For example, we ran comparison tests on KDM and GDM to figure out which program was more usable for members of our target audience.
Sounds interesting! But I can't find any data regarding that comparison. Sure, there are tests about logging in, but no data about comparing KDM and GDM.
Here you will find over 200 videos of people using Mozilla Firefox, Evolution, Open Office, Banshee, F-Spot and other applications.
3 Gnome-apps, 2 neutral apps. Where's KDE-apps? Looking at the data-section, I see this:
A test that deals with changing the background can involved things like Nautilus or GNOME Control Center
Again: Where's KDE? Going thropugh the test data I see that every single test was with Gnome. Where's KDE? So instead of being called "Better Desktop", maybe this should be called "Better Gnome" instead? then again, what can we expect from having a Gnome-guy running the show? So much for equal handling of the desktops....
Take a (non-existant) Unix only user and give them Windows. They have the same issues. Take someone fluent in spanish and transport them to India. Same problems.
Since 90+% of computer-users use Windows, I think it's only natural to look at the problems from their point of view.
Suppose TrollTech were to be bought out tomorrow, and they stopped releasing their work as open source software. While QT is open source software and could thus be forked, would the KDE project be able to muster together the talent to continue developing it?
Sure, why not? By same logic: what if Microsoft hired Linus Torvalds, Andrew Morton, Greg K-H, Con Kolivas and several other top kernel-deverlopers, would the kernel still survive? Yes it would, after a period of turmoil. I fail to see why it would be any different with KDE and Qt. And folks at TT seems to be pretty passionate about KDE, and they employ several KDE-developers directly or indirectly (Hell, KDE's founder works for TT!). Why exactly would they want to screw KDE over? Besides, TT and KDE have agreements in place for this scenario.
Seriously, I fail to see the problem here. KDE uses a GPL'ed toolkit. And everybody keeps telling how GPL eliminates vendor lock-in. But heaven forbid when we start to talk about KDE and Qt, then KDE is apparently "locked in" by TT, and TT can screw them over if they want to. And here I thought that GPL eliminated the vendor lock-in...
And what should KDE do? Re-write KDE in GTK+? Yeah right!
Has the project looked into the possibility of that happening, and if so, what are their contingency plans?
Well, they can always fork the codebase (this is open source, remember?). And they have the Free Qt-agreements that would require TT to re-license Qt under the BSD-license.
Really, worrying about TT pulling the plug on GPL'ed Qt? Since Qt is free and open source software, I fail to see the problem. Is Gnome hampered because GTK+ is developed by volunteers? No? Then why should KDE be harmed if Qt was developeb by volunteers?
But he's your customer. (well, Apple's customer, but you're taking their POV when you say "MY", because no one's saying that you, some random third party, should back up other people's music for them).
It's called customer service, look into it.
If I drive my car in to a telephone-pole would BMW (assuming I had a BMW) fix my car for free for me? Or better yet: give me a new car? No?
People do expect their mechanic to provide a certain level of service for free, though.
So if I trash my car because of my own stupidity, I could demand that my mechanic fixes the car for free, while I go have some coffee and doughnuts? If the user loses his data due to his own stupidity, I fail to see what ground he has to demand his music from Apple. there are few saying in Finland that seem applicable: "You pay for stupidity" and "Siberia teaches". Maybe next time he makes proper backups of his data?
How can you possibly not understand that it's in Apple's best interest to keep their customers happy?
I understand it just fine. But I also understand that protection of users data is the USERS responsibility.
- Everyone in the Center Party voted for the law. 18 were not present in the vote - In SDP, only two voted no, 37 voted yes. 7 were not present - 9 Conservatives voted no, 25 voted yes. seven were not present. - In Left Alliance, 11 voted no, 9 voted yes - 8 Greens voted yes, 3 voted no - In the Swedish party, everyone voted yes
What's with the "Screw you, you idiot. When bad luck befalls you, don't look at me for help!" mentality? This isn't an unreasonable request.
