It is NOT the Linux effort. Tons of software included in your average distro was not written specifically for Linux and, frankly has nothing to do with this OS.
If you wanted to compare it that way, you would have to include all the commercial and free software available for Windows.
Whoa, the numbers there would be scary...
"If Microsoft, an enemy of freedom, uses BSD code, then BSD programmers are working for Microsoft. "
An enemy of freedom?
What if I declared RMS an archenemy of freedom?
Would you consider me a lunatic?
If you start with that kind of assumption then we have no common ground to even begin reasonable dispute.
You live in a different world.
PS.
If "BS" offended you so much, I will gladly take it back.
Pharmaceutical companies save lives ( they do , I have seen it happen.)
High Technology companies create useful devices, which you and me are using to communicate and do many other things. Military/Industrial companies provide products, which are vital in preserving our freedom.
What has our friend Nader done recently beyond proposing redressed version of socialized economy?
"Do you think that a University with such complete disregard for the students will have any problems being owned by corporations? "
For the very long time Universities were NOT funded at all by federal or state goverment yet they managed to advance knowledge just fine.
"It's a corporate dominated world. Good things only happen incidentally. "
Yeah and you are part of this world. Corporations are people.
"systematically lied and repressed evidence about the dangers and harms of smoking. "
Oh, please. Warnings about dangers of smoking were present on tobacco products for the last 30 years. Anyone who smoked for the last 30 years had plenty of information about what he got him/herself into.
"knee-jerk need to defend the powerful against moral censure. I don't get it."
How is it different from compulsive and irrational need for bashing and accusing the powerful, which is so common among people like you?
"The situation is closely related to political lobbying. Sure 99% of the time the politician was going to vote that way anyway, and the money didn't really sway him, so no vote was really bought, was it? (nudge nudge wink wink) "
You missing the point. Lobbying is legal to avoid illegal contributions and bribes over which we would have no control at all (assuming we would know about it in the first place.)
Don't be fooled. Europeans don't have lobbying laws but the only difference between them and us is that we know who pays and who receives, while they learn about it when on of their politicians ends up in jail.
"and begin interfering with culture, politics, technology and science, "
Heheheh.
You are joking aren't you?
Technology? Science?
Frankly, you are fool to even suggest that advances made in the last 100 years have nothing to do with private enterprise.
Have you missed lesson from Soviet Union?
They enjoyed economy 100% fueled by government-sponsored research.
.
Still, in the last century great majority of inventions and discoveries in this industry was performed by commercial organization so I see no reason to believe some alarmist who, frankly, don't have such a good record in the first place.
"and there is no convincing evidence that it even exists - but the majority of researchers in the AIDS field "believe" in the HIV-AIDS hypothesis because it is profitable to do so."
And why we should believe you instead of majority compromised of seasoned professionals?
Just because it makes quite provocative thought?
What's wrong with tobacco companies?
Most of you are opposed to war on drugs citing personal responsibility and human nature as the main reasons for futility of this fight, yet you are first to disregard these factors when it comes to tobacco industry: everything becomes their fault and you are eager to enroll government in your fight against this industry.
"Also, the original observation about using BSD code to remove someone else's freedom would be better stated as using BSD code to produce software that isn't free. "
Precisely. It does not bother me nor does it seem to bother many people who contributed their work using BSD license.
What bothers me is claims made by people support GPL that somehow our approach is less "free" and we are basically doing harm to the cause (whatever it might be) by allowing ourselves to be "ripped off" by commercial entities.
"It is not a "sad thing" when somebody exercises their right not to have children."
Of course, but by the same token there is nothing wrong with extending helpful hand to people who chose to have children.
Unless you are fucking miserable selfish bastard who absolutely doesn't give a fuck about anybody else...
OK. I made simple mental mistake ( BTW. I am not American, I was born and educated in one of fine European countries.)
You corrected my mistake. Thank you.
But where is your answer to my post ?
"Well, so what. It never should have been that way. "
Why not? Because RMS woke up one day and said so?
How is it different from pair of shoes?
Both took some serious effort and planning to produce.
"And last I checked, the RedHat labs developers were getting paid. "
Yeah, so do Government workers. Does it mean that if all economical assets were owned and operated by Government these workers would still make as much money?
Judging by examples in former Eastern Europe, I hardly doubt it.
