So, in the end, since my job is not Network Analysis
It doesn't need to be someone's job; it could be a hobby, with users helping users avoid bad networks. An app listing nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and letting users read and post reviews of the hotspots would need to see which MACs or SSIDs are near a particular user. For example: "The Subway Guest Wi-Fi here cuts you off after half an hour and then locks you out of rejoining for another half hour." The app would use the SSID and/or MAC to ensure that the review actually refers to the same AP. Unfortunately, with the API restrictions on iOS, you won't be getting Yelp for Hotspots on an iPhone.
Ok, so that's ONE corner-case application. And I already conceded that the ability to gather more info on WiFi networks is the ONE API/App restriction I would like to see removed.
But it is STILL nowhere NEAR-enough to give up the security of iOS, sorry!
And quite frankly, the very real limitation of screen size on a phone makes some Applications simply impractical.
What (technical) limitation? Try connecting your iPhone to your living room TV through AirPlay to an Apple TV or through the Lightning to HDMI cable. At that point, the iPhone's touch screen could behave as a Magic Trackpad. The only thing keeping an iPhone from running desktop-like apps in this way is the lockdown.
Thanks, I already can do exactly that with AirPlay through my AppleTV and one of several VNC Apps, like "Jump". But:
1. You generally don't haul your TV set around with you; so now we're off the topic of "mobile" operation.
2. I can't run macOS, Linux or Windows Applications on my iPhone for the same reason you can't run Linux Applications on your Android phone; i.e., because they don't share a processor architecture; not because of screen-size limitations. It has NOTHING to do with "Lockdown", FFS!
But, if you've ever tried to use a VNC App on your Phone, you know very well that it IS a matter of screen-size limitation that makes it an exercise in frustration. And AirPlay doesn't really count when you're on the Subway or in the Coffee Shop, etc., now does it?
3. If I am at home, I have a laptop, which also has AirPlay. So, did you have a point?
You're reachin', man! Quit while you've just started losing...
I already have a suitable laptop, which I use for other things, too.
But do you carry your MacBook with you everywhere in case you need to suddenly use an app that isn't available for your iPhone?
No, but if I am doing something where I suspect I might need such apps, I try to remember to bring it. Plus, it's not like there are no network troubleshooting tools on iOS. I use "Fing" if I want to find IP addresses on a LAN, etc. And there are others...
Having said that, of all the App/API restrictions on iOS, the ONE that I would like to see addressed is the ability to enumerate and provide statistics on nearby WiFi networks.
But that isn't that big of a deal, and as I said, that's what I have a laptop for. Perhaps if that was a huge part of my life, I would carry a smaller device for those (now rare) occasions.
Afterall, all I have to do on my iPhone to get a listing of "discoverable" WiFi networks and at least a rudimentary idea of their signal strengths and Security Settings is to open the "Settings" App and choose "Other" under the "WiFi Settings". For example, sitting at my desk, my iPhone can "see" 10 "secure" WiFi Networks and 2 "Open" ones. I can't tell if they are 2.4 or 5 GHz (unless the name suggests same), but at least I know what is around me, and whether it is "Public" or not.
So, in the end, since my job is not Network Analysis, my personal needs are actually served on the one thing I would actually like to see in a more "complete" fashion.
Your experience differs from mine. I have a laptop. A lot of other people in another circle of friends I'm in do not. When asked why they can't do something or didn't notice something, they say "I'm on mobile". They would need to buy and start carrying a laptop in addition to the phone.
Yup.
And quite frankly, the very real limitation of screen size on a phone makes some Applications simply impractical. That is NOT something that is likely to be fixed, until humans do some serious upgrading of our OWN capabilities, like grow eagle-vision.
Or are you REALLY so stupid to suggest that a phone and a laptop are equivalent devices?
No. But if most everybody needs a laptop anyway, why does the iPad continue to exist?
Most people are beginning to ask that question the other way around. I would frankly LOVE to see an iPad Pro running full-blown macOS. And what's funny, is that when Apple was first designing the iPad, there were actually two "competing" teams created by Steve Jobs. One was to develop an OS very similar to what we know as iOS; the other was to see what would happen with OS X essentially ported to ARM for the iPad.