It's his data, not mine. It's his HD, not mine. If he loses his data because he didn't bother to make backups, I fail to see how it's MY problem. Expecting people to take proper care of their data is not an out
Why, exactly, shouldn't a person request quality service?
Because their requests are not realistic? People don't expect car-mechanics to fix their cars for free while they sleep.
Who said that they would have to support Linux? they could just ship the media with the computer. does Dell support FreeDOS? Does their hardware work with it flawlessly?
Sorry but I simply DON'T have time to "just back it up".
So, you don't have the time to back up your data, but you DO have the time to read Slashdot? Uh, I think you have your priorities mixed up.
I paid for the damn thing it should be around forever even if some craptastic BestBuy red tag special PC stops working and all the music my parents and grandparents bought is gone.
Since the data in question resides on your hard-drive, then the existence of that data relies on you. You can't assume that some magic elves come to your computer and back up YOUR data while you sleep. If you don't back up your data, and your HD dies, it's YOUR problem.
There's no reason iTunes can't let you re-download your music.
Sure there is. It costs money. And everyone would start claiming that "uh, my dog ate my HD, can I re-download the songs?". The key to safekeep your data is in YOUR hands. If you choose not to take the necessary precautions, it's your decision, and your problem.
Seriously, what is this "I want others to take responsibility of my data, and back it up for me, because I'm too lazy to do it myself!"-mentality?
Why? Because they COULD do something "evil" if they wanted to? By that logic: I could kill several people right now if I wanted to. I could grab a knife and stab my co-workers. Does that mean I'm "evil"?
How many corporations are going to start to standardize on Gmail? Not my company, and I'm happy for that.
How many companies are going to standardize on ANY webmail? Not many I guess. has any company standardized on Hotmail? Seriously, you are talking out of you ass here!
Otherwise, people will gladly give up their freedom just to see some lame company with an incredible data center suck away all of their freedom and privacy.
What are you blathering about? Since we are talking about Open Office here, I would assume that the documents would be saived in OASIS-fileformat. And I could use those documents in Open Office, Star Office or Koffice. But I could ALSO use them in this web-based office-suite! I would NOT be tied to Google Office, since the files I create would interoperate just fine with other office-suites as well.
Pray tell: what "freedom" am I giving up here? You MIGHT have a point when it comes to priovacy, bu we will see. But since no-one is forced to use this service, I fail to see the problem.
Well, you could say that Microsoft is Googles (And Suns to some extent) primary competitor. And Microsoft fuels their operation against Google with profits from MS Office (among other sources). If Google manages to attack and harm those sources of cash, they will harm MS's capability to compete with Google.
And by the way....99 a song is a JOKE. It is WAY to expensive.
ITMS requires massive amounts of bandwith, and that costs money. It requires lots and lots of hard-drive space and servers, and those cost money. Apple needs to pay to record-companies and the artists, and that costs money. They need to pay the salaries of people who run the store and the infrastructure, and that costs money. And they even have to make profit on the store as well. Apple earns few cents for every song, if they decided to not earn any profit from the songs, the price of one song would drop to about 90-95 cents.
It's interesting to see what people consider to be "Flamebait". I can understand expecting the government to publish transcripts, but this seem to be an effort by an.org/individuals, and expecting them to bend over backwards and provide transcripts is a bit much IMO. No-one would complain if there were no video/audio offered at all, but now that there is (without transcripts), people whine.
So, if someone puts a piece of video or audio on the net, they are required to provide transcripts? If I were publishing some video online and I was demanded to publish transcripts as well, I might just as well not publish anyhting, video or transcript. I would guess then everybode were happy?
No, not because we hate Microsoft or something. But cases like this might, just might make someone else besides geeks and techies think "you know, maybe these software-patents aren't such a good idea after all?"
Taskbar: GNOME has one as well. OS X has one in Dock, but it's downright crappy. Why is KDE a Windows-clone, whereas GNOME (or OS X) is not?
What exactly is the task bar for? Showing me what apps are running?
