Ok, so I'm not going to get into the whole question of who has the high ground in this one. Both sides look like they are doing some things I support and others that I don't support so I can't possibly make any sense out of this. I'm against censorship but I am for fair use. This ones a pickle.
What I am wondering though is how long before Walmart decides to start carrying "E" rated titles and if something of that manner should happen then could there come a time when enough of those moral and god-fearing retailers are carrying only "E" rated versions of movies that I have hard time finding the full version and what does that mean in the long run? That's what has me thinking about this.
It's a small thing really but what could it lead to if it's given the blessing and allowed to continue?
At around $999 and bumping the eMac down to where the old CRT iMac is now. Cube looked sweet and all I agree but it wasn't worth what they were charging for it.
The kind of people who were going to pay that for a computer mostly wanted more computer and a lot of the people who would have loved one weren't interested or able to pay what Apple was asking.
Excellent point. A lot of us have seen one version or another of this set of instructions. The one I happen to remember did not mention blowing any air out of the room. It did point out that you needed to get the air very moist but not enough so that it created condensation on anything and everything. Not sure of what a difference making the floating particles moist would be (maybe they then drop to the floor?) but even my simple mind can see that the air that leaves has to be replaced with something.
Maybe you could get one of those ridiculously expensive filters that catches everything possible and set things up so that the only air that could enter the room would come through the filter when you blow the air out?
I'll never bother to try it though so it's all just mental masturbation anyway.
You read it again and then as another poster said find me a legitimate use for P2P that overshadows the illegitimate uses. Disregard his numbers (99? 1?) and get to his point. Tell me one thing anyone is doing with this technology that doesn't involve stealing someone elses stuff and you have a case.
If you can't then you are just like the person who originally moded the first post "Troll" and are simply enjoying the free music, files, and movies far too much to have an unbiased opinion.
And yeah, it's starting to look a little like all Palestinians are terrorists. If they aren't now they will be in a few more decades if something doesn't change over there and in the way we look at things over here.
Re:Let's Get Back Our Access to the Courts
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Copyright as Cudgel
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· Score: 1
No, you done "SEE" them doing it. You don't see a lot of things but then do the democrats have a base of supporters who want to see this? Of course not. They have to maintain face. The republicans on the other hand do have a large number of people in their corner who want to SEE this so that's the face they show. It's also not much different from the one the democrats keep hidden.
Both groups are beholden to someone other than the common man. It's just a different group but their objectives are awful similar.
Re:Let's Get Back Our Access to the Courts
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Copyright as Cudgel
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· Score: 1
Keep in mind that Big Business has just as many "minions" on the left as it does on the right. Anyone who thinks they are on the "good" side in the Left vs. Right battle in our country has lost sight of the problem.
Troll my ass. It's an interesting point that would make an excellent start for a discussion.
It's true to a large extent and worth talking about. This post was dismissed as a troll because the person doing the moderating disagreed with posters position. Typical in here.
I too often find myself in awe of the way the writers over at The Onion handle the many details involved in writing such stories as "80s Retro Craze Sweeps Executive Branch" and "Canadian Girlfriend Unsubstantiated".
How do you deal with something like that? How do you ingest the information necessary to write something as complicated and far reaching as that? The ramifications of writing an article titled "Study Reveals: Babies are Stupid" are mind boggling to say the least. Clearly these kinds of stories should not be confused with the writings of a sarcastic glib critic. These stories clearly require the ability to "deal with the devil in the details".
Thought about it after the earlier reply and decided to do it again. The thing about it is that IMO the guy can actually write. It's crude and it's juvenile but it's funny material.
Like I said, obviously that's open to interpretation. I'm still trying to figure out what movie the people plugging the new Austin Powers movie on IMDB saw. The one I watched was pretty bad and only had a couple of scenes that worked.
THe Onion and SatireWire are good. I like them both a great deal but I think the funniest site out there has to be Seanbaby. The stories on "The Probe" are hilarious and his Super Friends page is some seriously funny shit.