The interesting thing is that Jobs actually favored the "OS X"-version. But when they were both demoed, apparently everyone (including Jobs) agreed that the "finger-friendly" "iOS" version made much more sense.
But now that, with iOS 11, the iPad is growing what appears to be pretty much a macOS "Dock", plus side-by-side Apps, and essentially a "real" Filesystem-browser, and has an available Pencil for dealing with smaller "click-targets", it seems like things are really starting to move in that direction, anyway.
I predict that within two or three years, you'll be able to:
1. Run a macOS/iOS hybrid on an iPad Pro. I would doubt very much (actually I hope not!) that this will extend to the iPhone, due to screen-size limitations...
2. MAYBE be able to run iOS apps on Macs.
I would also imagine that #1 is already working in the Apple labs... MacOS is VERY processor-agnostic, and macOS and iOS share a Darwin Core; so...
It's even worse when you learn who actually makes the laptops. The dirty little secret of the laptop industry is that almost no name brand actually makes their laptops. They're almost all made by ODMs - original design manufacturers. They're like OEMs except they also design the product. All the brand name does is give the ODM the specs of what they want, approve the final design, and slap their label on it. The Macbooks for example are made by Quanta. Quanta also happens to make most of HP's and Dell's laptops.
For Apple, at least, Quanta serves as nothing more than a CM (Contract Manufacturer). Apple designs nearly 100% of their hardware and software. Sure, like everyone else, some software and hardware bits are, or start from, reference designs; but in Apple's case, that's not the CM's call. It is Apple's.
And I'm not so sure Quanta still makes any MacBook stuff. From what I can tell from recent (newer than around 2006) sources, most, if not all, of the Apple laptops are made by Foxconn. Again, strictly as a CM. No "Design Services".
I'm the GGGP AC, and I'd just like to point out that childish over reactions like these diminish all anonymous voices by training everyone else to ignore them.
It's anthropogenic vulcanism! Humans drive volcanic activity, and too many tourists stepping on Yellowstone is going to cause "The Big One".
This goes along with anthropogenic earthquakes, anthropogenic sunspots, and anthropogenic cosmic rays, which can all be correlated to human activity of some sort.
We are not simply insignificant bags of mostly water on a tiny rock at the edge of an insignificant galaxy in the middle of an uncaring and massive universe, we are the ultimate drivers of the cosmos!!/sarc
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the scientists looking for volcanoes below the Antarctic ice sheet could be competent geologists chasing their next government grant?
difficult to enforce contracts...Personal relationships and [connections] are much more important.
This is why I believe tariffs are needed to balance trade because there too many intricate relationships to micromanage by inspectors and lawyers if the US wants to stop discrimination of foreign products and services.
Set a simple tariff to be a percentage of the trade imbalance. Say the tariff is set at 1/5 the imbalance percent. Then if China exports 50% more goods/services to the US than it imports, the tariff would be 10%.
Activate it gradually to avoid shocking the markets. The tariff is not meant to punish them and dampen overall trade, but rather encourage them to balance things out and be more import-driven. Their ingrained habit is to discriminate against foreign products & services.
Sorry, I am a financial dullard; and nevermind international trade agreements... You might as well be explaining this to your cat/dog/hamster/snake/etc...;-)
Two years is NOT in the "Infant Mortality" phase, I was taught that those failure occur in under 90 days, and most often in the 0 to 30 day period.
Two years covers the infant mortality phase, I agree its over before that two year period. The actual period varies with product type and use cases, but I'd agree that its closer to 30 for this type of product. The point was that the two years does not include the age related failure phase as the summary quote suggested.
Two years may be part of the infant mortality phase for a bridge or a refrigerator; but it sure isn't for an electronic device with basically no moving parts, whose ENTIRE average lifespan is less than ten years.
... I suspect the majority of the issues can be traced to the Skylake CPUs in the Surface Pro 4. The issues with that generation CPU in mobile are pretty well known...
Microsoft was the one who put those CPUs into the Surface. I didn't, you didn't and Intel didn't. So you seem to be saying that Microsoft knowingly put a CPU into the Surface that had known reliability issues, without doing any QA testing of those CPUs before using them. Wow, that sounds even worse than I had thought.