That's the problem. FSF proposes new sets of business ethics which they claim to be more just etc...
MS and Gates are disputing it explaining that this change would cause incredible loses to the industry and in effect would cause more problems for people than it is worth.
Frankly, I am more inclined to believe Gates since FSF history in dealing with business matters is rather slim.
BTW. Please don't compare our current business rules with selling crack.
It is RMS and his relatively small group of supporters claiming that world has gone mad.
In cases like that usually world turns out to be doing just fine and the problem lies with people on the other side of the argument.
"I went into your backyard, nicked the tomatoes that you had grown and toiled over for a long time, then I cleaned them off and sold them on the corner. It's just wrong."
Remember, FSF claims that their stuff is free so your analogy should be amended to reflect this.
How about: you went into my backyard and there was a sign "free tomatoes- take it."
If you took them and sold on the corner would you be surprised if one day I showed up at your door and accused you of being a thief and dishonest person?
Oh stop it.
Free means free.
Again, if I give you something for free (meaning freedom not "free beer") you can do anything you want with it, including selling it for profit.
On the other hand if I give you something for free but with some restrictions ( just like GPL does) I am giving you equivalent of "free beer" not freedom.
Stop lying.
I can't even install Mosaic on my current machine ( it craps with GPF every time) but I have no problem running and using IE.
Have you even seen or used Mosaic ?
That's the problem. People claim LGPL as a one of the highlights of GPL but even RMS want's to get rid of it.
Frankly, he is NOT for continuing relationship with commercial world. He is deadly serious in his desire to replace any trace of commercialism with his freedom of GPL.
How can you expect business people to extend their hand to a guy who basically wants their world to disappear.
Slashdot Mirror
It is NOT the Linux effort. Tons of software included in your average distro was not written specifically for Linux and, frankly has nothing to do with this OS. ...
If you wanted to compare it that way, you would have to include all the commercial and free software available for Windows.
Whoa, the numbers there would be scary
"was finding out that I got 1.075 billion dollars worth of software for a paltry $79.95."
No, you did not.
It is worth $79.95 ( and for people who decide to download it off the net it is even less.)
There is nothing revolutionary there.
Frankly, show me one usefull feature on RH distribution that hasn't been done before ?
Plenty of choice here as well.
For example one of the best "smaller" databases available Sybase SQL-Anywhere is being sold for Linux.
"If Microsoft, an enemy of freedom, uses BSD code, then BSD programmers are working for Microsoft. "
An enemy of freedom?
What if I declared RMS an archenemy of freedom?
Would you consider me a lunatic?
If you start with that kind of assumption then we have no common ground to even begin reasonable dispute.
You live in a different world.
PS.
If "BS" offended you so much, I will gladly take it back.
You know what?
Pharmaceutical companies save lives ( they do , I have seen it happen.)
High Technology companies create useful devices, which you and me are using to communicate and do many other things. Military/Industrial companies provide products, which are vital in preserving our freedom.
What has our friend Nader done recently beyond proposing redressed version of socialized economy?
"Do you think that a University with such complete disregard for the students will have any problems being owned by corporations? "
For the very long time Universities were NOT funded at all by federal or state goverment yet they managed to advance knowledge just fine.
"It's a corporate dominated world. Good things only happen incidentally. "
Yeah and you are part of this world. Corporations are people.
There was no federal funding prior to 1930 yet somehow our universities and economy at large managed to survive just fine.
"systematically lied and repressed evidence about the dangers and harms of smoking. "
Oh, please. Warnings about dangers of smoking were present on tobacco products for the last 30 years. Anyone who smoked for the last 30 years had plenty of information about what he got him/herself into.
"knee-jerk need to defend the powerful against moral censure. I don't get it."
How is it different from compulsive and irrational need for bashing and accusing the powerful, which is so common among people like you?
"Go away"
.. This site is about NEW for Nerds !
What kind of advice is that ?
BTW
"The situation is closely related to political lobbying. Sure 99% of the time the politician was going to vote that way anyway, and the money didn't really sway him, so no vote was really bought, was it? (nudge nudge wink wink) "
You missing the point. Lobbying is legal to avoid illegal contributions and bribes over which we would have no control at all (assuming we would know about it in the first place.)
