yes, a peaceful protest is hard to pull off. but when you do, you impress society, public opinion, and the government. and then real justice happens. if someone riots, anyone, the message is muddied. and society and public opinion is unimpressed and disgusted, then government is unmoved
so a PEACEFUL protest, however it is achieved, is of the utmost importance
so you doubt that hooligans frequently piggy back and parasitize peaceful protests, ruining them?
you can't tell the difference between the guy chanting and holding a placard and the guy throwing a rock through the storefront window to walk off with jewelry? what cause is he protesting? what injustice is he correcting? what wrong is he righting?
a protest is what started in tottenham: peaceful demonstrations in front of the police station
then hooligans, from outside the neighborhood, came in to turn it into a riot
and no, i'm sorry "one mans riot is another's protest" is a stinking pile of steaming bullshit
people marching down the street is in no way the same thing as hooligan assholes throwing rocks through windows and walking off with loot
in fact, protests around the world and throughout history, protests that in a different universe would move society and government to change policy for the better, have been ruined by hooligan assholes hijacking peaceful protests and using them as an excuse to commit simple crimes. this in turn causes society, public opinion and government to turn from the protesters and their just demands in disgust, through no fault of the protesters
so no: to confuse criminal rioting with genuine protesting is disgusting
if RIM were asked to track down users engaged in a peaceful protest, this is a negative commentary on RIM for colluding with a vile regime, and it would paint the british government as a vile regime
but if RIM were asked to track down out-of-town hooligans intent on turning a peaceful protest into a riot of window breaking and looting (which seems to be the case here), then this is a noncommentary on simple law enforcement, which is justifiable by any government of any free society, and it is expected that companies like RIM would help out
you're right, we don't live in a culture with sever and distinct class divisions
but give the right some time. they are working creating a vast poor underbelly and chipping away at the middle class. all in the name of some rich asshole who doesn't want to pay a higher tax rate, to help the country that made him rich
well, not only was it plainly obvious a few decades ago, it was also a worse contrast in poverty between the whites and minorities. because as you go back further in time, more white people were openly racist like you, and openly supported policies that excluded people from economic equality based on the color of their skin
you might have noticed the last time anyone thought like you were in the majority was world war ii, where the germans, with their open racist policies, and the japanese, with their open racist policies, were soundly defeated
welcome to 1946: the message for you is: racist ideology was defeated, over 65 years ago
you know, you are probably an intelligent person in the traditional iq sense, but you are also obviously socially autistic, socially low iq
the history of the world is not written by the autistic savants like you playing with beakers in the store room. it is written by the socially high iq: the demagogues and pedagogues, those who can move large masses of people with a word. THAT'S the intelligence that really matters in this world
the intelligence that moves atoms is impressive. the intelligence that moves people is more, and always will be, because the guy manipulating atoms with his mind doesn't have the time or inclination or skill to be manipulating people, where the real power lies
so, i'm sorry for your pathetic thoughts loser
and i'm also sorry that you're pretty much at the front of the line for your own policies, you stupid asperger's asshole
the fact is that what you see is because of class. the lie is that it is because of race
proof: you can see the same phenomenon in any other city in the world. and it's always the poor people doing this. the constant is poverty, not race
of course, race and class often overlap. mainly because of the prejudiced policies of racists, and the historical lingering effects of the overt racist policies of the grandfathers of the racists
people on the right push social policies that mean a larger underclass of poor people. and when they see the inevitable effects of their policies, they, amazingly, see race as the cause
if i recall correctly, african americans were brought here as slaves, and have been excluded from fair economic participation, on a horrible scale, just up to 50 years ago, not to mention lingering prejudice, like yours. and i think you want to deny that history leaves lasting effects
you want to see race as the cause, when history, economics and class are clearly the cause. if you were intelligent, you would see this
it is always the dumbest losers who are racists. so, in one regard, i kind of agree with racist eugenics principles: improve the gene pool, but not by killing people based on skin color or religion, but instead kill people based on their support for racist policies. because there is no better way to identify a low iq person than to hear someone say something racist
in other words: if you kill all the racists, in any society in the world, the iq of society jumps massively
so what do you think about that modest proposal to improve the gene pool, scumbag?