Hmmm. Then why don't the Macs that use those CPUs have the same issues?
Hear hear - Although I don't have as much problems with sleep mode as I do with dead wifi or dead camera coming out of sleep mode.
I've been trained to expect that from windows PC manufacturers as MS and the hardware vendors go back and forth. But here, MS produces both the hardware AND the software and you'd think they could at least resolve the problems after 2 years (SP4 user here).
Exactly.
That was always the Windows Fanboi's retort when people would point out that Macs didn't have these problems (at least not chronically across all designs and model-years). "Windows has to support SO MANY different configurations..."
Well now they don't really have that excuse. If they can't get it right when they are controlling the "entire experience", like Apple, then when WILL they get it right?
Yeah, and I'm sure they calibrated for that based on failure rate and historical failures of similar products.
A failure rate of 25% over two years would indicate that even if they only sampled failure rate over the first month, they still got way more than a 1% failure rate, which IMO is an order of magnitude higher than is acceptable in a consumer product over the course of two years. Something is very wrong if CR is coming up with estimates that are that high. That's junk-level hardware by the time you get into a double-digit annual failure rate.
Yeah, it seems ridiculously high. The two years is still in the initial failure phase, I was just pointing out the fallacy of the statement quoted in the summary and what it presumes.
Two years is NOT in the "Infant Mortality" phase, I was taught that those failure occur in under 90 days, and most often in the 0 to 30 day period.
Two years is absolutely in the middle of the "bathtub". And if that 25% figure is even DOUBLE the actual failure rate, there is something seriously wrong with the product's design, components (including any software), and/or the manufacturing/QC methods.
both our predicted 1-2-year failure and actual return rates for Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are significantly lower than 25%.
Back when I was working developing industrial control products, we considered anything above a few percent (like less than 5%) to be "something's wrong here", prompting an evaluation of design, components (and software, if applicable), manufacturing processes, QC processes, etc.
Something as alarming as 25% would have likely caused the entire product to be at least temporarily pulled-from-sale immediately, and more-than-likely, never sold again. In fact, even the most-failure-prone product I was aware of at that place had a failure rate of around 10%, and it was basically cancelled and never mentioned again...
Oh, and BTW, I remind everyone that these products were for use in an INDUSTRIAL environment, which is a LOT harsher than what your average consumer can dish-out. By far.
They way it works in China is first you sign the contract. Then you negotiate. I am not joking either.
I also work in China, and I concur with this. It is difficult to enforce contracts, so a written agreement doesn't mean much in practice. Personal relationships and Guanxi are much more important. Start with small deals and work up as you build the relationship. If you aren't sure, then use an escrow service so neither party can screw the other.
Slashdot Mirror
So, in the end, since my job is not Network Analysis
It doesn't need to be someone's job; it could be a hobby, with users helping users avoid bad networks. An app listing nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and letting users read and post reviews of the hotspots would need to see which MACs or SSIDs are near a particular user. For example: "The Subway Guest Wi-Fi here cuts you off after half an hour and then locks you out of rejoining for another half hour." The app would use the SSID and/or MAC to ensure that the review actually refers to the same AP. Unfortunately, with the API restrictions on iOS, you won't be getting Yelp for Hotspots on an iPhone.
Ok, so that's ONE corner-case application. And I already conceded that the ability to gather more info on WiFi networks is the ONE API/App restriction I would like to see removed.
But it is STILL nowhere NEAR-enough to give up the security of iOS, sorry!
And quite frankly, the very real limitation of screen size on a phone makes some Applications simply impractical.
What (technical) limitation? Try connecting your iPhone to your living room TV through AirPlay to an Apple TV or through the Lightning to HDMI cable. At that point, the iPhone's touch screen could behave as a Magic Trackpad. The only thing keeping an iPhone from running desktop-like apps in this way is the lockdown.
Thanks, I already can do exactly that with AirPlay through my AppleTV and one of several VNC Apps, like "Jump". But:
1. You generally don't haul your TV set around with you; so now we're off the topic of "mobile" operation.
2. I can't run macOS, Linux or Windows Applications on my iPhone for the same reason you can't run Linux Applications on your Android phone; i.e., because they don't share a processor architecture; not because of screen-size limitations. It has NOTHING to do with "Lockdown", FFS!
