The way it should be. I'm so tired of this "oh the whiteman did this"...
You know what, I'm sorry but if you have a family and can't scrap up the 50$ for a bus ticket out of town then you're obviously not fit to be a parent.
This "oh it's my right" bullshit... Having a family is something you have to actually think about. If you can't afford it then clearly you're doing everyone a disservice. And if you're a negro, single with no kids, how can you not afford it? Whitey didn't put roadblocks up. Stupid [black and white] people who can't manage 50$ to their name and/or thought they could ride it out are to blame.
But I guess it's all to easy to sit on your ass, let the tide role in [literally] then blame everyone else for your problems. Seems to be the way of things [everywhere, not just in New Orleans].
That and what the fuck is with the shootings? Is that how you ensure you get timely help by trying to MURDER those who are bringing the help?
Well here's a tip you're not going to find a good amplifier+speakers for 69$...
Suck it up, spend the 500$-1000$ for a home setup and move on.
You don't have to be an audiophile with 3000$ speakers just to get some decent quality sound. I bought a Sony amplifier+receiver which with proper gauge cabling [forget what gauge] for 900$ I can listen to my music and actually like it;-)
... bah try being a cryptographer who refuses to work on DRM [e.g. has priciples]. I've received several offers recently [Sandisk being one of them] that are DRM related.
MSFT may destroy CS but the industry as a whole is destroying itself.
Simple reason: There is no craft anymore. Nobody does anything that is just "cool". Well at least nobody in a position to market new things. Any real innovation you see that is ALSO beneficial to people will come in the form of OSS projects.
I agree it should be illegal but not because it deprives you of a job but because it reinforces slave labour and the net result is often Engrish ridden crap products.
But if I can pay someone fairly [but less than you] elseehere.... too bad. You're asking for too much salary.
I mean when the average developer in California is asking upwards of 100K/yr to do what the average person ANYWHERE else would get 55-65K/yr no shit they'll go elsewhere.
Unfortunately when they do outsource it isn't to better or equal standards of living, pay, workmanship. They do it so they can pay less and still end up with "something".
Anyways, you sir are watching too much Lou Dobbs. That guy is about as in touch with reality as a rock star tripping on acid.
For most user tasks like webbrowsing or email you hardly need anything they sell. I've posted long-winded rants about how a multi-core ARM processor could not only deliver the MIPS required but also cost a fraction of what even an AMD processor costs [in terms of area, power and $$$].
In the grand scheme of "technology" we're wasting a lot of power simply to fund limited choices.
A typical 500Mhz ARM9 or ARM11 processor runs without a fan, barely a heatsink [if any] and is quite capable of rendering a web page. You could throw a dual-core ARM in your laptop and have a processor which TOPS OUT at a couple watts instead of the 22W that the PentiumM takes.
I mean what do you think runs the PSP and PS2? It's not one gigantic processor with a huge clock rate. It's several smaller processors.
For the rest of us who need MIPS [not the company but the power] AMD is a handsdown winner. It can compile software faster, runs crypto faster, runs most ALU bound tasks faster, etc... Even the 64-bit P4 cores are hardly competition.
Sure Yonah may be killer but that's still a year away. Why don't we see Turion laptops NOW?
well you really want to know instructions/second/watt. AMD may have production hurdles ahead but they definitely have the advantage in terms of design.
They had it with the Athlon when it was going head to head with the P3 *AND* P4 processors. sure the K7 had heat issues but so did/does the P4 design. So that's relatively moot.
On the one hand some of the AMD problems are their own. Making really hot K7 processors and not getting into the mobile design was THEIR OWN fault.
On the other hand Intel FUD and rebates likely stole a lot of thunder from AMD.
And in the end a company without clients can't grow. so to have Intel say "oh you didn't build enough fabs boo fricking hoo" is laughable when they're essentially shut out of every major laptop/desktop distributor.
I'd much rather have a Turion based laptop then anything Intel has to offer. But there are not many large-scale [re: repudible] sources of AMD laptops out there.
Eventually people will catch on that Intel processors are shit.
Even though my AMD dual core cost 2x that of my Intel dual-core 820 it was well worth it.
