Your right, it definately includes DOS attacks on the right computers. But again, you have to remember, no judge in his right mind is going to toss this law at some script kiddie. That's the beauty of our system, lots of checks and balances.
Can you see a federal judge throwing a 14 year old kid in prison for life because he DOS'd Yahoo? I just don't see that happening.
The reason intelligence failed was because current law prevents the justice system from persuing terrorists! This proposed bill would update US law so these failures would not take place!
This proposal appears to make no distinction between website defacement (the rough equivalent to tagging a wall somewhere IMHO) and majorly disrupting traffic through DoS attacks or releasing a virus. (admittedly much more serious stuff) And LIFE in prison? More than many violent criminals recieve? Did the Krull invade while I wasn't looking?
It does damnit! Why the hell do people post this crap without doing their research!! Read the law doofus.
Click here for a cut and paste version of US law after this is enacted. (from a discussion farther up.)
I'll repost here so everyone has a chance to argue the point. God damn US Law is spagetti code!!!:)
Piecing it together:
Sec. 2510. Definitions -
(17) ''electronic storage'' means -
(A) any temporary, intermediate storage of a wire or electronic communication incidental to the electronic transmission thereof; and
(B) any storage of such communication by an electronic communication service for purposes of backup protection of such communication; and
(18) ''aural transfer'' means a transfer containing the human voice at any point between and including the point of origin and the point of reception.
(19) `protected computer' has the meaning set forth in section 1030; and
(20) `computer trespasser' means a person who accesses a protected computer without authorization and thus has no reasonable expectation of privacy in any communication transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer.
This area relates to making it legal to listen in on computer communications. e.g., the fbi and cia under these provisions are not commiting a crime.
no big deal.
On the next (big) point:
from the proposal:
1030(a)(1), (a)(4), (a)(5)(A), or (a)(7) (relating to protection of computers),
You sited A-2, note A2 is not mentioned.
From section 1030 a1, a4, a5a, and a7 -
(http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html)
(a) Whoever -
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization
or exceeding authorized access, and by means of such conduct
having obtained information that has been determined by the
United States Government pursuant to an Executive order or
statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for
reasons of national defense or foreign relations, or any
restricted data, as defined in paragraph y. of section 11 of the
Atomic Energy Act of 1954, with reason to believe that such
information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United
States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation willfully
communicates, delivers, transmits, or causes to be communicated,
delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver,
transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted
the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully
retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or
employee of the United States entitled to receive it;
(4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected
computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and
by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains
anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing
obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value
of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period;
(5)
(A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program,
information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct,
intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected
computer;
(7) with intent to extort from any person, firm, association,
educational institution, financial institution, government
entity, or other legal entity, any money or other thing of value,
transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication
containing any threat to cause damage to a protected computer; shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section
Hacking Hotmail or any other communication system for fun, would not fall under this bill.
Sec. 2510. Definitions -
(17) ''electronic storage'' means -
(A) any temporary, intermediate storage of a wire or electronic communication incidental to the electronic transmission thereof; and
(B) any storage of such communication by an electronic communication service for purposes of backup protection of such communication; and
(18) ''aural transfer'' means a transfer containing the human voice at any point between and including the point of origin and the point of reception.
(19) `protected computer' has the meaning set forth in section 1030; and
(20) `computer trespasser' means a person who accesses a protected computer without authorization and thus has no reasonable expectation of privacy in any communication transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer.
This area relates to making it legal to listen in on computer communications. e.g., the fbi and cia under these provisions are not commiting a crime.
no big deal.
On the next (big) point:
from the proposal:
1030(a)(1), (a)(4), (a)(5)(A), or (a)(7) (relating to protection of computers),
You sited A-2, note A2 is not mentioned.
From section 1030 a1, a4, a5a, and a7 -
(http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html)
(a) Whoever -
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization
or exceeding authorized access, and by means of such conduct
having obtained information that has been determined by the
United States Government pursuant to an Executive order or
statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for
reasons of national defense or foreign relations, or any
restricted data, as defined in paragraph y. of section 11 of the
Atomic Energy Act of 1954, with reason to believe that such
information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United
States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation willfully
communicates, delivers, transmits, or causes to be communicated,
delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver,
transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted
the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully
retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or
employee of the United States entitled to receive it;
(4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected
computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and
by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains
anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing
obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value
of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period;
(5)
(A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program,
information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct,
intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected
computer;
(7) with intent to extort from any person, firm, association,
educational institution, financial institution, government
entity, or other legal entity, any money or other thing of value,
transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication
containing any threat to cause damage to a protected computer; shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section
Hacking Hotmail or any other communication system for fun, would not fall under this bill.