To show you what apps you have running, and access them easily. If I minimize an app, the taskbar is the quickest way to access it.
As a matter of fact, alt-tab is much, much more convenient for that
For you perhaps, but different people like different things. I for one use taskbar routinely, instead of Alt-Tab. my hand is on the mouse all the time, why should I move my hand to the keyboard if I simply want to access my apps? And about 98% of people I have seen prefer the taskbar instead of Alt-Tab. Taskbar has the advantage of being visible, whereas the user doesn't know by default that Alt-Tab even exists. Someone has to point it out for them. But with taskbar they instantly see that "Aha! When I launch an app, it goes to this thingy at the bottom of the screen!".
Start-menu: GNOME has one as well. Why is KDE a Windows-clone, whereas GNOME is not?
It sucks so hard, and is so counter-intuitive
How exactly? What's so un-intuitive about it? The default start-menu on XP does suck, but that doesn't mean that the whole concept sucks. What makes Kmenu "un-intuitive", whereas right-click menu (as found on Fluxbox and the like) is not? Only difference is that they are accessed in different way, but other than that, they serve the same function.
And when it opens, things become worse. Unsorted crap pile of every dung shit that ever hit the machine.
What do you mean by "unsorted"? On my KDE-machine, all the apps are nicely sorted to descriptive categories. And you CAN remove the apps from the menu if you want to.
seeing as how most of africa's problems are caused by white people and is still going on to this day, then yes it is your problem.
Yep, the massacre in Sudan is caused by the west. Disaster in Mozambique is caused by the west. Massacre in Rwanda was caused by the west. Damn you white people!
but they don't ask where all those weapons came from
No-one is forcing anyone to buy weapons. They choose to spend their money on weapons. It is their decision. I fail to see how you can blame the west for that. Or do you think the west are to blame if Africans want to buy weapons and we sell it to them? If you think so, then you apparently believe that it's our responsibility to protect them from their own stupidity or something? If we don't do that, we are to blame, because Africans are helpless children who couldn't manage without help from the white west?
It seems to me that feeling of superiority and racism didn't disappear. it's alive and well in people like you! It's just disquised in to "desire to help the people", but deep down you have that feeling of superiority.
I don't have any links at hand right now, but I have read studies which indicate that while Asia is developing and progressing quickly, Africa is not. While other third-world countries are reducing poverty quickly and generally improving the quality of life for their citizens, that is not happening in Africa.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were "able to build a prosperous nation" because you had a bunch of pirates who could go around and steal food and slaves from more temperate regions. It's not like you guys were making cell phones back in 2500 BC.
Finland did not practice slave-trading. There was slavery in Russia (which Finland was part of), but even there it was feudal lords subjugating the peons, not Africans. And event then, the practice was banned in Finland.
Well, at least this time it wasn't a fellow American making an ass out of himself.
So, saying that Africans are responsible for their own actions, is "making an ass out of himself"? Do you think that Africans are bunch of helpless children who couldn't manage without aid from the west? I do not think like that, but you apparently do, because you are so horrified when I claim that incentive to change Africa must come from Africans themselves, and that they have the means to do it. I could call you a racist for thinking that we are somehow superior to Africans, but I'm not going to do that.
Because the Soviets let you. If they had decided to invade you and take over your country for good (instead of just annexing a big chunk of it), you might be in the same state as Belarus or Moldova by now.
Off-topic, but.... It's not like they didn't try. They really, really did try. Of course they could have used their entire army in doing so, but that wasn't really realistic option for them.
You could might as well say that "USA is prosperous only because France let's them to be. I mean, France could nuke USA if they wanted to"
Case in point: my largest box at home (out of seven boxes) is a 256MB PPro, but the rest of my machines vary between 64MB and 192MB, with most of them still sitting at 64MB.
I'm sorry, but your machines are yesterdays hardware. You should not try to run today's software on yesterdays hardware. Like you said, your hardware runs bunch of obsolete OS'es just fine. I bet it would run DOS REALLY well. And your point is?
