There were about 8 or 9 guys that refused the test. The case involved rape and someone turned him self in before being tested. I think there were about 100 people tested in the town.
If your given a large enough population then you will find someone that will admit to a crime that they didn't do for fear of being unjustly charged and being punished more harshly. This can be common in people that are turly paranoid as well as other situations involving strong group pressure like in the military and frat houses.
A potential problem with current DNA testing is that it isn't comparing DNA but it simply plots the weight of the different chromosomes.
All companies are required to give at least 4 weeks a year for normal workers. There is also a Roster Day Off which is somethign to do with the work week being 36 hrs and not 40 so you get a day per month off. Based on that you have to count on people not being there to cover things.
In my 24x7 role I'm sr sysadmin position. I've got a jr admin to help out and one other programmer as a backup. They know enough to keep things running and they are smart so they can figure stuff out on their own. If something major dies, it will take them a while to get back to normal but thats why we have live spares for things like routers and importaint servers. We are understaffed but we can make do and no one is under any pressure to skip their holidays.
If your feeling stressed, consider downunder. There are lots of good IT jobs here doing cool things but the money does suck. I'm making about 1/3 of what I was getting in the US but here I can afford to goto Tahiti and have time to do it.
Why is it that Americans seem to have one of the higest levels of depression and stress as well as one of the lowest amounts of time off. Are these related?
I'm an American that is working in Australia. I've been working for the company for almost two years and I've got at least 6 weeks of vaction time I can use any time now. Next week I'm off to Tahiti for a week and a 1/2. Some of the nearby islands there have no power, no phone and nothing to do all day but be a bum in the sun.
Wow. Almost 2 weeks with out the phone rinning, the pager going off at 4:00am or bitching email. Sure I won't be able to read/. or watch the war on CNN but thats the way it goes.
The only "win" situation here is that it will force parents to truly consider using abortion a tool to make sure that their offspring have a chance. This is a shortterm "win" from an economic stance.
This system creates a news class system and if your in the lower class, there is no little hope for a normal life compared to the upper class.
One of the reasons the bill is so high is the amount of required paper work is out of hand.
When you get a prescription filled, the standard procedure is you hand them your card with the script and they ask your insurance company for a few amounts. They are 1) how much your told the script will cost, 2) how much you have to pay the pharmacy and 3) how much the insurance company pays the pharmacy. Number 3 isn't always a postitve value and number 1 is always higer than the cash price for the drug.
The real problem is that as we find more ways to extend the life of dying people, the less money we have for other things. Right now science as provided the means were each of us can spend more keeping ourselfs alive that we will ever earn during our lives. Some people insist they have "right" to that "medical" care but there isn't enough money to cover it and there never will.
If as much research money was spent on life extension as getting people hooked on cigarettes your life expectancy would be 200 years by now.
Publishing exploits also expands the knowlege base of how typical exploits work.
15 years ago most programers would not believe that you can write a program that overflows the buffer of a second program causing it to do something uninteded other than dumping core. Now people understand buffer overflows are a real issue but only because of the huge library of exploits.
Funny, I got an ILOVEYOU just a few days ago but
I guess they fixed it by now...
L0phtcrack wasn't the first program to crack lanman packets. It was the first that combined all the known ideas into one package easy enough for a scriptkiddie to use.
I've been tring to verify this "fact" for over a year. The facts are that most places sell region 4/Pal and most places will sell region free players as well.
I think it may be illegal to not offer a region free unit but isn't illegal to offer region coded ones as well.
If anyone has some facts on this I would like to hear it.
>United States dollars work only in the United States. You could say that they're "region coded" too.
Wrong.
US dollars are the offical currency of a growing number of countries. At least two countries in South America (Panama? Guyana?) as well as several Island nations. US Dollars are a main currency of any international deal in North Africa. Reale state deals in Egypt are offten in US dollars.
The goverment bank of New Zealand is currently considering using either a joint Oz/NZ money (which Oz said no way!), Oz money or US money. Claims it will cost the goverment $150 mil a year but will offset much more than that by the continuded dropping of the NZ dollar.
I'm wondering when they will build a hotel there. Remember all those cool places out of Bond movies? Those buildings pushed the technology much more than a building high on Everest would today. I figure sometime someone is going to build a nice hotel on Mt Lhotse and provide a nice path to the peak of Everest. With the number of billion dollar hotels now in existance, its only a matter of time.