First off, the AMD dual core takes less power. Second, it's much more efficient in terms of IPC. I still clock a 3x improvement in bignum maht and both processors are 64-bit designs!!!
Sure that means little to the average consumer but it can only go on so far. People who need to do serious computing [e.g. servers, workstations, etc] can't use Intel processors because they're so f'ing wasteful.
Sure the PM may be good for laptops but so would a 1Ghz Crusoe...
That's true that HP does sell some AMD systems but not as vigourous as the Intel boxes [where are the variety of amd64/turion boxes?] You can find PM/P4 boxes up the wazoo though...
For that matter, where are the nvidia boxes? Most laptops you can find retail are ATI gfx driven. The "extreme gamer" laptops occasionally have an nvidia chip...
Well here's a hint: ATI + linux == no good.
You don't have to be an extreme gamer to want a simple geforce chipset.
And now someone else repeats it and it's brilliant insightful news...
The problem is this isn't a game specific problem. Most of industry is based around re-hashing last weeks ideas. And last weeks ideas are re-hashes of two week ago ideas,... etc
Look at TV? When reality TV shows really blew up we saw quite a few genres [love or hate em] like fear factor, those dating ones, etc.
Now it's all the same BS. We're in the 12th season of survivor $PLACE and the great race is getting set on sound stage C.
Why do people watch this crap? Because it's what's on TV. People would rather watch crap then nothing! [News at 11!!!].
Imagine this, why do people buy Intel machines? Because it's all that's out there [e.g. Dell, Gateway and HP].
Totally amazing that the EXACT SAME problems occur in computing and TV, two totally unrelated fields... And now people are realizing it's happening in software and games too.
I dunno about you but I just don't buy the cheapest shit I can find. I use ASUS boards not MSI, ANTEC power supplies not "superpowertech", etc, etc, etc...
Net result is that my boxes "just work".
But more importantly if you're in a mission critical situation and your job is to keep the servers running then you DO have time to play screwdriver monkey. That's part of the job.
But to each their own. I can put together servers that cost under 1K to buy. I'd rather put it together myself if it means I don't have to shell out more money for a "professional kit" or support contracts or what not.
um they're not all servers... and we don't really serve a lot of exterior clients.
The computers have to run because we develop software/hardware on them. Testing if it works amounts to "does make build your stuff right?".
I think people vastly over dramatize the average computer install. If you're not serving millions of pages a day you don't need to buy a commercial server "box".
Well I know for one we won't be wasting time with updating anti-virus and firewall and the sort.
Generally in the field you don't update all the working tools that often anyways. So once you get a Linux box going and working proper it'll keep going until the hardware dies.
It's when you start upgrading software that the hairy bits come out. For the most part an update in Gentoo goes off without a hitch so it ammounts to either rolling out updates or just clone a master and spend the 7 minutes per box to unpack the disk image.
32 boxes x 10 minutes each once a month == ~6 hours of time from an employee ~180$ per month 2160 per year or 67$ per box.
And even "once a month" is a bit much.
In this case we're not 32 gentoo boxes but about 12 gentoo, 6 redhat, a couple windows and the rest are "whatever". I manage my own gentoo workstation and the other 11 boxes are either static [used for testing our FPGA designs] or servers that the IT guy maintains.
It's much cheaper [and free-marketish] to pick out your own components and build it. And really, it doesn't take that long provided you have the staff to build it.
Though I guess if you want the fast-food of computing you deserve either shite service or expensive networks [or both].
Hehehe, yeah but my point is you need an admin in both cases.
So the net TCO is what you pay on top of that.
In the MSFT/UNIX case it's license/support contracts.
In the Linux case it's um... nothing. Yes, you may occasionally spend more time yourself fixing something but most of the time it's trivial stuff [e.g. wrong hostname, wrong conf.d/net wrong yp.conf] or stuff that you can find an answer on say gentoo forums.
Unless MSFT computers don't run on electricity and don't require a physical box to be present the TCO includes that and then the license fees and support.
Maybe IBM means to say an IBM license/support contract for IBM Linux costs 43k/yr or something...
But whatever, who cares. Gentoo works just fine in a wide variety of roles from desktop, to server, to router, to media box, etc...