But, if you've ever tried to use a VNC App on your Phone, you know very well that it IS a matter of screen-size limitation that makes it an exercise in frustration. And AirPlay doesn't really count when you're on the Subway or in the Coffee Shop, etc., now does it?
3. If I am at home, I have a laptop, which also has AirPlay. So, did you have a point?
You're reachin', man! Quit while you've just started losing...
I already have a suitable laptop, which I use for other things, too.
But do you carry your MacBook with you everywhere in case you need to suddenly use an app that isn't available for your iPhone?
No, but if I am doing something where I suspect I might need such apps, I try to remember to bring it. Plus, it's not like there are no network troubleshooting tools on iOS. I use "Fing" if I want to find IP addresses on a LAN, etc. And there are others...
Having said that, of all the App/API restrictions on iOS, the ONE that I would like to see addressed is the ability to enumerate and provide statistics on nearby WiFi networks.
But that isn't that big of a deal, and as I said, that's what I have a laptop for. Perhaps if that was a huge part of my life, I would carry a smaller device for those (now rare) occasions.
Afterall, all I have to do on my iPhone to get a listing of "discoverable" WiFi networks and at least a rudimentary idea of their signal strengths and Security Settings is to open the "Settings" App and choose "Other" under the "WiFi Settings". For example, sitting at my desk, my iPhone can "see" 10 "secure" WiFi Networks and 2 "Open" ones. I can't tell if they are 2.4 or 5 GHz (unless the name suggests same), but at least I know what is around me, and whether it is "Public" or not.
So, in the end, since my job is not Network Analysis, my personal needs are actually served on the one thing I would actually like to see in a more "complete" fashion.
Your experience differs from mine. I have a laptop. A lot of other people in another circle of friends I'm in do not. When asked why they can't do something or didn't notice something, they say "I'm on mobile". They would need to buy and start carrying a laptop in addition to the phone.
Yup.
And quite frankly, the very real limitation of screen size on a phone makes some Applications simply impractical. That is NOT something that is likely to be fixed, until humans do some serious upgrading of our OWN capabilities, like grow eagle-vision.
Or are you REALLY so stupid to suggest that a phone and a laptop are equivalent devices?
No. But if most everybody needs a laptop anyway, why does the iPad continue to exist?
Most people are beginning to ask that question the other way around. I would frankly LOVE to see an iPad Pro running full-blown macOS. And what's funny, is that when Apple was first designing the iPad, there were actually two "competing" teams created by Steve Jobs. One was to develop an OS very similar to what we know as iOS; the other was to see what would happen with OS X essentially ported to ARM for the iPad.
The interesting thing is that Jobs actually favored the "OS X"-version. But when they were both demoed, apparently everyone (including Jobs) agreed that the "finger-friendly" "iOS" version made much more sense.
But now that, with iOS 11, the iPad is growing what appears to be pretty much a macOS "Dock", plus side-by-side Apps, and essentially a "real" Filesystem-browser, and has an available Pencil for dealing with smaller "click-targets", it seems like things are really starting to move in that direction, anyway.
I predict that within two or three years, you'll be able to:
1. Run a macOS/iOS hybrid on an iPad Pro. I would doubt very much (actually I hope not!) that this will extend to the iPhone, due to screen-size limitations...
2. MAYBE be able to run iOS apps on Macs.
I would also imagine that #1 is already working in the Apple labs... MacOS is VERY processor-agnostic, and macOS and iOS share a Darwin Core; so...
How fast is it to earn $999 (source) to buy a MacBook Air?* And how convenient is it to carry a MacBook Air everywhere that you would carry an iPhone?
* Less expensive laptops made by other companies are available, but TheFakeTimCook has already expressed a preference for Apple products.
I already have a suitable laptop, which I use for other things, too.
So, I that regard, the cost of the laptop is exactly ZERO.
Or are you REALLY so stupid to suggest that a phone and a laptop are equivalent devices?
More USAPATRIOTACT Fallout.
Perhaps the gummint would like to issue us all mandated, always-on bodycams...