A 64MB PPro box running any of the above platforms is perfectly capable of running a browser like FireFox 1.0.7 very quickly
So, because it runs a web-browser well, you then expect it to run a full-blown modern desktop-environment with all the bells and whistles? Uh, OK....
Newer versions of KDE seem to growing (in terms of resource usage) at a very fast rate, and the desktop looks like it's gaining all kinds of visual candy, but I still can't get as much functionality out of KDE as I could out of OS/2, and its WorkPlace Shell was quite usable on a 16MB machine!!! One wonders, quite frankly, where all that space is going. Eye candy?
Of course old OS'es require less resources! Hell, I bet that back in OS/2-times, 16MB was A LOT! You simply can't compare an ancient OS to something as modern as KDE, and then proclaim that KDE "wastes resources". Is OS X a pig, because the original Mac OS worked in machines that had only tiny fraction of modern Macs performance?
What consumes performance? Well, resolutions have increased, widgets have gotten better-looking, systems have more functionality built-in (KDE for example has a system-wide spell-checker), color-depths have increased, icons looks better etc. etc. Systems have simply progressed. It is absolutely pointless to compare some obsolete OS to modern system and proclaim "this system ran just fine on 16MB of RAM, the modern system is bloated!".
Instead of complaining about how slow KDE (or any other system for that matter) is, get on with the times and buy at least semi-modern computer. They are not that expensive these days.
Slashdot Mirror
Sounds interesting! But I can't find any data regarding that comparison. Sure, there are tests about logging in, but no data about comparing KDM and GDM.
3 Gnome-apps, 2 neutral apps. Where's KDE-apps? Looking at the data-section, I see this:
Again: Where's KDE? Going thropugh the test data I see that every single test was with Gnome. Where's KDE? So instead of being called "Better Desktop", maybe this should be called "Better Gnome" instead? then again, what can we expect from having a Gnome-guy running the show? So much for equal handling of the desktops....
Since 90+% of computer-users use Windows, I think it's only natural to look at the problems from their point of view.
Sure, why not? By same logic: what if Microsoft hired Linus Torvalds, Andrew Morton, Greg K-H, Con Kolivas and several other top kernel-deverlopers, would the kernel still survive? Yes it would, after a period of turmoil. I fail to see why it would be any different with KDE and Qt. And folks at TT seems to be pretty passionate about KDE, and they employ several KDE-developers directly or indirectly (Hell, KDE's founder works for TT!). Why exactly would they want to screw KDE over? Besides, TT and KDE have agreements in place for this scenario.
Seriously, I fail to see the problem here. KDE uses a GPL'ed toolkit. And everybody keeps telling how GPL eliminates vendor lock-in. But heaven forbid when we start to talk about KDE and Qt, then KDE is apparently "locked in" by TT, and TT can screw them over if they want to. And here I thought that GPL eliminated the vendor lock-in...
And what should KDE do? Re-write KDE in GTK+? Yeah right!
Well, they can always fork the codebase (this is open source, remember?). And they have the Free Qt-agreements that would require TT to re-license Qt under the BSD-license.
Really, worrying about TT pulling the plug on GPL'ed Qt? Since Qt is free and open source software, I fail to see the problem. Is Gnome hampered because GTK+ is developed by volunteers? No? Then why should KDE be harmed if Qt was developeb by volunteers?
If I drive my car in to a telephone-pole would BMW (assuming I had a BMW) fix my car for free for me? Or better yet: give me a new car? No?
So if I trash my car because of my own stupidity, I could demand that my mechanic fixes the car for free, while I go have some coffee and doughnuts? If the user loses his data due to his own stupidity, I fail to see what ground he has to demand his music from Apple. there are few saying in Finland that seem applicable: "You pay for stupidity" and "Siberia teaches". Maybe next time he makes proper backups of his data?
I understand it just fine. But I also understand that protection of users data is the USERS responsibility.
List how the MP's voted is here.
