I was in a hurry [couldn't finish post] to get to class [yes note the irony]. Sorry about that.
ok what happened was a few of them did full blown huge presentations on various things but failed to meet the smallest requisits. In turn while they gave technically interesting presentations they missed the basic requirements and failed [this is an English class].
My point was that in order to impress people they tend to try and memorize huge blocks of facts. Instead they should just try to master English more [e.g. not speak their native tungue so much at home so they get practice.]. Might seem "unfair" but this is what we call reality. In Canada we are English and French primarily [mostly English where I live]. So if you only speak a Chinese language you're not going to fit in well no matter how well intentioned you are.
As an aside I concur that the influx of "immigints" from asia is big royal pain in the arse.
I'm sorry, but if you're going to move to another country learn how to speak the bloody language first. Having to put up with 15 asians in my english class is a huge pain in the ass because they talk so incoherently.
They also [from my experience in my classes] have a tendency to try and memorize alot of things. In one of my classes we had to give short 5 mins presentations on a "mechanism". Basically to show off you know how to break something down and present it. Most people did simple things [I did a game pad] since the only thing that counts is that you have the steps there [not the content of the steps].
Not to say everyone is evil. I've met nice people from all corners of the earth. I'm just saying when people get angry at these types I can understand where its comming from.
My point was that we are using windows for everything, in particular MSVC for C and C++. Hahaha, I didn't mean we are doing Perl in MSVC... You're funny...good one. I wish I thought of that myself.
I sorta agree. Its not enough to recognize that new languages pass like fads. You must also recognize that the principles of CS apply to any programming language and are not specific of Java or C++ or Perl or etc..
e.g. You can program linked lists in C++ just as easily as you can program linked lists in C or Perl or Java or Pascal or...
A school that teaches both modern languages and theory is what I would deem as a "good school". Its important to know C [in particular] as well as perhaps C++, Java, Perl, just as it is important as to know how to solve problems with computers [e.g. the theory side].
Unfortunately the Devry Technical Institute is far more well known than any university course.
Even to some extent my College is going a bit too far. While my courses do involve theory we spend whole semester long classes on subjects like C++ or Java.... really should be 3 weeks at the most...
An entire generation (mine) learned Pascal in college. The generation before they all learned Fortran.
There is a clear distinction though. You probably learned CS related subjects [algorithms, number theory, data structures, etc..] and did practical work in Pascal.
Whereas many current schools are making the language the sole focus of study.
Saying "I learned CS using C++" is analogous to saying "I studied math in English". The language you program with is just a means to an ends. It is not the end!
An entire generation of CS students, (and lots of non-CS students) are learning Java.
Any CS diploma/degree that focuses only on a programming language and not general CS theory [e.g. language theory, algorithms and optimizations, number theory, etc...] is not worth anything.
Anyone can learn how to hack in a given language. A true CS student will understand the concepts of a language and will be able to pick up a new language in say 10 hours of practice at the most.
A true CS student will also appreciate that there is more to computers than "the hottest language".
CS is all about "how do I solve this problem with a computer" much like chemistry is about "how do I solve this problem with the basic elements"...
So really trying to focus on.NET or Java is just a shame and shouldn't be called CS.
You missed my point. I was saying using a trademark on a new medium is still trademark infringement. Note that "any use of the name whatsoever is wrong".
So you might invent "PepsiLotsa" which would be new. But simply just using "Pepsi" is wrong since you don't own the name.
The idea stems back to fair play. If anyone could use a name then we'd all drive Fords, drink Pepsi and use Intel based computers. Even though none of the mentioned products were made by the original inventors.
You will not be able to trust anything anymore since the name holds no reputation.
On the other hand if you name is "BigFakeIntel" then clearly a consumer will tell the difference between that and the real thing. If you just use "Intel" then its muddy.
Translation: You can be a company afraid of the Internet and be slow to adjust to market market pressures. When you finally open your eyes and see that others have taken advantage of your lethargy in hopes of monetary gain, you need not fret -- just taken them to court.
So if I invent a new medium I should be able to own the reprensentation of Pepsi?
That's what we are talking about. By registering say "pepsi.com" before the Pepsi company does your infringing on their right to the trademark and proper representation.
Note that I am totally against disallowing registrations like "pepsisucks.com", etc. Just the name itself should be the property of the inventor. Otherwise each time a new medium is invented they could lose represenation.
Really want to test that? Lets pull two random non-guru's off the street and see who can setup a new USB scanner or something the quickest.
Let's see...
In windows. You plug in the device, chances are it will detect it and ask for the disk. Perhaps a reboot [not always as is the case for my zipdrive and LG scanner].