Obviously where humor is concerned it's all subjective.
http://www.seanbaby.com for the 4 people out there who haven't actually seen the site.
If you haven't already been there (and you probably have) I think Seanbaby.com is some amazingly funny stuff. His SuperFriends page is pretty much the high point of the site but "The Probe" is also pretty damned good.
I've been reading sentences like "all the faults you mentioned will be fixed in a year or two" for what's starting to close in on a decade. What I wouldn't give for that to have been the case. We might have a ballgame here then.
Oh man, no I don't lose any sleep over communism. And I don't really think of myself as against Linux. I mean, I own about 6 different distros that I can see from where I'm sitting. Sure there are more around the place but I'm not going to go dig out my Red Hat 5.2 to prove a point. I bought them all too out of a desire to see them succeed. I use Red Hat 7.3 now in my PC which sits next to my Mac and suffers greatly in comparison.
I just think the hurdles to be jumped to really get a significant number of people to go for the OS are impressive and shouldn't be taken lightly. It does keep getting better and better but then so do the established OS's so you must measure the gain accordingly. I read a comment in here where someone stated that Linux might just be farther behind Windows now than it was a couple of years back and that's worth pondering for a moment.
To the user who goes in and picks up a new Gateway, HP, or eMachine Windows is free too. It's included in the price of their computer and that perception isn't going to budge. It's wrong and the more informed people out there understand it but majority of them don't and don't care. They think their PC is cheaper than the one they bought 4 years ago and has more "stuff" in it than the old one did. That's really all that matters.
I can't see how you don't think changing peoples minds is important in this equation. It's their mindset that keeps them in the "program" and keeps them from considering alternatives. Sure if their computers break they won't know how to reinstall or work with them because it was made easy for them but most of them know that the people who made it easy for them (and this is a laugh) are Microsoft.
Get them to see that someone else can make it even easier for them (like Apple is trying to do, now there is a company that knows the need to change peoples perceptions of them) and then you might have a chance to attract some "joe users".
This just seems like another rambling bitch about something that doesn't need fixing from someone who doesn't understand what the average person does with their computer.
You don't need to reinvent the GUI or take it to some higher level. Well maybe "you" do but they don't and they won't follow you there. They want an appliance that does what a computer does.
It can't be limited like the cheesy little internet appliances and it can't be flaky like a computer is either. They want it to work like their friggin TV and do everything that their computer can do and they don't care what OS is on it or who feeds them their news and advertising.
They don't want the free thinking and open internet they want AOL. They don't want better they want the same thing that other guy has so they can play games with him and trade songs with him and download porn from him. It has to be the same as his because if they can't figure out how to do something they are going to ask him for help.
This is like a battle to win the hearts and minds of a bunch of people who don't feel passionate about the subject and don't want to put any thought into the questions.
To become what they want Linux will have to either change into something you don't want or split into two almost completely different forms to accomodate you both.
That's what you get for being a fetus during the NES boom days! It's the breaks kid. I sure would have liked to have been around back when they were making those 63' split window vettes too and I would have loved to have been able to buy one brand new off the show room floor.
Instead I wasn't around then so I didn't get the chance to do it. I can still BUY one and restore it though. I just don't get to steal the parts to make it run.
That both lag behind the target and even farther behind the real leader in the catagory, OSX
2. Solid productivity apps
That due to marketing from the 800lb gorilla and the considerable lead they have in this area no one wants to use outside of the faithful.
3. Good support for multimedia
That again lags behind the target. Unless you can match or exceed the ability that the average Windows user has to either just click and open darned near anything they want or at the most go get the plugin to do so you aren't there yet.
4. An amazing Web browser (or several, depending on taste and definition)
Granted. In this one area things are right with the world. Still it should be understood that when you are hanging in there by one thin thread it's simple enough to cut it. All it would take would be one well placed "enhanced standard" to put this right back to lagging behind the established leader.
Easy point-and-click installation
Not from someones point of view who has spent the last few years installing programs in Windows or Mac OS. Even Red Carpet would draw a baffled "Huh?" from them.