I've been using the 2.3 backbatches and they work fine. I've got a Logitech USB trackball, a sony F505 digital camera and the matel electronic magnifing glass all working fine. I did have to make a few changes in a table for the sony camera but it now works fine. There is a bug in the scsi drivers that had to be fixed as well.
I think the whole running out of oil thing is mostly being ignored. We've been hearing that its 20 years out since about 1970 and it hasn't happend yet. The major difference is that in 1970 there were more countries exporting oil. For example Egypt used to be a major exporter and now imports because it uses more than its got. The US and England will be ok for longer than most because of the North Sea. Conoco owns part of a rig in the north atlantic that pumps out more oil in a day than Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas combined in a month. In 1970, those places were major oil producers. Most 3rd world countries are now increasing their oil usage by 5 to 10% per year. Maybe this time the naysayers are right.
This will stop their eroding market share in the name brand server market. That is importaint to their stock holders.
They may simply kill the RAQ now that they have it. They could have the same goals that IBM had when they introduced the PC, it wasn't to have a product to make lots of money but as a tool to move a larger customer base to the big iron.
Now would be a very good time for someone to start selling a product that competes in the RAQ area.
I had an open relay that got about 100 spam messages before it was closed. 8 of them were accepted by other machines, the reset were rejected.
This may work becuase CNN is talking about it and it will close down the congressional email system which will get talked about. Once you get one congress critter saying to his pal "I got 20,000 messages today" and his pal says "I got 30,000", then its all a trip into ego land where it will not be ignored.
MD5 the "credit card" details of a real transaction (which isn't close to what you proposed) and I can crack it. If its a transaction like the ones I typicaly see, I can crack it in under a day. Given enough inside info, I have done this in the past in a few hours.
You see, I didn't say I can reverse MD5. What I said was that if you can guess the contents of a packet that has a signature, you don't need to decrypt it. But your too thick to see that part of the arument and want to push the arument that brute forcing is hard. Read the damn papers, even the EFFs box didn't brute force since it has ways of throwing out bad keys.
Goto a library and get the last annuaual report for Cray Computers. Their stroy is there in black and white but I would expect someone that is a crypo expert to know what has happened in their field but you seem to be stuck just looking at what has happened in the wonderful world of education institutions. There are a lot of people who have been doing a large amount of crypto work that don't publish every result. Try the US air force, NSA, AT&T, McDonald Douglass are just some of the ones I know about.
Moore's Law -- Logic density doubles every N years where N is currently about 1.5 but used to be 1.
It does not imply that computer speeds (measured as getting work done) is limited to the same factor. What is the yearly increase in 3d texture processing speed? The chips still follow Moores law but there is far more than 2x gain/18 months.
If Moors law applied for performance, your desktop box would be about as useful as a calculator.
Now go look at EFF's box. It was designed in 1997 using standard cell custom chips. Their parts run at 40mhz . They are only doing 24 DES engines per chip and they aren't piplined and take 16 clocks per DES. It looks like they used standard DES cells to put it together. Just cracking does not require such features as CBC modes. The design isn't the best if all you want to do is crack one DES block. It was designed to do other kinds of searches as well. Take that design and optimise it so that its completely piplined and uses shared key counters. Keep adding cells till you can't fit anymore gates and and see how fast it goes. Just with these simple extras your going to get a better increase than Moores law.
As far as the large primes go, Rmember Cray Computer company (not Cray Reaserch)? They were building two computers for the NSA when they went folded. One of them was a 16,384 bit machine and the other was a 65535 bit machine. They were built to do prime number research. They were paid for and the order was cancled after the machines were mostly complete. To me that says the NSA didn't need to do any more big prime number research since it would have not cost them any more money to have the machines completed. I have a strong feeling they know something about big primes that hasn't hit the litature. I also know that some even numbers will pass many of the "prime" test used by many popular key generation programs.
Sounds like fun. The hard part is when you add extra data that isn't needed for the CC transaction. Here in the land downunder, expire dates aren't required by at least 3 banks so they are routinely not used. The name isn't used on all transactions so that only leaves a credit card number which are typicaly 6 digit bin+9 digit account+1 mod10. If know for example which bank your likly to have (and if your likly to have a gold card), that reduces the BIN (1st 6 digits) search range to a few hundred. Figure out the last 3 digits (which your number modification will break), and that leaves a small million things to try. If you assume that all the typical reciept data is all known text it becomes a trival game which was what I was talking about with bad crypto. Your challange makes this harder than the problem I had.