Used in interstate or foreing communication? How many of you connect to machines and/or through machines without crossing state lines?
I do, but this law doesn't effect me, because i don't hack into financial or government computers. Hell I don't hack any computers.
Your right though, does
interstate or foreign commerce or
communication;potentially include hacking Hotmail? I'm not getting an accurate read on this
line.
We're not talking about a sales based regenerative business here, were talking about mass murder. People in the WTC didn't walk up to their local terrorist and say "I'd like a good dose of death today, thank you."
Your comparing apples and oranges here. The war on drugs vs. a war on terrorism - two completely different animals.
This is nothing like the DMCA. It's aimed at giving the justice department sorely needed help in fighting terrorist activities. I mean come on, shouldn't the justice department be able to tap the computer traffic and cell phone calls of a known criminal, with a judge's permission? (not just a single phone line as it is now?) It's simply modernization of outdated law.
The lawmakers who will convert this to a bill are very senitive to civil rights, they're already complaining about certain part of the draft. It will be fair, and any unfair parts will get amended as it is put to use. This is the way thre US justice system works. And, imho, it's a darn good system. The DMCA is currently undergoing this kind of 'testing', and wqill be amended as examples of it's miss-use come to light.
They have yet to draft it into a final bill yet, that was the point of the hearing today, which i watched. It's now up to the law makers (another week or so they say) to draft it into a bill that will go to congress. Ashcroft has his shit together. imho.
This is a perversion of what Ashcroft requested. Hackers who attempt to disrupt key systems that are vital to protecting human life, for example the FAA's radar systems, are terrorists. And they are.
um, OpenGL supports both 3D and 2D drawing modes. You waste all that 3D computation to get 2D drawing by doing this. Look up the glOrtho call to find out more about GL's 2d mode.
it is open you doofus. it supports linux, windows, and mac. it has financial and developer support from Creative Labs. It's also being updated regularly.
All you people ever do is whine and complain. If you don't like the idea of this, try to come up with a better solution! How does the FBI and CIA deal with criminals using high end crypto for communications? If it's not back doors, what is it??
it's a great lib. they had problems with it on windows last spring, but the bugs seem to be worked out now. I actually just downloaded the latest from the ftp site a week ago and it seems very stable.
1. download size - 350K and shrinking
2. portable, cross-platform design
3. based on a simple, elegant, dynamic oo language
4. core vm is open source
5. supports cross-platform open standard api's
6. multimedia oriented
7. write once, run anywhere code
8. runs in browsers and as a local app
check it out if you have the time. it's still in beta, but is getting there.
Re:How to make Carnivore useless
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 0
Re:And here comes Carnivore...
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 0
I completely support the use of Carnivore and other such technologies if their use and the information they garner is not abused. Terrorists are using anonymous email (Hotmail!!) to communicate and plan attacks such as these. The us government has the right to monitor these services in an effort to stop such brutal acts of violence in the United States and the world. IMHO.
Slashdot Mirror
Biased News for Nerds. Only the view we think matters.
Your right, it definately includes DOS attacks on the right computers. But again, you have to remember, no judge in his right mind is going to toss this law at some script kiddie. That's the beauty of our system, lots of checks and balances. Can you see a federal judge throwing a 14 year old kid in prison for life because he DOS'd Yahoo? I just don't see that happening.
The reason intelligence failed was because current law prevents the justice system from persuing terrorists! This proposed bill would update US law so these failures would not take place!
It does damnit! Why the hell do people post this crap without doing their research!! Read the law doofus. Click here for a cut and paste version of US law after this is enacted. (from a discussion farther up.)
Piecing it together:
Sec. 2510. Definitions -
(17) ''electronic storage'' means -
(A) any temporary, intermediate storage of a wire or electronic communication incidental to the electronic transmission thereof; and
(B) any storage of such communication by an electronic communication service for purposes of backup protection of such communication; and
(18) ''aural transfer'' means a transfer containing the human voice at any point between and including the point of origin and the point of reception.
(19) `protected computer' has the meaning set forth in section 1030; and
(20) `computer trespasser' means a person who accesses a protected computer without authorization and thus has no reasonable expectation of privacy in any communication transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer.
This area relates to making it legal to listen in on computer communications. e.g., the fbi and cia under these provisions are not commiting a crime. no big deal.
On the next (big) point:
from the proposal:
1030(a)(1), (a)(4), (a)(5)(A), or (a)(7)
(relating to protection of computers),
You sited A-2, note A2 is not mentioned.