In linux. It might recognize the device, chances are the kernel will not have been configured with support for it. The user not knowing how to modify his kernel [or the modules] will be stumped. Even if an RPM is available chances are it was for a kernel 2 versions ago and doesn't work [e.g. dependency errors]. Even if they manage to rebuild the kernel [like I have] even with USB Scanner support checked, they will marvel at the fact that The GIMP doesn't detect it.
Mock me as you will, but I am not a newbie to computers. I certainly am a Newbie when it comes to linux though. Mock me as you will, but my technical skills in Linux represent what an "advanced newbie" will know. So if I can't figure it out [even though I'm well versed in how to use compilers and write software, see my website for some examples] then chances are some newbie off the street [so to speak] will not figure it out.
See when you pull your head out of your butt and realize that the average user is not technically versed you will see how Linux is flawed.
Note that I never said "Kill Linux". By all means I respect what they are trying todo. My position is just that they are not there in terms of useability which is why [despite all your groans and moans] Windows is still very popular.
At 9Mbit/sec for video you'd think people would be happy. I mean you can get TV quality video [on a desktop monitor] from 320x240x29.97 at 1.15Mbit/sec.
If 9Mbit/sec is not enough for your 720x480 movies then "boo friggin hoo". I'd rather not be forced to upgrade all my equipment because some videophile wants a crystal clear 1600x1200x60fps picture. Personally I am not that obsessed with TV and movies to really care.
I'm of the league that watching 320x240 movies is considered ok and fun [specially when full screen].
What if the mobo+sound+network+case+etc [except the CPU] was less than the CPU?
A computer is not complete without the CPU.
Similarly to many people a computer is not complete without Windows.
You might say "ah lets use a different CPU!" [or OS] but the point is 99% of computer owners don't even know what "linux" is, let alone how to use it.
In order for Linux to win it must emulate the UI of Windows. Its really that simple. People [including myself] like point and click type UI's. I mean I don't want to wave through random directories and commands and god knows what just to setup a new NIC or something...
I'm not too stupid to use linux, in fact I've installed and used it on a number of occasions.
My conclusions were that most of my software worked only in Windows and I saw no reason to keep up with Linux. Also that SP'ing the kernel [aka building a new one] is too much trouble then its worth.
See there are two boats I could be.
1. I use Win2K, all my hardware/software works and its easy to configure [e.g. control panels and stuff]. Updating the OS is a matter of clicking on an icon and it does binary patches automatically.
or
2. I use RH linux where most of my hardware works but not alot of the software [e.g. TV, CDR]. Its a bitch to configure and never gets the right monitor refresh rate correct on the first try [if I shut down gnome via CTRL+SHIFT+BACKSPACE and run it again it might work] and where updating the kernel is a manner of downloading, installing, configuring, building, re-configruing, re-building, updating LILO, rebooting, finding out it doesn't work...
etc...
I mean I develop my own software but when it comes to setting up a computer I much rather spend 1/8'th the time using pretty and functional GUIs
you can be "smart" and sit in boat #2 all you want, that's your *choice*. I simply choose to sit in boat #1.
True, I don't claim to be a prophet of any sort. I don't know how to fix the problems either.
Just in Canada we don't pay as much attention to court proceedings as in the states. Most Canadians don't even know how the courts even work here! [they use Law&Order as the model].
In the states there is far too much "media" focus on it, half of the time its trivial crap that nobody cares about but are forced to see if they want to follow the news.
Slashdot Mirror
Arrg.
:-)
Ok I know when to throw in the towel
Tom
Two wrongs make a right?
Tom
In the US at least there is the fair use clause of the copyright laws.
So in reality this senator should just be acting to ensure that your laws are being upheld.
There is no need for special new laws to uphold laws that already exist.
Geez...
Ah you could argue such taxes are in the best interests of others.
If you put a tarif on nike's then there will be little incentive for sweatshops in 3rd-rate countries.
Tom
I agree, considering the lights don't blink for each bit sent. All you would know is when the modem is receiving/sending.
Tom
I was in a hurry [couldn't finish post] to get to class [yes note the irony]. Sorry about that.
ok what happened was a few of them did full blown huge presentations on various things but failed to meet the smallest requisits. In turn while they gave technically interesting presentations they missed the basic requirements and failed [this is an English class].
My point was that in order to impress people they tend to try and memorize huge blocks of facts. Instead they should just try to master English more [e.g. not speak their native tungue so much at home so they get practice.]. Might seem "unfair" but this is what we call reality. In Canada we are English and French primarily [mostly English where I live]. So if you only speak a Chinese language you're not going to fit in well no matter how well intentioned you are.