I propose you generate a sample so that others can play with the concept and pre test their setups.
To anyone else that wants to play, here is an inner loop of the program (mentioned in the first post). It takes 63 user seconds on the slowest box I had handy.
while(count++<9999999 ) {
int sum;
MD5_Init(&c);
//sprintf(buf,"411111%07chk", count+0000000);
// cc1 is the bin, calc cc2 so mod10 works
sprintf(buf,"%s%07d%s",cc1,count,cc2);
len=strlen(buf);
MD5_Update(&c,buf,len);
MD5_Final(&(md[0]),&c);
//if(strcmp("7ebf77977b585cb41c15606b92bfe123",pt1 (md)) {
////printf("%s %06d %s\t",cc1,count,cc2),print_md5(md);
//}
for (sum=i=0; i<MD5_DIGEST_LENGTH; i++)
if(md[i] == md5cc[i])
sum++;
if(sum==MD5_DIGEST_LENGTH) {
printf("%s %07d %s\t",cc1,count,cc2),print_md5(md);
exit(0);
}
}
It can be made much faster by MD5_Update only on the bits that change but keep in mind it does things by blocks. Removing the libc calls would help reduce it a bit too.
Your info assumes tring all keys which is a complete waste of time.
While 3des uses a 112 bit key, you can reduce that to about 78 bits by completely unfolding the system. There are large numbers of ways to reduce the keysearch space of des which is much easier than reducing the brute force time by 300 trillion times.
As far as computing hardware, Considering a modern off the shelf programable gate array should be able to do about a billion key searches a second. Thats increasing at a rate of about 8x a year.
Your right about pseudoprimes. Too bad the crypto only works with one to one keys if the numbers are prime, probably prime isn't close enough.
I had a conversation with a bank recently about them thinking about switching to 3des from des. I pulled out the Applied Crypto book, found the table of how fast things can be cracked, fixed up the historical data (it is an Old book), added a few factors that I've heard about and a projected when 3des should be able to be broken in real time. Its about 10 years away.
How about some of 1024 bit public key crypto? Ever wonder why most of this stuff puts the message digest on the outside of they crypto payload? Its so you don't have to decrypt the data, if you can guess at the contents and can do the md fast, you don't ever even need to brute force they key. Its amzaing how much crypto does this. Also most of it is based on finding good primes. The keys you have are not good primes. If you look at RSA public key stuff you will find that if you have 2 primes as the keys you have a one to one mapping of the encode to decode keys. If one of thouse keys has two factors you will find that you 4 decode keys. 3 facotrs and you have 9 keys since the number seems to square. One bad pseudoprime and your rsa key could have thousands of decoding keys. Considering the NSA gave up buying machines that do big primes fast in about 1994, I'm assuming that the've found out something very interesting about factoring large psuedoprimes.
Recently someone gave me a sample of a bunch of credit card numebrs that were safe since they md5ed them. A bit of code, a few computers and I was generating the card numbers within seconds. 5 minutes later the entire database was converted to plain text.
This is true and this is why the NSA is exempt from most of the checks in the system. People outside of the US (The targets of the NSA), don't have anyone on their side and the congressman from some small districat won't get worked up about something the NSA does because it won't effect his district.
This is why congress has almost never had a problem with the NSA but has had issues with the ones that work in the US (by their charter) like FBI, CIA, BATF.
NBC has agreed to pay $4 billion for exclusive coverage till 2008. Too bad their current ratings don't justify that expense. Face it, afternoon talk shows are getting higher ratings than the Olympics and they didn't cost billions of dollars.
The advertises know they aren't getting their moneys worth. I bet thigns are much different next time. I wonder if they will convince Seoul to run games at midnight so they run the games live.
Wasn't ICSA the the jokers that were calling themselves NCSA (Natl Computer Securiyt A???) when everone used Mosaic just to so people would think they were related to the supercomputer people (aka the real NCSA).
And now a new breed of jokers want to sell me their firewalls that are security cerified by people that willfuly lied about their credentials. Thats a great markting plus for a security product.
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There were about 8 or 9 guys that refused the test. The case involved rape and someone turned him self in before being tested. I think there were about 100 people tested in the town.