We built 8 gentoo linux boxes in the span of two weeks here at my office.
Cost of parts: 10K Cost of labour: two people x two weeks x 900/week = 3600$
Other costs [power/netaccess]: trivial
So for [round up] 15K we bought, assembled, built, installed and setup 8 boxes. that's a cost of roughly 2K each.
Whoopy doo.
Where the hell does 43K/yr come from? Is that the cost of the employee as well?
Well the guy we did hire to manage this, had we planned on keeping him would cost ~60K/yr which when you split over the 32 boxes in the office is trivial.
And we don't have to buy server license upgrades or what not. So really the cost of ownership above the staffer we would have had to have anyways is ZERO. Not 43K/yr.
I'm not against free-market economies quite the opposite I'm for them. Specifically because I AM for them I despise companies like this that blue button theorem something and then demand to get paid for it.
There SHOULDN'T be a market for this application and solely because the powers that be want to make it so doesn't mean it's right.
I mean there was a time when people knew how to use their computers. But now that everything is shiny and impressive corporations don't tend to make products that require customers to think.
So they do the thinking for them. Except their thinking is how to make profit, not a good product.
If corporations had customer best interests in mind we would never had seen half the shit that is in Windows [and tools that run in it]. We wouldn't have had WEP or WPA. We wouldn't have 900 page ever-growing drafts for WiMAX, etc, etc, etc.
There are a lot of "trivial" applications that are getting throw around as the be all. and only through corporate dominance [e.g. MS Office] does it succeed.
A lot of people say "but can it open.doc files?" as a complaint against OO.o. Or they say "but this device doesn't work in linux", etc. There was a time when application/device developers would strive for compatibility.
Does linux support your SCSI card? Wrong question. Does your SCSI card support Linux!!! Does your SCSI card follow standards? Is it properly document? etc...
But people are so void of visible options that they assume that's the way it is, has been and always will. I agree that whatever Dell sells is what people "think exists".
And it's specifically because companies like Dell, Intel and Microsoft collude that a free-market DOES NOT EXIST.
Sorry to rant but if you think you live in a free market society you're totally fucking clueless. Your entire life has been mapped and fits within corporate profiles of maximum profitability.
McDonalds doesn't make a lot of money because they sell things people need. Same applies to the oil companies, microsoft and in this case WinZIP.
And people flame me when I say people should learn how to use computers...:-/
Maybe if people realized how to put a shell script together [like back in the day BYTE used to put batch scripts on how to automate this or that] they wouldn't shell out money.
But you say "that's anti-american". I say no.
I say, if the people at winzip didn't have a market they'd put their talents to something that actually is needed, furthering technology and bringing humanity further along.
These companies that write dime-a-dozen utilities are nothing more than leaches on society. They're not really contributing anything and just trying to suck money out of a stone.
Seriously, windows users come to expect nothing any more I guess. There are alternatives to "the 10th edition of twenty year old compression algorithms".
I'm sorry but honestly what the fuck is the real market for Winzip?
Even when I was a windows user I used Winimp as it is free, compresses better [when making.imp, it also handles zips fine] and doesn't require me to shell out money.
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The way it should be. I'm so tired of this "oh the whiteman did this"...
You know what, I'm sorry but if you have a family and can't scrap up the 50$ for a bus ticket out of town then you're obviously not fit to be a parent.
This "oh it's my right" bullshit... Having a family is something you have to actually think about. If you can't afford it then clearly you're doing everyone a disservice. And if you're a negro, single with no kids, how can you not afford it? Whitey didn't put roadblocks up. Stupid [black and white] people who can't manage 50$ to their name and/or thought they could ride it out are to blame.
But I guess it's all to easy to sit on your ass, let the tide role in [literally] then blame everyone else for your problems. Seems to be the way of things [everywhere, not just in New Orleans].
That and what the fuck is with the shootings? Is that how you ensure you get timely help by trying to MURDER those who are bringing the help?
Tom
Well here's a tip you're not going to find a good amplifier+speakers for 69$...
;-)
Suck it up, spend the 500$-1000$ for a home setup and move on.