Of note:
- Everyone in the Center Party voted for the law. 18 were not present in the vote
- In SDP, only two voted no, 37 voted yes. 7 were not present
- 9 Conservatives voted no, 25 voted yes. seven were not present.
- In Left Alliance, 11 voted no, 9 voted yes
- 8 Greens voted yes, 3 voted no
- In the Swedish party, everyone voted yes
Remember these results during the next election.
It's his data, not mine. It's his HD, not mine. If he loses his data because he didn't bother to make backups, I fail to see how it's MY problem. Expecting people to take proper care of their data is not an out
Because their requests are not realistic? People don't expect car-mechanics to fix their cars for free while they sleep.
people don't expect their cars to automatically repair themselves, why do they expect something different when it comes to computers?
And that's a bad thing because.....?
Who said that they would have to support Linux? they could just ship the media with the computer. does Dell support FreeDOS? Does their hardware work with it flawlessly?
Last time I checked, Linux DOES have "tons of software".
Apple is more or less breaking even with ITMS. I wouldn't call that "doing INCREDIBLY well".
So, you don't have the time to back up your data, but you DO have the time to read Slashdot? Uh, I think you have your priorities mixed up.
Since the data in question resides on your hard-drive, then the existence of that data relies on you. You can't assume that some magic elves come to your computer and back up YOUR data while you sleep. If you don't back up your data, and your HD dies, it's YOUR problem.
Sure there is. It costs money. And everyone would start claiming that "uh, my dog ate my HD, can I re-download the songs?". The key to safekeep your data is in YOUR hands. If you choose not to take the necessary precautions, it's your decision, and your problem.
Seriously, what is this "I want others to take responsibility of my data, and back it up for me, because I'm too lazy to do it myself!"-mentality?
Why? Because they COULD do something "evil" if they wanted to? By that logic: I could kill several people right now if I wanted to. I could grab a knife and stab my co-workers. Does that mean I'm "evil"?
How many companies are going to standardize on ANY webmail? Not many I guess. has any company standardized on Hotmail? Seriously, you are talking out of you ass here!
What are you blathering about? Since we are talking about Open Office here, I would assume that the documents would be saived in OASIS-fileformat. And I could use those documents in Open Office, Star Office or Koffice. But I could ALSO use them in this web-based office-suite! I would NOT be tied to Google Office, since the files I create would interoperate just fine with other office-suites as well.
Pray tell: what "freedom" am I giving up here? You MIGHT have a point when it comes to priovacy, bu we will see. But since no-one is forced to use this service, I fail to see the problem.
Well, you could say that Microsoft is Googles (And Suns to some extent) primary competitor. And Microsoft fuels their operation against Google with profits from MS Office (among other sources). If Google manages to attack and harm those sources of cash, they will harm MS's capability to compete with Google.
Go talk to your legislators about that. there's very little Apple can do there.
ITMS requires massive amounts of bandwith, and that costs money. It requires lots and lots of hard-drive space and servers, and those cost money. Apple needs to pay to record-companies and the artists, and that costs money. They need to pay the salaries of people who run the store and the infrastructure, and that costs money. And they even have to make profit on the store as well. Apple earns few cents for every song, if they decided to not earn any profit from the songs, the price of one song would drop to about 90-95 cents.
It's interesting to see what people consider to be "Flamebait". I can understand expecting the government to publish transcripts, but this seem to be an effort by an .org/individuals, and expecting them to bend over backwards and provide transcripts is a bit much IMO. No-one would complain if there were no video/audio offered at all, but now that there is (without transcripts), people whine.
So, if someone puts a piece of video or audio on the net, they are required to provide transcripts? If I were publishing some video online and I was demanded to publish transcripts as well, I might just as well not publish anyhting, video or transcript. I would guess then everybode were happy?
No, not because we hate Microsoft or something. But cases like this might, just might make someone else besides geeks and techies think "you know, maybe these software-patents aren't such a good idea after all?"
To show you what apps you have running, and access them easily. If I minimize an app, the taskbar is the quickest way to access it.