If your given a large enough population then you will find someone that will admit to a crime that they didn't do for fear of being unjustly charged and being punished more harshly. This can be common in people that are turly paranoid as well as other situations involving strong group pressure like in the military and frat houses.
A potential problem with current DNA testing is that it isn't comparing DNA but it simply plots the weight of the different chromosomes.
All companies are required to give at least 4 weeks a year for normal workers. There is also a Roster Day Off which is somethign to do with the work week being 36 hrs and not 40 so you get a day per month off. Based on that you have to count on people not being there to cover things.
In my 24x7 role I'm sr sysadmin position. I've got a jr admin to help out and one other programmer as a backup. They know enough to keep things running and they are smart so they can figure stuff out on their own. If something major dies, it will take them a while to get back to normal but thats why we have live spares for things like routers and importaint servers. We are understaffed but we can make do and no one is under any pressure to skip their holidays.
If your feeling stressed, consider downunder. There are lots of good IT jobs here doing cool things but the money does suck. I'm making about 1/3 of what I was getting in the US but here I can afford to goto Tahiti and have time to do it.
Why is it that Americans seem to have one of the higest levels of depression and stress as well as one of the lowest amounts of time off. Are these related?
/. or watch the war on CNN but thats the way it goes.
I'm an American that is working in Australia. I've been working for the company for almost two years and I've got at least 6 weeks of vaction time I can use any time now. Next week I'm off to Tahiti for a week and a 1/2. Some of the nearby islands there have no power, no phone and nothing to do all day but be a bum in the sun.
Wow. Almost 2 weeks with out the phone rinning, the pager going off at 4:00am or bitching email. Sure I won't be able to read
The only "win" situation here is that it will force parents to truly consider using abortion a tool to make sure that their offspring have a chance. This is a shortterm "win" from an economic stance.
This system creates a news class system and if your in the lower class, there is no little hope for a normal life compared to the upper class.
One of the reasons the bill is so high is the amount of required paper work is out of hand.
When you get a prescription filled, the standard procedure is you hand them your card with the script and they ask your insurance company for a few amounts. They are 1) how much your told the script will cost, 2) how much you have to pay the pharmacy and 3) how much the insurance company pays the pharmacy. Number 3 isn't always a postitve value and number 1 is always higer than the cash price for the drug.
The real problem is that as we find more ways to extend the life of dying people, the less money we have for other things. Right now science as provided the means were each of us can spend more keeping ourselfs alive that we will ever earn during our lives. Some people insist they have "right" to that "medical" care but there isn't enough money to cover it and there never will.
If as much research money was spent on life extension as getting people hooked on cigarettes your life expectancy would be 200 years by now.
Publishing exploits also expands the knowlege base of how typical exploits work.
15 years ago most programers would not believe that you can write a program that overflows the buffer of a second program causing it to do something uninteded other than dumping core. Now people understand buffer overflows are a real issue but only because of the huge library of exploits.
Funny, I got an ILOVEYOU just a few days ago but
I guess they fixed it by now...
L0phtcrack wasn't the first program to crack lanman packets. It was the first that combined all the known ideas into one package easy enough for a scriptkiddie to use.
I've been tring to verify this "fact" for over a year. The facts are that most places sell region 4/Pal and most places will sell region free players as well.
I think it may be illegal to not offer a region free unit but isn't illegal to offer region coded ones as well.
If anyone has some facts on this I would like to hear it.
>United States dollars work only in the United States. You could say that they're "region coded" too.
Wrong.
US dollars are the offical currency of a growing number of countries. At least two countries in South America (Panama? Guyana?) as well as several Island nations. US Dollars are a main currency of any international deal in North Africa. Reale state deals in Egypt are offten in US dollars.
The goverment bank of New Zealand is currently considering using either a joint Oz/NZ money (which Oz said no way!), Oz money or US money. Claims it will cost the goverment $150 mil a year but will offset much more than that by the continuded dropping of the NZ dollar.
Current rates are somewhere more than US$50,000.
I'm wondering when they will build a hotel there. Remember all those cool places out of Bond movies? Those buildings pushed the technology much more than a building high on Everest would today. I figure sometime someone is going to build a nice hotel on Mt Lhotse and provide a nice path to the peak of Everest. With the number of billion dollar hotels now in existance, its only a matter of time.
