies to infected leaves as well, at any time of year. (Fall is not typically when fungal infections happen; rather, where spring rains and summer heat overlap.)
Uh, no. It's been a "thing" as long as I can remember, and I started gardening in 1965. Vegetables, not pot.
Camellias (the kind they sell at Home Depot, that make showy flowers) DO die back if they get water on the leaves in sunlight. Why I have no idea, but I lost several that way.
As to the "bed of nails" -- when I was a kid I observed that if I rubbed a finger across the leaf surface, water would stop beading up, and the leaf would get wet. Well, now I know why -- I was crushing these microstructures. And yes, they do "grow back".
Well, in this case that's kinda like asking "How long before humans evolve a mechanism to prevent 'em from bleeding out if someone cuts their throat?" It's basically putting a hole in the bacteria's skin.
This is when I need an anti-microbial to use on surfaces, I use straight undiluted 6% bleach. From what I've read, since it pretty much dissolves microbes, there is no resistance.
Consider how much further it is across the U.S., and how many more miles of roads we have than Japan or any country in Europe... in fact, the U.S. is only slightly smaller than of ALL of Europe combined.
A great deal of that infrastructure use of tax money is wasted, and I saw this over and over when I lived in SoCal -- which is a good deal of why building anything costs so damn much there.
Two instances, both involving state highways I used every day:
#1 (this was about 1985):
This very busy local road was slated to be widened from two lanes to four to accommodate upcoming development. So far so good... but after the new road was completely built (which was a massive undertaking since the old road proved to have a concrete bed three feet thick, which they deemed necessary to remove even tho the new lanes were to be in the same spot) -- a week after the job finished they had to dig it all back up again to lay water and sewer lines for the aforementioned new development, which had been approved BEFORE the original construction started, so it's not like they could claim needing the water/sewer lines came as a surprise. And a couple weeks after that was done, the road was dug up a THIRD time to lay some other utility lines. Pay mind to the fact that both utility projects were already approved and should have been included in the initial road project.
So we the taxpayers paid THREE times (or four if you count that the extra-sturdy original roadbed should have been kept as two of the new lanes) to build ONE finished road. I should perhaps also note that the same contractor got all three road construction jobs. (And the roadbed along there was lumpy ever after, because the repeated dig-back-ups compromised the new structure, possibly suspect to start with.)
#2: from about 2005 and ongoing:
Every year (and sometimes more than once a year) this high-traffic two-lane highway is resurfaced. Except they don't actually resurface it. They just spray it with a thin coat of sealant, insufficient to repair anything, let alone the accelerating webwork of cracks and potholes (along with heavy truck traffic, this area gets a lot of freeze and thaw in winter). Again, this job is done by a contractor, who is of course best served by maximizing both hours and "repeat business". Meanwhile, the highway is starting to fall apart (needlessly so) and they get to wave around how they need more and more money to repair it.
Totally agree... if we stopped funding shit we have no business doing in the first place, instead of a vast debt we'd have tax dollars coming out our ears. (Personally I think the gov't needs to return to being funded solely by tariffs, so its revenues are tied directly to the nation's exportable -- not just consumable -- productivity.)
"And you think average people who's salaries and average wealth has gone down by nearly 30% in the last decade alone should pay even more money because they could not spent anything on Roads and Infrastructure whilst they pissed away your money everywhere else?"
Predictable liberal response: "They should be walking, biking, or taking the bus anyway."
Talk to your local appliance repair dude. I'd found a good one, and when it came time to replace the washer and the fridge, I asked him which brands were good. He said the only ones worth a shit and worth repairing were Whirlpool (available at a sharp discount under the Costco/Kirkland label); everything else was basically disposable crap. He also said on a washer, to get plain old knobs and avoid electronic control panels, which soon corrode from the natural damp of a washing machine's innards and are costly to replace, while knobs last for ages and are cheap to fix.
They might have been navigating them in the same way, too... when I was vetting large numbers of salvage computers, nearly all the RAM was good, but if there was a dead stick -- more often than not it was a Kingston, despite that they were underrepresented in this sampling. Rather at odds with their position and reputation as a premium brand.
I was going to buy a couple flash drives so I read reviews on the target product... and a disturbing number had the same complaint when using a USB3 flash drive on a USB2-equipped computer:
Data corruption.
This wasn't just the usual crowd of knobs who don't know shit about hardware; it was largely reasonably savvy-sounding folks.
Anyone know what the issue might be?
I'd think this is closer to the 5th Amendment, being a taking of property (which it became the moment we decided to grant trademarks in the first place).
My Viking ancestors concur! What are they doing on the field without battleaxes, anyway??
And what about the NO Saints? are they not an insult to historical saints? (Well, most years, anyway...)
The obvious question: have the emails also disappeared off all the *recipient* computers??
Cuz if not, they can be retrieved.
If so, it's a miracle.
It's been pointed out that a great many 'protestors' are professionals, paid to be there, which is why you see the same faces at protest events thousands of miles apart.