the same problems you complain about happen in poor areas outside moscow too. there, right wing russian douchebags who think like yourself, also say it is a problem with minorities from the caucasus, etc
but there, as here, the people doing the complaining are the same people pushing policies that create large poor underclasses. that then do what the poor since the dawn of time have always done: lash out against the unfairness of their lot in life
and then the right wing, in any country, instead of seeing the obvious class results of their lame policies, sees race problems instead
the overseas places you are talking about are rich places. there are also rich places you can walk around at 3 am in the usa
go to the favelas in rio, the slums outside mumbai or manila or cairo or nairobi, and you tell me again criminals running roughshod over your rights is some sort of american phenomenon
the same things happen in other parts to the world, and it's not black kids doing it, it's poor kids doing it
the POVERTY is the issue, not the race
it's just revealing to me to see the right constantly falling into race based thinking, rather than class based thinking
it reveals the right doesn't understand the problems you create when you push social policies that create a large poor under class, rather than policies that support the growth of the middle class
the right pushes policies that makes people poor, and then they see poor people doing things because of their lame policies
and yet, they don't think "poor kids did this and that", they think "black kids did this and that"
and i don't deny any of it. latvia just has to play that game even better. one thing they don't tell you about the evils of capitalism: nobody stays on top forever, there's always someone rising and someone falling
i can't argue with you, as you know the subject far better than i
however i would simply add the example of finland: latvia can build a strong economy. if finland can, why not latvia?
i think you blame the economic conditions on some events that were contemporaneous, but not causative. although yes, there will be an extended social and economic hangover after emerging from the imperialist shell of ussr/ old russia. but it's like growth pangs, and being stuck between two very different social statuses, and still having a long way to go
latvia should do its best to emulate finland, and become the home of the next nokia/ angry birds software publisher (rovio?)
the future is bright. latvia is a gem of a country, nice towns and cities. people will live there gladly IF they can work there
so latvia should do its best to steal software development companies from your nordic neighbors;-)
you just need a good economic policy, and latvia will be like ireland pre2008 real estate burst
i am attacking you for only dealing from the position of your absolute idealism, rather than from the position of relative realism
i know tons of people like you. all very loud, very dumb, and utterly without consequence, because the ivory tower from which you cast your judgments is not a viable or respectable perspective
this an argument i hear a lot: "freedom better than despotism, but despotism better than chaos"
however, much of chaos is just different ethnic groups wanting their own countries, in old world countries which are old empires fraying at the edges
so my response to you is: perhaps the old empire should crumble in the name of freedom, rather than a strong man keeping the old empire together in the name of stability, no?
the stability of the empire is an excuse used by the strongman. chechen bombers don't bomb moscow subways if moscow lets chechnya leave. but the strongman will use the bombings as an excuse to crackdown on all of russia, not just chechnya
so i'm sorry: "freedom better than despotism, but despotism better than chaos"
i don't buy the argument, it's a lie put forth by strongman, that you unfortunately believe, to your detriment
all you are saying is that because free countries are not 100% perfectly free, they are the same as countries who deny you your freedoms
this is an incredibly moronic way to view the world and the concept of freedom
look: you will never be 100% free, in any society made of human beings, ever. accept that
and so because you are at 99%, 95%, or 90% freedom on society A, does not in any way mean your society is the same as society B, that is 20% or 10% or 5% free on the scale of political expression
your'e one of those people who can't understand concepts except in terms of idealistic ways. and if you can find some way to nitpick how your realty is not 100% like your idealistic view, it's the same as nothing at all
you're an idiot, you really are. and the shame is, there's a lot of gasbags out there like you who complain from the same stupid premise of reality not matching your idealism. IT NEVER WILL
learn to criticize and think about your world from relative positions, not from the absolute position in your mind that will never exist. it means your thoughts and criticisms are useless
A country mouse invited his cousin who lived in the city to come visit him. The city mouse was so disappointed with the sparse meal which was nothing more than a few kernels of corn and a couple of dried berries.
"My poor cousin," said the city mouse, "you hardly have anything to eat! I do believe that an ant could eat better! Please do come to the city and visit me, and I will show you such rich feasts, readily available for the taking."
So the country mouse left with his city cousin who brought him to a splendid feast in the city's alley. The country mouse could not believe his eyes. He had never seen so much food in one place. There was bread, cheese, fruit, cereals, and grains of all sorts scattered about in a warm cozy portion of the alley.
The two mice settled down to eat their wonderful dinner, but before they barely took their first bites, a cat approached their dining area. The two mice scampered away and hid in a small uncomfortable hole until the cat left. Finally, it was quiet, and the unwelcome visitor went to prowl somewhere else. The two mice ventured out of the hole and resumed their abundant feast. Before they could get a proper taste in their mouth, another visitor intruded on their dinner, and the two little mice had to scuttle away quickly.