From section 1030 a1, a4, a5a, and a7 -
(http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html)
(a) Whoever -
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and by means of such conduct having obtained information that has been determined by the United States Government pursuant to an Executive order or statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national defense or foreign relations, or any restricted data, as defined in paragraph y. of section 11 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, with reason to believe that such information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation willfully communicates, delivers, transmits, or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;
(4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period;
(5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;
(7) with intent to extort from any person, firm, association, educational institution, financial institution, government entity, or other legal entity, any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to cause damage to a protected computer; shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section
Hacking Hotmail or any other communication system for fun, would not fall under this bill.
no it doesn't, see my next post.
Piecing it together:
Sec. 2510. Definitions -
(17) ''electronic storage'' means -
(A) any temporary, intermediate storage of a wire or electronic communication incidental to the electronic transmission thereof; and
(B) any storage of such communication by an electronic communication service for purposes of backup protection of such communication; and
(18) ''aural transfer'' means a transfer containing the human voice at any point between and including the point of origin and the point of reception.
(19) `protected computer' has the meaning set forth in section 1030; and
(20) `computer trespasser' means a person who accesses a protected computer without authorization and thus has no reasonable expectation of privacy in any communication transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer.
This area relates to making it legal to listen in on computer communications. e.g., the fbi and cia under these provisions are not commiting a crime. no big deal.
On the next (big) point:
from the proposal:
1030(a)(1), (a)(4), (a)(5)(A), or (a)(7)
(relating to protection of computers),
You sited A-2, note A2 is not mentioned.
From section 1030 a1, a4, a5a, and a7 -
(http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html)
(a) Whoever -
(1) having knowingly accessed a computer without authorization or exceeding authorized access, and by means of such conduct having obtained information that has been determined by the United States Government pursuant to an Executive order or statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national defense or foreign relations, or any restricted data, as defined in paragraph y. of section 11 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, with reason to believe that such information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation willfully communicates, delivers, transmits, or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;
(4) knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period;
(5) (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;
(7) with intent to extort from any person, firm, association, educational institution, financial institution, government entity, or other legal entity, any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to cause damage to a protected computer; shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section
Hacking Hotmail or any other communication system for fun, would not fall under this bill.
I do, but this law doesn't effect me, because i don't hack into financial or government computers. Hell I don't hack any computers.
Your right though, does interstate or foreign commerce or communication;potentially include hacking Hotmail? I'm not getting an accurate read on this line.
and bear in mind it is a proposal, to be rewritten by lawyers sensative to people's rights, and later passed by capitol hill before it becomes law.
Your comparing apples and oranges here. The war on drugs vs. a war on terrorism - two completely different animals.
damn staight.
The lawmakers who will convert this to a bill are very senitive to civil rights, they're already complaining about certain part of the draft. It will be fair, and any unfair parts will get amended as it is put to use. This is the way thre US justice system works. And, imho, it's a darn good system. The DMCA is currently undergoing this kind of 'testing', and wqill be amended as examples of it's miss-use come to light.
They have yet to draft it into a final bill yet, that was the point of the hearing today, which i watched. It's now up to the law makers (another week or so they say) to draft it into a bill that will go to congress. Ashcroft has his shit together. imho.
This is a perversion of what Ashcroft requested. Hackers who attempt to disrupt key systems that are vital to protecting human life, for example the FAA's radar systems, are terrorists. And they are.
Damn Straight! Michael, pull your head out of you ass please.
um, OpenGL supports both 3D and 2D drawing modes. You waste all that 3D computation to get 2D drawing by doing this. Look up the glOrtho call to find out more about GL's 2d mode.
it is open you doofus. it supports linux, windows, and mac. it has financial and developer support from Creative Labs. It's also being updated regularly.
you said it. slashdoters live in a paranoia bubble. long live carnivore and the CIA you loosers. I have nothing to hide from my goverment.
good point!
All you people ever do is whine and complain. If you don't like the idea of this, try to come up with a better solution! How does the FBI and CIA deal with criminals using high end crypto for communications? If it's not back doors, what is it??
it's a great lib. they had problems with it on windows last spring, but the bugs seem to be worked out now. I actually just downloaded the latest from the ftp site a week ago and it seems very stable.
Yindo
1. download size - 350K and shrinking
2. portable, cross-platform design
3. based on a simple, elegant, dynamic oo language
4. core vm is open source
5. supports cross-platform open standard api's
6. multimedia oriented
7. write once, run anywhere code
8. runs in browsers and as a local app
check it out if you have the time. it's still in beta, but is getting there.
tasteless comment.
Of course they do. http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/w
I completely support the use of Carnivore and other such technologies if their use and the information they garner is not abused. Terrorists are using anonymous email (Hotmail!!) to communicate and plan attacks such as these. The us government has the right to monitor these services in an effort to stop such brutal acts of violence in the United States and the world. IMHO.