You don't have to be an audiophile with 3000$ speakers just to get some decent quality sound. I bought a Sony amplifier+receiver which with proper gauge cabling [forget what gauge] for 900$ I can listen to my music and actually like it
Tom
... bah try being a cryptographer who refuses to work on DRM [e.g. has priciples]. I've received several offers recently [Sandisk being one of them] that are DRM related.
MSFT may destroy CS but the industry as a whole is destroying itself.
Simple reason: There is no craft anymore. Nobody does anything that is just "cool". Well at least nobody in a position to market new things. Any real innovation you see that is ALSO beneficial to people will come in the form of OSS projects.
Tom
How is outsourcing treason?
I agree it should be illegal but not because it deprives you of a job but because it reinforces slave labour and the net result is often Engrish ridden crap products.
But if I can pay someone fairly [but less than you] elseehere.... too bad. You're asking for too much salary.
I mean when the average developer in California is asking upwards of 100K/yr to do what the average person ANYWHERE else would get 55-65K/yr no shit they'll go elsewhere.
Unfortunately when they do outsource it isn't to better or equal standards of living, pay, workmanship. They do it so they can pay less and still end up with "something".
Anyways, you sir are watching too much Lou Dobbs. That guy is about as in touch with reality as a rock star tripping on acid.
Tom
1) The NRA defence of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is now dead
Guns don't kill people, ethnic minorities do.
Thank you south park!
Tom
[Yes, I'm kiddin]
For most user tasks like webbrowsing or email you hardly need anything they sell. I've posted long-winded rants about how a multi-core ARM processor could not only deliver the MIPS required but also cost a fraction of what even an AMD processor costs [in terms of area, power and $$$].
In the grand scheme of "technology" we're wasting a lot of power simply to fund limited choices.
A typical 500Mhz ARM9 or ARM11 processor runs without a fan, barely a heatsink [if any] and is quite capable of rendering a web page. You could throw a dual-core ARM in your laptop and have a processor which TOPS OUT at a couple watts instead of the 22W that the PentiumM takes.
I mean what do you think runs the PSP and PS2? It's not one gigantic processor with a huge clock rate. It's several smaller processors.
For the rest of us who need MIPS [not the company but the power] AMD is a handsdown winner. It can compile software faster, runs crypto faster, runs most ALU bound tasks faster, etc... Even the 64-bit P4 cores are hardly competition.
Sure Yonah may be killer but that's still a year away. Why don't we see Turion laptops NOW?
Tom
well you really want to know instructions/second/watt. AMD may have production hurdles ahead but they definitely have the advantage in terms of design.
They had it with the Athlon when it was going head to head with the P3 *AND* P4 processors. sure the K7 had heat issues but so did/does the P4 design. So that's relatively moot.
On the one hand some of the AMD problems are their own. Making really hot K7 processors and not getting into the mobile design was THEIR OWN fault.
On the other hand Intel FUD and rebates likely stole a lot of thunder from AMD.
And in the end a company without clients can't grow. so to have Intel say "oh you didn't build enough fabs boo fricking hoo" is laughable when they're essentially shut out of every major laptop/desktop distributor.
I'd much rather have a Turion based laptop then anything Intel has to offer. But there are not many large-scale [re: repudible] sources of AMD laptops out there.
Tom
Eventually people will catch on that Intel processors are shit.
Even though my AMD dual core cost 2x that of my Intel dual-core 820 it was well worth it.
First off, the AMD dual core takes less power. Second, it's much more efficient in terms of IPC. I still clock a 3x improvement in bignum maht and both processors are 64-bit designs!!!
Sure that means little to the average consumer but it can only go on so far. People who need to do serious computing [e.g. servers, workstations, etc] can't use Intel processors because they're so f'ing wasteful.
Sure the PM may be good for laptops but so would a 1Ghz Crusoe...
Tom
That's true that HP does sell some AMD systems but not as vigourous as the Intel boxes [where are the variety of amd64/turion boxes?] You can find PM/P4 boxes up the wazoo though...
For that matter, where are the nvidia boxes? Most laptops you can find retail are ATI gfx driven. The "extreme gamer" laptops occasionally have an nvidia chip...