GUI admin tools
Finally. Thank God!
I really do agree with you that things have come miles from where we were but the odds are so long and the lead is so great that it's a little overwhelming if you think about it too much. The lead isn't so much in the software but rather in the mind. Being better isn't going to be enough but I think it might be all this movement can manage. Not shabby by any means but changing minds is going to take some help and a different approach. A fumble or two from MS might also be needed.
But it's kind of obvious that most people have a tendency to standardize on one particular application that they get comfortable with to perform a given task. You don't think that Wordperfect is a completely incapable word processor do you? Of course you don't. It's a nice program for writing BUT most people have M$ Word (or it's bastard cousin in MS Works) lodged firmly in their minds when they get ready to type up a document and that's why Wordperfect is barely registering a pulse these days. Same thing goes for every single other type of application that you could say "a majority of people use".
There is an obvious bridge that Linux on the desktop needs to cross in order to not be "dead on the desktop" and a lot of the people who love it now will bemoan the state of things if and when it comes to pass. The 10,000 programs that get dropped on a new user are going to have to be pared down to a handful of front runners for "most people".
I like the often repeated suggestion of having a standard, basic, newbie, whatever install that does this and the alternative install that gives you the whole enchilada.
That would go a long way towards getting things pointed in the right direction.
But it's a moot point anyway because whatever gets done with Linux for the desktop OSX will have done it first and in all likelyhood done it better. At least from the average person/user perspective.
>You certainly have a tradeoff on where/how that pollution will get into the air, but reduce it? Sorry, that part of the dream you don't get to keep.
And just why not? I mean, it's my screwed up fantasy world we're talking about right?
Obviously we are going to have to invent some previously unimagined completely clean and ridiculously powerful new energy source roughly 20 minutes (give or take a minute or two) before we get those teleporters online.
See, while I'm dreaming there's nothing I can't do. Now reality is another thing entirely.
I agree with the majority of your point except
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Borrowing ROMs
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I don't understand why any media industry should view us as citizens and not consumers? I mean, the government (on local, state, and federal levels here in the US) should see you as a citizen. That makes sense. The media is as you say an industry and being an industry they are all about making a profit.
It's what they do. It's pretty much all they should be doing. They have to obey the law (or at least in theory they do)and should be doing that too granted, but for crying out loud, if the people who are trying to sell you things can't look at you as consumers without pissing you off then how is anyone going to make a buck in this world?
I would think that a member of any media industry that didn't view you as a consumer or potential consumer would not be around very long.
I think you might have some of that crappy argument syndrome as well. I mean, you aren't building a replacement part are you? You have every right to write yourself a game if you are that into the platform. but you didn't write this game. You don't own this game. You never owned this game.
You "owned" the right to use a copy of this game for the period of time that the manufacturer stated that it would last. Nothing more really.
But I will conceed that it's kind of close to the mark. I mean, really what rights do you have once someone has quit supporting that "thing" you bought...a decade ago?
People complaining that they have some kind of bizarre right to these ROMs are just plain nuts. You HAD a right to go out and buy the crap out of them when they were on the market. No one would have stopped you if you wanted to buy every single one you could get your hands on correct? Now you HAVE the right to go digging around trying to find old and working used ones "on the market". That's pretty much all the rights you have in this.
Now if these companies want to share their older games with the people who gave them money back in the day that's cool and I'm going to that website tonight to get all my favorite old games. I'm going to get some I don't even like just to be a glutton and because I can.
I can, but it's not a "right". I can because the owners allow it.
Of course they haven't allowed it so I'm not going to download squat tonight but you get my point.
You want to swipe some ROMs and enjoy your favorite old games fine. Knock yourself out. But remember it's not it's not your right to do so.
I think it's really simple
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Borrowing ROMs
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Those vaults full of IP that they aren't selling but aren't letting go of are just their for them to mine away at when they are lacking in original new ideas for games. Look at the Mario or Zelda games. They've got franchises there that roll the $$$ in and don't think for a moment that they don't drag through the old games from time to time looking to recreate that magic with other lesser known titles.