I've been using the 2.3 backbatches and they work fine. I've got a Logitech USB trackball, a sony F505 digital camera and the matel electronic magnifing glass all working fine. I did have to make a few changes in a table for the sony camera but it now works fine. There is a bug in the scsi drivers that had to be fixed as well.
Why would I go to a computer show where I can't find out the lattest wonderful products from M$?
Now if they had invited Bill Gates to speak, now that would be worth seeing.
There is also going to be the "Geek Night Out" on Oct 20th.
I think the whole running out of oil thing is mostly being ignored. We've been hearing that its 20 years out since about 1970 and it hasn't happend yet. The major difference is that in 1970 there were more countries exporting oil. For example Egypt used to be a major exporter and now imports because it uses more than its got. The US and England will be ok for longer than most because of the North Sea. Conoco owns part of a rig in the north atlantic that pumps out more oil in a day than Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas combined in a month. In 1970, those places were major oil producers. Most 3rd world countries are now increasing their oil usage by 5 to 10% per year. Maybe this time the naysayers are right.
This will stop their eroding market share in the name brand server market. That is importaint to their stock holders.
They may simply kill the RAQ now that they have it. They could have the same goals that IBM had when they introduced the PC, it wasn't to have a product to make lots of money but as a tool to move a larger customer base to the big iron.
Now would be a very good time for someone to start selling a product that competes in the RAQ area.
I had an open relay that got about 100 spam messages before it was closed. 8 of them were accepted by other machines, the reset were rejected.
This may work becuase CNN is talking about it and it will close down the congressional email system which will get talked about. Once you get one congress critter saying to his pal "I got 20,000 messages today" and his pal says "I got 30,000", then its all a trip into ego land where it will not be ignored.
MD5 the "credit card" details of a real transaction (which isn't close to what you proposed) and I can crack it. If its a transaction like the ones I typicaly see, I can crack it in under a day. Given enough inside info, I have done this in the past in a few hours.
You see, I didn't say I can reverse MD5. What I said was that if you can guess the contents of a packet that has a signature, you don't need to decrypt it. But your too thick to see that part of the arument and want to push the arument that brute forcing is hard. Read the damn papers, even the EFFs box didn't brute force since it has ways of throwing out bad keys.
Goto a library and get the last annuaual report for Cray Computers. Their stroy is there in black and white but I would expect someone that is a crypo expert to know what has happened in their field but you seem to be stuck just looking at what has happened in the wonderful world of education institutions. There are a lot of people who have been doing a large amount of crypto work that don't publish every result. Try the US air force, NSA, AT&T, McDonald Douglass are just some of the ones I know about.
Moore's Law -- Logic density doubles every N years where N is currently about 1.5 but used to be 1.
It does not imply that computer speeds (measured as getting work done) is limited to the same factor. What is the yearly increase in 3d texture processing speed? The chips still follow Moores law but there is far more than 2x gain/18 months.
If Moors law applied for performance, your desktop box would be about as useful as a calculator.
Now go look at EFF's box. It was designed in 1997 using standard cell custom chips. Their parts run at 40mhz . They are only doing 24 DES engines per chip and they aren't piplined and take 16 clocks per DES. It looks like they used standard DES cells to put it together. Just cracking does not require such features as CBC modes. The design isn't the best if all you want to do is crack one DES block. It was designed to do other kinds of searches as well. Take that design and optimise it so that its completely piplined and uses shared key counters. Keep adding cells till you can't fit anymore gates and and see how fast it goes. Just with these simple extras your going to get a better increase than Moores law.
As far as the large primes go, Rmember Cray Computer company (not Cray Reaserch)? They were building two computers for the NSA when they went folded. One of them was a 16,384 bit machine and the other was a 65535 bit machine. They were built to do prime number research. They were paid for and the order was cancled after the machines were mostly complete. To me that says the NSA didn't need to do any more big prime number research since it would have not cost them any more money to have the machines completed. I have a strong feeling they know something about big primes that hasn't hit the litature. I also know that some even numbers will pass many of the "prime" test used by many popular key generation programs.
Sounds like fun. The hard part is when you add extra data that isn't needed for the CC transaction. Here in the land downunder, expire dates aren't required by at least 3 banks so they are routinely not used. The name isn't used on all transactions so that only leaves a credit card number which are typicaly 6 digit bin+9 digit account+1 mod10. If know for example which bank your likly to have (and if your likly to have a gold card), that reduces the BIN (1st 6 digits) search range to a few hundred. Figure out the last 3 digits (which your number modification will break), and that leaves a small million things to try. If you assume that all the typical reciept data is all known text it becomes a trival game which was what I was talking about with bad crypto. Your challange makes this harder than the problem I had.