Well here's a hint: ATI + linux == no good.
You don't have to be an extreme gamer to want a simple geforce chipset.
Tom
I've been saying this for years now.
... etc
"what" new textures?"
And now someone else repeats it and it's brilliant insightful news...
The problem is this isn't a game specific problem. Most of industry is based around re-hashing last weeks ideas. And last weeks ideas are re-hashes of two week ago ideas,
Look at TV? When reality TV shows really blew up we saw quite a few genres [love or hate em] like fear factor, those dating ones, etc.
Now it's all the same BS. We're in the 12th season of survivor $PLACE and the great race is getting set on sound stage C.
Why do people watch this crap? Because it's what's on TV. People would rather watch crap then nothing! [News at 11!!!].
Imagine this, why do people buy Intel machines? Because it's all that's out there [e.g. Dell, Gateway and HP].
Totally amazing that the EXACT SAME problems occur in computing and TV, two totally unrelated fields... And now people are realizing it's happening in software and games too.
Shocking!
Tom
um ... ok.
I dunno about you but I just don't buy the cheapest shit I can find. I use ASUS boards not MSI, ANTEC power supplies not "superpowertech", etc, etc, etc...
Net result is that my boxes "just work".
But more importantly if you're in a mission critical situation and your job is to keep the servers running then you DO have time to play screwdriver monkey. That's part of the job.
But to each their own. I can put together servers that cost under 1K to buy. I'd rather put it together myself if it means I don't have to shell out more money for a "professional kit" or support contracts or what not.
Tom
um they're not all servers... and we don't really serve a lot of exterior clients.
The computers have to run because we develop software/hardware on them. Testing if it works amounts to "does make build your stuff right?".
I think people vastly over dramatize the average computer install. If you're not serving millions of pages a day you don't need to buy a commercial server "box".
Tom
Well I know for one we won't be wasting time with updating anti-virus and firewall and the sort.
Generally in the field you don't update all the working tools that often anyways. So once you get a Linux box going and working proper it'll keep going until the hardware dies.
It's when you start upgrading software that the hairy bits come out. For the most part an update in Gentoo goes off without a hitch so it ammounts to either rolling out updates or just clone a master and spend the 7 minutes per box to unpack the disk image.
32 boxes x 10 minutes each once a month == ~6 hours of time from an employee ~180$ per month 2160 per year or 67$ per box.
And even "once a month" is a bit much.
In this case we're not 32 gentoo boxes but about 12 gentoo, 6 redhat, a couple windows and the rest are "whatever". I manage my own gentoo workstation and the other 11 boxes are either static [used for testing our FPGA designs] or servers that the IT guy maintains.
Tom
Then you get what you deserve.
It's much cheaper [and free-marketish] to pick out your own components and build it. And really, it doesn't take that long provided you have the staff to build it.
Though I guess if you want the fast-food of computing you deserve either shite service or expensive networks [or both].
Tom
Hehehe, yeah but my point is you need an admin in both cases.
... nothing. Yes, you may occasionally spend more time yourself fixing something but most of the time it's trivial stuff [e.g. wrong hostname, wrong conf.d/net wrong yp.conf] or stuff that you can find an answer on say gentoo forums.
So the net TCO is what you pay on top of that.
In the MSFT/UNIX case it's license/support contracts.
In the Linux case it's um
Unless MSFT computers don't run on electricity and don't require a physical box to be present the TCO includes that and then the license fees and support.
Maybe IBM means to say an IBM license/support contract for IBM Linux costs 43k/yr or something...
But whatever, who cares. Gentoo works just fine in a wide variety of roles from desktop, to server, to router, to media box, etc...
Tom
I'm the other way. I think 43k/yr is just some random figure pulled out of their ass.
Gentoo Linux is free. So above the energy, space, staffer requirements the GNU/Linux costs are ZERO.
You'd need an "IT guy" even if you ran friggin MS-DOS with Netware extensions...
Why people think it's ANY different with different OSes is beyond me.
Tom
We built 8 gentoo linux boxes in the span of two weeks here at my office.