"Goodbye," said the country mouse, "You do, indeed, live in a plentiful city, but I am going home where I can enjoy my dinner in peace."
i am not talking free as in the teenage idiotic definition of freedom: freedom from responsibility
i am talking free as in the adult intelligent definition of freedom: an open participant in the formation of your government and the right to speak whatever is on your mind and criticize anything and anyone you want without fear of official repercussions
Slashdot Mirror
absolutely, they will destroy a peaceful protest
so between such agents and the hooligans, peaceful protests fight a difficult path to change society and public opinion
i believe the protesters in tahrir square manned checkpoints and didn't allow any weapons or any suspected undercover cops into the protests
this job is part of making a successful protest. and it look like the protesters in tahrir square succeeded
yes, a peaceful protest is hard to pull off. but when you do, you impress society, public opinion, and the government. and then real justice happens. if someone riots, anyone, the message is muddied. and society and public opinion is unimpressed and disgusted, then government is unmoved
so a PEACEFUL protest, however it is achieved, is of the utmost importance
so you doubt that hooligans frequently piggy back and parasitize peaceful protests, ruining them?
you can't tell the difference between the guy chanting and holding a placard and the guy throwing a rock through the storefront window to walk off with jewelry? what cause is he protesting? what injustice is he correcting? what wrong is he righting?
he's a criminal, and he is ruining the protest
it's a clear line, there is no confusing the two
it seems that scotland yard has been contracting that sort of murky work out to murdoch's scumbags lately
a protest is what started in tottenham: peaceful demonstrations in front of the police station
then hooligans, from outside the neighborhood, came in to turn it into a riot
and no, i'm sorry "one mans riot is another's protest" is a stinking pile of steaming bullshit
people marching down the street is in no way the same thing as hooligan assholes throwing rocks through windows and walking off with loot
in fact, protests around the world and throughout history, protests that in a different universe would move society and government to change policy for the better, have been ruined by hooligan assholes hijacking peaceful protests and using them as an excuse to commit simple crimes. this in turn causes society, public opinion and government to turn from the protesters and their just demands in disgust, through no fault of the protesters
so no: to confuse criminal rioting with genuine protesting is disgusting
if RIM were asked to track down users engaged in a peaceful protest, this is a negative commentary on RIM for colluding with a vile regime, and it would paint the british government as a vile regime
but if RIM were asked to track down out-of-town hooligans intent on turning a peaceful protest into a riot of window breaking and looting (which seems to be the case here), then this is a noncommentary on simple law enforcement, which is justifiable by any government of any free society, and it is expected that companies like RIM would help out
you're right, we don't live in a culture with sever and distinct class divisions
but give the right some time. they are working creating a vast poor underbelly and chipping away at the middle class. all in the name of some rich asshole who doesn't want to pay a higher tax rate, to help the country that made him rich
that's right
the right wants no welfare, no schools for the poor, no healthcare for the poor, and a giant prison population
this of course will solve the problem of poverty
pffffffffft
well, not only was it plainly obvious a few decades ago, it was also a worse contrast in poverty between the whites and minorities. because as you go back further in time, more white people were openly racist like you, and openly supported policies that excluded people from economic equality based on the color of their skin
you might have noticed the last time anyone thought like you were in the majority was world war ii, where the germans, with their open racist policies, and the japanese, with their open racist policies, were soundly defeated
welcome to 1946: the message for you is: racist ideology was defeated, over 65 years ago
do try to play catch up, dimwit
can i ask you a question please?
if we have eugenics to save the world from the low iq, can you volunteer to be at the front of the line?
because your death will make the average iq jump a lot
k thx!
oh what programming is that? behave morally and decently to your fellow human beings?
then you quote Nietzsche! LOL. classic
i got you pegged
you know, you are probably an intelligent person in the traditional iq sense, but you are also obviously socially autistic, socially low iq
the history of the world is not written by the autistic savants like you playing with beakers in the store room. it is written by the socially high iq: the demagogues and pedagogues, those who can move large masses of people with a word. THAT'S the intelligence that really matters in this world
the intelligence that moves atoms is impressive. the intelligence that moves people is more, and always will be, because the guy manipulating atoms with his mind doesn't have the time or inclination or skill to be manipulating people, where the real power lies
so, i'm sorry for your pathetic thoughts loser
and i'm also sorry that you're pretty much at the front of the line for your own policies, you stupid asperger's asshole
well, we have real nazis commenting in this thread so sure, why not grammar nazis?
the fact is that what you see is because of class. the lie is that it is because of race
proof: you can see the same phenomenon in any other city in the world. and it's always the poor people doing this. the constant is poverty, not race
of course, race and class often overlap. mainly because of the prejudiced policies of racists, and the historical lingering effects of the overt racist policies of the grandfathers of the racists
people on the right push social policies that mean a larger underclass of poor people. and when they see the inevitable effects of their policies, they, amazingly, see race as the cause
typical, and stupid
if i recall correctly, african americans were brought here as slaves, and have been excluded from fair economic participation, on a horrible scale, just up to 50 years ago, not to mention lingering prejudice, like yours. and i think you want to deny that history leaves lasting effects
you want to see race as the cause, when history, economics and class are clearly the cause. if you were intelligent, you would see this
it is always the dumbest losers who are racists. so, in one regard, i kind of agree with racist eugenics principles: improve the gene pool, but not by killing people based on skin color or religion, but instead kill people based on their support for racist policies. because there is no better way to identify a low iq person than to hear someone say something racist
in other words: if you kill all the racists, in any society in the world, the iq of society jumps massively
so what do you think about that modest proposal to improve the gene pool, scumbag?