Slashdot Mirror
Ok, so I'm not going to get into the whole question of who has the high ground in this one. Both sides look like they are doing some things I support and others that I don't support so I can't possibly make any sense out of this. I'm against censorship but I am for fair use. This ones a pickle.
What I am wondering though is how long before Walmart decides to start carrying "E" rated titles and if something of that manner should happen then could there come a time when enough of those moral and god-fearing retailers are carrying only "E" rated versions of movies that I have hard time finding the full version and what does that mean in the long run? That's what has me thinking about this.
It's a small thing really but what could it lead to if it's given the blessing and allowed to continue?
At around $999 and bumping the eMac down to where the old CRT iMac is now. Cube looked sweet and all I agree but it wasn't worth what they were charging for it.
The kind of people who were going to pay that for a computer mostly wanted more computer and a lot of the people who would have loved one weren't interested or able to pay what Apple was asking.
Excellent point. A lot of us have seen one version or another of this set of instructions. The one I happen to remember did not mention blowing any air out of the room. It did point out that you needed to get the air very moist but not enough so that it created condensation on anything and everything. Not sure of what a difference making the floating particles moist would be (maybe they then drop to the floor?) but even my simple mind can see that the air that leaves has to be replaced with something.
Maybe you could get one of those ridiculously expensive filters that catches everything possible and set things up so that the only air that could enter the room would come through the filter when you blow the air out?
I'll never bother to try it though so it's all just mental masturbation anyway.
Looks like a still. That boy making Moonshine?
You read it again and then as another poster said find me a legitimate use for P2P that overshadows the illegitimate uses. Disregard his numbers (99? 1?) and get to his point. Tell me one thing anyone is doing with this technology that doesn't involve stealing someone elses stuff and you have a case.
If you can't then you are just like the person who originally moded the first post "Troll" and are simply enjoying the free music, files, and movies far too much to have an unbiased opinion.
And yeah, it's starting to look a little like all Palestinians are terrorists. If they aren't now they will be in a few more decades if something doesn't change over there and in the way we look at things over here.
No, you done "SEE" them doing it. You don't see a lot of things but then do the democrats have a base of supporters who want to see this? Of course not. They have to maintain face. The republicans on the other hand do have a large number of people in their corner who want to SEE this so that's the face they show. It's also not much different from the one the democrats keep hidden.
Both groups are beholden to someone other than the common man. It's just a different group but their objectives are awful similar.
Keep in mind that Big Business has just as many "minions" on the left as it does on the right. Anyone who thinks they are on the "good" side in the Left vs. Right battle in our country has lost sight of the problem.
Troll my ass. It's an interesting point that would make an excellent start for a discussion.
It's true to a large extent and worth talking about. This post was dismissed as a troll because the person doing the moderating disagreed with posters position. Typical in here.
Like I said it's a matter of opinion.
I too often find myself in awe of the way the writers over at The Onion handle the many details involved in writing such stories as "80s Retro Craze Sweeps Executive Branch" and "Canadian Girlfriend Unsubstantiated".
How do you deal with something like that? How do you ingest the information necessary to write something as complicated and far reaching as that? The ramifications of writing an article titled "Study Reveals: Babies are Stupid" are mind boggling to say the least. Clearly these kinds of stories should not be confused with the writings of a sarcastic glib critic. These stories clearly require the ability to "deal with the devil in the details".
Or something like that.
Thought about it after the earlier reply and decided to do it again. The thing about it is that IMO the guy can actually write. It's crude and it's juvenile but it's funny material.
Like I said, obviously that's open to interpretation. I'm still trying to figure out what movie the people plugging the new Austin Powers movie on IMDB saw. The one I watched was pretty bad and only had a couple of scenes that worked.
Damn! I should have done that!
He's always one step ahead of me!
THe Onion and SatireWire are good. I like them both a great deal but I think the funniest site out there has to be Seanbaby. The stories on "The Probe" are hilarious and his Super Friends page is some seriously funny shit.