Cost of parts: 10K
Cost of labour: two people x two weeks x 900/week = 3600$
Other costs [power/netaccess]: trivial
So for [round up] 15K we bought, assembled, built, installed and setup 8 boxes. that's a cost of roughly 2K each.
Whoopy doo.
Where the hell does 43K/yr come from? Is that the cost of the employee as well?
Well the guy we did hire to manage this, had we planned on keeping him would cost ~60K/yr which when you split over the 32 boxes in the office is trivial.
And we don't have to buy server license upgrades or what not. So really the cost of ownership above the staffer we would have had to have anyways is ZERO. Not 43K/yr.
Tom
I have a raid-1 with two drives, but the work is also on the main drive and two other drives in a different PCs.
Tom
?
He was talking about random access to an archive...
Presumably that's for a backup. If you just want to pack up files just tarball it, burn it to a CD and bring it over.
You sir have failed to complete a rational thought.
Tom
And defending the status-quo as proper is better?
.doc files?" as a complaint against OO.o. Or they say "but this device doesn't work in linux", etc. There was a time when application/device developers would strive for compatibility.
I'm not against free-market economies quite the opposite I'm for them. Specifically because I AM for them I despise companies like this that blue button theorem something and then demand to get paid for it.
There SHOULDN'T be a market for this application and solely because the powers that be want to make it so doesn't mean it's right.
I mean there was a time when people knew how to use their computers. But now that everything is shiny and impressive corporations don't tend to make products that require customers to think.
So they do the thinking for them. Except their thinking is how to make profit, not a good product.
If corporations had customer best interests in mind we would never had seen half the shit that is in Windows [and tools that run in it]. We wouldn't have had WEP or WPA. We wouldn't have 900 page ever-growing drafts for WiMAX, etc, etc, etc.
There are a lot of "trivial" applications that are getting throw around as the be all. and only through corporate dominance [e.g. MS Office] does it succeed.
A lot of people say "but can it open
Does linux support your SCSI card? Wrong question. Does your SCSI card support Linux!!! Does your SCSI card follow standards? Is it properly document? etc...
But people are so void of visible options that they assume that's the way it is, has been and always will. I agree that whatever Dell sells is what people "think exists".
And it's specifically because companies like Dell, Intel and Microsoft collude that a free-market DOES NOT EXIST.
Sorry to rant but if you think you live in a free market society you're totally fucking clueless. Your entire life has been mapped and fits within corporate profiles of maximum profitability.
McDonalds doesn't make a lot of money because they sell things people need. Same applies to the oil companies, microsoft and in this case WinZIP.
Tom
... if you want a backup "archive" ... use a raid volume. It's easier and wait more reliable.
source => nightly tarball on raid => weekly packing on CDR
That's how you can do fairly reliable backups for cheap.
For me to lose my work I'd have to have five hardrives fail and my CDR collection evaporate.
Tom
Like all other senses of importance it's only important if you make it so.
Seek alternatives [even in windows] and you'll find out that Winzip is about as important as the colour of the backside of the moon.
Tom
And people flame me when I say people should learn how to use computers... :-/
Maybe if people realized how to put a shell script together [like back in the day BYTE used to put batch scripts on how to automate this or that] they wouldn't shell out money.
But you say "that's anti-american". I say no.
I say, if the people at winzip didn't have a market they'd put their talents to something that actually is needed, furthering technology and bringing humanity further along.
These companies that write dime-a-dozen utilities are nothing more than leaches on society. They're not really contributing anything and just trying to suck money out of a stone.
Tom
How the hell is what I wrote a troll? it's the truth. Free alternatives that often work better are available.
I guess if you mean "we must buy all software even if it's WORTHLESS and anything contrary to this is trolling" then you're right...
But seriously, I do backups to CDR weekly and I haven't paid a dime for the software to do it.
Tom
tar + bzip2 + mkisofs + cdrecord.
.imp, it also handles zips fine] and doesn't require me to shell out money.
Wow... now I don't need "professional" tools.
Seriously, windows users come to expect nothing any more I guess. There are alternatives to "the 10th edition of twenty year old compression algorithms".
I'm sorry but honestly what the fuck is the real market for Winzip?
Even when I was a windows user I used Winimp as it is free, compresses better [when making
Tom