When I download an App from iOS App Store, I don't have to worry about this kind of shit.
Instead, you have to worry about there not being any apps at all for a particular task when the App Store Review Guidelines block iOS apps from performing certain tasks.
That's what my laptop is for.
It's even worse when you learn who actually makes the laptops. The dirty little secret of the laptop industry is that almost no name brand actually makes their laptops. They're almost all made by ODMs - original design manufacturers. They're like OEMs except they also design the product. All the brand name does is give the ODM the specs of what they want, approve the final design, and slap their label on it. The Macbooks for example are made by Quanta. Quanta also happens to make most of HP's and Dell's laptops.
For Apple, at least, Quanta serves as nothing more than a CM (Contract Manufacturer). Apple designs nearly 100% of their hardware and software. Sure, like everyone else, some software and hardware bits are, or start from, reference designs; but in Apple's case, that's not the CM's call. It is Apple's.
And I'm not so sure Quanta still makes any MacBook stuff. From what I can tell from recent (newer than around 2006) sources, most, if not all, of the Apple laptops are made by Foxconn. Again, strictly as a CM. No "Design Services".
Despite it's failures and rubbish drivers it still is every bit the device many people think it is.
Are you SURE you want to make such an "enticing" statement on Slashdot?
I'll be kind, and not respond with the dozen or so snarky comments that statement elicits... ...But I'll bet that others won't be so restrained.
Yet only Microsoft gets the bad ones, right?
Why do you hate Microsoft so much, Intel? Why, oh, why?
[/sarcasm]
I'm the GGGP AC, and I'd just like to point out that childish over reactions like these diminish all anonymous voices by training everyone else to ignore them.
Too late.
There is no reason to worry about glacier covering being lost due to the end of the last Ice Age. You might as well worry about asteroids.
I DO, you insensitive clod!
It's anthropogenic vulcanism! Humans drive volcanic activity, and too many tourists stepping on Yellowstone is going to cause "The Big One".
This goes along with anthropogenic earthquakes, anthropogenic sunspots, and anthropogenic cosmic rays, which can all be correlated to human activity of some sort.
We are not simply insignificant bags of mostly water on a tiny rock at the edge of an insignificant galaxy in the middle of an uncaring and massive universe, we are the ultimate drivers of the cosmos!! /sarc
Precisely!
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the scientists looking for volcanoes below the Antarctic ice sheet could be competent geologists chasing their next government grant?
FTFY.
This is typical of climate change types.
Exactly!
Just like I am SURE that all those cans of hairspray and vented refrigerator coils caused the volcanos, too...
Oh, and don't forget the cow-farts!
IOW, not at all.
Bitch all you want about iOS: When I download an App from iOS App Store, I don't have to worry about this kind of shit.
There is NO excuse for this on the Play Store either. It's not like this was some shady, back-ally "App Store" site.
C'mon Google! I KNOW it doesn't contribute ad-dollars; but could you at least PRETEND to "vet" Apps on the Play Store?
Oh, wait! That IS what they're doing... PRETENDING to give a shit about their Users' privacy...
Come on now! Who wouldn't trust that?
Followed by "TrojanChat" and "GiftHorseChat", of course!
This is why I believe tariffs are needed to balance trade because there too many intricate relationships to micromanage by inspectors and lawyers if the US wants to stop discrimination of foreign products and services.
Set a simple tariff to be a percentage of the trade imbalance. Say the tariff is set at 1/5 the imbalance percent. Then if China exports 50% more goods/services to the US than it imports, the tariff would be 10%.
Activate it gradually to avoid shocking the markets. The tariff is not meant to punish them and dampen overall trade, but rather encourage them to balance things out and be more import-driven. Their ingrained habit is to discriminate against foreign products & services.
Sorry, I am a financial dullard; and nevermind international trade agreements... You might as well be explaining this to your cat/dog/hamster/snake/etc... ;-)
Two years is NOT in the "Infant Mortality" phase, I was taught that those failure occur in under 90 days, and most often in the 0 to 30 day period.
Two years covers the infant mortality phase, I agree its over before that two year period. The actual period varies with product type and use cases, but I'd agree that its closer to 30 for this type of product. The point was that the two years does not include the age related failure phase as the summary quote suggested.