Tom
Agreed. Which is why my college does alot of practical work along side the little theory we touch on. I suspect alot of universities are the same.
I suppose its just a good idea to get involved in an open source project or two. If done well can be a powerful part of your portfolio.
Tom
As an aside I concur that the influx of "immigints" from asia is big royal pain in the arse.
I'm sorry, but if you're going to move to another country learn how to speak the bloody language first. Having to put up with 15 asians in my english class is a huge pain in the ass because they talk so incoherently.
They also [from my experience in my classes] have a tendency to try and memorize alot of things. In one of my classes we had to give short 5 mins presentations on a "mechanism". Basically to show off you know how to break something down and present it. Most people did simple things [I did a game pad] since the only thing that counts is that you have the steps there [not the content of the steps].
Not to say everyone is evil. I've met nice people from all corners of the earth. I'm just saying when people get angry at these types I can understand where its comming from.
Tom
My point was that we are using windows for everything, in particular MSVC for C and C++. Hahaha, I didn't mean we are doing Perl in MSVC... You're funny...good one. I wish I thought of that myself.
Now put your head back in the ground.
Tom
I sorta agree. Its not enough to recognize that new languages pass like fads. You must also recognize that the principles of CS apply to any programming language and are not specific of Java or C++ or Perl or etc..
...
e.g. You can program linked lists in C++ just as easily as you can program linked lists in C or Perl or Java or Pascal or
A school that teaches both modern languages and theory is what I would deem as a "good school". Its important to know C [in particular] as well as perhaps C++, Java, Perl, just as it is important as to know how to solve problems with computers [e.g. the theory side].
Tom
Unfortunately the Devry Technical Institute is far more well known than any university course.
...
Even to some extent my College is going a bit too far. While my courses do involve theory we spend whole semester long classes on subjects like C++ or Java.... really should be 3 weeks at the most
Tom
An entire generation (mine) learned Pascal in college. The generation before they all learned Fortran.
There is a clear distinction though. You probably learned CS related subjects [algorithms, number theory, data structures, etc..] and did practical work in Pascal.
Whereas many current schools are making the language the sole focus of study.
Saying "I learned CS using C++" is analogous to saying "I studied math in English". The language you program with is just a means to an ends. It is not the end!
Tom
An entire generation of CS students,
.NET or Java is just a shame and shouldn't be called CS.
(and lots of non-CS students) are learning Java.
Any CS diploma/degree that focuses only on a programming language and not general CS theory [e.g. language theory, algorithms and optimizations, number theory, etc...] is not worth anything.
Anyone can learn how to hack in a given language. A true CS student will understand the concepts of a language and will be able to pick up a new language in say 10 hours of practice at the most.
A true CS student will also appreciate that there is more to computers than "the hottest language".
CS is all about "how do I solve this problem with a computer" much like chemistry is about "how do I solve this problem with the basic elements"...
So really trying to focus on
Tom
Of all the things I pick on my school for they do approach this debate a bit more maturely.
We start off learning Perl, C++, C, various data structures ideas, algorithms, etc..
All using MSVC. But they also dedicate portions of the course to learning Linux, QNX and how to develop applications on those platforms.
The goal is to appreciate both sides of the OS wars.
Tom
There is a strong difference between
pepsi@joeblow.com and pepsi.com
People will understand the former to be non-official and the latter to be official.
Similarly there is a difference between writing a book called "The effects of Pepsi on the human stomach." and "Pepsi".
Its what people will reasonably understand your name to represent. If a reasonable person will think you're representing the owner then thats bad.
The definition of "reasonable" is what is in question.
Tom
You missed my point. I was saying using a trademark on a new medium is still trademark infringement. Note that "any use of the name whatsoever is wrong".
So you might invent "PepsiLotsa" which would be new. But simply just using "Pepsi" is wrong since you don't own the name.
The idea stems back to fair play. If anyone could use a name then we'd all drive Fords, drink Pepsi and use Intel based computers. Even though none of the mentioned products were made by the original inventors.
You will not be able to trust anything anymore since the name holds no reputation.
On the other hand if you name is "BigFakeIntel" then clearly a consumer will tell the difference between that and the real thing. If you just use "Intel" then its muddy.
Tom
Yeah but its first come first serve.
Why not use [in this example] "pepsielectronics.com" or "pepsie.com".
Same goes for trademarks on anything else. You can't sell "Pepsi cola" in the states or Canada because Pepsi owns the name,
See I am against companies registering every possible alternation of the name under the sun.