//sprintf(buf,"411111%07chk", count+0000000);
// cc1 is the bin, calc cc2 so mod10 works
//if(strcmp("7ebf77977b585cb41c15606b92bfe123",pt1 (md)) {
////printf("%s %06d %s\t",cc1,count,cc2),print_md5(md);
//}
I propose you generate a sample so that others can play with the concept and pre test their setups.
To anyone else that wants to play, here is an inner loop of the program (mentioned in the first post). It takes 63 user seconds on the slowest box I had handy.
while(count++<9999999 ) {
int sum;
MD5_Init(&c);
sprintf(buf,"%s%07d%s",cc1,count,cc2);
len=strlen(buf);
MD5_Update(&c,buf,len);
MD5_Final(&(md[0]),&c);
for (sum=i=0; i<MD5_DIGEST_LENGTH; i++)
if(md[i] == md5cc[i])
sum++;
if(sum==MD5_DIGEST_LENGTH) {
printf("%s %07d %s\t",cc1,count,cc2),print_md5(md);
exit(0);
}
}
It can be made much faster by MD5_Update only on the bits that change but keep in mind it does things by blocks. Removing the libc calls would help reduce it a bit too.
Your info assumes tring all keys which is a complete waste of time.
While 3des uses a 112 bit key, you can reduce that to about 78 bits by completely unfolding the system. There are large numbers of ways to reduce the keysearch space of des which is much easier than reducing the brute force time by 300 trillion times.
As far as computing hardware, Considering a modern off the shelf programable gate array should be able to do about a billion key searches a second. Thats increasing at a rate of about 8x a year.
Your right about pseudoprimes. Too bad the crypto only works with one to one keys if the numbers are prime, probably prime isn't close enough.
I had a conversation with a bank recently about them thinking about switching to 3des from des. I pulled out the Applied Crypto book, found the table of how fast things can be cracked, fixed up the historical data (it is an Old book), added a few factors that I've heard about and a projected when 3des should be able to be broken in real time. Its about 10 years away.
How about some of 1024 bit public key crypto? Ever wonder why most of this stuff puts the message digest on the outside of they crypto payload? Its so you don't have to decrypt the data, if you can guess at the contents and can do the md fast, you don't ever even need to brute force they key. Its amzaing how much crypto does this. Also most of it is based on finding good primes. The keys you have are not good primes. If you look at RSA public key stuff you will find that if you have 2 primes as the keys you have a one to one mapping of the encode to decode keys. If one of thouse keys has two factors you will find that you 4 decode keys. 3 facotrs and you have 9 keys since the number seems to square. One bad pseudoprime and your rsa key could have thousands of decoding keys. Considering the NSA gave up buying machines that do big primes fast in about 1994, I'm assuming that the've found out something very interesting about factoring large psuedoprimes.
Recently someone gave me a sample of a bunch of credit card numebrs that were safe since they md5ed them. A bit of code, a few computers and I was generating the card numbers within seconds. 5 minutes later the entire database was converted to plain text.
> Congresscritters are very territorial.
This is true and this is why the NSA is exempt from most of the checks in the system. People outside of the US (The targets of the NSA), don't have anyone on their side and the congressman from some small districat won't get worked up about something the NSA does because it won't effect his district.
This is why congress has almost never had a problem with the NSA but has had issues with the ones that work in the US (by their charter) like FBI, CIA, BATF.
So how many points is it worth to predict F*ckcompany.com will get sued by a loser company?
NBC has agreed to pay $4 billion for exclusive coverage till 2008. Too bad their current ratings don't justify that expense. Face it, afternoon talk shows are getting higher ratings than the Olympics and they didn't cost billions of dollars.
The advertises know they aren't getting their moneys worth. I bet thigns are much different next time. I wonder if they will convince Seoul to run games at midnight so they run the games live.
Wasn't ICSA the the jokers that were calling themselves NCSA (Natl Computer Securiyt A???) when everone used Mosaic just to so people would think they were related to the supercomputer people (aka the real NCSA).
And now a new breed of jokers want to sell me their firewalls that are security cerified by people that willfuly lied about their credentials. Thats a great markting plus for a security product.