Two years may be part of the infant mortality phase for a bridge or a refrigerator; but it sure isn't for an electronic device with basically no moving parts, whose ENTIRE average lifespan is less than ten years.
Can you imagine fast-food with a 25% failure rate? One out of four Big Macs got food poisoning. One out of four Wendy's Chilis got a finger in it.
NOT acceptable (in Trump's America).
Man, I just ate dinner!
But you're exactly correct.
... I suspect the majority of the issues can be traced to the Skylake CPUs in the Surface Pro 4. The issues with that generation CPU in mobile are pretty well known...
Microsoft was the one who put those CPUs into the Surface. I didn't, you didn't and Intel didn't. So you seem to be saying that Microsoft knowingly put a CPU into the Surface that had known reliability issues, without doing any QA testing of those CPUs before using them. Wow, that sounds even worse than I had thought.
Hmmm. Then why don't the Macs that use those CPUs have the same issues?
Hear hear - Although I don't have as much problems with sleep mode as I do with dead wifi or dead camera coming out of sleep mode.
I've been trained to expect that from windows PC manufacturers as MS and the hardware vendors go back and forth. But here, MS produces both the hardware AND the software and you'd think they could at least resolve the problems after 2 years (SP4 user here).
Exactly.
That was always the Windows Fanboi's retort when people would point out that Macs didn't have these problems (at least not chronically across all designs and model-years). "Windows has to support SO MANY different configurations..."
Well now they don't really have that excuse. If they can't get it right when they are controlling the "entire experience", like Apple, then when WILL they get it right?
Is why 3 generations of this device can't properly go to sleep mode. Every other wake is either: device dead or wifi dead.
But of course, you can blame it to testing methodology...
Hmmm. My MacBook Pro never has that problem. And it wakes from sleep in about 1/2 second, too.
Surface mount connectors in particular drive me insane... So easy to pop off... it doesn't seem like it is *that* much cheaper than through-mount.
Learn to solder.
SMT connectors can be plenty robust; although ones that get abused constantly should have at least one through-hole "staking" stub or holding screw.
Yeah, and I'm sure they calibrated for that based on failure rate and historical failures of similar products.
A failure rate of 25% over two years would indicate that even if they only sampled failure rate over the first month, they still got way more than a 1% failure rate, which IMO is an order of magnitude higher than is acceptable in a consumer product over the course of two years. Something is very wrong if CR is coming up with estimates that are that high. That's junk-level hardware by the time you get into a double-digit annual failure rate.
Yeah, it seems ridiculously high. The two years is still in the initial failure phase, I was just pointing out the fallacy of the statement quoted in the summary and what it presumes.
Two years is NOT in the "Infant Mortality" phase, I was taught that those failure occur in under 90 days, and most often in the 0 to 30 day period.
Two years is absolutely in the middle of the "bathtub". And if that 25% figure is even DOUBLE the actual failure rate, there is something seriously wrong with the product's design, components (including any software), and/or the manufacturing/QC methods.
both our predicted 1-2-year failure and actual return rates for Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are significantly lower than 25%.
Back when I was working developing industrial control products, we considered anything above a few percent (like less than 5%) to be "something's wrong here", prompting an evaluation of design, components (and software, if applicable), manufacturing processes, QC processes, etc.
Something as alarming as 25% would have likely caused the entire product to be at least temporarily pulled-from-sale immediately, and more-than-likely, never sold again. In fact, even the most-failure-prone product I was aware of at that place had a failure rate of around 10%, and it was basically cancelled and never mentioned again...
Oh, and BTW, I remind everyone that these products were for use in an INDUSTRIAL environment, which is a LOT harsher than what your average consumer can dish-out. By far.
They way it works in China is first you sign the contract. Then you negotiate. I am not joking either.
I also work in China, and I concur with this. It is difficult to enforce contracts, so a written agreement doesn't mean much in practice. Personal relationships and Guanxi are much more important. Start with small deals and work up as you build the relationship. If you aren't sure, then use an escrow service so neither party can screw the other.
Wow! How utterly.... FOREIGN!!! ;-)