You also need to put subsidies in relation to the maturity of the product. The point of PV and wind subsidies is to quickly accelerate them to a point where they'd make a substantial impact. The fossil fuel market has been maturing over the last century, so they don't need subsidies anymore.
So, in addition to the standard costs of investment, like materials and installation, he's got to jack up his insurance premium too. Good to know if you're deciding to install solar.
That depends on where you live. Never in my life have I witnessed hailstorms severe enough to damage solar panels.
But they claimed CSP was mature enough for Ivanpah, not a pilot or experimental project, but one that committed to delivering energy contractually. Meanwhile, many of us knew they could never deliver.
Sure, people claim a lot of things, especially when wearing suits. Now we've learned that they lied, and we won't believe them next time. There's a reason that CSP only represents 2.5% of the entire solar market.
Then, with solar panels, how about we discuss the materials and manufacturing methods as well as the material acquisition and the energy consumed in their production.
The materials used in common silicon PV panels are mostly silicon, plus some tiny bits of others. Whether you produce them in a clean or dirty way has nothing to do with the technology itself. That's purely a matter of choice and regulation, similar to mining coal or uranium, or materials for your new phone. The cost of the energy used by their production is already reflected in the price of the solar panels.
- has burned thousands of birds [eenews.net] to death.
That's less than a dozen house cats do in the same period. But seriously, some projects using new technology will fail. That's to be expected. That's how we learn what works and what doesn't.
Price of solar panels has dropped by more than 60% in the last decade, and the end is not in sight. Pretty soon the system you paid with tax breaks will cost less new without tax breaks. On the other hand, price of oil, coal and gas will go up in the future.
So the first step is to start working on time travel?
The point is that this isn't new information. We've been knowing for a long time that this was going to happen. First denying it for decades, and then saying it's too late to act isn't really an inspiring strategy.
Agreed, but that's a pointless remark, since the mechanism behind CO2 induced warming is well understood on a physical basis. It was already understood more than a century ago, and the global warming effect was already predicted then.
- Antarctic ice is growing: (shrug) we really don't have any idea why this is happening I guess we'll just have to figure it out (shrug, again)
If you look at the volume, Antarctic ice is shrinking. There are some good theories about why the sea ice is growing, but scientist like to be careful. In any case, growing Antarctic sea ice area isn't really helping anybody, nor is it conflicting with global warming.
You know, that thing with testable and falsifiable hypotheses, which climate "science" doesn't bother with?
Nonsense. The warming over the last 40 years gives us enough data to test and falsify the hypothesis that CO2 is responsible. How much longer do you propose we wait before we draw any conclusions ? Feel free to add your calculations.
Yet I have seen very little research into this possibility that could pose a valid explanation for Earth's present climate changes.
I think there's a fairly well accepted theory that the Antarctic land ice is melting quicker, reducing the salinity of the surrounding water, which helps to freeze the surface in the winter.
Slashdot Mirror
When they get $39 million in renewable energy credits from the federal government, does it really matter what they are doing?
It matters if the scam isn't about renewable energy, but just a case of abusing subsidies as a government support program.
You also need to put subsidies in relation to the maturity of the product. The point of PV and wind subsidies is to quickly accelerate them to a point where they'd make a substantial impact. The fossil fuel market has been maturing over the last century, so they don't need subsidies anymore.
So, in addition to the standard costs of investment, like materials and installation, he's got to jack up his insurance premium too. Good to know if you're deciding to install solar.
That depends on where you live. Never in my life have I witnessed hailstorms severe enough to damage solar panels.
Presumably, if it grows, the site can be hosted on a sturdier machine and connection.
For 60sqm (more or less square yards) with 7.5kWp you pay EUR 11,250 which is roughly $8000
Current exchange rate for EUR 11520 is $12728.
Price of coal may be permanently low now.
That's only because we don't want to use it anymore.
But they claimed CSP was mature enough for Ivanpah, not a pilot or experimental project, but one that committed to delivering energy contractually. Meanwhile, many of us knew they could never deliver.
Sure, people claim a lot of things, especially when wearing suits. Now we've learned that they lied, and we won't believe them next time. There's a reason that CSP only represents 2.5% of the entire solar market.
Better let them fail, and help somebody with a better business plan. Solar energy is here to stay.
hunter2
Then, with solar panels, how about we discuss the materials and manufacturing methods as well as the material acquisition and the energy consumed in their production.
The materials used in common silicon PV panels are mostly silicon, plus some tiny bits of others. Whether you produce them in a clean or dirty way has nothing to do with the technology itself. That's purely a matter of choice and regulation, similar to mining coal or uranium, or materials for your new phone. The cost of the energy used by their production is already reflected in the price of the solar panels.
- has burned thousands of birds [eenews.net] to death.
That's less than a dozen house cats do in the same period. But seriously, some projects using new technology will fail. That's to be expected. That's how we learn what works and what doesn't.
Price of solar panels has dropped by more than 60% in the last decade, and the end is not in sight. Pretty soon the system you paid with tax breaks will cost less new without tax breaks. On the other hand, price of oil, coal and gas will go up in the future.
I'd rather make a decision that turns out to be wrong later than waffle about possible alternatives for too long
Linux was successful because most of his decisions turned out to be right. The guy is a genius.
640p is good enough for everybody.
So the first step is to start working on time travel?
The point is that this isn't new information. We've been knowing for a long time that this was going to happen. First denying it for decades, and then saying it's too late to act isn't really an inspiring strategy.
Correlation is not causation.
Agreed, but that's a pointless remark, since the mechanism behind CO2 induced warming is well understood on a physical basis. It was already understood more than a century ago, and the global warming effect was already predicted then.
- Antarctic ice is growing: (shrug) we really don't have any idea why this is happening I guess we'll just have to figure it out (shrug, again)
If you look at the volume, Antarctic ice is shrinking. There are some good theories about why the sea ice is growing, but scientist like to be careful. In any case, growing Antarctic sea ice area isn't really helping anybody, nor is it conflicting with global warming.
You know, that thing with testable and falsifiable hypotheses, which climate "science" doesn't bother with?
Nonsense. The warming over the last 40 years gives us enough data to test and falsify the hypothesis that CO2 is responsible. How much longer do you propose we wait before we draw any conclusions ? Feel free to add your calculations.
Folks have a hard time taking serious action based on this especially when we've been hearing "end of humanity within five years" for over a decade.
You accuse people of hyperbole, and yet you give the worst demonstration I've heard in a million years.
Yet I have seen very little research into this possibility that could pose a valid explanation for Earth's present climate changes.
I think there's a fairly well accepted theory that the Antarctic land ice is melting quicker, reducing the salinity of the surrounding water, which helps to freeze the surface in the winter.
Also known to be bearish on surface ice.
Polar bearish ?
What, precisely, would you like to do about that?
I suggest that 30 years ago we accelerated the building of nuclear power plants and expand the grid.
Over the last 30 years, the Arctic ice has lost about 2 million square kilometers, or about the area of Mexico or Saudi Arabia.
We're talking about 2 degrees warmer over 100 years; not global thermonuclear war son.
https://xkcd.com/1379/
The problem isn't the science behind warming it's the ridiculous solutions that are being proposed.
The problem is that half the people are denying the science, so we can't even start a proper discussion about any proposal.