Don't be fooled. Europeans don't have lobbying laws but the only difference between them and us is that we know who pays and who receives, while they learn about it when on of their politicians ends up in jail.
"and begin interfering with culture, politics, technology and science, "
Heheheh.
You are joking aren't you?
Technology? Science?
Frankly, you are fool to even suggest that advances made in the last 100 years have nothing to do with private enterprise.
Have you missed lesson from Soviet Union?
They enjoyed economy 100% fueled by government-sponsored research.
.
Dude but this has nothing to do with corporations.
It is strictly integrity problem among academics.
Still, in the last century great majority of inventions and discoveries in this industry was performed by commercial organization so I see no reason to believe some alarmist who, frankly, don't have such a good record in the first place.
"and there is no convincing evidence that it even exists - but the majority of researchers in the AIDS field "believe" in the HIV-AIDS hypothesis because it is profitable to do so."
And why we should believe you instead of majority compromised of seasoned professionals?
Just because it makes quite provocative thought?
What's wrong with tobacco companies?
Most of you are opposed to war on drugs citing personal responsibility and human nature as the main reasons for futility of this fight, yet you are first to disregard these factors when it comes to tobacco industry: everything becomes their fault and you are eager to enroll government in your fight against this industry.
"To say he lost for lack of substance is to imply that Bush The First offered some. As I recall, he didn't."
Sure he did. Continuation of Reagan policies (which was more than fine with me.)
Too bad he failed to deliver that promise.
"Also, the original observation about using BSD code to remove someone else's freedom would be better stated as using BSD code to produce software that isn't free. "
Precisely. It does not bother me nor does it seem to bother many people who contributed their work using BSD license.
What bothers me is claims made by people support GPL that somehow our approach is less "free" and we are basically doing harm to the cause (whatever it might be) by allowing ourselves to be "ripped off" by commercial entities.
"It is not a "sad thing" when somebody exercises their right not to have children."
...
Of course, but by the same token there is nothing wrong with extending helpful hand to people who chose to have children.
Unless you are fucking miserable selfish bastard who absolutely doesn't give a fuck about anybody else
OK. I made simple mental mistake ( BTW. I am not American, I was born and educated in one of fine European countries.)
You corrected my mistake. Thank you.
But where is your answer to my post ?
"Well, so what. It never should have been that way. "
Why not? Because RMS woke up one day and said so?
How is it different from pair of shoes?
Both took some serious effort and planning to produce.
"And last I checked, the RedHat labs developers were getting paid. "
Yeah, so do Government workers. Does it mean that if all economical assets were owned and operated by Government these workers would still make as much money?
Judging by examples in former Eastern Europe, I hardly doubt it.
That's the problem. FSF proposes new sets of business ethics which they claim to be more just etc ...
MS and Gates are disputing it explaining that this change would cause incredible loses to the industry and in effect would cause more problems for people than it is worth.
Frankly, I am more inclined to believe Gates since FSF history in dealing with business matters is rather slim.
BTW. Please don't compare our current business rules with selling crack.
It is RMS and his relatively small group of supporters claiming that world has gone mad.
In cases like that usually world turns out to be doing just fine and the problem lies with people on the other side of the argument.
"I went into your backyard, nicked the tomatoes that you had grown and toiled over for a long time, then I cleaned them off and sold them on the corner. It's just wrong."
."
Remember, FSF claims that their stuff is free so your analogy should be amended to reflect this.
How about: you went into my backyard and there was a sign "free tomatoes- take it
If you took them and sold on the corner would you be surprised if one day I showed up at your door and accused you of being a thief and dishonest person?
Oh stop it.
Free means free.
Again, if I give you something for free (meaning freedom not "free beer") you can do anything you want with it, including selling it for profit.
On the other hand if I give you something for free but with some restrictions ( just like GPL does) I am giving you equivalent of "free beer" not freedom.
Stop lying.
I can't even install Mosaic on my current machine ( it craps with GPF every time) but I have no problem running and using IE.
Have you even seen or used Mosaic ?
That's the problem. People claim LGPL as a one of the highlights of GPL but even RMS want's to get rid of it.
Frankly, he is NOT for continuing relationship with commercial world. He is deadly serious in his desire to replace any trace of commercialism with his freedom of GPL.
How can you expect business people to extend their hand to a guy who basically wants their world to disappear.