Translation: You can be a company afraid of the Internet and be slow to adjust to market market pressures. When you finally open your eyes and see that others have taken advantage of your lethargy in hopes of monetary gain, you need not fret -- just taken them to court.
So if I invent a new medium I should be able to own the reprensentation of Pepsi?
That's what we are talking about. By registering say "pepsi.com" before the Pepsi company does your infringing on their right to the trademark and proper representation.
Note that I am totally against disallowing registrations like "pepsisucks.com", etc. Just the name itself should be the property of the inventor. Otherwise each time a new medium is invented they could lose represenation.
Tom
Really want to test that? Lets pull two random non-guru's off the street and see who can setup a new USB scanner or something the quickest.
Let's see...
In windows. You plug in the device, chances are it will detect it and ask for the disk. Perhaps a reboot [not always as is the case for my zipdrive and LG scanner].
In linux. It might recognize the device, chances are the kernel will not have been configured with support for it. The user not knowing how to modify his kernel [or the modules] will be stumped. Even if an RPM is available chances are it was for a kernel 2 versions ago and doesn't work [e.g. dependency errors]. Even if they manage to rebuild the kernel [like I have] even with USB Scanner support checked, they will marvel at the fact that The GIMP doesn't detect it.
Mock me as you will, but I am not a newbie to computers. I certainly am a Newbie when it comes to linux though. Mock me as you will, but my technical skills in Linux represent what an "advanced newbie" will know. So if I can't figure it out [even though I'm well versed in how to use compilers and write software, see my website for some examples] then chances are some newbie off the street [so to speak] will not figure it out.
See when you pull your head out of your butt and realize that the average user is not technically versed you will see how Linux is flawed.
Note that I never said "Kill Linux". By all means I respect what they are trying todo. My position is just that they are not there in terms of useability which is why [despite all your groans and moans] Windows is still very popular.
Tom
At 9Mbit/sec for video you'd think people would be happy. I mean you can get TV quality video [on a desktop monitor] from 320x240x29.97 at 1.15Mbit/sec.
If 9Mbit/sec is not enough for your 720x480 movies then "boo friggin hoo". I'd rather not be forced to upgrade all my equipment because some videophile wants a crystal clear 1600x1200x60fps picture. Personally I am not that obsessed with TV and movies to really care.
I'm of the league that watching 320x240 movies is considered ok and fun [specially when full screen].
Tom
Hehehehehehehehehe
Of course on internal networks you can simply use IPv4 style ips though... So at lan parties you can use 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 with ease.
Tom
Very true. The problem is that Linux doesn't fully emulate Windows user interface which means it won't be a mainstream replacement.
Tom
Since when was that a breaking point?
What if the mobo+sound+network+case+etc [except the CPU] was less than the CPU?
A computer is not complete without the CPU.
Similarly to many people a computer is not complete without Windows.
You might say "ah lets use a different CPU!" [or OS] but the point is 99% of computer owners don't even know what "linux" is, let alone how to use it.
In order for Linux to win it must emulate the UI of Windows. Its really that simple. People [including myself] like point and click type UI's. I mean I don't want to wave through random directories and commands and god knows what just to setup a new NIC or something...
Tom
I'm not too stupid to use linux, in fact I've installed and used it on a number of occasions.
My conclusions were that most of my software worked only in Windows and I saw no reason to keep up with Linux. Also that SP'ing the kernel [aka building a new one] is too much trouble then its worth.
See there are two boats I could be.
1. I use Win2K, all my hardware/software works and its easy to configure [e.g. control panels and stuff]. Updating the OS is a matter of clicking on an icon and it does binary patches automatically.
or
2. I use RH linux where most of my hardware works but not alot of the software [e.g. TV, CDR]. Its a bitch to configure and never gets the right monitor refresh rate correct on the first try [if I shut down gnome via CTRL+SHIFT+BACKSPACE and run it again it might work] and where updating the kernel is a manner of downloading, installing, configuring, building, re-configruing, re-building, updating LILO, rebooting, finding out it doesn't work...
etc...
I mean I develop my own software but when it comes to setting up a computer I much rather spend 1/8'th the time using pretty and functional GUIs
you can be "smart" and sit in boat #2 all you want, that's your *choice*. I simply choose to sit in boat #1.
Tom
True, I don't claim to be a prophet of any sort. I don't know how to fix the problems either.
Just in Canada we don't pay as much attention to court proceedings as in the states. Most Canadians don't even know how the courts even work here! [they use Law&Order as the model].
In the states there is far too much "media" focus on it, half of the time its trivial crap that nobody cares about but are forced to see if they want to follow the news.
Tom