Obviously where humor is concerned it's all subjective.
http://www.seanbaby.com for the 4 people out there who haven't actually seen the site.
If you haven't already been there (and you probably have) I think Seanbaby.com is some amazingly funny stuff. His SuperFriends page is pretty much the high point of the site but "The Probe" is also pretty damned good.
I've been reading sentences like "all the faults you mentioned will be fixed in a year or two" for what's starting to close in on a decade. What I wouldn't give for that to have been the case. We might have a ballgame here then.
Oh man, no I don't lose any sleep over communism. And I don't really think of myself as against Linux. I mean, I own about 6 different distros that I can see from where I'm sitting. Sure there are more around the place but I'm not going to go dig out my Red Hat 5.2 to prove a point. I bought them all too out of a desire to see them succeed. I use Red Hat 7.3 now in my PC which sits next to my Mac and suffers greatly in comparison.
I just think the hurdles to be jumped to really get a significant number of people to go for the OS are impressive and shouldn't be taken lightly.
It does keep getting better and better but then so do the established OS's so you must measure the gain accordingly. I read a comment in here where someone stated that Linux might just be farther behind Windows now than it was a couple of years back and that's worth pondering for a moment.
To the user who goes in and picks up a new Gateway, HP, or eMachine Windows is free too. It's included in the price of their computer and that perception isn't going to budge. It's wrong and the more informed people out there understand it but majority of them don't and don't care. They think their PC is cheaper than the one they bought 4 years ago and has more "stuff" in it than the old one did. That's really all that matters.
I can't see how you don't think changing peoples minds is important in this equation. It's their mindset that keeps them in the "program" and keeps them from considering alternatives. Sure if their computers break they won't know how to reinstall or work with them because it was made easy for them but most of them know that the people who made it easy for them (and this is a laugh) are Microsoft.
Get them to see that someone else can make it even easier for them (like Apple is trying to do, now there is a company that knows the need to change peoples perceptions of them) and then you might have a chance to attract some "joe users".
One word: Microwave
This just seems like another rambling bitch about something that doesn't need fixing from someone who doesn't understand what the average person does with their computer.
You don't need to reinvent the GUI or take it to some higher level. Well maybe "you" do but they don't and they won't follow you there. They want an appliance that does what a computer does.
It can't be limited like the cheesy little internet appliances and it can't be flaky like a computer is either. They want it to work like their friggin TV and do everything that their computer can do and they don't care what OS is on it or who feeds them their news and advertising.
They don't want the free thinking and open internet they want AOL. They don't want better they want the same thing that other guy has so they can play games with him and trade songs with him and download porn from him. It has to be the same as his because if they can't figure out how to do something they are going to ask him for help.
This is like a battle to win the hearts and minds of a bunch of people who don't feel passionate about the subject and don't want to put any thought into the questions.
To become what they want Linux will have to either change into something you don't want or split into two almost completely different forms to accomodate you both.
That's what you get for being a fetus during the NES boom days! It's the breaks kid. I sure would have liked to have been around back when they were making those 63' split window vettes too and I would have loved to have been able to buy one brand new off the show room floor.
Instead I wasn't around then so I didn't get the chance to do it. I can still BUY one and restore it though. I just don't get to steal the parts to make it run.
1. A polished desktop environment (two, actually)
That both lag behind the target and even farther behind the real leader in the catagory, OSX
2. Solid productivity apps
That due to marketing from the 800lb gorilla and the considerable lead they have in this area no one wants to use outside of the faithful.
3. Good support for multimedia
That again lags behind the target. Unless you can match or exceed the ability that the average Windows user has to either just click and open darned near anything they want or at the most go get the plugin to do so you aren't there yet.
4. An amazing Web browser (or several, depending on taste and definition)
Granted. In this one area things are right with the world. Still it should be understood that when you are hanging in there by one thin thread it's simple enough to cut it. All it would take would be one well placed "enhanced standard" to put this right back to lagging behind the established leader.
Easy point-and-click installation
Not from someones point of view who has spent the last few years installing programs in Windows or Mac OS. Even Red Carpet would draw a baffled "Huh?" from them.