(snicker)
it's a class problem
the same problems you complain about happen in poor areas outside moscow too. there, right wing russian douchebags who think like yourself, also say it is a problem with minorities from the caucasus, etc
but there, as here, the people doing the complaining are the same people pushing policies that create large poor underclasses. that then do what the poor since the dawn of time have always done: lash out against the unfairness of their lot in life
and then the right wing, in any country, instead of seeing the obvious class results of their lame policies, sees race problems instead
typical
it's a problem with poverty
the overseas places you are talking about are rich places. there are also rich places you can walk around at 3 am in the usa
go to the favelas in rio, the slums outside mumbai or manila or cairo or nairobi, and you tell me again criminals running roughshod over your rights is some sort of american phenomenon
ridiculous
the same things happen in other parts to the world, and it's not black kids doing it, it's poor kids doing it
the POVERTY is the issue, not the race
it's just revealing to me to see the right constantly falling into race based thinking, rather than class based thinking
it reveals the right doesn't understand the problems you create when you push social policies that create a large poor under class, rather than policies that support the growth of the middle class
the right pushes policies that makes people poor, and then they see poor people doing things because of their lame policies
and yet, they don't think "poor kids did this and that", they think "black kids did this and that"
very revealing
and i don't deny any of it. latvia just has to play that game even better. one thing they don't tell you about the evils of capitalism: nobody stays on top forever, there's always someone rising and someone falling
well said
i can't argue with you, as you know the subject far better than i
however i would simply add the example of finland: latvia can build a strong economy. if finland can, why not latvia?
i think you blame the economic conditions on some events that were contemporaneous, but not causative. although yes, there will be an extended social and economic hangover after emerging from the imperialist shell of ussr/ old russia. but it's like growth pangs, and being stuck between two very different social statuses, and still having a long way to go
latvia should do its best to emulate finland, and become the home of the next nokia/ angry birds software publisher (rovio?)
the future is bright. latvia is a gem of a country, nice towns and cities. people will live there gladly IF they can work there
so latvia should do its best to steal software development companies from your nordic neighbors ;-)
you just need a good economic policy, and latvia will be like ireland pre2008 real estate burst
i am attacking you for only dealing from the position of your absolute idealism, rather than from the position of relative realism
i know tons of people like you. all very loud, very dumb, and utterly without consequence, because the ivory tower from which you cast your judgments is not a viable or respectable perspective
this an argument i hear a lot: "freedom better than despotism, but despotism better than chaos"
however, much of chaos is just different ethnic groups wanting their own countries, in old world countries which are old empires fraying at the edges
so my response to you is: perhaps the old empire should crumble in the name of freedom, rather than a strong man keeping the old empire together in the name of stability, no?
the stability of the empire is an excuse used by the strongman. chechen bombers don't bomb moscow subways if moscow lets chechnya leave. but the strongman will use the bombings as an excuse to crackdown on all of russia, not just chechnya
so i'm sorry: "freedom better than despotism, but despotism better than chaos"
i don't buy the argument, it's a lie put forth by strongman, that you unfortunately believe, to your detriment
all you are saying is that because free countries are not 100% perfectly free, they are the same as countries who deny you your freedoms
this is an incredibly moronic way to view the world and the concept of freedom
look: you will never be 100% free, in any society made of human beings, ever. accept that
and so because you are at 99%, 95%, or 90% freedom on society A, does not in any way mean your society is the same as society B, that is 20% or 10% or 5% free on the scale of political expression
your'e one of those people who can't understand concepts except in terms of idealistic ways. and if you can find some way to nitpick how your realty is not 100% like your idealistic view, it's the same as nothing at all
you're an idiot, you really are. and the shame is, there's a lot of gasbags out there like you who complain from the same stupid premise of reality not matching your idealism. IT NEVER WILL
learn to criticize and think about your world from relative positions, not from the absolute position in your mind that will never exist. it means your thoughts and criticisms are useless
http://www.storyit.com/Classics/Stories/citycountrymouse.htm
i am not talking free as in the teenage idiotic definition of freedom: freedom from responsibility
i am talking free as in the adult intelligent definition of freedom: an open participant in the formation of your government and the right to speak whatever is on your mind and criticize anything and anyone you want without fear of official repercussions