For you perhaps, but different people like different things. I for one use taskbar routinely, instead of Alt-Tab. my hand is on the mouse all the time, why should I move my hand to the keyboard if I simply want to access my apps? And about 98% of people I have seen prefer the taskbar instead of Alt-Tab. Taskbar has the advantage of being visible, whereas the user doesn't know by default that Alt-Tab even exists. Someone has to point it out for them. But with taskbar they instantly see that "Aha! When I launch an app, it goes to this thingy at the bottom of the screen!".
Start-menu: GNOME has one as well. Why is KDE a Windows-clone, whereas GNOME is not?
How exactly? What's so un-intuitive about it? The default start-menu on XP does suck, but that doesn't mean that the whole concept sucks. What makes Kmenu "un-intuitive", whereas right-click menu (as found on Fluxbox and the like) is not? Only difference is that they are accessed in different way, but other than that, they serve the same function.
What do you mean by "unsorted"? On my KDE-machine, all the apps are nicely sorted to descriptive categories. And you CAN remove the apps from the menu if you want to.
Yep, the massacre in Sudan is caused by the west. Disaster in Mozambique is caused by the west. Massacre in Rwanda was caused by the west. Damn you white people!
No-one is forcing anyone to buy weapons. They choose to spend their money on weapons. It is their decision. I fail to see how you can blame the west for that. Or do you think the west are to blame if Africans want to buy weapons and we sell it to them? If you think so, then you apparently believe that it's our responsibility to protect them from their own stupidity or something? If we don't do that, we are to blame, because Africans are helpless children who couldn't manage without help from the white west?
It seems to me that feeling of superiority and racism didn't disappear. it's alive and well in people like you! It's just disquised in to "desire to help the people", but deep down you have that feeling of superiority.
I don't have any links at hand right now, but I have read studies which indicate that while Asia is developing and progressing quickly, Africa is not. While other third-world countries are reducing poverty quickly and generally improving the quality of life for their citizens, that is not happening in Africa.
Finland did not practice slave-trading. There was slavery in Russia (which Finland was part of), but even there it was feudal lords subjugating the peons, not Africans. And event then, the practice was banned in Finland.
So, saying that Africans are responsible for their own actions, is "making an ass out of himself"? Do you think that Africans are bunch of helpless children who couldn't manage without aid from the west? I do not think like that, but you apparently do, because you are so horrified when I claim that incentive to change Africa must come from Africans themselves, and that they have the means to do it. I could call you a racist for thinking that we are somehow superior to Africans, but I'm not going to do that.
Off-topic, but.... It's not like they didn't try. They really, really did try. Of course they could have used their entire army in doing so, but that wasn't really realistic option for them.
You could might as well say that "USA is prosperous only because France let's them to be. I mean, France could nuke USA if they wanted to"
I'm sorry, but your machines are yesterdays hardware. You should not try to run today's software on yesterdays hardware. Like you said, your hardware runs bunch of obsolete OS'es just fine. I bet it would run DOS REALLY well. And your point is?
So, because it runs a web-browser well, you then expect it to run a full-blown modern desktop-environment with all the bells and whistles? Uh, OK....
Of course old OS'es require less resources! Hell, I bet that back in OS/2-times, 16MB was A LOT! You simply can't compare an ancient OS to something as modern as KDE, and then proclaim that KDE "wastes resources". Is OS X a pig, because the original Mac OS worked in machines that had only tiny fraction of modern Macs performance?
What consumes performance? Well, resolutions have increased, widgets have gotten better-looking, systems have more functionality built-in (KDE for example has a system-wide spell-checker), color-depths have increased, icons looks better etc. etc. Systems have simply progressed. It is absolutely pointless to compare some obsolete OS to modern system and proclaim "this system ran just fine on 16MB of RAM, the modern system is bloated!".
Instead of complaining about how slow KDE (or any other system for that matter) is, get on with the times and buy at least semi-modern computer. They are not that expensive these days.