GUI admin tools
Finally. Thank God!
I really do agree with you that things have come miles from where we were but the odds are so long and the lead is so great that it's a little overwhelming if you think about it too much. The lead isn't so much in the software but rather in the mind. Being better isn't going to be enough but I think it might be all this movement can manage. Not shabby by any means but changing minds is going to take some help and a different approach. A fumble or two from MS might also be needed.
But it's kind of obvious that most people have a tendency to standardize on one particular application that they get comfortable with to perform a given task. You don't think that Wordperfect is a completely incapable word processor do you? Of course you don't. It's a nice program for writing BUT most people have M$ Word (or it's bastard cousin in MS Works) lodged firmly in their minds when they get ready to type up a document and that's why Wordperfect is barely registering a pulse these days. Same thing goes for every single other type of application that you could say "a majority of people use".
There is an obvious bridge that Linux on the desktop needs to cross in order to not be "dead on the desktop" and a lot of the people who love it now will bemoan the state of things if and when it comes to pass. The 10,000 programs that get dropped on a new user are going to have to be pared down to a handful of front runners for "most people".
I like the often repeated suggestion of having a standard, basic, newbie, whatever install that does this and the alternative install that gives you the whole enchilada.
That would go a long way towards getting things pointed in the right direction.
But it's a moot point anyway because whatever gets done with Linux for the desktop OSX will have done it first and in all likelyhood done it better. At least from the average person/user perspective.
>You certainly have a tradeoff on where/how that pollution will get into the air, but reduce it? Sorry, that part of the dream you don't get to keep.
And just why not? I mean, it's my screwed up fantasy world we're talking about right?
Obviously we are going to have to invent some previously unimagined completely clean and ridiculously powerful new energy source roughly 20 minutes (give or take a minute or two) before we get those teleporters online.
See, while I'm dreaming there's nothing I can't do. Now reality is another thing entirely.
I don't understand why any media industry should view us as citizens and not consumers? I mean, the government (on local, state, and federal levels here in the US) should see you as a citizen. That makes sense. The media is as you say an industry and being an industry they are all about making a profit.
It's what they do. It's pretty much all they should be doing. They have to obey the law (or at least in theory they do)and should be doing that too granted, but for crying out loud, if the people who are trying to sell you things can't look at you as consumers without pissing you off then how is anyone going to make a buck in this world?
I would think that a member of any media industry that didn't view you as a consumer or potential consumer would not be around very long.
I think you might have some of that crappy argument syndrome as well. I mean, you aren't building a replacement part are you? You have every right to write yourself a game if you are that into the platform. but you didn't write this game. You don't own this game. You never owned this game.
You "owned" the right to use a copy of this game for the period of time that the manufacturer stated that it would last. Nothing more really.
But I will conceed that it's kind of close to the mark. I mean, really what rights do you have once someone has quit supporting that "thing" you bought...a decade ago?
People complaining that they have some kind of bizarre right to these ROMs are just plain nuts. You HAD a right to go out and buy the crap out of them when they were on the market. No one would have stopped you if you wanted to buy every single one you could get your hands on correct? Now you HAVE the right to go digging around trying to find old and working used ones "on the market". That's pretty much all the rights you have in this.
Now if these companies want to share their older games with the people who gave them money back in the day that's cool and I'm going to that website tonight to get all my favorite old games. I'm going to get some I don't even like just to be a glutton and because I can.
I can, but it's not a "right". I can because the owners allow it.
Of course they haven't allowed it so I'm not going to download squat tonight but you get my point.
You want to swipe some ROMs and enjoy your favorite old games fine. Knock yourself out. But remember it's not it's not your right to do so.
Those vaults full of IP that they aren't selling but aren't letting go of are just their for them to mine away at when they are lacking in original new ideas for games. Look at the Mario or Zelda games. They've got franchises there that roll the $$$ in and don't think for a moment that they don't drag through the old games from time to time looking to recreate that magic with other lesser known titles.