I think this is borne out by the fact that when someone conducts an ad hoc interview with random protestors, very rarely does one really know why he's there or what he's protesting... the answer is at best something vague like "for the people". Some become hostile at the mere question.
What's unclear is who is paying them, and if this is so, should such protests be legally "lobbying" rather than "free speech".
Ya know, that's not what I said (the word 'subsequent' should have been a dead giveaway), and I did note that -- well, yup, sure enough, per the charts, the rise preceded the nutjobs... but have it your way.
What I'm said, in small words, is that in light of the rise in cases, antivax nutjobs are not helping and are probably contributing to the continued rise (and possibly to the development of new mutations in the future). Without them, by now it might have leveled off; we can't know one way or the other.
We've seen the same situation with parvovirus in dogs, where every time a virus variant comes along and bypasses the vaccine (which has happened several times), the nutjobs point at the incidence spike and say see? vaccine not work! vaccine bad!! and they stop vaccinating. And then we have not just a spike (which would have been limited by the next version of the vaccine) but a minor epidemic.
"You can't simply blame the opponents of vaccination and walk away claiming moral victory."
Of course not -- but as numerous posts point out, microorganisms are relatively subject to mutation, and (lacking mass stupidity) that's likely the first factor when effectiveness goes down. But it's more likely to stay more or less under control when we don't have the subsequent factor of an enlarged vulnerable population.
And as another post points out, the more people are unvaccinated, the more 'field laboratories' exist for the microorganism to 'test' new mutations. Since a given pathogen is not significantly present in effectively-vaccinated people, they don't generally contribute to the "successful mutation" rate. I would expect that a relatively insignificant uptick in the number of unvaccinated people can result in a surge of 'field-tested' successful mutations, which being a new variant, can then also infect the vaccinated.
[I majored in in biochemistry and microbiology, so I'm not entirely out of my field here]
Look at this post (and the rest of the subthread):
http://science.slashdot.org/co...
Per that (and you'll have to ask him if you want a better explanation -- I get it in a muddy way, but I'm not a stats dude), the SD numbers may indeed be an immunization rate issue.
That's actually how it was done for dogs, prior to distemper vaccine: puppies would be deliberately exposed, and the survivors (about half, but occasionally none) were considered immune.
I don't have to go to a 3rd world country... when I was a kid, one of the neighbor kids wore leg braces because of polio. When the vaccine came out (1962?), the whole town turned out en masse for the free cube of treated sugar, because back then everyone knew what polio was and what it could do.
For the uninitiated...
Here's a polio ward in the U.S. in 1953:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...
Here's a kid with a polio-deformed leg:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...
There aren't any pictures of the dead kids.
Because in higher socialeconomic strata, you get more educated idiots who've been insulated against the Real World by their very status.
When I was a kid in school, first week everyone got a TB test (and were required to have core vaccines including smallpox). There was no skipping it no matter who you were or what you believed.
The reason we vaccinate as early as possible is because very young children are more likely to die if they do get sick. So you want to get SOME immunity as soon as the system can develop it.
We have idiots who don't vaccinate puppies until 4 months as well, because OMG developing immune system. This is all dandy if you can keep them in total isolation. Not so dandy if they're out in the real world. Much safer to do the core vaccinations early (and with newer vaccines, you can hit them at 3 to 5 weeks for prophylaxis in the event of high-risk exposure, or 5 to 6 weeks for a normal first shot). Usually it takes losing a whole litter to parvo at 8 weeks to get the facts thru their heads, and even then some don't change their ways.
Incidentally, you can't half-dose vaccine either (some idiots do that as well) because there's a threshold number of virus particles necessary to induce immunity. High-titer vaccines (with 3 to 5 times the number of virus particles) do a much better job of generating immunity, especially in very young puppies (and when one still needs to overcome maternal antibodies).
There's the same problem with animal vaccines. Frex, while the common-viruses component of canine vaccines reliably lasts about 3.5 years, the lepto component only reliably lasts about 6 months. Yet you could not buy canine lepto vaccine separately until just recently, and it's hideously expensive... if you buy it packaged for dogs. I expect the version packaged for livestock (for the same lepto variants) is functionally identical, at 20 cents vs 5 bucks.
That canine lepto vaccine is available separately at all may derive from the OMG Reactions** crowd making lepto-in-combo vaccine harder to find, so sensible people are resorting to using the virus vaccine plus a separate lepto shot.... so there was demand.
** to my knowledge, not actually seen in any significant way since the 1960s. However, we have had modern lepto epidemics. I expect a lot of the "$popular-scapegoat poisoned my dog" cases where the liver and kidneys failed are actually lepto, which can be vague of symptoms and difficult to diagnose and culture (even from autopsy).
What was the question? :)
The same "minimal vaccines" claptrap has been going around in the dog and cat breeding communities, like a plague of stupidity. In its wake we have a new rise in parvovirus, and some fullblown lepto epidemics (because OMG lepto vaccine reactions... an issue not actually seen in any significant way since the 1960s). About the only thing that's kept it from being worse than it is, is that the minimally-vaccinated and unvaccinated animals tend to be pampered city animals that (outside of shows) receive minimal exposure.